Episode 106: Not-So-Fantastic First Steps

[00:00:19] Speaker A: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Sowas. [00:00:23] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:00:24] Speaker A: In Odd Odd Trilogies, we take a trio of films, whether tied by cast and crew, thematic elements, or even just numerical orders, and we tackle the good, the bad and the weird surrounding each film. And today, I don't know, Andy, I'm just feeling a little fantastic. [00:00:38] Speaker B: Are you? I'm glad to hear that, because, you know, some of us may not be feeling so fantastic. [00:00:47] Speaker A: In case you don't know, as of this episode's release, there is a few first steps being put into theaters. As of right now, the new Fantastic Four film from the mcu, the film that maybe could another film that could, quote, unquote, save the mcu. [00:01:03] Speaker B: Yeah, I think we're like, three deep now on that. [00:01:06] Speaker A: Oh, I think generous. Well, especially during phase four and five. [00:01:11] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. [00:01:12] Speaker A: But before we even get to see that film, because in case you didn't know, we're doing this ahead of time. So we haven't seen the film yet, but I have heard that the Thing is in it, so I feel like we're already on a good start. [00:01:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:01:27] Speaker A: But the craziest thing about First Steps is that in the span of 30 years, it is, in fact the fourth iteration of the Fantastic Four in cinema. Because, crazy enough, there are actually three other films that try their best, and at one point, one does succeed. But we'll talk a little bit about that in trying to bring Marvel's first family and probably most popular family into the cinematic world. And so, that being said, we are going to be talking about today when Andy gave me this title for this, and honestly, I think it's great. We're going to be talking about our not so fantastic First Steps trilogy. [00:02:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:13] Speaker B: Three. Three prior attempts at getting the Fantastic Four off the ground, and none of them great, not all of them bad, but none of them great. [00:02:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And then, in case you don't know, is the first one we'll be talking about today is the unreleased Fantastic4 from. [00:02:31] Speaker B: 1994, which you may or may not. [00:02:33] Speaker A: Even know about, which sometimes is also shorthand. F494, which I think is F494. We'll also be talking about 2005's the Fantastic Four, which you might have seen, because out of the three films we'll be talking about today, that's the actual. That's the only one that's made a profit. [00:02:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:51] Speaker A: It actually got a sequel, which we'll talk a little bit About. And then of course our third one is probably our most notorious in terms of the production snafus. The director going outright on Twitter to say some wild shit about his ideas of the vision of the film. And also being a film that, hilariously enough, only being 10 years from today feels honestly like it's 20 years since that film came out. Considering how much superhero cinema, in a sense superhero movies have changed since 20. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Years, the landscape has just drastically changed. [00:03:29] Speaker A: So 94 is Fantastic Four. 2005's Fantastic Four and then 2015's Fantastic Four, also known as Fant Four Stick due to its notorious hilarious poster, which. [00:03:40] Speaker B: May be at least for me, my the go to way to describe it on this episode. Fan Forestic. Just to differentiate. [00:03:47] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:03:48] Speaker B: And maybe F494 for the first one. But interestingly, the 94 one's the only one that includes the. The. That's the only one that's the fantastic. For the other two are both just fantastic for that is. [00:04:00] Speaker A: I mean, that's fair too. [00:04:02] Speaker B: That's the modern, you know, that's modern design streamlining. [00:04:06] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's got that Justin Timberlake take the. The. Out of the Facebook. [00:04:14] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:04:15] Speaker A: Sean Parker. [00:04:16] Speaker B: Sean Parker. [00:04:16] Speaker A: Yeah, but yeah, it is. I mean, of course what's so fun is by the time this episode's come out, we've also talked about the Superman. The original Superman sequels. [00:04:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:27] Speaker A: Because of course, the same month we're getting the return of Fantastic Four to cinemas, we're also getting James Gunn's version of Superman a few weeks prior. [00:04:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:37] Speaker A: Which is wild, but also is what makes us hope to God that both of these films are good. [00:04:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:04:45] Speaker A: The. To really push, you know, the summer blockbuster energy. [00:04:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:49] Speaker A: That Ethan Hunt can only do so well. [00:04:51] Speaker B: Right. [00:04:51] Speaker A: The only push. [00:04:52] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:04:53] Speaker A: So long. [00:04:54] Speaker B: It also makes for fun kind of back to back episodes to go from like a single series with different attempts at continuing that story to multiple iterations of the same kind of concept. But disconnect it. [00:05:09] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean we would have not done the trill, both trilogies had Richard Pryor tried to kill both Superman and the Fantastic Four. But he does not do that, thankfully. Yeah, but what's, you know, starting off with our first film here, the unreleased one, which is hilarious to say that out loud because probably you're thinking out there, well, Andy and Logan, riddle me this, if it's never been released, how the hell have you seen it? Right, well, you see, the crazy thing about the film is that the film genuinely only existed initially to hold on to the rights of the films. [00:05:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:05:45] Speaker A: So the crazy thing about all three of these films is they actually all have something in common, which is they are all co produced by, and I might be butchering a few names from this point forward, the production company, Constantin Film, which is known for a lot of things. It is known for most notably and maybe notorious, depending on who you talk to. Their most popular franchise that they co produced was in fact Paul W.S. anderson's Resident Evil adaptations, which they also have done the one afterwards. And they're apparently still attached to Resident Evil in some way. But they've also done films like, you know, Downfall, which is about the final days of Adolf Hitler, that of course got notoriously mean to death. Like kind of early YouTube era. They co produced that. Off mic, I told Andy that hilariously there is a connection between Kevin Costner in these films. And that is because Constantine film also co produced Dances With Wolves. [00:06:40] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:42] Speaker A: They have. They also did Never Ending story in the 80s because what basically happened was Constantine kind of started around the 50s, early 60s and then basically went bankrupt around the 70s. And then they were able to bring it back as New Constantine film. They do not call it New Constantine, but I think legally it's called that. [00:06:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:00] Speaker A: And one of the people that brought it in back into kind of relevancy is, I believe his name is Bernd Eichner. Eichninger. Again, apologies for butchering his name because hilariously enough, I think technically the 94 fantastic four is known as an English language German film. [00:07:21] Speaker B: Right. [00:07:22] Speaker A: It is. It is a film where basically burned. Eichinger got the rights to Fantastic four in the 70s, got to fantastic Four and Silver Surfer. [00:07:33] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah. [00:07:34] Speaker A: And this is again way before Batman 89, before Blade. Yes. After Superman. But it's at this point still very. [00:07:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean superhero media was very nice. Like nascent outside of comics. [00:07:48] Speaker A: Yes. And so it's like at this point, getting the Fantastic Four in an era we're probably. I don't know, Richard Pryor is trying to kill Superman in the Superman sequel. It's kind of. And also like for Marvel, you think of what is Marvel big at the time, it's probably not. If it's not the comics, it's either cartoons or the Lou Ferrigno. [00:08:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:08] Speaker B: The Hulk TV show. [00:08:10] Speaker A: And so at this point it's like he's holding on to these because at the time, Fantastic Four, hilariously enough, in an era where it feels like any time you bring up Fantastic Four, you either going to have people who are trying to Just be like, listen, they are fun and they can be cool. Just let it happen. Or people just be like, yeah, I. It's got the guy that says flame on and the woman who's invisible and the guy that is stretchy. And none of the movies have been able to make him look cool. And it's like, okay, it doesn't have to look cool. Hold on. The. The. The Marvel's first family was a big deal for kids in the early years, especially when it started going into the 70s and 80s. And apparently a lot of the people involved in this film wanted to be a part of it because they liked Fantastic Four. But I can do gets the rights to the films and to Fantastic Four to make films with it. And the. Apparently the film's rights expire and at the end of 1992, he does not want to give them back to Marvel. He asked for an extension on those rights from Marvel. Marvel does not accept. So the man must make a movie with him. Which a modern example I guess, of this is probably, let's say the Amazing Spider man films. Because those films mainly exist. [00:09:26] Speaker B: They exist to keep the rights. Yeah, not low budget, but. [00:09:29] Speaker A: No, no, no, because. Yeah, again, 94, Fantastic Four was basically, rumor has it that it started production. The rights went back to Marvel 12-31-92, and they started production 12-28-92. And production went for about 20 to 25 days. And it was directed by Ole Ceson, who or Sasson at the time, I think was mainly for music videos as well as other things. But most notably with this film is that, you know, I could juror is a big part of this. Olay is a big part of this. But usually when people talk about 94, Fantastic Four, they are talking about one specific person and that is the legendary producer of Schlock himself. The man, the myth, the legend, Roger Corman. A man who has more B movies under his belt than probably anybody else. Yeah, whoever ran the industry for as long as he was in the industry. And of course they basically wanted to make a film to keep the rights and make it low budget. And so what? What do they get? They got a million dollars. A million dollars to make a superhero film at the end of 1992 into 93. The film was supposed to come out in 94 and never did. [00:10:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:42] Speaker A: But the reason why we are talking about it is because work prints as well as versions of the film basically got leaked. And at the time it was VHS cassettes as well as probably just like an urban legend that kind of got passed around. And then now, with the glory of the Internet, right out of the two of us, I was actually. I have actually seen this. [00:11:02] Speaker B: You had seen it? [00:11:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:03] Speaker A: And the reason why I'd seen it is because of classic modern Internet fashion. This was on YouTube at one point. It is not on YouTube anymore. [00:11:12] Speaker B: We found other means. [00:11:13] Speaker A: We find other means to see it. But, you know, this is a film that kind of gets hopped on YouTube for a while. Probably gets pulled off by Constantine. [00:11:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:11:21] Speaker A: For copyright infringement to a degree. And then finds its way back. But yeah, there is. I mean, if you want more details about how the film was made, in terms of the production process, in terms of the actors, in terms of how long. There is actually a documentary that seems pretty solid that is currently on prime, but you could probably rent it in most places. It's called Look it up on My Phone Again. There it is. There we go. It's called Doomed. Ah. The untold story of Roger Corman's the Fantastic Four showing Andy, what the poster kind of looked like. [00:11:53] Speaker B: Beautiful. [00:11:54] Speaker A: It has apparently a lot of the cast members involved talking about the film. There's also been a the Navy Club article, literally in the last few years that has been talking about like real talking to the cast and crew about what led to working on the film. And there's definitely. Especially considering how big superhero movies have gotten in the past 20 years. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Right. [00:12:18] Speaker A: Is basically unearthed a lot of people, you know, talking about the films that either they saw when they were younger, that they were like, is. Am I crazy? Did this ever happen? [00:12:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:27] Speaker A: Or films they loved, you know, in the 80s, in the 90s, that never got enough love. And of course are now it's like, let's bring them back. You know, examples like, you know, Wesley Snipes is late 90s Blade Films, as well as these other kind of situations where, you know, there is clearly an energy to this movie that feels like. From even the poster, the teaser poster itself, it feels very much like Richard Donner. Superman is clearly an inspiration. Yeah. [00:12:57] Speaker B: An ambition. [00:12:58] Speaker A: But, you know, you can only do so much with a million dollars and also an hour less time to tell the story. Because this movie is like a tight 90. And I wanted to get all of that out of the way in terms of like, if you wanted more about. [00:13:14] Speaker B: The behind the scenes context. [00:13:15] Speaker A: Because. Yeah, because in terms of like prep and homework that we did this episode. We both did watch Rise of the Silver Surfer. [00:13:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:23] Speaker A: Which we will talk. [00:13:23] Speaker B: Which is not a first step. We did it anyway. [00:13:26] Speaker A: No, no, no. It's. I Think it's. We should address it as well as the fact that since First Steps is also, you know, covering Silver Surfer, Galactus and so we'll touch on a little bit. But like the reason why I want to get that out of the way and talk about. Because there's a lot of interesting stuff surrounding the production of this film. Because when you actually watch the movie, this movie is batshit insane. And also is I, in my opinion the worst of the three. [00:13:51] Speaker B: It's. [00:13:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:52] Speaker B: Terrible. [00:13:52] Speaker A: Which says a lot because when you're in a trilogy with fan for Stick and you are the worst film that is saying a lot. But then again, I put in my letterbox review. This is the type of film where if you took a shot for every time you said internally, oh, no wonder this never got released. You'd be dead in the first 20 minutes. [00:14:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:12] Speaker B: A lot of weird choices. [00:14:13] Speaker A: There's a lot of weird choices. Hilariously, the film initially feels like it is not. It doesn't want the family to go up in space because they build this idea that like Doom and Doom and Reed are friends in college and so are Ben. Ben, Doom and Read are all friends in college. Johnny and sue are like 10 years younger. [00:14:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:37] Speaker A: Which out the gate again going into this film, knowing what this film was and like watching this with Andy as well as our friend and you know, our most recurring guest on the pod so far, Adam LeClaire. They had never seen this film or I think if Adam had seen this with me in college, he completely blocked it. [00:14:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:55] Speaker B: He did not remember seeing it. [00:14:57] Speaker A: The moment where they both realized that sue was a child and reads adult actor who plays himself the entire film. [00:15:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:07] Speaker A: That they, they were basically still going to do their Sue Reed love interest romance even though she's like 14, 15 and he's clearly like 24, 25 or supposed to be. The disgust on both of their faces and then the realization that we're barely 10 to 15. [00:15:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:24] Speaker B: Well, it's like the first time you see her, you're like struck with the fact that, oh, she's a child. And moments later, Reid kisses her on the cheek. It's like, you know, not a sexual thing but you know, it's going there because they're inevitably going to be romantic. [00:15:41] Speaker A: Interest because sue, after he, she gets that kiss, she almost is like, wow. We like almost like weird swooning. Swooning over this man. [00:15:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:15:51] Speaker B: And shortly thereafter we have a 10 year time jump and she's an adult and they're falling in love. It's like, okay. [00:15:58] Speaker A: And it's like, okay, what? Of all the reasons. [00:16:00] Speaker B: Lovely. [00:16:01] Speaker A: To not have them all be the same age, why is this the. Why is this the adaptation that wants to do that also? Yeah. [00:16:07] Speaker B: It didn't serve anything, really. [00:16:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:09] Speaker B: It didn't really give the story about a better angle to add a gap between them. [00:16:15] Speaker A: Yeah. I can only imagine if there's like a. There's an energy of like. Well, everyone knows the backstory. [00:16:21] Speaker B: What if we change it in 1994? [00:16:23] Speaker A: I guess the people who work on this movie are like. I think one of the writers on this film basically convinced Eichenger to be a part of the film because he was like, look. And has like all these fucking comics. [00:16:37] Speaker C: Right. [00:16:37] Speaker A: Like, I've been writing about these guys. Or, like, I think toys or just being. I've been a fan for years. And to think of that. [00:16:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:44] Speaker A: While watching this movie and be like, I get it. At the end of the day, there's only so much you can do with a million dollars. [00:16:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:53] Speaker A: And again, a million dollars back then is a lot more than a million dollars now. But still, it's not. It's not enough for the type of film that you want to make with the Fantastic Four. [00:17:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:17:04] Speaker A: Like, compared to, like, the Tim Story film, the second film in our trilogy, where it's like that film basically keeps them on Earth for 95% of the film. And that film is, I think, 80 