Episode 109: Yasujirō Ozu's Noriko Trilogy

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Sowash. [00:00:22] Speaker C: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:00:23] Speaker B: And Odd. Odd Trilogies. We take a trio of films, whether tied by cast and crew, thematic elements, or just numerical order, and we discuss the good, the bad, and the weird surrounding them. And today we are doing Yasujiro Ozu's Nordico Trilogy. This is definitely different from what we just covered. We have decided to kind of fill this gap where, you know, spoiler alert, we are going to talk about conjuring four, like, after this trilogy. And, you know, we have all these different, you know, new releases with, like, Superman and Fantastic Four in July. We thought, you know, if we had a gap where we kind of didn't have anything that we were, like, really sparking joy on in terms of what it was tied to, with, like, things being released, we thought it'd be the perfect time to just cover trilogies that have been on our list for a while that we thought would be really fun. That was Katsi last two weeks ago. And now we're doing Noriko, which is an interesting trilogy because it's a trilogy by Japanese director Yasujiro ozu, which covers 1949's late spring. 1951's Early Summer in 1953 is probably the most prolific film of the three. Tokyo story. [00:01:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:01:31] Speaker B: All starring Setsuko Hara and Shishu Ryu in different roles. [00:01:36] Speaker C: Hara always playing a character named Noriko. [00:01:40] Speaker B: Yes. Which is why it's. Hence the Noriko Trilogy. While she's not playing the same Noriko in each three of these films, she is playing basically a late twenties, single, fairly independent Japanese woman in post World War II Japan. [00:01:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:01:57] Speaker B: And all three, it's fascinating because when you hear that, you go, well, I shouldn't be skeptical this early, and that's fine. But, like, when you hear something like that, you're like, how do you make three different films, Right. Where the lead is similarly kind of the same person? And what's fascinating is, I think what makes these work so much is that Ozu, as a director as well as the writers surrounding it, find a way to just do little tweaks with each one of these films in a way that makes them stand out. Even if the cinematography is very similar. You have very. You have actors who, like, besides Ryu and Hara are in all three of these movies, and you basically have a lot of the same themes that you will cover in this first film in the other two movies, but with a different angle. I think it's fun to just kind of talk about a trilogy that really shouldn't be. You would think, on paper, as interesting from entry to entry for being so straightforward. Yeah, but. [00:02:56] Speaker C: And dealing with very similar subject matter. [00:02:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:59] Speaker C: All three of these, like, you could almost see a world where all three of these is like, a slightly different interpretation of kind of the same story. [00:03:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:09] Speaker C: Or at least the same idea for a story. So it's a unique. Certainly a unique trilogy in that way, in that, like, it's the same director and mostly the same actors doing kind of the same thing, at least on. [00:03:25] Speaker B: Paper, three different times and sometimes not. Which one of these films actually changes the dynamic in a way that I even. I was not expecting that middle film in with Early Summer. But, yeah, going into the first film, little backstory. I mean, yester Uzo at this point, has been a director for many decades. [00:03:50] Speaker C: Have you seen any Ozu movies? [00:03:52] Speaker B: I haven't. [00:03:53] Speaker C: Outside of these three, the only other Early Summer was. Or, sorry, late Spring. I'm gonna get these mixed up at certain points. Because he made, like, seven other movies that are named after seasons. [00:04:06] Speaker B: Yes. One of them's called, I believe, Early Autumn. [00:04:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:09] Speaker C: And then there's, like, an Autumn Afternoon. [00:04:11] Speaker B: Yes. [00:04:12] Speaker C: I think Late Summer somewhere in there. [00:04:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:15] Speaker C: He's. [00:04:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:16] Speaker C: Lots of seasonal films, but I have not. Other than these. I had not seen any Ozu movies before. I think similar to his, kind of, like, big ones that I'd had on my watch list for a long time. Tokyo Story, Ugetsu, and I think it's the Life of Oharu. Both Ugetsu and Oharu are like period films. They're feudal. [00:04:46] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:48] Speaker C: Or medieval Japan, I guess is the proper term. And I'd long been kind of eyeing those and never. Just never pulled the trigger on them. And so I was glad when you suggested we do this trilogy, because I was like, this would be a good. Good primer. Yeah. [00:05:04] Speaker B: Because I think. Yeah. With Ozu, I think the one thing we kind of had the comparison of was the Tokyo story of it all, where it's like, we had both heard about Tokyo Story in passing. We both have. If you haven't listened to the pod, if this is your first ever episode, thank you for listening. I'm glad you're here. But we do have an interest in international cinema, particularly with Japanese cinema. We have, like, kind of gravitated towards in the past. And this is not our last foray into Japanese cinema this year, but ultimately, I think it was. Yeah. It's. You know, you. You get to a certain point Especially when you're trying to catch up on not only just the history of film, but the history of film in other countries that like, for something like Japan, where it's like we both have not seen all of Kurosawa's work and we love the Kurosawa that we watch, but at the same time you don't want to just watch Kurosawa when you're looking at, especially with Japanese cinema, a period Japanese cinema where it's like he's. You have like directors at the time doing very contemporary work. Like immediately. Again, these three films are talking about families right after World War II, as the films are taking place, like films take place after World War II and the films are coming out. [00:06:15] Speaker C: Contemporary war Japan. [00:06:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:19] Speaker B: And it's also just like fascinating to watch Ozu just because it's always interesting to watch another directors take on the era in terms of just like what he is fascinated with the story and characters that really gravitate towards his narratives as well as just the cinematography, the blocking, as well as the direction of it all. Because there's very different ideas in terms of how Ozu directs and shoots and edits versus a Kurosawa film. And it's also a lot of. It also is the fact of like genre wise, like all three of these movies are slice of life, slow burn, low stakes drama. Like they're all family drama films. [00:07:03] Speaker C: That is kind of what I gather is a lot of Ozu's forte. I mean that's what he's most interested in as a storyteller. And I do want to amend. I misspoke earlier. Oharu and Ugetsu are not Ozu, they're Mizuguchi films. I recently watched a music Gucci film in the midst of these and. [00:07:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:07:24] Speaker B: So anyway, when you mix a Mizuguchi. [00:07:26] Speaker C: You do an Ozu, you just can't do it. It's oil and water. [00:07:28] Speaker B: You can. It's just. [00:07:30] Speaker C: You're just gonna make that slippery slope. [00:07:33] Speaker B: No, but it is like, I mean Ozu was born in 1903. He passes away in 1963. His final film, I believe comes out in 63 before he passes away and has has a career before he makes these three films. But interesting enough from late spring onwards with his collaborate collaboration with Hara and also Ryu to an extent. This is the start of a part of his career that most people consider kind of like a, like his crowning achievement. The start of like some of his most iconic work comes from 49 up until his passing in 63 and six of the films he does in that time frame are with Hara. [00:08:14] Speaker C: Oh, okay. [00:08:15] Speaker B: Because we. We are talking about the three where she plays Noriko, but there are three other films where. Where she is a prominent part, but she does not play that character or I don't even think that version of the character. I think there's more dynamic to that. She's also. I didn't even realize until last night. She's also in a lot of Kurosawa's early work. She's in the Idiot, which is a Dostoevsky adaptation, which has Mifune. So just Hara and Mifune in a three and a half hour film. I mean, it's Dostoevsky. I don't know what to tell you, but yeah, and Hara too. I haven't told Andy this is the first time he's hearing this on the pod. But like, Hara is born in 22. 1920. 1922. She starts acting in 1933 when she is 15. 14. 15. She did. And this is again, this is me counting off of IMDb. This is not me going into IMDb trivia and just kind of assuming that was true. I kind of was curious enough in the span between 35 and 49, how many films she had done. If I'm correct, in what I counted, andy, she did 70 films between 35 and 49. 14 years. [00:09:27] Speaker C: Starting at age 15. [00:09:28] Speaker B: Yes, from like age 14. 15 to age 28. 29. [00:09:32] Speaker C: Oh my God. [00:09:33] Speaker B: And by the time she finishes, which she. She retires from acting the year Ozu dies, we don't know if it has anything to tie to it, but she. Her last film, I believe, is 63. [00:09:43] Speaker A: Okay. [00:09:44] Speaker B: And after 63, she has apparently been in 100 plus films. After 63, from 60, like, with her final film, she is. She is. She has hit like triple ditches, I think. So, like, and after that, she. You think, oh, she must have unfortunately passed away then at a young age. She lives until she's like 95. She dies in 2015. She. And, and I think she has said in interviews that like, really in the most plain way possible, she did that a lot of acting, mainly for supporting her family and not even like just supporting family members and just like, it just kind of worked in a way. And so the three of them with like, you know, with Hara and Ozu, I think the most straightforward, I think is Ryu, where Chishu Ryu is basically, he's an actor until his final day, which is like in 93. His last film is 92. He's in a bunch of movies Too. And also with Ozu as well. And it's funny, too, because in two of these movies, Ryu plays Hara's father. [00:10:53] Speaker C: He plays. [00:10:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:54] Speaker C: Kind of a patriarch. [00:10:56] Speaker B: Yes. [00:10:56] Speaker C: An older father and grandfather. And he's all gray, looks like an old man. When I saw Late Spring, I was like, oh, that guy must be in his 50s. [00:11:12] Speaker B: He must have been born in the late 1800s. [00:11:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:16] Speaker B: No, no, he's 15 years older. [00:11:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:20] Speaker C: I think he's like early mid-40s in. In late spring. [00:11:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Because I think it's 19. I think he's born in 1904 or 1905. And then she's. Then Hara's born in 1920. [00:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:32] Speaker B: So there's like a 50, at least a 15 year gap. And it's so funny because I was the same way in Late Spring. I gotta say, some of the best old age makeup I've ever seen. [00:11:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:40] Speaker C: He looks. Yeah, he has such a. I didn't even question it. [00:11:44] Speaker B: He has such old eyes, like, very, like, old soul kind of energy that, like in the first film, when he basically is like, they're aging him up hardcore. [00:11:54] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:55] Speaker B: He looks phenomenal. He looks great in that part. And it's also just. Yeah, it's going. And now we can go into the movies. It's just like with Late Spring being the first film that these three do together. [00:12:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:12] Speaker B: Like, it is kind of insane just how. Like, I don't fully know yet. I don't. Maybe I'll know by the time I put this episode out. So I'm kind of. This might be my favorite one, I think. [00:12:26] Speaker C: I think in the same thing. [00:12:28] Speaker B: And that's not even to say the other two are bad. Like, really. [00:12:30] Speaker C: I think three of these movies, I think are good. [00:12:32] Speaker B: I think they're all the same level for me on different ways. But, like, for some reason, with Late Spring, even though I was expecting Tokyo Story to be the one that was gonna. [00:12:41] Speaker C: That's the one that's the most known. It's, you know, got an insane letterbox. [00:12:45] Speaker B: Score, you know, and it's one of those things where it's like, you know, go into Late Spring. It's like it's 49. They have two more collaborations after this, the three of them. So clearly, if there's gonna be some kinks worked out in this that is gonna get better as they go on. And to be honest, like, there's no kinks. [00:13:02] Speaker C: Yeah, it's the. [00:13:03] Speaker B: The energy. What's so fascinating about, like, the family dynamic in the first film is that the film Is basically the whole premise is, of course, it's post World War II. It is an old accountant, if I remember correctly. Is that. [00:13:15] Speaker C: Is it Ryu, Accountant, like, retired? [00:13:20] Speaker B: He's retired. Yeah, but he's retired. He lives with his daughter Noriko, who's in her late 20s, played by Hara. And it's just the two of them, and they're like, happily. They live happily together. Like, there's no. There's a fun banter. She goes. She does the cooking. She goes and does groceries. He helps with this and that. And ultimately, what becomes the conversation. [00:13:41] Speaker C: Oh, he's a professor. He's a college professor. [00:13:44] Speaker B: Gosh. [00:13:45] Speaker C: He is, yeah. At the beginning of the movie, she runs into his colleague. He was also another professor. [00:13:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:13:51] Speaker B: And it gets to a point where, like, they have to have this discussion of, you know, at the time with the big thing that. A big thing about all three of these films is the conversation about generation gap. Generational gaps. [00:14:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:06] Speaker B: About how generations see home life, what they strive for, what's considered successful, what's considered, you know, what makes you happy versus what you should do. But of course, the biggest thing, especially with having, you know, in the first film, having a daughter, is the conversation of will she ever get married? [00:14:29] Speaker C: Right. Because she's 28 years old. [00:14:31] Speaker B: She's 28. And then I guess over the hill in the 40s, that is considered way too old to not have a