Review: The Fantastic Four: First Steps

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Odd Trilogies with Logan. Just kidding. It's a review. But you are, of course, we are here to talk about the last big blockbuster to come out of July. July. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Pour one out for July. [00:00:19] Speaker A: The one that you said that so somberly. Like, you're just like, yeah, it's. [00:00:23] Speaker B: This is the end, folks. [00:00:25] Speaker A: July could not. July literally can't last. Like, it ends on the 31st. Like, what are you going to do? But yeah, we, we knew going into this year that July was going to be packed. And what better way to end the month than by talking about the last Marvel film of the year. Like, we're not getting any other Marvel films this year. And it's also going to be one. [00:00:53] Speaker B: For about a year. Actually. [00:00:55] Speaker A: It's going to be the second to last non Avengers film before we get. [00:01:00] Speaker B: Into all that stuff. Doomsday. [00:01:03] Speaker A: Doom's Big Day Out, I believe is the title. [00:01:07] Speaker B: Dooms Big Week. [00:01:08] Speaker A: I think it's Doom's Big Week, probably Big day. It probably is gonna take place in Holiday and then not so Secret War, I believe is the second film. But we're here just, you know, we now just. If you've listened to this episode, you might have already listened to our not so Fantastic First Steps trilogy. Talking about the three other attempts to do the Fantastic Four on the big screen, with one of them being unreleased because of certain parties being embarrassed what they made. But because we talked about the last three iterations, you know, 30 years of trying to get the Fantastic Four right on. On the big screen, it felt, it felt right to talk about the Fantastic Four First Steps. The mcu. [00:01:59] Speaker B: Yeah. The impetus for doing the trilogy to begin with. [00:02:02] Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. The. The MCU's finally, after nearly 20 years of existing tackling the Fantastic Four because. [00:02:15] Speaker B: The first family, the first family, a. [00:02:20] Speaker A: Jack Kirby classic, is a film that is directed by Matt Shackman, which many people would know in terms of the MCU space was a big part of, I believe the showrunner and one of the writers for Wandavision, which that show did come out four years ago, I believe. [00:02:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:41] Speaker A: And of course stars the man that has 16 movies coming out this year, Pedro Pascal Venice. Mr. Materialist himself, Mr. Materialist himself, Mr.— Eddington. Materialist, freaky Tales, Fantastic Four First Steps, Everything in Between. Vanessa Kirby, Joseph Quinn, Eben Moss Bachrach, Ralph Innocent, Julia Gardner. A strong cast. A strong cast. A strong director, who I believe this is his directorial debut in terms of film features, I think features wise. And you know, we have been kind of waiting for this for. It feels like forever, because that's just how the Marvel cycle feels. [00:03:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Movies get announced and then dates get moved around and. Yeah, yeah. You're kind of left wondering, like, okay, how's it gonna turn out? You see the logo. Three different. Three different logos for a film before the final one. [00:03:40] Speaker A: And surprisingly, this was probably one of the only ones in the Marvel space that has been pretty consistent. Like, it's similar. I think hilariously, Superman and Fantastic Four have both been like the no real issues production wise. Yeah, this is kind of where they want it to be. And so they're like, yeah, we'll do it in July 25th. And here we are July 25th. And I'm very excited to talk about this, mainly because Andy and I both saw it together, both saw it opening night, and when it comes to the film, I think we have some differing opinions. So I want you to start. Andy, how did you feel about first steps? [00:04:23] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, to kind of put it in a nutshell, I guess I would say that I thought it was fine, which to me was. I mean, at this point a Marvel movie being fine, being like a three out of five is expected, but no less kind of disappointing because we've been on this, I guess, cold streak with Marvel for a while where it's like two phases. Two phases. Most of their output is fine at best. [00:04:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:58] Speaker B: With occasional glimmers that shine through. But, you know, it feels like more often than not, we're walking out of a Marvel movie saying, yeah. And so I'm kind of there once again with this one, which I'm disappointed to say because I think it has a lot going for it and I loved small pieces of it and ideas that it presented. And I think just from the outset, before even seeing the movie, I loved that they were going with the kind of retro future aesthetic that. That sort of mid century futurism. And, you know, I like the cast across the board, but I think ultimately what doesn't work super well about this movie for me is that it feels very non committal about almost kind of every aspect. It feels like, okay, well, we're going to do this 60s futurist aesthetic, but half the movie is still gonna be on, you know, the volume or something