Review: Superman (2025)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, everyone. I'm Logan So. [00:00:02] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:00:03] Speaker A: And we're back again. I know it's the fastest turnaround for a quickie slash review. [00:00:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:00:10] Speaker A: I will probably call this one a review, even though it'll probably. [00:00:15] Speaker B: Because, I mean, this is the kind of movie that both of us can go on and on and on about, so. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So. [00:00:22] Speaker B: May end up going on. [00:00:25] Speaker A: Yeah. So in case you haven't read the title today, we're going to be talking about James Gunn Superman, which just came out over the weekend. Up front, we're not going to immediately talk about spoilers, but we will probably at some point talk about them because one, unlike Rebirth, practically everything about this film narratively has kind of been kept behind closed doors to an extent. [00:00:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:00:46] Speaker B: They've done honestly, a really good job with the trailers not telling you what the movie is about. [00:00:53] Speaker A: I think literally a few days before the film came out, they did a breakdown of an action sequence. Like it's the one in the. In the baseball stadium, which we've seen a couple of times, but that was the first time someone had named one of the villains that had been popping up in all the trailers but we'd never seen before. [00:01:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:11] Speaker A: Or never gotten a name for until then. So, like. Yeah. So just spoilers will be abound later on in the episode. But to put it bluntly on spoiler free situation as we're recording this, we're literally going to see this again tomorrow. [00:01:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:26] Speaker A: So I feel like that's a good indication of where we are. [00:01:28] Speaker B: Yeah. We're both big fans of this movie. [00:01:30] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. I feel like, you know, when we saw Rebirth, we had. We had the idea that of all the three big hundred plus million dollar blockbusters coming out in July from studios, we assumed Rebirth was going to be the weakest. And so far, so good. It is definitely. Compared to Rebirth, Superman is a breath of fresh air in a way that is like. It is not saying a lot that this is the best Superman film since the original Reeve. [00:02:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:01] Speaker A: But I do think it is saying a lot that what this film does for Superman, I feel like, is just monumental compared to anything in the 21st century other than maybe Smallville, if you're a huge fan. [00:02:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:16] Speaker B: I mean, really, it's, you know, probably one of a select few superhero movies in General of the 21st century that really feels like vital kind of to the genre and like bringing in something that was much needed. [00:02:30] Speaker A: A shot of Hopium to the arm. [00:02:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:32] Speaker B: Hope for sure. [00:02:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:34] Speaker B: I mean, it's Just I think the genre kind of needed this. I think Superman kind of needed this. Oh, yeah, he definitely certainly needed this. [00:02:45] Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, again, it's one of those situations where if you're listening to this, you may or may not know that a few years back, probably two, three. God, it all feels like it just happened last year, but I think about two or three years ago, it was announced that James Gunn and Peter Safran, who is a constant collaborator with James Gunn, which we've talked about James Gunn on the podcast before with Rise of Gunn, talking about his earlier films, and also discuss the fact that when you talk about superheroes or comic book films nowadays, pre Superman, you usually are discussing Gun and his Guardians the Galaxy films, as well as, at the time, the best DC film we've had in years, which is the Suicide Squad. Guns, not sequel to David Ayers. [00:03:29] Speaker B: Sorry, Logan, I think you accidentally said the Suicide Squad when you meant to just say Suicide Squad. [00:03:37] Speaker A: It's just. [00:03:40] Speaker B: It's a distinct difference. And, you know, don't. Don't besmirched David Ayer's masterpiece. [00:03:45] Speaker A: I took Psychic Damage when he said it. Five comedy points, but five psychic damage taken from that. [00:03:51] Speaker B: Worth it? [00:03:52] Speaker A: It was worth it. But, yeah, Gun, basically, Gunn and Peter Safran have basically been giving the reins to reboot the dcu, which is what. [00:04:04] Speaker B: They'Re calling it at the moment. Yes. DCU people were colloquially calling the Zack Snyder inspired iteration. They were. It was kind of commonly known as the dceu, although that was never the official moniker. Because it never had an official moniker. [00:04:22] Speaker A: No, it didn't. It was that or Snyderverse. [00:04:24] Speaker B: Yeah, Snyderverse. [00:04:25] Speaker A: Usually the latter was said in a snarky, ironic sense. [00:04:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:29] Speaker A: But yeah, in the. In the late. In the early 2010s, basically, at a certain point, D.C. wanted to do a cinematic universe. They asked Nolan. Nolan was like, fuck, no. But I think Snyder might have the talent and the, you know, the capability to do a universe. And so, of course, that leads to 2013's man of Steel, 2016's Batman v Superman, dawn of justice, and then after that, Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman 84, Suicide Squad, the Flash, both Aquaman films, both versions of the justice league, both the two hour and the 18 hour cut. There's like all these. We've covered pretty much a good chunk of those films. We've covered since We've talked about practically everything Snyder has done. We've talked about man of Steel, Batman v Superman, and both cuts of the Justice League. We've talked about Snyder in the past, mainly because it's like when it comes to superhero films, it was kind of wild to have Marvel in a place where it felt like they could do no wrong while DC was just throwing anything at the wall. And while some of those things ended up becoming super successful for them, other things were just absolutely train wrecked. [00:05:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:40] Speaker A: All the way up to, like, their very final dceu Snyderverse film, which is, of course, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom. [00:05:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:50] Speaker A: After which was like, basically a year of Flash, Blue Beetle and that. And then that gotta get pushed out. There's also the film that completely changed the DCU hierarchy, which is Black Adam. [00:06:04] Speaker B: Correct. Yeah. [00:06:05] Speaker A: Shazam. One or two. It's funny to think, now that I'm saying them all out loud, a lot of those. [00:06:10] Speaker B: There were a lot of. I don't think. [00:06:12] Speaker A: Surprisingly, I don't think about most of them either. But basically, all those movies that were there, Throw them back. That was a different era. [00:06:20] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a. That's. That one that run is done practically. [00:06:23] Speaker A: The 2010s and then a little bit the 2000s. But that. That feels like something that is now out of date. [00:06:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Because now we're at James Gunn Superman and James Gunn Superman, while it's not technically the first thing that is in his new dcu. Both. Both the Suicide Squad, to an extent, and Peacemaker, as well as last year's Creature Commandos, which is like an animated series on Max. Don't glaze over your eyes. I'm not gonna tell you that you have to watch that for this movie. But it is like, there is other things, if you want to watch, to see what Gun kind of has in mind cooking up. Yeah. Because hilariously, while Creature Commandos is not, you know, crucial for Superman, there is a character in that show that is in this. Frank Grillo, who is gon Peacemaker Season 2, as well. [00:07:11] Speaker C: As. [00:07:11] Speaker B: Well as Rick Flag Senior. [00:07:13] Speaker C: Yes. [00:07:14] Speaker B: The father of God. What's his name? [00:07:18] Speaker A: Rick Flag. [00:07:19] Speaker B: No, no, no, no. The actor Joel Kinnaman's character in the. [00:07:23] Speaker A: Suicide Squad movie, Rick Flag, who he didn't know is a junior until now. [00:07:26] Speaker C: Right. [00:07:27] Speaker A: But, yeah. So basically, a few years ago, James Gunn, when he got the DCU with Peter Safran, he released a video online and basically said this is what Book one. [00:07:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:39] Speaker A: Was going to look like, basically Phase One. [00:07:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:42] Speaker A: And there's a bunch of shit on there that is basically like a lot of tv. Their goal with dcu, and we will get to the movie at some point. I just want to make