suitor. [00:14:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:40] Speaker C: Which, spoiler alert, is kind of her plight in all three of these movies is that she's 28 and doesn't have. Not. Not. Yeah, it's a plight for her, but everybody else use it as an issue that needs addressed. And so that's kind of what she's dealing with. [00:14:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because. Yeah, that is the baseline, but how it affects the people around them is where it becomes the most, like, unique and interesting about that. Because at least in the first film, it becomes the thing of, like, Noriko clearly is thinking about that as well, but not in a sense that she is worried about not getting married. She's worried, clearly, about other people thinking about her. About that. About her constantly. [00:15:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:20] Speaker B: Because basically of the small cast in the first film. Because the first film has the smallest cast. [00:15:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:27] Speaker B: I think out of the three. [00:15:27] Speaker C: I mean, like, you could. [00:15:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:29] Speaker C: I mean, main characters, wise, it's pretty much just her and her dad and, like, her friend. [00:15:35] Speaker B: Yeah. You get like, one or two other people. Like, there's one woman who I believe comes back in Tokyo Story as well as early Summer. And then, of course, yeah, there's the Professor. There's like, this and that. [00:15:47] Speaker C: But it's like. It's really. I mean, it's really. Most of the movie you spend, like, in their house. Just the two of them. [00:15:53] Speaker B: Yeah. And again, this is. One of the things that I love about movies is, especially with an art form, is that it really can just knock you back into place when you think that, like, when you. When you're. When you. Let me put it this way, the last two films I saw before I watched Late Spring was Weapons and High and Low. Those are two vastly different types of films. [00:16:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:21] Speaker B: And they're also two very intense. They're also thrillers to an extent and also are very much at times very high stakes. [00:16:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:31] Speaker B: In a sense of. It could be life or death. And I'm gonna put it this way. Late Spring does not have that late spring. Honestly, there's. At one point I thought something bad was going to happen, and it couldn't have been farther from the truth. It literally, like, the most normal shit happened. And I was like, well, I guess I should really just stop thinking that, you know, worst case scenario is going to happen some point in this movie to really kick it off. Like, really. The drama that comes out of this, thankfully, is the fact that, like, you know, it's about miscommunication. It's about expectation. [00:17:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:13] Speaker B: And also just being honest. Like. [00:17:16] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:17] Speaker B: The thing that, like, really is the big drop, dramatic core of this movie is just, you know, the truth is that, like, both, you know, Noriko and her father are pretty content with their current lives. They don't really need to change anything. [00:17:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:33] Speaker B: But the thing is, is that while Noriko is, again, even though she's constantly talked about, like, she's in her 70s, she's late 20s, she's not thinking about the future as much. Her father is. And there is this underlying. It's constantly there, especially with Har's performance and with both of their performances specifically. But, like, the constant thing of the fact that, like, it was never just the two of them. There was also a mother involved and she has passed away. And there's this hole there that, like, you know, I think both of them are trying to fill for one another in a sense of just trying to be there for each other. But while Noriko is willing to just keep doing everything the way that it's been because it's felt really good and felt like, you know, it's. I feel like I can. I'm living a. I'm Living a full life in my head. Her father, on the other hand, doesn't believe that and wants more for her and leads to, like, a conversation ultimately halfway through the movie that like. Like, genuinely. You can just automatically like, rocks her core in terms of like, almost an ultimatum that she never wanted to hear. [00:18:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:40] Speaker B: And is. In that sense, the ultimatum ends up being spoiler alert. Like, fake. Like, he basically. Ultimately, the ultimatum ends up being either you find someone to get married to, or we find someone to marry you to get you to get married to. Or I have to get remarried. [00:18:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:58] Speaker C: And yeah. [00:18:59] Speaker B: Because I don't want you to be worried about me not being taken care of. Because I think there is a part of Noriko who's worried that once she leaves, who is going to be taking care of her elderly, retired father. And I gotta say, too, because this is a constant thing with all three of these movies. It's just like Hara and Ryu's acting is fucking phenomenal in a way where it's like Ozu as a director is constantly another thing that was really a cult. Like a. Just an absolute shock after, like, the last few films I've watched is having just like lockdown cameras, like, just letting scenes run and then just like, you know, not doing a lot of camera movements. A lot of, you know, shot, shot, reverse shot. A lot of just like, you know, characters looking right at the camera because they're talking to the other person that's looking right at the other camera. [00:19:53] Speaker C: So he can come back, like, once or twice. In each of these movies, when there's an exchange between two characters, he plants the camera right in between them and basically has them look through the camera at each other. And it's striking. I'm glad you mentioned the camera. And I'm actually kicking myself over here because I don't do that. [00:20:12] Speaker B: You'll shake the table. We can't shake the table. [00:20:17] Speaker C: I got a new notebook recently and took my notes for this trilogy in that notebook and then accidentally grabbed my weekly planner on my way over here instead of my movie notes notebook. [00:20:33] Speaker B: That's crazy too, because planner said, please pick up movie notes notebook before the episode. [00:20:38] Speaker C: Swap me. [00:20:40] Speaker B: Swap me. [00:20:41] Speaker C: But. So, yeah, I don't. I don't have my notes with me, but I. I kind of. I knew going into these movies something about Ozu that he really likes shots like through corridors and doorways and windows. He's all about, like, actually shout out to director Koganata, because before he was a filmmaker, he was a Criterion video essayist. And he did A video essay on Ozu's passageways, as he called it. And just, you know, showed off a bunch of Ozu's cinematography where he's filming people through doorways and windows and things like that. And so I knew that was kind of a thing that. That Ozu loved to do. And so when I started these movies, I kept a running tally of how many, like, doorway or hallway shots there were. [00:21:38] Speaker B: Rad. Okay. [00:21:40] Speaker C: Which. And I. I started out counting every time, and I realized I was gonna like, fill up my notebook if I did that. So I just counted every unique shot. Like, every shot. [00:21:53] Speaker A: Cuz he. [00:21:54] Speaker C: Because that's another thing OJ does in all three of these movies, and I assume he does in a lot of his other movies, is he repeats shots a lot. [00:22:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:03] Speaker C: He uses the same camera placement over and over, which might sound boring on paper, but I actually love it, especially for these, this kind of movie, because it really, like, plants you in that space and, like, makes you feel part of the family. Yeah. And every time you return to a location or a room or part of the house that you've been to before, you're seeing it from the same angle every time. And so you're like, you know, I am a fixture in this house. I always see this room from the same angle. It's kind of like the same effect that like three wall multi camera sitcoms do. It's like you only ever see the room from one angle, so you're getting a really good sense of where everything is and how the characters move through it. And I mean, just the stillness of Ozu's cinematography just brings the movement of the characters to life. I mean, every time somebody gets up and moves to a different part of the room, it feels like monumental. [00:23:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Because you're not following them with the camera. Like, the camera's not behind them. [00:23:10] Speaker C: You're following them across the frame. [00:23:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And then the frame will just cut. And then you're just in that upstairs room, or you're outside or you're in the kitchen. [00:23:19] Speaker C: It's almost like you're like a light waiting to be turned on. And as the character walks into the room, they flip the switch and you turn on and you can see them. [00:23:28] Speaker B: Also feels like a play. [00:23:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:29] Speaker B: It has that energy of like watching something on a stage. And almost like you can see this is the port. Yeah. Where the. That's when they put the stage light on. And now it's like. Yeah, you turn on light in this area. [00:23:38] Speaker C: And so I don't remember my exact counts of hallway passageway shots, but enough. [00:23:44] Speaker B: That you were worried you're going to fill up your entire. [00:23:47] Speaker C: So in terms of unique shots, I remember it was something like 16 distinct shots in early summer or. Sorry, in late spring, 25 or 30 in early summer, and like, 30 or 35 in Tokyo story. [00:24:05] Speaker B: It makes sense. Yeah. [00:24:06] Speaker C: Just distinct shots through doorway. Like, almost, you know, it was like 60% of the shots were shot, like, through a door frame. Because he's, like. He's always using the house or the building or the space that they're in to frame the characters, Whether it's a doorway or there's a chair in this, you know, foreground or whatever. And you're looking past the chair because I think it's really keeping you in that space. [00:24:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Trying to, I think, at a certain point, give you, I think, the quickest way to have that idea of, like, when you. When you're at a. When you're at home, not even a house where, like, you know what the layout is. You. At a certain point when you watch this movie, when you watch all three of these movies, I'd say probably took you a story the least amount because most locations. Yeah, most locations, it feels like a blockbuster in comparison to, like, how much other places you go to in these first two films. But, like, by the time late spring ends, it's like your brain has already kind of filled in that, like, when they go upstairs, it is going to cut to this same shot of the upstairs and this table and the seats and the drawer in the back. Right in the closet in the far end. And then sometimes you might get a shot of upstairs, but you're not following anyone upstairs. You're following that person as they leave the frame and come back in. Or, like, you had a certain point, especially in late spring, for sure, because there's only two people there. They are constantly moving around their space. You start to just really get to know the lay of the land and the architecture of their space because it's their home. [00:25:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:39] Speaker B: And it's. And it clearly is this energy of, like, you. Ozu wants you to kind of get acclimated to this house, to feel more like a home. So it's even more impactful when something changes that home. [00:25:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:51] Speaker B: In a way that is like, you know, is, you know, necessary in a sense, and also is like, you know, is. That's. Life is the constant change, but also is somber and very melancholic at times. And like, I think I. One of the reasons why I think late spring hits me more than the other two films is. Even though I. I think those two films are great. I think it's because of the ending, because of the final shot you get in that house you've spent so much time in is just a striking, simple, like, powerful shot of just a man realizing that, like, you know, this is what is best for his daughter. But that doesn't make him any less sad. Yeah, it's just. [00:26:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:38] Speaker B: Like a loneliness that is understandable and valid, but still lonely. Yeah, I really appreciated that. [00:26:47] Speaker C: But it. Yeah, it's also like. I think Shukichi. I think that's his name. I think that's Chishoryu's name. [00:26:57] Speaker B: And I think Tsukichi. [00:26:58] Speaker C: Yeah, his. He's pretty clear without ever saying as much that, like, you kind of get the impression throughout the film that, like, yes, obviously there's a hole in his life without his late wife. And, you know, he is lonely, he's sad. He misses her every day. He feels lucky to have Noriko around. But it's also, you know, one of those things when you lose somebody that. Who's that much a part of you where it's like, the sadness is almost. You grow to love the sadness that you have for them because that is your love for them. And that is, you know, that's kind of the vibe of that final shot of him alone in the house is like, he got what he wanted. [00:27:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:48] Speaker C: He's not. You know, he's like, I wanted my daughter to be happy and to find a new place in life and a new, you know, take that next step. And I. I just love that he. He, like, cons her with the, hey, I'm gonna remarry. Because he knows it'll piss her off. [00:28:06] Speaker B: And not even just get remarried, but remarried to a younger woman. [00:28:10] Speaker C: Right, Right. [00:28:11] Speaker B: Because that's another thing, too, is like, the thing that is so fun about Noriko as a character, especially in these first few films. I think it gets lesser than with each film, but I think it. They. She becomes more complex in different ways than the other films. But, like, in this first movie, I can see. I can imagine at the time, is considered kind of bold, maybe even a little bit provocative, just how bold she is in conversations about things. Like one of the biggest parts. One of the biggest parts in the early part of late spring that I think really gets an idea of how Noriko not only sees other people, but also sees how she feels about her relationship with her own family, especially with her mother, is the fact that, like, one of her father's professors that I referenced earlier has gotten remarried. [00:28:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:58] Speaker B: He divorced his wife because