similar and look kind of just like all our other movies. We're gonna do, you know, a different dimension, but inevitably we're gonna end up back in the. The main mcu and I think just the. The main four. It feels like the. They set them up to be a pretty interesting, distinctive and for once, like, you know, relatively developed take on the four members of the team. But then I don't think the movie really follows through. And I think a lot of the pretty much all four kind of end up feeling a little bit stale or like there was something left on the table with them. And so that's kind of where I'm at. Where I'm like, it's. It's fun for a while. I like that in the first half of the movie, it feels like kind of like an old Jack Kirby comic where it's like they're adventuring through space and there's crazy fun, you know, antics across the universe and stuff. And then the second half is where I kind of get into most of my issues, which is, you know, kind of. I don't know, it feels a little bit like they didn't know where they wanted to go with it. And it ends up feeling like a mixed bag. So that's kind of where I'm at in a nutshell. [00:07:26] Speaker A: And I mean, surprisingly, I do think there's one of those aspects where I would disagree on, but I think, like, honestly, I think I'm on the flip side of the coin. But I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Where my opinion of it is that it's been a while since I've felt like this about an MCU film. I think it's been probably six or seven years, but I feel like Fantastic Four, the First Steps in, in a lot of ways, both good and bad, feels like a phase one film in senses, in terms of the fact that, like, you know, the last time, I think. I don't know if I've ever said this on the podcast or any of these, like, conversations, but, like, when we talk about Marvel, because we've talked about Marvel ad nauseam, even when we're not asked to, because, of course, it's hard not to talk about something you've committed so much time into watching. [00:08:19] Speaker B: Investment there anyone? [00:08:21] Speaker A: Love movies and you want big blockbusters and you want to be in the zeitgeist. It's hard not to be like, honestly, the Zeitgeist, usually, especially at their peak, is a Marvel film. And just to see what they're doing with that. And the thing about First Steps is that it does have this energy of you, like in that phase one era of you can go into this and feel very much like you haven't seen a Marvel film in the last two to three years and not feel like you've missed a lot because it's again, very intentional. Not only the retrofuturism of it all, because clearly, like, having the guy who was a part of WandaVision, a show that was, you know, praised for its take on, you know, modern, like, generational sitcoms and the look and the iconography and how they kind of evolved over the years, and taking that and basically giving him like, we want you to do like a Jetsons esque, but not that super high sci fi, but just in that in between with the Fantastic Four in the own universe. Because at a certain point, it was pretty clear that, like, while early on in the mcu, they were doing things like, oh, this, this hero or this thing that actually happened 10 to 20 years ago, but it was such a small thing, you didn't really know it was going to happen. Like it was a governmental secret. Again, a Captain Marvel of it all. But that takes place in the 90s, and that movie is clearly, you know, they did not make the MCU with Captain Marvel in mind until they were given the chance to make a Captain Marvel. And then. [00:09:57] Speaker B: Yeah, and the task at this point of trying to make. Trying to sell that the Fantastic Four existed in the 1960s in the MCU would be a really tall order. [00:10:07] Speaker A: It would be insane. The same reason why we're the X Men we're gonna get is clearly gonna be in the same situation because it's like, how the fuck do you even bring up the mutant of it all? Even though technically in the mcu, mutants have been addressed and talked about. In a sense, that is another story for another day. But, like, I think with first steps, there are a lot of strengths in the fact that as a viewer, you can go into this and the amount of mileage you have with this film can truly just be the pros and cons of this movie by itself without having to worry about, you know, what came out earlier this year in the Marvel space or even years ago, or even what. What's happening after it. I think genuinely, thankfully, this movie feels contained enough that I feel like whatever happens in Doomsday and Secret Wars, I feel like there is still going to be able to people that can cut off and not have to worry about that and just watch this as a standalone thing and enjoy it. I mean, but at the same time, it's one of those situations where it's like, while it has phase one energy, to me, it's the 37th film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Like, it is. It is one of those things where, like, unfortunately, going into this movie, while my complaints and everything and like my pros and cons of these movies is about the movie itself and not about the overarching thing. And it is hard not to watch this movie and just also be aware of the fact that for the last year they have been constantly pushing that the Fantastic Four is going to come back again. But not in a Fantastic Four film. Because like, I think if this movie was, if this was a true phase one esque movie, we would be probably getting Fantastic Four 2 in like 2 years. 