million. [00:17:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:18] Speaker A: It's like, it's. It's still expensive as shit. And they barely go into space. [00:17:22] Speaker B: Right. Right. [00:17:23] Speaker A: So it's like, clearly the way they get around that, hilariously, is one. They're, you know, they're trying to get a radi. A cosmic radiation from a cloud that is every 10 years. [00:17:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:36] Speaker A: It passes by Earth, and then Doom builds a machine that's supposed to suck the radiation, the. The machine up. Doom becomes, I guess, deformed. I don't think we ever see his face under the mask. [00:17:49] Speaker B: No, not really. [00:17:51] Speaker A: And then he just, like, you know, goes to Latveria. [00:17:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Then he's in a. [00:17:57] Speaker B: He's in a Castle for 10 years. [00:17:59] Speaker A: Yeah, he's Castle for 10 years. And it's kind of that situation where it's like, you know, they do the time jump. [00:18:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:18:07] Speaker A: They're all adults now, hilariously enough. And again, I think all the actors are doing their absolute best. Again with a million dollars. [00:18:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:17] Speaker A: Being like, you know what? It's the Fantastic Four. Let's have fun with it. But to be clear. And this is not going to be the last time we say this, sue has very little to do. Sue is eye candy. If anything, her big. Her big strategy in the most lazy way possible. Since she's the invisible, she gets two guys right next to her, and as they try to bum rush her, she goes invisible and moves out of the way. [00:18:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:44] Speaker A: I mean, again, thank God she's not the damsel in distress the entire time. But at the same time, it is. [00:18:49] Speaker B: Like, yeah, she's just not. I mean, none of these characters are complex or layered, but she just. [00:18:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:57] Speaker B: Has no actual character. All she's there is to do the. The little invisible gimmick. [00:19:03] Speaker A: And Johnny is. Is a. Is a grown man. That feels like it's a. It's someone 10 years older portraying, like, it's like someone. I don't even know how old that actor is. I don't either, but probably the age of Johnny. But the way that they dress him. [00:19:20] Speaker B: And the way he acts is like a 14 year old. [00:19:23] Speaker A: It is so weird. He also has this weird. He looked like an elf on a shelf at times. His design, with his hair, the look of him, the way he act. There's a jovial aspect where it's like, yes. Johnny is the free spirit, the youngest of the four always. And is usually the little brother. [00:19:42] Speaker B: He kind of looks like a. Like a liveaction, earthbound character. [00:19:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:47] Speaker B: Like Ness, you know, kind of that energy. [00:19:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:51] Speaker B: Lucas. [00:19:52] Speaker A: It is. And he. And when he. Oh, my Lord. When he flames on. [00:19:57] Speaker B: Oh, boy. [00:19:57] Speaker A: That's where most that budget went. [00:19:59] Speaker B: Which. [00:19:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:00] Speaker B: He only fully flames on at the very end of the film. [00:20:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:03] Speaker B: Because they had to save the budget for it. But he mostly just, like, sets his hand on fire and shoots a fire beam the most. [00:20:11] Speaker A: He does. Yeah. Before he becomes full flame on. Just classic Human Torch is doing that flame beam that is, like, barely works. [00:20:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:21] Speaker A: Hilariously, Human Torch is like the weakest of the four. The Of. [00:20:24] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:25] Speaker B: Which is funny because I feel like every other, like, version of the story about the Fantastic Four ultimately is like, oh, yeah. Human Torch is just, like, insanely powerful when you think about it. [00:20:36] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Because it's like if he knows how to handle his abilities, he can be a super. [00:20:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:20:42] Speaker B: And be literally as hot as the death of a sun or death of a star. [00:20:46] Speaker A: Read Mr. Fantastic. This is gonna. This is gonna get echoed throughout this entire trilogy. [00:20:54] Speaker B: It's a refrain. [00:20:55] Speaker A: It is the one thing I am worried about the most with even first steps. Because the thing about Reid is that I think in these three films, you get a Sense of each actor kind of understanding at a certain point, a different interpretation of Reed that kind of makes sense in terms of like a bookworm who is obsessed with his work. Who, of course, is just like. Even though in this film they do not push the smartest man in the world aspect. No, there is an energy of, like, at the very beginning of the film, they. They try to do it a way where it's like the professor at the beginning of the film is asking Reed to finish his sentences because he's forgetting. [00:21:35] Speaker C: Yeah, right, right. [00:21:37] Speaker A: And that's, I guess, an inch. A version that is implying that, like, Reed is smarter than the teachers. They're going to school for what not. But, like, you know, we'll talk about the other versions of them, too. It's like, I think there are actors out there and we've had interpretations where it's like, I can see what the directors and the writers and the creators were trying to think of when they casted these people. But the fucking thing is, Mr. Fantastic, being as smart as can be is one aspect of the man. And if you completely fuck up his stretchy arm aspect, it almost completely like. Because the thing about this movie, because the reason why. Because basically this film was watched in college, at least with my. You know, with one of my best friends, Drew Shearer, who, you know, we have a love of schlock. We have a love of movies. And like, in college, we had a moment where I'm pretty sure what happened was, is that Adam and another one of our friends was. Had a. Had a plight to watch the Super Mario Brothers movie every single day for, like a month. [00:22:43] Speaker B: I remember this. I attended one screening. [00:22:45] Speaker A: It was a nightmare to watch. Just how they deteriorated and how they were like, no, man, this is a good idea. While we were like, that just doesn't seem fun. [00:22:56] Speaker B: No. [00:22:56] Speaker A: And so we had this idea of, like, what if we just, like, spent a month of our own curating all these shitty movies that we've heard about for years and years? And so that leads to, like, watching. God. We watched the room for the first time in college. We found this wild film called the Black Gestapo, which is like, the trailer is insane. And unfortunately, the film is not as insane as the trailer. But one of the films that came to mind when we. I think we talked about initially talking about watching the Blotch so bad it's good films is there were a lot of set photos from this film that got leaked before a lot of people even got to see the film. And one of the set photos Is, of course, course, how they do the Mr. Fantastic Stretchy Arms. [00:23:40] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:23:41] Speaker A: And it is hilarious. It is. Honest to God, if I ever wanted. If I ever watch this movie again, it would be solely to watch people react to how they do him because they basically similar to how Lazy sue is. They basically set up scenarios where people are falling or in front of something dangerous so they can do the extendo arm, grab someone and pull them over. [00:24:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:11] Speaker A: And it is so fucking funny. And it's also fucking funny. This movie's last, like, I guess, effect shot is a shot of Reed and Sue getting married, getting in the limo. And then there is a, Like a stretchy arm. Mr. Fantastic Arm from the. The sunroof, wavy, waving back and forth. [00:24:30] Speaker B: And it's like this big, long rubber arm. [00:24:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:24:33] Speaker A: Which I would happily put in my sunroof just as a gag. That's funny as. [00:24:37] Speaker B: Yeah, well, the funny thing, too, about Reed's stretchy arms is like every time it happens, it's always a very, like, sudden shot. And they don't linger on it very long because they don't want you to, you know, pick it apart. So, yeah, it's this very quick cut of his hand, like, coming at the camera, and it's. It looks like a horse horror scene every single time. [00:24:56] Speaker A: And thank God they didn't try to do what the other films end up doing, which is like, him, like sliding under doors. [00:25:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:02] Speaker B: I don't know how they would have pulled that out. [00:25:04] Speaker C: That would have been. [00:25:04] Speaker B: With this budget. [00:25:05] Speaker A: Horrifying. [00:25:07] Speaker B: They just would have had his empty wardrobe and then drag it under the door. [00:25:12] Speaker A: And again, thank God we're talking about the worst film first out of the way. Because we also get to talk about the worst interpretation of the Thing. [00:25:20] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:25:22] Speaker A: Which is a. Again, the guy that plays Ben Grimm before he becomes the Thing is a big dude. [00:25:28] Speaker B: He's a big dude. He's, like, clearly bigger than everybody else. [00:25:31] Speaker A: That guy was not a football player before he was in this film in some way, shape or form. He is built like he should have played college at one point. [00:25:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:38] Speaker B: He's got to be six and a half feet tall. [00:25:41] Speaker A: Yeah. He is built the way that Uncle Rico talks about himself. [00:25:46] Speaker B: Right. [00:25:46] Speaker A: Where it's like, I could take stage. I could take stage. It's that situation. And then when he becomes the Thing, it is almost like he shrinks half a foot. [00:25:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:25:55] Speaker A: And also can barely move his mouth because it's a fucking mask over a real person's face. His constant pose looks like he is. He's a child that threw up and doesn't want to tell his parents. [00:26:09] Speaker B: Yeah, there's something he's not. They gave him, like, the suit obviously has muscles and is made to look like a strong, muscular being, but, yeah, it's not proportioned out in a way that allows, like, the arms to kind of stand out on their own. So they kind of look bunched up against the chest and give you. Gives you that, mom, I threw up look, like you said. [00:26:32] Speaker A: It's that mixed with, like, feeling like you're watching someone who is high and is like, maybe they accidentally. Themselves too paranoid to let anybody know that something happened. [00:26:42] Speaker B: Well, it is kind of. Kind of ape like, too, because he's kind of, like, sunken and. And he looks like the word. He looks slumped. [00:26:52] Speaker A: Yeah, he looks like Donkey Kong from the cgi, like, cartoon show. [00:26:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:56] Speaker B: And he has, like. He kind of has those sad eyes, too. Like that sad. But, like. [00:27:01] Speaker A: Yeah, like, I think one of the. The most fun moments watching this film with you two was definitely the part where he goes, I'm a monster. [00:27:11] Speaker B: He just screams. Awful noise. I don't know what it is. [00:27:15] Speaker A: We had to cut, come back and rewind. [00:27:18] Speaker B: Well, there's multiple times where he screams. And I think they put, like, a lion roar or something in it probably. [00:27:24] Speaker A: Yeah. It's so funny because again, if anything, what's so fun about this is that you can almost see in real time people in the production who were having probably a good time trying to put this together. [00:27:39] Speaker C: Right. [00:27:39] Speaker A: Realize, oh, yeah, I can understand, like, this guy technically looks like the thing from the comics, but when you don't adapt him enough to look maybe grounded enough or do little changes to his design here. Yeah, it really just looks like a man with a second skin and kind of looks like a roughed up Komodo dragon. [00:28:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:03] Speaker B: He looks more reptilian than rock because it's. Yeah. The texture is not convincing. [00:28:07] Speaker A: Or apparently, you know, with the Doom situation, where it's like Doom's costume is objectively accurate to the character. It is the fact that the actor. They found out as they were doing it, the mask obscured his voice so much that he had to basically go into Shakespearean, like, gestures to really add to the magnitude. [00:28:30] Speaker B: Really overact. [00:28:32] Speaker A: I think the little bit of the A.V. club article I read, I believe that they told him to almost use Mussolini as, like, an inspiration. You want. You want Doom to be a huge tyrant? [00:28:43] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:28:44] Speaker A: Like a dramatic tyrant. And I think that's fudgeing. Hilarious. [00:28:47] Speaker B: That is hilarious. [00:28:48] Speaker A: One billion dollar Fantastic Four filming. You're wearing that outfit and you're like, I don't know, channel a dictator. [00:28:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:55] Speaker A: Because that's. [00:28:56] Speaker B: I'm Sci Fi Mussolini. [00:28:58] Speaker A: It's just. I mean, it really is just like. It is the origin of the family, which is hilariously, I believe, the longest or origin out of all three of these films. [00:29:08] Speaker B: God. [00:29:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:09] Speaker B: How long is it? It's 90 minutes. [00:29:10] Speaker A: It's 90 minutes. I think it's like 45 to 50. And it's mainly just like getting through the college. [00:29:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:18] Speaker A: The spate, the ride into space, which, by the way, is all stock footage, right. [00:29:23] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:29:24] Speaker A: Which is hilarious. Yeah. [00:29:25] Speaker B: Because it is over halfway through the film before, like, we're really doing any fantastic footage. [00:29:32] Speaker A: And what's crazy, too, is that that's not even talking about the B plot. [00:29:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:36] Speaker A: Which is so funny. The B plot is basically a bunch of homeless monsters that live in the sewer at one point. Because the Thing in the comics. And she'll show up again in the second film here, barely, but she's. In the second film, there's a character named Alicia who is a. Ben's love interest. When she. When he becomes the Thing, because it ends up being like. They fall in love because she sees him for who he really is. Because she's blind, she can't fully see he. That he's a monster, per se. It's just like she just. She sees Ben for how he should really be seen. But, you know, everyone goes, ah, you're a rock monster. [00:30:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:16] Speaker A: It's like they're like they. They are together. I think. I don't think he has any other love interest in the comics. If I. Maybe. Maybe there are other characters in the Marvel universe that have. [00:30:26] Speaker B: Sure. [00:30:27] Speaker A: You know, tried to tie down the Thing. I just know Alicia, and she's played by Kerry Washington. In the second film, she's in two scenes. That's why I'm bringing it up right now. [00:30:37] Speaker B: Because in the 2005. [00:30:38] Speaker A: In the 2005 film, she's in more scenes in Rise of the Silver Surfer, but she's still very little in both of those movies. [00:30:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:45] Speaker A: She is a weirdly prominent part in this movie for the B plot. Because who we thought was the Mole man initially. [00:30:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:55] Speaker A: Because the Mole man is an iconic villain for the Fantastic Four. Was not. He was. [00:31:01] Speaker B: He is someone else called the Jeweler. [00:31:03] Speaker A: The Jeweler, I think. Yeah. And he's like, ah, my bride. [00:31:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:08] Speaker A: Think she's beautiful. And just like, maybe because she's blind, she'll just love me. And something like that. [00:31:14] Speaker B: Yeah, he's just this underground creepo who doesn't really do anything except kidnap Alicia. [00:31:21] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. It is one of those things where, like, you will be watching the. The Fantastic Four doom shenanigans and be like, this is kind of what I expected. And it'll cut to, what's Alicia doing with the jeweler? And it's like, why? [00:31:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:31:34] Speaker A: And it's like, oh, it's probably trying to fill up time. [00:31:37] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:31:37] Speaker A: Because the funniest part about B plot is at a certain point, the B plot does tie into the A plot where the thing. Basically, Ben leaves the team for a little bit, gets pulled in from, like, the homeless vagrants who are part of the jewelers. Right Team. And then that's when he gets sucked into Alicia's plot line. While he's trying to save Alicia, Doom shows up. And then Doom and the jeweler go face to face. And I'm you, not Doom basically goes, I don't care what you're doing. Starts wrecking shit. It just doesn't matter what happened. The B plot is useless. I think it's so funny. [00:32:19] Speaker B: It takes up so much of the film's runtime and nothing happens. [00:32:23] Speaker A: And it's, It's. It's supposed to be. I think the intention is to give Ben some confidence, you know, reintroduce him to Alicia. Because even though Ben and Alicia have only talked before this moment, at the early part of the film when Ben was still human and she felt his face. [00:32:41] Speaker B: Right, right, right. [00:32:42] Speaker A: That's the funny thing, too. She felt his face once and then later they believe he's dead. And so they all. They make for the B plot. Alicia is an artist, and so they make these, like, these realistic busts of each of the Fantastic Four's faces as a memorial. [00:33:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:03] Speaker A: And then she, of course, since she's blind in the 90s and there's no real, you know, subtlety whatsoever. [00:33:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:09] Speaker A: She starts feeling every single face and then she feels Ben's and it's like, oh, no, Ben. She just remembers the one time she touched his face. [00:33:18] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:21] Speaker A: Again, the best part about this movie. Also the most frustrating aspect, which is just like, ah, what can he do? We didn't release it. This movie sucks. But it's a fun time to watch if you've. If you. If you are genuinely like, I don't want to watch Fan4 stick. I've seen the Tim Story films maybe a little too many times. Is there any Fantastic Four media? I've never, you know, Take consumed. Well, guess what? Look for this. And you'll probably really respect the other films in this trilogy just a smidge