it clear. I want to make it clear that going into Superman, like, especially for us, we are. We are aware that James Gunn kind of has a goal, I'd say even loftier goal than Feige and MCU have, where they basically want to have movies, animation, and even video games possibly all tie into the same universe with characters that kind of ebb and flow to all of those. [00:08:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:14] Speaker B: Well, notably Gun seems to be, you know, he seems to be emphasizing that they. Without saying so much, he doesn't want to repeat the mistakes of the mcu where all of it has to feel the same and tonally consistent. I mean, we've already gotten the announcement that Clayface, which is gonna be a solo film, is gonna be like a full on horror movie. [00:08:37] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:38] Speaker B: You know, we're getting all sorts of stuff of different genres. Like Lanterns is supposed to be a kind of a crime procedural. [00:08:44] Speaker A: It's basically a true detective space cop drama. [00:08:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:49] Speaker B: So that'll be interesting. And it's certainly an ambitious plan. [00:08:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:08:55] Speaker B: Especially because he keeps emphasizing how much they're trying to not put the plan before the individual projects. [00:09:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:09:02] Speaker B: Which is. Sounds great. [00:09:04] Speaker A: Yes. Because it's basically, you know, Gun is not directing all of these things. He's not writing everything that's here. He has currently written and been a part of nearly every single thing up until, you know, next year. Next year we're going to start getting a lot of the stuff like Lanterns, like Andy said, as well as another film which we'll probably reference during the spoiler section of this. But I wanted to bring all this up not because you need to remember this, but because what's so great about this movie genuinely is just like whether you know about it or not going into this movie, it doesn't matter because this movie rips on its own. And every bit of this movie very much feels like Gun is trying to make a Superman film that'll stand on its own, regardless if the DCU lives or dies in the next five years. [00:09:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:52] Speaker A: It very much feels like a man who has seen so much superhero content, especially Superman, content that has kind of missed the mark or have hit the mark, but is not entirely in a film sense and realized we just need Superman now more than ever in his mind. And this movie kind of shows. Yeah. I think Superman was much needed. [00:10:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:14] Speaker B: Especially a take on Superman that says earnest and. And throwback while still feeling like fresh. [00:10:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:26] Speaker B: Because. Yeah, there's a. You've probably heard if you're interested in Superman at all or this new movie, you've probably heard the. The waves of criticism the film has received before it even came out about, oh, yeah. Oh, Superman is woke now and weeks now. And he's a. He's a pathetic girly boy because he's not a stoic, statue, cardboard person who hates himself like Henry Cavill's Superman. [00:10:56] Speaker A: Here's the thing, and if you like man of Steel, that's totally fine. Again, we both like aspects, and I think overall think that movie is fine, especially in comparison to later entries in the Snyderverse per se. But I think fundamentally, the thing about man of Steel that I can understand why people hate so much is the fact that it's pretty clear that the guy who was directing and writing that film, or at least directing the. Snyder's case. I don't think he wrote that film. [00:11:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:24] Speaker A: Does not care about Superman as much as he probably should in comparison to other characters which you see in Batman v Superman, that should technically be a Superman sequel, but instead we have a Batman introduction because clearly Snyder was more interested in doing. [00:11:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:41] Speaker A: Frank Miller, I think. [00:11:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I think Snyder was just more interested in doing some form of deconstruction of superheroes on the whole. You can, you know, we could go back and forth and we have over how successful or valid that deconstruction was, but I think he was more interested in a broader conceptual thing like that than he was in making Superman. [00:12:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Hilariously. Hilariously enough, I think it's funny that people have called Gun Superman Woke because it has political themes and agendas and like, kind of like deconstructing a superhero in a modern world when that's literally what Snyder fucking does in his own way in man of Steel and bbs. Not as well. We both would agree. That's not as well. But it's funny that it's like. It shows just how little people actually cared about what I think Snyder attempted to do and just didn't really fully like, fully kind of develop in the same way, because James Gunn. Superman is political. It has a vision. It is very earnest, it's hopeful, it's colorful, it's poppy, it's silly. It is arguably, I think the one thing that most people can agree on, whether you like it or don't like the movie, is that it is stuffed. This is a movie that is stuffed to gills for the lot going on. And hilariously, we talked about the Superman sequels recently, which, if you haven't listened to that episode, please do. [00:13:06] Speaker C: But. [00:13:06] Speaker A: But in that episode, we talk about how funny it is that people talk about how at least in Superman ii, how they say there's so much going on when in reality, it doesn't feel like anything is boring yet nothing really is going on that is very pertinent until like 30 minutes left until the movie happens. And then you get right into this movie. And this movie from the get go has a crawl, Has a text crawl and basically brings you right into the action almost immediately. [00:13:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:36] Speaker A: And then basically it's like gun does. I think one of the boldest things you could do in a superhero film, which is basically go, like, it's already established. This is not going to be an origin story. [00:13:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:46] Speaker A: You know what the origin of Superman is. We will talk about his life on Krypton. We will talk about his costume. We'll talk about how long he's been here. We'll talk about his powers and everything. Like, it's Lex, Lois Lane. Like, it's really much. Just like very much so is a man who has outwardly just said, like, there are things we do not need in comic book films anymore, and that is seeing Superman fall from the sky. We don't need to see Martha Wayne clutch her pearls and get shot. And really, you don't need to see Uncle Ben get shot at this point anymore, too. Like, it's like they have become so ingrained. [00:14:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:31] Speaker A: Like, it's hilarious how Superman has felt like it hasn't had, like a good. A great solo film in a decades. [00:14:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:38] Speaker A: And yet those stories are still built in. [00:14:40] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:14:41] Speaker A: And so he kind of has that bold choice of just like, all right, we're just gonna play in the playground. Minute one. [00:14:48] Speaker B: Well, I mean, there certainly is a wrong way to do that. [00:14:51] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. [00:14:52] Speaker B: You can totally assume that the audience knows more than they do and. Or just, you know, make a movie that feels incoherent on its own by skipping that stuff just because, you know, the audience knows it. But I mean, this movie, you know, swings way inside that boundary and. And does a really good job, I think, of, without having to stop and explain to you who everybody is. Does a really good job of kind of quietly getting you up to speed so that you understand even if you know nothing about Superman. Like, the information is all in this movie. There may not be long scenes explaining all of it, but it's like, you know, there's still enough information there. You can be like, okay, he's an alien. He's living amongst us as a regular person working at a newspaper. He's in love with the other. The star reporter. Yeah, the star reporter. And Most people like him, but some very powerful people don't. [00:15:53] Speaker A: Yep. [00:15:54] Speaker B: And that's. That's kind of where we. Where we begin with Lex Luthor having come up with a plan to bring down everybody's favorite metahuman. [00:16:06] Speaker A: Yeah, it. Again, it is. It's a breath of fresh air. I would. I wouldn't be surprised. I hope it's not true, because that would also mean that we get another surprise this year. But if this ends up being the best superhero film or anything superhero media we get this year, then