he wasn't happy. They weren't happy. And then got remarried to a younger woman. [00:29:04] Speaker C: And she gives him a hard time. [00:29:06] Speaker B: She calls him unclean. [00:29:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:08] Speaker C: Dirty. [00:29:09] Speaker B: She goes like, that's such a dirty. Like, basically a dirty old man. And it's like, it was so funny. [00:29:14] Speaker C: Just gets a kick out of it. [00:29:15] Speaker B: He goes, oh, my God, you're calling me just like, wow, you're going to be a dirty old man. And then literally they go back to her house and she's like, she got you. You won't believe it. Your daughter keeps calling me a dirty old. And then has this great moment of very human where. Like a very human moment where when she meets his wife, he. She feels bad because they're actually a good pairing together. [00:29:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:36] Speaker B: But I think that re. Interaction at the time, I was kind of wondering, like, this interaction is really speaking to me, and I'm curious as to why. And I think a lot of it is because she is thinking, if my father did the same thing, I would. [00:29:48] Speaker C: Think the same way. [00:29:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:50] Speaker B: So when. Because another thing too, is a lot of Hara and Ryu's acting through all three of these films is acting through smiles. It's very fast, very fascinating thing that is like, they are clearly acting through, you know, very social norms of trying to keep things very civil, very sweet, very nice. Even if the conversation is, you know, critiquing themselves or critiquing how they live their lives or critiquing how this is happening in their family and how they should feel and whatnot. I mean, there's like. There's moments where, like in, like in Tokyo's Story, like, Ryu's character basically says, like, you should feel bad about your kids not doing well enough. And he, like, just his biggest smile on his face, like. Well, expectations of the parents. It's kind of hard to handle with Hara and Ryu. It makes. Since they're constantly trying to keep this, like, kind of a pseudo Persona of, like, everything is fine. We're having a fun conversation. It's when in this movie, he brings up the I will get remarried and she drops that smile. [00:30:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:54] Speaker B: Which is just. It's like watching a car hit a brick wall. [00:30:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:59] Speaker C: It's almost like it's the first time in the movie that you've seen her, like, show any sort of negative expression. And I mean, that's the other thing too, is not only are they, you know, putting on these smiles throughout, you know, to conform kind of to the politeness and the manners of the social structures of the time. But also Hara in particular. I mean, she just has a beautiful smile. Like she is sunny. [00:31:31] Speaker B: Oh my God. [00:31:32] Speaker C: You look at her and she smiles at you and you're like, wow. I. Yeah. No wonder all these guys are like, you know, trying to flirt with her. [00:31:40] Speaker B: It's why it's so funny every time they go. She's gonna be so hard for her to find a husband. [00:31:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:44] Speaker B: It's like this woman. This woman could probably be in her 50s if she still has that smile on this person. She's gonna be fine. [00:31:51] Speaker C: Yeah, lovely smile. She's like beaming throughout the movie. It's not just like she's smiling to be nice. She looks like she is. [00:31:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:59] Speaker C: And she's happy as can be. Which she is very happy. [00:32:02] Speaker B: But yeah, you know, but is very well aware that there is some uncomfortability when her friends as well as her parents, like her father's friends, are constantly bringing up the fact that, yeah, she shouldn't be single. She needs to find somebody else. Why don't you find somebody else? And I mean, there's a reason why horror is considered one of the best actresses of just Japanese cinema in general. There's just something about her. I was telling Aunt Radiant. They have very radiant. But also just like the way the radiance she can control how much the radiance can cloud from the character's insecurities or vulnerabilities in a way that is like in the other two films she does the same thing, but I feel like there is more dynamic in different angles because of that. Where I think there's like. In this film there is like. She literally has no shame being single. She really enjoys it. And all the uncomfortability and the insecurity comes from other people's perception of her and why she's being single and not believing. Yeah, it's because she just likes being single. [00:33:12] Speaker C: Right. [00:33:12] Speaker B: Because she does. And I think ultimately when she has to get married or she feels like she's being pushed in a corner to get married, at least to this moment where it's like she knows she could do it. Like she genuinely basically says, like, I. I know I can do this. [00:33:26] Speaker C: It's just like literally has no interest this. [00:33:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like one of the best moments. I think all three of these movies have like a ideal moment with Hara. But like the ideal moment in my head for Hara is in fact when they go on like their last trip together before she gets married and she Basically says, like, this is all I've ever wanted. Like, I've just wanted to go on trips with you. I just wanted to live life with you. Like, literally, I don't need anyone else. And there's not even, like, there's nothing. There's no weird undertones or anything around it. It is entirely like, I just want to be with my father and live a happy life with my dad. [00:34:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:04] Speaker B: And there's also in that scene, the first time Ryu drops his smile in the entire movie, almost, where he's like, that is selfish. I understand that selfish feeling. I get that. But I'm telling you, that is not what you need. And leads to that interesting conversation where it's like, there is. I think what shows how much these movies have still stood the test of time. Like, you know, 80 years on, almost, or at least for this movie, is the fact that it's like, it isn't this. The sexism that is in this time is not. It is understood. Like, it makes sense for the time where it's like, it is not them saying that it literally is nothing but, like, women are worse than men or men can do this more. It literally is just like, well, when I was growing up, a woman was born. Like, a woman was married by this point. [00:34:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:56] Speaker B: And like I said, it's weird that you're not like, yeah, yeah, you can. [00:35:01] Speaker C: Obviously those things are coded in, you know, systemic misogyny and things like that. But it's not. [00:35:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:10] Speaker C: I mean, it's not like her father is saying, well, you're worthless. [00:35:13] Speaker B: No. Yes. [00:35:13] Speaker C: You find a man. [00:35:14] Speaker B: It's more weaker films interpretation. [00:35:16] Speaker C: Yeah. It's more like that is his understanding of life. [00:35:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:23] Speaker C: Is, you know, a woman grows up, she marries a husband, she's a good wife, he treats her well, and they have a happy life together. [00:35:31] Speaker B: It's also. [00:35:32] Speaker C: And it's, you know, that's a similar kind of logic that they have, you know, that we kind of get more into in the other two movies towards, like, just their children's achievements. You know, it's like, you should grow up and you should be the best in your field and you should, you know, be a. Be a senior executive by the time you're 30 or whatever, you know, like. [00:35:53] Speaker B: And it'll probably be under your roof. [00:35:55] Speaker C: Those are firm expectations at that point in this culture and, you know, for decades to come, obviously, as well. But, yeah, it's an interesting dynamic in this movie because I think the film is like. I think Ozu also resolutely understands. [00:36:20] Speaker A: You. [00:36:20] Speaker C: Know, Noriko probably could and would be happy to live, you know, the rest of her life single, you know, and she's not. It's not written in a way that's like, oh, well, once she conce. Once she agrees to get married, now we know she's gonna be happy. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Yes. [00:36:41] Speaker C: She wants. You know, she wants to please her father, and her father wants her to be happy. And they both want each other to be happy. And so they do the things to please each other and to give each other the best life that they can. [00:36:54] Speaker B: Well, I think. Yeah. And it has. The conversation that I think is brought up in all three of these films with Tokyo Story, I think being the most different is the conversation of, in a sense, getting married, especially in this time period, and I think even today, I think has some similarities to. It is like getting married to an extent, has an idea of death and rebirth where it's like there's this fear, I think, in Noriko's head of just like, when she gets married, her being her dot, like her father's daughter is kind of dead, in a sense. [00:37:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:28] Speaker B: Because it becomes less so that and more. She is now her husband's wife. [00:37:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:34] Speaker C: Spouse starting life with a new family. [00:37:37] Speaker B: And it happens in early summer. There's a conversation like that as well. And then even in Tokyo Story, which we'll get to, that conversation is even more unique because of the trauma and the sadness that happened prior in. Prior. Before the film takes place that Noriko has had to deal with and had that conversation and the people that she has that conversation with. It's, I think, makes it even harder. [00:38:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:00] Speaker B: But I think it's this interesting conversation that, like, I think I've. I've not seen a film that really, like, reminds me of, like, I had a conversation years ago when I was, like, I think, in college or just getting, like, in. In the midst. Maybe I was like a sophomore or junior, and I think I was just with my grandfather. And at one point he just was like. He said, you have to understand that, like, at a certain point, my unit was, you know, my sisters, my mom, my dad. But then I met your grandma. And then my unit became your grandma and I, and then, you know, that became your mom and your aunt. And then they got older, and then they left our unit. That's just life. That is the goal of life, in some senses, is to just. You never lose these people. But your unit and your people that are in your circle constantly change as life goes on. And I've always. I don't think I've ever seen a film capture that idea as well as, like, recently as this, where it's like, there is this energy of like, there's a sadness, as if something is dying, but it's really the only thing that's dying is a metaphor. It's like a. It's a figurative death. [00:39:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:10] Speaker B: Of just like, you know, you're growing up, things are changing in a way. [00:39:13] Speaker C: And, well, ultimately, if you're a parent, you want that to die because you. You can see the even better life, the new life that will come for your children afterward. [00:39:25] Speaker B: Well, it's also a custom thing too, where it's like. There's even a conversation in one of these other films where it's like. There's also this thing where, you know, if her father was dead, but her mother was alive, like, if she got remarried, if she got married, they could technically bring her mother under their roof. Like, that is a social custom that is accepted, but it's weird in a sense, if it was her father, because in Tokyo Story, they have that conversation too, where it's like, you know, there's this idea of like, you know, if this person dies or this person stays alive, usually that person just has to live alone. But if vice versa, they can live with, you know, their. Their kin. They're like their. Their children, if need be and. [00:40:07] Speaker C: Right. [00:40:08] Speaker B: I think that has that energy too, of just being like, you know, even again, Ryu at this point in his, like, he is 45. [00:40:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:17] Speaker B: Looks way older in this movie, in my opinion. I thought he was like mid to late 60s. [00:40:22] Speaker C: I assumed he was playing his own age. [00:40:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought so too. And it's funny too, because the father in Early Summer is literally like two years younger or older than Ryu. It's also the same. A lot of guys. A lot of guys in these three films that just really look good in old age makeup. Yeah. But I mean, late spring just has this simplicity and I think really sets the foundation for like, what, you know, the best of. What considered people consider the best of Ozu is which is just like these slice of life. Very simple, but not poorly made. Like, very simple, straightforward films that are really introspective. [00:41:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:06] Speaker B: And really have an interesting conversation with, you know, family dynamics, generational gaps in some stakes with later films, like a. Like, almost like a communal trauma as a society. Because, again, it is. It is families that are living in Japan post World War II. [00:41:27] Speaker C: Right. [00:41:28] Speaker B: So it's like this conversation. Conversation that, like, you know, all these things really do affect family, marriage. Life and. [00:41:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:37] Speaker B: How do you kind of. How do you ebb and flow through that in a way that makes sense to you as well as just make sense for your family? That's, that's an interesting dynamic as well, is like, you don't get it a lot in late spring, but in early summer, one of the biggest changes that I think makes the film stand out immediately more than late spring does. Because like in late spring you go, oh, it's just, you know, Noriko and her father. Cool. In early summer, it's a whole family. Like it's a huge extended family under one roof in a house that looks pretty much the same size. It's not the same. It's not the same house in late spring. Yeah, but it looks like the same size. [00:42:19] Speaker C: Right. [00:42:20] Speaker B: And you have, you have a father, a mother, both the older father. Older mother, yeah. You have Ryu playing the older brother in this. Noriko, his wife, their two kids, and then Noriko. Yeah, that's seven people compared to. [00:42:40] Speaker C: Isn't there a sister too? [00:42:43] Speaker B: I don't. [00:42:43] Speaker C: Noriko's sister. I. I don't know. [00:42:46] Speaker B: I believe there's a friend that comes in and out, but I don't know. She lives there because. Yeah, because it's the, the sister in law