Episode 105: The Superman Sequels

[00:00:19] Speaker A: It's a bird, it's a plane. It's our trilogies with Logan and Andy. Hi, I'm Logan Soos. [00:00:23] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:00:24] Speaker A: And on our trilogies, we take a trio of films where they're tied by cast and crew thematic elements or just numerical order, and we talk about the good, the bad, and the weird surrounding each film. And today, in honor of a huge release, July is just filled with huge releases. And while we're already going to be covering or at this point, it should be out by now, a quickie talking about the new Jurassic World. Since we've already covered every single Jurassic park and world film at this point, no, we will not be doing the Netflix series. Series. The cartoon show settled down, but we will. You know, we've already talked about Rebirth. Now it's time to talk about a trio of films that tie into. In honor of James Gunn's new interpretation of Superman, the first Superman film, solo Superman film in 12 years. [00:01:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:14] Speaker A: Man of Steel's 2013. [00:01:15] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:01:16] Speaker A: So in honor of that, we thought we'd go way back, not 2013, not 2006, with a Brandon Routh film, way back to the late 70s, all the way to the late 80s, to talk about the original Superman sequels. Because here's the thing. When it comes to Superman, I mean, we even see it now with James Gunn's Superman in terms of the posters, in terms of the conversation surrounding the film, everything about the energy this film is trying to exude is basically not trying to be Richard Donner Superman again, but clearly be aware of the fact. [00:01:52] Speaker B: And return to that spirit. [00:01:54] Speaker A: Ye. [00:01:55] Speaker B: Because they're even using the. The music to sell the film. John Williams score. [00:01:59] Speaker A: The posters literally have the little tiny boxes at the very bottom of the poster to show instead of it being just like. Because in the original Superman, that's basically meant to be like, see, look, Marlon Brando Gene hack. [00:02:11] Speaker B: Yeah, little headshots. [00:02:14] Speaker A: Now they're using it for Mr. Terrific in Guy Gardner's bowl. Cut. [00:02:18] Speaker B: Right. [00:02:18] Speaker A: Which is hilarious. And so in honor of James Gunn Superman, we thought we'd go back and look at what happens when you create the true blue great superhero blockbuster in the late 70s in an era where the term blockbuster is still very new. [00:02:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:37] Speaker A: I mean, at this point, Richard Donner's Superman comes out in 78. Star wars is 77, Jaws is 75. [00:02:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:46] Speaker A: Jaws is the first film channel shout. [00:02:47] Speaker B: Out 50 years job. [00:02:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Shout out to 50 years of Jaws. Which Spielberg goes, it's good. [00:02:52] Speaker B: I liked it. [00:02:53] Speaker A: Hey, I'M glad he did for a film that gave him so much trauma just to get that shark to work. But in honor of one of the probably true blue late 70s blockbusters that really now cement especially with the superhero genre in classic odd trilogies fashion, it's always fun just to ask, well, what about the films after the true blue classic. [00:03:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:03:17] Speaker B: Where do you go from there? [00:03:18] Speaker A: Because what's so funny about the original super is that. Well, before we actually, before we get into the sequels, Andy set the stand set like the. Set the table for year. And like, how do you feel about the original Donner Superman? [00:03:33] Speaker B: So truthfully, it's never really been like a huge part of my, like, reference catalog for Superman movies. I didn't see it until I was not an adult, but older. It wasn't a movie I grew up with. Not a movie I've watched many times. I think I've just seen it twice. Once being for this podcast and always admired the shit out of what Reeve and Donner both pulled off in that movie at that time and what Reeve continues to pull off in these sequels that we're going to talk about. You know, he's an incredible Superman. He's the one kind of the one live action Superman we've gotten who just like, truly got it through and through and was allowed to get it, you know, in the script. But yeah, it's not a movie that's been on rotation for me. It's like, obviously influential. But I wouldn't say I like, love it to death. [00:04:33] Speaker A: That's fair. [00:04:34] Speaker B: I enjoy it and I appreciate its place. [00:04:37] Speaker A: No, I agree with that. I would say I do like it, I think more than you do. But I am in a position where I, as much as I think this film in terms of like, monumental. It makes me want to throw up in my mouth. But it's at this point, it's decades in like, superhero cinema type situation. Mount Rushmore. [00:04:56] Speaker B: This should be the first superhero cinema. Kind of an oxymoron. [00:04:59] Speaker A: I know. [00:05:00] Speaker B: It's more like a roller coaster, you know, superhero keynote. [00:05:06] Speaker A: Okay, but like the Mount Rushmore of like, the classic superhero films that got us to where we are now. But both good and bad reasons, Donner Superman is of course, the film that basically showed studios as well as an audience that you can take a character that is seemingly four kids at the time. [00:05:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:26] Speaker A: And turn him into a blockbuster hit that, you know, is open to everybody to enjoy. [00:05:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:05:33] Speaker A: And genuinely, even though it's hilarious to say because, you know, the poster in the original film constantly Says you will believe a man will fly. It was a film that really impacted a lot of people of that generation to a degree where, like, even going into now, I mean, it's like. It's hilarious how it doesn't mean this. This doesn't mean anything in terms of, like, the quality of this film. But, like, you know, when Patty Jenkins was going on for Wonder Woman 84. [00:06:00] Speaker B: Oh, right. [00:06:01] Speaker A: She literally said outright, you know, like, some people loved Star wars as, like, their thing that, like, really was. They watched over and over until the tape blew out. Her film was Donner Superman, and was very impactful for her as a director, as a storyteller. And many people, when they talk about the original Superman, it is usually in that vein, because this movie, flaws and all, just understands Superman in a way that is just like. You definitely understand how that happens because of Donner, because of the writers behind it, which, hilariously enough, both 1 and 2, or at least the Donner cut of 2, are kind of have a screenplay by Mario Puzo, who I believe is the writer for the Godfather. [00:06:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:48] Speaker A: Which is insane to think that he wrote the script for these two. But the original Superman is like a two, two and a half hour. Just, like, commits to Krypton, it commits to Marlon Brando as Jerrell. [00:07:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:01] Speaker A: It has evil. Evil Kryptonians in pajamas that come back in two. [00:07:07] Speaker B: And it's truly an epic in that it, like, you know, the scope of it and the time it spends with everything. I mean, it spends an admirable amount of time pre Reeve, like, you know, with young Clark and the Krypton stuff, I would say. [00:07:21] Speaker A: And this is all coming from someone who didn't, I think, fully watch the series initially. And even the first film. And full until middle school, high school. Like, I bought like, a DVD set that had the original Reeves film Reeve films. And I remember watching the first Superman in high school and being like, this movie just works. Even though it's silly how young Clark runs when he's, like, running with the train. Or like, of course, the iconic ending to Superman 1, which we'll get more into with 2, where he goes back in time by spinning the earth backwards. There's just a commitment and an earnestness that is something that, to be honest, I don't feel like. You know, I think most people who go back now, especially in our generation, probably go like, oh, that's kind of like Raimi's Spider Man. [00:08:08] Speaker C: Sure. [00:08:09] Speaker A: It has that kind of energy of like, this. This earnestness of the golden age. Like the silly Age of comics and takes it as serious as you can. [00:08:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:20] Speaker A: Without feeling like it's going a little too. All right, settle down. [00:08:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:24] Speaker A: And it's interesting about that original Superman because going into talking about our films today, Superman ii, for the longest time, I never knew that. I definitely. We both knew about the Richard Donner cut. Yeah, we both knew that Richard Donner, during the production of two, was basically, you know, unceremoniously pushed out. He was fired, and then he's replaced by director Richard Lester, who actually, hilariously enough, I found a trilogy that we could do about him in the process of doing this trilogy, because he apparently is most notably known for the Three Musketeers films, which there are three of, and two of them are in the Criterion Collection. So I was like, hey, that might be something we do in the future. But Richard Lester, initially, he also did. [00:09:10] Speaker B: The, like, at least a couple of the Beatles movies, didn't he? [00:09:13] Speaker A: I think he did Hard Day's Night. I thought, yeah, yeah, it's like early years of Lester. But Richard Lester was originally brought on, I think, as kind of a mediator between the Salkinds or the Salkins, which is Alexander and Ilia, who are basically the ones that get the Superman rights. In the early six, early to mid-70s, they have an idea for making a Superman film. They go into it with the screenwriters in mind. The screenwriters work on it even before Donner's involved. Donner gets involved. And then they came up with a crazy idea that I didn't know about until we did the watch through for these sequels, which is shoot Superman 1 and Superman 2 consecutively. [00:09:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:09:54] Speaker A: Like, simultaneously, they were shooting scenes for 1 and 2 from the span of 3-6-77 to, like, 10/78. And that's insane because both of these films have a. I think have 55 million said for both of them, which, if you just do, like, a quick Google search for, like, inflation at the time, it's like half a billion dollars almost for, like, two superhero films in the 70s. [00:10:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:25] Speaker A: 55 million is insane for a man that wears a blue and red jumpsuit with a yellow insignia. [00:10:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:32] Speaker B: And just a concept that, like, you're not even sure is gonna work with a wider audience. [00:10:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:38] Speaker A: So the. So what happens is these shoots one and two together, or at least a majority of two. The sake. Or sakes basically tell Donner, hey, we should probably just at least get one out of. Out of the gate instead of, like, hoping both of these films work. So in the. In the response to that, the Ending to one was supposed to be the ending to Superman. [00:10:59] Speaker C: Right. [00:11:00] Speaker A: And so they decided, I'll just put that in Superman 1. We'll see how people like it. The movie is a fucking hit. 300 million. [00:11:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:08] Speaker A: At the box office it's gangbusters. And everyone involves like, holy shit, this movie was a hit. We gotta go back into two. Well, in the process of doing two, I believe the producers realized that Donner was not really given a budget. Apparently one of the big contentious points is that the talking say that like Donner went over budget. Donner said, I was never given a budget. So there's kind of this like back and forth. And then Lester is brought in almost as a mediary and try to like mediate between the two of them. Mediator. And then Donner gets pushed out and then they go, Lester, you've directed things, why don't you do this? And so in the process of that, the theatrical cut of Superman 2, in order, I believe for the director's guild to count this film as a film as your own, you have to shoot more than half of the film. So Superman 2's theatrical cut basically adds a solid 30 minutes of new content, cuts a bunch of