that's great. [00:16:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:22] Speaker B: I think this is a very, very high bar. [00:16:25] Speaker A: This is high bar. And I think this is something that, like, unfortunately for Gun, from this point forward, if he does, he's got to do something like this. And it's also, like, there's just so much confidence in this movie. There's a heart and soul that hasn't been felt like this in a superhero and Superman context in a while. I would even argue. And this is. [00:16:50] Speaker B: I mean, in superheroes in general, I think. I mean, I would say that. I mean, I. You know, maybe if I went back through the recesses of my mind and all the superhero movies I've seen, I could be wrong. But I feel like, personally, without being too melodramatic, this might be the first superhero movie in my lifetime that I've seen. That, like, really makes me, like, wish the character was a real force in our world. You know, kind of, like, have that fantasy of, like, damn, the world would be a better place if this guy was in it. And, you know, the only other time I may have felt that was, like, the original Raimi's Spider Man. [00:17:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:36] Speaker B: Where, you know, he's just so ingrained in New York City in that movie, and that city feels alive, and it's like, okay, he's a New Yorker. He's like, he's one of us. You know? And Gunn accomplishes that with this movie, with David Cornswith's incredible performance and their combined characterization of Superman as a. As a human being but without trying to skirt around his immense power. [00:18:04] Speaker A: Yes. [00:18:04] Speaker B: You know, they still show off how different he is and how powerful he is, but at the end of the day, this is a Superman that, you know, you would want to be friends with. You would want to be your buddy, and at the same time, he's somebody to look up to. He's an ideal and a person in one. [00:18:22] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:18:23] Speaker B: Which is what you want from a Superman story or a rendition of Superman. It's exactly what Christopher Reeve and Richard donner were chasing and achieved in their films. At least the first one. [00:18:35] Speaker A: No. But even two, I think. [00:18:37] Speaker B: I mean, Reeve gets it in all those movies for sure. [00:18:40] Speaker A: The benefit. Yeah. Of having Reeve in every single one of those movies is that you never lose the moments where he helps people. Because nine times out of 10 in those movies, even so far as Quest for Peace, like, I couldn't help but, like, watching guns, watching this. There's a moment in Superman 2, it's very silly in the movie, but a child falls off a rail that goes right into Niagara Falls. Cuts to a dummy that's falling. But what's so funny is that that scene has Superman. You'll go like, Clark leaves to become Superman, goes down, picks him up. But, you know, as he drops the kid, you have a moment that's like, you know, another. In a modern take, you think that kid would be traumatized or would just be shaken by something like that, but, like, because it's Superman, it's so hopeful and so colorful. [00:19:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:28] Speaker B: It's comforting. [00:19:28] Speaker A: That kid goes. That kid goes again, again. And he goes, sorry, kid, only one per customer. And then leaves. IM and the amount of times in Gunn's film that he just does that so efficiently and so, again, confidently. Confidence is, like, the key with this movie. It's the confidence that Superman does look silly, but that's on purpose. [00:19:50] Speaker B: Well, the confidence that, like, the audience is on board with a superhero who feels like a hero in the same sense that, like, a firefighter is a hero or a paramedic is a hero. You know, you. You want those moments where they stop the world ending shit for a second, stop the maniacal supervillain battle to just help somebody who needs help on the street. And this movie's chock full of those, you know, Squirrels are saved in this film. The squirrels saved, Children are saved. Food stand workers are saved. [00:20:25] Speaker A: I don't think I ever got so jazzed seeing a superhero take the time out of their day to save a squirrel. [00:20:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:31] Speaker B: In the middle of the situation, Superman. [00:20:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:33] Speaker A: He. It has always been interesting when people talk about how to make him interesting in a narrative, when it's like, the most interesting part about Superman is what makes him interesting is that despite his upbringing, despite his abilities, he is still human at heart. He is very much someone who had to grow up in awkward teenage years. He had to grow up realizing that things are never going to be what he wants it to be. But that doesn't mean that should stop him from fighting to get better, to overcome his flaws, to overcome the mistakes that he makes or just the. The failings. [00:21:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:09] Speaker A: Because it's. It's. It's great that this film starts with basically his first. His first failure that we are aware of. [00:21:18] Speaker C: Right. [00:21:18] Speaker A: Which is he technically is losing a fight when this movie starts. Yeah, this movie starts with the IMAX footage that was released, like, a month or two ago, which is fantastic. And thankfully, there were some things that were cut from that teaser for that teaser that I think made it great to see in theaters because it was quite shocking. There's a plethora of cameos and references and little Knocks nods here and there. [00:21:43] Speaker B: Sure. [00:21:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:43] Speaker B: This movie doesn't avoid indulging those little fun things. [00:21:47] Speaker A: Considering Gunn has made so many friends through his comic book romps and has clearly just built his own rogues gallery of goofballs that are willing to do whatever he would like to do. There's a reason why Nathan Fillion is in this fucking thing is because Nathan is down for anything that gun is asking him at this point. And it's been like that since Slither. Yeah, it seems. But it's just so. It's so much fun to watch Superman get angry knowing that, like, that anger is just, you know, he's not losing. He is not losing control to the point where he's going to destroy a building because he's so mad or whatnot. He literally is. You can see in the performance of Corn Sweat, who is fucking perfect. We could literally take the whole review talking about how Corn Sweat just captures Superman in a way that not only feel like. I think would make Reeve smirk and cry to see that, but also is modern. It is a modern take on this character in a way that is just, you know, feels like we're getting 70s Superman in the 2020s, and it doesn't feel like he's out of time. [00:23:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:01] Speaker A: And actually, the way. Which I think we'll get into spoiler territory, but the way that Lois and Clark basically describe his viewpoint on life is so perfect. [00:23:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:12] Speaker A: It is just like, God, I cannot believe that that is. I've just never thought there'd be, like, a perfect encapsulation of, like, why he is such a. It's a blessing and a curse to be someone so optimistic. [00:23:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:26] Speaker B: Well, and the frame. I don't want to give, like, the lines away just because they're so good, but the frame of reference that they use to articulate that about who Superman is and why he's so special, you know, that is also. It's in one way, kind of a dated set of references, but also distinctly modern from, you know, Reeves version, where that frame of reference could not have been used back when Reeve was making these films. Could not have been used back in the early days of the comics where the characters foundations were developed. You know, it is a. It's a 21st century take on the character, but it's undeniably true to who the core has always been while. While injecting it with that kind of youthfulness that feels, you know, distinct and part of our era. And at the same time, it's funny because David Korn sweats Superman in this. He does feel a little bit old fashioned. Old fashioned. Like, he feels like, you know, and I don't even mean like, as we are watching him on screen, I mean, like, in his world, compared to the other people around him, he seems kind of old school. He's a dork. Like, he's the kind of guy who was raised by like, parents who are really old. [00:24:45] Speaker A: God. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Pa and Ma Kent in this movie. I feel like it is. A lot of people have said this, and I agree with them. And I think you agree with me too, with this. We're just like. I don't think I ever want to see a pawn mock Kent that isn't as perfect as these two, where it's like they. This is not. And again, I think. I think Costner and Lane in Snyder's films, I think are as good as they can be. [00:25:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:09] Speaker A: But they're quite distracting to a degree because again, it's almost kind of the Marisa Tomei is Aunt May situation where, like, they're both a little too attractive still to be what I think. But still, Costner's still, you know, he's got that leather, you know, that leatherly leather, old fashioned. And Diane Lane is aged incredibly well. And it's like they're both stars still and they're pop. They pop in a way that like, you don't really need actors to really do in a role like Pa and Ma Kent. What you really want them to pop in is just like as soon as they come on screen, which happens in this movie. As soon as they come on screen. Ma and Pa Kent, just by how it's framed and how they are talking to one another, it is just like perfect. The accents, the body language. [00:26:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:02] Speaker B: I mean, just the humility of their personalities and like how they're just. They're so everyman, like. Oh, yeah, exactly what you want. Because, you know, Clark is a guy from small town, Kansas Smallville in Kansas. Like, yeah, he's red blooded American, you know, heart, heartland boy, very humble. And this is, this is his stock. This is what he comes from, you. [00:26:27] Speaker A: Know, and it's, it's great that it's just gun could have easily had anyone be in that that is like, oh, we could put their name on the poster. [00:26:36] Speaker C: Right. [00:26:36] Speaker A: But he gets character actors who are just now going to be loved eternally for being these roles because they're just an absolute delight. And it's also kind of phenomenal too that like this movie doesn't take shortcuts in terms of how to get us to be emotionally invested with Superman. They're easy shortcuts. Easy shortcut could be like in Donner's film. Even though I love the scene, incredibly in the original film is like, you know, when PA Kent dies or like when Krypton is destroyed like man of Steel. And in Superman, like using the destruction of Krypton as like, he's alone, he's alone hero in that regard. No one else is like that. And it's in James Gunn, Superman, the way that they do that as him being a lone hero and kind of feeling sorry for him and whatnot is a revelation that we as an audience member know he had no idea what that revelation like was and what it ends up being. But since we only, we know everyone else just, or at least the public turns on him in a way, which is just a fascinating way to do it because in trailers we had certain shots where we were like, okay, how the hell did we get to a point where like, people are yelling and being mean to him? And the way they do it, I think is very understandable. I think it's very easy to be like, I understand that there's clearly some context missing in what this revelation is in terms of what it probably is meant to be for Superman. [00:28:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:07] Speaker A: But since we he doesn't have the context, everyone else is just going to expect the worst case scenario of it. And that leads to this great, you know, section of the movie where it's basically like, you know, Superman having to be Superman while the chips are down on him. And that leads to like where, you know, a lot of the supporting cast comes out of which, my God, I mean, Rachel Brosnahan is a perfect Lois. I think she very much captures the same vibe that Kidder understood back in the 70s and the 80s, but also like corn sweat finds a modern way to take it. And Jimmy Olsen is hilariously now a ladies man, but does not know it, which is Hilarious. Perry White is in the movie, like, genuinely. He's just like. He's just a small part of it, but every time he's in it, it's just like, ah, there he is. Like, there is such a big cast and the big cast, really, the supporting characters that get to play really get to kind of like, kind of eat. [00:29:14] Speaker B: We get some other superheroes too. In the Justice Gang, which is a corporately owned team of superheroes, which is where Nathan Fillion comes in as Guy Gardner, the D tier Lantern, and Isabella Merced as Hawk Girl. And then I can't remember his name, but Mr. [00:29:36] Speaker A: Terrific, I think it was Edie Nathagawi. Let me see. [00:29:39] Speaker B: That sounds right. [00:29:41] Speaker A: It sounds right, but that does not mean it's correct. Let me look. Edie Gothiji. [00:29:47] Speaker B: Okay. [00:29:48] Speaker A: It is. He's a Kenyan American actor. He has been around for decades. It was hilarious. When we left the theater, when we saw this movie, most of us knew him for his unfortunate. His unfortunate role as Darwin in X Men First Class. It's unfortunate because he's a great actor. And in that movie, they put him as an. As a mutant who can adapt to anything. [00:30:16] Speaker B: That's his stick. That's a stick to anything. [00:30:19] Speaker A: And he can adapt. They give him something he can adapt to almost immediately. And it's a bummer because that actor ends up doing. I mean, we knew him from that, but like, we had a lot of our wives and our girlfriends knew him from Twilight because he is in the original Twilight as well. But he's been around for decades. His role, his take on Mr. Terrific is basically feels like this is what he's a redemption that he has been deserved for so long because it is hilarious. It is hilarious to say that in a Superman film that has Superman, Hawkgirl, green lantern and Mr. Terrific. I couldn't be happier to say that Mr. Terrific has a more prominent part than any of the other two secondary heroes. I mean, they still are a part of the story. And I think. [00:31:12] Speaker B: I mean, he does play a pivotal role. [00:31:15] Speaker A: And he's funny in his own way. He looks cool as hell in his outfit, which is just so comic book accurate. Gosh, the jacket he wears that just says fair play on it. I don't know why it says that, but it has. It ingrained in my brain that it has that. And I'm like, it's so weird to see this guy on screen, but it works so well. [00:31:35] Speaker B: It's almost like one to one of how he typically looks in the comics. [00:31:39] Speaker A: And the way that he's portrayed as well as there are other things that get introduced as we go along. There are other metahumans that are discussed that are not on the good side, per se. [00:31:49] Speaker B: I mean, it's a teeming world. Gun doesn't really shy away from. He says it in the opening tech, like, title crawl of, like, this is a world where metahumans exist. And, I mean, even Superman's been around for a few years, but, you know, humanity is no stranger to superpowered people. [00:32:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:10] Speaker B: And, you know, I think he does a really good job with creating a world that already exists with all of those toys in it to play with, but doesn't feel overwhelming and doesn't feel like it's stopping the story that we're all actually here to see and be engaged with, to give us unnecessary details on the world. It never really gets distracted by world building, which is great. Or setting up sequels. There are a couple things in here where it's like, oh, okay, that's clearly coming back for something. [00:32:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:45] Speaker B: But it. You know, they're very organic, and they never feel like they're distracting. [00:32:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I think, like, it just feels. [00:32:53] Speaker B: Like it's a movie made by a guy who fucking loves comic books. And he's like, this is how comic books are. There's just shit happening in the background all the time. And that's just what's going on. [00:33:03] Speaker A: And it took a decade plus for another company, and. Hilarious. It took a director from the MCU to basically establish to many other people that a lot of reasons why Cinematic universe don't go off as well as they should is because at a certain point, the MCU showed everybody, or at least should have showed other studios that audiences are willing to watch 20 plus movies to stay in vogue with a storyline. [00:33:36] Speaker B: As long as you put the horse before the cart. [00:33:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:38] Speaker A: And it is hilarious to think that, you know, man of Steel literally could have started with him already in the suit and didn't have to do his backstory the way that they did. But that movie hilariously takes a lot from Raimi's Spider man and spends the first hour kind of doing the origin story. [00:33:58] Speaker B: It's lifting from the Dark Knight trilogy, too. It's like, oh, we're going to to do a real serious take because Superman is apparently not a serious character. [00:34:07] Speaker A: And. [00:34:07] Speaker B: And we have to start from scratch. [00:34:09] Speaker A: And we'll even talk about it next week with our not so Fantastic Four trilogy. But, like, Four Stick was 20th Century Fox trying to bring Fantastic Four back. And that film literally is just like taking Way too much time to rebuild what the Fantastic Four is when most people who don't probably like the Fantastic Four still know that there's a stretchy guy, a fire guy, an invisible guy, and a rock guy. [00:34:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:34:35] Speaker A: Like, it is. It is