2 to 3 years. Like the turnaround would be much faster. I mean, it's pretty much like, you know, it would probably similar to like Captain America and Winter Soldier. That's like a three year gap. It's like 2011 and 2014. But now we're probably gonna have to wait four to five years for a sequel because we're gonna have two Avengers films where they have already announced that not only are the Fantastic Four involved, Pedro is one of the. Is the lead with Chris Hemsworth. [00:12:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:23] Speaker A: In those movies. And if leaks are true, which I believe the first post, the mid credits scene of this film kind of makes it true, is that the Fantastic Four and their family is a massive plot point in what is the inciting incident for Doomsday. And with all that bullshit said, like, it's just these things that I keep in mind. I think some of the biggest issues with the movie is the fact that it's pretty clear that while, you know, I think Shackman and the cast have such a love for the characters and want to go full cosmic or go full insane insanity and kind of like really commit to something even more so. It's also pretty clear that Marvel basically just wanted this film to be appealing in every way, shape and form without it feeling like it is. Like it's not fully giving. Taking control away from Shackman, but it's very clear. It's already kind of been announced that the film had to cut 20 minutes of content. To be honest, that's two hours. [00:13:32] Speaker B: They cut John Malkovich out of the movie. [00:13:34] Speaker A: They cut John Malkovich, who is. Who played the red Ghost, who has a bunch of super apes. We do see. We see a super ape, which I'm glad we get a little super ape. But it's pretty clear with one specific Fantastic Four member. I think particularly that in those 20 minutes they are clearly there is a part of themselves where Marvel is worried that despite how much confidence they have in the Fantastic Four, there is still a slimmer of chance that this movie bombs. Because at this point, with the MCU the amount of times they have had full confidence in a film that has not met expectations has now nearly hit two hands. Yeah, like, it was funny because we saw this with a bunch of friends and including Adam, who's a longtime friend of ours as well as a longtime friend of the POD and has done several episodes and he does have this. I think similar to. You and I were just like, there's like. There's just this feeling that it could have gone harder and like, why. Why are they so. What are they so afraid of? And I'm like thinking like, I think they're just afraid of like another Eternals situation or a Marvel situation where it's like. Or in a sense, like, even though it didn't happen to them, but they've now had a few films that have been juggled around so many times, release date wise, like you said, I hope from this point forward, or at least thunderbolts forward, they look at Brave New World and go, we can never do that to a movie again. Because, like, not only just in a budgetary sense, but it just in like it is when you push a film in like a context of a timeline and something, it's just so insane when you get to see it and you're like, I just, okay, this is why we had to wait so long. And with Fantastic Four, I mean, I think it's also the fact that Marvel is aware that, like, they can have all the confidence in the world. But, like, while the Tim Story first film did well enough financially to get a sequel, the most recent Fantastic Four we have gotten in theaters. Hated was fan for Stick. And it's like. And that film was constantly clowned on in ways where it's like, Reed is so stupid. He's just a stretchy man. Like, sue just makes fucking portals. He's boring. Johnny is. Johnny is Fire and there's Rockman. Like, it just says they had. They clearly have wanted to do something like this for a while with the Fantastic Four and have also just been like, we cannot shove it out there as fast as possible, but we also maybe need to have a little restraint, which is kind of insane because the, the one film they had last year, Deadpool and Wolverine, does not have any restraint. And that movie made a billion dollars. But then again, both films are in production at different times. And it's. It's very clear when we get to the third act of the movie, it has that phase one energy of like, they're the tied it all together. It is. The weakest aspect is the third Act. And while I still think the third act is fine, I just also is like. I agree with Andy that like in the middle when it comes to the visuals, the score, I think even stakes, action. There is shit in the middle of this film that I feel like is. God, I've always wanted that in a Fantastic Four film. And I think for a lot of people and for myself to a degree, they will see first steps. And when it comes to the third act, they'll be like, yeah, the third act was on Earth and whatnot. But we got. We got it. We finally got the. We got the kids in space. They're in there. They. They're having Sue. We're doing Read. They're at a new dying star. We're doing it all. Spoilers in case we didn't really say that yet. I know