Episode 108: The Qatsi Trilogy

[00:00:19] Speaker A: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Soosh. [00:00:22] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:00:23] Speaker A: And at Odd Trilogies, we take a trio of films, whether tied by cast and crew, thematic elements, or just numerical order, and we discuss the good, the bad, and the weird surrounding each film. And today we're doing Adam Sandler. I'm kidding. We've already done our goofy film of the month. We've already gone through the Naked Gun films this month, as well as, you know, with Nick. With Nick Rogers, friend of the pod, as well as an IFJ member who is, you know, a fantastic addition. When we were talking about not only those films, but also the new Naked Gun, we decided that in between newer releases that we were going to talk about on the pod, as well as do reviews and whatnot for the show, we wanted to tackle a trilogy that is truly odd and one that we've wanted to do for a while. Very similar to Infernal and Fairs this year, where this has been on the list for a while. And we thought, what better time than to fill it in that August September slot? And so what better way to end off the month than to talk about the Katsi trilogy? [00:01:27] Speaker B: A trilogy I'm sure you've heard of. [00:01:31] Speaker A: You have either never heard of this trilogy, or if you are way too into Criterion Collection, like I can be when the sales are, Andy can be as well. You probably have seen the trilogy on a Criterion Collection kind of shelf, because it is part of the Criterion Collection. The trilogy consists of 1982's Koyanisqatsi, 1988's Powaqatsi, and then 2002's Nikoiqatsi. The reason why I'm the one pronouncing these is because the last couple times we have done this, I have made Andy do it, and I felt like it was better that I have shown that I have now learned I am not going in blind. I have indeed watched all three of these movies. [00:02:15] Speaker B: Well, not that watching the movies necessarily pronounces them for you. [00:02:19] Speaker A: Actually, the funniest part about these three films is these three films start and then, honestly, I would say one of the things I like about all three of these films is they have unique versions of how they introduce the title card, but hilariously enough, their. Their definition as to what these words mean. Even though they're based off, they're inspired by based off of the Hopi language, which is a Native American tribe that's kind of around Navajo Nation in Arizona. You don't get the definitions for these films until the very definitions for these words until the very end of the film. [00:02:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:55] Speaker A: They usually wait until the last few seconds before the credits to show this is what this word means. [00:03:01] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:03:02] Speaker A: Which again, I think is a really good kind of end note in terms of like, it's a good litmus test to whether or not you can understand why these films are called the Way They Are. And we will go. We will talk about how later on as these films go, that last film it'll be. That is the one where I feel like the title and the description is. [00:03:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. To kind of set the stage because it can be a little. These aren't movies that necessarily, like at a glance, if you're looking at them on Letterboxd or Wikipedia or whatever, they don't necessarily present themselves to you, obviously. So we. I want to kind of describe, I guess, what they are at their essentials. The CATC is a series of, I guess you could. I mean, they're basically documentaries, but they're non narrative, nonverbal documentaries. There's nobody talking to the camera, no footage of people having clearly comprehensible interactions. It's essentially like all B roll footage. Basically. [00:04:13] Speaker A: It's. [00:04:14] Speaker B: It's. You. You could liken it to, you know, a Nat Geo Project or something like that, just because it's. It's. These are comprised of footage from all over the world, different parts of the world, people living their lives, the hustle and bustle, the natural world. Kind of all encompassing across the three of them. And they deal with, you know, the development of human civilization, the rapid advancement of technology and its. Its pitfalls and, you know, just the ways. I think there. There's a lot of change theming and. And evolution theming in these films. And they were all produced and directed by a guy named Godfrey Reggio. Yes. Who is a. I mean, he's been working since the 70s, I think, and is still working today. And all three notably are also scored by composer Philip Glass. So these three films mark, you know, kind of their major collaborations together. They have collaborated a couple other times, but these three are kind of their essence as collaborators because Philip Glass score is just as fundamental to the effect of these films as Reggio's editing and the footage that they gathered for the film. So yes, it's an interesting sort of play. All three of these are an interesting play of imagery and music melded into one to tell a story about us. Specifically Logan and Andy. [00:05:57] Speaker A: Yeah, specifically us. Logan, Katsi. Andy Katsi. It's funny too, because it's like, with the names which don't work, do not try to learn how to spell these immediately. It takes a while, believe me. My brain had to realize just. I literally would say under my breath when we were talking about this trilogy, just cognac, Konya'sqatsi, Boikatsi, tsikoiqatsi. Because again, it's like. What's so interesting about these three films too, is that while there is a 20 year gap between the first and third of these films, the final film in this trilogy, all three of these films basically pertain to two specific things, and that is humanity and technology. And usually the relationship of those in the first film is usually more about, like, you know, how our relationship with evolution, evolving technology has led to our relationship with nature being changed irreparably in a way that, like, where do we go from here? How do we come back from what we have done to nature in our land and the world itself. [00:07:09] Speaker B: Yeah. There's an overhanging kind of ominousness to all three of these where it's clear that Reggio is not, like, thrilled with how we have let our pursuit of advancing technology kind of guide us throughout the generations. But it's not entirely doom and gloom either, I think, especially these first two. [00:07:34] Speaker A: I think Poikatsi is probably the most uplifting to a degree. It doesn't end on a very uplifting note, but I feel like in terms. [00:07:43] Speaker B: Of, none of these do. [00:07:44] Speaker A: No, because what's funny is, even though the first Koya's Katsi is about our relationship with nature and technology and how one is clearly more prevalent in our lives than the other at times, even though both should be kind of an equal harmony with each other, Koya's Kazi doesn't feel like you see a lot of people. There are segments of the film where you get portraits, you're watching people walk around. I mean, the first, I believe all three of these films basically took at most a decade in terms of shooting, cutting together and getting a bunch of footage. Like, even though Reggio is the director, there are plenty of different cinematographers and different producers and ads. And I think even in the first film, because the first film is presented by Francis Ford Coppola, who really wanted to use his name to help push the first film. I believe some of the shots in the end of the film are also just brought from him. [00:08:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:40] Speaker A: So there's like. There's stuff in there that is, like, it's a collaboration in a sense. While Reggio is kind of the ones just conducting with glass to the end point in terms of what they want this all to mean. Thesis wise and power is a film basically has, I would say the most people out of all three of these in terms of what they're following, because they're basically following. How does Western civilizations relationship with technology, how does western cultures take on just completely enveloping itself in technology, affect the rest of the world? And how those cultures end up changing in a way that you can tell is also slowly kind of irreparable in a way that is they are aware of it, but also I think, very subtly not aware at the time. What's interesting about these movies too, especially the first two, is the fact that these films were made in 82 and 88. When I feel like the. The conversations they are having here are revolving around 80s technology. [00:09:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:46] Speaker A: And how much shit has changed even when you go from 82 to 2002. [00:09:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:52] Speaker A: The huge shift in that kind of ridiculous, on that kind of like plane in terms of discussing technology. I mean, hell, from 80 to now. [00:10:02] Speaker B: Is like, yeah, yeah. [00:10:04] Speaker A: It feels just ridiculous to watch this film and feel like it still is relevant today because it should just feel dated as shit. But it doesn't. Because the conversations the film is having without having, you know, actors or, you know, interviews or any kind of dialogue, besides, the only dialogue you really get are in certain aspects of code. And Konoscatsi is like them, you know, chanting the. Chanting the title of the film. [00:10:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:37] Speaker A: As well as there are certain segments where apparently they're speaking in the Hopi language at the very end of the film. It says what each kind of segment is supposed to mean in those segments, of course, you know, correlate, like, correlate with what they're being shown. Like there's one. There's one line that is about like a. A torch of fire that falls from the sky and it's going to lead to the end of the world, which is hell, the first film ends in a sense. Here's the thing about these films too, is that in terms of spoilers, we can spoil all three of these films pretty vividly. And it doesn't really take away from the experience. Because the thing that's so kind of interesting about these movies is that in my opinion, from watching these films, we both are watching these films for the very first time and we watch them separately. We kind of accidentally did two different methods to watch these movies. Andy gave himself a month to basically watch all three of these movies. [00:11:36] Speaker B: A couple weeks. [00:11:37] Speaker A: Well, it felt Like a month, the way that you're talking about it. I did three days. I did a film a day. And I think at a certain point when I watched the first film, because he basically was like, you could take some time after that first film if you want to. Because Andy said he preferred having. Here's the thing that shows how much Kianosqatsi, like, affected Andy. Andy has never given me notes on how to watch something like, as long as we have done this show or have we've known each other as friends, we've always been like, yeah, I've kind of seen the. Like, maybe this might be the best way. He outright just said to me, listen, I think you probably would want some breathing room between both films. And I'm like, he never gives me notes like this. If I had to watch. I'm like, very curious now. And so going into Kaganis Kazi, it was just like, I understand that. But at the same time, there was a part of my brain that was like one half was like, yeah, I could probably. I could even take a week just dissecting this. However, this first film is so masterful from top to bottom. I almost got a bit of a art high. [00:12:44] Speaker B: You were like, oh, I need to keep going. [00:12:46] Speaker A: I kind of just want to pound through these other two and see where it goes. Especially this only will, you know, be more of a for, but I guess, you know, a foreboding nature in terms of how we talk about the later films. He doesn't talk about the other two films with me the same way he did with that first one. I mean, he didn't hate the second one, but that third film, it's going to be very fun to talk about because it is. It is very. Was very fascinating to watch that first film and have an experience that I've never had with a movie before. Like, it. I like, in my head, after watching all three of these films, I think the perfect way to watch these films is, sadly, a way that none of us will probably be able to do unless it's Under a Blue Moon, which is basically, if you can watch these films live with an orchestra, oh, that would be cool. That would be like top 10 best experience to see these movies. Because the scores here genuinely, when these films later on, especially the third film, when they falter, the score picks up the kind of. The slack of that. And. Which is not the case with Koyaanisqatsi, because the first film, it is a perfect meld of imagery, of pacing, of variety. In terms of the Shot composition, the cinematography, a lot of time lapses. In a sense that it's like, you can tell that they're like, oh, my God, we get the possibility to do time lapses, and they just commit to these beautiful time lapses that are just like. Like phenomenal. With Class's score, because this first film. [00:14:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:23] Speaker A: I could talk about the score for this entire film, for this entire episode, and then be like, this is how I feel about Power. This is how I feel about Nikoi. Here we go. That's how it is. Because, like, the first film score. I mean, the. The first film, I believe, is considered a cult classic for many reasons, but I think Glass's score is definitely the big one. Sure. Because of two specific compositions, which is Prophecies and Pruitt Ingo or Igno, which is basically, it's two tracks. There are about eight or nine tracks in giannisqatsi that are a total, I think, just under an hour or a little over an hour. And the film's about 90 minutes. So they do replay some of these tracks here and there, which doesn't matter, because these are some just phenomenal compositions. