Episode 133: The Rise of Shinkai

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:19] Speaker B: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Spider Man Brand New Day podcast. Now that it's made, as of our [00:00:25] Speaker A: recording, sponsored by Bureau. [00:00:27] Speaker B: Actually, probably by the time this episode comes out, it'll probably have made a billion and a half dollars, 1.5. By that point, yeah. [00:00:37] Speaker A: Tom Holland will have become the world's second trillionaire. [00:00:40] Speaker B: It's crazy to think that. [00:00:42] Speaker A: Mostly from Bureau sales. [00:00:43] Speaker B: Yes, that was. Honestly, listen, I gotta be honest here. If you had any kind of brand. [00:00:50] Speaker A: Oh, I didn't mind it. I just think it's funny. [00:00:52] Speaker B: It was funny to see that. But especially when it turns out that alcoholism was in fact the villain in Rainy Day. Thank God for be. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Soas. [00:01:07] Speaker A: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:01:07] Speaker B: And on Odd Trilogies, we take a trio of films where they're tied by cast and crew thematic elements or just numerical order, and we discuss the good, the bad, and the weird surrounding them. And today is not, in fact, a Spider Man Home trilogy episode or anything like that. Just kind of, in fact, I didn't even tell Andy I was doing that. I just thought, you know, why not [00:01:26] Speaker A: bring up the fact that I feel betrayed? [00:01:29] Speaker B: In less than a week, a Marvel film, you know, a brand that constantly is told will never make, in fact, made money again. Because Spider man is, of course, the most popular thing, most popular superhero in the world. But today actually is our final episode of August, which marks our sixth anniversary of the podcast. And we thought in honor of August, these last four months, we've been basically taking episodes that we were just doing trilogies that we've been wanting to do for a little while and thought it'd be fun, but didn't really have any tie to it. The first episode being the Millennium Hamlet trilog, the second being the James Dean trilogy. And then of course, this trilogy, which is one that is not tied to anything in particular, coming out soon because we actually don't know when this director will have another film out, even though he's a little. Usually with his track record, he is long overdue at this point. But before we hear any kind of announcement of what he does next, we are discussing today the rise of Makoto Shinkai, who is also known, in case of just some critics, call this trilogy the Natural Disasters Trilogy from Makoto Shinkai, which, in case you don't know, Makoto Shinkai is a Japanese director. His name is Makoto Nitsu, but he goes by Makoto Shinkai. And he's born February 9, 1973. And from the span of like the early 90s to let's say, 2015, he mostly like he started out doing shorts, but then in the early 2000s did an ova called Voices of a Distant Star and then did films. My phone went on sleep mode before I could look up the Just because I want to get it right. Voices of a distant star in 2002, which is a science fiction sci fi ova. And then he also did the Place Be Promised in Our Early Days in 045 centimeters per second in 2007, Children who Chase, Lost Voices in 2011, and the Garden of Words in 2013. But those films we're not talking about today because we're gonna be talking about the three films that have truly, I think, broke the barrier in terms of his popularity in the cultural zeitgeist, a [00:03:40] Speaker A: name the world over. [00:03:41] Speaker B: It's funny that you say name, because the three films we're talking about today are 2016's yous Name, 2019's Weathering with youh, and 2022's Suzume, his last film. As of right now, as we're recording, there have been rumors that Shinkai is in development of another film, a big film apparently, but he has not said any other details other than it's huge and that there's no title. So we thought it'd be fun to talk about this because one of the films in particular in this trilogy is your Name is a favorite of mine and Andy had not seen this film yet and he had heard me talk about it for the longest time because in case you may or may not know, your Name is the was the first Japanese animated film to push Spirited Away off of the most GROSS in the U.S. for an anime film. [00:04:35] Speaker A: Right. [00:04:36] Speaker B: It was the first film in over 50, like a decade at least. [00:04:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:41] Speaker B: To push a Ghibli film off that and not being tied to anything in particular, it's not Ghibli affiliated. It's not affiliated with anything else. It is just Shin Kai using his production company, Comics Wave Films, and basically on, I believe a 7 million dollar budget, grossed a little over 400 million in the U.S. yeah, it was such a big film in Japan when it came out that it actually, I believe, at least for the longest time, beat Star wars the Force Awakens at the box office when it got its Japanese Japanese release and honestly held the title for most profitable, you know, anime film in the US until about 2020, 2021, when a certain demon Slayer film about a demon train came out. But yeah, it is it's kind of been a long time coming because Shinkai is somebody that I really like. [00:05:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:34] Speaker B: And I especially really enjoy these three films in different ways. And I know you had seen Suzume, [00:05:40] Speaker A: I had seen Susume and actually like I think Suzume was the only one I was really even, mm. Like aware of as it was coming out. By the time Suzume came out I had heard of the other two but like when they released they were not on my radar. Yeah. But I've heard people, like so many people over the years credit your name with kind of starting them down their anime journey or their exploration of Japanese film. So like it's. I mean it's. Even if you're listening to this episode and you've never heard of it like this, it was a certified paradigm shift for how Japanese films are perceived and paid attention to in the west for sure. Outside of like Ghibli. [00:06:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Before we get into full discussion of your name and the other films, we don't usually do this. And definitely I'm doing this out of bias because of how much I love this film as well as how much I enjoy the other two films in this trilogy. I'm just full blown spoiler warning as per usual. But I'm bringing this up so early because I am somebody who wants to. To recommend to people out there. I really enjoy all three of these films. I think they're a blast and I think they work their best if you go in as blind as can be. [00:06:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Especially this first one. Yes. [00:06:56] Speaker B: Your name especially. Because despite being such a popular anime film, I have gotten the best responses from people who do not know what the full narrative is. [00:07:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:10] Speaker B: Because the thing about your name, just to give you the basic premise is that it's about a teenage boy who lives in Tokyo and a teenage girl who lives in a town called Itomori in the countryside. Basically for some reason start to swap bodies two to three times a week in the late summer, early fall. And it's basically about these two discovering just through happenstance and through other people talking to them that they are having out of body experiences that they do not remember being a part of. And also find scribblings in their notebooks as if they're talking to somebody else. [00:07:46] Speaker A: Right. [00:07:47] Speaker B: As a passing notes to class to somebody else. When reality, they're just passing it to the person taking over their body. [00:07:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:52] Speaker B: And it being a very much a body swap, I would say romantic comedy drama with some sci fi elements because of that kind of supernatural as well, depending. And that's like the basic premise. [00:08:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:08] Speaker B: Highly recommend it. From this point forward, I would recommend watching that film and then hell, even watching all three of those films. But definitely your name first. [00:08:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:16] Speaker B: Because I feel like with both Weather and Rithu and Suzume, even when we get to the spoiler parts, I do think regardless if he gets spoiled or not in those films, you gonna have to see it to believe it. Because those two films are also incredibly odd and very interesting in how they handle their plots. And it might not sound real the way we describe it. [00:08:36] Speaker A: There's a lot of kind of surreal imagery going on in these otherwise very kind of down to earth stories. Yeah. [00:08:45] Speaker B: But yeah, I was gonna say this is your chance. Pause the podcast for this point. Go watch your name come back. Because from this point forward, we're not holding back. [00:08:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:55] Speaker B: Because the thing about your name that's kind of incredible to talk about is the fact that in my opinion, the reason why I lie, I love this movie so much is the fact that I don't think it's doing anything exceptionally groundbreaking narratively. Even, like visually. It's basically using a lot of tools we've seen in past stories and using them effectively in such just unique enough ways that it feels like this is something special without feeling like it is completely shifting. Because it really, in terms of the anime space, a lot of the stuff it's doing, like the body swap or kind of like the supernatural kind of God, like kind of the ideas of fate and time kind of manipulation and whatnot. Been done before, of course. But the thing is, Shinkai has such a exceptionally vivid, gorgeous eye for a lot of his designs and for his locales and his characters. And even with the editing and just shock composition to the point where it's like it feels like you're watching something you've never seen before. When in reality, body swap has happened in past films before, especially in romantic comedies and kind of fun ideas of this and that. But the big thing with your name is the halfway point. But before we get to kind of talking about that, is there anything you going into it since it was your first time? After years and years of hearing me talk about how much this film is. What were you kind of expecting? [00:10:25] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I don't. I certainly went into this not knowing about the pivotal moment in the middle of the film. I knew it was a body swap thing. Everybody raved about how beautiful the central relationship was. And I say relationship, not necessarily romance, even though there is that kind of element to It. Because it is such an odd and nuanced relationship that these characters share, inhabiting each other's bodies and not really knowing the other person, but coming to know that person very intimately through experiencing their lives. So it's a really cool relationship. And I was. I was. Even before the twist, I was pretty hooked on that. And yeah, like you said, Shinkai's style, I had watched. So I watched Suzume the year it came out. And then I had already watched Weathering with you for this podcast before we watched your name together. And so I was, you know, I was a little bit familiar with. With Shinkai's visual style. And it. I find it kind of hard to describe other than it's like. It's like looking at the regular world around you, except every single thing is beautiful. It's like. It's not a super surreal art style or, like, super stylized or expressive other than it's kind of like every building, every tree, every animal, every car driving by just like, looks really gorgeous. He's really big on light and the way light reflects off of things and, you know, everything's a little bit. It's. It looks real, but slightly. It's, like, turned up a bit. Like the beauty of the world is just turned up. [00:12:20] Speaker B: It's like if your eyes were constantly at like, 4K, high dynamic range, like, at all times. Like, it's very vividness that is like, anybody could really do that. But the fact that he takes time. [00:12:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:33] Speaker B: To really paint. [00:12:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Whereas, like, I mean, I feel like Ghibli or Miyazaki's style is a little bit more, like, easier to pin down in that it's like, you know, very simplified shapes and faces and, you know, kind of a cutesy take on the world. Shinkai's is very meticulous and detailed and in a lot of ways very realistic, but just has that kind of heightened sense of just beauty and stillness and, like, taking in and appreciating the world around you. I mean, every scene in all three of these movies is just like, clearly somebody loves to just, like, sit and watch the world around them. [00:13:20] Speaker B: Yeah, there's. [00:13:20] Speaker A: And turn that into animation. [00:13:22] Speaker B: There's like, even a segment again in this film. All three. Three of these films are gorgeous, but in your name particular, there is a segment in this film where it's almost going into, like, an afterlife, almost like a kind of pool of consciousness of seeing someone's. Like seeing someone's life flash before your eyes. And the way that I can describe it, how it's almost Designed and animated is almost like chalk, basically like blackboard chalk, almost in a liquid form. It's got a scratchiness and a vivid nature. Like, there's almost neon at times in a way that I would remember, like, being a kid and being out on like, a sidewalk playing with, like, that kind of sidewalk chalk and on a blacktop. And it just kind of is fascinating how even when this film is at its most gorgeous, it just finds another way to be like, well, fucking. Okay. [00:14:16] Speaker A: Yeah. It's at the risk of sounding reductive or like pigeonholing this in a way that doesn't. Doesn't work for it. It kind of like his style or these three movies anyway, kind of reminded me of like the experience of a mushroom trip where it's like you're not hallucinating. You know, everything you're looking at is there, but you're just seeing it more. You're seeing brighter