we're 17 in, but I mean, it is you. We get the things that. I know that if Jack Kirby were still alive, he'd probably be absolutely gobsmacked that, like people are actually putting that on screen. [00:17:38] Speaker B: And it's also, I mean, like Black Hole stuff was. [00:17:41] Speaker A: Yeah. And the Silver Surfer of it all where it's like Julia Gardner, while it's not classic bald. Clearly like bald male Silver Surfer. Like, it's. We're getting a version of the Silver Surfer that looks really good. I think does a good enough job. [00:17:57] Speaker B: Story wise. Is still filling the same role. Like, you know, it's still. [00:18:00] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think. And I think it's used better than a Rise of Silver Surfer, which isn't. Sure. Not saying much. But at the same time, it's like, at least it's like there is a effort to make it more for that character. And I think overall, I think if. Yeah. You're in like that 3 out of 5 space. I'm in that 3.5 out of 5. Like, I think the one thing we probably would disagree on the most. Actually it is the one thing we disagree on the most is the characters of it all. Because I do think that, like, the one con is due to slimming down the film a decent amount. I do think we lose a little bit of what they probably wanted to do with Ben. Like, in a sense, like, it is like Ben is so interested in this movie and it's understandable why so many people are kind of iffy on him in this because he. It's the first iteration of the character that I've seen and it may be. And you'd see too. This is the Ben. The thing in this movie is not Dealing with what the thing deals with in every single one of his iterations, which is constantly like, we literally make it. We make a joke about it in our episode where, like in the 94 film, he just goes, I'm a monster. [00:19:15] Speaker B: Like, he's just like self image thing. [00:19:17] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Like Tim's story, like, the whole first part of that film is literally his wife, after doing a heroic act, drops her ring and divorces him. Like, he's just. He has always been a tragic character in the Fantastic Four. And this is the first time in a adaptation where they make Ben mostly the rock of the family, who is genuinely, like, pretty content with his life. And clearly the, the kind of. The emotional pull of, like, him, you know, dealing with who he is was going to be surrounding Natasha Leone's character, who plays a school teacher that's in Yancy. Yancy Street. [00:20:00] Speaker B: Yeah. His neighbor. [00:20:02] Speaker A: His kid town, like, which Natasha Leone is based off of Jack Kirby's wife. Or it's like. It's like an inspiration of Jack Kirby's wife. And it's very clear in their inspiration. Like, again, because the actors that play the four. Huh? [00:20:19] Speaker B: I just said. Right. I was agreeing about. [00:20:21] Speaker A: Yeah. The actors that play the four, I think objectively are phenomenal actors and I think mileage is. Varies with, you know, how you feel about those actors, depending on, like, how are they handling with the amount of work that they are given. Because in this film they are given really, they shine the most as a team when they are together, which, you know, there are moments where they are together and they have little emotional moments, but a lot of the times they are just on adventures. While I personally think all four of them shine the brightest to. And that is a bit of a pun for Johnny because he's the human torch, but they all shine the brightest when they're given a moment to just do their own thing in their own unique way. [00:21:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:04] Speaker A: And unfortunately, Ben doesn't really get that fully. He gets a scene that clearly was meant to be more than it was. [00:21:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:12] Speaker A: Where he, you know, takes the time to go see Natash Leon and says, like, I came to see you. And it's like there's clearly a, A, you know, kind of a chemistry there. Like, you see that chemistry early on. It's very clear that, like, his whole thing was going to be the fact that, like, a woman is flirty with me. And for a second I forgot I was a rock boxer. But now I'm very self conscious because I am the thing. And that was going to be A part of it. On top of the fact that, like, you know, Ben, the interpersonal stuff with the family, this is. To me, it feels like the Fantastic Four in this movie actually feel like a family. Like, they feel. They feel like. This is the first time I think I've. You've. I've seen an iteration where the iteration is establishing that all four of them live under the same roof in the same building. And it's not, like, really, like, they don't have separate lives outside of just being like. But no, it's the type of film where, like, you can see that the four and Herbie and then, like, the inclusion of Franklin in the film, it's like there is an energy here where I am just, like, even at the end of the movie where I was kind of conflicted on how I was feeling and how I was honestly a bit bummed that this wasn't at least an 8 out of 10 in my head, I want it to be a 4. And, like, sure, I couldn't help but be, like, at the end of the film, be like, there is. There is things holding this movie back in a lot of