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:16] Speaker A: But these two tracks specifically are tracks that are so iconic, there's a good chance out of these three films, the most you know about these films are these two tracks. Because these two tracks have been used in Stranger Things. They've been used in fucking Gilmore Girls. There's, like. There have been. There have been tracks in Kihana'sqatsi that have been used in so many different television shows. Parody, as well as just referential. But, like, we've even talked about a film on this podcast years ago, when we first started that have these tracks. And I swear to God, I remember you telling me it came from this movie, which is, of course, when we talked about Snyder's Watchmen. [00:15:57] Speaker B: All right. [00:15:58] Speaker A: Because my favorite segment in Watchmen is Dr. Manhattan's origin, and Dr. Manhattan's origin uses Philip Glass's Prophecies and Pruding know. And it is the two compositions that are not made by the original composer. And it's also. They use those tracks for the Watchmen advertisement, like advertising. Like, they used it for the trailers, and it was like this insane. Like, I put it in my litter box review. I think one of the best decisions Snyder ever made in his career was to get the licensing for those two tracks for Watchmen, because that scene is one of the best scenes he's ever done. And I think a lot of that has to do with using those tracks. And they're Just. It is the type of music, the first film's music is this energy that is. It frightens you but also excites you. It gives you this overwhelming feeling of how gorgeous our world is. Especially like, at the. At the. Like, at the height of. Just, like. The film kind of feels like it is telling the story of the Earth. [00:17:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. [00:17:07] Speaker A: And it, like, basically, when It's. The first 30 minutes, is kind of telling in its own interpretation. Life unabashed without any kind of huge. [00:17:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Unadulterated nature. There's a lot of, like, natural environments. In the early part of the film. [00:17:26] Speaker A: I believe they shoot in the four corners kind of. [00:17:28] Speaker B: Yeah. American Southwest. [00:17:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And there's just this beautiful thing. It's like. It feels like. It feels like you're in a crowded room and you feel, like, alone. Like, you feel like you can look up. And like, there are shots where buildings look way too high. There are shots where you feel like you are just an ant on just. You're just a speck of the universe because of these tracks. Just really. And I will make it clear, we were both sober when we watched these movies, and it made you just have this energy of, like, you're. You sound like you're listening to something you're not supposed to hear. Like something that was unearthed. [00:18:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:08] Speaker A: Like, it's as old as the world itself. [00:18:11] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a real. [00:18:13] Speaker A: It's an old soul piece. [00:18:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:15] Speaker A: It was made for this movie. [00:18:17] Speaker B: It's a real kind of God's Eye experience, the way that these images are presented. And also with Glass's score, and his score is, like you said, it's kind of scary and exciting and beautiful. And it's also. It's kind of all encompassing. It's like. It's just teeming with energy. I mean, the rapidity of each piece and the. You know, this is gonna sound stupid, but, like, just the sheer, like, number of notes being played at any given time, just like. You know, it's all over the place. It's from. Frenetic but harmonious. You know, it's like water rushing through a stream. It's like a jungle full of birds chirping all at the same time. It's. You know, it's. I kind of reminded of. I think it was when he made Eighth Grade. Bo Burnham described Enya's music as the sound of the Internet because he used a lot like her music in the film. And the film's a lot about social media and stuff like that. And this. That's kind of how I feel about Glass's score in this, except not about the Internet, just about life like this. The score just sounds like life. This sounds like the natural world. And then humanity kind of imbuing the natural world with its own influence. It feels like technology, but it also feels like the harmony of nature all at once. It's just this kind of rapid up and down, back and forth kind of roller coaster ride. [00:20:05] Speaker A: And what I think too, makes these movies at their best, even the weakest one, so profound and engaging and interesting is that at a certain point, like Reggio and Glass are not trying to tell you how to feel Reggio, specifically, like Reggio is not trying to. He has an, of course, a thesis and an idea as to what these films are supposed to represent to him. But I think a lot of times he's even said at times that, like, he just wants. He wants people to take whatever they want from it. And if they have a different interpretation of it, he's okay with that. He just wants someone to really take it in. And even at one point, because there's also this energy of, like, if you watch these movies, you might wonder, does Riccio hate technology? And the answer is he doesn't. I think one of the craziest things, I think one of the coolest things I think, and I don't know where this is, so hopefully this is genuinely from him. But I just saw a random quote, probably Wikipedia or just a random conversation thing, talking about him. But at one point I think he says that at a certain point, we are not at a point in a civilization standard that we can just get rid of technology. Technology is synonymous with breathing with us. It'll never go away. It is that important to us. And even talks about how technology includes, like, a clay pot at the very beginning of this movie, it kind of starts and you kind of just see pots in. And you see like very early kind of drawings, like kind of like cave painting, kind of energy of just like what early technology was to us when we would talk about technology, when we were very burgeoning early on in our lifespan. And the film ends with that same kind, with that same. I think it's from a museum, those pieces. And I think those were Coppola's version, like, notes on what he wanted to kind of put into the piece. But, like, it ends with that same style, but with humans instead, with people. And I think the movie does a great job of showing that. It's less about someone saying that, you know, technology is bad and you should feel Bad that it's becoming more a part of our lives every day. It's more just like, I think Andy says, like a God's eye view of, like, how much technology is burgeoning, especially in the 80s. Like. Yeah, like, it makes sense as to why the 80s is, like a perfect time to kind of have this conversation. Because, like, technology in the 70s is nowhere near the same as technology in the 80s, because it's already how it is, decade by decade. But, like the 80s, the boom is massive. Especially when you watch Powakatse, because when they talk about technology and Powakatsi and they show how much it kind of like Western culture is kind of imprinted on other countries outside of this US it is wild and fascinating to see just how much that movie shows the countries and how much they evolve or just change over time using what they see on television, which is. I wanted to bring up. One of the funniest things about these movies is since these movies don't have interviews or characters or even just kind of specific people that are prominent, forced to follow throughout the movie. The cast list for this are hilarious because each film is just using, like, stock footage. [00:23:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:23:29] Speaker A: The first film with Giannis Katsi, the. The top billing person is Ed Asner. [00:23:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:36] Speaker A: Because he's on a tell. There's a television. I think it's like Ed Asner and Dick Cavett are two of the highest. Like, because they're on archive, there's a whole section with television and they show all the different TV shows and whatnot. Howie is like Christie Brinkley, David Brinkley, Pope John Paul ii, Dan Rather. But my favorite is Nikoiqatsi. That's why I'm bringing this up, because Nikoiqatsi, I believe, is Julia Louis Dreyfus, Elton John, Madonna and Adolf Hitler are like the top four to five. It's so funny because it's. Again, it's all archive footage. But it's just funny how, like, since IMDb doesn't know what to do with films that are musical documentaries with no interviews. It's. It's funny how it. Yeah, it's funny how even like something like that, it's like it really is hard to put these films in a camp that feels like musical documentary doesn't even feel fully accurate, even though it kind of fits all the boxes in terms of just like. It is literally a composer making original music for this director who is just putting these. This collage basically together and editing the transitions and really just. [00:24:52] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's. It's kind of more like experiential art than it is like how we, you know, typically think of like a movie. [00:25:04] Speaker A: Yes. [00:25:04] Speaker B: You know, a movie usually has, you know, a story and characters and, you know, this does kind of have a beginning and a middle and an end, but it's more, you know, you're really just experiencing imagery and music and you are putting. You are applying meaning to that based on, you know, the composition of those two things and the timing. You know, the editing is also key and the placement of these shots and the speed at which the music moves and things like that. [00:25:38] Speaker A: There's even like an accurate feeling that the way to rewatch these movies is immediately after you watch, like you finish the first time, there's this energy of like a. Like a cycle that by the time, especially with Koyaanisqatsi, when it ends, it feels like you are now back all the way around. [00:25:54] Speaker B: Yeah, well, the. [00:25:55] Speaker A: Where you are. [00:25:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Kayannisqatsi especially has that kind of bookend where it opens and closes with the same juxtaposition of images. Yeah. [00:26:04] Speaker A: And it feels like the sense of like an infinite. Like you could constantly watch it and feel like it just has this. Like it's. It's showing how as like a civilization, it's always going to go back around. [00:26:14] Speaker B: Yeah. It's the inevitability of advancement and civilization. [00:26:19] Speaker A: Yeah. It's interesting about Yakozi is that it is the first 30 is basically the world. Basically what was the world before. Technology in the 70s and 80s kind of burgeoned and kind of boomed and uses in. What I think is phenomenal is the film uses the time lapse feature to kind of have this fantastic thing about how the monuments and the landscapes they use never change. But of course, the clouds are constantly rapidly going, which is showing just how much time is passing. And yet nature is there. Nature is definable by the fact that it is all powerful in its own way and how it's structured and how it's unique and how no matter rain, sleet, shine, it'll be there. [00:27:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:10] Speaker A: And then the next 30 minutes is showing how even though there are aspects that we cannot take away from nature, we will contaminate what we can in certain aspects and we will take and build because of how technology consumes. [00:27:27] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:27:28] Speaker A: Consumes like less. So not even just the land, but also how it consumes our time, our brain power, almost our humanity in a sense. Because like, there's one section towards the end of the movie where I believe we're at a NASDAQ or Wall street or just somewhere like it. Just, like, it's shot through a window, and you can't tell how many people are in that fucking room. But, you know, it all has something to do with the technology around them. They're focused on screens. They're focused on lights. [00:27:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it is the stock exchange or something. And it's also, like a double exposure, where it's a lot of double exposure, slowly transitioning from a shot of that room full of people, like, during the workday to the same shot of the same room, but totally empty, and they're kind of ghosted over each other. And so you're, like, not sure who's actually there and who's not actually there. And, you know, it's a really. A lot of really stunning, like, I mean, moving images. And not in the sense of, like, movies are moving images. I mean, like, the images that are deeply moving just in their own. In and of themselves. [00:28:41] Speaker A: There's a transition and a shot or, like, there's a scene where there's a helicopter shot of just a huge, immense amount of cars. Like, at this point, the first 30 minutes, we are not getting. We're not getting carriages. We're not getting cavemen. We're not seeing how humanity is adapting to these environments. We're