like, it is funny how this movie just goes right into it. And it's just like, you see that. You see that woman that screeches like she's a bird and has bird wings. [00:34:45] Speaker B: You're gonna be fine. [00:34:46] Speaker A: That's Hawkgirl. [00:34:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:48] Speaker A: The guy with the green ring. You probably didn't know his name, but he's such a douchebag. He keeps saying that he's a Green Lantern of the lantern corps, like Lex. Lex will just. Like. There are times where Lex just explains things that is like, honestly, like, it's great because Nicholas Hoult is the best cinematic Lex Luthor we've gotten in the theater. [00:35:08] Speaker C: Like. Yeah. [00:35:09] Speaker A: And again, I like Gene Hackman's interpretation in the Donner films, mainly because I think him not giving a shit about the. The accuracy leads to him being an egotistical douche that, like, Lex should be. [00:35:23] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:35:23] Speaker A: In the. In a movie sense. And he's a lot of Fun in both 1 and 2. [00:35:28] Speaker B: But Holt is awesome. [00:35:32] Speaker A: And it only makes it better that Holt auditioned for Superman and Lost and then became Lex, which almost just adds the fire to the flame that, you know, Lex's whole goal is kind of just to kill something that, you know, he is afraid of and also wants to be at the same time. [00:35:49] Speaker B: He's. [00:35:50] Speaker A: Yeah, he is. He's xenophobic. He is a. He's egotistical, and he's genuinely, I think, intimidating in a way that is, like, hilarious for Lex because, like, especially for his Lex, because Nicholas Holtz is. He can build muscle. He can be a shit brick house if he wants to, but, like, he's very slender. He's very lean in this film, but that doesn't make him any less intimidating. [00:36:15] Speaker C: Yeah, he's. [00:36:16] Speaker B: He's got a lot of presence in this film. And I think it also helps that Gun does not shy away from making his villain a fucking terrible person. [00:36:24] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:36:25] Speaker B: Like, he does some heinous shit in this. In this movie, and it's like, okay, thank God we've. We've got a, you know, a superhero movie villain who's actually despicable. [00:36:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And it makes perfect sense that if you're gonna. If you have a superhero who cares about every living creature, including a squirrel in a city, his antagonist is going to be someone who uses people like they are products. [00:36:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:56] Speaker A: Like they are disposable. Easy to just throw away whenever it is Very much so. A great. The best in my opinion. There's. This movie has so many phenomenal Lex Superman moments that people could be like, you're wrong. This is the best moment. I'd be like, that movie rocks. That part rocks. I like that. There is a scene involving a gun that I think is the perfect Lex and Superman scene in this movie. Because you get why Lex can be so threatening and so terrifying to Superman in terms of how he questions. It is full blown hope and optimism against full blown cynicism and pessimism of just like this world is a shit show. At least if anything I can make a quick buck off of it. [00:37:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:49] Speaker A: And it is very. It is in a way where again it feels so confident in how it's like you know who Lex is. And even if you don't know who Lex is, you find out very fast who Lex is and why he's so intimidating and why, you know, at a certain point when we have non super command characters getting involved in the Lex kind of plot, you are kind of like, you know, it's. I don't, I don't want them to get involved because I don't want them to get hurt in the same way. And it's. It is. [00:38:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:21] Speaker B: He actually carries an aura of danger around. [00:38:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's, it just is from top to bottom. Like I, I would not give this film a perfect score. Like, I think I'm still on that verge of like where I. This is an easy four and a half out of five. Like for me like a nine out of ten situation. But I think it's something where it's like maybe after we see it again tomorrow I'll just be like, fuck that, it's a five out of five. But I think like I will admit that it is very much a film that throws a lot at you. And that could be, that could be exhausting for some people at a certain point. [00:39:02] Speaker B: Like it's. I mean I think, I think the, the funny thing about this movie is it's, it is so well paced. Like it's so. It moves so quickly without losing you. You know, it's very, it's incredibly coherent for as much as it's throwing at you. It's, I think before credits under two hours it is. Which is monumental for an A list superhero movie in this day and age. But you know, it's so well paced and so tightly wounded that it's almost frustrating that, like, there's not more wrong with it. Well, no, not that. [00:39:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that too. But also a little bit frustrating that it's like, okay, you could have put a few more minutes on this moment or that moment or give us a little bit more time with, say, Lois and Clark and their relationship. I think what we get of their relationship is great. Rachel Brosnahan and David Cornswett have incredible chemistry and gun rights. Their relationship with a really kind of unique edge to it of, like, you know, in a way, we are diametrically opposed as people. Like, we almost shouldn't work because we see the world in two very different ways. [00:40:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:16] Speaker B: But at the end of the day, what we want for the world is the same thing, and that's why it works. And you know what we want in a partner? We check all the boxes. And so that chemistry is there. And that's great. And they have several really good scenes together. There are moments in the movie where I'm like, I wish you just let that sing a little bit more. I'll sit with. I want to sit with that. Instead of like, okay, we're quickly moving on to the next thing. I kind of feel the same way about Ma and Pa Kent. I'm like, when we're on Kent farm, they're great. They're awesome. The moment with. And I won't spoil, but the moment with PA Kent cried, you know, I cried so easily. It's a great scene. And, you know, I may. I totally willing to accept that I'm alone on this, but I wanted that scene to be a little longer. [00:41:01] Speaker A: I would have taken much more time on Smallville. [00:41:05] Speaker B: So there is a point where it's like we are spending time going into pocket universes and going down rainbow rivers of sci fi sludge and introducing this character and that character. And it's like, okay, this is fun. I'm not enjoying this. I'm glad this stuff's, you know, here, and I'm having fun with it. But it's also like, you have extra real estate. You could work. You know, you could have added this more to this movie or spent a little bit less time on the stuff that feels less, like, emotionally compelling. And I think that's. That those are my. That's kind of the bulk of my only real criticism with this movie is, you know, I think, you know, you had a really. You have a really great thing. Let's just sit with that a little bit more. [00:41:49] Speaker A: No, I think it is a great catch 22 to have to Have a movie that we are so glad is tightly wound the way that it is for just under two hours, but we also could have taken another 30 minutes. It is very much so. And I think it's very clearly intentional. [00:42:05] Speaker B: Because that's a monkey's paw criticism. Yeah. Because it's like, I don't necessarily want to say, like, hey, movie that successfully succinct, you should have been longer like all the other movies that are way too long. But, you know. [00:42:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:18] Speaker A: Well, I would also trade off. So this, I think, at this point forward, because the one thing I would like to bring up that I wish we had more, like, more focus on in the narrative. I feel like we're not hitting spoiler territory. [00:42:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:30] Speaker A: Like I said, I think this movie is fantastic. It's one of the best films this year. [00:42:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:34] Speaker A: It is worth. It is, again, another example of a film that's worth seen at full price in an IMAX Dolby. If you have that nearby or if you just have a regular theater, it needs to be seen on the big screen, in my opinion. [00:42:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:46] Speaker A: Highly recommend. [00:42:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:47] Speaker B: I mean, it's a really pretty great photography in this. [00:42:51] Speaker A: But going right into spoilers, I would add to that that, like, I agree with you when it comes to more PA and Ma Kent, more Smallville action. Because again, when they are introduced, they're seeing where Ma is just yelling at the phone that's on the table and Pa is just working on something