ways. [00:22:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:39] Speaker A: But when it hits the ending and we get, like, the stroller, like, the baby car seat moment, and I'm like. I'm like, this is the first time a Marvel fan, like, a Marvel team, has hit, like, that part of my brain that I just really kind of needed with these movies, in a sense where it's like, I want more of these guys. I don't know if they're gonna be handled well enough in Doomsday. Like, it could also be the case, but, like, I just want more the Fantastic Four. And I haven't said that ever, when it comes to these movies, any kind of iteration of theirs, even the iterations of, like, cartoons and stuff, like, literally before we saw this movie last Thursday, like, we. Before we went to go see it, Adam, just, like, out of curiosity, when he was eating. We were eating dinner, he put on the 94 show. Like, the, like, 20, like, barely, like, cartoon. Yeah, the cartoon. And my God, it is rough. It is like. It is. It is very clearly, like, how the. Do you. How do you get the Fantastic Four right? And I feel like with First Steps, it's, like, flaws and all. Shackman at least understands why this cast builds the way that they do and ultimately can build into something stronger when given the chance. And I'm hoping the chance that's given in Doomsday is, you know, enough, like, genuinely. Because I want more of these Characters. And I feel like. Of a year where I feel like Sam Wilson has gotten the shit beat out of him and, like, they have to do a lot of work for him in the Avengers films because Brave New World is. Is unfortunately not a good movie. It's fine, but still. And it's like, it is nice to have thunderbolts in this. At least have some characters where it's, like, interesting to be like, I don't know what your next steps are going to be, but I'm kind of curious to see if. Whatever it is, I'm curious. I think that's kind of where we're at. Where it's like, I think on one side of the coin, where I think is very. Where you're at and is very valid is that, like, you watch this movie and you're like, regardless of what I do like about this movie, there is a good chance that whatever they do next could not be good, that it could just be kind of a mess. Or, like, I think you even made a joke in, like, our personal socials about, I can't wait until they make shitty nano suits for all the Fantastic Four. [00:24:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:58] Speaker A: Which is like, I hope. I hope they don't. [00:25:00] Speaker B: Yeah. That. That has kind of been the, like, weird, ominous, overhanging thing about the last several Marvel movies is like, yeah, maybe even going back a few of just, like, on one hand. Like. Well, I think just the uncertainty of, like, okay, are we going to see these characters again if we do, Are we gonna. Is it just. Are we just not gonna see them until they show up in an avengers movie with 60 other characters? Yeah. How meaningful is their role gonna be in that film? You know, and we have some semblance of that for, like, you know, they. I think they've said that. Well, like you said, Reed will be one of the main characters of Doomsday. [00:25:47] Speaker A: But they've said the leads are going to be Pedro and Chris Hemsworth. So whatever that means. [00:25:54] Speaker B: But just in general, that has been kind of a thing, I think, in a way, at least for me, maybe not across the audience, but at least for me, it's been an unfortunate, like, cloud hanging over the last couple phases of Marvel is like, okay, I'm watching this movie or this Disney plus show you're giving me, and, like, you know, it's at least moderately compelling moment to moment. But, like, should I. Should I be getting, like, is it really investing me in this character who I'm not going to see again until they show up in the big clusterfuck film? [00:26:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:31] Speaker B: You know, is it really selling me that this is somebody I need, that I'm gonna, you know, be enthusiastically rooting for when the universe is at stake, like in Avengers, you know, And I think that's just kind of been an awkward phase for them where the Infinity Saga all felt like. Even if it wasn't all planned from the start, it still felt like all the solo films were developing the characters in such a way that you wanted to see them team up with the others and, you know, join up with the team and come back and save the world. And. And even the films that were not all that great, we're still adding to those characters in a way that felt, you know, like you really wanted to see them get pulled on again? And I think that's something I've been struggling with with this phase of Marvel is like. And. And I would say in this film as well, just not. Not very clearly defining your lead characters. And I think. I think in this film, I think the. The main cast benefits from the actual performances. I think all four of the actors playing the Fantastic Four do a lot in their physical acting, in their line delivery. [00:27:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:53] Speaker B: You can kind of tell they've had long conversations with Matt Shackman about, like, what. What are we doing with this version of the character? And that comes through in their performance. I think Pedro Pascal is probably the easiest