just getting the environments as they are untouched by human civilization to a degree. And then the next 30 minutes, there's, like, this fascinating moment where you get, like, probably the longest shot in the entire film, which is just watching a Boeing 747 just, like, take off or, like, kind of leave. There's. And it's a shot where it's clearly, in a way. And it feels like, to me, it's shot in a way where you're supposed to, like, look at this fucking plane and be like, this is a monster. What is the fuck is this? [00:29:35] Speaker B: How did we get this off the ground? [00:29:37] Speaker A: But we get closer and closer, and then you just realizing, yeah, this thing is massive. How many windows it has. How much is this? [00:29:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:45] Speaker A: And then it, like, cuts. There's a few other scenes, and then it cuts. And then you see that 747 is, like, very close to, like, a car park, a store, the freeway. It's like, holy shit. We've gone to a point which is no surprise. It's not like we're not aware of this, but it's always. It's interesting to watch it be, like, told to you, but not in a way where it's like someone is looking down being like, yeah, we're really cramped, aren't we? No, it is very much like. It's interesting how it's like, you spend so much time building up to, like, the mag just like, this massive airplane that just feels like the way that it's shot that is like, we shouldn't build things this big and robust. And then you hard cut a few scenes later to just like, holy shit. That thing's around, like, so many people. It's not like it's by itself. It's not this giant metal beast that it's by itself. It's by so many things. And then there's a shot of a helicopter going past, like, these. This colorful array of cars where it's like, in the first 30 minutes, you get this beautiful array of color, but natural color. So it's not like there's these crazy amount of, you know, blemishes of this color here. This color. It's just like, you get a beautiful blue river. You get the blue sky, you get the beautiful, like, just clay, like red clay, rock and the grass, the green of the moss. And then when you get to tech, like the civilization in the 80s, you get like, green car, yellow car, red car. All these different colors together that you're like, holy shit. [00:31:19] Speaker B: Barrage of color and stimulus. [00:31:22] Speaker A: And they're not, like, in there completely out of order. They're not like, all the red cars are here in this row, blue cars. It is just like, now we're seeing color in a way where it's like, yeah, there's no rhyme or reason to this color, but it's still beautiful. And then when you notice how many of these different cars, how many cars are there, all the different colors and whatnot, it hard cuts to that amount of cars. But in tanks, and then it starts to show tanks being used and being like. How this technology also leads to breeding more of a possibility to push towards war because of the war machine being so profound. In an era where, like, constantly pushing automobiles out and vehicles. And it is just like, there are moments like that where it's like, man, it's so simple. Like, out of these three films, this Koyasqatsi feels like out of the premises. This is the easiest one or, like, the broadest one. [00:32:22] Speaker B: It feels like. [00:32:24] Speaker A: And what's so great is because it's so broad. And when you read the description of the film, you're like, okay, nature, humanity, how technology affects both and the balance and how one is taking more from the other and such and such. It is so impressive how the movie commits to that idea and takes such really straightforward, obvious, kind of, like, parallels, but does it so well by proper, like this beautiful edit transition, as well as the music just, you know, flaring when it needs to. [00:33:00] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:00] Speaker A: And also when the tracks change and how it. Like, how important it is when a track changes, a different feeling and energy. And again, with Katsu, you have this score that is just. It feels so massive, yet it's so minimal in the best way. Like, it's this beautiful. Kind of. Like it doesn't feel like it's trying to be too flashy or have too many flares here and there. It just very feels like there's a confidence and a boom that goes with the confidence of nature itself. [00:33:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, there's a constant to it. Like. Like, you know, kind of the way life in the world moves all around us at all times. Like, the world is never standing still. No part of the world is ever really, you know, not doing anything. And that's kind of how the score feels. It's just constantly. Even if it's not fast or crazy or, you know, bombastic, it's always churning. [00:33:55] Speaker A: No, I just. I was glued to my seat. [00:33:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:58] Speaker A: And the lights were on. Like, I was watching this again. [00:34:03] Speaker B: Just what time of day were you watching this? [00:34:05] Speaker A: I was watching this, like, 9pm Okay. I, like, got off work. [00:34:09] Speaker B: Probably about when I was. [00:34:10] Speaker A: I was like. I got off work and I was like, I want to watch this. I need to watch it. And I just. There's. There is a world. We're watching this as you wake up. I did watch Poikatse and Nakoikatsi during the day, kind of like midday. Because I will say, like, these movies are very melodic at times. And if you watch them at night and you're not fully ready, there were times where it was like, oh, God, like, I didn't fully pass out, but I was like, oh, man, this is so nice. Oh, God, I need to focus. How bad is it? How bad is this technology you're showing? I mean. Yeah, but it just. When the movie ended. I've never had this happen with a movie before. When the movie ended, I felt like I couldn't. I couldn't move until the movie fully stopped. Like, I mean, credits were done. There's even, like a minute and a half for some reason. The version I was watching, there's a minute and a half of just black. [00:35:09] Speaker B: Screen after the credits. [00:35:10] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm just sitting there and I'm like, I don't know if I can go back into the real world yet until this like gets out of it. And then when it does, I'm like, this is so weird. [00:35:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I had a very similar experience. I was, I was, yeah. Deeply moved by this movie in a way that like, I'm just not very often in my life by movies as much as I love them. I mean, you saved yourself, I was. [00:35:38] Speaker A: About to say, because you hate movies. [00:35:39] Speaker B: Yeah. But my, my wife Emma came downstairs like maybe three minutes after the movie ended. And I was, I was just sitting on the couch, like in stillness, just kind of like marinating in the experience that I just had. And Emma walked in and she goes, what's wrong? And I was like. Because I clearly had a look on my face of like, I don't know if I looked sad or broken or hurt or something, but it was a. It was kind of an all encompassing feeling. But I do think melancholy was like a strong current in it because there is an overwhelming feeling of like, you know, there's kind of nothing, nothing we can do about it. Like this is part of who we are and this is the way it is and the way it's always going to be and always was going to be. And it's not all bad, but you know, we've it to some extent, we have, we've made our bed and now we're laying in it. [00:36:43] Speaker A: Because the film doesn't end with the Challenger explosion, but it does end with a test to shoot a rocket into space. Is it the challenge? [00:36:52] Speaker B: It's the Challenger. [00:36:53] Speaker A: Is it the Challenger? My brain just was like, wait, is this. I think I've seen the explosion so many times. I was just making sure it wasn't just. I'm automatically thinking, but ending on the Challenger explosion. I mean, but just ending on. The fact is the first 30 minutes are kind of again, like the history of the world up until like when technology really takes over in a modern sense for the 80s. But even the way that the 80s, how they handle technology, it does feel. It's still pretty modern in terms of how it feels to us. And then the last 30 minutes has this energy almost of like. I don't have an answer for what will come next. All I can see is like as like Reggio and glass. Like all they can see is what they've seen so far, which is we are trying to advance, we are trying to keep going forward, but there are just some things we cannot control with how much we can try. And of course it ends with the last thing. I think you fully kind of See, is like, I guess a set piece per se, is the Challenger explosion. [00:37:56] Speaker B: Well, actually, you know, the hesitation in your voice made me double check and it's not. Actually the Challenger explosion looks remarkably like the Challenger explosion. Like the smoke trail and everything looks. [00:38:11] Speaker A: But the thing is, like, it is something where it's like. With a traumatic experience like that of like a shuttle. [00:38:16] Speaker B: I mean, that is. That isn't. Yeah, that is one of those events ingrained in kind of the modern consciousness, especially American consciousness. [00:38:24] Speaker A: But. But it's very American thing to have, like. Like in a technological sense, we have already sent somebody to the moon. Yeah, we can clearly do it again, but better, faster. We have the technology and then you see just a complete case of you can do everything you think is right, but at the same time, we don't fully understand what we are messing with. We understand it to a degree and we learn better as time goes on, as technology evolves, but we don't fully understand what we are wielding until we fuck up like that. [00:39:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Until it. [00:39:01] Speaker A: Until we really disastrous results. Yeah. And I think that's like. And it's like we've seen a shuttle explode. Not even just in the Challenger sense, but like in the movie, just we've seen a shuttle explode and even a modern sense with like SpaceX shit. Like, it's like you've seen this before, but like, it's so interesting to watch in a way where you don't have commentators, you don't have people giving their opinions on it. You don't have people being shocked or watching people be shocked by it. You are just your own thoughts. No one else is telling you how to feel. And you are like, how do you feel about the fact that this thing which is going up into space, which we have done before decades ago, is just not enough? And it's like, are there people in there? It's probably the first thing I thought in my head. And I was like, I don't know if this is a Challenger, but Arthur, is it? Like, what? And then your brain is just kind of like. Because to me, I ended the movie, I think a little bit with fear. Mainly because it was like I watched it in a house completely to myself, no roommates. Because that's the thing too is you have a wife and 800 cats. And you have four cats. Very sweet cats. I just met the youngest a few weeks ago on Sweetie. Not my godchild yet, but maybe someday. No Odin. But I am just sitting in my house and when the credits are rolling and the music's Playing once the credits are done, it's just silence and a black screen at 10:30, 11:00 clock at night. And I'm like, I had an experience that literally no one else in this house, I can tell, like they are not here. I don't know when they're gonna get back. And I don't know how to fully articulate that. How immersive. [00:40:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:56] Speaker A: And how insanely profound it was. Despite the fact that it's talking about things that in our, I mean, in our generation as well as younger generations have been constantly been told in different senses, like, technology bad, but we need technology, but bad. [00:41:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:15] Speaker A: And it's been told in different ways about like, how it could affect us and literally how it is changing. You know, there's conversation about parasocial relationships and how it changes our. Like literally seeing how our body structure is affected by looking down at our phones and how reliant we are on just like how having the conversation about Internet being like just something that is human necessity at this point to even exist in the modern age and just to watch a film in 82, understand that mentality without really thinking about, you know, where AI is gonna be or where, you know, phones are gonna be in our pockets at some point or just. [00:41:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:41:57] Speaker A: The fact that fucking Apple is gonna be making streaming shows in like 40 years, like, it's like there's this whole. This thing where it's like. It is funny how, like. Because this is something I didn't tell Andy yet, but like, this is. I think it was very fascinating when I was watching through the series, specifically Nikoikatsi. It's fascinating how Koyousqatsi feels so modern and feels so relevant 40 years later. And yet with Nekoiqatsu when we get to. It feels like it is 20 years too early with what it's talking about in terms of what it wants to discuss in terms of the idea. Because the Nekoikatsi is very much discussing globalized technology and also how that affects not only us as a society, but also how it affects violence and how we see violence in a day to day life. And man, that fucking movie does feel like the conversations it wants to have are way too early. It feels way too early in a way where it's for like I could see, because I can