is the one that lives at the house. [00:42:58] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah. [00:43:00] Speaker B: But in, in early summer there's this dynamic where like now the conversation about Noriko and whether she can. She should get married or not or when should she get married. Now is not one, one person, a father trying to contemplate how do this, how do we make this work? [00:43:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:19] Speaker B: It is now an entire family scheming this in a sense. Interesting. And while I'd say that early summer probably has the slowest start of the three. [00:43:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:30] Speaker B: It is definitely like again, these three films are the. The shortest is Late Spring and that is an hour 50. So all three of these films are like two hours with Tokyo Story being like 2:15, 213. And so like the first hour of, like the first hour of all three of these movies is basically just setting the table, is really giving me these moments to really just live in the world with the family, see the dynamic, hear the history. And in Tokyo Story's case, really get to see the sights, right? [00:44:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:02] Speaker B: Get to see the era and really get to just hang out in Tokyo a little bit and see things here and there. [00:44:08] Speaker C: And with early summer, early summer in particular, I remember thinking like, probably close to an hour in like. I don't know where this is going. [00:44:17] Speaker B: I know. I don't I'm not. [00:44:21] Speaker A: You know, I. [00:44:22] Speaker C: It's really slice of life because now. [00:44:24] Speaker B: That, you know, with late spring, it kind of gives you. It kind of gets you the litmus test of what to expect forward with Ozu's work. Now we're like, okay, how is this not going to be like. How are they not going to do the same kind of twists. Not twist, but, like, kind of like the point of contention that's in the first film. [00:44:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:42] Speaker B: With early. With, like, late spring. And to have the whole plot basically be. The plot is basically. Basically, the family decides, oh, we should probably find a suitor for Noriko. And Noriko has no idea this entire time. [00:44:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:55] Speaker B: Noriko is basically just like, yeah, I'm working as a temp, as a secretary for, I believe, a doctor. [00:45:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:03] Speaker B: And one of her friends is clearly, you know, comes in, hangs out, flirts with the doctor a little bit, and then they just kind of, like, hang out. A lot of Noriko in that first hour is really kind of having the conversation between her single friends and her married friends. There's also an interesting conversation in late spring that I think also plays into early summer where, like, her friend in late spring is a divorce, is a typist. [00:45:28] Speaker C: Oh, she's a divorce. [00:45:30] Speaker B: She's basically like, in late spring, she goes, I mean, what's wrong with getting married? You could just divorce him. Which is, I think, probably 10 years before. You'd have people clutching their pearls hearing someone say it so casually. But, like, it's. I mean, yeah, divorce is a thing. And it is like, in. In early summer, when you have this dynamic between single women and married women, there ends up being this kind of energy of, like, hearing the married women. There's one married woman that says, like, they, like, her husband didn't treat their dog well, so he forced him to eat carrots for, like, a few days. And so they start calling him Mr. Carrot. [00:46:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:04] Speaker B: To fuck with her. And they constantly just, like, mock her, just to, like, have an insight joke. And they're like, there's like, I can't be. I can't hang out with the youngins anymore kind of energy. And they're just hanging out constantly. And then at one point, like, Noriko is like, yeah, this guy seems really cool. And then her family will just perk up and be like, is this the time? Do we jump at this man? And they end up. The family ends up finding, like, this, like, a friend of a friend who's a man in his 40s, I believe. Because another thing Too, I think, which makes, I think Hara stand out at the time, is she's like, her character is, and I think probably in her real life, very interested in, like, actors, English actors or American actors. [00:46:51] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:46:52] Speaker C: In the first film, she talks about wanting to meet a man who looks like Gary Cooper. [00:46:56] Speaker B: Gary Cooper, Yes. [00:46:58] Speaker C: And then he's a major actor in America at that time. [00:47:02] Speaker B: Do they say anything about Cary Grant in Early Summer? They say, like, the guy that they're. [00:47:06] Speaker C: Looking, I think they mentioned Cary kind. [00:47:08] Speaker B: Of looks like Cary Grant from, like, the Face up or something. Like, it's something like, very specific. [00:47:12] Speaker C: The other, the more prominent name drop in this one in Early Summer is Hepburn. [00:47:19] Speaker B: Hepburn. [00:47:19] Speaker C: They refer to one of them looking like Hep Audrey. [00:47:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Because Early Summer also has this undertone, this queer undertone, where this is not a conversation Late Spring. But there's joke here and there about, is Noriko gay? [00:47:34] Speaker C: Sure. [00:47:35] Speaker B: Because she's so content with her single life. Her boss is literally going like, is she a little queer? She's like, does she like women? It's like, oh, my God, this is 51. What the fuck? I was not expecting that conversation in this film. [00:47:52] Speaker C: Well, and interestingly, like, you know, it's fun to see those things, and often they're just kind of like small notes in these movies, because you can kind of feel Ozu pushing against, like, the censorship of the time. Oh, yeah. Because, I mean, in particular, Late Spring, that being in 49, that film was released under the American occupation of Japan. [00:48:19] Speaker B: Yes. [00:48:19] Speaker C: It was after World War II. And there were story changes to Late Spring that the Occupation Censorship committee, like, forced on Oz. [00:48:29] Speaker B: I knew about that. I didn't know which ones were changing. [00:48:33] Speaker C: Noriko's decision to get married, you know, except the arranged marriage at the end of Late Spring was originally a, like, group decision, like a family decision that was kind of placed on her, which makes the American occupation didn't like that because they. They didn't like. They didn't like the Japanese, like, custom of arranged marriage to begin with. They thought it was, you know, I don't know, took away the agency of the inner individual and just didn't, you know, which is cultural. Cultural differences. [00:49:10] Speaker B: But it's also a conversation kind of lightly in this and Tokyo. [00:49:14] Speaker C: They kind of make the younger generation. [00:49:16] Speaker B: Makes fun of arranged marriages. [00:49:18] Speaker C: So they rejected that draft of the script and made Ozu change it to just not making it exclusively Noriko's decision. So it's just interesting like that. And even in. In Early Summer, you. You see things that Are like, huh, I wonder if. Like, I wonder if that had to be pared down. Or, you know, how. How clearly he's kind of trying to push things forward, or not necessarily push things forward specifically, but challenge notions of the time and have conversations that movies probably aren't really having at that time. [00:49:56] Speaker B: Because they're not like. Yeah, because there's no conversation about her sleeping around. [00:50:00] Speaker C: No. [00:50:00] Speaker B: There's no conversation about her being single. You know, seeing a bunch of guys. [00:50:05] Speaker C: Sex is mentioned once in this movie. [00:50:07] Speaker B: Not at all. No, it's not. I don't really think so. And I think it's just like. But it makes it even more interesting. There's almost a subtext of, like. There's. There is kind of a subtext almost, whether it's intentional or not, of just like. It doesn't seem like Noriko is ever into, like, being with a guy. Like, yeah, it's. What? How can we help with that? Like, it's like, this is like, she's just like. She could be like, yeah, that man's attractive. And then it's just like, nothing comes out of that. And it's like, she's just happy to hang out with the girls, hang out with her family, be helpful with her family, because she's basically just, you know, she's kind of the fun aunt to her. Like, you know, nephews. [00:50:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:50:47] Speaker B: Because, like, Ryu in this film, which I would probably argue is like, his weakest role of the three in terms of. In terms of the dynamic between him and Hara, I feel like it's very. It's much weaker than the other two. [00:51:00] Speaker C: He's also just a less significant character in this film. Like, the older brother doesn't have a whole lot to do in the movie besides kind of chide her for not wanting to get married. [00:51:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:14] Speaker C: Kind of harp on that issue. [00:51:15] Speaker B: Like, you basically at one point is like, you should. I should. I should push her to marry this man. No, she's not gonna listen to me. She's too stubborn here. Wife. You do that. [00:51:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:24] Speaker B: And it has that scene where they're like. They're talking about, like, what about this guy? Is he kind of attractive? Is he kind of cool? Yeah, he's. He's attractive. And then she leaves, and then, like, Ryu pokes his head out, and he's like, you need to be a little. [00:51:34] Speaker C: Bit more forward from the other side. [00:51:36] Speaker B: She's like, stop it. [00:51:37] Speaker C: Yeah, go away. [00:51:38] Speaker B: She doesn't even know you're back there. There is that energy, and I think there's like, there's more conversations, too, I think, in early summer that was kind of shocking about. Because you get this in late spring. But I don't think is as in the forefront more so as it is, like, subtextually. But you have more conversations about, like, while they're worried about, you know, what is a woman like Noriko gonna do, as in her late twenties in this kind of era, they're also having conversations about the fact that there are soldiers that were in World War II that have yet to return. [00:52:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:13] Speaker B: And are constantly, you know, they talk about, I think, a neighbor who lost a son and being like, he's. I mean, he's gotta be dead. There's no. It's been seven years. And it's like this conversation of, like, interesting. About, like, you know, still feeling the ramifications of World War II that, like, in the early 50s. And really having that conversation about, like, well, at least, if anything, we're just grateful that, you know, our daughter is safe. [00:52:37] Speaker C: Right. [00:52:38] Speaker B: And also have that conversation, which late spring kind of does too, of, like, talk about Noriko growing up. And, you know, she would have to grow up during World War II and growing up in that era. And I think at one point, I think it's in Tokyo story, but they talk about how the fishing village that the parents live in were outside the blast radius. In a sense, they were not affected by the war, which is. They were thankful that. But the two moments, I think, in early summer that pop up are the missing persons conversation, which they also listen to missing persons radio. And then there's a moment where Ryu comes home and has a loaf of bread. His sons think that it's train tracks because his oldest son has been giving grandma back massages to, like, save up for train tracks. It ends up being bread. He's pissed off at his dad. He picks up the bread and kicks it at him. And Ryu, like, gets kind of in his son's face and just says, like, you don't kick food. [00:53:42] Speaker C: Right. [00:53:42] Speaker B: And in that moment, it is never explicitly said why he reacts that way, but it's very clear the way he acts that way is because. [00:53:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:51] Speaker B: Of war. It's because of how they had to live. [00:53:54] Speaker C: Sources were scouts. [00:53:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:55] Speaker B: It's just like being like, this new generation will not understand what we had to go through to get to like. It's like they will never get that. And it's an interesting dynamic that, like, it's not preachy. It feels very. [00:54:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:09] Speaker B: In line with the fact that if you have children in the late 40s early 50s. And they're going to be in that, like, little shithead phase of, like, the late, you know, in their tens, almost into teenage years. You're going to have to have those moments where you're just going to have to really just be like, they have no fucking clue. Yeah. What this is. [00:54:29] Speaker C: Well, and it's, you know, it's clear, too, like, on the flip side of that, because this is the film. This isn't. Yeah, I think it's this movie where he also. He buys his kids cakes and his wife is like, why'd you buy him cakes? They have perfectly good crackers. [00:54:49] Speaker B: Oh, that's Tokyo Story. Because they buy cakes for their parents. [00:54:53] Speaker C: Oh, okay. [00:54:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:54] Speaker B: Shige, the hairdresser's husband, is like, I bought them cakes. [00:54:57] Speaker C: And she goes, these cakes are too nice. [00:54:59] Speaker B: Why would you waste money? And it's like. But they're so good. Yeah. [00:55:03] Speaker C: Like, they have crackers. They'll be fine. [00:55:05] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like. It is. That is. That is permeating through all three of these films, and it has every right to be. [00:55:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:11] Speaker B: I mean, it's a national tragedy. Yeah, it's a national tragedy that affects every generation after that. Especially when you're thinking about the future, especially thinking about family and generations. And there's also, I think in Tokyo Story, they have conversations about, like, you know, when they run into friends who live in Tok that used to live in the fishing village, talking about, like, moving in their old house and, like, kind of those conversations, too, during the war. And there's just that. That interesting, again, shows how good of a storyteller Ozu is, where it's like, there's just not. There's not like they're sitting down with two people and we're getting shot. Reverse shot of being like, man, the war was bad during 38. Like, it. It's. It is implied. [00:55:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:55] Speaker B: By like, you know, in terms of just, like, keeping each other close, making sure you're looking out for each other, as well as making sure you, you know, you do what you must to keep, you