colors, you're seeing finer details. And it's like, yeah, any. I'm sure. I'm sure he used to photo references for a lot of stuff, just like environments wise. [00:14:52] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:14:53] Speaker A: Because that's huge in Japan is like photographing a real location and then drawing that as your background kind of. But like, if you were to hold them up next to each other, the real world photograph would look so dull and depressing by comparison. Oh, yeah, because it's just like. It's so. Just perfectly lit and the colors are popping and the details are all beautiful. [00:15:15] Speaker B: Yeah. And again, it's not even saying that, you know, Ghibli specifically Miyazaki, or even, like, I was trying to remember his name, but Mamoru Hosoda's films, who are mostly known for, like, Belle and Scarlet recently, those. Those guys are also incredibly gorgeous filmmakers that find ways to make things really beautiful. [00:15:33] Speaker A: It's just all different styles. [00:15:34] Speaker B: All different styles. But I will say, out of the three of them, Shinkai's just fucking pops immediately in a way that is kind of like, I think in a lot of people's ways, why it was such a paradigm shift for so many people is that your name kind of felt like people's introduction to the idea that Ghibli films are not the only anime films that are worth giving time to. And I think for a lot of people, I mean, at least when it comes to this film, this film. I think a lot of the reasons why I have such a connection to it is because I've seen it so many times. Because this has usually been the litmus test for a lot of people in my life that have loved and still love, but also just like people that I really just want to see. Like, they like movies, they like animation. I'm curious if they're willing to give it a shot and really let it sink in and see if they're really able to kind of digest it and kind of sink to it. Like, it's hilarious. When I think the first time I'd shown someone this film outside of myself, like rewatching it or even like showing my. I think my brother and sister at one point I showed them this film. The one time I kind of. The first time I showed this outside of family was friends of the pod. And also one of them is just, you know, newly married, good old Jake, friend of the pod and friend in real life, as well as Adam, same friend of pod friend in real life when I showed them this film. And the funniest thing is, is that Adam went in with for some reason, thinking that I was gonna show him a Ghibli film. I think with the implication that the only reason why I'd show it to him is because it's Ghibli. And I said, no, this is very much so not a Ghibli film at all. And I still remember him going, what? Why are we watching this? And it's like, well, here's the thing. It's like, it's crazy. Japanese animation has more than a singular director. In fact, crazy to know Ghibli has multiple directors. But it was fascinating watching them watch that film for the first time because kind of had a lot of the same responses that I would show with later with, like, other people, where it's like the beginning of your name is very straightforward in a way that I think a lot of people, especially now, especially how long this film with its reputation. Yes. Where it goes is this. Is this. So this is the film that people talk about when they talk about. This is the big anime film that kind of changed the dynamic because in reality it is for the first 30 to 45 minutes, a pretty straightforward body swap romantic comedy where it becomes about the boy's name is Taki Tachibana, who is basically is a very straight laced, very organized kid who again lives in Tokyo, wants to be an architect when he grows up. And Mitsu. Gosh, Gosh. [00:18:25] Speaker A: Mitsuha. [00:18:26] Speaker B: Mitsuha Miyamizu. Mitsuha Miyamizu. It's Taki Tachibara and Mitsuha Miyamizu, who is a. Basically, she is the grand. She's a Granddaughter of two. Or she's like, she's royalty to a priesthood, a shrine that is so big in her hometown that she, of course, has to do religious duties that are very traditional. Her father is the mayor of her small town and surrounding prefectures, and he is a dickhead, which we'll get into more of him later. And basically is. Is the classic teenager in a small town or a country, you know, who is like, I just want to fucking never be in anything like this again. I want to be in a bustling, bumpy urban landscape. [00:19:15] Speaker A: Right. [00:19:16] Speaker B: And then, of course, she gets her wish and, you know, Taki gets to realize what it's like to be a woman, I guess, in some way, shape or form. Hilariously, it kind of initially, it's. It seems very much like, oh, this sounds like a classic anime thing. But I can't stress enough when the first time you see Taki in Mitsu's body and his first reaction is to touch his boobs because he's like, oh, boo. These are so real for a dream. It's like one of those things where it's like, it doesn't feel sexual at all because it's genuinely just like, what the. This feels way too real. [00:19:54] Speaker A: Would you not do that if you're experiencing that? [00:19:57] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like a teenage boy. I think even as an adult, it would be. It would feel weird, but it also would be like, I don't think I've ever had a dream feel this vivid. [00:20:05] Speaker A: Right. [00:20:06] Speaker B: And so leads, of course. And of course, he is very much more like, yep, these boobs are real. And then when Mitsu is in Taki's body, she's too afraid to even touch his cr. Like, her crotch. When he's like. It's just, like, so funny. And also, you know, we watched all. At least I watched all three of these films dubbed. [00:20:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I was a mix. I was kind of. I watched. So I watched these in this order. Weathering with youh. Susan May. And then your name, which is not really any order. [00:20:39] Speaker B: Yes. [00:20:39] Speaker A: Yeah, just. Just an order. But I watched Weathering with youh fully subbed, because the only one of these that I'd seen previously, Suzume, I had watched subbed in its original language. And so I did the same for Weathering with you. And then when it got time for me to watch Suzume, I was just having. It was a busy day, and I was kind of all over the place, so I started it subbed and then needed it to be kind of easier for me to focus on. So I switched it to dub halfway through and enjoyed the dub. I mean, I already experienced the film subbed and I enjoyed experiencing it in a different language. And then, yeah, we watched your name together, totally dubbed. So I was kind of half and half on the trilogy. [00:21:24] Speaker B: And I've actually never seen your name not dubbed less. Because I don't like the sub. It's more just like. Because I've seen Weather Review and Suzume subbed. [00:21:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:33] Speaker B: I think it's nine times out of ten when I watch your name, it is rarely by myself. It is mostly showing other people. And unsurprisingly, most people are interested. And I would like to watch the version with my language. [00:21:45] Speaker A: Sure. [00:21:46] Speaker B: So it's like, yeah, I'd like to watch it English. And also because the dub is good, I think all three of these films have really good dubs. I like Susan May's. Huh? [00:21:54] Speaker A: No, go ahead. [00:21:55] Speaker B: Oh, no. I also like, at least with these dubs, it does something that I haven't seen before in other dubs where it's like when it comes to musical aspects, like if characters are singing karaoke or singing along with music on the radio, they do it. The dub actors do it in Japanese, which is really fun and something that I feel like. [00:22:13] Speaker A: I really liked that in Suzume, when they're driving in the car into the [00:22:18] Speaker B: radio, Suzume clearly has a lot of classic Japanese needle drops in that very back half of that film. And it's just funny to hear the dub actors sing in Japanese and actually have the care to want to actually pronounce it correctly. But, yeah, but the dub, I think, is great. And of all the clips I've seen of the sub, unsurprisingly, are also phenomenal. But I really like, at least in the dub section, at least for what we saw how the actors do a great job of changing their voice inflections to, like, you know, show the perception that now this is Taki and Mitsu's body, or this is Mitsu and Taki's body. Where, of course, when Mitsu's and Taki's body, she's a little bit more pulled back, a little bit more kind of frightened and closed off. Because she's, you know, as much as she loves wanting to be in Tokyo and, like, live in that life, it's still vastly different than each Mori. So it's like, of course she's still figuring out how things work because things move so much more aggressively and quicker than her hometown. [00:23:19] Speaker A: I really enjoy. I kind of think of it as the like the sort of Kevin Conroy trick with Batman in the Animated Series of how he changes his voice whether he's Bruce Wayne or Batman. I just loved that in this movie how each voice actor would. Yeah, like Mitsuha, when she's in Taki's body would kind of raise or. Sorry, the. The voice actor for Taki, when Mitsuha was in Taki's body, he'd raise his voice. Kind of raise his voice and. Yeah, like you said, pull back. It was almost. You could see it in the animation. Kind of pull himself inward a little bit and. And take up less space vocally and physically. And it was kind of a similar thing with. In the reverse where Mitsuha's voice actor was more flat. Yeah. And like lower effort, lower emotion, almost [00:24:12] Speaker B: like chill or even. What kind of cool. [00:24:16] Speaker A: Sure. [00:24:16] Speaker B: In a sense. [00:24:16] Speaker A: Or like his hockey is such a. Like he. He keeps everything kind of. He's guarded. [00:24:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:22] Speaker A: Like unexpressive. [00:24:24] Speaker B: So he also is very, in very teenage boy fashion, hot headed. When people are being mean to Mitsuha or being like at least talking about her family while he's in her body. Cause like Wataki's voice actor, he adds a weightlessness almost like almost as light as a feather when he speaks. When he speaks. So it has the implication of just trying not to step on any eggshells in the process. While as when Mitsuha's voice actor is trying to portray the Takis in her body, she is like, you can feel that weight when she's pissed. Especially there's moments when Taki nearly gets into fist fights at times in her body and just makes a scene or is just brought out in her body. Which of course leads to all the country boys around her to be uncomfortable because she's so aloof. Gosh, it's so funny when it's. Because again, it's another thing that I think really gets hilarious about since they're both teenagers. The fact that like Taki is just like he just. When he's in Mitsuha's body just like sits and talks in a very chill manner, but also is like constantly having his legs open because he's just like not used to having his legs crossed constantly. And so like spreading basically. Or not wearing bras because he's not even thinking about it and then leads to like all the boys is being uncomfortable that he doesn't give a shit. Then of course with Taki, how like, you know, hilariously, a woman that Taki works with, Otahera or But, you know, the. The woman, she's a few years older than me. [00:26:09] Speaker A: Yes. [00:26:09] Speaker B: She's like basically the. The hot. The hot waitress at the. At the Hive at the very fancy restaurant that Taki works at. When Mitsuha helps her after she has a, you know, run in with, like, a gangster at the restaurant, the. She starts to have feelings for Taki, not realizing those feelings are mainly for probably when Mitsuha is in Taki's body because of the feminine side being coming out more often. It leads to, of course, Taki being more embarrassed that I think Mitsuha is getting him more action than he has ever gotten by himself. And leads to fun little kind of back and forth and gets to the point where they feel like they're. They hate each other, but in reality, they clearly really love the kind of walking in their shoes. Really start to admire. [00:26:54] Speaker A: Very invested in each other's lives and struggles and things. Yeah. [00:27:00] Speaker B: Which leads to a moment where, you know, their lives could go in a place that almost each one of them have set themselves up for. And leads to Taki going on a date with Ododera that Mitsuha basically set up. And Mitsuha has this moment of realizing that, you know, she basically set him up. She could probably, you know, maybe there's something she could do. But in reality, the truth is that in the process of body swapping, they have fallen for each other, unsurprisingly. And because of that, Taki is weird on this date. And not in a way that it's like. It's basically like his date is basically. She's like, you clearly are into somebody else. I can kind of see it in your eyes. [00:27:40] Speaker A: Yeah. He's kind of distant. Yeah. [00:27:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And then that leads to an interesting twist in the narrative when he realizes that that is probably the case as well. He tries to call Mitsuha, and her number is completely disconnected. [00:27:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:55] Speaker B: Which is weird because she put her number in his phone. And also, as this is happening too, both of them are basically doing, like, diary entries to one another in each other's phones. And as this happens, weirdly enough, he starts to kind of slowly forget certain things about her. That basically leads him to use, like, sketches of the architecture around Itomori to basically lead him and his friends, who are trying to help him find Itomori, to find where that town is only to lead to. Which I think is like, one of the biggest parts and reason why I did the disclaimer at the beginning of the episode. Because when most people watch this film, if they're not fully on board by the beginning. Totally understandable, because they probably think it's a pretty standard. What's the big difference here it is this moment in the story where I think it usually makes most people lock in, which is a genuine twist, which is not only is this a body swap romance, this is also a, to a degree, a