imagine if this is a film like if, like if Nikoi Katsi is a film where it's like, I could do this and release it in 02, but let's give it some time. Even if it's 08. I feel like in six years, it changes in a way. And, like, another thing is, like. Like, it's not even talking about. Barely talking about school shootings. Like, that's another thing about, like, this, like, and how technology affects, you know, mass shootings and how we perceive it and how we talk about things. And, like, Nikoi Katsi has this, like, it's hilarious. I think it's ironic. I think it's a better thing how, like, the oldest film in this trilogy feels so much more modern than the youngest film, which feels like it's a little too early and doesn't fully grasp as to what it wants to discuss. But before we get to Nicoikatsi, I do want to get a little bit of Love of Poikatse in there. Unless. Is there anything else you want to talk about with Koyana? [00:43:52] Speaker B: No. I mean, that's. Yeah, I think we've. [00:43:56] Speaker A: It's a covered. [00:43:57] Speaker B: It's. We've covered it as well as you can. Like, truthfully, it's a movie where the words just don't do it justice. [00:44:02] Speaker A: You need. [00:44:03] Speaker B: I would say you need to go watch this movie. Like, just. [00:44:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:07] Speaker B: Block out a night where you're not going to be doing or thinking about anything else. Watch this movie. Get taken away by it. Pick it apart. Let have your own experience. [00:44:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Let the compositions just drown in those compositions. The lights off. [00:44:22] Speaker B: Because again, if you need to get just like a smidge high, I think that's probably good. You know, I watched it sober. We both watched it sober. [00:44:29] Speaker A: But I have. I have sold one of our close friends and friends of the pod, Austin, that I was like. I was explaining to him how I felt about all three of these movies yesterday, and I was like, I will happily watch this with you. Let's get some cbd, some seltzer. [00:44:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:45] Speaker A: Fucking pop a few. And I'll tell you, I think I said. I think if we both were, like, a little bit inebriated, we would be crying by the end of it. I feel like it's that because, like, I was like, yeah, I'm getting emotional watching it sober. When I watch the first time. Be like, I just. I can't imagine if I was just like, just a little bit drunk or a little bit, like. [00:45:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:07] Speaker A: Just under the influence in a sense of, like, this. I mean, I think I put it again in my review for this, for Koyasu Kase, like, of the films both old and new I've seen this year, this is my favorite film. Like, this is just. It is insane. How relevant in a way that isn't preachy this film is even to this day. But also how immersive and how profound. And everything that it's doing is things that we are aware of, like that we've seen in plenty of other documentaries and other films. But like it is just the trifecta of cinematography, the direction and glass that are all just like kind of coming together in a sense that is like they took their time on this movie and you can feel it. And you know, that time was well worth it. [00:45:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:59] Speaker A: And it's interesting we talk, I mean, talk about the cinematography because the cinematographer of Chaos Catsi actually unfortunately doesn't show up for the other two films, but actually has two films of his own. [00:46:11] Speaker B: Yeah, he has his own kind of similar sort of duology where it's a non verbal kind of documentary film. [00:46:18] Speaker A: Baraka and Samsara. [00:46:20] Speaker B: Yeah. Which I really want to watch, I'll probably watch here soon. I thought about trying to like cram them in before this trilogy just for added, you know, context and stuff, but I was like, I think I'll probably just end up, you know, sort of overwhelming myself with similar experience. [00:46:38] Speaker A: You tried to sell it on me a little bit. Or like when we first talked about this trilogy was like, actually there are two other films we could watch. Maybe we should just watch the first one. I was like, yeah, that's fine. [00:46:48] Speaker B: I mean there. Ron Frick is the cinematographer's name who made Baraka and Samsara. [00:46:54] Speaker A: And you know, with Katsi there's that question of, well, Logan, Andy, you've just said that that film is a 10 out of 10. It's profound. It's the best film you've seen in a very long time. [00:47:06] Speaker B: Which means the other two are not. [00:47:07] Speaker A: Clearly there might be some issues with the other two. And to be honest, like, I think we might be on the same page with Polkatsi. Again, we haven't really talked much about the other two. [00:47:18] Speaker B: Maybe less than is typical. Like we've. That we've taught. Usually we talk a little bit about. [00:47:23] Speaker A: Because I think the more I was watching of each movie, the more I was excited to kind of hold and talk about it here. But with Polkatsi it was kind of like. But like the thing that's so, you know, that's great about having kind of like having that first film. It's like you don't really talk about it that much when it comes to trilogy. Maybe we have in the past when we talk about these other trilogies that kind of have this issue. But like when your best film is the first film and you. And like as a viewer you are aware that that's going to probably be the case, it does kind of leave a little bit less dread or even less kind of anticipation that the next film's gonna disappoint. So it makes you want to watch the next film and watch it as it is and hopefully just be like, I hope I just have a good time. And in my opinion, I think Pauqatsi is a really good follow up and clearly is aware that there's, you know, there's no universe where it's going to like fully capture and profound people the same way as Kayanis. But I love the film's dedication to people, to cultures that you don't see a lot of in that first film. And also the dedication to again having that energy that it's not preaching to you in a way that's condescending, but it is talking about certain things that we don't necessarily talk about as much or at least if we do talk about it, it's not in the way that it's being shown in the movie. Because there was a feeling I felt watching Polyakatsi that I. I don't know if you felt the same way. I have never been so aware of my whiteness until watching this movie. Not even because it is not even because of like the fact that there are, you know, non white. You're following, you're following like Indian culture. You're following a bunch of like non white culture. [00:49:17] Speaker B: Even that notably the Koyanisqatsi is shot almost entirely in la. The United States. Well, just the United States. Whereas Kawakatsi expands its scope to the world. [00:49:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:32] Speaker B: And is all over the place. [00:49:34] Speaker A: And it does. And again it follows the same format in the sense of Koya Katsu, where the first 30 minutes kind of feels like you are following these cultures in the traditional sense and seeing like their traditions, their architecture, kind of like how they are as like a community as well as family oriented, their tradition and like their holidays. And then in the midway mark, you are starting to see how in the modern age their introduction to Western culture's technology or Western culture's use of technology is introduced to them. And to be more specific about my whiteness in terms of just discussing the film is it is when there's a part in the movie where there's a huge montage where you are going from basically you are seeing that the cultures that we're watching are like the architecture is getting much bigger. You're seeing that roads are becoming more like what you see in the interstates in Koyanasqatsi. It is when it cuts to television, where after spending 30 to 35 minutes, maybe even 45 minutes, looking at just a diverse group of people living their lives in a way that is not very Western. [00:50:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:52] Speaker A: You see in the span of like 5 to 6 minutes, it is all American commercials. And it is just the whitest, palest faces. [00:51:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:02] Speaker A: That I've. That you've seen in this whole movie at this point. And then you're just like, oh, it's interesting just watching how, like, if you are getting. If they're showing the idea of how technology is being introduced to them and they're seeing this technology and they're not. And I've always, We've always been aware of this. Especially just like, just watching, you know, hearing people talk about media and here talking about like modern day media and what media needs going forward, especially with more diversity in general. But just seeing how like they. You are not seeing the cultures that you are seeing. Like, the cultures that you're seeing on screen are not at all the cultures you've been watching for the last 40 to 45 minutes. [00:51:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:42] Speaker A: And then it's been interesting how when they show all those kind of footage, then they cut to like, how American culture and how American advertising and television ultimately changes. You know, television in Japan or television in India or just like, I think there's also Chinese. And then after that, I swear to God. And this feels very, very like, intentional. Before we see those advertisements stuff, the color, just the color palette is just so vivid. A lot of red, a lot of brown, a lot of green. Just all these different colors that are just beautiful. There is definitely white there. But after we see those commercials, you start to notice just how much more the, The. The outfits feel very much like 80s. Like typical 80s outfits. [00:52:34] Speaker B: I mean, the first 30 or 45 minutes of the movie is almost entirely in like. [00:52:41] Speaker A: Yes. [00:52:41] Speaker B: Outdoor. I don't, I don't know. I don't know exactly what countries these were. These were shot in. So I can't say this definitively, but like kind of more what we associate with third world life. Very, you know, I guess primitive is a word. You know, like these are people who live in a much more traditional way. They live in a country that is not nearly as, you know, financially dominant as. As. Or technologically dominant as the United States or a lot of the Western powers are. And yeah, all of them are Brown. So for, like, the first 45 minutes of the film, the film's kind of like conditioning you into, you know, like, here's humanity. [00:53:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:29] Speaker B: And here's what they all look like. And here's the lives and the practices and the traditions they have. And then, yeah, hard cut to modern white Western civilization. It's a really jarring, like, whoa. Okay. [00:53:42] Speaker A: I don't usually eat my cereal this way. Like, that kind of situation. [00:53:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:46] Speaker A: And, yeah. Because it. Basically excited to double check myself. It's like you get shots in Brazil, you get shots in Africa, you get shots in Nepal. You get. You get the sense of how other cultures live and, like, what professions and how it is to, like, do a day's work versus different cultures as well as, like, right before we get the huge burst of, like, the boom of, like, technology being a part of these cultures, the conversation of also religion as well, where it's like, you know, the religion's much more diverse. But before you get more into, like, the Americanized, you know, Christianity or Catholicism and. But, like, after you see those commercials, it is interesting how much more, you know, white clothes people are wearing or the fact that there's a whole segment where there's clearly these new apartment buildings, and it's, like, the whitest apartment buildings I've ever seen. [00:54:38] Speaker B: Like, it's dark. [00:54:39] Speaker A: This interesting. Like, this energy of almost like white is seen as, like, you know, the. Like, new in a way, where it's like, white has always been a part of the color palettes of these cultures. But now it's like, since they're now getting, like, all these different types of television and, like, all these types of media from the west, it almost like. There's also a great example, too, of, like, later on, there's this great shot of an older person. I believe it's in India, but again, it's fuzzy because again, this film kind of similar to Kuyana's Katsu when it comes to its use of La Arizona, like, the Four Corners in New York. It kind of pops all over these places as the film goes on. So it's not just in one spot for 30 minutes and then this spot for 30. But there's a shot of an older generation, just this older person walking down a road in a very, I think, old school kind of, you know, outfit. And then behind them is a new generation, younger generation of, like, clearly kids in high school, same culture, but wearing, like, I'd say, very Americanized, very white, very short. Short, like, athletic gear. [00:55:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:54] Speaker A: That feels like the different change and, like, almost like there might be a bit of a gap generationally. And also it has this thing of showing something that isn't talked about, where it's like, before you see the use of technology kind of getting into. Being brought more into these cultures, there's this vibrance, there's very simplicity and also very. I would say, clean