stuff out, cuts all the Brando out. Because apparently Brando's. Brando's like kind of agency was basically saying they had to pay him millions of dollars just to use him. [00:12:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean he. I think Brando didn't claim that he didn't get his like box office back end from the first film. And so he sued for that and tried to file a restraining order to prevent them to. From using his likeness. [00:12:38] Speaker A: It's Brando. [00:12:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:39] Speaker B: And I think his restraining order was. Well, it was obviously thrown out, but he did get some money out of the, out of the suit. [00:12:46] Speaker A: But in Superman 1 they introduced the idea of General Zod and his cronies. His two, the tall scary one and the female one. It's kind of basically what they are. I think it's Ursa. [00:13:00] Speaker B: Ursa Major and. [00:13:02] Speaker A: Yeah, Nom N o M or N o M M. Whatever. [00:13:05] Speaker B: Yeah, right. [00:13:06] Speaker A: The beginning of Superman 1 basically focuses on that and Jerrel and Krypton and basically going into Superman 2, the Sawkins. The producers thought that people were not going to remember, even though it's a two year gap between 1 and 2's release, they did not think people were going to remember what happened in Superman 1. So the theatrical cut of Superman 2 starts with. Starts with a kind of a montage of what happens in one, except Lester shoots a new scene. It 4:2, which is basically like showing Zod and company, I think, try to steal something. And it's the bait and switch. [00:13:46] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:13:47] Speaker A: And to fill in that gap. And I gotta say, you can tell out the gate which stuff is from the Donner original and which stuff is from Lester's. [00:13:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:00] Speaker A: Because we're gonna go into this being completely honest. Superman 2 is still widely regarded as a great film by many. [00:14:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:10] Speaker A: As a great sequel. I mean, many people, when they talk about the RE films, they usually just disown three and four and say that one is great and two pretty good. Yeah. Well, two is not a Donner original. Two is still a good Superman movie. We don't entirely agree. I think it gets to a. Gets to a light. 3 out of 5. Just with the ending. Mainly because it basically gets to a point in the film where it goes, okay, now we're just gonna use Donner stuff again. [00:14:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:44] Speaker A: Basically, when Lex comes back into play in two, when he shows up at the White House onward, it feels like it has a bit more juice and a bit more energy than it did for the last 30 minutes. Because the funniest thing about two that I think it's weird that no one really talks about as much but General Zod, you know, the Terence Stamp who fucking kills it in this movie. And it's clearly one of the reasons why people like this movie so much is because Terence Stamp's performance, he is committing to it. He also is one of the only people going into Superman 2 with Lester who is not mean to Lester for being a part of. For being a director on this movie. Unlike Hackman and Kidder, who basically just like Hackman, basically didn't reshoot anything in this movie. So basically any lines that sound like a Gene Hackman impersonation are Gene Hackman impersonator. And there's one scene I know I have to know for a fact is a shot where it's just from Lex's back and it's just a guy dressed. [00:15:46] Speaker B: Up as Lex Luther. [00:15:47] Speaker A: It's at the very end of the movie. But, like, clearly that was an added scene. And then Kidder, who basically on the press junket for two shat on how they treated Donner and what they did for two basically gets written out of three. Yeah, but Terence Stan was one of the only people who was like, hey, it's the industry. He's doing the best he can. Which, honestly, I'm kind of in that point with Superman 2 where I feel like with Superman 2, theatrical cut. Lester clearly is in a space where it's like, this is not what I was intended to do when it came to this production. But God damn it, I will do the best I can. [00:16:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:22] Speaker A: To get more laughs in there, to get more hijinks, more action. Because if you go by the Richard Donner cut of this film, which you can get now, which has been out since, like, 2006. [00:16:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:35] Speaker A: The Richard Donner cut, honestly, is very light on action. Not in a bad way. It's more dramatic. But the action is clearly amped up more in Lester's cut to a come to a cartoonish degree. [00:16:48] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:16:48] Speaker A: In a way that feels very much like producers being like, add more action. [00:16:52] Speaker B: Two is so. Like, the theatrical cut is so hammy. [00:16:56] Speaker A: It is just so. [00:16:58] Speaker B: So silly. And, like, not entirely in a bad way, although sometimes in a bad way. [00:17:02] Speaker A: No. Because Donner's. Donner's original vision in terms of how Zod and his team. Because in the first film, Marlon Brando, Jor? El, and like, the council of old white men that are part of the Krypton Council, basically put him in the Phantom Zone with his cronies in the Phantom Zone as a. Is an effect that was probably really cool in the late 70s. Now it's just kind of funny to think that's what the Phantom Zone is. [00:17:28] Speaker B: It's a prison. [00:17:29] Speaker A: So many people. Just a prism originally. And then you see this in the Donner cut. It was supposed to be the missiles that he deflects at the end of one. Superman deflects at the end of one into space during Lex Luthor's evil scheme. Those were supposed to be the one that explodes. [00:17:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:48] Speaker A: And releases Zod and his CO from the prism. But since Lester had to have more of his own stuff, as well as the producers being like, I don't think anyone's gonna remember that. Don't even worry about this. [00:18:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:03] Speaker A: They write a new reason for why Zod and company get out of the prison, which is there are a bunch of terrorists in Paris who have a nuclear bomb, and the bomb accidentally gets set off when they don't mean it to. Or at least the countdown goes down. Superman has to take the bomb from Paris and just throws it into space and then basically does the same thing that, you know, the Superman 1 stuff would have done. [00:18:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:30] Speaker A: It's funny how the Donnerca basically goes like. And we just used the footage from one, and there we go. That's what it would have been. It's like, clearly this is added to Be sillier because this whole situation is low as being an absolute dumbass and. [00:18:43] Speaker B: Getting stuck on the bottom of the elevator. [00:18:45] Speaker A: Yeah, well, a nuke is on the elevator. But also, yeah, to be sillier, it also has our first Harry Potter alum in there because one of the. One of the Paris, the Parisian terrorists is Mr. Dursley. [00:19:00] Speaker B: Yeah, Vernon. [00:19:01] Speaker A: Vernon. [00:19:02] Speaker B: Yeah, Uncle Vernon. [00:19:02] Speaker A: Yeah, Uncle Vernon. Which is funny to see him without a mustache. [00:19:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:06] Speaker A: In the late 70s, but yeah, Hazard gets out of prison with his cronies. And then the theatrical cut of Superman 2. Basically, Zod and Superman do not intertwine in each other's plots until 90 minutes. [00:19:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:27] Speaker A: Of a two hour film. Before they intertwine, it is literally Superman and Superman and Lois, you know, bonding as well as Lois discovering Superman's identity. Then of course, he gives up because apparently in this film he can't. Can't have a girlfriend and also fight crime. He can't love somebody and also be Superman, so he has to give up his powers. Which leads to this weird scene where like, he loses powers, they go to a diner and there's a douchebag and he almost forgets, like he doesn't have super strength anymore. [00:20:01] Speaker B: Picks a fight, gets his ass beat. [00:20:03] Speaker A: Don't worry, guys. Both cuts end with him getting come up and song as if I care. Right? And then in that fight, which again, the diner fights like 90 minutes in, is when we see on the television that Zod has taken over the White House. Which is while Superman is just having a love story. [00:20:21] Speaker C: God. [00:20:22] Speaker B: The Zod fight is after the comeuppance at the diner. [00:20:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:26] Speaker B: Jesus. Yeah, I forgot about that. [00:20:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, no, so you mean like the comeuppance, like the guy getting like sat on the bar and thrown over. That's the finale. [00:20:35] Speaker B: Oh, okay, But I'm saying when Clark. [00:20:37] Speaker A: Gets his ass beat. [00:20:38] Speaker B: Okay, okay. [00:20:39] Speaker A: But while all this is happening, Zod and company basically land on the moon, realize that like, holy shit, we have superpowers, go down to earth, which they believe is called Houston because they run into a bunch of astronauts that keep saying Houston, we have a problem. So they go down the Houston and then go to actual Texas, I believe. And then for the next 45 minutes, it is just Zod and company tearing. [00:21:06] Speaker B: Shit up in Texas, like fucking around. [00:21:08] Speaker A: Yeah, they're not even. They're not killing anybody. [00:21:11] Speaker B: They're not breaking things. [00:21:13] Speaker A: They're having guns shot at them and it does nothing. Yeah, they go to the. They go to the coolest, silliest Burger King. I've ever seen. Which is like a saloon. [00:21:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:21:22] Speaker A: Because the fucking one Texas town they go to is a saloon. Saloon. And that's a Burger King. And they just beat people up in there. Because there's one guy that wants to, like, arm wrestle Ursa and then Ursa beats him up. Like, it's all goofy. That I know as a kid in 1980, probably ate that up like crazy. And Zod, just like Terence Stamp, just has such an aura with Zod that it's like this. Having fun. They're. It's funny. That stuff is probably the most genuine, genuinely funny stuff. Mainly because it is them not understanding that Houston is not the planet. That guns are like this. It's like it's slowly. They're slowly realizing. It's also the scene where Zod walks on water in front of a fisherman and he thinks his coffee is, like, laced with something. [00:22:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:12] Speaker A: Like, it's all antics in Superman 2. And the antics are fine. Like, I understand liking Superman 22 and feeling like Superman 2 is a. Is a solid sequel to the first one, because it really. It is. But. [00:22:25] Speaker B: Yes. [00:22:26] Speaker A: But the thing is, is, like, I'm completely honest and I know this is going to sound like a broken record for people out there who probably have seen these films a hundred times. The Donner cut at least has a bit more sauce. Mainly because Donner just had more sauce. [00:22:42] Speaker B: Better director. [00:22:43] Speaker A: He just like. Yeah. Like, I think Lester again, is basically dealing with a hand where it's like throwing three quarters. Not his. [00:22:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:50] Speaker A: And has to figure out how to get, like a full house out of nothing. [00:22:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:52] Speaker B: Once. And wants to repurpose it into something his own, too. [00:22:56] Speaker A: And he does in a way that is like, it's still profitable. It's still successful. People still critically enjoy it. Not as successful as the first film, but, I mean, at the time it makes sense why that is the case. But, like, it is. It is interesting going into this. Me remembering, like, in high school, I remember liking two a lot, not liking three that much. In four is dog. And then going into two being like, I'm kind of bored. [00:23:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:23] Speaker A: Like, this is fine in two. Yeah. [00:23:26] Speaker B: This time around. [00:23:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:27] Speaker A: When they go to Paris, I'm like, this is hilariously stupid. [00:23:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:31] Speaker A: I know this is supposed to, like, fill in a