know, keep going forward in some way, shape or form. And it leads to, you know, the family being like. What should happen is since Noriko is the only one not married with the family, she should get married. And the. I think the big dramatic twist or the big dramatic confrontation with the family is that Noriko makes the decision herself. [00:56:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:30] Speaker B: Basically throughout the film, there's a guy named Kenkichi who I believe was a friend of a friend who passed away in the war. [00:56:40] Speaker C: Yeah, well, Kenkichi is the. [00:56:43] Speaker B: Is. Is the friend. [00:56:45] Speaker C: The one that she. Yeah, yeah. [00:56:46] Speaker B: But, like, he talks about a friend, like a mutual friend they both had. I believe it's a mutual friend. I don't think it's her brother, but they basically. It's someone who. [00:56:55] Speaker C: His brother. [00:56:56] Speaker B: Oh, his brother. [00:56:57] Speaker C: His brother, yeah. Who died in the war. [00:56:58] Speaker B: Died in the war, yes. And it's basically, like, him talking about that and, like, they have these. Of all the men, I think, in the film, she seems to have the most. The warmest conversations with him. [00:57:10] Speaker C: Yeah, well, she knows him the best. Like, they're, you know, childhood friends. [00:57:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I think there's also. There's this. There's this. There's not an implication that, like, he's trying to marry her. [00:57:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:21] Speaker B: Like, clearly there is a connection there. There's a chemistry. [00:57:24] Speaker A: The. [00:57:25] Speaker C: That he gives her a gift when they meet for tea, and the gift is from the brother who died, who told him to give it to her. [00:57:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:34] Speaker C: If he didn't come back from war. [00:57:36] Speaker B: And it's like, of the wheat or something. [00:57:38] Speaker C: It's a sheaf of wheat. [00:57:40] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's. She loved. She just, like. It's the biggest smile she makes in the entire movie. And then, of course, that's when her brother shows up and. [00:57:47] Speaker C: Right. [00:57:47] Speaker B: They hang out. But, like, there's this. There's this energy where, like, they just are very nice and very cordial and have a great time together, but there's no implication that one or the other is trying to make anything happen until Kenkichi gets a job outside of. Because they live in Tokyo proper, don't they? [00:58:07] Speaker C: At least close to it, or, like, more Midland, Japan, Central Japan. [00:58:12] Speaker B: Well, they. Kenkichi gets a job out of town, and it's for a few years, but it pays better and it's going to be good for its job. [00:58:19] Speaker C: Well, and it's way out in the boonies. [00:58:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:22] Speaker C: It's like a super rural, remote, tiny town. I mean, Noriko and her friend, like, have a little bit where they, like, you know, she's kind of, like, spitballing about, like, oh, if I married him, I'd become a rural housewife. And then they start talking in a country accent, like, their country. Like, they literally make fun of the accent. That's how remote and rural it is. [00:58:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:48] Speaker B: And I think, you know, Noriko goes over to the house, I believe, to. Not to talk to Kenkichi, but I think just to say goodbye. No, to bring a gift to Kenkichi's mother and Then Kenkichi's mom just talks about the fact that, you know, like, Kinkichi is a widow in the film. He has a daughter. His wife passed away in a way that we have not really discussed, but probably illness, I would imagine. Kenkichi's mother just says, like, you know, this is very selfish to me. Don't get mad at me. Which Hara doesn't have a mean bone in her body, but. So there's always a funny moment in that movie. But it's like when he was, you know, when I was thinking of people he would marry in the future, I always kind of thought, you would be perfect. [00:59:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:35] Speaker B: And there's just this moment, and I think this is the horror moment in this movie for me, where she goes, like, you're not kidding? Like, are you kidding? And she goes, no, I'm not. It's like, don't mess with me. [00:59:46] Speaker C: Don't with me. [00:59:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Because she goes. And this is a line that just pierces my heart in a way that I couldn't. Again, Hara, a woman who just can just smile and have a blast through a whole movie, but then goes, I. I think, and I quote, would you accept a leftover like me? [01:00:04] Speaker C: Right. [01:00:04] Speaker B: And it's just that line already just sees how there is this kind of energy of this version of Nordico and this, like, she would like to get married. [01:00:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:16] Speaker B: But she just hasn't found anyone that really thought was available in a way that she thought she could really mesh with and then find something and find someone that has been there the whole time. But, like, it just never thought it would be feasible. [01:00:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:31] Speaker C: Or never thought about it. [01:00:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:33] Speaker C: Way. [01:00:34] Speaker B: And never thought anyone thought of it. [01:00:36] Speaker C: Now that it's been put in that context, she's like, oh, you know, that would work. [01:00:40] Speaker B: And then she says yes. And then the whole, like, the family conflict ends up being. You said yes to a guy who's. [01:00:48] Speaker C: Gonna go live in the middle of. [01:00:49] Speaker B: Nowhere, who's a widow with a child. [01:00:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:52] Speaker C: What a terrible idea. [01:00:53] Speaker B: And again, initially, it almost makes it sound like, you know, oh, my gosh, you're not gonna have your own babies with this guy. It's not even that. It's more like you end up finding out that specifically her mother is just like, I just feel like it's going to be such an uphill battle to try to be this child's mother when she's old enough to know that you are not her biological mother. And it's like, that's an interesting dynamic. It's like she's like, yeah, you probably have other kids, but like, it's also like you're not. You're not having the full breadth of experience. You're kind of skipping past the diaper phase or like the early diaper phase. And it's like, it is interesting how the family conflict, the dynamic and how they're like kind of mad at her. It is at a sense understandable, especially socially, how it's like they're like, we put all this time into trying to find some guy for you that would work. [01:01:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:46] Speaker B: And you just like completely push it to the side and it's like this interesting idea of like, you know. Yeah. In this movie specifically, if you're not looking at the other two, it very much has this energy of like, your family matters the most is so their opinion should matter the most. [01:02:04] Speaker A: Right. [01:02:04] Speaker B: So when you do something so brash like this, they could take offense to it. And to a degree, they kind of have a right to socially, just because it's like, this is your dynamic, this is your core, this is your unit. And when you make a decision like that, not only are you going to be leaving that unit, but if you don't make it in a family, decision wise, it's. You could be leaving your unit for someone that the family doesn't like. And so, like, there's. Thankfully, they like Kenkichi. [01:02:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:32] Speaker B: I think ultimately they go, yes, we like him. Like, of course, it's not that we. [01:02:35] Speaker C: Don'T like it, you know, the kind of traditional Japanese like, status thing of like, well, you know, we had a perfectly good prospect for you, and now you want to go for the guy who's going to the middle of nowhere and has a kid already. Like, come on. [01:02:51] Speaker B: Which is interesting too, because again, it's like this one does have like this. Yeah. The financial, social status of it all. While Tokyo Story, it's like that is almost wholly dedicated on like finance and the work ethic and how like, you know, maybe they shouldn't focus too much on that. It's like this interesting thing of just like, how much more it's kind of accelerating. Yeah. And progressing and whatnot. And it unfortunately, I think the biggest kind of letdown of like the family d. The conflict thing is I don't think there's really like a resolution fully with. With Ryu and Hara in this. I think he just kind of like, I've accepted. He's like, yeah, I've accepted. [01:03:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:27] Speaker C: I mean, the whole family just kind of eventually has to realize, like. [01:03:31] Speaker B: But he definitely just has like, this. Yeah, I thought about it, and it's rash, but it's entirely Noriko. It's. Kichi is a nice guy, whatever like it is. I would say out of the three of these movies, it probably has the weakest ending, in my opinion. But I still really enjoyed it. I like the. I like the power. I like the shot of the bridal party going down the fields. [01:04:01] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Honestly, the thing I loved about the ending was the. Which I kind of wish the movie was a little bit more about wholesale, was kind of this idea of, like, you were talking about the family unit and, like, how that changes and people kind of graduate to their own family unit because at the end of this movie, they take a family picture and. [01:04:23] Speaker B: Fantastic. [01:04:24] Speaker C: That's a really lovely movie because it's. You know, they're taking this family picture at the moment where it's all changing. You know, Noriko's finally going her own way and then, you know, capturing that. [01:04:38] Speaker B: Time capsule of that right before. [01:04:40] Speaker C: And then they do a picture of just the mom and dad. And that's so sweet. And they're like. The mom is like, man, I don't remember the last time we got a photo taken together, like, 30 years ago. [01:04:51] Speaker B: It's like this all, like, hits. [01:04:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:53] Speaker C: And so, like, those, like, really sweet moments there at the end help it out. But I do kind of feel like, yeah. They're maybe not as tied into the rest of the movie as the other two films in this trilogy. [01:05:07] Speaker B: I would say. Yeah. I would also say, too. I think I would have liked more. [01:05:11] Speaker C: Kenkichi post him being a little bit more developed. [01:05:16] Speaker B: We'll just be like, the last time we kind of see Kenkichi is when his mother tells him that Noriko's gonna marry him. [01:05:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:22] Speaker B: And there's no real conference. [01:05:23] Speaker C: Not really. [01:05:24] Speaker B: He leaves the next day. Yeah. [01:05:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:26] Speaker B: Which I think is a very interesting idea of, like, with that Ozu makes where the suitor in late spring is never shown. [01:05:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:34] Speaker B: The. The suitor that, you know, people talk about, they want to give Noriko in early summer is never shown. And then when Kinkichi. Hilarious. I think it actually, it. This could be a viable excuse if you want. [01:05:46] Speaker C: Only times Kinkichi's are on screen is like, when they're not even a thing. [01:05:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:50] Speaker C: They're not talking about that. [01:05:52] Speaker B: Kind of funny. When he becomes a thing, he ends up being like the other suitors, where they, like, push him off screen. [01:05:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:57] Speaker B: Because it's not really about. It's not really about him, but I Do think it's interesting how all these three films, the love interest or like the one that she is, you know, actively set to be with is just like he hears through his mother and he's just like, what? And that's like, yeah, that's cool. [01:06:15] Speaker C: He doesn't even. He's not even especially excited. [01:06:17] Speaker B: No, no, no. [01:06:18] Speaker C: It's kind of like, oh, I can't believe that happened. [01:06:21] Speaker B: That's really crazy. Yeah. And I think it. I mean, you. Great, great moments. [01:06:27] Speaker C: She was serious. [01:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I would say the best doorway, like, passageway moments. Moment you get in early summer is when she eats dinner alone. It's one of the last things Hara. Noriko. [01:06:38] Speaker C: Noriko. [01:06:39] Speaker B: When she comes home, it's late. I think it's like a few days after they make the. After she makes the decision to go with. And they've all eaten without her and all the lights are off except for the kitchen. And she's just eating food in the kitchen by herself with, I believe the rest of the family still awake, just listening. And I think she's just like. Either she's silently crying or she's just really sad. Eating soup. [01:07:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:02] Speaker B: And I'm like, that shot is phenomenal because it just speaks volumes about, like, there is this. At a certain point, she made this journey, she made this decision alone. She's gonna have to go it alone. [01:07:13] Speaker A: Yes. [01:07:14] Speaker B: She will get the support of her family. She ultimately does. But like, once she leaves that house, like, she will become part of a new unit. [01:07:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:23] Speaker B: She will become a part of a new family. And so, like the family that she has, you know, it won't be her day to day. [01:07:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:30] Speaker B: And again, it's not saying that early summer's ending is bad. I still like the ending a lot. And I really. I think I just really enjoy the lead up to the ending more so than the ending proper. But. Yeah, because. Yeah, the taking the pictures is so cute. It's so well done and it is a really good emotional moment. And it just. Again, it's also hard when late spring has just such a genuinely a phenomenal banger of like an ending where an old man is just. Yeah, well, shaving an apple, like peeling an apple in the dark with his hand shaking. Such a. Such a visual, kind of visceral scene in a film that's very quiet. [01:08:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:07] Speaker B: And then this film is like the quiet ending I would have expected in late spring. I still enjoy. [01:08:13] Speaker C: And I really like Late spring also is doing so much with just basically two characters. [01:08:19] Speaker B: Yes. [01:08:19] Speaker C: And early summer is Is, you know, you've got the whole family and they're all, they've all got their stake in it and, and you know, it's just more spread around a little