in a way that I think is very important. Because when you go past that and you see more of, like, when technology is being more integrated in these cultures, you start to notice there's a lot more trash. There's a lot more, like. It's clearly, like, a lot more waste, which is very American. It's very Western in that sense. And it even kind of ends, like. I think it starts and ends in, like, this mine in Brazil, which it ends with this guy, like, passing out of exhaustion and they're trying to get him out of there. And it's like. It's like this trash heap. It almost kind of feels like it's like a mine that very much a lot of trash there. And it is. It is very similar to Katsi in terms of it being, like, an ending where it's like, I don't really. We don't have an answer for this. This is just. [00:57:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it's the way that it is. [00:57:10] Speaker A: This is how life is. [00:57:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:11] Speaker A: Like, it's. This technology is helpful, but at the same time, a lot of the downsides this technology has for us is going to be downsides for them as well, and maybe even some unique downsides to them that we will never understand. And that's kind of what I meant in terms of just, like, you know, I guess white privilege is a better sense of the term. But it was just kind of very interesting to watch this film. But it's just like, you know, seeing so many people that don't look like me in, like, the first 30 to 45 minutes and just loving, really being enveloped in their culture and seeing, like, you know, hearing glasses, like. Because, again, like, Glass, I think, has a phenomenal score in this movie. I would argue, like, his best. My favorite part of it is, like, the one that kind of comes back and forth constantly. It's called Anthem. There's, like, three parts of this composition, but, yeah, Anthem usually is showing kind of like, the most optimistic, uplifting stuff. [00:58:08] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:58:09] Speaker A: Which is showing a lot of the celebration aspects and, like, the communal. Like, the communal aspect. And, like, Glass is just doing a phenomenal job. And Reggio, as a director really is very much just not. Is an observer, like, that's the most important part is there's no feeling like he is kind of perverting what we're seeing on screen. Like he literally is just like dropping in very much like Katsi and then just getting it. And I think what really is ends up being kind of the flaws of this one is it's not as tight, I think, thematically as the first film. [00:58:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree with that. [00:58:45] Speaker A: Using a lot of the same techniques that we've already seen now. Because of Koyanis Kanzi. [00:58:50] Speaker B: Yeah, it's using a lot of the same techniques and I think also running back over a lot of the same ideas of Koyanis Qatsi. Although, you know, just listening to you talk about it, I do almost feel like I need to rewatch it. Just because when I was watching it, the. The theme of the kind of parasitic way of life and as it pertains to West. How Western civilization kind of uses and affects and deteriorates a lot of these less powerful and less technologically advanced cultures around the world. I could obviously see that. I mean, the film is not subtle. None of these are subtle. No, not at all. But it didn't feel like it really, like, hit me at any one point, especially not like how you're describing with the. The TV and all the white people on screen and things. And so. [00:59:51] Speaker A: So the piece that Glass plays during that, I think it's called Video. It's Video Dream. That's the segment and it's showing, because I had to double check it is showing ads from us, Western Europe, Soviet Union and Japan. [01:00:05] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. [01:00:05] Speaker A: So it's like not even. Are you seeing white faces from America. You're also seeing white faces from the. [01:00:10] Speaker B: Uk all over Russia, using Asian faces, which are very different from, you know, African and. [01:00:16] Speaker A: Yes. [01:00:17] Speaker B: South American faces. [01:00:18] Speaker A: You're seeing how, like, all these different cultures are using technology in this way in advertising and how all those advertisements don't look like or even feel like what we've seen at that point. [01:00:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, especially the implication they're in of, like, the less technologically advanced brown people that we're seeing are kind of the ones like, making the sausage for all of these more powerful countries, you know, to cultures to then utilize into their. Their newer technologies and entertainment and media and things like that. But. But yeah, basically. I mean, I agree with you in that this feels less thematically sound. I mean, the core idea is obviously there, but I think there's something. There's something to this movie where it feels like Reggio is more. I Don't think complacent is the right word. But he's more content to kind of linger on very similar imagery that is communicating the same kind of idea. I can see that for a longer length of time. You know, I mean, the first 45 minutes of the film. Not that there aren't great bits in there, but it does feel like there's a lot of kind of repeating the same notions over and over. And that kind of carries throughout the film. And then it'll. That'll do this. His sort of hard cut thing. But aside from maybe that, like, white man on TV jump, it doesn't. Those hard cuts don't necessarily feel. At least I wasn't able to decipher as much meaning from them as when he uses that technique in Koyanis Qatsi. It feels sometimes more like he's lingering on an idea for a really long time and then he's like, oh, new idea, let's move to something else. Whereas Koyanis Kazi kind of always feels like it's. It's that k. That harmonious chaos where it's kind of like, yeah, we're bouncing around a lot, but all of this feeds the larger hole. And I did feel like power. Cotsy struggled a little bit to, like, unify itself across the whole thing. [01:02:42] Speaker A: Oh, I'd agree with that. Because again, I do think another aspect could be the fact that just like Reggio being an American, born and raised in America, and, you know, clearly with Konya's Qatsi, there is something that it is his, it is his home that he's kind of observing and seeing in real time. Well, as with Palakazi, he is a third person observer. He is an observer that is like seeing this probably for the first time, or someone who is, like, trying to convey the fact that it's like there is an. There is an importance to what people are watching or are consuming in our. You know, the technology we are using and how it is making things easier, but also can make things more. There are consequences to making things easier. And I. I think there's just. There's a fascinating thing because it was. It was. Again, it is. It is like the advertisement stuff, but it also is. The fact is, like, we're not seeing. Seeing those advertisements were also through a television screen. And there's the static, bright, fluorescent nature of it that we haven't seen anything kind of convey that before. And so it's like. It's the mix of seeing so many different people on screen that do not look like the cultures we have seen so far, as well as the fact that we're seeing this on a television, which is something we really haven't seen at this point in the film. And I also think it just, it shows. And I think the most interesting stuff is when Regio is really showing the subtleties of how he is not saying that, like these advertisements are changing these cultures in a way where it's like they are not these cultures anymore. It's more just like now these cultures are almost taking aspects of this unknowingly or are realizing that. What's interesting is the first 40 to 45 minutes we're seeing cultures that don't feel like they're having anything that they're trying to prove to one another. [01:04:30] Speaker B: They're just, they just exist. They exist. [01:04:32] Speaker A: They're having a community. But with, you know, classic Western advertising is constantly like proving that you're better than somebody else or proving that you have something that someone else might not have. [01:04:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:43] Speaker A: And it is very noticeable after you see the video dreams aspect that they start showing footage of people clearly are more aware of themselves in a sense of like, oh, am I perceiving my. Am I, Is my perception the way that I see myself? [01:05:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:02] Speaker A: Beforehand you're like. Because there's really like. Before they do the video dreams aspect, there is this whole thing of like, you see this whole segment, I think, of India where it's like, it is crowded, bumper to bumper of bikes, cars, people walking the streets. No one really isn't like giving a shit because like they're all constantly aware of where everything is and they're just like confident and just going into the vibe and then post video dreams like that, that aspect you're starting to see different cultures and how they're perceiving. And I think there's some shots in India we start seeing people wear very flashy clothing, very different clothing than what you're seeing before. Because it's like, that's probably considered cool at that time. And you're bragging and you're showing off and then you're seeing people who, like in the earlier stuff where you're seeing, you know, people in traffic and walking around where they're like, they're walking with a purpose and they don't know when it's going to do. Like now you're seeing people who are like, almost cautious to do that same stuff. [01:05:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:59] Speaker A: Because of just like now perception is in a different. Now you're seeing yourself in a different way because you're now seeing different, like you're seeing non. Like, things that are not in your culture consistently. And now you're seeing how other worlds kind of deal with that. And how, like, how do I. How do I adapt to that? Whether you mean to or not. Like, I think that's like, the biggest thing with Palakatsi is seeing how cultures are not saying, like, we need to be more like the Americans, like the Japanese or like the Russians or the Brits, or, like, they're not saying anything like that, but they're clearly like, because we are so interconnected now more than ever, especially in the 80s. God, again, think about a movie like this in the fucking now. It's like, even more connected than we were back then, but now having more of a connection then. It is like you are now seeing that there are things that are now being inferred or taken from cultures that are not even on the same continent. And it's interesting to see how those things are kind of fun and it's not seen as good or bad. It is just interesting. And I think that's the best stuff that Reggio does is really showing how this is interesting. How I've noticed how much this has kind of changed from this aspect to this now that I've seen, and how much culture is aware of worldwide culture in that kind of sense. [01:07:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:07:24] Speaker A: No, I really enjoyed Papakatsi. And I think in terms of, like, when you have as good of a first film as you do Koyazqatsi, like, it's. I'm just glad the second film, I'm just like, okay, this is. I'm seeing, like, a lot of the same sparks that's in this first film, and I'm really enjoying it. But now what is becoming. The flaw is that when I'm watching the first film and I'm kind of anticipating something happening, and then it does. But it does happen in a way that is shocking or like, oh, that hit me in a way I wasn't expecting. Now I'm watching Palakazi being like, now this is Khanakaze. This is the part where they cut to the fact that now things are going to change really fast. And guess what happens? Things change really fast. [01:08:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And now you're seeing, like, it's playing a similar formula. [01:08:13] Speaker A: Yes. And again, it's a formula that clearly is perfected in that first film. And why not give it a try again? And then more focus on more people. More, you know, focus of, you know, iconography involving the people around it and the cultures and community and how communities can evolve and change depending on who you're around or what you do and. And how. That doesn't mean it's like, it's not assimilation, but it is integration very subtly, in a way that I think is very fascinating and I think is done in a way that thankfully feels very observant without being, you know, condescending. [01:08:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:56] Speaker A: And it has that energy that when you get to the end of that, you could probably be like, well, what else would you do in terms of discussing technology and humanity, the digital age? Because at this point, you have a Qazi film that depicts the beginning of a new decade, and then you have a Qazi film that is ending the end of the 80s, I believe, even before the fucking Berlin Wall falls. So you have a good Compass of the 80s through these films in the sense of the conversation of what humanity and technology and even nature and. And community all kind of focus on each other and how it can affect, how it can affect and evolve and even, like, change in a sense that you might not even understand, might even notice until it's too late. So you're thinking, what more could you do with that? And then there is. The answer is 14 years later, we get the third film in this