blank, but that's funny. [00:23:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:35] Speaker B: I mean, the movie, like, starts out kind of like dumb fun. And you're like, okay, this is like, yeah. Feels lower brow even than the first one, but somehow there's still some energy here and some fun. With that Paris sequence. But yeah, then it just becomes like. It's like every subplot is the B plot. Like there is no A plot and everybody's just fucking around on their own little path. Yeah. I mean, the movie kind of crawls, I think. [00:24:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:07] Speaker A: It's. It's very clear with Donner's interpretation of the like of two. What he wanted to do is have this energy of, like, Clark losing something almost in every film, in a sense. And like the first film, because apparently the first one was supposed to end with like a volcano scene or some big set piece that was too expensive, so they couldn't do that, so they shot other stuff. And then when they wanted to finish two or finish one, they were like, oh, I guess we'll just. Just use the end of two. And they shoved it in the head. [00:24:37] Speaker B: Yeah. So the whole. The whole time going back in time, flying around the planet thing was meant to be the end. [00:24:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:44] Speaker A: So much so that when the Donner cut basically has to figure out how to end two, they just do it again. Because they don't like how Lester's cut goes. Because Lester's cut basically is. Superman wins. He uses. He basically tricks. [00:25:01] Speaker B: Tricks giving up their powers. [00:25:03] Speaker A: There's like a chamber that gets rid of his powers in the movie. [00:25:07] Speaker B: Yeah, that's like the middle of the film is him deciding to give up his powers to. To be in love with Lois. [00:25:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:14] Speaker B: And then which hot take here, I think is just like a really shitty part of the movie where it's just like. [00:25:21] Speaker A: It is. It is something working watching this. [00:25:23] Speaker B: They're trying to do the, like, hero's choice of like, oh, do I give up this life to. To be with the woman I love? But, like, it's just so. The movie loses so much steam when it goes into that part at this point, too. [00:25:36] Speaker A: We're in an era where, like, Spider man no More doesn't exist at this point, where it's like, that is a more interesting version of what this is. And yes, we do like Marvel probably a bit more in some way shape or form and Spider Man. But, like, that is more interesting because at least in that kind of narrative, it is a mix of like, is he actually losing his powers or is it something that is, like, mentally affecting him? [00:25:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:00] Speaker A: And how does he get those back? And like, Raimi's. Like Raimi's 2 basically covers that. And then in Superman 2, it's like either cut was going to focus on that in some way, shape or form. And it's like Superman at that point, I can see as, like, a narrative of, like, he is he. The most tragic thing about Superman is that, again, in the first film, why I think Donner is. Just knows exactly what makes him tick in a way that makes audiences captivated by Superman is when, you know, Pa Kent dies of a heart attack. [00:26:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:35] Speaker A: And Superman can't do anything about it because he can have all the powers in the fucking world and it won't do anything to nature. He's still. He has the powers of a God, quote unquote. But he is not God. [00:26:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:48] Speaker A: In a Christian sense. And, like. Which he's grown up in a small town, so that's kind of what he would probably believe in his head and in terms of that sense of godhood. And so, like, in two, it has that energy of, like, you know, I can't always do this forever. And I finally found someone who understands me. And it's all. It's interesting, too, because I think both cuts, like, completely cut Lois's opinion out of it. [00:27:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:16] Speaker A: Where it's like, Lois. It's interesting because, like, Lois loves Superman, not necessarily Clark Kent. And there's no real conversation in either cuts about, like, does she. [00:27:26] Speaker B: And again, weirdly, the movie is kind of like Clark erasure in a weird way. [00:27:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:27:32] Speaker B: It's like in this, Clark and Superman feel more like one person instead. I mean, obviously they are, but, like, there is less. We lose kind of that distinction in the two lives that he lives. [00:27:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Because there are certain. And you can take the concept of Clark as a sense that it is still. It is Kal El as a person, not him putting on a show or a joke, which is kind of what these films, at a certain point, treat Clark as. As if Kal El is just pretending to be the goofiest motherfucker to ever exist. And it's interesting how in that first film, it kind of has. You don't really have to talk about it as much because it's more interest. It's an origin story. Now that we know how he gets to Clark, let's, you know, let's do all the things you want to see in a Superman film. He saves the cat from a tree, saves a little girl. He does this. And it's, you know, at this point, with two, it has this energy of just like. I don't know. I guess if he's got to give it up, he'll give it up for her. And it's like, well, we are an hour and 15 in, buddy. [00:28:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:43] Speaker A: We got another 45 he's got to get those powers back. And here's where I would say is the point of contention in terms of where I think this is lazy or I think clearly this is not the strongest thing they could have done is the fact that once he's like, I need to get my powers back, in both cuts, he just gets his powers back immediately. [00:29:01] Speaker B: There's, like, no consequence to the choice. [00:29:03] Speaker A: And the Donner cut, the consequences as he. He will lose contact. His connection with his father in terms of, like, the Fortress of Solitude and stuff. But, like, in the theatrical cut, he just goes back into the chamber, the molecule chamber. Like, let's see if it reverses it. And it fucking does. He's fine. [00:29:19] Speaker B: Even to make the Jor El connection, the consequence in the Donner cut is not like. It's not something that's, like, really developed that heavily in the first movie or throughout this movie. You know, I'm not the biggest fan of, like, man of Steel, but I think that movie spends a lot more time kind of like with. With Kal El, you know, longing to understand his Kryptonian. [00:29:44] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. [00:29:45] Speaker B: Roots and stuff. So, yeah, even then it's not like that big of a trade off. So it still feels like, okay, he just gets his power. [00:29:53] Speaker A: I mean, I'm. I remember when we talked about, man, still. I remember just like, it. I do think the most interesting stuff in that movie is when he is a kid being like, do I just let people die? [00:30:04] Speaker C: Right. Yeah. [00:30:04] Speaker A: And then his dad just being like, I don't know. I don't know, man. I guess. But I feel bad if I say. [00:30:12] Speaker B: That he just holds up his hand. [00:30:14] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's just. It's. It is. You know, again, it's a different era of Superman. It is. It is very much so. Something where, like, we have. We. We are not even close to the death of Superman in that sense, where it's like his. His biggest comic to a degree. [00:30:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:33] Speaker A: In terms of. In terms of just, like, notoriety. [00:30:35] Speaker B: Was that mid-80s. [00:30:36] Speaker A: Is that. That was late 80s. Like, I thought late 80s, early 90s. Because it kind of just maybe. [00:30:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:42] Speaker A: Because at that point, because, like, it feels like the death of Superman should not exist at the same time. What time? [00:30:48] Speaker B: 92. [00:30:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Because it doesn't feel like the death of Superman should exist in an era where Christopher leaves Christopher Ree. Superman is still around. [00:30:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:55] Speaker A: The same way that the Dark Knight Returns shouldn't exist when Adam West Batman is around. Like, it has this energy of, like. [00:31:03] Speaker B: Distinct eras of the character. [00:31:05] Speaker A: Yeah. One trying to really, you know, humanize him to a point where we're gonna kill him. And the other side being like, the humanity aspect is just, I really love her dad or mom. And Fantral cut. Because we can't use Marlon Brando. So I'm really going to do this and I'm not going to make any mistakes on this. And of course he makes a mistake. He goes back to becoming Superman. In this whole time, Zod and company take over the White House. That's a fun little set piece where, like, you know, nothing anyone can do can hurt them. Leads to the classic kneel before Zod because they're shooting in the President's office. Neil. Neil before Zod. Like that. Which of course, the Donner cut, which, in case need more clarification, the Richard Donner cut came out in the mid 2000s. I think we said that already. But it was a cut that Warner Brothers actually wanted to get made at a certain point. And Donner was like, eh. [00:32:02] Speaker B: Until they kept asking, like they wanted him to come finish it. And he had no interest. [00:32:07] Speaker A: Until the mid-2000s, when Bryan Singer was making Superman Returns, that film was able to get the license to use Brando's likeness for that film. Because that film is basically trying to be the quote unquote, real Superman 3. [00:32:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:24] Speaker A: I did not watch this for the podcast. I told Andy I would. I thought about it. I thought if I would come back from that. But to be honest, it's two and a half hours. [00:32:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:31] Speaker A: And it's fucking long. [00:32:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a long two and a half. [00:32:35] Speaker A: It's slow. It. For a film that is supposed to feel like the grand old Reeve days, it's really. It's not Reeve. [00:32:43] Speaker B: Superman with depression. [00:32:45] Speaker A: I really honestly would have taken more hijinks and Superman Returns if I could. Not a bad movie, per se. Again, haven't seen it in years. But it is boring. Is a way that I could describe a lot of that film. [00:32:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:56] Speaker A: But in the process of doing Superman Returns, getting the rights to Brando's likeness, they were like, well, now the Warner Brothers has the likeness again. Maybe you want to do it. And apparently what most people say is that Donner never fully edited the film himself, but he was brought in as like a consultant. And like, rumor has it, he basically just took over at times, which makes a lot of sense. Would you give Superman Returns 3? Yeah, I feel it's pretty solid. It's a solid 3. It's. It's. You know, it is, you know, the Donner cut Which is probably the last thing I think Donner ever did before. [00:33:35] Speaker B: His passing, unfortunately. [00:33:39] Speaker A: Is a great example of just again, reminding people just why that first film vastly over, like, vastly outperforms too visually, tonally, score wise. Because Donner's more interpretation is. Even though it is about, like him giving up his powers for love, there is a more focus on building up to that in a less hijinked way. Because in that film, it's like all the Lois Lane scenes trying to kill herself. It is. It's much like. There's one that is, of course, silly, but I think not over the top. [00:34:17] Speaker B: Niagara Falls. [00:34:18] Speaker A: That is in the Richard Lester cut. [00:34:20] Speaker B: Oh, right, right. [00:34:22] Speaker A: No, it's the one where she jumps out the window. [00:34:23] Speaker B: Oh, sure. [00:34:24] Speaker A: It's just the right amount of cheese on the Dunner cut with that one. But in the Richard Lester cut, she basically, after the Paris scene, she's like drinking orange juice constantly. She wants to eat healthier. [00:34:35] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:34:36] Speaker A: You know, she wants to. She has a new lease on life. And then, of course, in the theatrical cut, she sees that Clark falls in the fireplace or. Yes. What happens is they basically take the scene in Niagara Falls where she takes the glasses off and that takes that as the. Hold on a second. [00:34:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I think Superman. [00:34:57] Speaker A: And then she jumps into Niagara Falls, which leads to, I think, one of the genuinely funny scenes in the movie where super, like, Clark has to be like, do I become Superman and prove her right or do I find a way as Clark to save her? [00:35:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:09] Speaker A: And finds a way to use Superman powers as Clark without giving it away. And again, that's a fun scene where it's like Lester understands to an extent what makes the Donner. The Donner stuff work in the first film where it's like, Donner had fun with that at times, but at the end of the day, Superman 2 is noticeably lesser, in my opinion. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that this is a film that has the cast from the original film. Basically that. And basically, since a lot of the people didn't want to come back to shoot extended mcines, you know, Hackman, Nepdy. I don't think had any interest, like, had any kind of ill will towards Lester. But the fact that he is even billed higher than, like, Terence Stamp is hilarious because he's in two scenes. Jackie Cooper, who plays Perry White, I believe, is in this film less than he is in Superman 3. [00:36:06] Speaker B: Maybe less than 4. [00:36:07] Speaker A: Maybe. I think less than. Maybe less than 4. [00:36:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:11] Speaker A: But it's fascinating just how, like, it has the cast of the original. And it just feels very much like, you know, they have to use their heavy hitters, but everyone else is just kind of like, oh, I kind of did our part. Like, do you need me? No, I don't give a shit. I'm just gonna fucking. Because, like Luthor's side psychic, the female sidekick who's like his girlfriend. [00:36:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:34] Speaker A: She's got more to do in the Donner cut. Actually, she's got one of the funniest bits in the Donner cut, which is when she finds the bathroom in the Fortress of Solitude. But like in the theatrical cut, they kind of like after the Fortress of Solitude, I think they cut her out completely. [00:36:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:49] Speaker A: And it's funny in that because in the theatrical cut, since they can't use Marlon Brando, they bring back Clark's mom. [00:36:55] Speaker C: Right. [00:36:55] Speaker A: Even though I don't think he ever talks to her in the original film in the Fortress. [00:37:01] Speaker B: But yeah, we miss a lot in that first film. There's a big time job. Yeah, maybe he did a lot of mom bonding. [00:37:08] Speaker A: But it was, you know, once we get to the whole actual confrontation between Zod and Superman, which again is 90 minutes of a two hour film. So when they start doing that, that's when it goes, okay, this movie was a two and a half out of five for a while. Now I'll give it a soft three. And I feel okay with this because it's fun. It's silly. [00:37:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:29] Speaker B: There's a lot of goofy cartoon action. [00:37:31] Speaker A: And what a surprise. A lot of it clearly feels like his donner. [00:37:35] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:37:36] Speaker A: And leads into the finale fight, which hilariously, in the Donner cut, there is no finale fight in the Fortress of Solitude. It is just. They're going to trick him. Yeah, they get the weak powers. [00:37:47] Speaker B: Swap. [00:37:47] Speaker A: In the Leicester cut, they clearly were asked more action. So they have a fight scene seen in Superman 2 at the Fortress. Solid 2, which has the notorious S symbol. [00:37:59] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:38:00] Speaker A: He pulls. [00:38:01] Speaker B: Pulls his insignia off his costume and throws it at him. [00:38:05] Speaker A: It's like a net. [00:38:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:07] Speaker A: Never happens again. [00:38:08] Speaker B: Never happens again. Is not talked about at all. [00:38:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Never addressed. It's the funniest, I think. I feel like there's a Family guy bit about that. [00:38:16] Speaker C: Oh, probably. [00:38:17] Speaker A: Then again, Family Guy at this point, 87 years old. So like, like. But yeah, he has a fight with all three of them. It goes nowhere in the original cut of Superman 2. Or in the original script, Lois is supposed to die in the Fortress of Solitude, which is what leads to the time backwards that clearly doesn't happen. So they take the powers away from all three of them. He breaks Zod's hand, throws him against a wall. He flies. [00:38:43] Speaker B: He falls down into the chasm. [00:38:45] Speaker A: Falls into the chasm. Nam is a dumbass and just thinks he can fly still, but can't, so. [00:38:51] Speaker B: He just jumps into a hole. [00:38:52] Speaker A: And then Ursa gets punched in the face by Lois and then falls over. Yeah, and then Clark kisses Lois because Lois can't handle not having Superman and his kisses. Apparently, if he wants them to be erase minds. [00:39:05] Speaker B: Yeah, he has mind wipe kisses. He has mind wipes the last time he pulls it out. No, unlike the insignia, he does use this power. [00:39:14] Speaker A: There are a few powers in these films that he never addresses that he can do and never does again. Yeah, there's even some in three where it's like, hold on, what the fuck is this? Yeah, but yeah, Superman 2's theatrical cut comes out in 80, does well, I think critically. Does a little bit lesser than one, but does well enough that of course the, the producers go, all right, Lester, clearly you are the man we should be doing this with, so let's work on a Superman 3. But the thing is, is that Superman 3 apparently has a caveat to it. So, you know, Margo Kidder, you know, shitting on Superman 2's production basically means she gets written out of three. Hackman has couldn't give half of a fuck if he's a part of any of these movies. So he's not involved in three. They don't know who they should have as a villain for three. Yeah, and the initial idea is Brainiac, which is fucking nuts. Yeah, the initial idea is Brainiac and Supergirl as a love interest, which not even going to talk about the whole cousin aspect of that because that is clearly like, all right, settle down. Yeah, but they go, I don't know if we could do Brainiac. That might be too expensive because basically the budget gets slashed to like 35, 30 million, which is still a lot of money. Let's be clear, it's still in the 80s. [00:40:38] Speaker B: That's a decent chunk of change. [00:40:41] Speaker A: So they're like, who should we get to be the villain in Superman 3? And for some reason one of them, or maybe both of the producers saw a certain comedian do stand up and go, we really want Richard Pryor in Superman 3. So here we are, we need a. [00:40:59] Speaker B: Stand up comedian as our superhero villain. [00:41:02] Speaker A: So before I even saw 3 in high school, I knew how notorious 3 was for the prior of it all just because of the poster oh, yeah. Because the poster is Superman carrying Prior, like. Like a baby. [00:41:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:18] Speaker A: In his arms. And Prior's like, oh, yeah. It was always a joke that Superman 3 is the film where Richard Pryor kills Superman. And as someone in high school, I was like, I know what the fuck that means. And I don't know how. How would that even look like? [00:41:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:34] Speaker A: And watching three in high school is almost very similar to watching. Rewatching it for this because, you know, now we're going to a Superman film that has no Donner. No Donner whatsoever. No Donner in the script, no Donner in the production. He is doing his own thing again at this point. Donner is like, you know, he's got bigger and better things in the future. We've actually already talked about one of the films he does in the late 80s, which is, of course, Lethal Weapon. He also does Goonies. Yeah, man's. [00:42:01] Speaker B: He's moved on. [00:42:01] Speaker A: He's got plenty of other things you can work on. Even though he always wanted to do more Superman, he just, you know, he was like, ah, it is what it is. [00:42:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:09] Speaker A: Now this is a full Lester film. Direction wise, I think we get it. I think we get two gonna give. [00:42:15] Speaker B: Him the full Lester. [00:42:16] Speaker A: No Mario Puzo on the script. I think they had the person that wrote the theatrical cut for two. I think it was the Newman. [00:42:22] Speaker B: The Newman brothers. [00:42:23] Speaker A: Newman brothers. [00:42:24] Speaker B: I think they're brothers. [00:42:25] Speaker A: Well, the two Newmans who wrote the theatrical credit, two also writes a married couple, so. Married couple. And basically they, you know. All right, you want Richard Pryor in a Superman film? We'll do that. Here's the thing, though. When you hear that, you probably think that Richard Pryor is a secondary character. And to a certain degree, he kind of is in certain ways. But the thing is. And this is not. I'm not fucking with you, because again, maybe a lot of you have never seen this film, and if you haven't, that's for good reason. 1 and 2 are really out of all. Spoiler alert. Richard Donner, Superman and Richard Lester. Superman 2 are the only two you really. Of the theatrical cuts. [00:43:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:07] Speaker A: It's the only ones you should really watch. Because Superman 3 opens with Richard Prior. [00:43:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:13] Speaker A: Almost immediately telling the audience that even though this film is called Superman 3, the arc that we're going to get, the strongest quote, unquote, arc will have, is with Richard Pryor. And so what we get is a sequel to Superman that is Richard Pryor heavy to a degree, where it feels like, wow, I didn't know that Christopher Reeve was going to be the secondary lead in a Superman film. [00:43:42] Speaker B: Well, the thing that sucks, too, is, like, you've got Richard Pryor, legendary funny man. [00:43:49] Speaker A: He's hilarious. [00:43:50] Speaker B: He doesn't really get to be very funny in this movie. [00:43:54] Speaker A: No, it's. It's a kid's. It's a kids film. [00:43:56] Speaker B: Well, it's a kids film. And his character is, like, just not a funny guy. Like, he's. He's supposed to be. [00:44:03] Speaker A: It has. [00:44:04] Speaker B: But he's not. [00:44:05] Speaker A: It has Ghostbusters, Answer the Call energy in terms of, like, just be funny. [00:44:10] Speaker C: Right? Yeah. [00:44:11] Speaker A: Do. [00:44:12] Speaker B: This really feels like a director telling a known comedian. Okay, do. Do the. Do the funny. [00:44:18] Speaker A: Yeah. But basically, Richard Pryor's whole thing is that he's a con artist who is trying to make a decent living outside of, I believe, prison. Like, I think he went to prison at one point. [00:44:29] Speaker B: Well, he ends like the. The movie opens on him being like. Like on unemployment. [00:44:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:36] Speaker B: Like, trying to get. [00:44:37] Speaker A: And they get rid of. Yeah. [00:44:38] Speaker B: Welfare. And they get rid of it. So then he's like, well, what do I do now? He gets into computer, like, software engineering. [00:44:47] Speaker A: Turns out he's a hacker. [00:44:48] Speaker B: Becomes a hacker in 1980, which Richard. [00:44:52] Speaker A: Pryor, known computer hacker in the 80s. [00:44:56] Speaker B: But we, like. We cut from him having his welfare cut off to then suddenly becoming a whiz on the computer. And he cons his employer out of a bunch of money by taking all of the half cents that was lost in the computer system and reapplying them to his paycheck. [00:45:17] Speaker A: And he gets like, 87,000. [00:45:19] Speaker B: Like 87,000. [00:45:21] Speaker A: And the head of the company goes, I like this guy's moxie. [00:45:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:25] Speaker A: Bring him up. And then. Yeah, he's a fucking whiz. Figures out a way to basically play the stock market. This is Superman 3, by the way. [00:45:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:34] Speaker A: And while all this is happening. Well, I was gonna say, what are you talking about? And as all this is happening, you're going, what is Superman doing? Well, Superman's doing just regular Superman. Since Margot Kidder's not really involved in the film, she's