bit. Which, speaking of the family. God, those kids are some little shits. They are again, fucking. [01:08:38] Speaker B: And. But you know what? [01:08:39] Speaker C: Little pieces of shit. [01:08:40] Speaker B: Every time Grandpa, Grandpa went, ah, that's how they're supposed to be. I will say one of the funniest, one, the funniest moment out of all three of these movies is that their great uncle comes to visit. He's very deaf. There's a scene where he sits out and he's looking outside and the smallest one comes over and just smashes him. [01:09:01] Speaker C: An idiot. [01:09:01] Speaker B: He just. Yeah, it says, like, just keeps screaming at him. [01:09:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:04] Speaker B: And he doesn't respond. And then he leaves. And then the great uncle goes, yeah, that's just, that's great. [01:09:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:09:11] Speaker B: I mean, this is. Again, these are the types of movies where it's like, it sounds like there's not a lot going on, but just like you're so engaged because of how much the family is just so engaging in that sense where it's like you are very much into the dynamics per person as well as per family, as well as, you know, friendships per. Per family member and how those dynamics play into other characters. And you know, you also get an early summer the convert, like a great conversation between Noriko and her sister in law and how like there's like almost this energy. I think at one point her sister in law says now that like she's gonna see Noriko as a rival since they're now technically sister in laws. And it's like in a sense. And it's, there's this, it's, it's some, it's, it's a really good time. I think it's, it's great. I think as the in between, I think it definitely changes things up enough that it's like, okay, this is just not. It's not late spring again. [01:10:07] Speaker C: Right. [01:10:07] Speaker B: That's all I could ask for. And I really, really enjoyed it. And then you get into Tokyo Story, you get like, you know, the, the halfway point in terms of just like, well, this is like 10 years before, you know, before Ozu's last 10 years as a director. This is the film that I think when most people talk about Ozu, they come to this movie. Yeah, probably one of his most iconic films. And you have Chizu back, you have Ryu back as dad, as the old man, put the little old gray mustache on him make him be young, back in his element, Old and frail. A horror. Still, Noriko with the most interesting dynamic change in Tokyo story is the fact that Noriko is only a family member by marriage. [01:10:57] Speaker C: Marriage? Yeah, through. She's an in law. [01:11:00] Speaker B: She's an in law. She is a. She is the, I believe, of four kids. Her husband was, I think, the second oldest. [01:11:10] Speaker C: Something like that. [01:11:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:11] Speaker B: Like he was like in the middle of four kids and he died in the war. [01:11:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:16] Speaker B: So they got married really young. And now Noriko, she is probably like, you know, on Death's door at 30 with the way they talk about it, but it's. She is. She's an in law, but she's still very much involved with the family. Hangs out a lot with. I believe the two other family members are Koichi, who's a neighborhood doctor. They say, like it's a bad thing. [01:11:42] Speaker C: And also it's funny because Koichi is the older brother to Noriko. In early summer, they reuse the names a lot. It's not just Noriko. [01:11:54] Speaker B: Yes. [01:11:55] Speaker C: Koichi is the name in all three. Shay is a name in all three. [01:11:59] Speaker B: I think she gay. [01:12:00] Speaker C: Is maybe Koichi's wife in this? I don't remember. No, no, she's the sister. [01:12:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Shay is the hairdresser sister. The beautician. Yeah, she's in. That Actress is in all three of these movies in different degrees. [01:12:15] Speaker C: But if you've noticed, we haven't been saying all the characters names. It's largely because they are so swapped around in every one of these movies that it's like, it would. It's almost easier to just think of, like, okay, her brother, her sister. [01:12:27] Speaker B: And the youngest of the four kids is, I believe, Keizo or Kaizo. [01:12:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:33] Speaker B: Is barely a character. [01:12:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:34] Speaker C: Hardly there. [01:12:35] Speaker B: He's the youngest and he works with trains. That's kind of basically what he. He shows up towards the end. It's funniest too, because they never talk about him until they're taking their way back home and they run into him. And I literally had to go. My brain goes, oh, so there's another kid that just doesn't live in Tokyo. [01:12:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:56] Speaker B: And they just. Because they're like, we saw all our children. [01:13:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:00] Speaker C: He basically doesn't show up till the end. Right. [01:13:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:03] Speaker B: And then there's Kyoko. [01:13:05] Speaker C: Kyoko, the youngest. Yeah. [01:13:07] Speaker B: I thought it was Shige's daughter. [01:13:09] Speaker C: No, she's. She's the youngest. Shukichi and Tomi's youngest daughter. [01:13:13] Speaker B: Oh, okay. So there's five. Okay. [01:13:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:15] Speaker C: There's so Noriko, Shige, Shoji, Keizo and Kyoko. Yeah. [01:13:22] Speaker B: God damn, those two were. [01:13:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:26] Speaker B: Good for them. [01:13:26] Speaker C: And actually I'm only able to double check you on that because the Wikipedia page for Tokyo Story actually has a family tree. [01:13:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:34] Speaker C: The whole diagram. We were not so lucky with the other two, but this is the easily the biggest family. [01:13:41] Speaker B: Well, I really want to know that. I want to know the family tree for late stage spring. Who's Noriko's dad? Yeah. A Tokyo Story is probably the most involved plot in terms of just like. [01:13:57] Speaker C: I mean, it's. [01:13:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:58] Speaker C: Just the most plot heavy. [01:13:59] Speaker B: Yeah. It is basically Ryu and his wife, these. The. The matriarch and patriarch of the family going to Tokyo to visit their children as well as their. As well as Noriko, their. Their daughter in law. [01:14:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:14] Speaker B: And basically just spend time with them. And they won't express as to why they're spending time with them. They just want to hang out. [01:14:19] Speaker C: I mean they're, they're getting older and they. Yes, it's. I. I guess we're to understand they've never been to Tokyo because they do a lot of touristy things while they're there and see things they've never seen before. So, you know, they're. They're out of towners here to see the big city, but mainly to spend time with their kids. [01:14:38] Speaker B: Yeah. They do kabuki at one point, don't they? They do Kabuki, I think all three of them. [01:14:42] Speaker C: Right? [01:14:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:45] Speaker C: No, I don't think in early. [01:14:47] Speaker B: Is early summer there when they go with the great uncle. [01:14:51] Speaker C: That's right. [01:14:52] Speaker B: Early on. [01:14:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:53] Speaker B: Because like they're just like. Can you even hear what's going on in there? [01:14:58] Speaker C: Late spring probably has the most pivotal. [01:15:01] Speaker B: Theater scene, the longest one, because in Tokyo Story, the kabuki kind of situation, the play is kind of where Noriko gets kind of brought in because Koichi's too busy being a doctor so he has to constantly reschedule stuff. [01:15:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:17] Speaker B: Shige lives like. She lives at her salon. [01:15:22] Speaker C: Right. [01:15:22] Speaker B: Her house is her salon. And she is constantly working. And so she doesn't have any time most days because I think they all just work six to seven days. Yeah, they work a whole week almost. [01:15:33] Speaker C: Keiza's out of town. [01:15:35] Speaker B: Keiza's out of town. And so. And Kyoko is watching the house back at the fish. Back at the fishing village. [01:15:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:41] Speaker B: Where their parents live. So Noriko takes the day off to hang out with them and I think is where the conversations kind of started. Just like reconceptualizing just family in general, as well as, you know, talking to Noriko as, you know, someone that they see as a daughter, but also feel like, guilty that there. There's a part of them that feels guilty that she's still a part of the family eight years after their son's death. [01:16:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:13] Speaker B: Thinking that, like, you know, she could. She could get married and maybe she should. [01:16:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:19] Speaker B: Which is an. Which is the most interesting, I think, out of all three of these films and how they use Noriko in terms of like. Like, once they. I saw that, it was like, oh, she's not even there. She's an in law. And there's trauma surrounding it. Okay. There's an angle here that I think that is. [01:16:36] Speaker C: Well, and she's also, I would argue, kind of notably in this trilogy, not really the main character of this movie. [01:16:44] Speaker B: No. The least amount of horror. [01:16:46] Speaker C: Unlike the other two, where she's very much the centerpiece of it all. She is kind of the pivotal piece that the movie centers around emotionally. But it's. We're basically watching the perspective of the mom and dad and because, you know, we're following them from their, you know, leaving their homes to go to Tokyo to visit their experiences with all their kids. They talk about their kids a lot and what their family has kind of become and things like that and their relationship with Noriko. But yeah, Noriko is really interesting in this one because she's, like you said, she's, quote, unquote, less related. You know, she's. She's. Yeah, the widow to their son. And they. They express. A lot of. The parents express a lot of guilt like that. Not. Not just that, like, you know, oh, you've stuck around and stayed single and, you know, you should have a better life with a new husband or something. But they also, you know, they're kind of like, well, our son wasn't that great and you could have done better. And, you know, we. We fear that he gave you such a hard time in life. [01:18:03] Speaker B: I would. I wonder. And again, this is coming from someone who hasn't seen this one yet, but as it's. This is one of the classic. I've had this wrapped from. This is a Criterion Collection film I've had wrapped on my shelf and have it unwrapped. This has the energy that it feels like it would pair well with Ikaru from Kurosawa. Having this conversation like this is about two older people really contemplating their own lives in respect to their family and the expectations they've put upon them as well. As the reality of it, as well as how they just are as people. Because my God. And it's something that. I love the fact that even though Koichi and Shige are as cold as ice, I love the fact that both, you know, Ryu and his wife are just like. I mean, they're strong business people. You gotta have a strong. You gotta. You gotta. You have to know how to cut it. Like, they're. [01:18:58] Speaker C: They're that. They're that brand of old person of parent or whatever who's just like relentlessly deflective of slights toward them. [01:19:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:11] Speaker C: Where they're like, you know. You know, their kids practically make no time for them during their visit to Tokyo. [01:19:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:18] Speaker C: Their first time in Tokyo. [01:19:19] Speaker B: It's so interesting. [01:19:20] Speaker C: They're just like. [01:19:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:22] Speaker C: You know, like, would be nice to see them more. But like. [01:19:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:25] Speaker C: They've got a lot going on. [01:19:26] Speaker B: Because it's interesting to see the fact that like this. I think this movie has the most defined and easy kind of conversation about the generational gap. [01:19:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:37] Speaker B: Because this family alone. And even though I think in reality all these people, I think the biggest gap, age wise, I think is probably between like Kiyoko's actor and the mom. I think the mom was actually born, I think before 1900. Like that actress. Yeah. Yeah. But like. But there's like. Yeah. The matriarch who's. She's delightful. She's wonderful in this movie. [01:20:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:20:01] Speaker B: She's got so many moments, like, towards the end that are just like, fuck. Like this. Just. This woman is killing it. [01:20:08] Speaker C: Worthy of dropping her name. Chieko Higashiyama. [01:20:12] Speaker B: Thank you. My phone is off. So the amount of times I've tried to remember who the actress and actress's name are. [01:20:21] Speaker C: 1990 to 1980. [01:20:22] Speaker B: Yeah, 1980. [01:20:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:20:25] Speaker B: Hell yeah. [01:20:25] Speaker C: For her. She's also in the idiot. [01:20:28] Speaker B: Oh, nice. I mean, it's. Again, it just is like you have the parents who are like silent generation. Like oldest as can be in terms of whatever that kind of conversation would be. And then you have like Koichi and Shige who are like. If they are even considered silent generation. It's the baby. Youngest of that. [01:20:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:20:52] Speaker B: And then you have Noriko who is like the stand in for the middle child, like her. Her husband. Because they're probably kind of similar. Same age and they're kind of. Her and Kiyoko have this energy of like, different era boomer. [01:21:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:21:05] Speaker B: In a sense. Like how they're kind of. How they're kind of talked about. Because Kyoichi and Shige are super. Just bitter to the point, but very real. Like, cynical in a way that is like, makes sense because they are both. They are like, again, they're trying to. [01:21:23] Speaker C: Figure out how to live life in this very tight and difficult and transitionary time in their world. [01:21:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:21:32] Speaker C: There's not a lot of room for mistakes and leisure and, you know, things like that. [01:21:37] Speaker B: And they are adults working nine to fives in a world that is like. Like, I wanted to do more than just this, but now I'm a neighborhood doctor. I'm a hairdresser, like a local hairdresser. And like, they like what they're doing, but