Episode Transcript
[00:00:19] Speaker A: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Sowash.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr.
[00:00:24] Speaker A: And on Odd Trilogies, we take a trio of films, whether tied by cast and crew, thematic elements, or even just numerical order, and we talk about each film and discuss the good, the bad, and the weird surrounding them. And today we had our Thanksgiving episode last time with our Venom trilogy. You know, definitely our Thanksgiving episode because we were thankful that a character that we love so much we got three films in the span of six years. And in honor of that, I guess our Christmas episode is not a trilogy that is low on spirits, very high in spirits, but also high on a little thing that everyone would probably know is marijuana. Today our Christmas episode is the Harold and Kumar trilogy.
Because in case you don't know, the Harold and Kumar films, there are three of them, and they are 2004's Harold and Kumar Goes to White Castle or Go to White Castle, 2008's Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay and 2011's A Very Harold and Kumar Christmas. Or originally a very Harold and Kumar 3D Christmas because it was a 3D film.
And we thought that'd be one fun time just, you know, in a. In a season that is just bombarded with Christmas, as soon as Halloween is over, like almost a minute, it goes into November 1st, it is Christmas. We thought it'd be fun to have a quote unquote Christmas trilogy that is mainly just, you know, non Christmas films, but fun to have a trilogy that ends, strangely enough, on a Christmas movie.
[00:02:04] Speaker B: Yeah, we're swinging a little wide on the Christmas theming, but, like, oh, and we have. It's good.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: And hey, we have other Christmas ideas. We just thought it'd be funny to mix it up a bit.
[00:02:15] Speaker B: Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes you don't want to sit and watch three related Christmas movies and talk about them for 90 minutes to two hours.
[00:02:27] Speaker A: There's only so many times we could talk about the Santa Claus films until.
[00:02:31] Speaker B: They make three more.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: Until they make three more. Until they make three more seasons of the Santa Clauses.
But yeah, it's also funny because Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle, the first and probably the most popular of these three films. It is actually its 20th anniversary, which is fascinating because I think this was.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: Your idea, at least for this year's schedule. Did you have that in mind?
[00:02:58] Speaker A: No, that.
[00:02:59] Speaker B: Just a quint. Okay. No, just lucked out on the time.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: I thought, because again, we've done other kind of Christmasy type like trilogies that aren't really Christmas, like, I think of the odd Nutcracker trilogy. It's like those are Christmas seasoned. Or like last year where we did Christmas Story sequels and we really killed ourselves on that. But nonetheless, we thought it. I mean, I thought it'd just be fun just because, you know, it's an excuse to talk about the Harold and Kumar film as well as actually talk about something that is Christmas related. But in a way that most people. This is Harold and Kumar's Christmas is not the first film that people think of when they think of a Christmas comedy, let alone a Christmas.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: Nor is it the first film that people think of when they think of Harold and Kumar.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: No, no, no. And the fact that that film is also just a decade plus old is fascinating. And what's so kind of crazy about going back to Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle is that. Is this because you had seen this film once through, right? At least you'd seen it like at least once or twice before.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: No, no, I had not seen any of these movies.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: Oh, you hadn't? Okay. Cuz I knew you hadn't seen Guantanamo. I think what happened was I had seen.
[00:04:20] Speaker B: I had seen like some of the famous bits. Yeah, Go to White Castle, but never all the way through. No.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Okay. Because then that means. Okay, yeah, because I think what happened is you hadn't seen any of them. But we watched it with our friend Adam, who had seen the first one but had not seen Guantanamo the second one. He did not watch Christmas with Me. And I feel like he's probably fine with that. I think he's. Yeah, he's. I think he's fine. I don't. I don't think he was even aware that it happened.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: He liked. He liked my review of Christmas on Letterbox. So he probably saw that and was like, okay, I lucked out.
[00:04:53] Speaker A: Yeah, that's probably. I mean, as best as it can be. Yeah. But yeah, going into Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle, it's fascinating going back to it, especially since both of the leads in this film, John Cho and Kal Penn, have had such interesting trajectories, personal and professionally, when it comes to where they were right before this movie came out versus now. I mean, how. When it got to the third film, they were much different actors and much different people by the time they got to the third film. But in case you don't know about the Harold and Kumar films, Harold and Kumar in question, the titular characters are played by John Cho and Kal Penn and John Cho at the time that this movie comes out is a working actor who's been a decent amount of things at this point. He was mainly known for. Considering that the Harold and Kumar films are raunchy comedies, most people would probably know in that same space. He was the guy that basically popularized the term MILF in the original American Pie film as well as being in other things such as, like, Big Fat Liar. Yeah, I think he's in American Pie 2. But basically, he was mainly, I think, in a lot of his career early on side characters, if not smaller roles in comedies or in other films. And Kal Penny, on the other hand, pretty much. He popularized probably the Indian stereotype in the early 2000s with Van Wilder. With the classic Ryan Reynolds film of the early 2000s where he plays, I believe the Taj is his character. Yeah, Van Wilder.
But Kal Pen. Everyone loved Kal Pen and Van Wilder. If they. Who. If you've been out there and you've seen Van Wilder, you know who that is. I think I've seen Van Wilder on cable maybe twice because of Comedy Central. I think that's the only time I've seen that film. Yeah, I've never seen that film outside of cable. So I basically have seen, like, a third of that film because they had to cut out that out.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: So I knew his name, his character's name, and that was Taj. I did not realize his name was Taj Mahal.
[00:07:12] Speaker A: Okay, again, see, like. See, my introduction fits.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: Yeah, literally. Literally playing the stereotype.
[00:07:21] Speaker A: So what's so great about Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle is the fact that it's like you have two people of color who have played basically secondary characters in raunchy comedies or even stereotypes in some way, shape or form.
[00:07:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:35] Speaker A: Basically getting their own film, which is almost like it's. It's gotta be. The best way to describe this film, if people don't know, is, like, the raunchy comedy version of Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead.
[00:07:48] Speaker B: Like. Yeah, Neither character really embodies, like, leading lead, main character. Yeah.
[00:07:56] Speaker A: It's funny, too, because I remember this movie always stuck in my head when I first saw this movie, because I saw this probably when I was 11 or 12. Like, I think I was like. I think my dad at one point was just like, hey, we don't watch movies like, rated R by yourself. But I think you think this is funny, so I'm gonna watch this with you. And I remember watching this movie and, like, when the movie starts, there are two white guys that are kind of like the who you would think Are like the stereotypical leads in a raunchy comedy like this. And they're basically gonna go on a wild night out. And they put all of their homework. Or basically they're just their work on Harold, played by Josh. And then they leave, and then they don't ever show back up again until the very end.
[00:08:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:43] Speaker A: And then that's when my brain went, hold on, wait. Aren't those guys the leads? And my dad's like, no, they're not Harold or Kumar. You gotta keep watching. And then that's when it's like, you know, Kumar gets introduced and it's like, oh, these are the two that we're following. And then, of course, we go on this wacky, genuinely zany adventure about far.
[00:09:05] Speaker B: Far more zany than I expected, honestly.
[00:09:08] Speaker A: Far more zany than I remember. Like, I. Since that first time seeing the film, I have seen this film plenty of times. Like, I think this was like a. Like, especially after Super Bad came out, too. Like, this was one of those films I think was getting in steady rotation in terms of, like, raunchy comedy. And, like, I always thought there were just certain moments that were hilarious from this film. I mean, I was waiting this time watching it, but the. The advert for marijuana kills is so fucking funny. In this movie, the kid gets high and just puts the shotgun in his mouth.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: And, yeah, Kumar watching it, just losing his shit.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: He's like, I love this shit.