more. [00:33:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:55] Speaker A: At baseline. [00:33:57] Speaker B: Yeah. And honestly, I mean, I maintain what we said earlier, this is the worst in the trilogy, but, yeah. You know, it. You might. You might just get more out of it than. Than the 2015 film, just because it's, you know, it's a different era. It's lots of schlock. Not necessarily good, juicy schlock, but schlock nonetheless. And. And there's a story to it. Obviously, there's a story behind the 2015 one, which we'll get to as well, but that one came out in kind of an era of oversaturation, and it's kind of, you know, one of the movies that you could look to as like a part of the problem. [00:34:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:33] Speaker B: Whereas this 94 film is just kind of a weird anomaly. [00:34:39] Speaker A: Yes. [00:34:40] Speaker B: That shouldn't exist again. I mean, literally shouldn't exist. [00:34:43] Speaker A: The wonders. Again, the wonders of the Internet. The best. The reason why it's a fun watch, especially if you haven't seen it before or you can get a group to watch it, is because you all sit down and realize we're about to watch something that none of us were never able. Were ever supposed to. Yeah. So anytime you're like, this is dog, you go. That makes sense. [00:35:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:07] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:35:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:08] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:35:09] Speaker B: Well, everyone, that's not to say it's like an easy, fun time, but, like, if you have friends with you, you know. [00:35:15] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:35:15] Speaker B: It could be a good time. [00:35:16] Speaker A: I do not want to hear, hear anyone out here after this episode watching this movie by themselves. [00:35:21] Speaker B: No, no, no, please don't. [00:35:23] Speaker A: It is not a good time. [00:35:25] Speaker B: You are better off never watching this movie than watching it by yourself. [00:35:29] Speaker A: But I will also. I will say it is. It is funny that I think for two of the films in this trilogy with 94, Fantastic Four and Fan Forstic, I think both films are at times a blast with people for different reasons. And of course, this one is because it hasn't. It has the era of the energy of. I'm not supposed to see this. [00:35:51] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:35:52] Speaker A: And therefore, I'm kind of getting a little bit more out of how funny this is Van Forest, that we will get to where I go to that. But, you know, this film, again, the box office for this film is zero because it never really. [00:36:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:36:06] Speaker A: So for the longest time, there was not a Fantastic Four film for at least another 11 years. However, making that film, even though it was not released, led to Constantinopilm still having the rights. [00:36:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:22] Speaker A: So from this point forward, Even in the 2015 film, Constantin Film is a co producer on a Fantastic Four production. So as we go into 2005, Constantine is still there. And now we're in an era where now we've gone from the 90s where it's almost embarrassing to be a Marvel property, because there hasn't been any kind of Marvel property that it's felt like it's really hit at that point. In the early 90s. [00:36:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:47] Speaker A: To the early 2000s, where at this point, we are three years out from Sam Raimi, Spider Man. We are six years out from X Men. We are now at a point where Marvel is actually making profitable and at best case scenario, interesting, entertaining blockbusters. [00:37:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:07] Speaker A: In an era where people only thought you could do that with Batman or Superman. And lo and behold, when a Marvel property is doing well and your studio that has a Marvel property that is, you know, technically never had a film in theaters. [00:37:23] Speaker B: Right. [00:37:23] Speaker A: And you're like, well, shit, let's just work with Fox, who's made X Men work so well, and let's just make a Fantastic Four film. Go. Let's just fucking run it. [00:37:33] Speaker C: Yep. [00:37:34] Speaker A: And so what we get in 2005 is technically the most successful out of the three of these. [00:37:39] Speaker C: Yes. [00:37:39] Speaker A: Which is the one that most people listening to this podcast have probably seen the rest, whether you've seen it fucking. [00:37:47] Speaker B: Played on FX all the time for. [00:37:48] Speaker A: A decade, that's just Fox really pushing down your throat. I know. It's just. It is a film that, to be honest, it's hilarious now because, you know, back then, I had never actually, when this film first came out in 2005, I don't think I even saw it in theaters. [00:38:07] Speaker B: I know. [00:38:07] Speaker A: This was. [00:38:07] Speaker B: I did either. [00:38:08] Speaker A: I did see, I believe, Silver Surfer in theaters. [00:38:11] Speaker C: Okay. [00:38:12] Speaker A: But with Fantastic Four, this was a film that, like, I think. Yeah. The first time I saw it was probably on Effect. [00:38:18] Speaker B: I'm pretty sure I remember seeing it on TV for the first time. [00:38:21] Speaker A: I had the video game for the first film, which was basically a. An X Men slash. Like Marvel ultimate alliance, but shittier. Oh. Like the four, like four players play as each person. Hilariously, they try to make the Mole man work in that universe, which is very hilarious. But that was basically what I knew about that original film at the time. [00:38:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:46] Speaker A: Now when I look at the 2005 film, I have to say that as someone who's excited about first steps, as someone who thinks we are much better off superhero wise, than we were in the early 2000s. I have to say that, man, it was just a lot of fun going back to that simpler time. [00:39:05] Speaker B: Sure. And it was a simpler time. [00:39:08] Speaker A: This is a movie that is not constantly worried about. Fuck. How does a connected universe work into this? How the fuck do we make this look real and grounded? [00:39:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:18] Speaker A: This is a movie where immediately as it starts, it puts the four in your face. Doesn't even fucking put a title card for the Fantastic Four. And then hard cuts to Von Doom's iron, like, metal statue. Ben and Reed are already friends. Reed and sue had a falling out in the first 10 to 15 minutes. We are already in space. [00:39:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:43] Speaker A: By the 45 minute mark, they have already gotten their powers. They've already hit all their lows, especially the thing. Basically losing his wife. [00:39:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:52] Speaker A: In that process. [00:39:52] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:39:53] Speaker B: She leaves him. Yeah. [00:39:54] Speaker A: Doing their first heroic act as a team. And Johnny creating in his head the name fantastic 4 by 45 minutes. And then you have another hour to basically just fuck around with what you built out. And it's like, all right, we're just taken from what Raimi did in Spider Man. [00:40:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:13] Speaker B: There's a lot of the Raimi template in this, to be honest. [00:40:18] Speaker A: It. It works for the Fantastic Four. [00:40:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:21] Speaker B: It works well enough. [00:40:22] Speaker A: They work it well enough because again, yeah, this movie is a solid three out of five for me. It is. It is very much like, can it get better from here? God, I hope so. But the fact that I can go back to this movie and just feel like at this point in an era where, like, we are way too connected to what, you know, studios are doing, There were. I mean, by. By the time this episode has come out, there's probably already been, like, thousands of fucking leaks about Doomsday and all these things about, like, you know, you know, D.C. still better than Marvel. And James Gunn's gonna fuck up Superman. [00:41:00] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:41:01] Speaker A: You go back to early Internet, everybody. [00:41:04] Speaker B: Was just like, holy shit, they're making a Fantastic Four movie. [00:41:07] Speaker A: And then, of course, you see Michael Chiklis as a big Cheeto man. [00:41:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:11] Speaker A: And you just take it at face. [00:41:14] Speaker B: Like, what the fuck? That's the thing on the big screen. [00:41:17] Speaker A: When Johnny Storm jumps out of a helicopter to snowboard with Maria Menounos. [00:41:23] Speaker B: I forgot she was in this movie. [00:41:25] Speaker A: Oh, gosh. [00:41:26] Speaker B: Until we. Until rewatching. [00:41:28] Speaker A: Oh, man, you're hot. Well, thank you. So are you. It is a jump out of the helicopter to, I believe, a needle drop of some 41. [00:41:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:39] Speaker A: There is nothing that has felt like more Nostalgia to a film. I have no real feeling, like, emotional connection to them being like. I just kind of miss how they're just, like, throwing. Oh, you know what this band is. You know, how cool. Extreme sports. Johnny's just, you know, Johnny's hot, she's hot. They're going to go for it. And also, guess what? He can turn into the tour. It's like. It is just so. It is wearing everything on its sleeve. There's no ulterior motive. It is just trying to be cool. [00:42:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:12] Speaker A: I mean, failing a lot of the time. [00:42:14] Speaker B: I mean, because that was that, you know, that's. That was the name of the game of superhero movies in the 2000s. Was like, okay, we've made X Men. We've made Spider Man. Superheroes are a successful idea now. I guess now we got to make as many superheroes seem cool enough to be on the big screen as possible. And again, it's just as opposed to today, where it's more like, we got to figure out how this fits into a larger puzzle. [00:42:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:39] Speaker B: In this, it's a simpler motive. It's just we got to. We got to make people want to see these people. [00:42:45] Speaker A: And again, you have. At this moment, you have, like, other Marvel stuff is like Del Toro's Blade 2, which is fucking wild. [00:42:52] Speaker B: Or Hellboy, too. [00:42:53] Speaker A: No, there's Hellboy as well as Blade two is like Blade two. [00:42:57] Speaker B: That was Del Toro. [00:42:58] Speaker A: Del Toro's play, too. Del Toro does Blade two and then gets Hellboy, which comes out a year before this. There's also the daredevil film that was supposed to be rated R and then kind of like got cut to be PG13, then got a director's cut, and then that spawned the Electra spin off, which that movie blows. And I just. Okay, listen, I'm glad that Jennifer Gardner was in. Spoiler alert. Deadpool and Wolverine. But doesn't make Electra any good. It is again, at this era where they're just like, now studios are just throwing shit at the wall. While D.C. at this point, you know, this is the same year that fucking Batman Begins comes out. [00:43:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:40] Speaker A: That I saw in theaters. I. Again. So this is where we're at. That's a perfect litmus test to where we're at right now, where Nolan is bringing Batman to the most gritty grounded he has ever been. [00:43:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:43:54] Speaker A: While Tim's story is just doing fucking Fantastic Four in the modern age. To an extent. [00:44:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:04] Speaker A: Like, it's not the silliness. It is clearly. Like, it is got all this advertising. It is this, it is just a corporate product that is just unabashed. [00:44:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:17] Speaker A: It's so funny to think that in the span of like, it's got to be weeks when Nolan's Batman came out than when this came out. [00:44:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. [00:44:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:27] Speaker A: It's like, it's got to be probably early summer to late summer of 2005. [00:44:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:32] Speaker B: This one was in July. [00:44:36] Speaker A: Okay. [00:44:37] Speaker B: And Batman Begins was June, so they were a month apart. [00:44:46] Speaker A: Look at that again. And then around this time is also, I think a year after. This is like Superman returns. [00:44:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:54] Speaker B: That's like 2006. 07. [00:44:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:56] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's wild to think the Reddit at a time where there's a new Batman, there's new Fantastic Four. You're doing a fucking Electra film. [00:45:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:45:06] Speaker A: Blade just got a sequel. Blade the Vampire Hunter just got right. And Hellboy's getting a movie. And it's like all these things that you never thought. This is. This is like the gold rush. [00:45:19] Speaker B: Yeah, it is kind of the. It is the gold rush. Literally watching studios have realized, oh, this can actually work. Let's all do it. [00:45:28] Speaker A: This is definitely the era where it's like, I don't remember which studio has like Namor or like, you know, Sony having Venom. [00:45:35] Speaker B: I think Neymar was Fox for the longest time. [00:45:37] Speaker A: Well, it's just all these studios being like, haha, we have a comic book character. You're. We're gonna find a way to use it. And then it's like the diminishing returns of just throwing at the wall, just not going anywhere up until, you know, Iron Man. And then it just completely revitalizes the 2000s in terms of what superheroes are and spends the next nearly 20 years changing how we see that. And again, to think that Iron man in this movie only have three years apart. [00:46:09] Speaker B: Yeah, time is weird. [00:46:10] Speaker A: The fact that Silver Surfer and this in Iron man have a year, I think less than a year. It just. [00:46:16] Speaker B: Ghost rider was also 2007 right here before Iron Man. [00:46:21] Speaker A: It's just. It is just again, it'll be. I think the 2000s era of superhero films, especially the early to mid 2000s, will only get seen fonder in the most nostalgic way possible with each new decades passing because of just how the Internet. Well, because again, nerd culture and the Internet have been tied together since the fucking. Since the dawn of the Internet. [00:46:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:49] Speaker A: So of course people were definitely shitting on and fucking with these movies at the time, but it's nowhere near how it is today. [00:46:56] Speaker B: No, today it's yeah. Nobody can be pleased. [00:46:59] Speaker A: No. [00:46:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:47:00] Speaker B: Everything's got to be outrage. [00:47:02] Speaker A: Yeah. This. This is a movie where genuinely. And I said this to Andy over text and I. I mean this with an asterisk. But, like, I think this movie has the perfect cast for the era in terms of what in a studio head's mind or a director's mind or a writer's mind, like, who is a star now or who is up and coming that fits the mold of Reed and, you know, sue and Johnny, where it's like, at this point, you know, the fact that Reed is the one that is, I would probably argue, is the least famous out of the four of them. [00:47:36] Speaker C: Yeah. Oh, yeah. [00:47:36] Speaker A: And honestly, I would say is probably my. I really like. I think it's. Is it Ewan? [00:47:45] Speaker B: Is that how you spent Johan Griffith? [00:47:48] Speaker A: Yeah, Johan Griffith. He. [00:47:50] Speaker B: He's Welsh. [00:47:52] Speaker A: He is so good as Reed. I genuinely like his. [00:47:56] Speaker B: Okay. [00:47:57] Speaker A: Do you not like his read? [00:47:58] Speaker B: I. I don't think it's his fault. [00:48:00] Speaker A: No. [00:48:00] Speaker B: But I don't like this read. No. I think he's a drag. [00:48:06] Speaker A: See, that's the. That's fair, though, because I think in my head, it's like, I love the fact especially. I mean, it's more in Silver Surfer too, but I think it's like the fact that anytime there is a project that could be done. [00:48:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:18] Speaker A: His head is immediately ahead on the swivel. I need to deal with this. [00:48:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:23] Speaker A: Or like, I. Yeah, I think with him, he is the prime example of. If you had a script that really just nailed it more, he would be just perfect. [00:48:36] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:48:37] Speaker B: I think he, like, he absolutely is. [00:48:38] Speaker A: Great cast, which is, I think, which is different for, like, Jessica Alba situation where I think Alba I can understand again, of the era of the time. [00:48:47] Speaker B: It makes sense as a commercial choice. [00:48:49] Speaker A: Yes. [00:48:50] Speaker B: She's terrible. [00:48:51] Speaker A: Yes. Out of the four of them, she is the worst. [00:48:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:48:54] Speaker A: And I think it's a bummer that it's like, that doesn't perturb them enough to actually give her something to work with. So, like, she literally is mainly, like, literally the film introduces. Clearly introduces the suits they will be wearing as the Fantastic Four by having her wearing the suit and she's wearing the suit, which, again, is like a zipper from, like, the neck. [00:49:16] Speaker B: Everybody's wearing it fully zipped up. [00:49:18] Speaker A: She is down, so you can clearly see her cleavage. [00:49:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:21] Speaker B: Zip down to the middle of her chest. [00:49:22] Speaker A: And it's one of those. [00:49:23] Speaker B: First time she's wearing it too. [00:49:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's just like. And it. And it gets to a point where it almost. You think someone is going to say, hubba hubba, a wolf whistle. Like it's a Tex Avery cartoon. [00:49:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:49:37] Speaker B: She's also, like, when she's first introduced in the film, she's Doom's like, assistant slash kind of girlfriend. And that's like, kind of all she is for the first 15, 20 minutes. [00:49:50] Speaker A: We'll give the movie credit. They do call her a scientist, at least in the beginning. [00:49:55] Speaker B: It's more like a personal assistant. [00:49:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Her whole thing is just. Sue, you don't know how to handle your powers, but we need you to get invisible. Please take off all your clothes off. [00:50:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:07] Speaker A: Be invisible. [00:50:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:09] Speaker A: And it's something where it's like, I, I, it's, It is. I understand at the time that that was. They were gonna do that and no one was gonna bat an eye about that. Yeah. [00:50:22] Speaker B: It was gonna be funny. [00:50:23] Speaker A: But that now watching it, it is funny