randomly. It's like 8am I'm already like, okay, I'm good. They're gonna fucking make me bawl my eyes out. They are so sweet. There's all these one thing that I thought was kind of surprising that, like, there was not more discussion on. But I kind of understand again, monkey's paw thing is the revelation is the fact that, you know, like, the lesson that he has to learn. Yeah. Well, it's really just. Yeah. The fact that after Mr. Terrific tells Superman, listen, I know all those translators. What your parents said about going to Earth and making a harem and doing this and doing that, it's 100% true. Like, there is no. From that point forward, we take it at its word. And I'm not saying Mr. Terrific is lying or that, like, you know, but it does feel weird that it's like he does now have the full thing in the Fortress of Solitude. He could. There is at the end. I kind of thought at the very end of the movie, we were going to get the full message. And while it did have those elements to it still of, like, the. The harem and whatnot. Because I thought it was gonna ultimately be like, we're gonna see that again, but get more context in terms of, like, the translation. Cause again, it's like. It's funny to think that we're in a world where we know that translation from language to language. Sometimes, if you take it as straightforward as possible. [00:44:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:32] Speaker B: The most literal. [00:44:33] Speaker A: The literal transition is the most accurate. [00:44:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:35] Speaker A: And I thought it was like. I thought it would be interesting, though. You're gonna get a moment where it's. [00:44:39] Speaker B: Like, oh, like, they said these things that sound bad in English, but, like, cultural. [00:44:44] Speaker A: But culturally, to Krypton, it's not meant to be this intense of a thing. I will admit that I love what we get instead, which is the Pawn Ma Kent Baby Clark montage, I think is beautiful, the way they. In the movie like that. But, like, I thought it was kind of shocking just to introduce that. That, like, you know, his parents were gonna send them to do that. This really bold change to what we already know. Because, again, since the original Donner film is so iconic. Because of Brando. [00:45:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:13] Speaker A: And Jerrell and Lara and, like, the whole Krypton aspect of that and how they've. There's nothing in those original Donner films that even scream that there could be any ill intent to send him to Earth. This is a take that is unique. [00:45:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:28] Speaker B: It's like, oh, you're kind of doing the invincible thing. Yeah, a little bit like, oh, it turns out Superman was sent here for nefarious purposes. [00:45:36] Speaker A: And hilariously, it's not even like, yeah, take over the world. It's just like, almost like a Zod repopulate. [00:45:42] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a colonist kind of thing. It's like a. Hey, go there and make us live again as a society. [00:45:50] Speaker A: But that is what it's supposed to be. Because I think we've already been told out. Out front that it is what it is. It was a bold choice that they made writing wise. I thought we would have gotten more of a question from Clark. But at the same time, I. [00:46:02] Speaker B: It's interesting you say that, because I have kind of a qualm around that. Although, honestly, maybe just kind of on the flip side, because I. I was surprised that the revelation was so easy. Like, there wasn't more debate over it within the film. Because they're just like, yeah. They're like, oh, no, this is what was actually said. And, yeah, it's 100% accurate. We know that. And everybody just accepts that that's the Thing like everybody just knows that with. With as little exposure as they have to Krypton culture, you know, it's like, okay, that's a little weird and convenient for the villain. [00:46:41] Speaker A: Yeah. But especially when it's like, it's not Mr. Terrific Translating. [00:46:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:46] Speaker A: That it. [00:46:47] Speaker B: Nobody ever like, proves him right. [00:46:49] Speaker A: Human translators where it's like, I bet Krypton is not a one to one one. Yeah. It's one of those things where like, again, there's just a lot going on in this movie that we could have easily gotten more of and really enjoyed that. And I think, like, you know, on the flip side of that, I think the amount of crypto we get is perfect. I don't know if I'd ask for any more. Yeah, I think crypto's perfect because his whole plot of just being basically the Robin to Superman, of just basically, you know, they don't work well together. And then of course by the end of it, they're fighting Planet Watch troopers together. [00:47:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:23] Speaker A: And kicking ass. And I also the fact that the movie doesn't have that many action sequences with Superman in total. But at the same time what we do get is phenomenal, is well choreographed and also shows why, you know, making like, if you make a Superman film. Because we talked about this when we came out of the theater. It was always so funny how people talk about like, you know, there's, you know, there's. Those movies have like a lot of fun action in those original films when like both 1 and 2 really don't. [00:47:57] Speaker B: Original Superman. [00:47:58] Speaker A: Yeah, like Superman 2 is, I guess. [00:47:59] Speaker B: The ones really don't have much action. [00:48:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Like Superman 2 technically has the most, you know, like knuckle. Knuckle dragging, like kind of brawl action. Because it's the first time a Kryptonian has showed up. [00:48:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:09] Speaker A: Well, as in the first one is just like getting rid of missiles, saving people. Iconic Superman stuff. And in this, it's like that middle part, then like that mid act, like the second act does have him in this kind of in a cage then trying to save a baby and then, you know, having to like, you know, heal himself. And then just like ultimately we get to the third act fight, which is fucking rad. It is extended and has layers upon layers upon layers. And also has the reveal of a Superman clone which is like. [00:48:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:42] Speaker A: Which again, I should have known better because when I heard that Ultraman was in the movie, the name sounded familiar. [00:48:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:47] Speaker A: And then when I looked him up after the movie, I said, oh, God damn it. Yeah, of course. It's a Superman clone. I'm not fucking shocked. But I also love the fact that the Superman clone clone, again, is another example of how, like Lex saying brain always meets brawn is so hypocritical and ironic because he's literally using his brain. [00:49:06] Speaker B: Or brawn, to fight brawn. [00:49:07] Speaker A: He's using his brain to create the ultimate brawn. [00:49:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:11] Speaker A: And it's like. It is so funny how, again, Corn Sweat does a phenomenal job as Ultraman in that final scene. And I think with his big old curly head. [00:49:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, his mop. [00:49:24] Speaker A: His mop of hair, which is great. Which is, I think, makes it even, like, younger than when he has a mop ahead for Clark, also a secret MVP of the film, I think, is this really good job. I thought she was going to be annoying, but the character Eve, who is that? Lex's. Lex's girlfriend, who's originally, I think, a Mario Puzo original character in the original Donner films. She, I thought, was going to be someone that people are going to groan about constantly because she is the influencer girlfriend character. [00:49:55] Speaker B: The 21st century and truly. [00:49:58] Speaker A: But her tie to the plot with her and Jimmy is so good. It's well done. The actress does a great job. And I even think ultimately leads into a funny finale where it's like, Jimmy and her are probably gonna be together. And you know what? That's okay. I think they'll be fine. But, yeah, it really just has. I was watching that movie with us in the theater, and I just was like, there's just so much going on. It's constantly moving. And when it does slow down, it doesn't feel like we're gonna be here for that long. Yeah, it's words like, you know it in Superman 2 when, like, you know, Lois finds out who Clark is, and then they go to the Fortress of Solitude. I like that stuff, but that stuff feels like it's 30 minutes long. And then we go to a diner scene that feels like it's a little too long. And then we finally get to the Zod. [00:50:53] Speaker B: This movie got kind of gets how to keep the momentum up. [00:50:56] Speaker A: Yeah. I thought it was funny how someone described this film as, like, Superman 2, but, like, just super fun and way more energetic. And it's like. Yeah, it pretty much is like. I mean, it really is just, like, taking more of it and keeping it down to a Donner length. Which is funny