But, yeah, the basic premise, in case you again, don't know Harold and Kumar, is that Harold and Kumar get high, really want White Castle. And guess what? There's not a White Castle in, like, two or three miles of where they live. And so they spend a night of craziness. Of, you know, nudity, craziness, gags, you know, shit jokes, just all these different things, honestly, just really brings you back to what era this movie came.
The kind of jokes, the people that show up. Especially, like, the time period where it's like, yeah, I mean, Bobby Lee has aged like fine wine. I think everyone's thought that, you know, it's not really a cold. Not really a cold take on that. But just seeing him in this as well as, like, Anthony Anderson and, like, yeah, like, Christopher Maloney, like, Christopher from Ohlone is like, freak show.
There's all these.
[00:10:45] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. There's so many weird appearances.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: But, I mean, yeah, but of course, in character.
[00:10:54] Speaker B: But yes, yes.
[00:10:55] Speaker A: And of course, the one thing might. Most people might know these movies about is this is hilariously a film that reinvigorated the. The popularity if not the Persona of Neil Patrick Harris, right around How I met your mother was coming out.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: Right. And it might have been. This was what, like just before, I.
[00:11:18] Speaker A: Think a year before.
[00:11:20] Speaker B: Yeah, because I mean, at this point, Neil Patrick Harris would have mostly been known for Doogie Howser. Yeah.
You know, this young sitcom kid and these movies. He is nothing like that.
[00:11:35] Speaker A: No, he is absolutely abhorrent and he is hilarious because of it. And apparently the funny thing too, because MPH has talked about this in other interviews, especially more recently when like, they do like the look back on your career and stuff. Apparently they wrote him in the script and didn't ask for permission.
Yeah, like, they just. They were seeing if they could. Like if there are other people that could pretend to be him before they were going to ask him. And then like a friend of Neil Patrick Harris has told him that.
But of course that leads to one of the best lines of the movie. Did Dookie Howser just steal my fucking car? Which is just right. Right on top of just some of the funniest visuals with him in the car.
[00:12:18] Speaker B: And yeah, there was quite a bit of that kind of, I don't know, hopeful.
Hopefulness or wishful thinking going on in the, like, the writing of this film because absolutely.
The John Hurwitz and Hayden Schlossberg, who are the guys who wrote the script pretty much just based on like, their own high school antics and stuff. They originally wrote this to be about Krispy Kreme. Yes, you told me about Donut restaurant, donut store or whatever.
But after they got the script, you know, like picked up by somebody and they consulted with Krispy Kreme, Krispy Kreme wanted nothing to do with the movie about two deadbeat stoners fucking around all night. So they were like, okay, who else do we try? And they found White Castle and White Castle was all about it.
[00:13:13] Speaker A: And it makes. It's hilarious too, because it's like, have you ever seen a Krispy Kreme store that is open past like 6pm Right. Like, to think of like that story either is like, they have to have, like, basically sell the idea that there is one Krispy Kreme store that is like 24 hours or something like that?
[00:13:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And I mean, I would imagine that the way they come, the way they arrive at the idea to go to Krispy Kreme would have had to have been different because, like, I don't know, I never would have associated Krispy Kreme with like, oh, that's a go to, like high brain food. Like Stoner brain food.
[00:13:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:54] Speaker B: I would think of something more like White Castle. You know, burgers and fries, greasy shit.
You know.
So it's just interesting to think, like. I don't know, they would have had to have, like, made a point in the film to be like, you know, weirdly enough, what sounds good? Krispy Kreme doughnuts.
[00:14:11] Speaker A: Yeah, it's.
And just the. The way that the advertising. Can you imagine trying to make that Krispy Kreme. Getting a Krispy Kreme ad and trying to make it, like. Because they do, like, a sexy, almost delicious, savory type, crispy, like, White Castle commercial. It's like the best commercial of White Castles ever had. Like, this whole film in a nutshell.
[00:14:32] Speaker B: Right, Right.
[00:14:33] Speaker A: But it's just, yeah. Funny to think that, like, it is definitely a film that is, like you said, just really hoping that it kind of falls into place and arguably, I think really does in a lot of moments. I think, like, definitely the. John Cho and Kal Penn are just, like, I think, genuinely pretty phenomenal in, like, in these roles.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: Yeah, they're. They're a magnetic pair.
And it's. I mean, it's great, too, because they are. Yes, they are both kind of, you know, they have that sort of slacker, stoner energy. But there's a contrast between them, and that is that Harold is actually, you know, a fairly successful, dedicated professional.
He's serious about his job. In fact, that's kind of a point of tension in the film is that he's trying to get this work done that those two bozos at the beginning dumped on him. He's trying to get that stuff done and shit keeps getting in the way.
Meanwhile, Kumar is just. He's just the epitome of the stoner, ne'er do well guy who sits at home and eats and watches TV and jerks off.
[00:15:46] Speaker A: And what's great, though, too, is that the film constantly reminds the audience that, like, not in a bad way either, that Kumar is probably the smartest of both of them, technically. Because he could. He wants.
[00:15:58] Speaker B: Naturally.
[00:15:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Because he's, like, in medical school, he is very much, like, very well aware of everything and could become a doctor if he had the drive.
And that becomes the biggest issue. And it is very fun to watch them kind of go back and forth and then just kind of. Yeah. Remind myself that, like, now looking back, it's, you know, it's not even trying to be like, they don't make films like this anymore. It's like, no, this is pretty. A novel idea. Having it not just be two regular white guys just going through this, you know, crazy hoops just to get these White Castle burgers. Like, it probably is in an alternate dimension compared to, like. And you even get that with the fact that, like, they have two Jewish friends played by Krumholtz. And one of the guys from American Pie franchise, he's. I can't remember what his actor's name is. I think it's Rosenberg and Goldstein. I think it's.
[00:16:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I think his name. Goldstein.
[00:16:57] Speaker A: Which, again, the Clearly Rosencrantz and Guildenstern kind of energy right there. But, like. Yeah, because they're also looking for hot dogs at one point at the same time that the guys are looking for White Castle.
[00:17:11] Speaker B: And they keep. They, like, run into each other on their night out on the town.
[00:17:15] Speaker A: And even Harold and Kumar run into different versions of themselves to get the shit beat out of them.
[00:17:20] Speaker B: Right.
It is.
Well, the movie. I mean, speaking of all the people and shit they run into the movie is basically kind of a one big shaggy dog story or, like, wild goose chase.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:37] Speaker B: Where it's obviously very simple. Goals set out at the beginning of the film. We're gonna go to White Castle. And, yes, it's out of town or it's 40 minutes away or whatever they say.
But, you know, the shit these guys go through trying to get to White Castle is like, we genuinely reach, like, Looney Tunes level hijinks.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.
[00:18:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Fucking getting lost in the woods and getting attacked by bikers or muscle men or whatever who make dinosaur noises and.
[00:18:12] Speaker A: Oh, the extreme sports guys.
[00:18:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:18:15] Speaker A: They just throw homophobic slurs at them and are just, like, kayaking in a gas station convenience store. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it very much has that energy of other raunchy comedies at that time where it's like, the premise is a single sentence that you could definitely see. Like, yeah, they're looking for White Castle. The end of the story is they get White Castle. And everything in between is basically going, how? What's the nastiest, goofiest things we can do here? Who can we throw in as a cameo here? What can we do there? What kind of, you know, joke can we make about, you know, shit, pee, weed, beer, Asian stereotypes, Indian stereotypes. Like, what can we do here? And then that basically fills the movie. That's basically everything from the beginning to end. But, like, thankfully, it is not just that in the basic sense. There is a lot of moments to kind of develop Harold and Kumar's people just enough that it's like doesn't feel like they're wasting time, but they still know why people are watching. So, of course, it's like, oh, my gosh, there's a topless scene that at a fraternity sorority party, right? There's like, all. All these people are hitting on them and they're getting super high. Or, like, there's this and that. Like, there's nothing about this film in any way, shape or form says, like, they should have a scene where two British women play a game of Battleship with, like, their farts in a bathroom really taking a shit. Or, like, Kumar should have a daydream about having sex with a bag of weed. There's nothing about this movie that screams that should be what it is other than just, like, let's be raunchy. Let's just throw it out.