in a, like, I, I cannot believe they thought this was going to work. [00:50:28] Speaker B: A good way to. [00:50:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:30] Speaker B: And display this character and. [00:50:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:32] Speaker A: And especially in a thing where it's like she is on a team with her brother. [00:50:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:37] Speaker A: And every time they do this joke, it is this hilarious thing where Johnny is just like, well, this is. I'll never forget this. He's like. He's like, well, that is going to ruin me. He's like, this is traumatic. [00:50:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:52] Speaker A: And again, like, chickless makes sense because the fucking shield, like, he is killing it on tv, on FX at the time. And also, to be honest, the way that he's built and the way that they do the Thing costume with him and the way that his voice. [00:51:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:08] Speaker B: He just is a natural. [00:51:09] Speaker A: He works for it. Yeah. He's solid as it. I do think it's not a Griffith situation where it's like, if you give him better work, it will make that suit disappear. That suit will never disappear. [00:51:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:20] Speaker A: Even when they kind of updated a little bit. And Silver Surfer is not like, it's still. He still looks like a Cheeto man. [00:51:26] Speaker B: He does. It's a little too orange. I don't know. The orange of the thing in the comics, for some reason was always one of those things that I just interpreted as like a product of it being a comic. And if it were to be translated into real life, he would be like clay brown rocks, you know, which it. [00:51:45] Speaker A: Took 20 years to finally get. [00:51:48] Speaker B: But this movie interprets it literally. He is orange. [00:51:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:52] Speaker B: Which, you know, I, I think another example of that is, like, how in the comics, Venom is Always shown with, like, blue and red highlights. It's like. It doesn't mean he's blue and red. No, no, he's black. He's just shiny and oily, and that's how it shows the iridescent stuff. [00:52:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And a lot of comics like using that black to accent it, but if your character is in a black suit. [00:52:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:13] Speaker A: Use some other colors to accent. [00:52:14] Speaker B: Yeah, Right, right, right. [00:52:15] Speaker A: And blue and blue and red looks rad on Venom. [00:52:18] Speaker B: And so, yeah, I always thought that was funny, that it was just like, nah. Yeah. This movie is just gonna take his. Take his design super literally. I mean, you know, proportions wise. They kind of make him. Try to make him look more human, I think, than the. Than his comic book design. But, yeah, just the bright orange is hilarious. [00:52:37] Speaker A: There are moments in these two films that I think have just been in the back the of my brain forever. Read Satan. Johnny, for some reason, is always stuck in my brain. Feels like out of every character in both these movies, he seems like he says Johnny more than anybody else's. [00:52:54] Speaker B: He may. [00:52:55] Speaker A: Well. Johnny, sit down. Johnny, we can't do this. Johnny, please. [00:52:58] Speaker B: He's a child. [00:52:59] Speaker A: But the second thing that's always stuck in my brain that I think is, like, it's not supposed to be funny in any way, but again, it's just how the Thing looks. The fact that the Thing does his first heroic act and people are, like, accepting him to a certain degree. His wife shows up on the bridge. She pulls the ring off and just shakes her head is like, no, I'm sorry, I can't. Throws it on the ground. And then when he tries to pick it up, his fingers are too chunky and rocky. He just. They do the rock sound when he's. [00:53:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:31] Speaker A: It'S just. [00:53:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:33] Speaker A: Trickles is doing genuinely a good job at that moment. But it's just. You look at that face. [00:53:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:38] Speaker A: Like, they thought this was the best thing. This is the best they could probably do. [00:53:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm sure it was. [00:53:46] Speaker A: And it is this, like, thing where it's like the film genuinely focuses on the characters because it has to. Because the film goes into space once and then basically is like the crux of the rest of the film is Reed trying to figure out how to cure them or fix their powers, while the rest of the team is basically trying to live. [00:54:08] Speaker B: Trying to cope. [00:54:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:09] Speaker A: Cope is like Johnny and Ben as like, basically surrogate brothers. [00:54:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:14] Speaker A: Sue and Reed, who are not together until the very end of the movie, basically reconciling to a degree and talking about their faults. [00:54:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:22] Speaker B: Well, there's, like, a history that, like, they were together in the past. [00:54:27] Speaker A: It's honestly one of the most. Again, one of the most Reed Richards things is, like, they. Sue reveals that the reason why they broke up is because sue just wanted them to move in together and read and calculate all the options. [00:54:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:54:38] Speaker B: Which I thought was, like, stressed out and overwhelmed by the variables, which is. [00:54:42] Speaker A: Just so it's one of those things where you're like, honestly, that'd be kind of a funny gag in a comic with Reed. But it is something where it's like that film. And I. I don't want to forget him, but he is probably one of the weakest aspects other than Alba. Just because Alba's weakest aspect is, of. [00:55:02] Speaker B: Course, just her acting ability. [00:55:04] Speaker A: Yes, it's the acting. It's the acting and the writing. It's definitely acting for sure. And then, like, the writing. But, like, other than her, I would say the weakest aspect of, like, the classic Fantastic Four, but all. Is Victor. [00:55:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:19] Speaker A: Now the actor, which I believe is Julian McMahon. Julian McMahon, who at the time, or maybe right after this film, is mostly known for, I think, the FX show Nip Tuck. [00:55:28] Speaker B: Right. [00:55:28] Speaker A: A lot of FX people. Now that I'm realizing. Which is a show that, like, my dad really liked when that was on top. It's also the first, I believe, popular Ryan Murphy production before he got. I believe he's a part of that. But it is like, he plays Doom and he does. I think it is a very similar situation where it's like. I think there's only so much you can do with the script. That being said, I don't know if that is like, a breed situation where it's like, if his script was written better, better, would he have been like, this is the best Doom we could have ever. [00:56:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:09] Speaker B: Like, I think it's a point. A miscasting. [00:56:12] Speaker A: I would. [00:56:13] Speaker B: And a writing issue. I don't. It's. Again, you know, I'm not gonna say Julian McMahon sucks, you know, because of this role. It's poor casting and poor writing and. [00:56:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:25] Speaker B: He's just. [00:56:27] Speaker A: Look, it's poor writing to the degree that it seems like the writers forget. [00:56:32] Speaker B: Very early on that he's not Norman Osborn. [00:56:34] Speaker A: Yeah. He's not Norman Osborne. But also he's European in some way. [00:56:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:38] Speaker A: And so, like, at one point, when he's on his. Totally not Norman Osborn, like, killing off the people in the company that are trying to push him out, where they're like, why don't you Just go back home to Latveria. Victor. They have to, like, push in the fact that he's not originally from the States. [00:56:54] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:56:55] Speaker B: And his. His Doom mask is like some honorary award from the people of Latveria. [00:57:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:01] Speaker B: It, like, has a little placard on it, but, yeah. No, I mean, Doom in this. How Doom is handled in this film is kind of the quint. Like a quintessential example of like, 2000s superhero movies. Not knowing how to ride that line of, like, do we commit to the comic book character or do we hide from the comic book character to make it more appealing to people? Because in this, yeah, Doom is. He's basically Norman Osborn. He's a billionaire scientist, corporate, you know, company man. He's suave, he's greedy. He's, you know, just kind of generically slimy. [00:57:47] Speaker A: Yeah. In the comics, it's kind of almost implied to a degree that if Reed is for most people's minds, the most. The smartest man in the world. [00:57:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:57] Speaker A: Doom is, like, the second. [00:57:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:57:59] Speaker A: He's, like, considered one of the smartest men in the universe. [00:58:02] Speaker C: Well. [00:58:03] Speaker B: And, you know, in the comics, the thing that set Doom apart was he was almost as intelligent as Reed, and he opened himself up to the world of magic and sorcery. [00:58:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:14] Speaker B: That was his edge. You know, if Reed was always gonna have the better scientific mind, Doom was gonna delve into the mystical world. And of course, it's 2005. Superhero movies are just now. [00:58:28] Speaker C: Cool. [00:58:29] Speaker B: We're not gonna go into magic shit. [00:58:31] Speaker A: Right away because again, by this point, the only Doctor Strange we have ever gotten is a knockoff. I believe a knockoff pilot that got turned into a feature with Jeffrey Combs where it's like, magicians. No, thanks. And also, yeah, it's the fact, too, that at the end of the day, like, in the comics, the Fantastic Four get powers from cosmic radiation. And Doom technically does not have any powers that come from radiation. Yeah, these are. He. Basically, his abilities are that he's smart and he has money and he has the means to find magical artifacts. [00:59:08] Speaker C: Yeah, right. [00:59:08] Speaker A: And build this tech that can withstand basically, to a degree. Which is funny to say now because of who is going to play him in the New Avengers. [00:59:18] Speaker B: Yeah, he's Iron man magic. [00:59:20] Speaker A: Iron man with magic extent. And it's like, in a shitty way to, I guess, describe it, but, like, it is like, at a certain point, if you're writing the script and you're like, oh, fuck, all five of them are on the space station. But, like, canonically, Doom Wouldn't get any powers. Yeah, I guess he should get powers. And so his powers are his body. [00:59:42] Speaker B: Becomes metallic and he gets electricity. [00:59:45] Speaker A: It's electricity and telekinesis powers. He gets Palpatine powers. [00:59:49] Speaker B: Yeah, he gets force lightning. The force and metal skin. [00:59:53] Speaker A: He doesn't, he doesn't survive long enough to see if he gets the Palpatine. [00:59:56] Speaker B: Spin or the scream. [00:59:59] Speaker A: Or the scream. [01:00:00] Speaker B: The vortex. [01:00:01] Speaker A: Yeah, but it is just like. [01:00:02] Speaker B: Well, he does get the vortex, but. [01:00:04] Speaker A: Yeah, but it is something where it's like at his hilarious point, all five of them are pretty much together up until like the 30 minute mark. And then Doom is basically by himself concocting his own little schemes up until the third act, which is basically he reveals he has a mask, a cape and haha, I'm Dr. Doom. Yeah, time to get you read. [01:00:29] Speaker B: Right. [01:00:30] Speaker A: And it's hilariously, it's the time again. It's the type of film where it's like he's constantly saying like, I'm gonna kill the Fantastic Four. And like his version of how to kill Ben is he puts Ben in Reed's reversal machine. It works. Ben becomes Ben again. And then he uses electricity powers to throw him to the side. And he goes one down, three to go. Like he doesn't even check. [01:00:53] Speaker B: Yeah, it's after literally putting holes in multiple other people with his lightning bolt powers, he doesn't bother to try and kill Ben. [01:01:01] Speaker A: Reed. Reed Reed's smartest man. Much more than Victor Reed's smartest man. [01:01:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:09] Speaker A: Ultimately to the point where it's like when it gets the finale, which again, it is just something that I miss, but I don't necessarily need at this time because it's like it doesn't really help anything, but it's just funny how the finale of this is like in a random city block, random intersection in a fucking New York. [01:01:26] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just one intersection. [01:01:27] Speaker A: So low scale, everyone is almost on the verge of looking like cosplayers fighting in the streets. [01:01:33] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:01:35] Speaker B: Well, it's honestly crazy to think too that that's, that's the scale we end on in this movie, given that the next movie, like the sequel goes for like world ending. [01:01:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:46] Speaker B: It goes straight to 60. [01:01:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:01:50] Speaker A: Because yeah, again, this movie did well enough at the time that in two years we got a sequel. And unsurprisingly, because again, as much as I will, I think to a degree defend the first film is like a. Listen, this is just so it's, it's fun in a 3 out of 5 way sure. And considering like, you know now, like if you look there, the amount of three out of five films that I think that Marvel has put out in the last few years where it's like. Yeah, but it's connected to the universe and there's so much. [01:02:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's three out of five with an asterisk of. [01:02:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:02:25] Speaker B: Oh, but I've, you know, I've. I'm expected to invest all this time in this and you're putting me through all these mid movies. [01:02:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:02:33] Speaker B: A mid movie that stands on its own in 2005. Not so bad. [01:02:37] Speaker A: Nice. I'm just like a. Okay. That's what I would. That is fine. As a man who believes that the cinemas thrive on 7 out of 10, I will happily take a 3 out of 5 from 2005 that did well enough that it gets its sequel. And you know what? It's sequel like got like nearly twice the budget that it did for the first and it didn't make it back because it basically just did the same thing. Again, like quality, quality wise. Like, again, the effects are technically better in Silver Surfer. The Silver Surfer himself, I think, looks pretty rad. [01:03:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:03:13] Speaker A: Especially when he's like. When he loses his powers and he's like that. [01:03:17] Speaker B: That like dull metal finish. [01:03:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:03:19] Speaker A: Love that. The fact that he looks still that good from 07. It does. It is funny that he looks that good in a scene where it's just, we're gonna now torture the Silver Surfer. Yeah. [01:03:31] Speaker B: He's so sad. [01:03:31] Speaker A: But it's funny to think that like. Yeah. When I was watching Rises, the Silver Surfer and just being like, fuck. Like Julia Gardner kind of just looks like in terms of the amount of effort they put into her in her steps, it seems like they really nailed it with Rise because pretty much Gardner's look in the new film looks pretty similar in a lot of ways. Yeah. [01:03:48] Speaker B: It doesn't. You don't see like 20 years of CGI advancement. [01:03:52] Speaker A: Yeah. And I would recommend again, I would. If you like the first Tim Story film, I'd recommend watching Silver Surfer. If you haven't. And if you're like most people and you go, ah, that's kind of the same but a little bit worse. It's like, you know what's funny is that's the time that's like literally, it's. [01:04:06] Speaker B: Like that's kind of how movies were. [01:04:08] Speaker A: Hellboy 1 rips Hellboy 2. Bigger budget. Honestly, a little bit worse. [01:04:13] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:04:14] Speaker A: But I still like Cold Narmy a lot. [01:04:16] Speaker B: My. My biggest bone with Rise of the Silver Surfer is. It feels like Tim Story or the writers or whoever, the producers, the studio thought, you know, people really, really liked Julian McMahon's doom. Let's make him the bad guy again. And I'm just like, what were you thinking? [01:04:37] Speaker A: I think in that what happens. I think that is even. I would even argue. There could be another argument of like, fuck, we didn't have the guts to make Galactus. Galactus. [01:04:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:04:48] Speaker B: And if so, we need a true antagonistic force because Silver Surfer is going to end up being a good guy. [01:04:54] Speaker A: Surfer is a prisoner to this cloud. [01:04:56] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's not a real. I think you could have done it even with. With Cloud Galactus. [01:05:01] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:05:02] Speaker B: You didn't need Doom. Again, I think Chrome Doom. [01:05:05] Speaker A: There was one moment when with Cloud Galactus, which again, I would argue would say they're cowards for doing that because again, with that first film, it's like, you think people weren't just going to accept a giant man. [01:05:16] Speaker B: Right. [01:05:17] Speaker A: He's just going to stomp. [01:05:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:19] Speaker A: He looks like a Cheeto. She has nothing to work with. And that guy says, flame on to become fire. You think you can't. [01:05:26] Speaker B: Not that crazy. [01:05:27] Speaker A: Yeah. You can't sell a big face in the sky that comes down. But like, at a certain point, I thought they were going to do a thing where like, you know, the. The lightning in the galactus cloud was going to make the. This the visage of classic Galactus. But no, because they're cowards. They don't do. [01:05:43] Speaker B: I think there's a scene where when Surfer is flying into the cloud to kill himself. Spoilers. I think you see there's like a subtle, like the way the light and shadow works. It kind of looks like an illuminated shape. [01:05:58] Speaker A: I thought so too. So maybe. [01:06:01] Speaker C: Yeah, but that's. [01:06:02] Speaker B: It's very. But it's very. Yeah, vague. It's not. [01:06:05] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. Again, the. The sequel to this film is very much just like. It is more of the same. And I think arguably it's a. It's a detriment. [01:06:14] Speaker B: Even shorter, right? [01:06:17] Speaker A: 10 minutes shorter. [01:06:17] Speaker B: Yeah, shorter and moves quicker. And like the finale is like the last 10 minutes of the movie. [01:06:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. It