time travel film. Because you find out in this mix that Mitsuha and Taki have been switching not only their bodies, but also basically, Mitsuha has been jumping three years in the future in Taki's body in 2016. Yeah, well, when any Taki swaps with Mitsuha, he's basically in her town in 2013. Because in October of 2013, a comet that only comes around 1200 years showed up in the sky, splintered off, and killed her and every single person in her town. Yeah, basically split like 500 people. [00:29:36] Speaker A: Yeah. Split apart in the atmosphere, and landed right in the middle of this town, which nobody predicted. [00:29:41] Speaker B: So not only is Taki in love with a girl that is basically because they have seen more of each other than anyone else has seen of their own, but also have become more connected than anyone could be. He also has been connecting with, technically a dead girl. And so the story now becomes. Okay, well, one, how do we even get connected in the first place? To even have this body swap thing happen? Doesn't make any sense. If I've felt like I've been talking to someone this whole time, when in reality I've been talking to someone who's been dead for three years. Two, what does this even mean in terms of how this can happen? Why has it been happening? Is there anything I could do? And three, should I do anything? Is there any way to even fight that fate, the destiny, At a certain point, it becomes is the romance, which feels like was destined to happen because of this body swap. And kind of the time, the timeline of it all, is it also meant to be something that can actually beat fate and actually be able to stop a natural disaster from taking the lives of 500 plus people. [00:30:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:57] Speaker B: And that's what the back half of the film becomes. And it becomes something where I was like, there's a part of me. Because as much as I love this movie, I always wonder if it kind of slows down at the back half. And to be honest, it really doesn't. It really kind of keeps the pacing incredibly consistent. And when it kind of has that mood shift, it does have. This, I think, is a beautiful choice, understandable choice. Whereas for a good chunk of the first half of the film, there is, like, even extended sequences where you are just Mitsuha by herself and you feel like she is a dual protagonist with Taki, only to kinda have halfway through when Taki realizes that she's been dead for three years. You don't see anything from her for a solid 15, 20 minutes. [00:31:43] Speaker A: When Taki realizes she's gone, Shinkai makes you feel her absence, which is cool. And also, I think what helps with the pacing in the back half is we get a little urgency added in there by the fact that they start forgetting each other more rapidly. [00:31:58] Speaker B: Yeah. The diary entries start to go away. [00:32:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:01] Speaker B: So it almost seemed like they literally [00:32:03] Speaker A: delete out of their phone magically. [00:32:05] Speaker B: So, like, their experiences just didn't happen at all. [00:32:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:08] Speaker B: And since, you know, he can't be completely honest about the reason why I love this girl is because I've been in her body for, like, a month and a half, he starts to slowly start to lose it and start to feel bad because he's like, I don't know what to do. And leads to. I think at the first watch, and I was curious about how much of this you caught. It leads to realizing that a lot of the conversations throughout the film, which is like, the discussion of the definition of Twilight and how it ties to what it really means as well as, like, what it's meant in almost a historical, mythological way, in the idea of, like, the magic hour or the golden hour, where it's like this idea that it's like two worlds where it's not day and it's not night. It's almost like it's two worlds. [00:32:57] Speaker A: Two worlds coming face to face as [00:32:59] Speaker B: well as, like, the ideas, like, as Taki's been in Mitsuha's body at times, he is discovering this lore about the Shinto priesthood that she's a part of, as well as, you know, this little shrine that's right outside of Itomori. And like, this. This cavern or like, this crater in a mountain, which basically, you know, talks about, you know, in this. In. In this temple, this little kind of ritual space, if you go in there, the. At one point they said, you know, stories say that if you offer up your most precious thing, you're able to basically see through time or space. Kind of this idea of, like, you can go to the other side, which leads, of course, Taki to go to the crater, try the sake. That it basically has Mitsuha's DNA in it because it's like the classic use of sake, which is basically Just chew up rice and spit it in a. [00:34:02] Speaker A: Yeah, the very container. Old traditional way of making it. Yeah. [00:34:07] Speaker B: Is it kitsumori sake? No, I can't remember what the word [00:34:11] Speaker A: is, but yeah, there's a very distinct word for it. It's literally, hilariously regurgitated. [00:34:17] Speaker B: And again, while we're watching this, I mean, it's not like we weren't asking questions. You weren't talking the whole time. But that was where one of the funniest questions Andy came out was like, would you try that? And I was like, I mean, it's the oldest way to make sake. I'd be very curious if I was trying to connect with someone. Maybe there are other options. But it leads to, you know, Taki finally being able. Leads to the watercolor kind of liquid shock moment that is very fascinating. Which sees Taki going through Mitsuha's life. Also sees that, you know, in that process didn't realize that, you know, back in 2013, Mitsuha actually tried to talk to him, but since he didn't know who she was at the time, he broke her heart by what she thought was ignoring her or at least forgetting she existed, when in reality he had no idea. [00:35:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:09] Speaker B: And then finding out that throughout the film, Taki kind of has like a lucky charm bracelet that's kind of like a braided cord that he doesn't remember where he got it. Turns out he got it from Mitsuha. And it very much is. Their union starts hilariously with this chord. Even though that the time manipulation's all over the place and clearly the core doesn't happen unless they have this whole. Regardless, the union has always been there. And so it leads to basically a last ditch effort from Taki to take over Mitsuha's body for at least a little while, find a way to get the town to get out of Itomori, and ultimately realizing that there's not much he could probably do himself, it might just be better to basically find her again because now she's in his body. And leads to, I think, one of the best moments in the entire film, which is the golden hour scene, which I think is one of the most romantic, sad, beautifully shot. Some. My favorite editing choice is made in that episode, in that moment where it's like it's the first time they finally get to talk to each other in their own bodies, face to face. As time is now in this like flat circle, they're seeing each other because it's, you know, golden hour. And leads to, of course, you know, the last Ditch effort for Taki to be like, it's your turn to make this right. You are our last hope. You're your last hope for you and your town. And so leads to one of my favorite moments where it goes, hey, before we go, let's write our names on each other's hands so in case we forget, we'll at least have that. And he writes in her hand. And before she can write in his hand, it cuts and the pen just falls to the ground. It has this beautiful, swelling music. It's very melodic. The music is great. The music is done by Rad Wimps, who has been around for a very long time. And they basically, if they weren't already popular already by this point, these Shinkai films only made them just skyrocket higher. Because at a certain point, hilariously enough, Eddie even made this remark while we were watching it. It was like. It was like a musical. [00:37:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:25] Speaker B: The film feels like it's perfect for a musical because there's so many Radwim songs that kind of sprinkle throughout the film. [00:37:32] Speaker A: Well, and just the over the vibrant emotionality of it, it feels like a movie where the swells would build into, you know, breaking out in song. [00:37:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And of course, leads to my favorite moment in the film, the one that gets me the closest to cry, even if I don't. Which is, of course, when Mitsuha is at her lowest and she's starting to forget Taki. Because Taki's biggest, you know, his biggest sacrifice to drinking the sake and to get reconnected to Mitsuha is, of course, hurt. His memories of her, of each other. So they just start to slowly go away. And as she's running, trying to save her town, at a certain point, she realizes her hand probably has his name in it, so it would help her realize what she's doing this for. And then, of course, in her hand, it just says, I love you. And that's just fucking. It's so fucking good. The way it hits, the way her hand, like, it's like. It's so dramatic. And I think the best way, it's not overdone. It is on the verge of being melodramatic at times, for sure. But I feel like it does a phenomenal job doing it. I think a great job of what the other two films really discuss, which is kind of this idea of, you know, how we live our lives just as humans during, like, a time of a natural disaster or whether it's ongoing or whether it's a past thing and how we kind of, you know, deal with that kind of trauma and deal with that kind of grief later on as well as, you know, the idea of can you fight fate? Or in the sense of. Is it like almost the idea of the community versus the self? It's like a fascinating thing with all three of these films where it's about the idea that all three of these films have, you know, Japan having such a rich history and a rich mythology in certain kind of practices. All three of these films have these conversations about this certain practice or this certain person or this certain thing has been around for thousands, maybe at least a thousand years. Is it worth risking that when it seems like it's been working so much so far for this? Maybe. Maybe Itomori should have died. Maybe it's just always, always how it's supposed to be. And then having these, like, actors, I mean, these characters who of course are always in high school teenagers, you know, being the next generation that is trying to defy that fate by being like, we have the power to carve her own face. [00:40:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:08] Speaker B: And it's kind of this fascinating thing where it's like, again, the idea that the. The young is rebelling against the old by trying to carve out their own kind of future that's not new in any way, shape or form, but the way that Shinkai, with all three of these films, finds a way to find, like, truly one of the weirdest or like, cataclysmic kind of supernatural event. And having people be like, yeah. I mean, because the big, kind of a big reveal of the film as well is that Mitsuha's grandma basically reveals that not only is the priest been in the family for so long, for generations. It seems like mostly the women who are involved with this at least have had these body swap experiences as well. And then it's like, oh, this is kind of a thing with life, you know, Grandma calls it basically. You know, I remember having dreams like that because it feels very much like a lucid dream kind of state. But ultimately she's like, well, that's just kind of something that happened and it went on, you know, there's nothing really can do about that. [00:41:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:10] Speaker B: And it's like with Mitsuha and Taki, it's like, no, I do not believe that. I think there's something we can do. And leads to the finale of the film being a bit of an epilogue, but also like a true finale where it's now been five years since they basically totally forget. [00:41:30] Speaker A: Yeah, they totally forget each other. [00:41:32] Speaker B: They totally forget Each other, but there are still fragments of each other in each other's heads. Whether it's through Taki's love of Itomori and it's the countryside and it's Shinto, it's all these kind of statues and kind of all these things that he remembers in the architecture and ultimately becomes an architect who wants to believe in building. Like basically building buildings and communities that can last through situations like this. [00:42:04] Speaker A: There's all these parts of themselves that are the direct result of this experience. They just don't remember the person on the other side of that experience, which, you know, is kind of the perfect way to pivot back into the brand new day review that we're doing this episode. [00:42:22] Speaker B: Yes, that'll be the back 90 minutes of this long ass episode. But yeah, basically, yeah, they clearly have fragments because as we find out, Mitsuha succeeds and saves Itomori, but there's no indication as to whether or not she's in Tokyo until you start to realize that probably the fragments that are in her brain are in fact the ones that want her to be in a city, probably particularly in the city where the boy she loves is in but just doesn't know it. And it's revealed to Taki, at least in some way, shape or form that, you know, some things are coming back to life because while he's in a not Starbucks, you can clearly hear and see both of Mitsuha's best friends in high school who are now getting married talking about their wedding. And like clearly you can hear, you can see in his face that he recognizes both of them, even though they didn't go to school together. [00:43:19] Speaker A: Right. [00:43:20] Speaker B: And then also has this great little motif throughout the film that every time Mitsuha and Taki almost kind of pass in some way, shape or form, there's like a bell that rings and like almost like the string that connects both of them is like almost tugging at each other and leads them to have a few moments of just like crossing each other's paths and being like that feels weird. [00:43:42] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a chime noise from