[00:20:06] Speaker B: Right?
[00:20:07] Speaker A: And thankfully, they commit to it so well enough that, like, I think it works in the film's favor to, you know, still be dated. Absolutely. Still is. Nate in the year 2004. But I think has held up incredibly well by having just very fun leads and fun side characters that are not all just assholes that ask Harold if he's good at math. Or ask Kumar if he's Apu from, like, Simpsons.
[00:20:37] Speaker B: Right?
[00:20:37] Speaker A: Is there. It's.
[00:20:39] Speaker B: Yeah. It goes above and beyond the kind of the jokes that you would expect of that time. It indulges in them.
[00:20:46] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely.
[00:20:47] Speaker B: Beyond.
[00:20:48] Speaker A: Oh, I am. It is. It is still a film again from 2004. Like, this is absolutely, like, it is absolutely. At this point, everything that Harold and Kumar is doing at its base is raunchy comedy formula from the 2000s. This is, like, the amount of films that are, like, you know, you could just, like, go, oh, throw in Dane Cook and that's basically employee of the month. Or like, this. Throw in this actor. Throw this. And, like, basically a Todd Phillips film here and there at times. But, like.
[00:21:19] Speaker B: Oh, you mean like Joker 2?
[00:21:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, Ado. Yeah. The best raunchy comedy of 2024.
But, yeah, I mean, again, it's. It's funny because it's like, I think, genuinely the herald. And Kumar is really good. I had a really. I have a really good time rewatching it. And I think there's a lot of there to admire from this film. But at the same time, hilariously, there's just. I don't know if there's really much to talk about without it being like, well, you just gotta see it.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Without just, like, telling you all the jokes and the setups and everything. Yeah, it's the biggest, like, kind of takeaway, I think. I think the biggest thing that, like, makes it stand out aside from the leads being people of color and the film kind of treating that as sort of, you know, an afterthought.
The just the. Yeah, like we said earlier, the absolute zaniness of it. The absurdist levels of comedy that this movie goes to. To kind of go beyond the just like sex, weed and go into like, genuine Wily Coyote and Roadrunner shit.
Yeah, it just really makes it a bunch of fun. Like just an absolute blast.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: It is interesting. Yeah, it's interesting. Just committing to that and then basically making this, the Harold film while, you know, the next film is more of a Kumar centric story. And then three is kind of a mix in as best of a way as a film that three can be. But we can get to that when we get to it.
Because, yeah, even as a kid, I think I really remember just like, I do like the fact that even though it makes no sense and I love it the fact that, like, the guys that put all their work on Harold just show up at the White Castle that they end up at. And, like, Harold has this scene where he's like, you know, standing up to them. He tells the girl that he likes down the hall that he likes her and she likes him back. And ends on, honestly, I think a really fun, like, I guess technically a cliffhanger of like, well, hey. Well, hey, Roldy. Which is what Kumar calls Harold. Like, you know, what's legal? Amsterdam. And so you're like, oh, the next film is gonna be Harold and Kumar Get Blazed in Amsterdam.
[00:23:35] Speaker B: Or something like that.
[00:23:37] Speaker A: Never, I think in anyone's wildest dreams that four years after this film comes out. Because this film, I think, did well enough when it first came out in theaters. I think it definitely is like a. This movie screams a huge rental hit and a cable and very much classic.
[00:23:56] Speaker B: Yeah, it doubled its budget at the box office. But it didn't, like, blow it out of the water. It wasn't one of those, like, a James Wan film made for $500,000 in a ham sandwich and made 200 million.
But, yeah, I mean, it clearly did well. But I think it gained a lot of popularity from probably college students renting it.
[00:24:21] Speaker A: I don't know what you mean. Why would college kids like this movie so much? But no, yeah, I think you're right. It's very much like making a sequel, honestly, does feel like a no brainer in terms of just like, well, yeah, people like this. So let's make another. And also John Cho and Kal Pen or. I mean, this is like when this film comes, when the second one comes out, it's like a year before Star Trek.
[00:24:43] Speaker B: Mm.
[00:24:44] Speaker A: And then I think it's also around this time Kal Penn has started being on House before he ultimately becomes.
[00:24:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Referring to House of D. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:24:56] Speaker A: And then I think after Guantanamo is when he leaves. Around that time he leaves House and works for the Obama administration, which is.
[00:25:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Just wild.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: Wild to say that Kumar from Kumar. That a man that has said. The man that has heard the phrase cock meat sandwich and has said it out loud. Worked for the Obama administration pretty closely to Obama.
But, yeah. Not. Not even a little bit of my brain, as someone who would, like, watch the first one and really enjoyed it growing up, would have ever thought that the next film would be a Wilder, to a degree, bigger budget.
Escape from Guantanamo. Fugitives on the run.
[00:25:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:40] Speaker A: Versus we have to Save the Girl of My Dreams from marrying a douchebag film where the leads are Harold and Kumar in 2008's Harold & Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay. Also, George Bush is there. Not really George W. Bush, but.
[00:25:56] Speaker B: But as a character.
[00:25:57] Speaker A: As a character, yes.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: Yeah. What a. What a. I mean, I guess to some degree it makes sense, you know, with. With how kind of crazy the first film gets. This movie about going to White Castle becomes this giant, crazy journey to then go, you know, jump kind of an absurd degree in scale for your sequel. That makes sense.
But it is funny how this film kind of. It kind of bait and switches you twice in that, you know, not only is it not Harold and Kumar go to Amsterdam as the main plot, which is what the first film sets up, but also the Guantanamo Bay part is like, barely any of the movies.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: It's the first. It's like the end of Act 1 into Act 2 around that time. Yeah, yeah, it's.
[00:26:55] Speaker B: And then it just kind of ends up being another road movie. Sort of like the first one.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:00] Speaker B: I mean, obviously doing different beats and stuff.
[00:27:02] Speaker A: But I didn't fully look into, like, the. What the. For, like, creation process and, like, the development process was for two. But I imagine just in terms of, like, if you want to keep writing for these characters, in a way, the first thing is, like, we can't have another Harold and Kumar go to insert Fast food or product placement.
[00:27:25] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: Like, there's probably. With the. With Hurwitz and Schlossberg. John Hurwitz and Hayden Schlossberg are the writers, I believe of all three of these films.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:34] Speaker A: And I can imagine for them, if they're coming back and they're like, well, shit, we get to make another one. We like these characters. We want these characters to stand on their own. So it's probably best if we don't just automatically go, well, now it's Harold and Kumar go to Subway, right? Hey, they're very much like, what if we out. Let's just do like an event thing. And I guess the event in this is Guantanamo Bay. Why not? They escape it. And they do escape it so early on. But genuinely, I think that is to the film's favor to a degree, because then that means you don't know what the fuck is happening next. And like in classic. And I think the best parts about this film is that that's when the film is just like pulling things under the rug constantly. Where it's like, okay, this is a funny premise. This is funny. Okay, cool. Okay, cool. Whatever.