trilogy, Nakoikatsi, which I believe is. Is it. What is the. The. The phrase supposed to be? Because power, Katsi is like life in translation. Life in transition. Yes. [01:10:12] Speaker B: Life of. Life at war. [01:10:14] Speaker A: Life of war, I think life at war. Yeah. [01:10:17] Speaker B: Like it's a life of killing each other. [01:10:20] Speaker A: Yes. [01:10:20] Speaker B: Is also another. Yeah. [01:10:21] Speaker A: Yes. So. So now that Reggio has two films under his belt, that while the first one is iconic and the second one, I think, definitely has love there. Clearly, when this guy is getting back together with Philip Glass, it is going to be something that people want to pay attention to and definitely give a chance, because these two, when they come together at this point, even if it's not as good as the last film, it is at least interesting. And then we really put that to the test with the last film in our trilogy, the Koiqatsi, which Francis IV Coppola presented and was like, I believe, kind of like an EP to the first film. Coppola and George Lucas presented the second film. And then interesting enough, we don't have either one of them. On this third film, we have Steven Soderbergh, who. Soderbergh, I believe, also is in the film for a brief moment. He's like a. It's not like he talks in the film, but he's. He's just like A footage in footage. And I believe also I think he helps with Visitors. I think he's an EP on Visitors, which is. Which is a film. Which is the last film that Reggio does. One of the last. [01:11:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And then that glass returned for. [01:11:37] Speaker A: Yes. And Nikoi Cotsi is discussing globalized technology and its relationship with not only us, but with how we perceive violence and how we see and how violence is shown to us as well as how we deal with violence in the start of the 21st century. This is the one I think, in a sense was the most interested I was gonna talk to Andy about in terms of like, I was most interested in having this conversation because like I said earlier when Andy was telling me about the Qadsi films, as he was going through them faster than like going through them before I was. He wouldn't stop talking about Keanu's Qadsi. He briefly mentioned how he kind of felt about Palakatsi. And then when he got to Nikolaikatsi, he said, I believe you said Nikoi Katsi is something else or like it is. [01:12:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I think I said something else. Literally what I said. [01:12:42] Speaker A: And I was like, oh, that might be. Oh, that's gonna be. And honestly. [01:12:47] Speaker B: And that. Yeah, that could be interpreted in multiple ways. There's something else. [01:12:51] Speaker A: But what I as knowing Andy, the way that I know him, I go, oh, I gotta see how this one doesn't go. This one is definitely gonna have some issues. This is how he describes it. And when we get into it, to be honest, I think I really enjoyed the opening of the movie. I enjoy the credit, like the screen crawl kind of like when it brings into the title again, each title that like Tower of Babel. [01:13:22] Speaker B: Yeah, the Tower of Babel. And the weird like kind of 3D pop up book image of the old ruined building. [01:13:31] Speaker A: I was like, we are back. I'm excited to see where this is going. And then at a certain point there is a cut very early on in the film, I think right after the title card hits, where we get some truly chunky, rough hackers esque 90s vibe to the unteenth degree CGI. [01:14:01] Speaker B: There's a. Yeah, this film. Reggio makes a distinctive choice with Nakoiqatsi to kind of for the most part forego his use of kind of plain, unadulterated footage of the world, instead opting primarily for computer generated imagery and heavily altered photography. Yes, there is barely anything in this film that you could call an unadulterated photograph. You know, it's. There's a Lot of. [01:14:41] Speaker A: I hope you like inverted photography. [01:14:43] Speaker B: Inverted colors. Yes. There's a lot of. You were kind of describing it. It's like how 90s and early 2000s movies and TV would visualize the Internet. Like whenever a character was like going into the Internet or you know, entering a video game or something. You know, matrix numbers and streams of blue light and black backgrounds and things floating through space and glitching and things like that. There's a lot of that in this. And I think unfortunately it ends up feeling a lot of like. Like a lot of the imagery here is kind of like baked in cliche. [01:15:26] Speaker A: It feels like. It feels like rejects for the Lawnmower man that didn't make it. [01:15:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:32] Speaker A: Like it feels like the opening to like reboot. [01:15:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:35] Speaker A: Or like the money for nothing. Like animation in the 80s. Like it has this like. And again I'm in a sense where I'm watching this and I'm going, oh, I know Andy hated this. I know this is. Because again I think honestly that stuff, while it's like, yep, this dates this shit real hard. I think the things that really got me with this movie because we really haven't talked about it much with this but like it is involved. I believe with all three of these films there are. There are moments where stock footage and stock images are used for these movies. [01:16:07] Speaker B: Yeah. It's not all original photography and it's. [01:16:10] Speaker A: Totally fine because especially if it helps convey. And of course is whoever is getting the stock if you are. If they are paying for the stock footage and they're giving the credit that you know, they deserve. But I will say a lot of the stock footage and stock effects that are used in the Koikatsi feel like plugins for the editing software that they were using for it. [01:16:32] Speaker B: Plugins you've probably seen before. [01:16:34] Speaker A: Uh huh. There's. There is like. It feels like a plugin where CGI money is just falling. There's. This is clearly not an add in plugin but like it very much had the same energy and I was not meant to be comical, but it kind of was where there is. It's supposed to convey like different religions across the world and all the evolution of religion as well as the religion now becoming. Now currencies becoming religion and stuff like that. So we're getting like different dollar signs and whatnot. And as these different symbols and iconography is coming through, you can see in the far. At the very end, like at the very. Supposed to be the back, the background of the shot which is all simulated. You Just see like a swastika pop in for a second and then a swastikas in the mid ground and then a swastika is right in front of your face. And then I'm like, I get it. Like, it's the hardest thing to say about Nikoi Gotzi is, in my opinion, like, again, if any of these films, even if Nikolai Katsi was like, I could see Philip Glass perform this film live, I'm fucking there. Even though I don't really like Nikoiqatsi, I don't hate Nikoiqatsi, I don't really like it. I think I appreciate what Glass is doing. And I will also say there are moments in this movie where I go, God, I really like what Reggio and the cinematographers are doing here. It's cooking in a way that I wish, you know, the other 80% of the fucking film cooked. But there's a segment in the film where it's dealing with technology and our bodies and how there's this kind of this interesting idea of the fact that it's like, you know, for centuries we had no idea fully what was in our bodies besides the people that were like cutting open cadavers and writing down what spleens are, what kidneys are, what our intestines, our heart and whatnot. And then with the use of just modern technology, it is like, just like it feels like a few clicks in comparison where you can see all your bones, all your organs. You now are being people. People with lives and personalities are now being brought down to their bare bones, literally. And it has like this interesting idea of, like, how does that affect how we see ourselves in terms of like, is there kind of like an existential crisis of just being like, I now I know what's inside. Like, there's no mystique to me anymore because now I can see every part of myself that is imperfect or, you know, that I didn't realize, I never wanted to see, but I have seen. And what's interesting is he uses that as a segue to talk about how globe technology like that could also be seen as a way to be used to perfect our bodies, particularly in a competitive sports sense. And then we see these phenomenal. Again, I wish most the movie was like this. But like, we see this wonderful, like just slow motion footage of just like speed skaters work, pole vaulters work just like sprinters and just seeing their muscles move and just seeing how they're using their bodies at optimum, like at optimal levels, watching someone pole vault in slow motion. And see, like. Like, nearly, like a centimeter off from just hitting the pole off is genuinely, like, God, I knew it could get that close. But it's really fun to watch in slow motion when they're that close. And, like, the speed skater part was the one that really got to me because it's just. It was so much fun watching just, like, seeing how, like, just how this person. How the muscles were moving even when the body wasn't moving with, like, it just seen how much the, like, clenching can, like, trying to stay balanced and this energy of just, like is. And one of the. I think the issues with the film is that this moment, while it's really cool, does feel segregated from, like, the rest. Like, all these feels disconnected from, like, each other in a sense that it's like, there are moments where, like, this segment I really vibed with and I really thought, like, I really. It was conveying what they wanted to. To me in a way. And I was like, I think that was. That worked well. And then, like, the next thing happened and I was like, I'm not as into this as I was. I was. This is fine. [01:21:07] Speaker B: Well, yeah, it's. It's a little bit. It feels a little bit like somebody gifted Reggio a, like, kind of rudimentary VFX or video editing software. And he was just playing around with all the tools in it. [01:21:24] Speaker A: Yes. [01:21:25] Speaker B: And then every once in a while, he, like, gets a really good idea and is like, oh, okay, I'll put all this footage together to communicate this idea. Okay, back to playing with the toys. Which, which. [01:21:33] Speaker A: Which curiously. Which one of those toys has the Nazi? Has the swastika built in? [01:21:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Windows Movie Maker had a Nazi. [01:21:45] Speaker A: It felt like a jaw seed. Like I was waiting for a shark to come at me. I didn't know what was going to happen. [01:21:51] Speaker B: But, yeah, there's a. There's a discordance to this movie that's not really present as much in the other two. Even. Even when I felt like, power, Katsi did not have quite the. The unified feeling of Koyanis Qatsi or the strong, you know, thematic impact of the editing quite. Quite as much. There's still clearly a unifying idea there that you're following through to the end. And even if you're not vibing with that, there's still a lot of really compelling, just gorgeous imagery on its own. The music is beautiful. [01:22:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:29] Speaker B: And Nikoya Katsi just kind of never really feels like it's coalescing at any point. Yes. Glass is still doing the Score. It's not bad. Like, Glass is still clearly having fun and trying different things. I don't know that any of it feels quite as memorable or as aligned with the imagery as it does in the other two. It feels a little bit more random. It kind of feels like Glass wrote a bunch of compositions and then Reggio, like, tried to put images to it instead of the other way around. [01:23:02] Speaker A: Again, I just. There's this energy here where it's like, I can see what you're trying to do and what you're seeing, but I'm telling you, if you give it another five years, I feel like you'll see something there that you're like, fuck, I could have gotten. [01:23:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:16] Speaker A: Like, I feel like Nikolai Coxi 40 years after chaos, Cotsy is. There's so much more to, like, dig into in a way that I feel like it would feel more. Less dissonant and more cohesive, because I think Glass's compositions in Nikoikatsi are still great, but, like, they do feel like they are holding up a lot of the segments and are very much feeling like they're just trying their best to work with it instead of. It really feel like it vibes well. [01:23:47] Speaker B: Right. [01:23:47] Speaker A: It's not. Yeah. This movie, the composition and the. The direction and the cinematography, while there are some phenomenal moments, and I even think that the inverted colors, I think, have some good purpose at times, there. [01:24:01] Speaker B: Are a few moments where that stuff really works. [01:24:04] Speaker A: I do feel like it's not like peanut butter and jelly. It doesn't. It doesn't mesh in a way where it feels so natural. [01:24:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:24:11] Speaker A: That it's. It's a. It's a bit. It's a bummer. There's a bit of a bummer aspect to it. [01:24:15] Speaker B: And unfortunately, a lot of the. Those, you know, highly digital techniques do end up feeling gimmicky. Yes. I think, because, you know, it's one thing. You know, it's the 21st century at this point. I get Reggio wanting to, like, try implementing new, you know, visual techniques and new technologies. You know, these trilogy is all about technology and what it does to us. And, you