just a cameo. She's going to South America for the whole film. She shows up at the very beginning to be like, I got a story in South America. [00:45:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:56] Speaker A: And leaves. And then Clark is doing a story on his class reunion because I believe it's his 20th, which is. [00:46:03] Speaker B: It's kind of hilarious. This. The Superman's or Clark's premise in this movie is. Yeah, he's gonna do, like, a little feature article On. [00:46:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:14] Speaker B: Hometown. Small hometown reunion for Daily Planet reporter Clark Kent. And that just feels to me like puff piece. Feels like like high school news magazine shit. [00:46:25] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:46:26] Speaker B: That's what we. What I would have written in high school on our newspaper. [00:46:30] Speaker A: Andy. We gotta give Superman. Can't have a Superman movie without a love interest. [00:46:35] Speaker B: Like, what is. What is the premier newspaper of the largest city potentially in the world doing writing a puff piece about one of their reporters. High school. [00:46:47] Speaker A: Seriously. And it's like they do all of this not because they think the class reunion aspect would genuinely be interesting, because it really isn't. It's exactly what you think a Clark Kent Sereni thing would be, except for the fact that they want to do this to introduce Lana Lang, played by. Gosh. But you don't have to. But basically, if you've ever seen Annette o'. [00:47:11] Speaker C: Toole. Yeah. [00:47:12] Speaker A: Because if you've actually. If you've seen Smallville, the show. Annette O', Toole, who plays Lana Lang in Superman 3, actually plays Ma Kent in the CWS in that series, which in the WB series. [00:47:24] Speaker B: Sorry. [00:47:24] Speaker A: Don't want anyone out there. I know. Well, there is a difference. There is a difference. But she is introduced with being a single mother. And then Christopher Reeve. And then Clark goes single mom. She's still hot. This is my plot line. And then basically, you know, because what. [00:47:41] Speaker B: Do audiences want more than to replace Lois Lane arbitrarily with some random woman from high school. [00:47:48] Speaker A: Not even as high school little sweetheart. Just someone who thought was cute. And she kind of thought he was cute. [00:47:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:54] Speaker A: And they're like, well, now we're adults. Maybe we should be a thing. [00:47:57] Speaker B: You know, and it almost. It almost be halfway worthwhile if this new character love interest was like an interesting, well developed person. [00:48:08] Speaker A: But she's talking about she has a kid. [00:48:10] Speaker B: She's a. Yeah. She's a mom. That's about it. She's a mom. [00:48:13] Speaker A: She's a mom who's always wanted to live in the biggest city. [00:48:15] Speaker B: There's. [00:48:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:16] Speaker B: There's this undercurrent that she's like, you know, a failure because she's stuck in Smallville and. [00:48:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:22] Speaker B: You know, got knocked up in the hometown and had to stay. [00:48:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:26] Speaker B: And she's not. She's like super oblivious, weirdly, like, about a lot of things. Kind of stumbles her way into a Daily Planet job. [00:48:35] Speaker A: And then again, they're gonna say at the end of this film is basically introduced Lana as the start of a love triangle between her, Lois and Clark. [00:48:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:45] Speaker A: Which at least a fucking Nothing. [00:48:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:47] Speaker A: Because Lana does not show up again after three. And. [00:48:51] Speaker B: No, there's a new random hot new woman in four. [00:48:55] Speaker A: Yeah, whatever. She doesn't even get an ending either. But yeah. So Clark's whole thing is just like. Yeah. My whole time is going to be dedicated to how I want to impress you and your son. [00:49:05] Speaker B: Oppress. [00:49:06] Speaker A: You know, impress. But he impress both of you and both as Clark and as Superman. [00:49:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:12] Speaker A: And while he's doing all this and is when Richard Pryor is just doing shit to fuck with the weather system. Lisa. [00:49:19] Speaker B: Like, he's able to like reprogram a weather satellite to cause weather events. [00:49:24] Speaker A: Yeah. He has to go to Smallville because that's where the weather satellite is. Because the security guard there is like the classic shithead. I used to be big in high school. Likes Lana but hates Clark because Clark and Lana have a thing. He is a security guard there. And there's a drunk extended scene where Prior gets him drunk off of a suitcase full of booze. It's very long. It feels like 30 minutes, but really it's like five. It doesn't feel any. And they reprogram the weather satellite because the tech bro, the tech company guy who is running this wants to. With, I believe, coffee bean production in the south. In South America. And because he wants to. He wants to fuck with profits because it's all about like. It's basically all about like stock. [00:50:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:17] Speaker B: He wants megalomania stuff. [00:50:19] Speaker A: He wants to use Richard Pryor's hacking skills to basically win the stock market. [00:50:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:26] Speaker B: There's something in there about oil too. [00:50:28] Speaker A: This is Superman 3. [00:50:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:30] Speaker B: And it's these corporate. [00:50:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:32] Speaker B: Maniacs trying to game the system and get more rich. [00:50:35] Speaker A: And you're probably thinking, okay, well, like in Superman 1 and in Superman 2, it does take at least like an inciting incident to get Superman involved with like, usually the B plot. Prior feels like the A plot in this film. How does he get involved with the A plot? Well, the A plot basically starts off. Is that when they try to up South. South America with the rain and like the tornado, like, they make tornadoes and Superman literally spins the other way around. It pushes the tornadoes upward. [00:51:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:05] Speaker B: Makes it. Makes it an innie. [00:51:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:07] Speaker B: Or an Audi. [00:51:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And then they basically. The tech. The tech guy goes, I have a new plan. Prior kill Superman. And so Prior finds a way to get the 90% mineral deconstruction of Kryptonite. Can't find like the last 5%. So he just puts oil in it. [00:51:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:27] Speaker A: Makes a fake Kryptonite Just like a piece of kryptonite. [00:51:33] Speaker B: Synthetic Kryptonite. [00:51:34] Speaker A: Yeah, synthetic kryptonite. Pretends to be a four star general When Superman's in Smallville to give him this prize. [00:51:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:43] Speaker A: He takes the prize. Superman becomes douchebag Superman. Not full Bizarro Superman, but just douchebag Superman. [00:51:50] Speaker B: Instead of like traditionally, like taking his powers away or weakening him like kryptonite, would it. It slowly turns him into an evil version. [00:51:59] Speaker A: Truly, the only part of this series that made me uncomfortable is when evil Superman is basically trying to push Lana to have sex with him. [00:52:09] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:52:10] Speaker A: And then he goes like, oh, wait, I have to go save those other people. And then he goes to the spot and everyone's dead. He goes, how did I let this happen? He also straightens out the Tower of Pisa. [00:52:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:23] Speaker A: Which is a running gag because there's a vendor who has leading tower Pisa statues. And when he straightens it, it ruins his car. [00:52:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:30] Speaker B: There goes his merch. [00:52:31] Speaker A: And then at the very end, Superman, trying to be nice, puts it back to leaning. [00:52:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:35] Speaker A: Even though the cart now has. [00:52:37] Speaker B: He's adapted to straight unleaning merch. [00:52:41] Speaker A: Again, a hilarious bit that would be much funnier. Like, it would be hilarious in a film where it actually. That would fit in. [00:52:50] Speaker B: But yeah, it just feels so out of place. [00:52:53] Speaker A: It's just the guy who plays the cart. Like, he just looks like his life is devastated every time. Yeah. It becomes douchebag Superman. That distracts. [00:53:04] Speaker B: Drives him to drinking and. [00:53:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that just cruelty that drives him to fight his inner self at a junkyard. [00:53:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:12] Speaker B: The kind of manifests as two distinct beings in a junkyard. One being Superman in his Superman combo costume. But he has gray hair and darker skin and a five o'. Clock. Five o' clock shadow and looks shitty. [00:53:26] Speaker A: Muted suit. [00:53:27] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:53:29] Speaker B: Which it's kind of a fun bit of creative flair to have his suit progressively get duller as the movie goes on. Once he gets the synthetic kryptonite. But yeah, they don't do a whole lot with it. And then he fights him. He beats himself up in a junkyard. [00:53:45] Speaker A: Again, Lester Lister doesn't have any. It's like he doesn't have any sauce in two and three. It's just very little in comparison to what Donner has in one film, in my opinion. [00:53:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:57] Speaker A: But, yeah, well, all this is happening now. The tech guy is like, all right, look at you. You killed Superman. Now build me a supercomputer. Prior builds the supercomputer, fixes a supercomputer. And then what happens? [00:54:10] Speaker B: Kind of happens off screen. Yeah, he's like, build me a supercomputer. And the next thing we see a giant room sized supercomputer. [00:54:18] Speaker A: Yeah, it's built like something you'd see in like Tron. [00:54:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:21] Speaker A: Nowhere. And then the supercomputer becomes sentient, starts attacking. It initially attacks Superman, but then it starts everybody. And then of course, Superman comes back, saves everybody from the supercomputer. Until mean tech bro, tech bros. Mean sister gets sucked up by the computer. [00:54:41] Speaker B: She gets like eaten by the computer and then turned into a robot and spat back up. [00:54:46] Speaker A: But not for fully, because they basically just super glue pieces of computer, cover her in computer. Yeah, it's not like a Cronenberg body horror thing. Like they like interweave. That would be kind of cool. Well, yeah, it's funny. [00:55:00] Speaker B: Horrifying. [00:55:00] Speaker A: It would be horrible with the budget they had. Good God. But it is funny to think that, you know, they didn't think they could do Brainiac, but they still tried to do like. [00:55:08] Speaker B: Yeah, they did. They didn't. [00:55:12] Speaker A: And she looks her horrendous. Yeah, she kind of looks like a mix between Rosie the Robot and the Jetsons and Joan Crawford and Joan Rivers in spaceballs. Yeah, her C3PO, but the shittiest version of both of those characters. And then Superman stops it by. Early on in the film, there was a chemical plant kind of meltdown thing or fire happening in Smallville that he finds like this chemical that if it's superheated, becomes basically like acid, even though it's not acid in a cool state. He literally goes back to that plant, grabs some of that comes back, puts it in the middle of the supercomputer, lets it get hot, and then it just eats through the motherboards. And then basically at the end of that, Superman literally only takes Prior, leaves the rest of them behind, says he'll come back for them later, but doesn't do anything. And. And he just takes Prior. Prior is like, oh, I don't like flying. [00:56:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:11] Speaker A: And they drop him off at like a coal mining facility or something that comes like that and goes like, this guy's good at computers. You should give him a job. And then he leaves. And Prior goes, no, I don't want to do that. Yeah, just walks away. [00:56:25] Speaker B: It's so fascinating, the