[00:28:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:27] Speaker A: Now I will say though, this film is about 10 to 15 minutes longer than the first film. And it feels it. It's like one of the biggest things about this film is the fact that it's like, you can feel the fact that, like, when it comes to comedies, it needs to really be tight. That first film is pretty goddamn tight. When you just add just a little bit too much fat on certain scenes. It is very much like, oh my God.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's milking jokes a little bit longer. It's. There's a little bit more like, I don't know, kind of, I guess just kind of like standard comedy sequelitis. Especially around this era of just like, oh, we've, we've got more money this time. Let's, you know, throw in a cameo here or a needle drop here or, you know, have a. There's not really any expensive sets in this movie. But, you know, here's another location I was wrong.
[00:29:26] Speaker A: This movie is nearly 30 minutes longer than the first 30. So the first film is about a minute, about a minute, an hour 28. And Harold and Kumar 2 is about. And nearly two hours.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: Oh, geez.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: And you can tell it's very much like that.
[00:29:44] Speaker B: I mean, it was noticeable, very noticeable.
[00:29:46] Speaker A: While watching it, I remember to think about, like, this is at a time too where it's like, I think the same year that Guantanamo Bay comes out is like Speed Racer. Like the Wachowski Speed Racer. And I remember people like saying, like, why the fuck would I see a two hour film of Speed Racer? And now I'm Just being like. I can't believe they thought they were really just gonna push people to see a two hour film.
Because, again, I still really enjoy that first one. And I do like this one. Mm. Definitely less than the first and second time that I saw it. And so this might be the fourth time I've seen Guantanamo maybe, because, again, I think this one was in a little bit less of a rotation. But it still was because it's Harold and Kumar. And so in my head, I was like, well, it's. You know, it's got to be there with White Castle. But in reality, it's like, it is very much a. You know, you're not gonna. It's like a bit of a sophomore slump in certain spaces in terms of just like.
[00:30:46] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's clear that they felt they couldn't stray too far structurally from what the first movie was in terms of, like, okay, we gotta keep Harold and Kumar on the road, running into different groups and weirdos and things like that and sort of have something of a time crunch element.
So it ends up, you know, running over a lot of the same beats and doing so at the same. Well, not quite the same pace because it's over 20 minutes longer. Yeah.
But it basically, you know, does the kind of classic thing of, you know, upping the ante at, like, a superficial level, but not really in a way that feels, like, meaningfully bigger. It's like, okay, George Bush is gonna show up in the movie now because, well, George, we didn't have a president in. We didn't have a sitting president in the first film.
[00:31:51] Speaker A: Why not?
[00:31:52] Speaker B: Yeah, so why not before the first.
[00:31:53] Speaker A: Black president gets put into office or I think as he's getting into office, like, let's just.
[00:31:58] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:31:59] Speaker A: Let's just. Adam. And yeah, it is very much because the first films. Stinger is. Well, Harold now might have a girlfriend because he talked to his one roommate, talked to his one neighbor once.
Well, what if we gave Kumar love interest? And I think from that point, that is. Yeah. That is the part that is the most lacking of this movie is the.
[00:32:21] Speaker B: Fact that, like, yeah.
[00:32:23] Speaker A: Vanessa as a character, because it's Maria, is Harold's love interest, is going to Amsterdam, and then Vanessa is the girl that basically, Vanessa is like his first. Is Kumar's first love as well as the woman that got him into weed, is what.
[00:32:38] Speaker B: Yeah. What's shown in kind of the flashbacks and stuff is that she was. Back when she was edgy. Yeah.
Kumar was dating Kumar.
[00:32:47] Speaker A: Just need to chill out. You just need to chill out. There's only one way to chill out. And then leads to like a, like Kumar being like, ah, she's the one that got away. And the thing is, is, like between when she is first introduced and towards the end of the film, you only get one other scene with Kal Penn and Vanessa's actress together. There is not a lot of time for them to really build chemistry with one another besides, like the flashback.
[00:33:19] Speaker B: Yeah, you get most of that through flashbacks, which feels a little bit like, okay, but that's not how things currently are, you know?
[00:33:27] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's also like, as the film is in between all this stuff, doing the. The bong on the airplane is a bomb.
Also, Rob Cordry being a very racist government agent who thinks Harold and Kumar are terrorists. And like, anytime he runs into a person of color or just of a different faith than him, he does things that are supposed to, you know, make them break.
Like, like again, I like the prime example of that is like when Harold and Kumar crash that car into like that. That neighborhood, that all black neighborhood. And they think it's gonna be very terrible and terrifying, but they actually fix their car.
[00:34:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:13] Speaker A: And actually call the police to make sure they put the report in and like, explain to him. And Rob Corduroy's character thinks that they're hiding something because they're black.
And it's like, okay, this is. This is what the whole film is gonna be. And then of course, it's like, okay, Rob Corduroy meets Harold and Kumar's parents and is asking Ed Helms, like, in a pretty like. Like a mid. Mid to late mid to latter era office. So, like, he's this probably where they would know him at the time.
[00:34:45] Speaker B: He would have. I think he would have just been on like his first or second year of the office when this came out, probably.
[00:34:51] Speaker A: And he plays a translator that I think is speaking Korean to Harold's parents, but Harold's parents are speaking English back to.
[00:34:59] Speaker B: Yeah, they can speak English again.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: Bits that I think just on a baseline are like, kind of like, are chuckle worthy if handled correctly and can be a lot funnier depending on the execution. And I think the unfortunate thing with this film is unlike White Castle, where I think that execution elevate some of those jokes in this, I think the execution just kind of keeps them at like, their basic superficial level of like. And it happens so many different times of just like, okay, Rob Cordry is stupid and he's racist and he has no idea he's going to give the. He's going to give Rosenberg and Goldstein a bunch of pennies and say that like, it just like make a big deal about that. All the loose change everywhere. It's like, okay, great. Yeah, whatever.
[00:35:41] Speaker B: It's. It's kind of like a lot of the bits are like a funny premise, but they never found like the punchline. So instead, yeah, just like delivering the punchline and moving on from the bit. They kind of run the bit out for five minutes, kind of, you know, and kind of being like, isn't this a funny situation?
[00:36:01] Speaker A: Which again, makes sense if it's. If you want to get to your movie, like to two hours, just take every bit from the first film and add maybe two to three minutes. And that's like. Yeah, I think I completely forgot about this bit until now. But like the, the redneck family bit where it's supposed to be again, almost like a, A turn from like meeting freak show in the first film and seeing like his beautiful wife. And the second film they meet these, we believe are hillbillies, but in reality they live in this nice posh house and they're very rich.
And the bit is that they're very, you know, they're noteworthy, they're very affluent and not exactly because like the outside of their house is just like a mobile trailer. And then inside it's like this gorgeous house. And you think the bit's gonna end five, six minutes before the bit actually ends when they decide to say, oh, by the way, we are brother and sister and we have an incestuous cyclopson.
[00:37:02] Speaker B: Who we locked in the basement.
[00:37:04] Speaker A: Yeah. And that inbred son has a cyclops eye.
[00:37:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:08] Speaker A: And then the bit keeps going. And again, doesn't mean there weren't chuckle worthy moments in that bit. But the bit is like very much like there's a reason why SNL bits don't go past a certain number like another like time. And. And then you just go like, okay, now we get a Rob Corduroy bit that goes on a little too long. Now we're getting Vanessa stuff that is like, okay, this is fine. But like, where is this? Like, it gets to a point when we get to the end of this movie. Towards that, I mean, I will say, I do think that Rob Cordray's characters finale is one of the funniest fucking things in this movie when there it is. I don't want to even spoil it here, honestly, because to be honest, of all the things I remember from this film, Rob Cordray's exit from the movie is one of the Funniest things, I think, any raunchy comedy I've ever seen. Just the commitment to that bit. If the whole film was like that, it would be so much better if it was tighter. And that commitment.