know, he. Even in the first two films, even though it is, you know, more grounded photography, he's still leveraging a modern technology to critique and analyze our use of modern technology. You know, there is a. Not a hypocrisy there, but a, you know, a leveraging of the object of your criticism. And so I understand wanting to take that a step further in the 21st century, into the digital age. All of these computer tricks and gizmos, there's absolutely a place for that. But unfortunately, like we've said, it just doesn't coalesce into kind of a singular message. And I think also, like, I could sit here and watch a Reggio movie that's thematically discordant and doesn't have a unified vision and just be happy with like beautiful imagery. [01:25:34] Speaker A: For an hour and a half we've gotten that. [01:25:36] Speaker B: Unfortunately there's not a lot of beautiful imagery. Like, this is, I'll say it, this is a fucking ugly movie. And part of that, part of that is because he's utilizing new Digital Technologies in 2002. Like, he is on the cutting edge. [01:25:51] Speaker A: Absolutely. Like, yeah, it's. [01:25:52] Speaker B: But unfortunately he's on the cutting edge and a lot of that stuff just doesn't hold up. [01:25:57] Speaker A: I would argue it's cutting edge for us. Like, yeah, if you're going out of the way of a software at the time. But like, like you even said you brought up stuff where it's like it's supposed to evoke the Matrix in a sense, some more sense. And the Matrix was three, like three to four years before this fucking movie. [01:26:15] Speaker B: Right, Right. It feels more like, more like bigger VFX budget. [01:26:19] Speaker A: Oh, that's the thing too is like, that is I think one of the biggest things for Nicole. Like these films do not have huge budgets and you show the Kyoto Katsi and with Pawaqatsu, you don't really need those big budgets. You can really convey profound moments with the budgets they have. But with that in mind, if you're going into Nikoiqatsi, like if you're creating it and you feel like you need a big FX budget, then take the fucking time to build that budget. Because my God, like, it is. Because there. I would agree with you that I feel like there are aspects of this movie that are just so much more noticeably uglier than the other ones because it is sandwiched between your, your first plugin you've ever used versus the second plugin you've ever used. And like, it's fascinating because when the film opens, like it opens up with something that is not. Is not. Photography is clearly just like it's probably built. You know, there is, there's a. There's a sense that maybe they did use like an editing software and like use that picture in a way that is like not exactly how it is. [01:27:23] Speaker B: Are you talking about the. That kind of pop up book that is genuinely interesting and even though it does look dated, it's still a compelling image. [01:27:32] Speaker A: Yes. [01:27:33] Speaker B: Like, but it kind of ends there. Like, there's not a lot like that throughout the movie. [01:27:38] Speaker A: It looks like cubics. It really just looks like. It looks like when it was like, this is gonna. This is gonna last forever because technology's never gonna get better. [01:27:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:49] Speaker A: And it's like, no, like, it's going to. [01:27:52] Speaker B: He's like, digital technology sucks. So here, watch 90 minutes of how much this technology sucks. [01:27:59] Speaker A: It's. But it's like, this technology is like. It's unfortunate because there's such. There's good. There's great shit sandwiched between some genuinely rough, bad animations in, like, CG here. That is just like, man, I understand. Like, this is the closest out of all these three films where I went, yeah, I get it. I fucking understand what you're trying to say. Money is the new religion. It's corroding so many people's souls. And globalized technology has made a bit of profit of that because now we just. You can make profits overseas and it's affecting other countries and you can invest in different dollar currencies. I get it. But the fact of the matter is, is that this is his third film discussing humans, technology. Like, humans relationship with technology. And it is kind of. It is in. Is the only film where I feel like I'm watching this going like, man, if he just knew where drones would be in, like, eight years, like, this would be filled with, like, drone attacks. This would be talking about Snowden. There's so much shit that happens in the span of, like, 10 years after this movie that you're just like, if he had just. [01:29:16] Speaker B: Yeah, if he had waited 10 years. [01:29:18] Speaker A: If you just waited until 2012, I'm telling you, those plugins would have been better. [01:29:22] Speaker B: Well, sure, it's interesting because obviously there were massive leaps in technology from 88 to 2002, but, you know, we have compressed the technological acceleration even since then. And so I think, yeah, it's a. It's a troubled line to walk of. Like, okay, if I'm going to make a movie all about this new digital age, when do I make it? Like, like, when do you. When is it good enough? Like, when or when is, you know, when is the technology insane enough to stop and make that movie? So I get it. Like, 2002 is the 21st century. That feels huge enough. Y2K was crazy. You know, like, it is. It's a fair time to make a movie about that. But it does feel like he could have made such a better movie. I agree with just more. More time. [01:30:22] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I. I think it is. Because again, it's like, when. When in 2002 does this come out? Because again, it's like, are we even a year into 9 11? Like after 9 11? Where, like, the implications of how much technology and surveillance and how many things. [01:30:41] Speaker B: Change post October 2002. So a little over a year. [01:30:45] Speaker A: A little over a year after 9 11. And like, the things that change that lead to governments perverting technology in a sense, to surveil people in the name of quote unquote, you know, country. [01:30:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:59] Speaker A: Like, that's the type of shit where it's like, man, I just. I can imagine Reggio just shaking in his fucking boots being like, fucking. I need to talk about that. It is very much. I understand. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Especially if you are very confident in what you have. Which clearly he is confident in it. Because it is very much like. It's the same length as the other films. You got Glass back. Soderbergh is on board. And I have no doubt that at the time, no one is going, oh, that's not gonna age in a year. The effects and stuff, even though to me they feel like they're five years too old. [01:31:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:31:41] Speaker A: The biggest issue, I think with this film is that this thesis feels so loose in comparison to the other two films. And to be honest, I think it has. It deals with the ultimate sin when it comes to trying to keep an audience invested, which is. I wasn't invested. [01:32:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:32:00] Speaker A: I enjoyed aspects of this movie. I enjoyed segments of this movie a lot. But as a whole, by the time we got to the ending, I don't even fully remember the ending. I think. [01:32:12] Speaker B: I don't remember the like shot. I remember the ending shot of the other two. [01:32:16] Speaker A: I believe it's a parachute jumper. I believe it's just someone jumping out of a plane. [01:32:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Which doesn't necessarily feel. [01:32:22] Speaker A: And it just like kind of like fades out into Nikoi Katsi compared to like the other two films where it's like, you know, Koyasu. [01:32:29] Speaker B: Clearly the final image evokes something about. Yeah. And that. That one just doesn't feel like Polakatsi. [01:32:37] Speaker A: Ends with like the. The mine in Brazil that the film starts with and like the man being carried and taken care of by his community. And like, this just kind of feels like, well, we are hitting the 30 minute mark, so I think it's time. Nikoi Cot's time. This is what it means. [01:32:58] Speaker B: It's because it's Kind of a self defeating film in that I think its greatest effect as a movie, like the greatest impression it leaves is by kind of being its own example of the thesis that it's putting forth of just like, look how, you know, hideous and dangerous and clumsy. These new burgeoning technologies are like. Yeah, I can see it right on the screen. You're using them. [01:33:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:33:33] Speaker B: And they look awful. [01:33:34] Speaker A: I think it really. It really is kind of a mix of. Just with each Katsi film, there is a bigger shadow that probably looms over him in terms of like anytime he is going to do something with Philip Glass. [01:33:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:33:49] Speaker A: And if it's not called Katsi, people are gonna go, why the fuck is this not a Katsi film? You have the people, you have the technology. Hell, you don't like what technology you're talking about. [01:34:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:03] Speaker A: And I think there's this looming effort because, like, I was curious about his filmography between Poa and Nikoi. And there's like a short film, I think, called Anima Munda or Munda. It's a short film and he's just a small part of it. And there's. That's it. Like, I think there's maybe a little thing here and there. And after Nikoi, he does visitors in 2013 and then I believe in 2021 he returns with Glass to make a narrative film. [01:34:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:30] Speaker A: Which I want to see because again, it's the craziest thing. I'm curious about that because Nikoi Khan is the type of film once within a time. Genuinely. If, if tomorrow there was announced that Reggio was going to make a fourth film in this and just add to it all, I would be down because I feel like in a sense, the gap between 88 and 2002, well, there's plenty, a lot there. We are now living in a time where we are constantly saying, I'm sick of living through history consistently happening. And I feel like in terms of our relationship with technology, it is evolving. Evolved. And it has affected us in a way that is so noticeable. It is like beating. It is like smacking a mallet on a bell. Like, it's like knocking the hammer on a bell. And just like being like, oh, we need to talk about this a little bit more. Like, just think about, like, how new things about AI come out, like every other week. There is a fear, at least as a fan of these movies, that, like, if another Katsi film comes out, there is running the risk that certain things they talk about become dated immediately after they talk about it. And it's also the fact that, like, Reggio is. He's not. He's not a young man. Like, if he doesn't want to do. [01:35:53] Speaker B: This anymore, he's in his 80s. [01:35:54] Speaker A: Yeah, he doesn't have to do that anymore. But, like, And I can tell, like, with Nikoi Katsi, there might be that energy of, like, being in, like, in the 80s, there is that energy of being so much more probably invested in that culture in a sense of like, discussing technology, humanity, more so than maybe he is now. And maybe there, I mean, again, this is all inference. Like, I would. I, again, I would really be interested to see what he does next, if he does anything next, because, like, it is. The Katsi films, including Nikoi, show that there is something there that he is willing to want to have a conversation with, even if the thesis is not fully realized, at least in our opinion. Yeah, like, he just. There's a conversation that. I feel like when you have discussions about these film about these topics, the most important part about these discussions is actually having them, is having the conversation and putting it in the zeitgeist in a way that is, you know, constantly in there. And like, even if it's casually talked about, just having that be a constant of thinking about, like, you know, we cannot stop technology and what it is doing to our culture, but we can at least be more aware, be more cautious. And it's funny because this film could have easily just had two or three different films, basically being like, we're gonna go to Skynet, it's gonna fuck everything up. We're gonna get robots that kill us. And it's like, no, it's. Realistically, technology has been around in humanity's life from the very beginning. [01:37:32] Speaker B: So, like, we're not. [01:37:32] Speaker A: You can't get rid of technology, but it's more like, can we have a healthier relationship? And that is an interesting conversation that I think doesn't really go out of style regardless of the decade. [01:37:44] Speaker B: Sure, yeah. [01:37:45] Speaker A: And it becomes more potent as time goes on. [01:37:48] Speaker B: And I think I would be really curious about what a fourth Katsi film would be. And I, I think, you know, cannot. [01:37:56] Speaker A: Guess the title because it's make no makes them Up. I would love. It would be funny if someone was like, I wonder if it's going to call this, like, if someone just like. [01:38:04] Speaker B: Makes somebody on Reddit has a fan theory. There's a. [01:38:07] Speaker A: There's a Reddit poll that Reggio runs secretly where someone's like, what would you like this next concept? And what does it mean? [01:38:16] Speaker B: But you Know, and I agree with you that it, you know, it's a difficult. And I think he ran into it with nakoikatsi of like, you know, stuff becoming immediately dated and what, what do you talk