role, like the. The void, I guess. Void. The space that Prior fills in this movie is so odd because he has the screen time of like your lead, basically. He has as long as the role in the hierarchy, the role in the villain hierarchy of henchmen. Yeah, but the billing of the main villain. [00:56:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:56:53] Speaker B: And the screen time of the main villain. But then at the end of the day, the movie kind of treats him like, oh, he was just a pawn. He didn't know what he was doing. Which, like, he is kind of true, I guess. I mean, he's still doing shitty stuff now. [00:57:05] Speaker A: He still stole like, 87. [00:57:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:06] Speaker B: I mean, he's a con man. He's a con man. Yeah. The movie ends up treating him like he was just a guy doing his thing. [00:57:13] Speaker A: It just ends with him pretending like he's gonna open up his shirt to. [00:57:16] Speaker B: Have an S. Yeah. New Superboy. [00:57:19] Speaker A: And then he goes, oh, look, there's a. There's a bus that way. I'm gonna go that way. And then it ends with so many unfunny bits with prior Clark apologizing to Lana and her son and basically convincing Lana and her son to move to Metropolis, where she now works as Perry White's assistant. [00:57:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:38] Speaker A: And that's when Margot Kidder shows back up and goes, clark, another woman. What am I feeling? And then the movie just like, ends. [00:57:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it ends on this really awkward note of like, oh, Lois is back and is realizing a new white woman. [00:57:52] Speaker A: Has appeared in the chat. [00:57:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:53] Speaker B: And there's not even like a gag to it. [00:57:55] Speaker A: It's just like the gag is she's talk tan. That's like the only gag. [00:58:00] Speaker B: Well, I mean, yeah, she has a. [00:58:01] Speaker A: Son, she has a. She has a tan. [00:58:03] Speaker B: But there's no gag to the like, love. Like love triangle thing. It's just Lois finds out, which, you know, would be kind of, you know, earth shattering news for her, I guess. [00:58:14] Speaker A: But she also is constantly saying she has no thing for Clark. [00:58:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:18] Speaker A: And the film completely commits to that. [00:58:20] Speaker B: Yeah, well, because she's not in it. [00:58:22] Speaker A: No, she. I mean, yeah, but like, even two's like that too. Or two is like her whole thing is like, oh, Clark, there's a woman out there for you. But not in a way where it's like, it could be me, though. Actually, no, I'd love Superman. Like, it's not even that. She's like head over heels for Superman so much that in three, even then the two scenes she's in, she's like, ah, whatever, you're not Superman. And then just like, leaves. Then like, the last scene in three is like, am I feeling things? No, she's not. Whatever. Superman 3. Superman 3 is bad. Superman 3 is not good. Not surprising that the film where Richard Pryor quote Unquote, killed kill Superman is bad, but it is. It is surprising. Just. Oh, I forgot to talk about the worst part about the film. My opinion, which is the credits roll. [00:59:04] Speaker B: Oh, the opening. [00:59:05] Speaker A: Yeah. So the original Richard Donner film has, like this iconic credits open, swooping blue lights with John Williams score. 2's theatrical cut has a shittier version of that, but it's still fine. Yeah, they do it. They redo it in the Richard Donner cut of two. And then in three, for some fucking reason, they do this weird Rube Goldberg kind of thing in the background. Happening while the credits are, like, concave. Yeah, they're like, slanted down. You can. I am. I will say I am someone who. I mean, lucky enough that I don't need glasses, but I had a fucking hard time trying to read any of these credits. [00:59:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:47] Speaker A: And I knew what Christopher Reeves name was, but anytime so bad, it's horrible. It's funny, too, because four, I guess, technically has a quote unquote shittier one. [00:59:57] Speaker B: But I would argue they're clearer. [00:59:59] Speaker A: At least you could read it. Yeah, this was so. Because it's also, like, translucent. So, like all the words, it's just the background is filling it up and the background's constantly changing. [01:00:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:00:10] Speaker A: What the fuck is going on? Not a great way to start that movie. I remember that being rough, and it's way worse than I remember it being. It Sucks, but Superman 3 sucks. The movie makes a profit, but it's not a big profit compared to 1 and 2. And critically, it doesn't do as well. In the process of three happening at the same time, the producers are basically like, okay, you know, Superman 3 is definitely going to make money. So guess what? We should also make a Supergirl film which comes out a year after this movie. In the process of making Supergirl, Superman 3 comes out and is dog shit. And Warner Brothers is like, no, no, no, I think we should push it back. Because apparently Superman Supergirl was supposed to come out, I believe, in a Christmas slot. And then Gus basically got pushed to the summer of 84, which I think was like the fucking Olympics. There's, like, other shit was coming out in 84 at that time. They put simple girl out in 84 and it flops. I think it actually, I think it does worse critically than Superman 3. Both Faye Dunaway and Peter O', Toole, I believe, win or get nominated for Razzie Awards. Yes, I did. I watched it. [01:01:28] Speaker B: Of 35 million box office. [01:01:30] Speaker A: 14 had a budget as big. It's not bigger than Superman 3. [01:01:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:34] Speaker A: It does show in Supergirl. The budget. Like the budget. The opening credits for Supergirl. Vastly better than Superman 3. I would argue, even though Supergirl is an insane movie and also dog and stupid, I would argue that movie is still better than Superman 3 because it's trying to do something. Is it good? [01:01:52] Speaker C: No. [01:01:53] Speaker A: It is a film. I'm not even kidding you, Andy, is a film where we are five to ten minutes away from the ending. And I think, well, there's nothing that this film could throw at me that could throw me off. And then it throws another curveball last minute, and I'm like, this movie just keeps throwing random shit at me. That movie is insane. It had every right to bomb. I still like it more than three. But Supergirl comes out, it bombs. The producers are going, all right, we need to wash our hands of this. We have. We have tried. Superman is basically dead. Yeah, I guess we have no other, you know, we have no other choice but to sell it. So they sell the rights to the Superman and family, like, you know, to a notorious group called the Canon Group, Golden Globus, who at the time, most people would probably know in the 80s. Let's think of any. Insert a Chuck Norris film here. Yeah, break in. Break into Electric Boogaloo, Death Wish, Death Wish, American Ninja, Death Wish 2 to 3, I think are them. I think Death Wish 1 is like, it's its own thing. And the sequels are way worse. [01:03:04] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:03:07] Speaker A: I mean, Last American Virgin, a classic. A classic for a friend of the pond. Future guest Jake Atwood, which again, that was one of the. I need. We need to rewatch that movie. [01:03:19] Speaker C: We do. [01:03:19] Speaker A: We're well, we're well. And I think I bought that movie for him. So we have no excuse not to do that at some point. But I mean, Canon Group had popular movies, but they are. [01:03:31] Speaker B: They're kind of schlock. Like a schlock studio. [01:03:34] Speaker A: B movie city, I would say, in that. In the 80s. And guess who picks up Superman but them. [01:03:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:03:42] Speaker A: So they pick up Superman. They're able to get Christopher Reeve on board as long as they use nuclear. As they have a conversation about the use of nuclear weapons, they pick up Gene Hackman, I assume, because they said they're going to pay him a stupid amount of money. And also he never has to shave his head or wear a bull cap. So he goes, okay, cool, that's great. Margot Kidder's back. Because the producers that are involved are not really involved anymore. So. Okay, yeah, pay her what she needs. In basically another Cameo role, but just a little bit more than that. I think she gets an and credit. [01:04:18] Speaker B: Yes, she gets Margot as well, but. [01:04:22] Speaker A: She'S still in it more than she's in three. And. All right, we're to throw it on. The budget is half of what Superman 3 was. And you know what? I think it's going to be just fine. So four years after Superman 3, we get our final film of today's trilogy, Superman for the Quest for Peace. Now, as we are recording this, this. We just finished the film about an hour ago, maybe an hour and a half, we wanted to watch at least one of these films together. And I thought it'd be fun if we watch the Quest for Peace, because I've seen the Quest for Peace. Andy had not. He's changed. He was the last American Quest for Peace version. Now he is not now no longer. [01:05:07] Speaker B: A virgin for Peace. I've been on my quest, my virginal quest. [01:05:13] Speaker A: But I was very, very clear with him that the Quest for Peace is the worst of all of them. It's. It is. It is the funniest. I will say it's the funniest of the three of all the films. [01:05:27] Speaker B: But it's also only 90 minutes, which. Which does a lot. [01:05:31] Speaker A: Here's the thing. I would re watch 4. 4 is worse than 3. I would still rewatch 4 because it is 19. [01:05:38] Speaker B: It's so much. [01:05:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:39] Speaker B: It's so much more watchable. 3 is just a fucking slog. [01:05:43] Speaker A: The funniest thing about 4 is that there is no preconceived notion that whatever this movie does will have any kind of impact on the franchise whatsoever, other than a negative impact financially. [01:05:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:57] Speaker A: Three has this weird energy that it's gonna have some choices of, like, you know, Clark having to really look inward and do this. Almost have like a seriousness do it when it shouldn't. [01:06:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:09] Speaker A: Because Prior's involved. Four people have arc changes off screen. The big love interest for Clark in this film, I believe, is Lindsay Warfield or something like that. [01:06:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:22] Speaker A: Who is like the daughter of the guy who apparently has owned the Daily Planet this entire time, who just wants to turn the Daily Planet into a rag. Lacy Warfield. Lacey Warfield is the new love interest. She gets nothing to do except be like, you know what? I think we shouldn't be making a Post newspaper. [01:06:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:41] Speaker A: I think we should be about journalism. [01:06:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:43] Speaker B: And love interest is kind of putting it strongly because there's like, a few scenes of, like, mild flirting with Clark and Clark is plays the oblivious game. [01:06:53] Speaker A: And it is the Goofiest Clark has been in these entire films. [01:06:57] Speaker B: Yeah, he really. They really ham up the. [01:07:00] Speaker A: She's practically asking to, like, throw her into. Onto a bed. And he's like, well, which bed? We're at a mattress store. Like, that's the kind of. He's doing constantly. She's literally asking him to go to, like, exercise with her, do dinners with her. With Superman and Lois, like, it is like she is practically throwing herself onto him and he's just like. And it's just like, again, there's a. [01:07:27] Speaker B: There's a comedic sequence in the gym where he goes to exercise with her and he. You know, and a guy flounders because. [01:07:34] Speaker A: A guy in a slutty crop top throws him off. And so he throws him back off. Yeah. The silver lining through all these films, all the way through four, is. Is Reeve. Yeah. Christopher Reeve. I feel like it's. At this point, I feel like by three he should be phoning it in, but in reality, in re. In three, he just feels concerned. [01:07:53] Speaker B: He's not. Yeah, he's not phoning it in. And three, but he's. He looks fucking tired. [01:07:57] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:07:58] Speaker B: I mean, part of that is because evil Superman is tired, but like, even before