is very much like at a certain point when they bring Doom back because again, the funniest part about Silver Surfer, narratively is the US government or the military just believing that Doom is not going to just absolutely consume that. [01:06:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:06:39] Speaker B: As soon as we trust him more than we trust you, Reed Richards. [01:06:42] Speaker A: Funniest. Because you're a nerd and I'm a jock again. It's like the. The film. The main reason why I like both of these movies, both Surfer and this film, is just the fact, like, the cast, especially in that first film, I think is really trying to do the best with the script has given them, but also have, like, a decent amount of chemistry between each of them. And I think they do in that first film a lot better than the second, because in the second, it's really just like there's this. There's a lot of internal conflicts in the set or, like, a lot of infighting with the family in the second one. [01:07:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:07:15] Speaker A: That don't need to really be there. [01:07:17] Speaker B: And they don't really, like, expand the characters. They just serve to put them in turmoil. [01:07:23] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:07:23] Speaker A: Which, again, I. If there's any benefit to having a Fantastic Four in an already existing universe, is that everyone who's involved in First Steps is aware that this is probably not going to be the last time that these stories are going to be told with these characters. Like, they're signing on to be in at least three films, like, Worst Case Scenario. And so it's like, if it's. So it's like, you know, with, like, Pedro and Vanessa Kirby and just Quinn and cousin. [01:07:56] Speaker B: Evan Moss Bacharach. [01:08:00] Speaker A: Adam would put John Quincy Adams from the hit HBO series John Adams. [01:08:04] Speaker B: I didn't even remember that. He is John Quincy Adam. [01:08:06] Speaker A: Quincy Adams in that. It's every time we talk about him. [01:08:09] Speaker B: And I say, oh, you mean John Quincy Adams. [01:08:10] Speaker A: Yeah, he goes, you know, he's John Quincy Adams. Like, I do know that. But, like, they are signing on and, like, it's clear that, like, no way. Feige and company are not going to be like, Well, I think they're probably thinking of what would three Fantastic Four films look like in the span of. [01:08:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:08:27] Speaker A: And. [01:08:28] Speaker B: Well, unless all four of them beat their partners and then get arrested. [01:08:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:08:36] Speaker B: Then they don't get any more movies. Thankfully, that's never happened to a Marvel actor. Not a pivotal one, anyway. [01:08:47] Speaker A: Yeah, the Kang Dynasty will live on. [01:08:49] Speaker B: Right. But the Wong done. Wong Dynasty. [01:08:53] Speaker A: And I mean, again, I don't know, like, we were. I just said earlier, like, all, like, a decent amount of leaks that are coming out right now about Doomsday seem like they're dropping Fantastic Four. And so, like, I just can't imagine at this point, if you're a part of a Fantastic Four film, you're not going to expect, like, well, I am at least latch on to this for maybe a decade. [01:09:14] Speaker B: You're right. [01:09:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:09:15] Speaker A: And so, like. But this film, again, being an earlier. Just like the 2000s, they're probably at a certain point being like, we were told that maybe a sequel will happen. He's gonna, like, make it work, this film. And then, like, Rise of Silver Surfer, it's like, all right, we're at a sequel. Do we really have enough for a third? And then by the time the Silver Surfer ends, you're like, yeah, not really. I mean, it's like, what are you gonna do, Mole Man? [01:09:39] Speaker B: Right. [01:09:39] Speaker A: Like, Galactus is the jeweler. Yeah, the jeweler. Sorry. [01:09:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:09:44] Speaker A: You can do scrolls. Even though Silver Surfer basically has, like, a final fight, that kind of feels very super. Scroll. S. Yeah, it is this thing where it's like, again, love the simpler time of the. The era of, like, Tim Stories films. And, like, again, the thing about Tim's story, too, is, like, what's funny is, like, when you, like, Tim's story as a director is one of those people where it's like, I can't really tell you what his style is with these two. [01:10:10] Speaker B: No, he's kind of. [01:10:11] Speaker C: Well. [01:10:12] Speaker B: Or his filmography. He's the dude who made Barbershop. [01:10:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:15] Speaker B: Like, that was his bit. That and Taxi were his big movies before Fantastic Four, which is also just wild to think about that era that, like, kind of anybody could direct a superhero movie. It's just like, we got the Barbershop guy to direct. [01:10:31] Speaker A: Fantastic is an era of. It's an era against, like, superhero filmmaking where Daredevil throws in fucking Kevin Smith and someone in the theater goes, yeah, he likes comics, too. It's like, that's the Arrow. [01:10:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:10:44] Speaker A: And it's like. And. Yeah. And what. What's Tim Story up to now? The dude actually has a. He has a movie coming out in, like, a few months with Eddie Murphy. [01:10:51] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:10:51] Speaker A: Eddie Murphy and Pete Davidson and Kiki Palmer. What does it look like? It looks like a Tim Story movie. Like. Like, he literally. Because he also did, I believe, Ride Along. [01:11:00] Speaker B: Yeah, he did the Ride Along. [01:11:01] Speaker A: The man has worked consistently, and I. You know what? Good for that. [01:11:05] Speaker B: Oh, God. He did the 2021 Tom and Jerry. [01:11:09] Speaker A: Like I said, Tim Story has been working. He is a man who did the. [01:11:15] Speaker B: Shaft reboot where it's. [01:11:16] Speaker A: Yes, he did. And, boy, that is a movie that exists. I'm. I mean, again, it's great to see Richard Roundtree and Sam Jackson in the same room in that movie. But, yeah, it is. It is something where it's like, Tim, I think it's like, hey, I'm Glad he's still working. He's getting. He's getting that money. Good for him. But if you put a gun to my head and say, what are his qualities as a director? I said, he seems like a nice guy. I don't know what to tell you. He definitely has the energy of. You have made a popular film in this era. You were interested in doing a superhero film at this level. Yeah, go ahead and do it. And guess what? He did two, while others usually just did one. Raimi's three is honestly both really surprising at that era. [01:12:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:12:02] Speaker B: Well, those movies became so intertwined with him. [01:12:05] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. He is. [01:12:07] Speaker B: And his language as a filmmaker. [01:12:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:12:09] Speaker A: But so the Fantastic four films in 2005 and 2007, they happen. The first one. The first one's the success. 2007 comes out with Silver Surfer and it doesn't make its money back. [01:12:22] Speaker C: It's. [01:12:23] Speaker A: I think it also is critically received. Worse. [01:12:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:12:26] Speaker A: Basically, it's like, hey, guess what? I think superheroes are dead. They'll never come revival. And then, of course, I think literally the. The Comic Con before or after Silver Surfer comes out is when Iron man footage comes out. And then again, it's just that era which. [01:12:44] Speaker B: And again, you know, people weren't looking at Iron man and thinking, oh, this is gonna change the game. [01:12:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:50] Speaker B: You know, it was just another. Another superhero movie at that point. [01:12:55] Speaker A: But again, we. We live in an era where at this point in time, before. Before even Iron man, actually, it might have been around the same time. Like, the comic book adaptations we were getting was like Frank Miller's the Spirit. [01:13:08] Speaker B: Yeah, the Spirit Sin City a few. [01:13:10] Speaker A: Years before, which is, I. I would say is an icon at 300. [01:13:15] Speaker B: Yeah, 300 show. [01:13:17] Speaker A: Like there is very much like comic book 2000, if anything, were the era of like a comic book adaptation. Doesn't inherently need to be the capes. [01:13:26] Speaker B: Right. In the superhero situation, we can do other graphic novels. [01:13:29] Speaker A: Which of course leads into like years and years of more like Chris Evans. And comic book adaptations are hilariously. [01:13:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:13:35] Speaker A: And superhero films. Like he had a superhero film in the 2000s that I think is tied to nothing. Like adaptation wise. Push. Yeah, there you go. Like, it's like. [01:13:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't think that's an adaptation of it. [01:13:45] Speaker A: He also was an adaptation. Adaptation of the Losers. [01:13:48] Speaker B: The Losers, which is a weird movie. [01:13:49] Speaker A: Because look at that cast where it's like the leads are Jeffrey, Dean Morgan, Zoe Saldana, Idris Elba in American accent. [01:13:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:13:59] Speaker A: Chris Evans. [01:14:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:00] Speaker A: It's like the fourth or fifth build Post Fantastic Four. [01:14:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:06] Speaker A: And also at the same time is like, again, it's just like Chris Evans. [01:14:10] Speaker B: Also did Scott Pilgrim. [01:14:12] Speaker A: Chris Evans does Fantastic Four one and two, does the, does Scott Pilgrim. And then while they are doing press for Scott Pilgrim, he cannot do press because he is currently bulking up to do Captain America, the First Avenger. That is his run. There's a reason why this man. Every time they're like, oh, Cap's coming back, he's like, ah, nah. Yeah, like the man has done comic book. He's done a bunch of comic book adaptations in just the 2000s alone. So like as soon as he becomes Cap, well, guess what? You're Cap for the next decade. [01:14:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:48] Speaker A: And it's one of those situations where it's like once Iron man takes over the space and the conversation about superhero films now becomes this dirty little word that other studios will use in a way that will ultimately affect so many films post Iron man, which is shared universe or a just a franchise solely built out of a single property. [01:15:15] Speaker B: Right, right. [01:15:16] Speaker A: Because the thing though too is like when studios realized that not only was Marvel pulling out C level C tier superheroes and making them a tier, and they're just like, fuck, like they're pulling out, they're making Iron man cool. Which again is hilarious to think that like 20 years ago it was. Was like, who the is Iron Man? Like, no one would know. And so it's like, so studios are like, well, Fox is going, we've got X Men, let's turn. The X Men is a family that could just be turned into origin films and we could just make our own. Fuck Marvel, let's do our own thing. And that leads to all the way to Dark Phoenix and the New Mutants and all that, which I, if we ever cover that and oh boy, it's not going to be anytime soon, but like they basically run that into the ground. Until now Marvel has X Men and is basically like, ah, we'll do it at some point. You have like, you have Sony with the fact that they don't want to lose Spider man to Marvel. So they do something to keep the rights, which is the Amazing Spider Man. [01:16:24] Speaker B: Right. [01:16:24] Speaker A: And then they run that into the ground when they basically make, I guess the closest thing to a modern day Batman Forever or Batman and Robin with amazing Spider Man 2. [01:16:34] Speaker C: Yeah, right. [01:16:35] Speaker A: Which is just this wild ass movie that was supposed to like spin off into a Sinister Six thing and then that flops for them to a degree that they push Venom films that actually are successful. [01:16:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:16:51] Speaker A: And lead to literally the last film coming out last year, and they're now trying to make an Agent Venom movie. [01:16:59] Speaker B: Check out our episode on the Venom. [01:17:00] Speaker A: Trilogy, where Evan Dawsey shames me for not liking the Last Dance. But it's like, in the span from 2005 to 2015, the superhero landscape has changed in a way, cinema wise, that it's like, if you're going to do anything with superheroes, you got to have, I guess, a MLM like plan. This is how you're gonna make money from just this random thing over here. And the Fantastic Four as a property is one that absolutely works on its own, but at the same time, it works on its own if you do it right or if you have an idea that you think is enough to, like, captivate someone in the modern era. [01:17:50] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:17:50] Speaker A: Because the Tim Story films, there were a way to get away with the goofiness of, like, a Cheeto movie, man. Pretending to be the thing saying it's clobbering time or just how Doom looks, or the fact that, you know, sue is there. [01:18:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:18:04] Speaker A: They have to really sell to the audience that there is an angle to a new version of the Fantastic Four that probably feels dark and grounded, maybe a little gritty, because at the same time that Marvel is doing a cinematic universe, there's a little film that comes out in 2013 that also changes superhero films, arguably for the worse when time goes on. And that is man of Steel. [01:18:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:18:32] Speaker A: Snyder has now put his own print on comic books and more so than one off adaptations. [01:18:40] Speaker B: Right. [01:18:40] Speaker A: And so now studios are in this weird place where they're almost trying to. To do man of Steel and Iron. [01:18:49] Speaker B: Man at the same time. [01:18:51] Speaker A: At the same time. Which are vastly. [01:18:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:18:54] Speaker B: Or doing Zack Snyder and Avengers in one breath. [01:19:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:19:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. And so now this is where it is. The landscape is there. And so at the time that all of this is happening, there's a little film that comes out in the early 2010s that is a surprise hit for Fox called Chronicle, which is directed by Josh Trank and is written by a man who will never have any kind of controversy surrounding him. From a family that's never had any controversy surrounding them, Max Landis. And this film was a surprise hit. I loved it when I first saw it. [01:19:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:19:33] Speaker B: I haven't seen it since then, but I really liked it at the time. [01:19:36] Speaker A: But it's a. At least a solid six, I would hope. [01:19:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:19:39] Speaker A: But it has basically, you know, this energy of, like, in an era where Paranormal Activity is still going super Strong and superhero films and just trying to find an angle that latches on to people really works. Trank and Landis have this film that is just a found footage superhero, super villain kind of origin story. To be honest, it's got more in line with Unbreakable than it does. [01:20:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:20:06] Speaker B: It's not like comic booky. [01:20:08] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:20:09] Speaker A: And it's kind of this energy where it's like tranq shows potential in that film. They're like, well, this guy can handle superhero films on the low budget side. [01:20:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:20:20] Speaker A: Could he create an angle that works well with modern day superheroes? Maybe it's maybe the first family who know Marvel's first family. Now we are here for final film in the trilogy which is of course fan for Stick. [01:20:37] Speaker B: Right. [01:20:38] Speaker A: A film that is. This is a film that when we were talking about doing this trilogy, that was the one that like when Andy. [01:20:48] Speaker B: Proposed, that was your hold up. [01:20:50] Speaker A: That was. No, that was the one where I went, God, this is going to just. I. You could genuinely spend an hour alone talking about how fucking insane it was to be a comic book fan. [01:21:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:21:02] Speaker A: At a time time where this movie was coming out. And this was again to show how different of a landscape it was in. In digitally compared to the 2000s. [01:21:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:21:13] Speaker A: This movie basically got to a point where Trank had this specific idea where he wanted to do the Fantastic Four and to make it grounded and gritty and probably dark like a Man of Steel type A Snyder type film. He wanted to really focus on the body horror aspects of the cosmic radiation affecting the First Family. [01:21:35] Speaker B: Right. [01:21:35] Speaker A: And being like used as military experiments that could be become soldiers. And how horrifying it could be to like have your body change in a way where you can't control it. [01:21:45] Speaker B: Right. [01:21:46] Speaker A: Let alone can change in a way where no one can help you with it. This angle that again, I think if it was, you know, six issues or maybe 10 issues, like. Yeah, it's like a. Like someone running a one off run. That would be really cool as a film that is supposed to possibly become a maybe a trilogy of films or just like whatever the fuck Fox wanted to do with that. It unfortunately isn't what Fox is kind of looking for. And so at the process of all these things, you know, they are fighting over, I think the script, what they want. [01:22:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:22:23] Speaker A: I mean Tranq goes through such a roller coaster ride. It seems like as a director he goes from chronicle to fan for stick. The process of fan for stick. I believe at one point when Lucasfilm was trying to figure out, can we Do Star wars movies that aren't episodes. At one point, they were going to make a Josh Trank directed Boba Fett film initially. [01:22:53] Speaker B: Right. [01:22:53] Speaker A: And then the process of fan forced it going the way that it does, it gets scrapped. [01:22:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:23:00] Speaker A: In a way that is like, by the time Van Forster goes in production to how it ends, it is this roller coaster ride of leaks, rumors, infighting, that apparently, like, there was this thing where like, it was. No, like the. Miles Teller was just like constantly fighting with Tranq. The studios are just down his throat about how to handle this and it. [01:23:22] Speaker B: Leads to too well, I mean, before even production. The other main writer on the film, Jeremy Slater. [01:23:31] Speaker A: Yes. [01:23:32] Speaker B: He and Tranq had completely like, opposite views of how they wanted to make a Fantastic Four movie. Because Tranq, coming from Chronicle, obviously wanted darker. He was, you know, feeling the