about and how do you interrogate it? But I do think, you know, even though it still feels like we're kind of just on the cusp of it and it's hard to tell if it's a bubble that's gonna burst or if it's truly the future or, and all of that. But like, I do think he, he would have an interesting perspective on AI. Oh yeah. I just don't know if, like, I could almost see a fourth Qazi film where the, I don't know what the Hopi made up word would be, but it would mean something like life eating itself or something. And you could talk about AI and you could talk about cryptocurrency and you know, just so many of the digital facilities that we use today that are just kind of regurgitations just discuss the. [01:39:12] Speaker A: Fact that AI consumes so much water. [01:39:15] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I mean, crypto too. It's all just, you know, we're obliterating the natural world to support the digital world and it's crazy. [01:39:24] Speaker A: And like. [01:39:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:39:24] Speaker A: And I can. Yeah. [01:39:26] Speaker B: Yes, he did. I found earlier today actually, just like, when was this? 2023. He did an interview with the film stage.com and they asked him about, you know, they're asking him about digital mediums and digital art and things like that. And he did say, he said, well, I'm going to have to have a conversation with AI. I'm taking Dostoevsky's Grand Inquisitor as my point of view and I think we're going to interrogate each other. Someone's setting that up for me. AI's been using my stuff and stealing things and making me look like a man from 3,000 years ago. So it sounds like he has a bone to pick with AI. [01:40:18] Speaker A: Oh, dude. [01:40:19] Speaker B: Or, you know, he's got it. It sounds like he's wanting to have a sit down conversation with an AI chatbot and if he can make that into a movie, I'll be there. [01:40:28] Speaker A: I would, I would. [01:40:30] Speaker B: Someone. Someone's setting that up for me. Like somebody is typing in chat GPT into his home computer so that he can talk. [01:40:37] Speaker A: He makes it sound like his grandson is signing him up for an account or something. Oh, I love that. Oh my gosh. I would again. Yeah, like that alone, there's a spark in my brain where it's like I will watch that. [01:40:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:40:49] Speaker A: Even if it's a fucking. [01:40:51] Speaker B: Even as much as I did not like Nakoiqatsi, it's like I kind of want more Reggio reckoning with the digital world. [01:40:57] Speaker A: I mean, I. You haven't said. Yeah, but I saw on letterbox, when you watched Visitors, you seem to like Visitors way more than you. Like. [01:41:04] Speaker B: I did like it more than. At least. [01:41:06] Speaker A: At least the last thing he didn't. At least Nicole Conce isn't the last thing he did. And also, you hated that. It's good to see that. Like, there's. And that is a fascinating view of. [01:41:16] Speaker B: Like, black and white image, black and white imagery. It's mostly portraits. It's almost entirely portraits, like, juxtaposed with, like, ruined buildings and things. I felt like it was a little one note, but it did feel like he was kind of going back to a territory he was more familiar. Familiar with, which felt nice. And Reggio does. Or not. Reggio Glass puts in good work, too. Yeah. [01:41:41] Speaker A: Glasses. He's. It really is this, like, this is the type of trilogy that, like, I wish, like, I want. I will, at some point probably buy all three of these films. Will I watch Nikoi Kotan? Probably not. I probably would not. I would probably watch it again if someone was interested. Like, again, if I. If I show Austin putting on his coccy and he watches Power Katsi, and he's like, I watched. I listened to the podcast, and I hear what you guys said about Nikoi. I don't want to do it alone. Would you do it with me? [01:42:17] Speaker B: He'd be so angry after he watches it. [01:42:19] Speaker A: I know. I know. But it would kind of be fun to watch. It would be fun to watch. Like, it's because it's. It. Because it's an experience that makes sense where it's like, this trilogy is an example of diminishing returns, but those diminishing returns are not boring. I don't really think Nikoikatsi is boring. I think if it's bad, in a sense, boring as it goes, I get less interested, for sure. But I think in terms of what it ends up being, it shows that Reggio just. It has. He has that spark yet. It just. The conveyance is not the same as the other two films. And I think it's really shows well that the last 10 minutes has just been us talking about. I would watch him talk to a wall if that wall would talk to him about technology. I think there's still a lot of meat on this bone that technology will Never go bare in a conversation. And I think if Reggio is willing to talk about it, I will happily listen. And if Philip Glass is involved, I'll take two tickets for four copies. [01:43:20] Speaker B: You know, we've talked a little bit about Glasses music being used in other things. The entire trilogy was actually kind of parodied by Grand Theft Auto. [01:43:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:43:34] Speaker B: They did, like, a trailer for four that was used music, I think, from Power. I think it's Pruitt. [01:43:41] Speaker A: I think it's Pruitt. Igno or go. [01:43:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And also, I didn't mention it while we were talking about the film. I forgot about it. But I was struck while watching Power Kazi, because one of my favorite movies, the Truman show, leverages that film's music for like, half of its score, which I never knew. Oh, I had some. I remember seeing Philip Glass's partial credit for music, but I guess I'd never looked in deep enough to realize that it was actually lifted from this movie. Yeah. But so that was. That was a kind of a treat for me during Power. Cause you'd be like, oh, here's this delightful piece that I know and love in a new context. [01:44:20] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, again, it's like, it almost. Philip Glass's work at this point is very similar to that. The piece from Sunshine that we always constantly talk about. [01:44:32] Speaker B: Adagio and D minor. [01:44:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Where it's like. It's that meme of someone being, like, relaxed and then just like, yes, sit up. Like, it's like if I hear Philip Glasses, especially Prophecies. Prophecies. Again, it's like, I. It is definitely as a track. I can't listen to Cold because it'll literally send a shiver down my spine. It is. It is this energy. It feels like you're in a giant building by yourself, and, like, nothing threatening is coming at you, but it's almost like a liminal space. [01:45:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:45:04] Speaker A: Like, you're like, if I have to listen to this longer than, like, five minutes, I will bash my head. Like, it's. I'm so scared something's gonna happen. It's such a beautiful. But it's also a beautiful piece because of how haunting it is. [01:45:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:45:16] Speaker A: And it's used constantly. And it's one of those things where, like. Yeah, it was hilarious. I'm not fucking kidding you. When I was watching Chaos Conce, I was. When I started listening to the music, when it was getting into prophecies or, like, literally right as prophecy started, I was like, holy shit. This kind of sounds like the piece and the Watchmen Like, I literally forgot we had, like. And then the piece perks, my ears perk. And I'm like, oh, my God. Literally just took it from this movie because it's so good. So many people are just like, I just want that. [01:45:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:45:51] Speaker A: But, yeah, that's the Katsi trilogy. It is a fascinating trilogy all the way through, even from its perfect beginning to its fumbling, you know, and very, very kind of like, you know, messy end. But, like, I would recommend watching all three of these films just to get a whole kind of sense of. It is a 20 years, 20 year trilogy that has also just. [01:46:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Just a really fascinating viewing experience. I think also, you know, as somebody, both of us just were constantly barra, like, giving ourselves a barrage of movies to watch. Like, not just on the podcast, but we're just always watching shit. You know, this was kind of a reset for me. Like, it kind of. It kind of. It threw me out of my comfort zone of, like, narrative film and, you know, kind of reset my brain of like, oh, I mean, especially Kayanisqatsi literally was one of those movies. Movies that was like, oh, yeah, this is why I love fucking moving pictures set to music. Yeah. You know, in the base. [01:46:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:46:56] Speaker B: You know, just, you know, kind of rewrote my DNA as a. As a movie buff a little bit. And so I think these are a really interesting thing to experience just for that, of, like, if you're really into movies, I think this is just a. A very unique experience, all three of these. [01:47:15] Speaker A: I literally, I think my first response after watching Kyan's Cats, he was, I need to watch a normal movie. [01:47:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:47:21] Speaker A: Just like, kind of get into the framework of like, I got to remind myself what that's like. And the second thing I thought was, God damn it, now I'm going to be one of those guys where like, for the years and years, we constantly hear about how great Koyaskatsi is and we're like, okay, you sound like a film. You sound like a film. Thanks for that. And now I'm like, fuck, I'm now a part of that. Because I could easily put this in my letterbox top four. And I would be fine with that. [01:47:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:47:45] Speaker A: And it's like that kind of where it's like, it's worth it. It's genuinely like, in my opinion, kiosk is a 10 out of 10. Podsi is like a 7.5 out of 10. And then like, Nikoya Katsi is like a 5 out of 10. [01:47:57] Speaker B: Sure. [01:47:58] Speaker A: And I think 5 is generous. But at the Same time again. You could throw Philip Glass orchestrating a cat smearing on a wall, and I'd be like, that's at least a five. Yeah, listen to that. Listen to that cello. Also. Yo Yo Ma does the cello solos. I believe in the Koyakatsu, so if anything, thank God for Yoho Ma. [01:48:19] Speaker B: It's funny you saying you felt like you needed to watch a normal movie after Koyaanisqatsi. Do you want to know what the two movies immediately before and immediately after Koyaanisqatsi that I watched were? [01:48:34] Speaker A: Gosh, was it happy Gilmore 1 and 2? [01:48:37] Speaker B: No, I wish. Jesus Christ. Right before. The last movie I watched before Kayanisqatsi was a movie you showed me on my birthday, Dragon Ball the Magic. [01:48:47] Speaker A: Did you watch it again? [01:48:48] Speaker B: No, that was the last movie I watched before Koyaanisqatsi. And then after Koyanisqatsi, the next movie I watched was K Pop Demon Hunters. [01:48:57] Speaker A: Oh, damn. You watching that weekend? [01:49:00] Speaker B: Oh, no, it was just a wild, wild. [01:49:07] Speaker A: Now I just want to watch Dragon Ball. The magic begins, but with prophecies playing no dialogue. [01:49:14] Speaker B: You just turn off the audio for that movie, put on the crown. [01:49:17] Speaker A: Like when, Gosh, when the pig monster shows up. Yeah, Prophecies is going hard, but yeah, I would highly recommend giving this trilogy a watch. And if, again, if you hate the last film or if you're. Or if you like that last film more so than we do, good for you. [01:49:37] Speaker B: Honestly, fuck off. Never listen again. Kiss us goodbye. We don't want you. [01:49:43] Speaker A: That's how. That really shows how he feels about that last film, but more so in a traditional film sense. Our next trilogy, we're throwing it back. We're throwing it back. We're going away from no plot, no character. Beautiful, gorgeous, kind of like vivid array of color to a classic black and white Japanese trilogy that is a part of a director that we've talked about in terms of films you've wanted to watch for years, just like, you know, that have been in our backlog for a while and kind of find an excuse to get this or that we. You know, last year I found out that this director has this trilogy that pertains three films that are considered pretty iconic for its era. And that director is Yasujiro Ozu, who created this trilogy. It's kind of. It's a loose trilogy, but it's. It's called the Noriko Trilogy, which thematic trilogy, essentially, which kind of has, I believe, a character in all three films named Noriko. But it's not. It could be. It isn't. Again, we haven't fully watched. [01:50:58] Speaker B: It's not necessarily from my understanding, it's not really. There's not a continuity to them and it's not necessarily the case that they are all three the same woman. Yeah, they're thematically similar, dealing with similar topics, Noriko involved and. Yeah, Noriko is a key character in all three. [01:51:15] Speaker A: And to kick off September, we're going to be discussing 1949's late spring, 1951's early summer, and 1953's Tokyo story, which I would imagine is the most popular of the film. [01:51:27] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's probably his most well known film. [01:51:30] Speaker A: Yes. And so that'll be September 6th. So tune in on September 6th when we discuss Ozu's Nordico Trilogy. But as always, I'm Logan Somash. [01:51:41] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [01:51:42] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.