[00:38:09] Speaker B: Yeah. That. That part of the movie feels like the movie kind of finally getting back to the sort of insane, goofy levels of the first movie.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:38:21] Speaker B: Of like, we're just gonna. We're just gonna Looney Tunes this shit, and it's gonna work.
[00:38:26] Speaker A: But then we get to the finale, which is like Kumar confessing love, his love to Vanessa.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: Right, Right.
[00:38:34] Speaker A: And at a certain point when I was. I got. I nearly, I think, laughed out loud because I was like, this scene is shot like a Gary Marshall film. They actually put effort into making this look like a normal movie. As if I didn't just hear a man say cock meat Sandwich at least five or six times in the last 30 minutes or just see George W. Bush just smoke pot with Harold and Kumar. Like, it's. It's one of those things where it's like, the first film can get away with it enough because it's not doing. It's still doing outlandish shit. But it's able to keep it grounded enough in terms of, like, what Harold and Kumar want, that it's like, it's fine when we do, like, the cheetah shit or another kind of roadblock gets in their way. They're like, when it gets to, like, you gotta stand up for yourself. Roll D. Like, that kind of stuff doesn't feel entirely out of place.
It feels out of place at times. A Guantanamo Bay, when it's just like, kumar, she's the love of your life. Don't do that. Like, that kind of shit.
But, yeah, I mean, I think Guantanamo Bay is a solid sequel. I think it's fun, definitely, for a watch. I don't think it's, like, if I don't love it, but if, like, you know, if you're out there and you do love it, good for you. I just. I just think there's, like, unfortunately, going forward, it doesn't. We won't get back to the White Castle kind of zaniness from this point forward.
[00:40:02] Speaker B: No.
Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah. I mean, if you're. If you're a huge fan of the first one, haven't seen the second one, there's no reason you shouldn't watch the second one. Yeah, it's. It's a fun time. And it's more of Jon Cho and Cal Penn, you know, and mph.
[00:40:21] Speaker A: You get some Neil Patrick Harris Mph.
[00:40:23] Speaker B: Comes back and his just debauching just as he was in the first.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: You can definitely tell that the Barney Stinson era is hard in his performance in a good way.
And you know, his. And honestly his exit out of the film is also probably one of the funnier parts of this movie as well.
But going from here, we now have a three, about a three year gap. So like this is now we're at a point where I think when people saw Guantanamo Bay, they're like, okay, so this ties it up pretty nicely. Not only does it tie it up nicely, like the film doesn't even really know how to end. So like when Guantanamo Bay just ends, you're like, okay, so like it's a double feature, it's a two hander. You got White Castle and now you got her boys. They're happy, they're doing their thing. You don't need to really make another one. Well, I think Guantanamo did well enough. People liked it well enough that at a certain point we do in fact get our finale in our Christmas movie of the trilogy, which is a very Harold and Kumar 3D Christmas. Or if you just watch it anywhere else, Christmas. But you can definitely tell just watching it in 2D that this movie was.
[00:41:36] Speaker B: Made at a time where it's got the gimmicks.
[00:41:39] Speaker A: It's got. And it's. I mean, again, thankfully it is a film that is not trying to actually use the gimmick in a way that is like holly genuine. Like it's using the gimmick as a gag, which begs the question, why use the gimmick for. So they do.
[00:41:58] Speaker B: You could, you could have probably made your made fun of 3D movies with like one gag and then just left it alone. But yeah, you do get the kind of 3D shit flying at the screen.
[00:42:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:10] Speaker B: Like once or twice a scene like.
[00:42:13] Speaker A: Bobby Lee's point of the camera at the very beginning is like really the only joke you need where like Harold's like, who are you talking to? Why are you doing that?
[00:42:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:23] Speaker A: And that's like the only real joke outside of like the gags they use for it, which is just like the standard poking, you know, things into the.
[00:42:32] Speaker B: Screen or just thrown and it comes out at you.
[00:42:35] Speaker A: Yeah. If you're wondering, yes, a penis does get used in a 3D sense, but not the way that you would think. Yeah, you know, that's Harold and Kumar. They like to do a little twist and turn here and there. But weirdly enough, the story, I think out of all three of these films Even with the White Castle stuff, the premise in the first one, and the wild stuff in Guantanamo. I think the premise for a very Harold Kumar Christmas is probably the weirdest because.
[00:43:06] Speaker B: Yeah, arguably the most ludicrous, it is a.
[00:43:11] Speaker A: Since the original film takes place in 2004 and Guantanamo Bay takes place literally minutes after White Castle ends, Harold and Kumar Christmas basically is jumping from 2004 to 2010, 2011. And so it's like being like, where are they now six years later? And it's a story of Harold and Kumar reconnecting while Harold is trying to get a Christmas tree just in time for Christmas day. Because Kumar accidentally burned it.
[00:43:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:44] Speaker A: And Harold doesn't want to ruin his wife Maria, who's now they're married now, Maria's dad's Christmas, who is played by Danny Trejo. Because of course what we get is a tight 93D Christmas film that, you know, it being Christmas means you can basically be like, oh my gosh, what if we said fuck in a Christmas film or we did this?
[00:44:13] Speaker B: Right.
[00:44:13] Speaker A: What if a baby got high on accident in 3D and that's like.
[00:44:20] Speaker B: Does the baby get high on coke? It's cocaine, isn't it? It's both weed and cocaine.
[00:44:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Cuz like Kumar accidentally hot boxes with a baby in the cry. And then later I think, yes, someone accidentally sneezes cocaine in the baby. And then Thomas Lennon, who plays Harold's friend and co worker, I think, who has the baby, who is a. Who's a non. Who's a character that exists in this movie. Not really much there.
[00:44:49] Speaker B: He certainly exists.
He's no Lieutenant Jim Dangle, that's for sure.
[00:44:54] Speaker A: No, he's also no Adrian, who was played by College Humor at the time. College Humor's Amir from Jake and Amir.
[00:45:06] Speaker B: Oh, right, yeah.
[00:45:08] Speaker A: An actor that.
[00:45:09] Speaker B: I forgot about that character. You.
[00:45:11] Speaker A: What's funny is that I didn't know that Harold and Kumar3 was happening until I saw College Humor. Talk about Amir. They're not doing like Jake and Amir stuff for a while because Amir was busy shooting the film.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: Like you found out.
[00:45:26] Speaker A: That's how I found out. Because like I watched College Humor, I mean again like in display in high school and like. Yeah, just a lot of like power thirst. A lot of Jake and Amir. A lot of goofball shit the College Humor was doing at the time. I. Jake and Amir was like everywhere, it felt like. And so like I think at one point they did a roast of Amir. Like either like live streamed it or they did like a video where like all the OG college humor people were basically like, oh, Amir's all big Hollywood. Cause he's in Harold and Kumar 3.
[00:45:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:46:00] Speaker A: And you watch this fucking movie and that man is just there, like. Yeah, I mean, it's.
[00:46:08] Speaker B: He doesn't really get any of the funny bits or beats. He's just kind of a normal dude.
[00:46:13] Speaker A: No, because, I mean, they're there basically. Thomas Lennon and Amir are there basically to be stand ins for Harold and Kumar for each other. Like, they're supposed to be each other's.
[00:46:26] Speaker B: Yeah, they're like the second Harold and Kumar duo. Yeah, they're kind of like the supporting Harold and Kumar.
[00:46:32] Speaker A: And they are there. They exist. Yeah, this is. This is the way that I described it to Andy because I actually hadn't read your litter box review. So I don't fully know where you stand on it with me. But I like to. I like to describe movies like this as movies that exist. Which I know all movies exist. But I think, you know, when it comes to having strong opinions on movies, you know, when you hear someone go, oh, that was a movie that really just shows you what type of movie that is. And that is, in my mind, Harold and Kumar. A very Harold and Kumar Christmas.