Akira. [00:43:44] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, yeah. The reason why Mitsuhad saves the day is because she, Akira slides into her dad's office and he goes, that's really cool. I'm going to listen to you. But no, it ends with them hilariously seeing each other on passing subway, passing trains. And then they just like desperately trying to find each other. And then they end on these like, you know, which I think are now basically the Japanese version of the Joker steps. The Joker stairs In terms of the iconic. [00:44:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:15] Speaker B: Because it's a very specific spot I know exists in Japan. So I'm pretty sure I've seen pictures of people recreate it where they pass each other, and clearly they recognize that even though they don't know each other's name, there is a longing and a love for each other that exists. And they ask for each other's name. [00:44:32] Speaker A: That's it. [00:44:35] Speaker B: It's hard for me to talk about it in a way that is entirely not biased because I've seen this movie so many times and genuinely, I was just thinking about this today, and again, it could be recency bias for rewatching again. But if I. If I redid my letterbox 4 today, maybe I could. I don't know. It's not like anyone. You can do it anytime. [00:44:56] Speaker A: You can redo it every day. [00:44:57] Speaker B: It's so funny. When I did my litter box four years ago, I just assumed you just never touch it. [00:45:01] Speaker A: Yeah, it's your brush. [00:45:02] Speaker B: And then it's literally, Adam seems like he changes it every two. Two weeks. [00:45:06] Speaker A: Some people, like, fill something out with it. They'll, like, write a sentence with it. [00:45:10] Speaker B: It's great. [00:45:10] Speaker A: I probably change mine every six months to a year. [00:45:13] Speaker B: But if I did change it today, I would probably put this one in my four. I think there's something here that is like. I think everything that the medium of at least Japanese animation has to offer, I think you have a lot of that in here. And just in general, I think everything that, like the appeal, the uniqueness in terms of its music, its vibe, the culture being so vastly different than what American culture would be in terms of an animated high school kind of romantic drama. [00:45:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:46] Speaker B: And just like, overall, it just. It feels like even when I show this to people who probably go like, I don't really watch anime, they usually are just fucking in. [00:45:55] Speaker A: They're in it. [00:45:56] Speaker B: They enjoy it. And they go, fuck, that was good. And they're like, is there anything more with that? It's like, have I got news for you. This man's got six other fucking films. [00:46:04] Speaker A: Well, it's. It's a good gateway too, because it's. There's not a lot of what people on the Internet have coined anime bullshit. [00:46:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:15] Speaker A: Just like, you know, really extreme reactions and, you know, hyper sexualized stuff or any of that. It's. It's plays things pretty straight and really feels like a pretty sensitive depiction of two people, like, intimately discovering each other. [00:46:34] Speaker B: I will say, though, this does have an anime opening, which is weird. The only three of the film. Only one of the films that has like an actual anime opening. [00:46:43] Speaker A: And when we say that, we're saying like if you're watching a weekly anime, every episode starts with the like 1 to 2 minute musical intro with credits. And this does that. It like does the montage and everything. And then it's like, oh, okay. [00:46:56] Speaker B: But it's radwimp. So it's great. But yeah, it just. It just has this kind of. It is something where it's like now looking at it now because hilariously enough, again, none of these trilogies this month were supposed to really connect with anything. And we found out with the James Dean episode, It's like the 70th anniversary of two of the films. This year is in fact the decade anniversary of your name. [00:47:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:47:21] Speaker B: And while we were prepping to do this episode, they announced release date for the Steelbook. They're doing a 4K restoration, I think more special features and tied to it because it's just like your name is also this fascinating thing because it's like usually when something like this is as popular as it is, especially in its home country, there would be probably a play. There may be a novelization, which Shinkai did a novelization of youf Name, but released it a month prior. So he has done one before. It's also like 300 pages. Yeah, he also did like a follow up, I think it's called like Earthbound. Like your name Earthbound, which I think follows Mitsuha's friends maybe fills in the gaps between ness. Yes. But like there's not a lot more. Like the closest thing we have, which we'll talk about with a little bit with Weathering with you, is the fact that there are your name characters in Weathering with youh as Easter eggs. [00:48:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:16] Speaker B: Like literally all. Only like Taki shows up in Weathering with youh. Like Taki, Mitsuha and Mitsuha's friends show up in Weathering with you. But Mitsuha. Mitsuha's friends are like a blink and you miss it scene. Like they're, they're. They're important in the narrative. [00:48:30] Speaker A: I did not recall them. [00:48:32] Speaker B: Yeah, well, her friends are on like the, like the Ferris wheel when like they're doing one of the wither girl things, the sunshine girl things. And Mitsuha gives Hodoka, who's the kid in Wuthering with youh, the ring and clearly is wearing a ring herself because she's getting married to Taki. And then of course. But when Taki shows up, there is this hilarious. In Wuthering with youh, when he pops in, it does have this energy of. This guy is clearly somebody because they're like giving him a whole introduction. He's the only side character who's like, either working on a job and Weathering with you. That has more than two lines. And he is not like he's in his early 20s. He's not old and doesn't feel like he's there to give exposition about the weather girl shit or anything. He's there and it's because it just makes sense in terms of the plot of Weathering with you. Bean takes place in Tokyo. Of course, there's probably a chance they could run into Taki. Yeah, yeah, It's a small town, but. But it just. But it's funny just to be like. It's almost like Shinkai is like, listen, I know you could probably just pass by him and not see him, but like, we're already in Tokyo. Why not find. Why not do a little bit and more on his family? Because again, if anything, Taki's family is barely talked about in your name. It's not a real focus. It's more. It's like we get more of Taki's day to day life as well. We get more of Mitsuha's kind of family and her history with the town and whatnot. But yeah, I mean, how did it feel to finally watch it? Did it feel like it fit the hype? Do you feel like you're a little bit disappointed? Were you surprised in places? [00:50:09] Speaker A: No, I mean, I thought it was a really beautiful movie and I was really pleased that so much of it had been preserved for me after all these years. To not have that spoiled was really cool. [00:50:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:26] Speaker A: But, yeah, I mean, and I, you know, I apologize in advance for the. The other two of these movies a little bit. Just that with regard to this episode, I am probably in more of a reactive kind of review mode in terms of the comments I'll have, rather than like a. I'm admittedly and somewhat deliberately a little less researched on this trilogy, I think partly because I knew you were so much already more invested in Shinkai's career than I was prior to this trilogy. [00:50:56] Speaker B: And I think that honestly, at least for me, was an accident. Like, I think as much as I liked your name or like, love your name. Yeah, like, I genuinely was like, I don't, you know, one thing with your name is I never saw it in theaters. It never. I think if it got a release in theaters, it was very limited yeah. So, like, what basically happened was, I think a month before Wuthering with youh came out is when I heard that it was getting like, a January Release. January of 2020. [00:51:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:22] Speaker B: So I was like, well, fuck, I think it'll probably be in theaters for like a weekend. And I was lucky enough to see it then. [00:51:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:28] Speaker B: And then I just so happen to be the guy that is like, well, now I've seen two of his films. I'd love to see whatever he does next. And then, of course, Susan is three years later. [00:51:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:51:37] Speaker B: Gets an IMAX release. And it's like, damn. Well, I got to see that in imax. And then I did. It's kind of. It is kind of fascinating. Yeah. It's like. I think I was just more fascinated by the fact that, like, when we talk about Rise episodes time to time, there might be, like, when we did James Gunn, there's technically maybe a film or two we could technically count as a Rise, but it's more like he wrote it or maybe produced it and has a lot of his style with other Rise Ofs. But with this case, Shinkai had four films before youe Name. But those four films, from what I've gathered, which I haven't seen in full, just like clips here and there, are just as artsy, but also feel very much more melancholic and more just kind of like. Artsy. Yeah, like, very, very. Almost like independent film. [00:52:24] Speaker A: Right. [00:52:25] Speaker B: And not a derogatory. [00:52:26] Speaker A: Well, and there was a. There was a totally different version of this trilogy that we had discussed, which I think you had picked out three of those films pre your Name, which also would have been a totally valid. Yeah, Rise Of. But, you know, I kind of like about our Rise of concept is it's not always like the first three or whatever, you know, or the three before the big one or whatever. It's like Shinkai's in an interesting space in that, you know, your name blasted him to stratospheric heights and that I'm sure he had fans prior to your name and people liked his stuff and his movies. You know, he obviously, he made a lot of movies prior to that short and feature. [00:53:10] Speaker B: But I think all of them were like, at least in Japan, mostly on television or even limited releases. So I think your name was the first bigger release. [00:53:20] Speaker A: Right. But these three really kind of, you know, obviously we're still waiting on his. His fourth film. These three are the only three he's done since kind of becoming the household name that he is now. And so that's interesting to me to, you know, to chart kind of. Okay, well, if you suddenly explode on the scene, then follow that up. What, you know, what does that look like? [00:53:42] Speaker B: And that is the great question. [00:53:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:45] Speaker B: It's like when you have a film that is genuinely so well regarded, it is a. It breaks boundaries in a lot of different places. Becomes like a bit of a cultural phenomenon to a degree where arguably, I genuinely think arguably, if this film leads to better distribution to international animation worldwide. [00:54:07] Speaker A: Because this was G Kids, right? [00:54:09] Speaker B: This was. Why think, at least my first experience with, like, a G Kids distribution. [00:54:15] Speaker A: And now G Kids distributes, like, pretty much everything Japanese and Chinese animation that you see over here. [00:54:21] Speaker B: Japanese, Chinese, I think French as well, Korean. They have all these G Kids has become like, they were the ones picking up the Japanese, you know, in Chinese. Like, the Asian animation that wasn't like, you know, the bigger companies that had Ghibli. And now they have Ghibli and have led to so much more animation, getting a lot more love overall. And, I mean, hell with this year alone, I think they've had, like, four or five releases. Yeah, we actually saw one of the early ones, all youl need is Kill in, like, January, February. And they have, I think, literally just one got put on demand as we're recording this. Another World, which apparently is Hong Kong's most. [00:54:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I watched. I got a screener of that from gq. [00:55:02] Speaker B: Oh, nice. [00:55:02] Speaker A: Yeah, months ago. [00:55:03] Speaker B: I unfortunately. Oh, was it good? [00:55:05] Speaker A: It was okay. [00:55:06] Speaker B: Okay. Because I unfortunately missed the window. Yeah, sent it to me, too. [00:55:09] Speaker A: And I was, like, visually very cool, which is why I wanted to watch it. And then. Yeah, but went over my head a little bit. [00:55:15] Speaker B: Fair enough. But, like, your name being as big as it is and people are being like, don't even think about adapting it or even trying to smear the beauty that is this fucking film. Don't even touch it. And even though there technically is still an American adaptation in development, I don't think it'll ever go anywhere because it's been in development for probably 6, 7. [00:55:37] Speaker A: JJ Abrams, still technically a talent. [00:55:39] Speaker B: I think it's a Sky Dance bad robot film, but the directors have changed, I think, three or four times. [00:55:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:45] Speaker B: And so are the screenwriters. And to be honest, just let it die. It's not. It doesn't. I mean, if. If. No, I can't even say if. I can't even fucking pretend. Like, it's, like, don't. Like, it's. If it's taking this long to not do it. Like, if we're at a point where it's the 10th anniversary of your. And you're just like, still can't think of a way to make it work. In an American. Yeah, like in an American sense. Then don't. Then don't do it. But you have this kind of big hype around. All right. Like Andy said, when you have something that is as big as this film, what do you do next? What he does next, I would argue is probably the weakest of these three films. [00:56:24] Speaker A: Sure. [00:56:25] Speaker B: But I would say is just as beautiful at times, has great emotional moments, is very