that, he's. [01:08:03] Speaker A: He. He is having fun as evil Superman. [01:08:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:08:06] Speaker A: Such a douchebag. [01:08:07] Speaker B: It's at least a chance to do. [01:08:08] Speaker A: Something he's playing out of character. Because the thing too with Reeve is post douche. Yeah. Post three, I would say, because I think another reason why he does four is that I think Canon Group funds another one of his films after this that is like a independent drama that apparently does really well. And because Reeve pretty much post Superman, his whole thing ends up being as a career is that he tries to play against the Superman type and it just never works. [01:08:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:08:37] Speaker A: Because Reeve, I think, is a great actor when you give him the right role. And lo and behold, the right role is right here. It's fucking Superman. But he's not going to be doing Superman 8 by the 90s. Like, this is only going to be for so long. Literally. I was talking to Andy's crazy. When he gets casted as Superman in the first film, I believe he's 25. And by the time the series ends, it's nine years after that first Superman film. So he's probably hitting 35. [01:09:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:09:04] Speaker A: And he looks great. He's committing to Superman in a way that, like, even in the shitty movies, he has a line or two that is just like, now, be careful now. And like this. This goofy little moment where it's like, okay, this is fun in four. I think, like, the funny moment is like, when a Russian satellite hits, gets hit by debris, and then, like, Superman saves the astronaut, puts him in there, and then speaks Russian to the astronauts. [01:09:30] Speaker B: Right. [01:09:31] Speaker A: Y' all keep your singing inside space or something like that. It's like, that's fun. That's Superman shit. That's like classic Superman shit. He's doing it consistently and he's doing it while looking worse than ever because it's half the budget of three. And there's only so much you can do with that. But it is a film where the Daily Planet stuff is kind of the Clark Kent plot on top of the lacy stuff. And then Superman's whole plot is that Superman really hates the fact that the Cold War is happening. So he says, fuck all of you. I'm taking all of your nuclear weapons. [01:10:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:10:07] Speaker B: He assembles, like, all of the world leaders. And just like I'm deciding right now, I'm going to steal all of the warheads and throw them into space. [01:10:15] Speaker A: And everyone. [01:10:16] Speaker B: And everyone cheers. [01:10:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:10:17] Speaker B: It's the. The original. And then everyone clapped 4chan thread. [01:10:22] Speaker A: And then he puts them all in a giant space net and throws him into sun. And then after he does that, he still has a few stragglers. [01:10:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I love how he spends a good chunk of this movie just, like, picking up the stragglers that he missed and. [01:10:36] Speaker A: What? [01:10:36] Speaker B: It's just a weird thread. [01:10:38] Speaker A: And then one of those stragglers is an American nuke that has Lex. Lex's new plan, which is basically now that Hackman's back now with his nephew Lenny, played by John Cryer. [01:10:53] Speaker B: Yeah. John Crier, who would have men fame, would one day go on to play Lex Luthor. [01:10:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And apparently of every clip I've seen of him, he is actually trying. He's having a fun time. [01:11:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:11:04] Speaker B: I like John Crier. [01:11:05] Speaker A: I like John Crier, too. [01:11:06] Speaker B: Not in this, but I like him as a guy. [01:11:08] Speaker A: I'm glad that he got enough out of Two and a Half Men just consistently that now he's just like, if I want to do something. [01:11:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:11:17] Speaker A: And. But yeah, he plays Lex's nephew and he's iconically bad because it's just stupid. He. [01:11:23] Speaker B: He's clearly useless. [01:11:24] Speaker A: He's clearly here because of, like, Pretty in Pink and the Hughes era. [01:11:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:11:29] Speaker A: Being like, it's hot. [01:11:30] Speaker B: We gotta throw him in. [01:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah. What else are we going to put him in but Superman. [01:11:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:11:34] Speaker B: We need a little to play around. And he's. [01:11:37] Speaker A: He's Just there. He really adds nothing to the plot. He doesn't do anything, he's just there. So like if anything, well he, he. [01:11:42] Speaker B: He nearly kills a couple cops at the start of the movie with his. [01:11:46] Speaker A: Gadget car and it's, you know, so funny. And then he gets, you know, Lex so funny. [01:11:51] Speaker B: Which is what Logan says every time something's really funny. [01:11:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I was just say, haha, that's, that's the funny story. [01:11:57] Speaker B: I am laughing. [01:11:58] Speaker A: Yeah, you can't see it on my face, but I am laughing. Lex's new plan is that he's going to take a hair of Superman's which. [01:12:07] Speaker B: Is at a museum display. [01:12:09] Speaker A: On display. Museum. [01:12:10] Speaker B: For its tensile strength, holding up a thousand pounds. [01:12:13] Speaker A: Yes. Apparently Superman's hair can carry a load of a thousand pounds. [01:12:16] Speaker B: The ultimate load. [01:12:17] Speaker A: The ultimate load. He takes the piece of hair, he puts it in a little lunchbox with like a, like a proto, like just a little goopy bag full of like Lex jeans almost. [01:12:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:12:30] Speaker A: Puts it in a little. Puts a little lunchbox. Talks to a bunch of black market nuke dealers. Which one of them is Jim Broadbent, AKA our second Harry Potter alum as a Frenchman. And he has I think two lines and every time he speaks French or like in a French accent, he's like embarrassed. [01:12:48] Speaker B: Yeah, he sounds like he doesn't want to do it. Like don't make me do it. [01:12:51] Speaker A: Like Dubois. [01:12:53] Speaker B: Yes, Jean Pierre Dubois. Like kind of the most cliche. [01:12:56] Speaker A: Should have been called baguette croissant at that point. They're not even tr. Because the Russian guy barely speaks. [01:13:04] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:13:05] Speaker A: Looks like he's trying to be kind of Staliny but not much. He puts his little lunchbox on American Nuke. Superman takes the nuke, throws it into the sun and creates the villain of our film, Nuclear man with his silver painted nails. [01:13:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:13:21] Speaker B: He's dolled up in like a gold and black leotard. He's got big like hair metal curly blonde hair ripped to shreds. And. [01:13:32] Speaker A: And it's his only acting credit is this. [01:13:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:13:36] Speaker B: What's the guy's name again? I don't know. [01:13:38] Speaker A: Because it's also funny because it's just his acting credit and yet all of his lines are ADR by Gene Hackman. [01:13:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:13:46] Speaker A: Because he's playing like a mix, like almost Gene. Supposed to be like biologically Gene Hackman. [01:13:51] Speaker B: And is the name of the actor. [01:13:54] Speaker A: Yeah. I believe again he. They talk about him to an extent, or at least they use footage of this film in the canon documentary Electric Boogaloo. But I do not believe they talked to him. [01:14:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:05] Speaker A: I think literally his wanted only credit is, of course, Nuclear man, because I believe he's a bodybuilder. [01:14:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:11] Speaker A: And had the physique that they wanted. But, like. [01:14:14] Speaker B: And he's. Yeah, he's. He's dubbed over by Gene Hackman, which goes, kill Superman. [01:14:19] Speaker A: It's like. [01:14:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:20] Speaker B: He says they kind of dress it. They're like, he's my son. Yeah, he's my son. But it's. [01:14:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:25] Speaker B: Because it's his DNA, I guess. [01:14:27] Speaker A: Yeah. But it's also kind of Superman's son. So, you know, Lex, that's kind of. [01:14:30] Speaker B: Also the sun's son. [01:14:32] Speaker A: The sun's son as well. Yeah. So there's just, you know, three strong individuals to create. Truly the worst villain. I would. I mean, he's hilarious. He's hilariously bad. [01:14:45] Speaker B: I mean, he's there and yeah, they. Because emotionally, he's just kind of like. He's non. Again. Like, he's just. [01:14:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:53] Speaker B: Big dumb Superman until he really wants to. [01:14:57] Speaker A: Until he falls for Lacy, I guess, at one point. Which leads to nothing. [01:15:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:15:03] Speaker A: Yeah, it is, very much. Because at least with three, you can kind of be like, oh, the main villain in there is a tech guy who wants to control the stock market. Whatever. At least that feels like something, I guess, unique in a way. Nuclear man is literally just. What if Superman were evil and had. [01:15:19] Speaker B: And brainless nails? [01:15:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:21] Speaker B: It is so doomsday. [01:15:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Gosh. Can I get Michael Shane in his Nuclear man, please? I will find him. It is. He shows up. They have a single. They have a fight. He gets a little nick on Superman's neck, which nearly kills him. [01:15:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:15:42] Speaker B: Superman gets, like, super fever until. [01:15:44] Speaker A: Nuclear fever, until his mom says this green crystal has all of the rest of Krypton. Hopefully that helps. It helps. [01:15:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:15:53] Speaker A: They fight again. Nuclear man kind of wins again. And then Superman makes a solar eclipse. [01:16:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:16:00] Speaker B: And. Well, yeah, they established that Nuclear man loses all function when he steps out of the sunlight. Like, he just. He could literally step into a shadow on a sunny day and he shuts down. [01:16:12] Speaker A: He could put a blanket over him and he's just fucking. [01:16:15] Speaker B: Just done. [01:16:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:16:18] Speaker B: They're not super consistent, though, with it because he does. He goes inside multiple times, and you would think, okay, well, he. He should lose his powers right now. But he doesn't. [01:16:27] Speaker A: It's. And then the funniest part is that he Sura makes the solar eclipse to power him down. Nuclear man kidnapped Lacy. Superman takes Lacy back to Earth. We never See Lacy again. And then he takes nuclear man. He just throws him down a nuclear. And he just dies. [01:16:46] Speaker B: Well, it's pretty. Yeah, I guess you. Yeah, you can assume he died. He becomes like. He powers the city. He gets thrown into a power cell. [01:16:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:16:55] Speaker B: It's. He gets turned into a battery, basically a nuclear battery. [01:16:58] Speaker A: Lex and Lenny try to run away and then Superman picks him up, takes Lenny to a boy's home because apparently Lenny's not 20 plus, like probably was at that time. And then Gene, like Hackman just goes right back to where he started. [01:17:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:17:13] Speaker A: This movie again is cheap and it shows. And it's very clear that like, well, we have one, we have two. We have two. We have three Lex Luthor sets, the museum, the quarry and Lex's apartment. [01:17:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:17:30] Speaker A: And so it's like. [01:17:31] Speaker B: Well, and. And to the movie's credit, it. It moves quickly. [01:17:37] Speaker A: Again. The. The. The best part about four, which you would even argue is easier than watching like two, even a two. I'd say it is a good movie. It. Four is 30 minutes shorter than the last two movies. [01:17:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:17:51] Speaker A: And it's even 30 minutes shorter than Supergirl. Supergirl is two hours too. [01:17:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:17:55] Speaker