[00:47:06] Speaker B: Right. If all you have to say is that it exists, then there's probably not much to it. Yeah.
[00:47:11] Speaker A: I mean, good for Jon Cho and Kal Penn getting a. Another check.
You know, like Neil Patrick Harris does. Again, at this point it's pretty clear that, like, Neil Patrick Harris is just like, okay, I get it. I'm just the biggest piece of shit in the world. I come back to be mean, whatever. But he still is, like. Even though he is very disinterested in being in the movie. It is funny how, like, his stuff, he has the funniest lines. Even though he's being. Yeah, he's basically doing me Too shit before Me too shit was even like. People talk about what producers, like, sleazy producers and stuff did. It is funny that Neil Patrick Harris's actual husband is in the film pretending to be an actor they hired.
Like, basically saying that pretended to be gay because gay gay guys get more women than straight guys, which is just.
[00:48:09] Speaker B: Right. Right.
[00:48:10] Speaker A: Because there's a clay. There's a Clay Aiken joke.
[00:48:13] Speaker B: Yep. Well, and of course, there's the. There's the bit where NPH pretends to be gay to get alone in a room with a woman and get her undressed. And then.
[00:48:25] Speaker A: Yeah, that. That whole scene has such a different context now than, like, Evans. I mean, thank God he said such a goofy line like, yeah, I'm gay. Gay for that pussy.
It was just to hear Neil Patrick Harris say that was such. Just, like, ferocity.
Yeah. It's so funny, too, that Neil Patrick Harris shows up. Harold and Kumar are in the bits in his. In his scenes, but they don't interact with him that much. And then when they do, he goes, harold, Kumar, what's up? We guys need. And they tell him what he needs and they go, great, I'll get it for you. Hey, see you in the next one. And that's, like, all it is.
[00:49:08] Speaker B: Yeah. And that. I mean, that kind of speaks to how the whole movie is. It all feels very, like, disjointed and like, well, we gotta have all these pieces because these are Harold and Kumar pieces. Or, you know, because we're in the third movie and we have to add characters or whatever. You know, it doesn't. It doesn't feel very integrated because the big.
[00:49:32] Speaker A: The emotional core of the film is supposed to be. Is about. Of course, it's a Christmas film, so it has to be about family, but in different ways. Where Harold's big thing is trying to, you know, impress Maria's dad so he can be a part of her family and just not feel so uncomfortable around him. While Azbeth Kumar is discovering that his recent ex, Vanessa, from the last film is pregnant. And so it's him having to discover whether or not, you know, if them being together means he actually feels like he's ready to be a father if he wants to get back together with her. And, you know, a lot of fatherhood stuff in there. Because even Harold, I think, is, like. Even admits that, like, he wants to have kids with Maria and that it ultimately ends up being like, yeah, we're two guys in our 30s that want to have kids and we're trying to figure out what the next stages in life are. And we just, you know, haven't talked in a while, so let's. Let's reconnect. And.
[00:50:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it.
[00:50:36] Speaker A: Again, I think the. These films, all three of these films are worth at least a watch. Mainly because of John Cho and Kal Penn. Like, it's like, there's a reason why if. If they did A four, which I don't even. They. I don't think they would ever, ever do.
[00:50:53] Speaker B: Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, I guess I could see, like. I don't know, with all that, with. With legacy sequels and things, there seems to be, like, a pendulum to the time that passes where, like. Yeah, time passes and you feel like it's not worth it anymore. And then a little bit more time passes and suddenly it feels like, well, maybe now is the best time to do it because it's long enough or whatever. And then, you know, if you wait a little bit longer, then once again it's like, yeah, let's not do it. So the. The way that this third one turned out, I guess I would bet probably not gonna get another one.
[00:51:30] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:51:32] Speaker B: And also just the fact that John Cho has clearly kind of moved up in the world a little bit, as in terms of the acting roles he chooses, he does a lot more dramatic stuff.
[00:51:44] Speaker A: And you're talking about Cowboy Bebop. Netflix's Cowboy Bebop.
[00:51:48] Speaker B: All time classic live action Cowboy Bebop.
[00:51:50] Speaker A: No. Yeah.
[00:51:51] Speaker B: Meanwhile, Kal Penn has. I don't know that he's like, officially. I don't think he's like retired, but it seems like he's pulled back in his acting work. Yeah, he's more content to do like activist stuff and yes. He just kind of live his life.
[00:52:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
Kal Penn is. It's funny too. We talked about it while we were talking these movies. Kal Penn's Kumar is very much in the film of just like, quit being gay dude. Like, he's very much the guy that, you know, jokes with Harold a lot and about that. And then literally a few years ago, Kal Penn, like, came out with like his partner and whatnot. And it's like it has all those moments have just much different context now that he was just like, you know, pretending like that, pushing it really much harder than he was. And yeah, on top of that, just like. Yeah. With his activism as well as the fact that, like, you know, every now and again, I think he's shown up on other sitcoms for maybe bitrolls or maybe. I mean, I think you might have forgot about when we talked about it. But like, he's in Smile. He's in the original Smile for a small role.
[00:53:00] Speaker B: Character's like doctor.
[00:53:02] Speaker A: Yeah, he's. He's very. He's a good actor and very much is. I. Yeah, I think he is. He has semi retired. He like, he feels very much semi retired and what he wants interest wise compared to John Cho, like you said, who is just like. I mean, we're a tad biased because he was in a film about our hometown that's actually really good and I really. We both really enjoy it.
[00:53:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:26] Speaker A: And he also, like John chose has been in a bunch of other stuff as well as like Afraid, the AI horror film that Blumhouse released here.
[00:53:34] Speaker B: The Class. The modern class.
[00:53:35] Speaker A: Yeah, but like. Yeah, and it's also the fact that it's like when they shot Harold and Kumar go to White Castle, they're supposed to be like, 22, 23.
[00:53:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:53:45] Speaker A: And they're like in their late 20s. And then when they shoot Harold and Kumar's 3D Christmas, they're like, nearly in their mid-30s. And if they do one now well into their 40s, Jon Cho is 52.
[00:53:58] Speaker B: He's 52.
[00:54:00] Speaker A: And Kal Penn is. Yeah. Just a few years younger. So, like late 40s. So, like, if anything, if. For some reason, if, again, if Hurwitz and Schlossberg are like, we can make a fourth film. But it's like Harold and Kumar's Kids and we can make fun of legacy sequels. Like, if that's something. Sure, they could probably find a way to get them back involved, especially if NPH gets put on there. But like, yes.
[00:54:25] Speaker B: Or they make a film about Tom Lennon and Amir.
[00:54:30] Speaker A: God, talk about throwing money away. Yeah, but. And I. Again, Tom Lennon is a very funny guy and Amir is very funny in those Jake and Amir bits. They are not meant to be put together in this movie. They just don't have a lot to work with.
Just says Tom Lennon going, my baby. And Amir just being mainly naked for the majority of the film, like underwear. But his whole thing is he wants to have sex with the virgin. That is literally eight mirrors Adrian character. That's all he wants to do. Which I bet is like, what makes him, you know, such a great character that we have to.
[00:55:08] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
[00:55:10] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's just like. It's very much.
I didn't have high expectations going back into this one. I've only seen this one once before for this podcast. And so, like, going into that, because again, I'm not saying that the other two films are shot incredibly well in places, but I think this is the worst looking one of the three of them to. To a degree, because I think. I think Guantanamo Bay does have some kind of rough spots in terms of what. How it shot.
And again, White Castle is low budget enough that it can get away with kind of the scrappiness at times, especially how, like, most of that film is just a shot of Harold and Kumar in front of trees or in a car.