fascinating with how it goes from. There's no body swap. He's not doing body swap. Again, it's not a body swap romance. It is a film about a kid who is a runaway from his small island in Japan, going to Tokyo, running away from his family and friends and would rather be homeless than be back home. And ultimately runs into a girl and falls for a girl who ultimately has the ability to control the weather in some way, shape or form in a world that is, in a climate sense, not very great. It's consistently raining, constantly raining, every single day. Because the environment fucking blows. Because, you know, climate change. Can't really get into that right now until we want to talk about that for another 30 minutes. But, like, it's. Clearly the environment is getting worse and it means that, like, at least in Japan, things are getting wetter and floods are happening more often. And this boy just so happens to find the one girl who could bring sunshine to somebody's day. [00:57:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:36] Speaker B: And leads him to, you know, when she's down on her luck and doesn't really have anything to do because she just lost her job at McDonald's. Which is true. The film going from film has the [00:57:49] Speaker A: most beautifully rendered McDonald's in cinema history. [00:57:52] Speaker B: The thing about Shinkai, and I was saying it last time we were watching your name together with Emma, is that it doesn't matter how full I am when I watch a Shinkai film, when I start to see the food, I get immediately hungry. Yeah, his food looks delicious. Including the tastiest looking Big Mac I've ever seen in my life. It is again, yes. Product placement. Like, clearly Shinkai is now at the point where he has the budget where he can just fucking go ham on product placements. And because again, it's Tokyo, so it's like immensely dense with companies and advertising technology. It's hard not to. [00:58:31] Speaker A: No hand drawn bureau. [00:58:32] Speaker B: Interesting. Maybe the next film. [00:58:35] Speaker A: Okay. [00:58:37] Speaker B: God. [00:58:38] Speaker A: Starring Tom Holland in the dub. [00:58:39] Speaker B: Honest to God, Tom Holland's got a good voice. I'd like to see him branch out. And even though he's now. He was already shackled to Spider man, but now he's got two shackles on. [00:58:48] Speaker A: If all the Ghibli films weren't dubbed by now already, I think he would probably be a go to. Oh yeah. For the next one, you know, I guess. [00:58:58] Speaker B: Yeah, I could definitely. If he was. Yeah, he was. He could absolutely. If they had caught him like during the impossible years, like when he was late teen. [00:59:05] Speaker A: Oh, sure. [00:59:06] Speaker B: Like if, like he could do Howl's Moving Castle, he could do Motonoke. [00:59:10] Speaker A: He's got a young enough voice too. He can still do those younger roles. [00:59:14] Speaker B: Well, if you want that. If you want to hear his younger voice, he plays the dog and dolittle. So with weathering with you, it is kind of like this very straightforward. The supernatural kind of aspect being that she is a sunshine Girl. She is kind of like this almost this weather maiden who is known to basically historically, mythologically, Weather maidens used to be almost in every community. Now in modern day, it seems like there's only once every so often they're [00:59:45] Speaker A: just on Etsy and you have to. [00:59:46] Speaker B: To pay them to especially the necklaces and whatnot. But it basically is, you know, as the process of, you know, kind of monetizing her ability to make the sun happen. They have the sunshine come out for a little while, comes a little business. [01:00:02] Speaker A: This is like the ultimate kind of kids lemonade stand fantasy absolutely explodes into this big operation. [01:00:10] Speaker B: I think the one thing that throws a lot of people off about this film, especially the first time watching it, which you can either attest or disagree if you want, is that a lot of the film is a lot of it is also about these child characters, these children doing very adult things because they believe this is what they need to do to seem mature and adults. [01:00:30] Speaker A: Yeah, it's trying to fit into the adult world. [01:00:32] Speaker B: So of course with Hina, who is the main girl, who is the weather, who's the Sunshine Girl, she very much talks about the lead Hodoka as a child or she takes care of her younger brother in their own apartment and makes. Makes food for them and has this kind of implication that she is an adult because she is the provider. In a sense. Hodoka sees it in terms of being in a very masculine way, seeing himself as an adult by also providing for himself but also not taking any shit when he's given shit. Which leads to probably one of the wildest subplots that I think I've seen in a Shinkai film so far which pertains to early on the film. There is a news announcement. There's a news report that there are 18 guns missing. Oh yeah, we don't know where those guns went, but like very strict gun laws in Japan. Hodaka accidentally finds a gun in a trash can. One of those guns. He discovers it while at a McDonald's. [01:01:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:36] Speaker B: While eating clam chowder at a McDonald's. [01:01:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:38] Speaker B: This is again, when I said like, even if you haven't seen this movie, that just sounds like that doesn't exist. But that in fact happens. [01:01:46] Speaker A: Then he gets antagonized by some. [01:01:48] Speaker B: He gets antagonized by the guy that beats him up earlier in the film that leads to him fighting that guy. [01:01:54] Speaker A: Just a neighborhood bully, I guess. [01:01:56] Speaker B: He's kind of like. He works at a girls club. [01:01:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:59] Speaker B: A nightclub. And he thinks it's a good luck charm and it's a toy that can like show like basically give him this kind of sense of power that nobody will mess with him until he finds out that it's a real gun. And he nearly kills somebody when he pulls the trigger and an actual bullet comes out. Leads to him throwing that gun away because he's just. Because again, gun violence is real gun. It's trauma for firing a gun. It could be generally real. Especially if you're like a fucking 15 year old who's never done anything like that before. [01:02:29] Speaker A: Especially in Japan. [01:02:30] Speaker B: Especially Japan. [01:02:31] Speaker A: Much harder to come by open carry [01:02:34] Speaker B: unless you're a cop. And then even that leads into this kind of like a smaller kind of subplot where there are police trying to look for him and realize that he's a homeless kid and they're trying to discover whether or not he might be a gun mule for like why these. Like maybe he's bringing guns to place. Or he just might know who the people stole the guns were when in reality he just found it. [01:02:55] Speaker A: Right. [01:02:55] Speaker B: There's nothing to it. But it leads to a lot of the drama later on in the film where it's basically they're trying to find him because they think, you know, he has more of an answer than he actually has because he doesn't really even have the gun for most of the film. It's like after. After he shoots it once, he feels so ashamed and scared. [01:03:12] Speaker A: Yeah, pretty much. [01:03:13] Speaker B: Yeah. That he could have ditches it immediately. And then of course it comes back later when he's trying to basically feel like to sacrifice his own life. He needs to use this gun in order to scare and or hurt people, in order to save Hina, when she basically makes a sacrifice herself. [01:03:32] Speaker A: And then he finds out that the bullets actually died three years ago and he's got to go chambers empty. [01:03:38] Speaker B: He has to drink bullet sake to [01:03:40] Speaker A: get her back to eat gunpowder. [01:03:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Again, it is. The thing I give Shinkai a lot of props for is that the film takes a lot of the same. Like I talked about kind of this generational conversation of community versus self and kind of trying to carve your own path even when the world feels like it's all hope is lost and being able to fight against, at this point, fight against the rain to find some sunshine at the end of the. Like, you find some. You find a rainbow at the end of the sun and just kind of like this interesting idea of doing that. But instead of just doing the same thing again, building off of like this old kind of mythology of like the weather and good fortune and, you know, sacrifice and ultimately find a way in a modern sense to kind of play with that, but also just being gorgeous. Because of course, since it's a film about the weather and about rain, it's the prettiest rain I've ever seen in my life. [01:04:35] Speaker A: Yeah, there's a lot of cool, like water. I want to say effects, but they're not really effects. It's just hand drawn or digital water that looks really cool. [01:04:45] Speaker B: A great example, I think, of how Shinkai kind of can stand out sometimes a little bit more than maybe a Miyazaki or Hosoda film is the fact that all three of them deal in the small details. They're all three phenomenal auteurs that have their own styles that's very vivid and care about the macro and micro movements. But there's something about how Shin Kai animates the little moments that you're like, what the fuck? That. That put way more effort into like the reflection of the water. Of course, anytime food is made, it's like, that was clearly two or three months of work at least. It's just like people when they braid their hair, there's such a specific kind of like thing they do with that. [01:05:27] Speaker A: Or is it in your name, where they're like weaving. Yeah, they're weaving those. [01:05:33] Speaker B: The braids. Let's see, like the way that people are walking it. Because for Weather Review, being such a wet film and rain and weather being, I think traditionally kind of almost like a nightmare to shoot in a live action film, it's so fun to watch an animated film. How creative and fun. They use rain in a way that is just like. It's still gorgeous even when it's such an oppressive force on the Tokyo. On, like, on Tokyo inhabitants at all times. It's constantly drenched, but leads to like, you know, anytime it's like so dark because it's raining and leads like all the neons to be popping more. [01:06:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:13] Speaker B: A lot more kind of beauty that [01:06:15] Speaker A: is inflecting off of everything. [01:06:17] Speaker B: Yeah. There's just like. It's. Again, it is. [01:06:19] Speaker A: I find it seems the shafts of light whenever she. The. [01:06:23] Speaker B: When she finds the shrine. [01:06:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:25] Speaker B: When she finds the shrine when her mom is dying is so fucking good. It's so well done. And yeah, the world that's in like this cumulonimbus cloud that is like the other world that has like the dragon and like. Like a. Like a weather dragon and a whale. It's so. It's so daunting, but so gorgeous. And the fact that, like, they fall through the sky so many times and it looks so good. Like. It is Weathering with youh while it is personally my least favorite. [01:06:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:56] Speaker B: I still think it's overall great because of just how much. Especially now that I'm like three or four times in. Because the first time I watched it, I was like, that was pretty good. I feel like there's a lot of things going on that, like, I just couldn't. I couldn't wrap my head around what the intention of the gun or the cops. And then ultimately it's kind of this. I think the film does a great idea of being the constant kind of antagonist of the film, whether you want it to be, you know, the fact that it's weather versus them. Because at a certain point, you know, Hina has to make a sacrifice or believes she has to make a sacrifice to bring sunshine back. She makes that sacrifice. She brings the sunshine back. But, you know, Hodaka wants her to live her. He wants to live a life with her regardless of the rain. [01:07:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:41] Speaker B: Which is again, a beautiful little romantic moment. And it becomes this whole thing about just fighting against the. Fighting against reality, but also at the same time being able to find the things that are worth fighting for, despite the truths where it's like, Hodoka has to go back home. Hina is. We find out later in the film that Hina has constantly said that she's actually about to turn 18. She's about to be an adult. She's actually a year younger than Hodaka, has been lying the whole time. So she's basically been Two minors living in an apartment together, pretending like one of them was a full blown adult when they should be, unfortunately, in the foster care system because they don't have a legal guardian. And so it becomes this thing where at a certain point they can't fight the truth that Hodoka cannot stay in Tokyo. He's gonna have to go back at some point to his hometown because he's a child. He can't stay there by himself. This is not how the real world works. At the same time, though, that doesn't make what they're fighting for any less meaningful and doesn't mean that the sacrifice is not worth what they're fighting for. [01:08:50] Speaker A: Right. Well, there's this, I mean, I think a really sweet and well conceived theme to this film about kind of, you know. Yeah. Facing. Learning to be able to face the harsh realities of the world and not letting that, you know, kind of take away your sunshine in a way. Because, you know, the ultimate fantasy of this film is, you know, okay, we figure out we can control the weather, we can have sunshine when we want. [01:09:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:23] Speaker A: And you know, what they find out is you can't have that forever. That's not how that's gonna work. At a certain point you're gonna have to face the reality that the world is raining. [01:09:32] Speaker B: We did this. [01:09:34] Speaker A: But, you know, but. But the joys and the relationships that that sunshine brought you are, you know, carry on and help you find those silver linings in the. In the kind of darkness around you. Yeah. [01:09:50] Speaker B: I do think