they also understand that there's probably this implication when their families, like, their parents see them, where it's like, they're not doing everything they probably could be doing. [01:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:21:59] Speaker B: And that probably has some built in resentment a little bit, as well as some history there that I think comes out at certain times. Like, at one point, Ryu's character gets blackout drunk. And Shige's response to it is exceptionally strong in a sense where, like, even if she didn't say we've had the history with, this is not my favorite. [01:22:24] Speaker C: Right. [01:22:25] Speaker B: You can tell that her father's drinking history has made her just detest drinking in general. Even though he doesn't do anything. He literally just sleeps in a bar. He just sleeps in a beauty chair. He doesn't do anything. But it's like, it almost gives her a chill down her spine. [01:22:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:40] Speaker C: It's like, oh, great, you're back to this. [01:22:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:42] Speaker C: Because I think at one point caused me whatever problems because I think she. [01:22:45] Speaker B: Even said, like, mom used to hate when he would do this. And it's like, it's in, like. So you have these different dynamics that are just like, that is so much fun because there's enough to really just flesh out there. [01:22:57] Speaker C: Well, they. Even with regards to Shukichi's drinking, they also. There's a conversation with Noriko earlier in the movie where they're. They're talking about Shoji, their son who's dead, her husband. [01:23:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:10] Speaker C: And, you know, mom and dad are talking about like, oh, does he like to drink a lot or did he like to drink a lot? And Noriko's like, yeah, he liked drinking. And like, there's kind of like a. There's a familiarity there with mom and dad where they're like, yeah, that makes sense. And almost kind of like this guilt because they're suggesting that they got it from him or he. Shoji got it. Got it from dad. [01:23:40] Speaker B: Yeah. I Think that's also what introduces like. Yeah. Ryu used to go out a lot. [01:23:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:23:44] Speaker B: Then of course, he ends up going out and having some, I think, a genuine. A phenomenal conversation with like, two of his peers, old friends that used to live in the fishing village. One was, I believe, a mayor or like a political. No, I think it was a police chief. [01:24:01] Speaker C: Okay. [01:24:02] Speaker B: There's a police chief and then a friend who I believe who. His other friend, who is. He was roaming with that night because another thing. Yeah. Cuz like, reused kids can't let him spend the night anywhere because they're just busy. So he spends the night. But. And no one has any space for both him and his wife. So his wife stays with Nordico for a night. [01:24:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:24:20] Speaker B: And he spends the night with his friend. And his friend has, I think, clearly plenty of space for both of them. But there is an implication, I think, when they talk to his friend and his friend's wife that like, they both. They lost their son in the war. [01:24:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:24:35] Speaker B: And that comes out, of course, when alcohol is involved and the police chief is constantly bitching about his son. And how about. He'll never understand doing some old man yells at cloud type stuff. And it's like. It's something I think is very. Tales old as time is the conversation about this next generation doesn't understand the hardships that we have dealt to. And there's two ways to respond to that. Is you hold on to that resentment and pretend and believe for some reason, pretend, I would say that everyone around you is also aware of that, but don't care. [01:25:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:06] Speaker C: Or that your generation is particularly struggling more than any other generation has had. [01:25:13] Speaker B: Or you have like, kind of reused perspective where I think at a certain point, and he doesn't say it like this, but it's like every generation has its ups and downs, pros and cons. And while they'll never understand and while there are expectations of them and they usually don't hit those, that doesn't make them any less beloved. That doesn't make them any less successful, in a sense. And that doesn't make me, you know, that doesn't make it any less like, of a job that I did because I'm still proud of them in a sense, in a different way than what I was expecting them to be proud of. [01:25:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:44] Speaker B: Because like, it's funny. Like, again, because the way he says, like, yeah, Koichi is a neighborhood doctor is the way that it's the neighborhood. [01:25:52] Speaker C: Aspect of it, where it's like a slur. [01:25:55] Speaker B: Yeah. They say like it's a, it's the worst thing in the world to be a doctor in the streets. [01:25:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:59] Speaker C: It's like how people talk about dentists and it's not being real doctors and. [01:26:03] Speaker B: It'S like, I don't know. Koichi's got a cool little setup in his house. I mean, I would say like having sick people come into your house, like. [01:26:10] Speaker C: Check if I understand constantly on call or. [01:26:12] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's, it is kind of like you see that, you know, while their kids are very apprehensive and sometimes seem like they're very annoyed by the fact that they're just coming in randomly to just kind of spend time. Which we ultimately find out is because they both, both parents believe that like, you know, they're not getting any younger and they don't know if they'll be able to come back out to Tokyo. At some point you start to see that like the, the work ethic, you know, the, the very, the maturity of every like, of Shige and Koichiks. You don't see much of Keizo, Kaizo or Kiyoko. And Kyoko's so young, right. She's like early 20s, school teacher. [01:26:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:26:52] Speaker B: I think you see that like you. They are good people. They are good people. And a lot of the, the, the iciness or like the cynicism is very much built in because of not only the world around them, but also just how they grew up at different time. So it's like there is like a. There are fun dynamics there in terms of the actors and that kind of. And to have them play it off so well even though that like, you know, Shige was like, I'm pretty sure like one of Noriko's best friends or like one of Noriko's friends in like I think late Spring or she was involved. She's in all three of these movies. [01:27:32] Speaker C: Most of these actors in this are in all three. [01:27:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:27:36] Speaker B: Then like Koichi is like. Again, Koichi plays older brother, I think better than Ryu does. [01:27:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:27:42] Speaker B: And there's not even a 10 year gap between Ryu and Koichi's actor in this. Like every actor in this, I think really plays their age gap up so much more. I think in a way that really works well in really getting the grasp of this family dynamic in this tree and ultimately leads to, I think, why this is all happening, which is, you know, the, the family, like the parents just want to see the kids one. [01:28:12] Speaker C: More time because yeah, they don't feel like they have that much. [01:28:15] Speaker B: Yeah, it's More. Yeah, it's. It's not even because they, they like. Yeah. It's because they don't think they can travel as much often. But also they're getting old. They're getting old. [01:28:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:28:27] Speaker B: And it's ultimately what leads to be the dramatic, you know, kind of pin in this narrative is the fact that when they try to get home is when mom gets sick. [01:28:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:28:38] Speaker B: And things start to become more apparent that this trip was more of a possible send off. [01:28:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:28:46] Speaker B: Like, kind of like a, like a, like a tour of all the places they've never got to see growing up of the city that their kids lived in. And ultimately leads to a finale that has the kids coming down to the. Their hometown, paying their respects and ultimately the mother passing away and leading to again, a film that shows yet again, you could have Hara be in a two hour film and. And this is not how she is in Tokyo Story. I'm just saying, hypothetically, you can have her just smile and not have a single line for the first hour and 50 minutes, but if you just give her anything to work with in that last 10, it's. She just fucking takes it. And it just takes you by, just takes you by the shoulders and shakes you to your core. Just the kind of conversations they have in this back half where it's like, you know, Ryu's conversation with like the last conversation he has with his wife is, you know, beautiful moments towards the end where like, I mean, of course, I would argue the best moment in this whole movie is of course, the conversation, the final conversation, the final big conversation, which is Ryu and Noriko, because while, you know, the family pays respects for their mother and you know, it's very sad. They've known for the while, like their mother is old, I think also Koiji says she's fat. She's fat, she's old. It was only a matter of time. Like, I'm glad we got to see her again, but I should probably get back to my family. And Shige's like, yeah, I should probably get back to my, to my husband in my salon. And then Kiyoko just fucking like she gets so pissed off at them. [01:30:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:30:39] Speaker B: Because they don't stay any longer. And again, it's funny too, because Keizo just goes, oh, there's a baseball game back home. I have to go write a report. And there's a baseball game. And it's like, you are such the youngest child of these. Like, you are such a younger child. You are third. You are, you are clearly four or five and Kyoko is just like mad and she's like. And like. And Noriko, I think, has this beautiful moment again. Someone who's kind of felt like not an outsider, but more of an observer for a lot of the family dynamic and cutting in when she wants to or feels like she can. She has this moment with Kyoko where it's like, listen, when you get to a certain point, when you live as long as your older siblings do and even just live as long as mom and dad and mom did and dad is like, things change. You get a little bit more selfish, you get a little bit more cynical. You get like, you just. [01:31:34] Speaker C: Well, there's your priorities change. [01:31:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:31:37] Speaker C: Like the, the unit, the family unit. [01:31:42] Speaker B: Shige's got her husband and like a business that she's running out. Out of her own house. [01:31:48] Speaker A: Like, yeah. [01:31:50] Speaker B: And. But. And then Kyoko's like, well, you're still here. And it's like, yes, but like, I'm not like, I think at a certain point she says, like, I'm not to their point yet. Like, like almost saying, like, I'm not old, I'm not their age yet. [01:32:05] Speaker A: Right. [01:32:06] Speaker B: But who's to say I won't become that when I get to that point? And then I think that's a phenomenal, just like big sister moment for Kiyoko. And then of course has this. I think it's been constantly talked about the sayonara where they can't stop saying goodbye to each other because neither one of them wants to say goodbye to one another. And then leads to, I think, the most emotional, heart wrenching part of this movie, which already has like a sad death of the matriarch in it. But just Ryu giving Nordico her his wife's watch and being like, you deserve to be. You don't have to. You don't have to stay with this family of an obligation. We don't want you to feel like it is not selfish to want to remarry. And leads to this very vulnerable conversation where she's like, I feel so selfish having any kind of conversations because I don't think about your son every day. There are days that go by that don't even think about him. And I feel terrible, right. [01:33:11] Speaker C: This overwhelming guilt that you aren't grief stricken all the time. [01:33:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:33:16] Speaker B: And it's, I think, this great example. I think it's. I think even they say it earlier on the movie. It's like this conversation of like, she clearly is still feeling the loss of Shoji, but it's been eight years. Her normal now, unfortunately, is just with herself as a single woman. Like, with Shoji's picture on a mantle piece. He has been a mantle. He's been a figure of her mantelpiece for eight years now. So it's like, it's no surprise that she doesn't think about him that often. [01:33:49] Speaker C: Because, unfortunately, I mean, realistically, she probably grieved him longer than she was married to him. [01:33:54] Speaker B: Yeah, I would say so. And that's. And that is just. I think, even has more power to how both having Ryu and his wife just be like, we genuinely do not feel any kind of offense. Like, but you can also see in Hara's face, like, you see in Noriko's face, that she just. There is a. There is a. There is a choice that is made if she gets remarried, that she is cutting off from this family, in a sense. And now that she has lost the mom, the matriarch, and that she. Like, one of the last moments the mom had was with Noriko. [01:34:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:34:31] Speaker B: It is like this. There's almost this obligation in her face. You can feel like she feels like her obligation is to keep this going maybe until he passes, and then he just goes like, no, you just, like, we will always love you, but you don't have to be the grieving widow. Which is just to go from where. Late spring, I think, arguably has some progressive elements, too, but still ultimately ends up with her being like, you have to get married. [01:34:57] Speaker C: Right. [01:34:58] Speaker B: She's like, okay, fine. [01:34:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:34:59] Speaker B: Then you get to a point where, like, in Tokyo Story, you have this woman who, like, clearly could get married and maybe does to an extent, but feels like there's an obligation because of a shared trauma of losing her husband as well as losing their son. And now realizing that, like, there is a bit of a. I basically give you my blessing to move on. [01:35:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:35:25] Speaker B: And ultimately leads to the finale being this. I think, this phenomenal last moment with Hara where she's just holding on to that watch and just, like, staring into space and just, you know, not scared of what's coming next, but I think there is some fear of what's coming next, but also, like, almost like a weight has kind of been lifted. [01:35:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:35:45] Speaker