vibes of like the Christopher Nolan Batman movies. He was taking inspiration from Cronenberg movies. He wanted to do, like you said, this really gritty kind of horrific thing. And again, also, by his own admission, not a comic book guy. Like, didn't really love superheroes as a. [01:24:04] Speaker A: Concept, which, yeah, at the time it seemed like it's perfect in a sense. [01:24:08] Speaker B: That the guy who doesn't like superheroes made Chronicle. [01:24:11] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, because that's a film that is like, mainly focused on. Yeah, the powers are cool. But how does it affect. How does it affect people that are dealing with trauma daily or just like, you know, angry inside and don't know how to convey that and just like. [01:24:26] Speaker B: But when your co writer is like, hey, we should make this more like the Avengers and make it fun and bombastic and cool superhero stuff. Like, you're. [01:24:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:24:36] Speaker B: You're pulling in two different directions. [01:24:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Two different directions from the jump. At a time where it's like Fox at this moment is like probably running the high of First Class and Days of Future Past and is a knee deep and possibly figuring out what will ultimately become Apocalypse. [01:24:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:24:54] Speaker A: Yeah. To have all that happened, Simon Kinberg, who is a producer on both those franchises and ultimately end up doing Dark Phoenix. He is a part of this film. And I think it's like, yeah, it's very clear that, yeah, they picked someone who is like, oh, this could give him. Give us a Snyder esque tone. And then ultimately he's like, oh, this is a little. This is not what we want. Yeah, we put too many chips on this guy. And so it leads to this infighting and also this drama that gets released into the public in some way, shape or form about just like, tranq lashing out. And almost like, I think he destroyed either the Airbnb or wherever he was living at the time they were shooting Van Forsnick. And it gets to a point where the film. I think it's pushed back a little bit. It gets out in 2015, and at the time that the film comes out, and I believe late July, early August, we get a tweet from Josh. [01:25:49] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [01:25:50] Speaker A: August 6, 2015 at 6:43pm we get from the director of Fant Forstic. A year ago, I had a fantastic version of this and it would have received great reviews. You'll probably never see it. That's reality, though. [01:26:07] Speaker B: That was the day before the film released. [01:26:11] Speaker A: It's insane. Even Amazing Spider Man 2 didn't have shit like this. X Men Origins, Wolverine, I think, of course, had the. The shitty FX version get pirated and leaked out into the world. Yeah, we have. We never, I think, had a fucking director a day before the release. Just be like, get ready, folks. This is going to be a real sinker. And I'm a part of that. [01:26:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:26:37] Speaker A: And I can't fix it. [01:26:38] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:26:39] Speaker A: Like, it is. It was enough to get me, honestly in the theater, even though I had no hope. [01:26:46] Speaker B: Right. [01:26:47] Speaker A: Like, I saw this movie for free because I think some, like, AMC points thing with my brother and he had to constantly look at me and go, logan, you are sighing too hard. You are getting too annoyed and angry with this movie. You need to calm down. And I'm like, the thing gets his catchphrase from his brother beating him. [01:27:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:27:12] Speaker B: His abusive older brother. [01:27:13] Speaker A: And my brother's going, shh. We'll talk about it later. And again, my brother is nine years younger than me, so he's like, hey, yeah, right. He's like, I kind of understand why you're mad, but listen, we weren't expecting anything from this. And what we get is a film that I think on a rewatch. Again, earlier in the episode, I said that both 94F4 and Fan Forstic have this energy of, like, if you watch it with friends, it is fun in its own way, but for very different reasons. Fant4stick's reason is that when I watch this movie, I watched it with Adam. Adam had never seen this movie. Adam had seen clips. Of course there is. I. I gotta say, it's pretty fantastic. [01:27:54] Speaker B: Right. [01:27:54] Speaker A: The most iconic clip of the movie. Yes. Which has now been memed to death. Even more now that, you know, Marvel Rivals is a thing. And has Mr. Fantastic. I've now seen, like, Gary's Mod esque of that. Mr. Fantastic doing that, too. That clip will never die. It'll follow Miles Teller until he's old age. But when we were watching this movie, Adam at one point turns to me. I think we're like 20 minutes in, maybe 30 minutes in. And he goes, what's crazy is that I do not hate this. It is not good. Yeah, but it's not not interesting. Like, it's not boring. Like, it's interesting in terms of what Tranq is trying to do in trying to make this more grounded, gritty. There is an angle here with the fact that the film commits to almost the ultimate Fantastic Four version of, like, instead of it being cosmic radiation from space, it's through the negative zone. [01:28:48] Speaker C: Right. [01:28:49] Speaker A: And so it's like doing the negative zones. An interesting angle, the way they're doing bands. Like, he's like, there's something about this that is like, I can't hate this film. At concept. [01:28:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:28:58] Speaker B: It's not bafflingly bad for most of the film. [01:29:02] Speaker A: And I looked at him and I said, I'm glad you said that. But I'm gonna let you know, because I know that you have seen enough movies in your lifetime that you are going to catch this. There is a certain point in this movie where you are going to know internally that you are watching a completely different film. And there is a good chance you are going to fucking hate everything you see from this point forward. And Adam went, I think you are misconstrued. Like, my actual overestimating what I'm doing. And Andy, I'm not fucking kidding you. When this movie puts one Year later on the screen, his eyes widen and he goes, this is absolute dog shit. [01:29:46] Speaker B: This is horrible. That was his trigger. [01:29:48] Speaker A: Because it, like, as soon as it goes in for the one year later, it's shot differently. [01:29:52] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:29:53] Speaker A: The writing is different. Everything about the film feels different. Like, it almost. Because I basically said at a certain point in this movie, you can tell when it becomes reshoots. [01:30:04] Speaker B: Yeah, reshoots. [01:30:05] Speaker A: Final draft. Kamara's wig, K. Mars wig. The tone, like, everything. When they start calling him Doom rather than Domashev. Because originally he was supposed to be Victor Domashev. [01:30:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:30:17] Speaker A: And he was supposed to be a hacker. [01:30:19] Speaker B: Right. [01:30:19] Speaker A: And they hated that. So in the post, I think a lot of Tim Blake Nelson's lines are basically him saying Dr. Doom or Victor Von Doom. [01:30:27] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:30:28] Speaker A: This movie is basically. Reed and Ben are friends since they were kids. Reed believes that he can find a way to teleport people he built a. [01:30:38] Speaker B: Teleporter as a kid. [01:30:40] Speaker A: He built a teleporter as a kid. His father, played by Tim Heidecker, gets mad at him that he builds a teleporter. His school teacher is Dan Castellaneta, AKA Homer fucking Simpson. Which I did not know that for some reason I forgot entirely. Adam had to point that out and I lost my shit. It is a film where Ben and Reed. Ben comes from, like, an abusive household. Reed is just a normal kid who's just got a super, super human brain. Yeah. And he builds a teleporter in his garage. They become best friends. Cut to them in, like, their 20s, they make the pellet, they make it again. And the school goes, you're insane. You're weird. We don't trust you. Even though it works. [01:31:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:31:21] Speaker B: That's the funniest part, is, like, it works and people watch it work and are just like, we want science, not a magic trick. [01:31:28] Speaker A: Yeah. And then Franklin. Is it Franklin Richards. Is that the father? Yeah, Franklin Richards, played by. [01:31:37] Speaker B: Oh, God, what's his name? Red. Reg. Cathy. [01:31:41] Speaker A: Yeah. Red, Late, great actor who's, I think, the best actor in this movie and has nothing to do. [01:31:47] Speaker B: But at least Franklin Storm, not Richard. [01:31:50] Speaker A: Thank you. Because Richards is of course, sue and Reed's kid. [01:31:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:31:54] Speaker A: But Franklin Storm approaches them and goes, hey, guess what? We've actually built something like this. We just need you to come on board. And then so the team ends up becoming Sue Reed. Ben's not a part of the team because in this version, he's not a space. He's not an astronaut. He has nothing to do with space. [01:32:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:32:11] Speaker B: So he's not there. [01:32:12] Speaker A: He's a junkyard kid. [01:32:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:32:15] Speaker A: And then Johnny gets pulled in because Johnny is basically super smart, but doesn't apply himself. He just likes to do Fast and Furious races. [01:32:23] Speaker B: Right. [01:32:23] Speaker A: And Dr. Doom, played by Toby Kevil, who is now called. He's called Victor Von Doom, but he originally wasn't. [01:32:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:32:31] Speaker A: He's a hacker who hates capitalism. He hates society. [01:32:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:32:36] Speaker A: If it was 2010, if it was post Joker, he would probably say more things about society than he already does. [01:32:43] Speaker C: Yeah, he's. [01:32:44] Speaker B: He's very lightly, like 4chan coded cell. [01:32:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:32:48] Speaker A: He's very much into sue, but in that incelly way where it's, like, uncomfortable. [01:32:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:32:53] Speaker A: And she rejected me. They build a machine together, Tim. Blake Nelson is a part of the military and goes, oh, that's great. You guys did such a good job building this machine. [01:33:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:33:03] Speaker A: Can't wait for NASA to take this Project over. I'm just telling you right now that NASA's taking this project. They all get pissed. Then they get pissed and get drunk, right? And then they go it. Let's just go into the. [01:33:17] Speaker B: Why don't we just use the machine? Let's use the machine before NASA does. [01:33:20] Speaker A: And instead of asking sue to come with us, you know who'd be great to come to the Negative Zone? My boy Ben. [01:33:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:33:27] Speaker A: And then he brings Ben in, they. [01:33:29] Speaker B: Go, that's such a weird choice just to be like, yeah, no girls allowed to the out of this part. Let's invite fight, my buddy from back home. [01:33:37] Speaker A: So Victor Von Doom, Johnny Reed and Ben all go to the Negative Zone, which is where the teleporter has been constantly taking them. They go there, they. They do exactly what they want to do and they put an American flag down. Because of course, why not usa Woo. Nothing ever done wrong. Victor on the other hand, can't follow rules. Find some green goop gets involved, gets goes bad. They get horribly disfigured on the way back. [01:34:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:34:06] Speaker A: And sue, since she's the only one in the office, I guess also gets the radiation. [01:34:11] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't really remember how that happens exactly. [01:34:15] Speaker A: She's the one that brings him back, Right. She. [01:34:17] Speaker B: She sees that they've gone and goes to the control room. [01:34:20] Speaker A: The glass breaks, she gets pushed back. [01:34:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:24] Speaker A: Reed wakes up and can't move his arms. He thinks Ben's under a bunch of rubble. But it's actually the rubble is Ben. [01:34:32] Speaker B: The rubble is Ben. [01:34:33] Speaker A: Which I will say out of the three of these movies. Yes. I will give the film props. It's the best looking thing technically. [01:34:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:34:40] Speaker B: It's a good looking thing. They just should have put the pants back on. [01:34:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Because he has a weird like fupa. [01:34:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:34:47] Speaker B: And then he also has a weird little like man rock butt. [01:34:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:34:52] Speaker B: Just cover him up a little concave. [01:34:54] Speaker A: Rock ass for some reason. Yeah. [01:34:57] Speaker B: At least give the man some cake. [01:34:58] Speaker A: I do think it makes perfect sense. Especially what First Steps is kind of also doing it where it's like a full CGI thing. It makes the most sense. [01:35:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:35:07] Speaker A: I clearly first steps found out. You know what makes it better? Putting a sweater on him. [01:35:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:35:12] Speaker A: Which I agree. A sweater on the thing is just top. [01:35:15] Speaker B: Yeah, give it a little zip. [01:35:17] Speaker A: Zip. Yeah. Nice cousin reference there. [01:35:21] Speaker B: I love the bear. [01:35:22] Speaker A: Yeah, you do love the bear. Name five bears for me. Oh God. [01:35:27] Speaker B: Ben. Grim. [01:35:28] Speaker A: Shit. No. Johnny gets fire powers. Sue gets invisibility powers. Ben is like, please, Reed, help me. But Reed can't control his extendability, so he just slides through a vent and leaves the military base. [01:35:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:35:43] Speaker A: And Tim Blake Nelson goes. Your friend left you because he's a cow, Howard. [01:35:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:35:47] Speaker A: I'll never come back for you. But if you become. If you work for me, I'll help you. [01:35:51] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:35:52] Speaker A: And then hard cut to black. One year later, we cut back in the film. It feels like we've cut to a different film entirely. [01:36:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:36:02] Speaker A: Ben is a. Is like a black ops operative who has killed at least 40 people. [01:36:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:36:07] Speaker B: I think they say I got a. 43 kills on his record. 43 confirmed kills. [01:36:12] Speaker A: And you could. He couldn't be sadder in his life. [01:36:15] Speaker B: He just sits in his prison cell. He, like, sits in his little containment cell doing nothing until he's called out to kill more insurgents in the Middle East. [01:36:24] Speaker A: Johnny, again, we haven't even really said it, but Johnny is played by Michael B. Jordan, who was in Chronicle. So initially, at least for me, when I heard that, you know the guy from Chronicles making Fantastic Four. Oh, shit, that could be cool. Michael B. Jordan's back. [01:36:38] Speaker C: Oh, cool. [01:36:39] Speaker A: He's such a good actor. Let's do it. Johnny couldn't give half a. About what's going on around him. He now likes to work for the Army. Kate Mara clearly can tell. You can tell when they shot initially because she had her hair dyed. And then when the reshoots happen. Because she has a clear wig. Yeah, not actually like a clear. [01:37:02] Speaker B: No, an obvious. [01:37:03] Speaker A: Clearly an obvious. [01:37:04] Speaker B: An invisible Woman wig. A clear wig, transparent. [01:37:07] Speaker A: And. And then Reed is in Mexico pretending to be Mexican and. [01:37:13] Speaker C: Yes. [01:37:14] Speaker A: Or. Yeah, he's even like, is it Mexico? I don't even remember where they say he's at. [01:37:18] Speaker B: I think it's Mexico. [01:37:20] Speaker A: But he. [01:37:22] Speaker B: No, I'm pretty sure it is Mexico because the scenes there have the yellow piss filter that, like, every movie at that time was using. Whenever a scene was supposed to take. [01:37:31] Speaker A: Place in Mexico, you know, any. Any shot of the Middle east, it has to have someone chanting in the background, like, the land that no one's ever been to. No one lives there. Yeah. Reed does probably the most horrifying thing any Reed Richards has done in any of the films, which is deform his, like, face. [01:37:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:37:50] Speaker B: He basically does a Mission Impossible mask gag, but without the mask. [01:37:54] Speaker A: And it's. It's so funny because at that time, too, when Fan Force Stick was coming out clearly, they did work on Miles Teller's face for the poster because it. [01:38:04] Speaker B: Looks like he's got so airbrushed it's weird Airbrush. His nose looks bigger. [01:38:08] Speaker A: Big nose. Huge. Like, and I'm not saying like big in terms of like, his nostrils are huge. [01:38:14] Speaker B: They made the, like the bridge of his nose. [01:38:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:38:17] Speaker A: Like, you think of wide nose function. [01:38:20] Speaker B: Like, it's like a shovel nose. [01:38:21] Speaker A: Like in a me maker. Like what A wide bridge nose. That's kind of what it looked like. [01:38:26] Speaker B: It's a little bit squidwardy. [01:38:27] Speaker A: It didn't look like him compared to Kate Mara and Michael B. Jordan. And of course, Ben doesn't look like Jamie Bell because Ben looks like the thing. [01:38:35] Speaker B: Can you imagine if, like, in this pursuit of like ultra realism or whatever Josh Trank wanted, they made the thing like, actually look like Jamie Bell made of rocks. [01:38:45] Speaker A: I gotta say, as someone who would probably say out of all these actors is it probably goes. I like, of course, like Michael the most. And then probably Jamie, who likes as actors. As actors. Like, I think Jamie Bell's a really good actor and I like him a lot. It is a bummer that out of the four of them, like, he feels like he has the least amount to do. Until you look at sue, which is like a classic Fantastic Four film situation. [01:39:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:39:10] Speaker A: Name a Fantastic Four film as right now that has good sue. And I don't think there's really much but like Jamie Bell as is Ben is like also the first time where they don't force him to be like super gravelly. Like, he has a gravel to it, but it's not like chickless. [01:39:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:39:28] Speaker B: It's not over the top. [01:39:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it's very much like. It's very much pitched. [01:39:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:39:32] Speaker A: He's like shickless. [01:39:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:39:33] Speaker B: It just kind of sounds like his voice pitch