the film has a divisive nature to it, mainly because it is shinkai in a sense, making the moment of just saying the world is the way that it is because we did it. Which is entirely true. But at the same time, people hearing that being like, well, I don't need to be preached. And it's like, well, it's barely preaching because it's honestly just stating the fact it's kind of how it is as well as the fact that it also has this conversation about the older generation having, you know, discussing the fact that like, you know, the natural disasters have happened for so long in Tokyo. You know, there's a whole conversation towards the end of the film where like, when Hodoka makes the decision to save Hina so they can live together, the rain never stops and ultimately leads Tokyo to being submerged in certain places. And Lisa's kind of this conversation of did Hodoka do the right thing? When in reality it's kind of this thing of like, it leads to the idea of is it really. That binary that it's like the world. Is the world really doomed because this child wanted to be with the person that he loved, when in reality it's like, not. Not her fault the world is shit. [01:11:01] Speaker A: There were so many other reasons that this is happening to begin with, and [01:11:04] Speaker B: it becomes this thing of, like, they did change the world. But it's, I think, the biggest thing with Hodouken and I think makes it the most romantic part of it, is that he wants to live in a world where it's raining because that world means he gets to live it with her. And they will find whatever that future is together, and hopefully there will be some brightness and some sunshine as they go. And to be honest, it's one of those things where like, yeah, there are some people out there I can understand where it's like, you just. You can't sacrifice one person to have sunshine. I do that in a heartbeat. It's like, yeah, what if it's the one person you love more than anything? Yeah, it's a very dramatic, a very romantic sentiment, but it's still a thing where it's like, yeah, could you really. Would you be willing to, like, live in a world like this so long as you live with the person that you love the most? And it's like, for a movie, that's a fun idea to play with. And I think it very much is in the brand of the guy who made your name. And I think leads to fun discussions that I think at the time when people first saw it, they were like, oh, this movie's so preachy. It doesn't really know where to fall. And it's like, I think Shinkai clearly knows where to fall. Where it's like, it's very gray. There's no real good or bad, no real villains in this film. Similar to your name, your name doesn't really have a villain. The people who were assholes in Weathering with youh are just dickheads. They're not like evil people. At one point, the cops are villains. When in reality, the cops just want to take a homeless boy home and are just like, this homeless boy also might have a gun. Now when they pull guns. When four cops pull guns on a one child, that is. That is. I don't know why you had to be doing that. That's some strong cop behavior that I think you should, like, settle down with. But then again, it leads to some, I think, some phenomenal moments where I think you have great side characters and weathering with you that are a lot of Fun. You have this guy that owns a planning, I think, consulting firm that also writes for an occult magazine, who in the dub is played by Lee Pace and I think does a really good job. He has a niece played by Alison Brie, who's delightful in the film as well. The cast is good in the film and just. Yeah, I think it's. Even if it's. If you watch all three of these, and that is also your weakest one, that's pretty much on brand for most people. [01:13:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:25] Speaker B: But if you love this movie, awesome. I'm glad you do because I honestly have had newfound enjoyment of this film with each new viewing. [01:13:32] Speaker A: So, yeah, it's interesting because I think one of the things that I most enjoy about this movie is also kind of one of the things that holds it back from maybe being great, which is like. Like you said, all of the kind of colorful and thoughtfully developed side characters and subplots. Feels like the movie gets a little sidetracked many times covering all of them. But also, those are all pretty fun and, you know, they don't drag down the movie, but it's kind of more like it's a little less focused than your name or even Susan May. [01:14:11] Speaker B: I mean, the main cop in the dub is played by Riz Ahmed, which is like rad, but also like, you would assume he have a bigger role, and he honestly has an extremely small role in the film. It is a film that feels like it is overstuffed. I think is one of the flaws of the film that I think is compared to your name, which I think probably needed two or three more plot lines to be considered overstuffed. While as with Weathering with youh, I think it's like immediately when it becomes like the first 20 to 30 minutes has the gun, the homelessness, the occult magazine, all really fun things. But also it's like, where is this all going to lead to? It ultimately leads to, like, there are times where once Hina's involved in the story and you find out she's a real Weather Maiden, the cult magazine kind of gets pushed to the wayside until we get a very prominent kind of thing of like, oh, the Weather Maiden is mostly exists for sacrificial purposes to bring great weather. But no, it's. Again, I was gonna say at the end, but I might as well, because I'm thinking about it now. As of recording this, your name and Weathering with you are on HBO Max, while Suzume is on Netflix. So easy. Easier to watch now than I think they've ever Been. And a lot of Shinkai stuff is currently on HBO Max, because I think his G Kids, I think has a deal with Warner Brothers, I think at this point, or at least some sort of deal. But yeah, Wuthering with youh, I think did about 200 million in the states, I think did fairly well, I think. Yeah, definitely wasn't, I think as well received as your name. But I think it was such a highly anticipated film and there's enough to love about the movie at times that I think people were just happy that Shinkai didn't drop the ball on the next film that he made something that was genuinely interesting while flawed. And so it's like, you know, great, Shinkai, you stuck the landing well enough on that second time. What is the next time? And now the final film in our trilogy. The most recent film he's done is probably, I would say the grandest of the three is probably. It is the longest at 2 plus about 215 and is also, I think the only one of these three films that has actually gone on to be adapted into a manga. I think actually is actually a few volume manga. Which makes sense because this film does feel like in a way like it would probably. It could work in a serialized fashion. [01:16:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Which yeah, might even. I mean there's enough going on it would almost, yeah. Support it like a 26 episode show or something. [01:16:48] Speaker B: But the final, the final film we're talking about tonight is Suzume, which is basically a film about a high schooler who lives in Kyushu who basically gets enamored by this mysterious boy wanderer who looks like a Ghibli wet dream in this white jacket and his long blue hair. His name is Sato. In the dub he's voiced by Josh Keaton, who has been Spider man multiple times. He's also Shiro and Voltron, which is how when Rey watched this with me, I was like, you see Voltron, that Shiro, I was like, oh. Basically going, hey, have you seen like a random door by itself? And Susan's like, that's a weird question for a hot guy to ask me, but I don't know. And then she's so enamored by him that she basically tries to follow him. Doesn't get. Doesn't find him, but follows the. The finds the door, accidentally kind of fucks up the process and opens a door to another world and leads to this cataclysmic event possibly happening all across Tokyo. [01:17:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:00] Speaker B: Unless she feels like she has to help Sato go across to go across Japan and shut all of these lone doors that are connected to past calamities that have happened to the country that have led to great tragedy and a great sadness and loss that have led [01:18:22] Speaker A: to manifests as a big worm, a [01:18:26] Speaker B: giant worm, like a world eating worm. [01:18:29] Speaker A: A giant red, angry, not at all phallic worm. No. Yeah. [01:18:36] Speaker B: If you are a nerd out there, especially a Zelda nerd, it kinda looks like Ganondorf a little bit from like Breath of the Wild. Kind of like that color calamity. Like a tentacle. Yeah. And basically Suzume is like, you know, you know what? I might be able to help you with this. In that process, a mystical cat shows up and says, I like you Suzume. I don't like Sato. And he puts, or the cat puts Sato's soul into Suzume's childhood chair. Her childhood three legged chair that her dead mother made for her as a child. [01:19:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:16] Speaker B: And now it is up to Suzume and Sato as a reanimated childhood chair to go across Japan and shut all these doors, find more about themselves as well as basically discover not only probably a budding romance between the two of them. Doesn't matter if he's a chair, he's still hot. But also a coming of age aspect with Suzume. Because I think out of all three of these, each one of these films have coming of age aspects to them. [01:19:45] Speaker A: Oh sure. [01:19:45] Speaker B: But I think Suzume is the biggest one because it's mainly about the protagonist is truly a girl who is the most clean cut, just high schooler who is looking for something bigger or doesn't really know what she wants to do in the future. A very stereotypical, not in a derogatory sense, but very, you know, in, you know, the classic case of just there's something more out there, a little bit of Disney princess in there. Kind of like that classic energy. [01:20:14] Speaker A: And so wanderlust a little bit. [01:20:16] Speaker B: Yeah. And then ultimately becomes like, you know, following entirely instinct by leaving her aunt and her island behind to go do this thing. And then in the process discovering things about her own past as well as her own, as well as her own abilities as well as her own confidence and what she's willing to do in order to not only save the world, but also, you know, find who she truly is. And it's a great time. Like I think it really, it is a very, very. It is stuffed. It is. There's a lot going on. [01:20:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:20:52] Speaker B: I'm very curious to see because there's not. I don't want to Say, pacing issues. Do you think there's pacing issues with this? I feel like there's no. [01:21:03] Speaker A: If it's pacing. I mean, it might be pacing because it's kind of a. It becomes a road movie, but there's a lot of stops on the road. I don't know. For me, it was more my. If I were to kind of pinpoint an issue with the structure of the film, it's more that there's just like. It's kind of a constant pit stop for exposition. Like, you're kind of like, yeah, everywhere you go, it's like, oh, we're learning more about this and that's it. Which is fine. But, like, I think it's done more organically, maybe in. In the other two films or maybe there's just so much it has to cover in this that it feels a little more. Bit more overbearing. But I. Yeah, I don't know that I would call it poorly paced. Yeah, it is long. I mean, it feels. It's two hours, but it feels longer than the other two to put it in perspective. [01:21:54] Speaker B: Because it's something I didn't know because this is probably my. I think of all three of these films, this is only the second time I've seen this. [01:22:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:00] Speaker B: Because I saw it in theaters and imax and then this is my first time at home watching it with a dub because I saw it subbed in theaters. [01:22:07] Speaker A: This is really cool. In imax. [01:22:08] Speaker B: Yeah, it was very pretty in imax, but I think in. And I was very curious about everything I just described about the plot is actually, as a twist, the first half of the film at the hour mark, a little over the hour mark is when basically, quote unquote, the cataclysmic event is averted and Suzume is able to stop this calamity worm from happening by basically sacrificing Sato's life as a totem of some sort to keep it at bay in the other world. So they succeed an hour in. But that leads Suzume to lose Sato. That leads Suzume to realize that, like, you know, a lot of what is happening in this film happened because of her on accident, but still happened because of her. And she feels guilty and feels like she is now cares about Sato so much she wants him back in her life and will do whatever it takes to try to bring him back. And ultimately leads her to go on a mission to find maybe the final door that didn't have to be opened because it didn't have any issue, but is the final Door that actually is tied to her old town that she used to live in before a cataclysmic tsunami happened and not only took out most of her town, but also took her mother from her. And so she basically goes on this road trip with Sato's best friend, who says owes him money. They're both teachers, and they go at his convertible to her old town, as well as her aunt, who ultimately finds a way to catch up to her in Tokyo. And that's when Andy said becomes a road trip movie. And the next hour is basically more family drama, more discovery of self, more trying to figure out she knows the doors in her hometown. But why does she know that? How does she know that that door is actually still there? What is her experience with. Because it basically finds out that what's behind the door is, I think, an otherworld. It's not called that, it's called something else. But basically she can see into that world while no one else can't. [01:24:24] Speaker A: Sully and Mike Wazowski are on the other side. [01:24:27] Speaker B: Yes. But it adds the question of how can you see it but no one else can't? And then ultimately you find out later in the film it's because when she was a child and she was alone and starving. It sounds so sad, but it's true. It's very sad. In this moment, she found that