A: It's like having a 90 minute Superman film, even if it's absolute dog feels breezy. It is funny how the movie just ends with Superman being like, I'm so glad we got rid of all our nuclear weapons together. We did it. I love the earth so much. And then the same shot of the sun rising as he comes up the crest and just flies away. And then that's the end of Superman 4. It is. It is a genuine trip. Like these sequels, I think are the classic case of like diminishing returns. Each time to a degree that I think is like no surprise that when we think of Superman and the Reeve era Superman, we have had enough decades to just be like, listen, if you Want to watch 3, we are warning you, you don't have to. But if you want to watch 4, have maybe some alcohol. Alcohol. Or get. Have some fun with it, because you're not gonna. There's nothing really here. Like it is. It is not. It is the type of dumb dog fun that is like, ah, only canon could pull something like this. Like this. Literally the most notorious about this movie other than like the fact that Superman has brick building vision. He fixes the Great Wall of China. [01:19:14] Speaker B: He has Minecraft creative mode vision. He's just. Yeah, he filled in the gaps with his vision. [01:19:21] Speaker A: When nuclear man and Superman are fighting on the moon, they throw each other into Clear black curtain like black curtains. So fucking funny. It's. It's a blast. It is so bad. It's good way the way more than three ever is the best. [01:19:40] Speaker B: The best way that Superman 4 carries on the legacy of the previous films is that it has yet another, as you pointed out, yet another green crystal from Kryptonite or from Krypton that's not Kryptonite. [01:19:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:52] Speaker B: All of these movies have another green shard. Looks like kryptonite, but isn't. [01:19:58] Speaker A: It's funny how maybe they're like. It's funny how Kryptonite is the one way everyone knows. That's how you stop Superman. And kryptonite is only involved in the first film. And it goes green crystal into that helps depower and also, you know, power up Superman to. [01:20:18] Speaker B: It doesn't even. The first film has a non Kryptonite green chart. It's what grows the Fortress of Solitude. [01:20:25] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just funny because again, it's like, this is even before like, it is. I'm pretty sure it's before Superman. They introduced in his lore the different types of crypt. [01:20:34] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [01:20:35] Speaker B: It's got to be before that stuff. [01:20:36] Speaker A: God, could you imagine if they did quest for peace? And pink Kryptonite was. The thing is pink, that's the one. [01:20:42] Speaker B: That makes him gay. Yeah, it's. It's so bad because red makes him evil, right? [01:20:48] Speaker A: Red. Yeah. No, God, red. Red is evil. I think. [01:20:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:20:54] Speaker B: I think red is what, Synthetic Krypton. [01:20:56] Speaker A: Yeah, because the thing about Superman is that. Yeah, the red. The Kryptonites do massively different things too, but it's the different types of suns that affect his powers too. [01:21:05] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:21:05] Speaker A: Like a red sun does something to it. [01:21:07] Speaker B: Like. [01:21:07] Speaker C: Well, I think. [01:21:08] Speaker B: Yeah, reds. I think Krypton, his home planet, was under a red sun, which is why they don't really have powers on their own planet. And then he goes to a yellow sun and gets powers. [01:21:19] Speaker A: Look, it's been a long time since we've really, like, dug deep, both of us, in like, a wicked search of, like, what other fucking Kryptonite? Shit. [01:21:27] Speaker B: I'm looking at an image right now. [01:21:29] Speaker A: A reference image, because in my head, every time I think I've different color Kryptonite, I think a different colored lantern rings. [01:21:35] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:21:36] Speaker B: D.C. has a lot of, like, rainbow spectrum. [01:21:39] Speaker A: It's funny. Yeah. It's funny to think when we think of colored stones, because of the popularity mcu, we think of the Infinity Gauntlet. Yeah, but like, DC has So many different colors. Like stones and shit. Yeah, they just have red. [01:21:51] Speaker B: And red causes unpredictable physical and mental changes in Kryptonian, such as shrinking, growing, sleepwalking, hallucinations, turning evil. [01:22:02] Speaker A: Sounds like an ad for, like, a medicine. [01:22:04] Speaker B: Side effects may include gold Kryptonite causes permanent power loss. [01:22:09] Speaker A: Okay, I've heard of gold Kryptonite. [01:22:10] Speaker B: Black splits them into two separate entities. So that's kind of what we get in the. Yeah, the prior. Synthonite. [01:22:17] Speaker A: Yeah, synthonite. [01:22:19] Speaker B: That's just what I call the synthetic kryptonite. Blue causes. Oh, blue is basically regular kryptonite for Bizarro. [01:22:29] Speaker A: Nice. [01:22:29] Speaker B: So it only works on Bizarro. [01:22:31] Speaker A: That's funny shit. [01:22:32] Speaker B: And there's, like, three others that I'm not gonna waste our time with. [01:22:34] Speaker A: I mean, and with that, in terms of the colors of kryptonite, corner with handy. That is the Superman sequel. It is. Again, like, even watching through these, like, I think, thankfully enough, we are far enough away from when these films are originally coming out that we. I can. It does. [01:22:52] Speaker B: I still remember being mad when they came out. [01:22:55] Speaker A: No, but this. These sequels are, I think, just different enough in their own ways. They don't deter from Donner's original. And I would again argue, too, that if you've seen the original theatrical cut of Superman 2, but I've never watched the Donner cut, I'd recommend giving that a watch. Even though it's hard to find. You can get it on Blu Ray if it's like a three pack. I think of, like, you know, the original film and the Superman Returns, but, like, you know, you could also rent it digitally. But I would recommend, if you've never seen that, give it a watch. Because even though the film says, like, it could be a little rough because it's using, like, test footage and stuff, it's actually decently well edited. And also they use, like, genuine money to put special effects into them. [01:23:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:23:40] Speaker A: In a way that is kind of insane to think that that was, like, that's how much Warner Brothers wanted this guy cut. They, like, did 200 new VFX for that film. Like, at least that. So, like, I'd recommend that. And if you're morbidly curious and you've never seen 3 and 4, I'd say, yeah, give them a watch. But like I said, I think three is boring and bad, and I think four is dog and hilarious. Like, it's like. It really is just. You will definitely have more of a fun time with four. But I think what's Fascinating. And thank God that it didn't really determine, you know, past a decade to try to do Superman again when it felt right and lead to Superman Returns, which I think arguably is better than Superman 3 and 4. And it leads to something like man of Steel, which I think man of Steel, even though it has plenty of flaws in a lot of different places, is a unique take that clearly Snyder is aware of the Donner original and is trying his way to be like, how do I do that without it feeling like pulling too much from that? How do I do it my own Snyder way? Which we discuss in our episode about that. And now we're at a point where GUN is making a Superman film that I think one early review basically said it reminded them of why they love Superman 2. Like, there's a fun energy to like, there's a fun energy to two that like, hopefully it's a ton of Superman 2 that we like more. [01:25:09] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:25:09] Speaker A: But like the energy that I think people talk about where it's like it stands on its own, but clearly is influenced by the best of the original run. [01:25:18] Speaker B: Hopefully has that fun loving spirit. That's what it seems to have. Absolutely. [01:25:23] Speaker A: The crypto of it all, I think is just like that is going to really add to it. Fun goofiness to it. [01:25:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:25:28] Speaker B: I'm looking forward to crypto and also. [01:25:29] Speaker A: The fucking bowl cut on Nathan Fillion. [01:25:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:25:32] Speaker A: It's just. [01:25:33] Speaker B: I'm also just really excited to see how the movie handles. Like the Lois and Clark relationship. [01:25:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:39] Speaker B: Because I feel like it's gonna be very romance forward. [01:25:42] Speaker A: Because the best. Enter. The best thing I've heard from most reviews is that it doesn't feel like the movie is too over saturated with characters. Like, it doesn't feel too overwhelming despite. [01:25:55] Speaker B: Having a big ensemble. Doesn't feel. [01:25:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Despite introducing to a lot of audiences at least six or seven different superpowered individuals that are heroes or villains. And introducing a new era of DC that is going to basically kind of set the foundation. I know Creature Commandos came out last year, but like, genuinely for general audiences because Peacemaker and Creature Commandos, yes. Are a part of this universe, but they are. They are not a tent pole blockbuster Superman film. And from this, like, it is going to be interesting to see how that film. Because again, by the time this episode comes out, we will have already seen it. But it's just right before when we. [01:26:36] Speaker B: This is. [01:26:36] Speaker A: We're on opening weekend, but yeah, we're excited for it. And it was fun to kind of go through these sequels even though they Most of them were a little too long. At least the last one was 90 minutes. [01:26:49] Speaker B: Yeah, true. [01:26:51] Speaker A: You know, while I could say that, you know, at least Donner's cut of Superman in certain aspects of Superman 2 are fantastic, I would have to say for. Don't even. Don't do that. [01:27:04] Speaker B: Say that again. [01:27:04] Speaker A: I have to trace it. [01:27:05] Speaker B: Say that again. [01:27:07] Speaker A: Okay, give it a little zip. Little zip. Okay. Alrighty. [01:27:12] Speaker B: Fantastic. [01:27:13] Speaker A: I gotta get the brain rot out before I can get this in. [01:27:16] Speaker B: It's fantastic. [01:27:18] Speaker A: July 26, we are covering our final trilogy of July. Now that we have talked about, you know, Jurassic World in a quickie. Now that we've talked about the Superman. An honor Superman. With these sequels, we are also going to be in honoring the last big tentpole of July, which is first steps for Marvel's first family. So in honor of those first steps, we decided to go back and cover three decades of first steps that may or may not have led to a sequel or actually led to, you know. [01:27:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:27:54] Speaker A: Disowning. [01:27:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:27:56] Speaker B: Basically three different swings at introducing the world, reintroducing the world to Marvel's first. [01:28:02] Speaker A: Family that Andy has coined. And I really love the not so Fantastic Four trilogy, which is 1994's the Fantastic Four, 2005's the Fantastic Four, and then 2015's Fantastic Four, most notoriously known as Fant Four Stick. [01:28:20] Speaker B: Right. [01:28:21] Speaker A: Because the. Because the poster had the four right in the middle where the A was. [01:28:25] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:28:26] Speaker B: And if you're thinking, what do you mean 1994 is Fantastic Four? You'd be right to think that because the film was never actually released. [01:28:33] Speaker A: Oh, that's right. We're gonna do an odd trilogy. First. We're gonna be covering a film that. An unreleased film that, you know, via YouTube and other avenues you can find. [01:28:43] Speaker B: It has become available. [01:28:45] Speaker A: It has become available against its will. Is a film that was supposed to come out the same year as Jurassic Park. And you have to constantly think about that as you rewatch, you watch that movie. But in honor of Fantastic Four first steps, we are covering those three interpretations of the Fantastic Four. So tune in July 26th for that. And as always, I'm Logan Somosh. [01:29:07] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [01:29:08] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.