down. [01:39:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Chickless sounds like he's putting on it. Jamie Bell just sounds like they said, just say it in the mic and we'll just pitch it. [01:39:44] Speaker C: Yeah, we'll. [01:39:45] Speaker A: We'll put some. We'll put some rocks in like a dryer and we'll take some fully and then we'll just put that. [01:39:49] Speaker B: Which is a, you know, a stepping stone toward first steps in which I don't even think they change Evan Moff's back rack's voice at all. [01:39:58] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited. [01:40:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:40:01] Speaker A: Which is so funny too. It's like we get the most accurate looking thing we've ever had in a film. [01:40:05] Speaker B: The least. Least voice adjustments. [01:40:06] Speaker A: And you know what? I love it. They're just using his, like, inherent gravel in his voice. [01:40:13] Speaker B: Yeah, they. They haven't. Not to get ahead of ourselves. But they haven't revealed the line, it's clobbering time, have they? [01:40:21] Speaker A: For First Steps, the most recent trailer has Johnny Go. Is it clobbering time? [01:40:28] Speaker B: Oh, but we don't hear. [01:40:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like. So he will say. [01:40:32] Speaker B: He'll say it. [01:40:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:40:33] Speaker A: And I hope. I hope he. No, I'm gonna stop it. I'm just gonna say right there. I was gonna say he's gonna hit Galactus in the crotch and say it's clock red. That's a Tim Story move. I can't. Chiclist would have done that. [01:40:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:40:46] Speaker B: And it would have made crunching rock sounds in recent. [01:40:51] Speaker A: It's a. Gosh, what's his name? Who's playing Galactus in First Steps. [01:40:55] Speaker B: Oh, my. [01:40:57] Speaker A: He's the perfect. The perfect choice for Galactus. [01:41:00] Speaker B: Honestly, I can't remember that guy's name. [01:41:01] Speaker A: I was gonna say Reese Darby. That is not him at all. Different person. [01:41:09] Speaker B: But like, he's the guy from the witch. [01:41:11] Speaker A: Yeah. The dad from the witch. [01:41:12] Speaker B: Who's got Ralph Innocent. Ralph Innocent or Raf Innocent. [01:41:16] Speaker A: Yeah. But like, it just. It is the hilarious how the other two films with 94, Fantastic Four, like, Doom is a prominent part entirely. [01:41:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:41:32] Speaker A: In that movie, like, I mean, the inciting. Basically what up in Space is, is because Doom takes their jewel or hires the jeweler to take the diamond. That's supposed to help with calculations or something. And then they go into space and it fucks up and they're supposed to die. But they don't. [01:41:49] Speaker B: Right. [01:41:50] Speaker A: In the Tim Story films, Doom is, you know, barely talking to the team mid second act, but at least they're giving him stuff to do. [01:41:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:42:00] Speaker A: Fit forstick. Who I would argue probably has the most talented actor of the three at least. [01:42:08] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [01:42:09] Speaker A: Biased wise. Because again, I. We've talked about this man before because he was Koba in Dawn of the Planet. [01:42:15] Speaker C: Yes. [01:42:16] Speaker B: Toby, Kevin was great. [01:42:16] Speaker A: He rules in that movie. And it's no doubt that he got this role because again, he showed off that he can make a monkey. One of the most sinister and also like empathetic villains. He's a good choice for like, if you want a villain to feel empathetic, clearly that's not the case. They give him. But like, once Doom falls into the green goop, he is gone until I think 15 before the credits. [01:42:40] Speaker B: Is it really that long? [01:42:41] Speaker A: It's like. It is like he barely shows up. [01:42:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:42:44] Speaker A: And then they find him, he comes back, he blows up people's heads with his mind. [01:42:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:42:50] Speaker B: He comes back as this like, you know, cronenbergian kind of robot man. [01:42:57] Speaker A: Like he has a see through kind of transparent mask. [01:43:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:43:02] Speaker B: His skin, it's not clear if it's a mask or his skin or like if that's all like, I think he's like totally changed biologically. [01:43:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:43:10] Speaker B: It's like the green into like this weird mechanic organic, mechanical fusion. [01:43:15] Speaker A: It melts his suit it into his skin and then I think the green goop. [01:43:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:43:20] Speaker A: Transforms him even more because the suit is the. Hilariously, the doom look is supposed to be mainly like his body is just like his up suit that they use. Like the space suit they use. [01:43:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:43:32] Speaker A: And then he gets a green cloak because. Why not? [01:43:34] Speaker B: Because. [01:43:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:43:35] Speaker A: It's not even his favorite color. [01:43:36] Speaker C: No. [01:43:37] Speaker A: But whatever. [01:43:37] Speaker B: It's because of the. The green goop turned his cloak green. [01:43:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:43:41] Speaker A: So he blows up everyone one's brains. [01:43:44] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:43:46] Speaker B: He has mind blowing powers which is. [01:43:48] Speaker A: Like, oh, I can't wait for stretchy man to really deal with that. But you get it by this point too. Like. Yeah, they clearly in reshoot reshoot land were like, Ah, Mr. Fantastic's just like not doing a lot of cool stuff elastic wise. [01:44:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:44:03] Speaker A: Let's change his face so he looks like a different ethnicity, I guess. And also, and also when the black ops team tries to come and take him, he's just gonna punch people from far away. [01:44:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:44:14] Speaker A: Basically taking from 94 fantastic. If you're gonna do something with Fantastic, you have to make sure he's not. [01:44:20] Speaker B: He can just sniper punches. [01:44:23] Speaker A: At least in the Tim Story film. Like even in Silver Surfer, like they do the thing with like the texting thumbs and like. But it's like they're actually thinking about how fucking silly it would be to have these people powers. And then this movie, it's like, I think the most, I guess, quote unquote iconic stretchy arm thing that he does is when he has to jump over a rail and he just like uses his big old arm. He. Mr. Fantast, Miles Teller is just here. Kate Bara just here. [01:44:54] Speaker B: Yeah, pretty much everybody's just. They're not really getting to do anything. [01:44:58] Speaker A: If you want to have some fun. And I told Adam to do this too if he's curious. If you want to have some fun, watch all of them on press junkets together because unsurprisingly, I know you might want to sit down for this. Josh Trank is not involved in the press for this movie. And it seems like Miles is just constantly shitting about how stupid this movie is. [01:45:16] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:45:17] Speaker A: And Michael and Kate and James, like, they all seem uncomfortable, but also laughing because they kind of agree. [01:45:22] Speaker B: Yeah, it kind of has some of the same energy as the. The press for the final season of Game of Thrones where you can just see all the actors are like, no, this ain't what people want. But. [01:45:35] Speaker A: But we got it. We. We got a contract. And it's like almost like they're all being like, we, we are technically still in contract, but we do not want to do another one. Yeah, it was so funny too. Is that this movie, you know, they kill the Doom kills Franklin, they go back into the Negative Zone, they have a fight where they're supposed to team up together. Because again, another fucking thing about this movie. And again, we could talk. This whole episode could just be about how fucking ridiculous this movie is of the Fantastic Four. The one thing that I think works the best in the Tim Story films and honestly with, you know, at least I will give The Corman produced 94 film credit, is that the Fantastic Four is a family of found family. They work best. They should work best when they are together in some way, shape or form where they're bouncing off of one another in some way, shape or form. Fant4stick is a film where all four of these are not in the same room until the final act. [01:46:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:46:37] Speaker A: They are in the room in the beginning when they don't have powers. But when they have powers, it's just Johnny and Sue, Reed and Ben. Ben by himself, sue by herself. [01:46:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:46:48] Speaker A: There's Johnny and Franklin. [01:46:50] Speaker B: Absolutely no sense of unity. [01:46:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Where it's like Franklin's whole thing is like, hey, Johnny, you don't have to use your powers for the government. And it's like the government's kind of rad. I can do fun things like shoot rockets. [01:47:03] Speaker B: And it's like nobody besides, nobody besides Reed even like knows Ben by the end of this movie. Like, other than sue knows him because he's a government agent and she also works for the government. [01:47:16] Speaker A: Because again with the earlier stuff, it is like Ben is a pilot and sometimes works for NASA. Works like. I mean, Chickless is on the team because he is flown spaceships before, technically. [01:47:28] Speaker B: Oh, right, right, right. [01:47:29] Speaker A: He's flown. He's flown before. And like in the 94 film, it's also implied that like, yeah, he's more of a job, but he actually has done stuff like this before. He's a. He's a secret smart man to a degree, but no Reed. [01:47:42] Speaker B: Right. [01:47:43] Speaker A: And in this it's just like Ben is clearly showing with how, like, that tranq is not a huge fan of this character. Like, at least not like, under, like, does. [01:47:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:47:53] Speaker A: Where it's just like, yes, he does become a goofy rock man that goes. It's clobbering time. But he's also not an idiot. [01:48:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:48:00] Speaker B: I mean, he's kind of the pathos of the team and other iterations. [01:48:05] Speaker A: And when you put it in the negative zone and you're like, fuck, we don't need a pilot to fly us in the negative zone. How do we get Ben involved? And like, oh, they just get drunk and they're just like. [01:48:14] Speaker B: He's like, oh, my buddy should join. [01:48:16] Speaker A: Let's. Yeah, three dudes is gay. Let's have four. That's the best way. Four is fantastic. It's just like. [01:48:23] Speaker B: Say that again. [01:48:23] Speaker A: There you go, guys. I have a name. Also, that scene is fucking funny because it has this moment where it's like, how about her big brain? Or like. Or, oh, it's Reed and the three in his neurons. Or her neurons. [01:48:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:48:40] Speaker A: And then, like, you have Johnny, which, again, Johnny is very antagonistic, like a little brother to Ben. And in this, they have Michael B. Jordan, who is, I think talked to Ben once or twice in this movie. [01:48:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:48:52] Speaker A: Goes. How about Johnny's three? Like these three people in the thing nobody wanted. [01:48:59] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [01:48:59] Speaker A: It's like this forced, like. [01:49:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:49:02] Speaker B: They had no rapport prior to that scene. [01:49:05] Speaker A: Everyone's there. There's no rapport. The score is just. It just is like, the movie, like, has a blue beam in the sky because it's the 2010s and it's a superhero movie. [01:49:16] Speaker B: Got to. [01:49:16] Speaker A: It's in the Pacific Northwest. [01:49:19] Speaker B: Sure. [01:49:19] Speaker A: I don't remember. It looks like the Pacific Northwest the way they're shooting. Supposed to. Maybe they're shooting in Canada. I don't fucking know. But it just is like, once that cut to one year later happens in the initial shock of, oh, everything I kind of liked or was kind of interested with what tranq was doing is now flushed down the toilet. Now. This is the most generic, basic I've ever seen in my life. [01:49:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:49:44] Speaker A: And also some of the worst I've seen in a long time. It very much is one. If you watch this movie now, you're. Honestly, if you've ever wanted to be like, I don't know if I'll ever. Like Quantumania or Love and Thunder again. [01:49:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:49:58] Speaker A: Watch Fan for Stick. You'll probably appreciate those movies a little bit more. [01:50:02] Speaker B: Something. [01:50:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:50:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's like this whole. Whole Thing where it's like, this movie just feels like something. Feels like the thing nobody wanted. It's like this weird thing where it's like there was an idea the studio didn't want it. Trank really had no control because, again, Trink Trank had a video where he basically had, like. He got popular online, I think, originally by being the guy that created the video where, like, two guys have a lightsaber that we get pulled out like a house party. Have you ever seen this video? [01:50:32] Speaker B: I think that's Tranq, really. [01:50:34] Speaker A: And he did that himself. And then I think, you know, to meet, like, met Landis, and they led it to Chronicle. Then Chronicle leads into Fan Forestic, and now Tranq's the only thing Trank has done since Fan Forestic is that Tom Hardy Capone film nobody saw. There's just like, yeah, it just. There's so much. Very similarly to 94, Fantastic Four. There's a lot surrounding this movie that is just genuinely interesting and just wild to think of. Like, really is. A lot of this is just circumstantial to how studios thought people wanted to see these characters in the 2010s. [01:51:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:51:12] Speaker A: Where it's like, they really were like, we want our cake and eat it too. Where it's like, we want a film that captures the connected universe of the MCU in a way, and how fun the MCU is while also being able to be so grounded. They could do another 9 11, like man of Steel does. [01:51:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:51:29] Speaker A: And it balances well. And the thing is, is they are two fucking different things on the spectrum. You need to pick one or the other. [01:51:37] Speaker B: Right? Yeah. [01:51:38] Speaker A: Even X Men isn't like that. [01:51:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:51:40] Speaker A: X Men does have some shit, Especially Apocalypse Onward, where it's like, what the fuck are you trying to do here? But like, at least in that, they're still, like, they're using color. They have goofy moments. Quicksilver is fun. Like, it's all these things where it's like, even X Men doesn't feel like it is being held down to be like, you got to do the man of Steel Snyder thing. Like, and there is probably. You could probably argue, too, that if this film had been, like, in production during Batman v Superman, and people. And they like, Fox saw the reception to that movie. Yeah, that movie. [01:52:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:52:14] Speaker A: That movie made nearly a billion dollars. Yes. But the critical reception was pretty obvious. [01:52:20] Speaker B: Right. [01:52:21] Speaker A: And then, like, that maybe could have pushed them to be like, all right, never mind. Just do more like mcu. But like, yeah, since this movie was, I think, put in production in like 2014. 2013. 24. Yeah. [01:52:32] Speaker B: 2013. Yeah. [01:52:34] Speaker A: Like, it is basically like, oh, look, man of Steel. People like that and made money. Like, well, it's. [01:52:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:52:41] Speaker B: And it's also just a fundamental, like, disagreement about what kind of movie we're making. I mean, obviously, trank, you know, I, I trank, I'm sure is valid in some ways in feeling like, okay, I could have made something really interesting if not for the studio. I don't know that I totally believe him that, like, his pure version of the movie would have been good. [01:53:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:53:06] Speaker B: Because I do get the sense from, like, how he talked about the film and the source material, like, in production, that he didn't really want to make a superhero movie. He was trying to retro fit a movie he wanted to make into a superhero film because somebody was going to pay him to make a superhero film. [01:53:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:53:26] Speaker B: And so it's, you know, it's kind of a lesson and obviously, you know, the dangers of studio meddling, but also like real monkeys making the movie you want to make. Yeah, don't, don't, you know, let's not try and retrofit a movie into being something that it was never meant to be. [01:53:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it is, it is very much about, you know, committing and execution and understanding the audience or your. [01:53:52] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:53:52] Speaker A: Because again, you can understand which audience this is going to and still surprise them by going a different avenue. [01:53:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:53:59] Speaker A: But, yeah, it is just very clear that even if we got what Trank wanted, it was gonna piss people off. [01:54:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:54:08] Speaker A: Because, yeah, it's. At the end of the day, you have someone who doesn't give a shit about the, the comic. And you know what, that's fine. [01:54:15] Speaker B: Sure. [01:54:16] Speaker A: But that also means if you are like, if you don't care enough that you're just like, I don't know, Ben's just kind of a junkyard. [01:54:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:54:22] Speaker A: He's poor. [01:54:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:54:24] Speaker B: You don't have at least the base interest enough to try and make an interesting choice with each part of the story. It's like, what are you doing? [01:54:33] Speaker A: Why are you doing Varia? I don't care. How about Reddit? How about Incel? How about Doom is on Reddit? Yeah, it's like these things where it's like, sure, these can work, but like. [01:54:45] Speaker B: Yeah, but you have to cut a little more into it. [01:54:48] Speaker A: Yeah, you gotta, you gotta put a little pizzazz in it. You gotta make it feel a little fantastic. [01:54:55] Speaker B: Say that again. [01:54:56] Speaker A: Yeah, pizzazz. [01:54:58] Speaker B: Okay. [01:54:59] Speaker A: But yeah, I mean, it's just like out of the three of These films, I would probably say this is your favorite by far. Yeah. [01:55:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:55:06] Speaker A: While I would