door and thought that was the way to get away and then ultimately just accidentally showed up in the afterlife. In a sense, I think they just call it the afterlife. I think is what they call it. And so that's her experience of why she can see things. And so at least Suzume to be more direct and more active in trying to save Sato and leads her to finding that door and ultimately leading the climax to be heard finding a way to save Sato and be able to find a way to get the calamity worm in check and discover the fact that when she was a child and she was stuck in the afterlife, she thought because it was the afterlife, she had actually saw her dead mother save her by giving her the chair. Almost as if, like, a totem would be like memento, like, remember me through this chair, only to find out that the twist of this film is that that wasn't her. We're doing some real Christopher Nolan timey wimey shit where that's actually an older Suzume reassuring her younger self that everything will be okay. And it's probably the most admitted, probably the most emotional scene where it's basically, you will face a lot of trauma A lot of sadness. But there's so much, so many people you meet, so much good times you'll have. You'll really love aspects of your life that you'll just never. You'll never forget. The thing that, like, I think I like about Suzume so much and I think maybe could be a reason why you hate this film. I'm kidding. Is that it reminds me a lot of my favorite Ghibli films. Is one. One film that Andy and I disagree on. But it's also something that's like. It depends on the vibe. [01:26:23] Speaker A: Earwig and the Witch. [01:26:25] Speaker B: Yes, of course. Who doesn't love Goro Miyazaki? No, but it's Kiki's delivery service. [01:26:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:26:31] Speaker B: Because there's a lot of Kiki's in this film where it's like. A lot of. What makes this film so much fun is that while Suzume and Sato are going across Japan, they are running to really fun characters and nice people who they help and then in turn help them or they just find common ground that help them move on in their story and lead to some really fun kind of little adventures. Like Susan trying to make extra money at a bar by finding lodging there. And that leads Sato to like babysit the kids of the mom who owns the bar. There's just. There's fun again. Also, the film is just fun because the animation of the chair is phenomenal. [01:27:11] Speaker A: The chair rules, I think. I mean, predominantly 3D, but it looks really good and blends right in. [01:27:18] Speaker B: I think it's very much like the. Again, the spider verse of it all where I think they give a lot of 2D accents to a 3D model. [01:27:24] Speaker A: Well, it's also like, it's such a geometric shape to begin with that you can really get away with it. [01:27:30] Speaker B: Oh yeah, yeah. [01:27:30] Speaker A: Where 3D animated in a 2D animated film tends to look very stiff. It's like. Well, yeah, it's a fucking chair. It's stiff. [01:27:40] Speaker B: Oh God. But man, they. It was so funny how it's like you can just see the thought process, their heads where it's like, how do we make the chair move so, so smoothly or so quickly? Then someone probably went. Probably gallops like a horse. [01:27:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:27:55] Speaker B: And because the chair. The chair. The amount of leverage, the amount of acreage that this chair makes on jumps. Yeah, it's fucking crazy. It's almost like Olympic levels. [01:28:06] Speaker A: I tell you what, it reminded me. The way this chair moves reminded me a lot of my three day three legged dog that I had growing up at my parents House. Yeah. It's like shockingly gets around very well. Like, you know, Watson was his name and that dog had been three legged since he was a puppy. He didn't really remember having four legs, so he always knew how to get around three. And it was funny. Like, I don't know, the physiology of it was very similar. And using the back leg as this kind of pivot point for the other two legs was great. [01:28:45] Speaker B: Remind you of when you used to put McDonald's veggies on top of Watson's back and make sure it stabilized. [01:28:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:28:51] Speaker B: Which is again, it's so funny again. The product placement in Weathering with you. [01:28:54] Speaker A: Donald's clam Chowder. [01:28:55] Speaker B: It's prevalent in Weathering with you, but it is absolutely everywhere in Suzume. Like it's clearly, clearly. Suzume I think is the biggest budget of the three of these films. It also made more money than Weathering with you in the States. [01:29:08] Speaker A: They really pushed the release a lot more. I don't remember Weathering with you releasing. Suzume got a big North American push. [01:29:17] Speaker B: I think with G Kids I think it's like they definitely. Because I think Suzume released in the states in 20. I think in 22 in the summer when it released early 22, I think [01:29:29] Speaker A: it was 22 in Japan, but it was 23. [01:29:31] Speaker B: 23 in the US it's probably 23 for us. Yeah. But I think it was like a summer release or I thought like a. [01:29:36] Speaker A: I think it was pretty delayed when it came, but they did push it a lot. [01:29:40] Speaker B: And it's like to have a fucking IMAX release is crazy. And it was. It's just. It's a lot of fun to watch. And it's like one of those things where like going into the film blind, it really is. You're just look like. It was so funny watching Ray watch this with me because Ray was like, like is he the chair the whole time? And I'm just. [01:29:59] Speaker A: And I'm just like why did they make him so sexy and then hid him behind a chair? [01:30:05] Speaker B: I only get to love his voice through that wooden chair. [01:30:08] Speaker A: Well, unfortunately for you, he's also sexy as a chair. [01:30:11] Speaker B: But it's funnier too when he goes stiff like a goat and just like falls over. [01:30:17] Speaker A: Goes like Toy Mode and Toy Story. [01:30:19] Speaker B: But yeah, I think Suzume, especially for his final film, as of right now, his most recent film, it is kind of like, you see that if it's true that his next film, he wants to build a gigantic world or he wants to like really build out his environment even more so than his previous films. I. It makes a lot of sense that Suzume feels like a testing ground for the idea of building out a world. Because you basically go from the southernmost point of like going from Kyushu all the way up to like even past Tokyo to get into like this big road trip story through Japan that is like, has such vibrant, like vibrant landscapes, vibrant characters, fun, you know, kind of mythology and lore surrounding Sato's family as well as what he does and the calamities attached to the worm and like the history points and whatnot. And there's so much there that could have definitely been developed more. And I think how it's developed in the film is just enough that I'm just. I don't. I was like, ah, you can give me more, but I don't give a. I'm. I'm down. [01:31:31] Speaker A: I do want to run one thing past you, because I didn't. I don't think I really pieced together. [01:31:35] Speaker B: I don't think you could really fuck the chair, even with the whole. I guess even though it has that one hole, because it doesn't have its fourth peg. I don't really. [01:31:44] Speaker A: I'm not that creative. No. I don't think I really fully understood. Two things kind of go hand in hand. One being, I don't think I really figured out what the MO or the existential purpose or function of the cats were. [01:32:04] Speaker B: I was wondering if it was a big thing. [01:32:06] Speaker A: And also just kind of the general third act set piece of the cat fighting the worm. I don't know that I totally grasped like a. What that. What was happening materially. Were they literally just duking it out? Was it a slugfest or was it. Or the. The thematic aspect, like what. I think because I didn't quite understand the cats then when it became the background of the third act, became this knockdown drag out fight between the worm and the cat, I was like, I don't. I don't. It's gorgeous, but I don't understand what's happening. [01:32:40] Speaker B: Well, it's also. Yeah, yeah, I will say the. The black cat of the two because I think it's. They're both Okami. But one of the. Basically the. The cats are seals for the worm and the doors. It's supposed to be basically like. It's similar to the weather maiden weathering with you where there used to be more seals throughout Japan, but now there's only like northern and the southern seal. The southern seal is the white cat that turns the Hot man into a chair with a hot voice. I think it's like a bait. And at least with this watch, it feels like a bait and switch. [01:33:16] Speaker A: Whereas for the majority, set up as a villain. [01:33:18] Speaker B: Yeah, you think that this cat is basically starting these calamities throughout the doors. When in reality, this cat isn't evil nor really good. It is basically a spirit that says, since you pulled me out of my totem, like my pole I am. My job is complete. Now it's time for the next person to take over. Which leads to the reveal that Sato is the new kind of key. And while Suzume takes it as you took Sato from me, you're evil. In reality, this cat literally just wakes up, finds this sweet girl that's nice to him and goes like, well, I guess this is my life now. Somebody has to fill this spot while I hang out with my new best friend. Hot guy. Will do. And then I think with the other key, with the black cat, I think since the doors are shut for the time being, there is that kind of energy of the seals are slowly loosening. But since Sato is the new key, it's like holding it down enough, but when they open the door, you find out it's not enough to keep it from not coming out. Which is why I think the black cat not being. But it is this kind of interesting where I don't think both are inherently evil or good or bad, but clearly serve a function. Yeah, the black cat is currently. Clearly pulls a lot of negative emotions out of people because that's what leads the cat being there. Leads to the aunt saying things a lot more aggressively than she means. Yeah, she truly doesn't believe in what she says. Or she basically says, you've taken my life from here ever since I adopted you. In reality, while there probably at times she feels that way, that's not entirely how she really feels. It's just at her lowest moments. And I think since the white. Since the white cat, every time we see him, everyone is just enamored by this adorable demon cat. And clearly he brings more good emotions out of people. While the black cat, I think inherently because of. I think traditionally, unfortunately, black cats are considered evil or misfortune. It brings more out. And I think the only thing I can describe is more of the fact that the grandfather knew of the black cat more than the white cat. Because at one point he looks at the black cat and goes, hello, old friend. I guess it implies that both those totems were placed there by him. Or at least he has experienced Both of them. Because the totems have to be changed, I think, every so often. But. But yeah, the cats. The first time I watched the movie, it was very much just like. So I guess they're just. Because I think they find out later that Suzume realizes that the cat isn't starting the calamities, it's literally just leading them to it to help them. And again, I think it is kind of this interesting aspect of it because again, it builds into that kind of mythology of like, spirits aren't inherently evil or good. They just exist. [01:36:14] Speaker A: Yeah, like. [01:36:15] Speaker B: Like spirits can just be. You know, this was my job. I did my job, and now this hot man has to do it. That's kind of the rules. [01:36:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:36:23] Speaker B: And then ultimately leads, you know, once that love is gone from Suzume and the cat feels bad, is when the. Ultimately the white cat risks, like, basically sacrifices its life to be like, this will be. This will help. And then the black cat is basically like, oh, he's doing that now. I guess I'll just become a potent totem again. And again. This is also on a second viewing. A lot happens in that first view. And I can understand it being like very jumbled, especially because you also watched it in two different languages. And also it's like, like, oh shit. Yeah, that does happen. Where the cat becomes big and fights [01:36:57] Speaker A: a giant worm, which is super cool. The finale of this is really gorgeous and stunning. But yeah, I was just a little. A little lost at certain points. But I guess if we read the [01:37:09] Speaker B: Maka, we'll find out more. Maybe Shinkai has developed it in ways we didn't know. [01:37:13] Speaker A: Maybe I need to play the tie in video game. [01:37:17] Speaker B: Shinkai video game would go so hard. [01:37:19] Speaker A: Eat the. Eat the Suzume breakfast cereal. Get my prize inside. It's two cats and they hate me. [01:37:28] Speaker B: Keep going. No, I think you can keep going for another two minutes. [01:37:33] Speaker A: But yeah, I mean, I don't have that much more to add on Suzume. I do think it's interesting you mentioned at the top of the episode, which I didn't know until a little while ago, after we had already kind of committed to this trilogy, that people refer to it as Shinkai's Natural Disaster Trilogy. [01:37:57] Speaker B: I didn't know either. [01:37:58] Speaker A: Yeah, which, you know, I get it. In the sense that all three films feature natural disasters or reference natural disasters. It's not as much of a thematic through line as I thought it would be based on. The people. The fact that people call it that just because, I mean, I don't I can't think of anything that your name is explicitly referencing in terms of real world events. I don't know if a comet actually hit a city and destroyed it. [01:38:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:38:30] Speaker A: But it doesn't feel like. Whereas Suzume feels, with its earthquake element, the worm is basically causing earthquakes the whole time. Yeah. And with weathering with you having this kind of rather bleak outlook on the world and you know, the direction the world is taking with man. Man made climate change. Yeah. There's much more of a comment through