[00:55:54] Speaker B: Yeah, well. And maybe. Maybe this is just. I don't know, maybe this is nostalgia for the 2000s talking, which I don't tend to think I have a lot of. But, you know, I think there's Something to be said for, as we moved into, like, the 2010s, it feels like cheaper movies, lower budget movies start to look more, like, generically polished. Like, you could say. You could say that very Harold and Kumar. Christmas looks more polished than the first two, but it kind of lacks that, I don't know, character or flavor of a low budget, early 2000s movie. Well, it's got the kind of texture to it.
[00:56:47] Speaker A: It's got the motion blur of like a 2000s Michael Mann film.
[00:56:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:56:51] Speaker A: Like.
[00:56:52] Speaker B: And like, a lot of the locations are these really kind of glitzy, glamorous locations. And you're shooting it really flatly. And, you know, the three. The 3D gimmick shots don't really help. They kind of add to that, like, you know, facade of big budgetness, that very digital look, too. But, yeah, it kind of. It definitely feels like, oh, I think this was released theatrically. Right. Or was it just okay? Yeah, but it kind of feels like it could be like a VOD release.
[00:57:33] Speaker A: Which I think says everything, which I think very much like, visually it says, like, that was not one of the things they were trying to really push on is just like, how.
[00:57:43] Speaker B: Which is, like, fine. I mean, now, again, nobody expects a Harold and Kumar movie to look.
[00:57:48] Speaker A: But even so, the way that it looks is still kind of shocking of just like this high motion blur. Very flat in a lot of places. Which, again, the flatness does make sense in a 3D sense because that's easier to kind of incorporate 3D to certain scenes. But even so, like, just the. The emotions of it, too. And the fact that, like, out of all three of these films, hilariously, there are like, plot lines and characters in this film that don't really get tied up anywhere or just kind of, like, disappear.
[00:58:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's kind of so many characters at this point. And it's like, yeah, don't really need this many characters in a movie about Harold and Kumar.
[00:58:26] Speaker A: No, the Ukrainians really don't need to be in this movie.
[00:58:30] Speaker B: No, the Ukrainian.
[00:58:30] Speaker A: Ukrainian mafia or whatever.
[00:58:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Danny Trejo is given, like, nothing funny to say, but is expected to be funny in all of his scenes.
[00:58:40] Speaker A: I do remember his poster because they gave. They gave him a character poster when they, like, announced all the films. And he just, like, sitting. Standing in front of two, like, intimidating guys and they're all wearing Christmas sweaters, I think, is what it is.
Because Danny Trejo's character loves. Okay, again, there are stuff similar to kind of Guantanamo in a way. There are stuff, like, described are Pretty level, funny. Like in terms of just like Danny Trejo's whole thing about Christmas is that it's not only like one of his favorite holidays, but it's like his mother's favorite holiday. And she was unfortunately killed years ago by a bunch of Korean gang members. And of course it honestly a great choice. All the Korean gang members are played by Jon Jo.
And it's like, okay, that's goofy. That's. That feels like.
[00:59:30] Speaker B: Sets up the. The tension between.
[00:59:33] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. But yeah, on the Kumar side of things, it very much feels.
Yeah. There's just. It's. It felt very bare bones in Guantanamo with what you should really. What else he could do with these characters. And they're just go. I don't know, give Kumar a girlfriend. And then in this it's like, I don't know, they want kids and they want to reconnect.
[00:59:52] Speaker B: Yeah. But they've, but they've broken up and so we have to add that fold to it. And also Harold and Kumar have broken up and we have to reconnect them.
[01:00:03] Speaker A: And it's, it's all. And it's just like. You always do this, Kumar. Like, it's all these kind of things where it's just like. Okay.
[01:00:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Suddenly they're very resentful of each other and.
[01:00:11] Speaker A: Yeah. And Harold invites everybody but Kumar to like his Christmas party, which is like. Okay. Like, it is.
[01:00:18] Speaker B: Yeah. It's also. It's also like a New York Christmas movie.
When like the first two movies, I don't remember them being set in New York at all. They're in Jersey.
[01:00:28] Speaker A: They're in Jersey.
[01:00:29] Speaker B: Okay. But it's not like we're spending time in the city.
[01:00:32] Speaker A: No. No.
[01:00:33] Speaker B: And then this movie is very much like classic New York Christmas type shit.
[01:00:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Because the first film they talk about how there's not a White Castle in a certain amount. Like the Jersey area, which is later on the east coast.
And doesn't really matter because there's. It's mainly forests you all you made on the road in the first highway. And then in Guantanamo.
[01:00:53] Speaker B: They're in the South.
[01:00:54] Speaker A: Yeah. They're trying to get to Texas.
[01:00:56] Speaker B: Alabama.
[01:00:57] Speaker A: Yeah. They run into a KKK meeting.
And then. Yeah. This is the first one where it's like, yeah, we knew they lived in New Jersey, at least in the first film. But like. Yeah. Now it's a full blown. It's New York. Look at all this. It's the most wonderful time of the year.
[01:01:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:01:17] Speaker A: It's fine. It exists again. Like it's. It's not even trying. I'm not even trying to be mean to the movie. It's just. There's not really anything to bring the film up on or really. Or hate the film about it. Just kind of.
It. You buy the three pack just to get the first two films and the third one's just there.
[01:01:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, yeah, I.
I found this one pretty insufferable at times, but ultimately it's just kind of like a.
It's another Harold and Kumar movie that doesn't quite have the juice.
[01:01:55] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:01:55] Speaker B: And so it's kind of like, you know, it's. It's a movie that's going through the motions of being a Harold and Kumar movie, unfortunately.
[01:02:03] Speaker A: Mm. Which I mean, makes sense again, I think it's like it. Raunchy comedies. I don't mean to go this. I know that like the American Pie franchise has an ungodly amount of films.
[01:02:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Like 13 or something.
[01:02:20] Speaker A: Yeah. And National Lampoon is still making films as well every now and again. Even though national doesn't really exist.
[01:02:28] Speaker B: Even though don't realize it.
[01:02:30] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's just like very much so. Like, yes, if something's popular and you have enough people who are interested, make a sequel. But the thing about comedy sequels is that you either do the same shit again and you basically just kind of make people go, ahaha. That's funny. I remember that from first movie. Or you go. You commit to something else and risk just completely losing people on it.
[01:02:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:02:58] Speaker A: And I will admit again, there are moments where it's like all the two sequels do, you know, stick to their guns pretty much. Like. I mean, the second film literally basically takes the beat for beat of the first film just. Just changes it just enough and makes it just that much more outlandish to make it stand out in places. And then like in three, there are bits where it's like. I don't think anyone watching the third one thinks that the Christmas Story pole scene is gonna lead to Harold getting his dick stuck on a frozen pole.
[01:03:29] Speaker B: Right.
[01:03:30] Speaker A: So like, of course there are bits where it's like, hey, this would probably be funny. And then that's kind of. But that's kind of it. There's not really much funny idea.
[01:03:37] Speaker B: And they don't really find the actual joke.
[01:03:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Clay. Claymation. That's raunchy. This. That's raunchy.
The funny joke is that the virgin is dad is the head of the Ukrainian mafia in New York.
[01:03:51] Speaker B: Right.
[01:03:51] Speaker A: Things that are like, okay, whatever. Like, I don't. Yeah, I can definitely See what. Can you remember what the most insufferable part of the film is to you? Because I understand why it's insufferable to you.
[01:04:06] Speaker B: I don't know. I think, I think it was kind of just an overall. Just the way the film was written. It kind of felt like, okay, we've sort of, sort of aged out of this. And so we're trying to remind the audience what raunchy comedy is. So we're just going to say really foul shit whenever we can.