because it's like, I think Donner would have probably made a longer film if he had not been told. All right, make one Film. It's just. It just it. Going into that movie, I think when we were walking into our seats, I genuinely went. I have no idea what to expect other than I hope to God this is good. [00:51:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:32] Speaker B: I mean, I honestly felt like watching the original teaser, I was, you know, fucking soul. This is gonna be phenomenal. This is gonna be the movie that restores hope to superhero movies. Arguably is. But, you know, as we got closer to the release date and you started hearing more about the movie and kind of early reactions and test reactions and also more trailers showed more of the. I started to feel a little more cautious. I was like, oh, God, this is. Looks like it's doing a lot. It's doing a lot that I'm not necessarily that interested in, in terms of bringing characters in and stuff like that. And so I went into this movie, you know, cautiously optimistic. [00:52:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:16] Speaker B: And, yeah, I was just really, really won over by it. And, yeah, I have. I have a few issues, few qualms here and there. But, like, it's. It's such a nice feeling walking out of this movie and being like, oh, this is a movie that not. Is not just an entertaining romp with kooky characters that are fun. It also feels like it's. It really understands and wants to communicate and wants the audience to feel why, like, the fantasy of a superhero is compelling and why that's kind of magical. [00:52:53] Speaker C: Why. [00:52:55] Speaker B: It'S a fantasy, why it's something we wish we had. [00:52:58] Speaker A: It is. Again, there's always been a conversation about, you know, and I think it happened a long time when man of Steel was happening, where I think a lot of DC fans, specifically ones that were way too into that era, who were constantly wanting MC Marvel to fail and not basically be like, DC's better all the way. They make these cool decisions that DC Marvel is always going to fail because this comes out and it's going to be dark and gritty and shit. And then ultimately, it just didn't work the way that it did. But arguably, I think this is the first time in years, I think, ever, where DC has come out with a film that is arguably better than everything we've gotten from Marvel this year, as. [00:53:39] Speaker B: Of now, maybe in a few years. [00:53:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:41] Speaker B: Like, it really is, aside from James. [00:53:43] Speaker A: Gunn's Marvel movie, like, a bit of. I mean, try. I'll try not to spoil it as much, but, like, when we saw Thunderbolts, there's a moment in Thunderbolts towards the end of that movie where I personally went, like, now, I like this scene. But if they go this much farther, I'm fucking game. And that movie does that for about one scene, I think, in my opinion, which is that is the scene where Red Guardian saves little girl. And little girl. [00:54:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:11] Speaker A: That's the best. In my opinion, the best part of that movie is that part. Onward and Superman literally just has moments where I'm like, if they do, they've already fucking done it. They've fucking done it. Like, they just keep. Then they go, I didn't even ask for that. [00:54:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:27] Speaker A: It's just that wholehearted commitment we literally have in this. [00:54:30] Speaker B: We're gonna softball, anything. [00:54:32] Speaker A: Five months ago, we had Marvel getting one of their most prominent characters, a film, a new iteration of one of their most popular characters, giving them a film that they've desperately have been wanting forever. And we've needed for this character because their Disney show was controversial in a lot of ways and had a lot of issues with his captain. Brave New World. And unfortunately, that is a film that feels like it fails its titular hero. [00:55:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:55:00] Speaker B: By not giving it what it wants him to be. [00:55:03] Speaker A: Both Brave New World and Superman had trailers that feel like. I kind of feel like I know how we get from this scene to this scene to this scene. But the in betweens I'm curious about. In Brave New World, you get to a point where you're like, I couldn't give a fuck about anything. In between. [00:55:18] Speaker B: I still haven't got Red Hulk yet and I don't care anymore. [00:55:22] Speaker A: But they're treated like, we're not gonna get him. As if I didn't see the film. And then Superman just has this moment of like, yes. I feel like we'll get Pa and Ma Kent towards the end of the second act into the third act when he's at his lowest. But guess what? I'm still gonna ball like a fucking baby. Cause it's so well done. You know the fight where he's fighting Ultraman in the fucking. You know, the rift clearly is a third act fight. But how we get to that is really well done. You know, all these things you can kind of tell from those Superman trailers, the later trailers that you can probably gauge where it's going to be relatively. But how we get there is an absolute delight. And feels like there is no. Like, we couldn't go this far because it would make Superman look silly or stupid. Like, they just don't. Gun doesn't care. Gunn is like, Superman is cool as hell even when he's at his goofiest. [00:56:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:16] Speaker A: And that's the best way to do. [00:56:17] Speaker B: It movie that says, like, let's just accept that this is silly. That doesn't mean it all has to be goofy fun games. But, like, let's accept that the concept of a, you know, a guy in a like old fashioned circus strongman outfit is flying around and beating people up. That is silly. [00:56:36] Speaker A: I gotta say. It is. [00:56:37] Speaker B: Just go with it. [00:56:38] Speaker A: It is fucked up that James Gunn comes out with the best superhero film of the year so far. If First Steps is better than this movie, I will shit myself. [00:56:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:47] Speaker B: I'll be genuinely shocked. [00:56:49] Speaker A: I will shock. I'm excited for First Steps. I have high hopes for that one as well. But I also know that, like, we kind of are aware that they are gonna be an Avengers Doomsday and. [00:56:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:00] Speaker B: And there's just a lot of baggage where Marvel's at right now. It's like, okay, fun, you know, Thunderbolts, you know, you pulled that off. Pleasantly surprising. I hope First Steps is the same way. [00:57:11] Speaker A: I hope it's better. [00:57:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:13] Speaker B: I honestly, I hope it's a better movie than Thunderbolts and I like Thunderbolts. [00:57:16] Speaker A: But the thing is, is like, like, James Gunn is like, he technically made, I would say, the last great MCU film as of right now, which is Guardians 3. Because everything after Guardians 3 has been, I think, at best, really good. At worst, for the Disney plus stuff, Secret Invasion, Dog shit, unwatchable to be like two to three years later and be like, by the way, I'm about to make the best Superman film we've had in decades. And again, there's. This does not mean that everything that was announced for like the Gods and Monsters, Book one shit is gonna work out like, right? [00:57:52] Speaker B: I mean, there's a lot of. There's a lot of announcements that are like, honestly, even with as much as like the MCU has pulled off and especially like the James Gunn movies pulled off in terms of characters and concepts, those still feel really out there. Yeah, it's like, I don't know if that's gonna actually get. [00:58:09] Speaker A: We're apparently supposed to get a fucking film of the Authority, which we get introduced to, like, one of the heads of the Authority, which is the engineer in this movie. But I would probably say as much as I think is her performance is good and she does a really good job and she's a lot of fun in this movie. She's probably the one character, I think most people wouldn't know what her name is going out of this movie because she's a Lex henchman. [00:58:32] Speaker C: Henchman. [00:58:33] Speaker A: She's a henchwoman. And it's just kind of this thing where I'm curious to see Gun as a supervisor, like a supervisory role when it comes to later stuff. Because next year we're getting Green Lantern as well as. Which we get a little bit of a tease with the end of this movie. Supergirl with Millie Alcock or Al Cook? [00:58:55] Speaker B: Alcock. [00:58:55] Speaker A: Alcock as Kara. And she shows up for a little bit in Superman and is, I think, already nothing like Superman in the best way possible. I'm excited to see. [00:59:07] Speaker B: Gonna be a great contrast. [00:59:08] Speaker A: And I love that she's the tie for Crypto because early in the film he says that, well, he's not technically my dog. [00:59:14] Speaker B: Right. Which was kind of left wondering for a while. [00:59:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And I love that. That's, you know, it is just like, just nice