argue that 94 is a little bit worse because, again, at least this movie was released. [01:55:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:55:13] Speaker A: At the same time, I feel like this movie, at least with fan. With 94, you can constantly be like, why do I not like this? And your easy answer is, oh, it's because this didn't really get screened. It didn't. It was made to keep the rights. [01:55:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:55:29] Speaker A: And it was never released. So really, why should I be mad at a film that was never really meant to be seen? [01:55:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:55:35] Speaker B: Well, and it's like, you know, it's got the underdog quality, too, of just like this was made for a million bucks in the 90s. [01:55:41] Speaker A: Like, yeah, it's. And it's like, well, this movie is. [01:55:44] Speaker B: Just like, this movie is maybe more like the 2015 movie is maybe more embarrassing. [01:55:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:55:53] Speaker B: Because, you know, to spend all this money and all this time developing this really poorly conceived vision of a superhero movie that's kind of just cashing in on what you think the hottest trends are in superhero movies. [01:56:07] Speaker A: Yeah. And again, it's funny to think that when this movie is coming out, it is about a year after a no name director who is like, there's no way this guy can pull off the impossible, which is taking, I would say D level characters and a D level team in Marvel and turning them into a hit and then ended up being James Gunn's Guardians the Galaxy. That leads to a trilogy that. Now we have already talked about the fact that, like, we talked about the Superman sequels. Because this man is now doing. He's now doing dc. [01:56:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:56:44] Speaker A: Because the man is just like, yeah, why don't we just do the comics? [01:56:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:56:48] Speaker A: But like, adapt them. Right. Or at least adapt them in a way that works. [01:56:52] Speaker B: And it's like, yeah. Be. Yeah. Earnest with it. [01:56:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:56:56] Speaker A: It's just weird to see how all these, again, similar to the 2000s, all these different gears rolling and just being. [01:57:03] Speaker B: Like the timeline of all this is pretty wild to think about. Like, that, you know, it was only one year after Guardians. Also that it was one year before another director did the same thing and made a no name team into a film masterpiece with Suicide Squad. [01:57:24] Speaker A: You know, it's funny how, like, there is a comment thread with Suicide Squad with this film, which is both the directors think that they're. [01:57:31] Speaker B: It was taken away from them. [01:57:33] Speaker A: Their director's cuts would be unequivocally better in every way. [01:57:36] Speaker B: Well, I do think I. Tranquist said he had no interest. He Was like, there's no. I don't want to produce a tranq cut. It would never happen. I would hate it. [01:57:46] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I believe. [01:57:47] Speaker B: I'm guessing because he didn't actually get to ever finish. [01:57:51] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:57:53] Speaker B: Whereas David Ayers legendary masterpiece is still being denied. [01:57:59] Speaker A: Looking right into my eyes. Oh, yeah, it is just. Yeah, it is. It's why it's so funny where it's like when we. When we hear about talking about superheroes now and it's like, ah, you remember the good old days where there just wasn't a superhero film for a solid five years. And I'm like, no, talking about the 90s. Because it's the 90s. [01:58:20] Speaker B: No, I literally don't remember that. [01:58:22] Speaker A: It's the fucking 90s 80s. It's like. It's not like. It is not that anymore. [01:58:26] Speaker B: No, it's. [01:58:27] Speaker A: It is weird to think that this is the same year the Force Awakens comes out. Like, this is where we're at. [01:58:32] Speaker B: Where it's like superheroes have been a craze since X Men and Blade. [01:58:38] Speaker A: I would. Yeah, I would argue from 89, Batman, 89 onward, it has been situation of trying to figure out now there's been more failures in that regard in the 90s, I think more consistent. Consistent at that time. But then like, yeah, it led to basically leading into small spring boards that ultimately leads to the late 90s, early 2000s. Boom. Yeah, that leads into Iron man, which again, I just. Every time I think about the fact that Iron man's not even 20 years old. Yeah, the fact that it's like, it feels like we have been in this MCU space and just being in like this, you know, this constant ebbs and flows of just like we have been the people that have, like, you know, and it's not like there's nothing about, like, in terms of like us being like defenders of the mcu, but just the ebbs and flows and the roller coaster ride of just trying to be a part of like modern superhero stuff and not even talking about the streaming show aspect of it or the fact that like, we are now also in an era where just like full superhero films can get made for streaming and then get trashed tax cuts. Like, it's just insane. Or like In a Shazam 2 situation where it just gets thrown out. No one. A film that apparently actually. Never mind, because that film, according to Andy, does not exist. But it is just like having this roller coaster ride and think like, fuck, End Game was six years ago. [02:00:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:00:08] Speaker A: Like, it's barely been Half a decade since that movie came out, and so much content just. It's like. It feels so. And it just is like this thing where it's. Why it's so much. It's fascinating to look at the last 30 years and just be like, I can't believe in the slew of all this content. It has taken another decade to find someone. [02:00:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:00:31] Speaker A: And it defined a team that feel confident enough to be like, yeah, we could do Fantastic Four. [02:00:36] Speaker B: Right. [02:00:37] Speaker A: Will it pay off? I mean, by the time this episode comes out, we will hear about, like, you know, reviews, and I'll be thinking about it. But considering how the last few months, even though it didn't do as well as Quantumania, the fact that Thunderbolts has almost got a jump start, kind of like a shot in the arm the MCU needed. [02:00:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:00:57] Speaker B: And that was like, culturally. [02:00:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:00:59] Speaker B: And then emotionally, that is a film. [02:01:01] Speaker A: That is basically run by characters that people have mainly forgotten are still in the mcu. [02:01:06] Speaker B: Even MCU fans are like, yeah, who are these guys? [02:01:09] Speaker A: And yet they are people like, oh, my gosh, I can't wait to see Ghost. [02:01:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:01:14] Speaker B: The number of, like, this shows I need to, like, get off social media, but, like, the number of reels I get of, like, people talking about how John Walker is the best character in the mcu. [02:01:26] Speaker A: Crazy. [02:01:26] Speaker B: It's like, wow, okay, listen. [02:01:28] Speaker A: As someone who loves Wyatt Russell and. [02:01:30] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm glad that people responded to him. [02:01:33] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. I'm glad. I'm glad he was responded to. [02:01:35] Speaker B: But it's wild. [02:01:36] Speaker A: He is a piece. He's a piece of shit. And Falcon lure soldier. He's fun in Thunderbolts again. [02:01:41] Speaker B: It's like, he's still a piece of shit, but he's like, a rootable piece of shit. [02:01:44] Speaker A: Yeah. It's just funny how it's like, you know, it's. We have spent the last six years of Endgame just constantly hearing the same conversation of like, well, it's that time again. Should we talk about how superheroes will fully die now? [02:01:57] Speaker B: Yeah, it's all over. Yeah, it's been all over for 15 years. [02:02:00] Speaker A: And then Deadpool and Wolverine make a billion dollars. And it's like, well, that's. That doesn't count. [02:02:04] Speaker B: Right? [02:02:05] Speaker A: Or, you know, Quantumania makes, like, 300, 400, 500, like, half a billion dollars. And it's like, well, that movie sucks. I didn't know. And it's like, we're just, like, just. And we're. Yeah, it's just. Oh, my gosh. There's so much shit going on right now. And then someone just, like, decides to go, what if the Fantastic Four was back in that mix? Yeah, it is. It is now like a fucking vortex. Like a tornado of just all these different things constantly spinning at once from different companies. And it's now wild to think that we're now at a point where, like, you just seen. And at a time where the Fantastic Four, you know, in our first two iterations on this trilogy have basically just been like. Like, we're just gonna do it. Like, we're not really just gonna worry about, like, who gives a fuck? Like, if we get a sequel. Cool. We have ideas for that, but, like, we're just gonna do this. And, like, you know, 2015, of course, is the one where it's like, that is clearly worse in ways because it is just chained to the idea of, like, sequels. [02:03:09] Speaker B: Right. A world. [02:03:11] Speaker A: Maybe you could see Hugh Jackman, because we're both Fox Players properties. [02:03:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:03:16] Speaker A: Well, that was fun. How did that happen? You. You blew into the mic, and then it just popped like that. I don't know what happened. Let me see. [02:03:31] Speaker C: Okay. All right. [02:03:34] Speaker A: Was that a two? Here, I'm gonna take a picture of that so I can see what happened. [02:03:39] Speaker B: Oh, the time. [02:03:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:03:41] Speaker A: If I want to edit that or not. Hey, this is fun. And we're doing it live. I just thought it was funny. But, yeah, just to get to a point, I mean, just to have someone go, like, hey, guess what? We're made a Fantastic Four film, and it's not in the fucking MCU universe. It's a multiverse film. [02:04:00] Speaker B: Like, yeah, it is, but it isn't. [02:04:02] Speaker A: Yeah. The fact that. Yeah. Just to have, like, the last few years of just, like, film productions with superhero films feel like due to Covid, everything is so much more complicated. It means we're going to see a ton of the volume or it's just gonna get pushed back for years. And now this is the year with, like, this. It's Superman. It's felt like these are studios and these are productions where it's like, to have a Fantastic Four film be announced and be like, no, the cast is really talented and solid. We have an idea. It has a vision. [02:04:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:04:30] Speaker A: It has an aesthetic. It has no ties to, like, the other films right now, so you don't have to worry about, like, right, this or that. That. Like, just check it out. It's its own thing. Wildly. That it is. And of course, it makes sense, considering that it's going full 60s. [02:04:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:04:49] Speaker A: With its aesthetic, like, Jetsons esque, futuristic 60s and yeah, I'm. I'm excited. Like, by the time, by the time this episode comes out, we'll probably have already, you know, have some idea of over to like, maybe have a quickie talk about it or just like, you know, one of us will do a review maybe. But like, I mean, ultimately going through the not so, you know, fantastic first steps of these three films, there is just something where it's like, I couldn't be happier they were at a place where a studio can feel confident to make a film. Like First Steps, or at least the confidence to push it. Like it is where it's not hiding the fact that it's Fantastic Four, hiding the fact that Reed has rubber powers. It is just being like, you know who these characters are by Osmosis. Yeah, you, you know, have a good time and it's like it doesn't meet. Does it make the last 30 years of the ebbs and flows and the. The lows of some of these movies, specifically for Stick, worth it? I mean, we will have to see, but I feel like that's too much to put on First Steps. If anything, I'm just glad that First. First Steps doesn't feel like it is beholden to the history that Fantastic Four has had in movies in the last 30 years. [02:06:05] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:06:05] Speaker B: Feels like it's got a little bit of a blank slate. [02:06:08] Speaker A: So, yeah, that is the not so fantastic First Steps trilogy. Watch the Tim Story movies if you are so inclined. And you're like, if there's anything, I would. [02:06:21] Speaker B: If you want a little blast from the past of the superhero era, if. [02:06:25] Speaker A: You want a laundry folding movie movie and you got Disney plus, pop them on. Pop one on the other two. If you are morbidly curious, that is to your own discretion and you have. [02:06:35] Speaker B: Friends to keep you sane. [02:06:36] Speaker A: Do not watch it by yourself. [02:06:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:06:39] Speaker A: Keaton, if you're listening to this, thank you for being there for that first watch of Fan Force it with Me in theaters. You definitely kept me sane as best as you could seeing that movie in real time. [02:06:50] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [02:06:52] Speaker A: But yeah, now we've had a whole month of superhero trilogy with Superman and Fantastic Four Super July. You're probably thinking, what are you gonna do in August? What superhero shit's coming out in August? Well, guess what? We're not doing anything super related in August. [02:07:10] Speaker B: Taking another hard pivot. [02:07:12] Speaker A: Ah, my favorite. I love it when we do these. Andy, tell us. Tell the audience about the hard pivot. What are we doing to start off August? [02:07:20] Speaker B: Well, so our first trilogy in August is, I think, pretty unique, even among our entire catalog of trilogies. [02:07:31] Speaker A: Absolutely. [02:07:33] Speaker B: We're doing a trilogy of documentary style. I guess they're documentary films because they're just real life footage not shot on a set, not characters, not actors, just footage of people and places and things. I don't think there's any like actual speaking or dialogue aside from diegetic sounds in them. It's a. It's an interesting set of films that I think my understanding is it's. It's just meant to capture something about the essence of our world and our society and the lives we live and the places we live in. These are three documentary films. By gosh, the guy's name escapes me. Godfrey Reggio directed these three films, all of which, their titles end in the phrase Qazi. We've got Koyanis Qatsi, Power Qatsi and Nakoiqatsi, all three non narrative films directed by Reggio and also scored by Philip Glass. Oh, nice. And yeah, they're all. I don't know what our conversation about these films is going to look like. I'm excited about it. I'm excited to watch these films. I've heard so much about Koyanisqatsi particularly, which is the first of the three. And yeah, they're filmed across three decades, I think. 82. You done? Nope. [02:09:31] Speaker A: So I'd say go from. And they were filmed in. [02:09:36] Speaker B: Yeah, and they were filmed across three decades. Koyanis Qatsi in 1982, Parakatsi in 1988 and Nakoikatsi in 2002. So quite the span between them. And so, yeah, I'm not sure what to expect from these films. I'm not sure what to expect from our conversations about them. [02:09:57] Speaker A: No. [02:09:57] Speaker B: But I think it'll make for a really interesting trilogy. Trilogy in our canon. Just because of how different they are. I mean, the fact that they don't even really have a story to them and are just kind of more meant as an experience or representation of our world. [02:10:14] Speaker A: Again, this is one of those trilogies. And I say it constantly because that's why we love these hard pivots. These are the types of trilogies as to why we do this show. Yeah, it's like this is the type. When you think of trilogies, this is not the first thing that comes to mind or the second, third. What do you even say? The 20th thing that comes to mind for that. But for both of us being big Criterion heads and once we started to do the show, do the pod, we were like, very Curious about. Are there such things as like, you know, quote unquote, indie or artsy trilogies? [02:10:47] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [02:10:47] Speaker A: And guess what? To our chagrin, to our excitement, we have found plenty of those. [02:10:54] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:10:55] Speaker A: A lot of them are through Criterion and one of the ones that Criterion does is the concept trilogy. [02:11:00] Speaker C: Right. [02:11:00] Speaker A: And there's one that I think we both, at a certain point, I think we both knew what the name Katsi. [02:11:06] Speaker B: Right. [02:11:06] Speaker A: But didn't know entirely what that was in terms of what it meant in terms of why their tree, like the trilogy and the span. I mean, literally before we went on Mike today to talk about the Fantastic Four films, I, in my head, I know you told me at one point that all these Films are like 90 minutes, but my mind just really went like, oh, these all these three. This is like a six hour trilogy. [02:11:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:11:29] Speaker A: And I can be honest, it's a four and a half hours. [02:11:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:11:33] Speaker A: Again, yes, four and a half is still four and a half. But we're not watching these all the way through one go. [02:11:38] Speaker C: No. Yeah. [02:11:39] Speaker B: I think that we, our brains might melt with just all the footage if we watch them one after the other. [02:11:44] Speaker A: But I've heard other people talk about these movies and I've heard, you know, people really like, you know, thinking it's a well worth going through it. [02:11:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:11:53] Speaker A: Again, going through an entire month of just, you know, talking about, you know, trilogies that we're trying to tie into latest blockbusters that are about, especially with superhero films. And how every time we talk about superhero films we have just like, well, now we have to talk about the shit like all this tied into it because we're way too big a fucking nerds to not talk about it. [02:12:12] Speaker C: Right. [02:12:13] Speaker A: It's great to be like, now we get to be fucking nerds about filmmaking. And just the oddest sense. [02:12:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [02:12:20] Speaker C: Weird shit. [02:12:21] Speaker A: We love weird shit on the show. And don't worry, after the Qazi trilogy, we have another hard pivot that we're excited to do. But. Yeah, so this. So the Qatsi episode should be coming out, if I remember correctly. Is it August. [02:12:35] Speaker B: August 7th. [02:12:36] Speaker A: August. [02:12:37] Speaker B: No, August 9th. [02:12:38] Speaker A: August 9th. So, yeah, tune in on August 9th when we tackle the Qatsi trilogy. And as always, I'm Logan Soosh. [02:12:45] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [02:12:46] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.