[01:04:25] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:04:25] Speaker B: And hope that it's funny. I mean, that's kind of every joke in the film is just like, what if we say fuck? Or what if we give a baby cocaine?
[01:04:33] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, again, to put into, like, you know, to put in perspective what a raunchy comedy kind of was at that time before, like 2004 is around the time we're like, I know we just brought him up, but it's. It actually is. It's pertinent to the conversation. Todd Phillips did Road Trip was a few years before that. By the time this has come out, Hangover Part 2 is like coming out, if not already out. Hangover 1 has kind of reached like, you know, change the idea of what a raunchy comedy is already. Much so after, like, you know, in 2007, when super bad changes the idea of what a raunchy comedy could be, where you could be a raunchy comedy and still be a character piece that is, you know, emotionally resonant and still be foul mouthed. And so you get to the point with this where it's like, like you said. Yeah, it's just, it's doing what you think this movie is supposed to be doing, but it's about seven years after when it probably should be doing it.
[01:05:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And of course, like by the 20, by the early 2010s, you know, we're kind of seeing that aging of the genre elsewhere too. I mean, a year before Harold and Kumar Christmas, we get another Todd Phillips movie in due date, which at that point we're just. We're just remaking Planes, Trains and Automobiles.
So, yeah, you're kind of seeing the evolution of the raunchy comedy genre.
[01:06:03] Speaker A: What Andy is trying to say is that if Todd Phillips had directed a very heralding Kumar Christmas, it would have been better.
[01:06:09] Speaker B: Yeah. Harold and Kumar Foley.
[01:06:11] Speaker A: Well, you do.
It's such a cheap joke, but it's hard not to use it. But yeah, that's the Harold and Kumar trilogy. I mean, yeah, I know we didn't really talk much about the Christmas stuff, but you think about Christmas in a nutshell and just think about Harold Kumar on top of that. And it's basically Christmas. That's the base of the movie. Christmas music you've heard before. There is a Santa bit. The Santa part of it is very silly and stupid in a way that I think is like, okay, that's fine.
[01:06:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:06:40] Speaker A: But yeah, it is very much like just a film that's trying to capitalize on 3D, capitalize on the Christmas season as well as capitalize on what little is left of interest in another Harold and Kumar movie.
[01:06:53] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:06:54] Speaker A: And so you have a trilogy that has a strong start, a solid sequel, and then a nothing burger of a final film that, you know, if you love the first two and you haven't seen this one, give it a shot. But don't be surprised if you're just kind of like, ah, seen this before.
[01:07:10] Speaker B: Right.
[01:07:11] Speaker A: And.
[01:07:11] Speaker B: Oh yeah. Oh, I have to. I'm obligated to bring this up, otherwise my wife will be mad at me.
[01:07:18] Speaker A: Oh, I love this already.
[01:07:20] Speaker B: Well, I was going to. I was going to mention it when we were talking about how Kal Penn came out as gay and was kind of becoming more of a social activist and that sort of thing.
In 2020, 2022, Emma took a trip to New York.
[01:07:40] Speaker A: That's rhyme.
[01:07:41] Speaker B: During the Pride Parade.
And actually crossed the street. She walked a crosswalk with Kal Penn. He was right next to her at the intersection and they just like made eye contact and she nodded at him and he was like, thanks for not blowing up my day. And they walked across the street together and that was it. And she said he was really short.
He was a completely non descript interaction. I think that's the way he wanted it.
[01:08:12] Speaker A: Well, good.
[01:08:13] Speaker B: But he was at Pride. So cool.
[01:08:15] Speaker A: She probably. He probably looked at her and said, not a White Castle fan. Probably a house empty fan, if anything. Yeah, good. Yeah, I remember that. I remember her freaking out about that. When you go, yeah.
[01:08:29] Speaker B: So I had to mention that because that is. I'm.
[01:08:33] Speaker A: You're obligated. I'll let her know.
[01:08:34] Speaker B: 1. One degree from Calpin or is that two degrees?
[01:08:39] Speaker A: Well, at 22, because you're one degree from Kalpen and then didn't you show up in the background of Columbus, the. The John Cho film?
[01:08:46] Speaker B: I did not.
[01:08:47] Speaker A: So you're two years, so you're technically probably one degree away from him. Because we did have friends who were kind of.
[01:08:53] Speaker B: Yep. Our friend Adam met John Cho.
[01:08:56] Speaker A: Yes.
[01:08:56] Speaker B: And of course. And he actually John Cho came into my place of work on my first day off in, like, three weeks. I worked every day for three weeks, and then I took a day off. And then John Cho was shooting that. The film Columbus in our hometown, Columbus. And he came into the menswear shop that I worked at while I was not there. I was so.
[01:09:18] Speaker A: That's awesome. That's. Oh, God.
[01:09:20] Speaker B: And it was a. It was a quiet day. He came in alone. Nobody else was in there. If I'd been there, I could have. Could have chatted him up. Yeah. I could be in Hollywood now.
[01:09:32] Speaker A: You could have said, I really love that you brought milfs into the forefront of our culture. And he would have hated you immensely.
[01:09:40] Speaker B: And I would have saluted him.
[01:09:43] Speaker A: But, yeah. Merry Christmas, everyone. That is the Harold and Kumar trilogy.
And we have one more trilogy left for the season. And speaking of Christmas, it pertains to a Christmas release. A very. A very highly anticipated Christmas release for both of us, especially for people. It's not even just for both of us, but people who really like this director's other work. Because in honor of the Christmas release of Nosferatu, we will be tackling the first three films of writer, director Robert Eggers. We are finishing off 2024 with the rise of Eggers, which is, in case you don't know, the Witch, the Lighthouse, and the Northman.
[01:10:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's a little bit crazy to think about this one as a Rise of trilogy, even though it literally is, because he's only made three movies.
Just because Eggers has so quickly become such a big name and a force in the movie world, and each of his movies has had a lot of hype around it.
[01:10:57] Speaker A: I would probably argue.
[01:10:58] Speaker B: Even though he's only made three.
[01:10:59] Speaker A: Yeah. I would argue that his. Especially the Witch or the Witch, the Vitch that we have. People would talk about it. I would say the witch is one of the pillars of the idea of the A24 film.
[01:11:15] Speaker B: Yes.
[01:11:15] Speaker A: So the fact that his first film is that. Yeah.
[01:11:20] Speaker B: Exemplifies the modern prestige horror.
[01:11:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And I actually just. We'll talk about it, too, when we talk about the episode, but I just wrote a article, a Cinema Komorebi article about the witch. Because the witch is, I guess, maybe a spoiler or not one of my favorite horror. Modern horror films. It's not one of my favorite horror films ever made. And so I'm excited to talk about that. But on top of that film, we'll be talking about Willem Dafoe and Robert Pattinson going crazy in a Lighthouse and then Robert Eggers highly just huge budget, just Norse epic that absolutely went over a lot of people's heads and bombed. But not because the movie's bad. And we will get into that when we talk about that as well. But that'll be December 28th. So it'll be after the release of Nosferatu. And I think we will actually probably do a recording kind of talking about our reactions about Nosferatu at some point.
[01:12:19] Speaker B: Yeah. Some kind of coverage of that. Yeah.
[01:12:21] Speaker A: I mean even if we don't do a specific video on Nosferatu, there's a good chance we're both hoping that it'll be on our best of list of the year. So we'll talk about it inadvertently in some way, shape or form. But yeah, tune in on December 28th when we talk about the rise of Eggers to finish off 2024. But as always, I'm Logan Sowash.
[01:12:41] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr.
[01:12:43] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.