that we were sitting there. We saw this at the. The imax. [00:59:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:27] Speaker A: And the IMAX told us there's a mid and post credit scene. And I couldn't help but love the fact that both of those scenes do not pertain to anything in the future. [00:59:39] Speaker B: They're just like, just sweet. They're just nice notes. They're like little microcosms of the movie. And it's just like, oh yeah. [00:59:47] Speaker A: With one of those microcosms just being like one of the best little Superman moments in a film that has a bunch of huge Superman moments that are phenomenal. But just Clark being like, ah, you're just a real jerk sometimes. Superman to himself. [00:59:59] Speaker B: Well, darn it. Yeah, I can be a real jerk. [01:00:02] Speaker A: And it's so funny how like one of those post credit scenes is like one of the set photos we got early on in the. In like the movie's production. And to think that it's literally just. [01:00:12] Speaker B: Yeah, Stinger. [01:00:15] Speaker A: Again, I want this to kind of. I would hope that they take the energy of Superman and they use that to their advantage to introduce more and more of the Justice League. Because clearly that is a goal to get to a Justice League movie at some point, but also be able to just you know, really keep that momentum and just, you know, hopefully keep people invested in this. Because it's very clear out of this movie. As much as I love the fact that it's so self contained, the reason why we're not doing this as like a. We're gonna wait until a trilogy comes out is because we both believe that this is not gonna probably get. He's not. We're probably not gonna get a Superman 3 anytime soon. Or a 2. [01:00:55] Speaker B: I would imagine moving parts from what it seems. [01:00:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, I mean, Cornswood has already said that he's been attached to a sequel, which is, I would say, good. [01:01:05] Speaker B: James Gunn has said something along that made it kind of sound like, oh, yeah, it might be a sequel to Superman's story, but it won't necessarily be a Superman 2, which is the same thing. He'll probably be in a movie with some other big heroes, and it's gonna be Batman v Superman Legacy. [01:01:22] Speaker A: Oh, God. [01:01:24] Speaker B: Starring Ben Affleck. [01:01:25] Speaker A: That's 5 more psychic damage. But, I mean, it really is just, like. It'll be very curious to see with both Lanterns and Supergirl next year with both of them being directed and co. And written by different people with James as a producer, executive producer role, to see if they can keep the momentum, basically keep the ball in the court that James kind of locked. [01:01:47] Speaker B: Yeah, they. They gun, thankfully, kind of proved with this that, like, okay, you know, he can not only make the jump from Marvel to dc, which wasn't really ever a question for most people. No. But, you know, also, we can do this classic, beloved character some real justice that we haven't had in a long time. But honestly, I think it's after this movie where the real test for the new DC stuff is because it's like, all the obscure shit and, like, wild genre swings they're gonna be taking is like, I don't even think they're bad ideas. I think they're. A lot of them are great ideas. But it's like, does the. Will the audience be there? Like, will people buy in? [01:02:28] Speaker A: Will. Will the audience be able to cross over through television more as frequently as they go see a movie or vice versa or whatever? [01:02:38] Speaker B: Or can they thread the needle such that, like, keeping up with all of it is rewarding but unnecessary? God, if, you know, that was something that the MCU struggled with once they started doing Disney plus shows, is like. Which now that really blurred that line between whether you had to watch shows or not. [01:02:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And again, now that we were aware of, like, Disney being outright honest, that, like, Marvel kind of was forced to do those shows, and now they are kind of, like, pulling back. Pulling back as well as kind of like, you know, zoning out and getting all the ones they want to get out. Now I think we have two, three. I know House of Vision is the last Marvel show that's supposed to come out. It's called House of Vision or something like that. It might be Vision Quest. It's based off of the Vision arc that has, like, all of his family are all vision, because we have. We have, like, the Wakanda show that's like two or three episodes. We have Power man, which we haven't heard anything about. Ironheart came out, and Ironheart, I think, had the reception that I think most people were not surprised by, which is just. It's a Disney show. There's some good elements to it. There's a lot of. From what I've seen from Ironheart, of clips and stuff, there's a lot of character to the show, and I think there's a lot of diversity in a way that I think is just really well done ensemble wise. But it's also the show that's just introduced a character that like. Or a villain antagonist that, like, Marvel fans have just been crazy about for a while. And I remember hearing that he was in Ironheart, and I just went, I couldn't care less. [01:04:15] Speaker B: Nobody seems to care. Which is hilarious, because a few years ago, it seemed like, you know, people were gonna rip Kevin Feige's throat out if WandaVision didn't reveal the character. [01:04:25] Speaker A: Because we're at a point now where they're phasing out all of their shows to an extent, like the last of their shows. It is going to be interesting to see, you know, Gun being like, we're not being forced to make these shows. This is something we want to do, and we want to work with creatives that want to do this. [01:04:42] Speaker B: And we're not making these to fill in a puzzle piece for the larger picture. No, making them because they're interesting movies to us. [01:04:48] Speaker A: Like, literally the first introduction to probably our mainstay Green Lantern of the Justice League is what, as Wonder Woman will probably be introduced in the Green Lantern space cop show and the prequel. Ish. Like, old history. Thera Mascara show. And then, like, you know, it's one of those things where it's like when he introduced all those books, like, all the stuff he wants to do in book one, it is kind of like, I'm curious to see how they're gonna be like, there's the Lanterns, there's Supergirl, and then there's Amanda Waller. And it's like, listen, I love Viola Davis. But, like, what is. Okay, let's just see. Yeah, I think you're right where it's like, this point forward, this movie being as fantastic say it again as it is. It is a little zip. It's gonna be interesting how they keep that momentum, especially since the only thing in between Lantern and Supergirl from this point forward is going to be Peacemaker, which I'm excited for Peacemaker Season 2 because Peacemaker Season 1 was so much better than it had any right to be for a character that I think most people would have just called John Cena. [01:05:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:53] Speaker A: When they talk about the Suicide Squad and now they just. He makes a fucking cameo in this movie. It's like. To see Peacemaker, a D ranked, like, antagonist, be a cameo in this. [01:06:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:05] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, we're both. I think we're both interested to see where it goes, but I think ultimately, I think we're both happy that this movie is just, like, regardless of what happens to the dcu, James Gunn, Superman is great by itself. Yeah, it is. [01:06:19] Speaker C: Yeah. If. [01:06:20] Speaker B: If it crashes and burns at the box office and we never get another James Gunn DC film, like, at least we got this. [01:06:27] Speaker A: And I would. And I'd be sad as shit because I want more corn sweat. I want Brosnan, corn sweat. And Holt. But we'll have so good. He's so fucking good. [01:06:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:37] Speaker A: But we'll see. But, yeah. Thank you so much for listening. As of this recording, I think we're about a week and a half away from our final July trilogy, which, of course, we've talked about, which is our not so Fantastic Four trilogy, covering the other three times, the other three iterations of starting a cinematic Fantastic Four film, and the ebbs and flows of what that creation could be in the 90s, the 2000s, and the 2010s. Spoiler alert. Only one of those films got a sequel. [01:07:09] Speaker B: Quite the eclectic collection of movies, considering they're all adapting the same thing. [01:07:16] Speaker A: But, yeah, thank you so much for listening. We'll see you around that time in about a week and a half. [01:07:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:07:24] Speaker A: Superman. Great. He can fly. If you haven't listened. Lex Evil. If you haven't listened to our Superman sequels episode, we would love you if you did. Yeah, please do. If you. If you want more. Hope, Maxine, you're not really gonna get it from our conversations about those movies, but they are fun to talk about. So, yeah, thank you so much for listening. Bye.