those films about the world. Whereas in your name, it doesn't really feel like it's commenting on the state of the world or the collective experience of natural disasters as much as the other two are. Particularly Suzume. [01:39:09] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's more. [01:39:10] Speaker A: Suzume has a lot more kind of grief to it, like mourning of these tragedies that will always happen. [01:39:18] Speaker B: I could probably see the intention with your name if he was trying to discuss more about natural disasters. Maybe the idea of how easily we forget or how if at least in this sense, Itomori becomes the town that got destroyed rather than just being what [01:39:33] Speaker A: it was before it got destroyed. [01:39:35] Speaker B: It becomes a fascinating part that I always remember. Because that's always the part where I wonder if someone's going to catch on to where it's going to go. Where when they go to the small thing in your name, a small restaurant. Someone who used to live next to Itomori, or even in Itomori realizes that Taki is drawing Itomori kind of staples. And then he asks where it is, and they're like, itomori, That's. And then his friends even go, wait, is that Itomori? And it's like, okay, so people are aware of enough that it's like, okay, so it's more of like discussing almost like the collective trauma and almost how easily, you know. Even when she says in one of his diary entries that maybe you'll see the comet tonight, he goes, comet. Like he doesn't immediately think of. Is he talking about the comet that happened three years ago? Like it's very much. Maybe that's the case. But at the same time, I do agree with you that weathering with you and Suzume have a bigger hand in just like talking more in a grounded sense about. [01:40:35] Speaker A: About the real world. Yeah. [01:40:38] Speaker B: I think especially with the fact that it's like now we are, as of this year, is it 14, 15 years? Even more so than the Japanese earthquakes that led to such a tragedy. [01:40:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:40:51] Speaker B: That was like such one of the biggest natural disasters. [01:40:54] Speaker A: And then More recently, the tsunamis and stuff. [01:40:59] Speaker B: Earthquakes. 2011. Yeah. A 9.0 to 9.1 magnitude under siege event that struck on March 11th of 2011. [01:41:07] Speaker A: Oh, right, right. The same event that Shin Godzilla was referencing. Right? [01:41:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I feel like. Because that's like. In terms of modern, like, I feel like when most people, especially in 2011, five years before your name comes out, it's like that's such a big traumatic event for that country. For Japan, it's just like it almost like a lot of times it's almost like your name, all the characters in Tokyo and they talk about the creators. Almost like how other countries, countries talk about that event. For Japan where it's like, oh, I do remember that. But it's like it's such a vague memory, even though if you experienced it, it is as vivid as it becomes. Because you also have like a little moment when Taki gets a ride from the guy that saw that art and he's like, you don't owe me anything. It was just really nice to see someone appreciate Itomori in a way that I hadn't really thought about for a while as he's smoking a cigarette of kind because he's very Japanese and very much in his whole attire and just how stoic he is in an anime sense. But yeah, that's the rise of Shinkai. All three of these movies, I think are a great time. Mileage will may vary with all three, but I think in all, genuinely, since all three are kind of easily available to stream currently. Susan, you can't really buy anywhere at the moment. I've been trying. Andy has constantly made fun of me when I buy movies. [01:42:27] Speaker A: For the trilogy, at least these three are all good. [01:42:29] Speaker B: I own two or three of them. I haven't been able to get Susan May in a while, but in September they are releasing a 4K steelbook. I'm gonna have to probably get that. And then I already have your name, but maybe I should get that 4k steelbook. My paychecks hate me. But it is kind of the thing that Shinkai has built a name for himself where I think at this point I genuinely don't think. I think he one of those auteurs that I really. I love the fact that I am not ravenous for another one of his films. I want another one really badly. And I'm excited for whatever he does next. But I think his work has done a great job of building out and opening people's minds and perceptions on what an anime film could be. Especially anime films that are worth paying attention to. Because the reality is there's. It's the thing about anime. It's why that so many people can make their careers out of talking about anime and watching anime and that's all they do is that anime is a very specific genre, sub genre that is so expansive. There's so much to it. [01:43:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Hard to even call it a genre, you know, because it's almost more of a medium in its own right. That like medium of animation that even [01:43:48] Speaker B: if you push away the series and seasons and all the shows that are like all the mangas are being adapted. If you just talk about the films. There are so many fucking films that it's like so many iconic films that of course are based off a manga but also entirely original in Shinkai's case that it's like I think is a great conversation. I think your name for the 2010s I think could be very similar. I think it doesn't feel like it's a hot take to say that it's very similar to I think akira in the 80s, Ghost in the Shell in the 90s, the 2000s. I fucking probably the Pokemon films, even though they were like late 90s, early 2000s, kind of like really showing that there is a western interest. [01:44:31] Speaker A: Western interest and a broad appeal and [01:44:34] Speaker B: show that like, you know, while for years and years and years at least in like kind of a western sense, it was the idea of why would I go see a movie like this in theaters when you can watch this at home for free? I think shinkai shows that, you know, yes, you can. You can watch anime easier than you ever have now than you could in past decades. But watching a shinkai film on the big screen is something else. [01:44:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:45:00] Speaker B: And so I'm excited to see what he does next. We're both, you know, excited and I'm excited we did this as like our final trilogy for like our sixth anniversary. [01:45:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Just kind of one for us. [01:45:11] Speaker B: And you would think they're like, alright, well they usually only do an anime trilogy every so often. They don't do anything more than that. They just, you know, why would they do another one? Well it's so funny that you say that because Andy pitched this one to me. One that I literally forgot it was frontier for. Both of us literally got. Had no idea this existed. And we had the perfect guest for this. And we're so excited to have him on to talk about this. But. But in the anime space there is a series based off of I believe, light novels. Very popular light novels in Japan. It led to a slew of adaptations that are mostly television adaptations, but there are shorts, there are, I think, OVAs. There are definitely also novels and whatnot, prequels, sequels, midquels. But in the span of all of that, there are three films, only a trilogy of films. There's also, I guess, in a sense, some of the earliest stuff in the timeline. [01:46:16] Speaker A: Right. [01:46:18] Speaker B: That you could arguably kind of the [01:46:20] Speaker A: beginning of the story. [01:46:21] Speaker B: Yeah, you could arguably watch these three films as like an introduction in a sense. And that is to start off September, which I believe is September 12th. [01:46:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:46:34] Speaker B: We will be discussing the Kizu Monogatari trilogy, which consists of. I have to pull up the Wikipedia for this. The three films are Taketsu, Nekketsu and Raiketsu. All kind of coming out in the span of like two to three years. [01:46:54] Speaker A: Yeah, I think. [01:46:56] Speaker B: Yeah. So January 2016 to January of 2017. Yeah, the span of the year. [01:47:01] Speaker A: These movies actually landed on my radar because I'm kind of always on the hunt for like, you know, what are some of the greatest pieces of animation that I don't know about that, you know, animated movies that people love. And these landed on my radar initially as like, people kind of talk about these movies. Like, these are some of the. The best animated movies I've literally ever seen. I was like, okay, that sounds cool. So I like threw them on my watch list or whatever and then found them again. When we were looking up, looking for trilogy ideas for this year and I kind of looked further into them and it turns out like, okay, they're actually a part of this much larger kind of cross media story and it happens to be a kind of touchstone or flagship franchise within the kind of specific vein of anime that is like exceedingly horny and sexual. Some of the series I know have some incredibly lewd and many people would say over the line moments and incidents. [01:48:10] Speaker B: We'll probably talk about a specific scene that's not even in these movies or even in the show we watched as research. [01:48:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:48:16] Speaker B: But there is a specific, infamous, truly notorious scene in this franchise that even we were kind of aware of and we had never watched a single thing from this. Yeah, that's kind of the show, the franchise, this is. [01:48:30] Speaker A: And. And at the same time too, you know, I don't want to discount it. I mean, both the series that we both watched leading up to this and the trilogy do have some, you know, major pop culture influence and the show is huge in its own right. [01:48:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:48:48] Speaker A: But yeah, this franchise is frequently associated with kind of the dark or Weird side of anime that people talk about being extremely sexualized, sometimes inappropriately, with regard to young characters and things like that, which is not really a realm, aside from in passing that Logan or I have dove into. We're both pretty big weebs at this point, but that side of anime has kind of missed us. [01:49:19] Speaker B: It's one of those things that, like, maybe I would be more forgiving of it if I were younger, if I were more naive, maybe if I were the age of the characters that are in the show. But I will say the creators of [01:49:32] Speaker A: the show are not the agents. They are not. [01:49:34] Speaker B: And I will say we will talk about it more on the episode itself, because I do have high expectations for these movies because I've heard. [01:49:42] Speaker A: I've heard it pretty much the best of the franchise. [01:49:45] Speaker B: I've heard it's like. Yeah, it's three films that are. I think all three of them are under 90 minutes. [01:49:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:49:50] Speaker B: They're all just over 90. Fucking crazy. That it. Like, they basically were supposed to be in the franchise the second bit of season, basically. Yeah. And then they got delayed basically five plus years because they were working on them so much and wanted to make sure it was perfect. And then when they did finally come out, they're actually considered now one of the best starters. If not, like, definitely need to watch. Like, if people talk about this franchise now, they probably have like a whole tier list of. You can kind of skip this. Definitely watch this. [01:50:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:50:22] Speaker B: I will say, when we watched the series that leads into these films, Bakumonogatari, there are moments in the show where I go, I actually really enjoyed this. And then literally five seconds after that, I go, I despise everything I just watched. Why is this fucking happening right now? And it happens consistently. [01:50:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:50:43] Speaker B: Which we'll talk about more with our special guest, Grant, who we had on our Sonic the Hedgehog episode a while back. [01:50:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:50:51] Speaker B: And is another, I would say, is also a very educational Weeb. [01:50:57] Speaker A: Yeah, he's a Weeb. He's a gamer, he's a Sonic fan. He's in the depths. [01:51:01] Speaker B: And I would have no doubt that he probably has more experience or at least has more knowledge of this, whether he wants to or not, than we do. [01:51:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Because when I first pitched this to him, I remember him basically looking at me and being like, you know what those are? Right. I was like, yeah, kind of. [01:51:17] Speaker B: I cannot wait to talk to him about this. Because, honestly, finishing Bakemonogatari, it was kind of fascinating how my feelings at the end were so much more positive. Than I was expecting that. I was like, okay, now I'm excited for these movies, but I'm also kind of excited to see how you and Grant talk, how we all talk about Bakamonogatari as well as how we respond to the movies, because I have not seen any of these. Neither has Andy. And I don't think. [01:51:43] Speaker A: I don't think Grant has. I think he just knows more about it than we do. [01:51:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Because I will say the term Motogatari Greatest. [01:51:50] Speaker A: It's a. Yeah, it's a loaded term in the anime sphere. Like, people know it as the show that does those things that people don't like. [01:51:57] Speaker B: To be fair, I think all the shows currently in the movies and everything, if you put them all together in an. In a time like runtime wise, it's still only 1/10 of one piece, but still, it is a very notorious 1/10 of one piece. [01:52:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a lot of show. [01:52:14] Speaker B: That could be a lot of shots show. But, yeah, tune in on september twelveth where we team up with Grant to talk about the Kizu Monogatari series to start off September, but as always, I'm Logan Soosh. [01:52:27] Speaker A: And I'm Andy Carr. [01:52:28] Speaker B: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.