B: Knowing, like, it's okay to not constantly think about Shoji or be a grieving widow constantly, or be that stereotype to an extent. She can. She can move on fully if she wants to, leading to, like, the end of this movie just being just so impactful. And clearly no surprise as to why this is, like, the favorite of so many because of how much is going. [01:36:06] Speaker C: On is just the most known. [01:36:09] Speaker B: It is. Yeah. [01:36:11] Speaker C: And again, Those who made 17 movies named after seasons people probably Tokyo Story probably stands out a little bit more in his photography. [01:36:19] Speaker B: Where are you talking about early autumn? Are you talking about Tokyo Twilight? [01:36:23] Speaker C: I'm talking about Tokyo Drift in the fall. An autumn Tokyo Drift. [01:36:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Like it is. I understand that too. Oh, absolutely. Like hell. When we were figuring, when we were prepping for this trilogy, I had to constantly remind myself that Autumn Afternoon is. [01:36:38] Speaker C: Not part of this. [01:36:39] Speaker B: It's funny because Hara's in it as a prominent part. She's not Noriko. [01:36:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:36:44] Speaker B: It leads to this trilogy that I think is just this, you know, open and cut case of just a trio of films that thematically really embraces these elements in a way that is unique each time in a way that I don't think any. I don't think any of these films are perfect. But I think the experience of watching this for the first time has a perfection aspect to it. There's. There's something that's like, I'll never be able to watch these movies again for the first time. But I really, just. Because I. But I'm really excited to give these another watch in the future or show someone else these movies and really just like. [01:37:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:37:22] Speaker B: Introduce the idea of like how powerful impactful dramas can be. When it's even with just like just the most straightforward. You know, sometimes just like hunkered down, kind of locked down. Cinematography the most stark, dark light, like stark lighting between just like lit and dark. And I wish more movies were willing. [01:37:47] Speaker C: To look like this. Oh yeah. Very calm camera work and oh my God, yeah. A stillness too. [01:37:53] Speaker B: I don't even. I. Again, it's like. And I think in my brain, I always think when I think of movies like this or just movies in general, I'm always just like, how much money do they spend on these movies? But like, at the same time, I think when I was watching this, it's like it doesn't. [01:38:06] Speaker C: I don't care. [01:38:07] Speaker B: I don't care. Like, it doesn't usually matter. But I think it's just always. It's just. It's interesting how I think all three of these movies, I think clearly Tokyo Story is probably the most expensive just because of the amount of locations, cast members, as well as the, you know, how much traveling is done. [01:38:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:38:25] Speaker B: But ultimately I think all three of these films are able to get away with being probably similar in budget or like similar in size and able to talk about these themes uniquely per film without really Ever getting boring. [01:38:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:38:41] Speaker B: So, yeah, that's the Noriko trilogy. I had a blast. And I forgot that I was the one that suggested it. [01:38:47] Speaker C: Yes. This was the Logan original. [01:38:49] Speaker B: This is. This is. Oh, that's right. [01:38:51] Speaker C: Because I. Yeah, I know you didn't come up with. [01:38:54] Speaker B: No, no, no. [01:38:55] Speaker C: The idea of the trilogy. But you suggested it for the part. [01:38:59] Speaker B: No. Yeah, I did. I think I remember now while it took, what, 90 minutes, over 90 minutes to remember this, but, like, I think I just had a weird. Like, I think I was just scrolling through, like, Reddit or something, and just like, I think I was looking at Tokyo Story is like. I think I had that on my watch list. [01:39:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:39:16] Speaker B: And I was at a restaurant that now, unfortunately does not exist anymore. But I was just waiting for, like, it was Easy Rider, Rest in Peace. I was getting, like, a breakfast burrito or something. And then I, like, was looking at, you know, Tokyo Story and being like, Criterion Collection and being like, have you ever heard of Ozu before? And then, of course, I look up, do you know what? This is part of the Noriko trilogy. And I'm like, what is in the spreadsheet? Don't even think. Don't even go farther than that. It's just. Yeah, it's. It is in terms of, you know, if you've been wanting to get more into Japanese cinema and maybe you just have mostly, you know, maybe Kurosawa or Miike or just like other different, you know, maybe splash years, not really, like, flashier or more, I guess, quote unquote, iconic in terms of just like, their bigger epic films, I think it would be definitely worth watching these smaller, yet kind of impactful, kind of provocative, in a different sense. Dramas. [01:40:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:40:14] Speaker C: I think the more epic films tend to get a lot of the spotlight when we talk about Japanese cinema and a lot of the historical dramas and. [01:40:25] Speaker B: And. [01:40:27] Speaker C: Yes, the thrillers and bombastic things that Kurosawa did. But, yeah, Ozu represents. I mean, there's a lot of other filmmakers like him and in this kind of wheelhouse from this time, this kind of slow cinema of Japan of the mid century. But Ozu kind of is a, I guess, a distillation of that and, you know, really shows the strengths of that kind of storytelling. [01:40:59] Speaker B: Honestly, I'm glad you brought up Koganata earlier, because that is kind of like. [01:41:02] Speaker C: A coconut is kind of a modern. [01:41:06] Speaker B: Evolution of that, which we are definitely not biased if we recommend Columbus. Right. That has, I think, kind of very similar Ozu energy. [01:41:14] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [01:41:16] Speaker B: Even after Yang, which is coconut is most Great. But, yeah, I mean, there's just. If you're looking for just atmosphere and aura that is just like almost a warm blanket at times, as well as just willing. A warm blanket that's willing to just grab your heart, any point, and just wretch it out. In an emotional sense, it is these. The Narco trilogy is definitely worth it. I would say all three films are worth watching, I think. I mean, they're all on Criterion. I think Tokyo Story is the most readily available, but maybe the Criterion channel might have all three of them. But I know. I mean, I bought Story as soon as I could months ago, and it's still wrapped. But, yeah, going from the Noriko trilogy, we decided in between the end of September as well as, you know, going into October, where we have some fun choices for October. It's not spooky, scary stuff, but some fun additions in October that we're really excited to do with. With guests. With a guest as well. But before we get to October, we really wanted to talk about, I think the most spooky, scary thing we'll talk about for the rest of the year, for a while at least, is what I referred to earlier this. This episode, which is. We are doing a frequent discussion of conjuring last rites. See, which feels like 87 years ago, but I think this was more two or three years ago. We did. [01:42:46] Speaker C: We did Conjuring. [01:42:47] Speaker B: We did the Conjuring trilogy. [01:42:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:42:49] Speaker B: Because we didn't know that we were gonna get another one after Devil made me do it. [01:42:53] Speaker C: Well, they kind of sold three as like it was gonna be the last one. [01:42:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Because there was no one. [01:42:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:42:59] Speaker C: And it felt like we shouldn't have gotten that one. [01:43:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:43:03] Speaker C: Let alone another one after it. [01:43:04] Speaker B: Because to be honest, I feel like the getting away with having the nun be the way that it was, I feel like is the peak of the Conjuring Universe mountain. And then it's kind of come down from there. [01:43:16] Speaker C: The peak in quality, you mean? [01:43:18] Speaker B: No, no, no, no, no. I mean the peak in terms that was the nun 2 peak of getting away with it. [01:43:22] Speaker C: Oh, okay. [01:43:23] Speaker B: None too. I had a fun time, but, like, nothing too bad. [01:43:28] Speaker C: We. [01:43:28] Speaker B: Yeah, none too bad. Too fast to none. But I think it is kind of this. We did Devil made me do it. And. Yeah. We just thought, like, how would you. Why would you do another one? Especially when three kind of feels like it doesn't know what it fully wants. [01:43:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:43:43] Speaker C: Here we are in the year of our. The year of our lords Ed and Lorraine Warren, 2025. [01:43:51] Speaker B: Another Another James Wan List directed Conjuring film is the same director as Three, I think. [01:43:58] Speaker C: So I think you're right. Well, I don't know. [01:43:59] Speaker B: I'm not going to think about it much if I think about too much. But yeah, we're. I mean, I am kind of curious because it is now when we thought Devil Made Me do it was going to be the last film. This is certainly going to be the last film because literally, I think both Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga have basically outright said this is the end for their versions of the Warrens. So this is going to be the final Conjuring film. [01:44:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:44:27] Speaker C: Which means they're going to canonically kill Ed and Lorraine Warren, even though they lived into the 21st century. [01:44:35] Speaker B: I don't even know when four takes place. It's the funniest thing I think they. [01:44:39] Speaker C: Like at this point in that series. So it's all just. [01:44:43] Speaker B: And it's so funny too, because I hope she doesn't get mad if she listens to this. But yeah, Andy's life was like, we should rewatch all the Conjuring movies. [01:44:54] Speaker C: And Andy, I just shut her down. [01:44:56] Speaker B: Andy shut her down and answered for me, which he doesn't usually do. And I think a lot of it is because I think he knew that if she even asked me, I probably would have been nice. [01:45:05] Speaker C: Right. Right. [01:45:06] Speaker B: I would have never rewatched the Nun. I fucking hate the Nun. [01:45:10] Speaker C: That's what she wants to rewatch. I know she does because those are her favorite. She basically said. [01:45:14] Speaker B: She said, okay, we won't watch the Conjuring movies. [01:45:16] Speaker C: We'll just rewatch the good stuff. [01:45:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:45:18] Speaker B: That's like basically saying, okay, we won't rewatch. We won't reheat up this like three day old meet. We'll actually just shoot ourselves in the head. Like, no, I don't want the Nun. But I mean, I remember us like still enjoying one and two. I think one is still my favorite. Yeah. [01:45:38] Speaker C: One's still my favorite. [01:45:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:45:39] Speaker C: Conjuring Two does some pretty cool things with like, I don't know, the. The Crooked man had some cool effects and things. [01:45:45] Speaker B: There's some. Why did that movie not happen? I don't know why that. [01:45:51] Speaker C: I'm interested to see how they can justify a fourth outing. [01:45:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Because now this is. This is so We've had three Conjuring films, three Annabelle films, two Nuns and A la Llorona. So this is. Is this the tenth Conjuring Universe film? [01:46:10] Speaker C: Let me nine. This might be the tenth one. [01:46:15] Speaker B: Well, because Curse of the Law. Your own. I don't think technically counts. [01:46:19] Speaker C: Six, seven, eight. So this would be nine. This would be the ninth one. [01:46:24] Speaker B: Okay, so this is the ninth film in the Conjuring Universe. [01:46:27] Speaker C: Oh, but this does. This Wikipedia doesn't count. La Llorona. [01:46:30] Speaker B: Well, that. What? I. I don't. I've never seen Log around. [01:46:32] Speaker C: I haven't either. [01:46:33] Speaker B: I don't think I'll ever see Lawyer. No, but I don't. [01:46:35] Speaker C: I don't. It also. The Wikipedia page for the Conjuring Universe also mentions wolves at the Door. [01:46:41] Speaker B: I don't know what that is. [01:46:43] Speaker C: Apparently it's related to. [01:46:47] Speaker B: What's the poster. [01:46:48] Speaker C: So Eric Layden, who plays Detective Clarken in Annabelle, returns as the same character in Wolves at the Door. [01:46:56] Speaker B: I don't know what wolves at the. [01:46:58] Speaker C: I've never heard of this movie written by Gary. [01:47:03] Speaker B: Is it produced by Juan? Is it made by Atomic Monster? What is this? [01:47:06] Speaker C: It's. [01:47:09] Speaker B: Sorry, you're having on like live a brain fart from both of us. Because we're trying to. [01:47:14] Speaker C: We neither of us know about this movie. It's. New line. [01:47:19] Speaker B: Who's in it? [01:47:21] Speaker C: Nobody we know. Katie Cassidy. [01:47:24] Speaker B: I don't. Wait, I don't Katie Cassie. [01:47:25] Speaker C: Oh, you do. [01:47:26] Speaker B: What is. Yeah. [01:47:28] Speaker C: Oh, okay. [01:47:28] Speaker B: David Cassidy's daughter, I think. Yeah. She's an arrow. That's how I know her. God, when did that movie come out? [01:47:36] Speaker C: 2015, 2016. [01:47:38] Speaker B: Oh, my God. I didn't know that. [01:47:41] Speaker C: The film is loosely based on the murder of Sharon Tate. Loosely? I don't know how loosely. [01:47:48] Speaker B: This rabbit hole is only going to get worse if we keep looking. [01:47:51] Speaker C: Yeah, apparently. Apparently. Okay. Not formally recognized as part of the franchise. But it is listed as related on the Wikipedia page because that one guy plays the same character in both Annabelle and this. [01:48:04] Speaker B: The Wolves of the do is a second cousin to the Conjuring Universe and. [01:48:08] Speaker C: The Curse of Law. Your own is also listed as related, but not part of my phone, since. [01:48:13] Speaker B: My phone is off. Andy, when is the Conjuring episode coming out? [01:48:17] Speaker C: Conjuring4froxel frequent number 13. [01:48:20] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [01:48:21] Speaker C: Scary. Number 13. Oh, my God. This really is the last scariest episode. And that's even considering the CGI monstrosities we're going to be facing later this year. That comes out Conjuring fork comes out September 20th. [01:48:37] Speaker B: Okay, so tune in on the 20th when we discuss the last rites of the Conjuring Universe with the Conjuring last rites. But until then, I'm Logan Sowash. [01:48:46] Speaker C: And I'm Andy Carr. [01:48:47] Speaker B: Thank you. So much for listening. Bye.