one to point to. He was one I was worried about, you know, was stunt casting and was gonna kind of bring nothing to the role. Even though he's a good actor, I thought he was just gonna be kind of a plug in. But, like, there is a very specific kind of, like, neurotic, troubled sensitivity to his version of Reed that I really appreciate that. I think in the comics, he's kind of just a narcissist, and in the previous film iterations, he's mostly just a kind of nerd loser. And in this, he kind of finds this place of, yes, I'm a nerd. Yes, I know my extreme intelligence rationality leads me to dark places. And that worries me. Like, you know, he has that kind of introspection of, like, I kind of hate that I come up with these ideas, and I loved that. However, I do think a lot of that heavy lifting is done solely in the performances. And I feel like a lot of times the script doesn't. It either doesn't have the time, or it doesn't take the time to. To, like, really flesh out what these characters want and who they are. And, you know, I think sue might be the biggest casualty in that regard? Well, no, I mean, Ben. I think Ben just not getting the scenes because Ben is basically the short shrift. Yeah. [00:29:38] Speaker A: Yeah. And it. Is it a pun intended when I said it, but I know it's funny because he's a rock. But, like, I genuinely. Ben is used in the narrative, in the cut, as a. Is almost an emotional support, like a foundation for the family in a sense that, like, anytime he has shown up in the movie, he is usually there as support for Johnny, for Sue, for Reed. And it doesn't mean he doesn't have opinions. Like, again, one of the things that I think, like, I watch this film and I feel like if it was. Again, if it was a classic phase one situation, I would love to see. It would have. I would have loved to see them interact with. This is a team that I genuinely would like to see them interact with other characters if I knew what the fuck that they're interacting with. It's like if, like, if we had well defined other aspects of the mcu, I would be so fucking pumped to see this team, especially this team in a 60s world, take on, like a modern day. [00:30:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:36] Speaker A: But, like, since we're at a point too where, like, the last couple films we've seen is like, I don't know how the fucking thing talks to Red Guardian or like, how. How Thor is brought into this and stuff, because if you have these last few phases, like, the Pandemic era is basically phase four and a good chunk of five. [00:30:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:57] Speaker A: And it's very clearly, like, now that we also know that a lot of the Disney plus shows were kind of just like, could have probably been narratives that were much tighter but were forced to be Disney plus shows because Disney started a new streaming service. We need to have more content, do this, do that. And we're now at a point where we're finally getting to, like, Disney, like, Marvel being like, all the shows that we have coming up next, like, we're really excited for. And like, we're actually, you know, we're not forcing them. We just like, yeah, Daredevil Season two. We're pumped for Visions, getting a show that we're excited for. There's another show I'm missing, Power Man. Literally, they had. They had Yaya Abdul Mateen show up at the Blue carpet as his character from Power man, which is wild. So, like, I have no idea what that's gonna be and how the fuck that ties it to anything. But, like, I genuinely think that, like, I agree that it's like, the performances are doing a lot of the hefty heavy lifting. Because at the end of the day, what this character, what this group, they really, really just wanted it to be clear to the audience that these four are a family. And at the end of the day, what do they want to make sure their family is okay and everything is fine and they love each other and they know if they need each other, they're there for each other. Like, it's literally. It is just very much so when they are all four on the screen together, it is very much so. They are a team. And unlike the Guardian situation where, like. Because you're like, well, the Guardians are also a family. But they had to build into it. It's like, yeah, but they had to build into it. It is unique for First Steps that we are coming in, and it is four years that the Fantastic Four has existed, and they've already established that they are a family, that they love being the Fantastic Four and they love being Fantastic Four together. It's not a forced thing. [00:32:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:43] Speaker A: And so, like, a lot of that does end up being. Because in my opinion, I think First Steps has at least two or three scenes that I think are some of the best scenes a Marvel film has had in years. In a flawed film, where it's like, I think Pedro has a scene with Franklin that I think perfectly captures what he wants to do with Reed. What will be interesting for what this character, what this version of Reed will do with the regular people. Because it's going to be an absolute. It is definitely going to be a hurdle for this man to talk to anybody else from a different universe on how to stop Doom. But it's like, it's. There's these little intricacies and how they all handle themselves. And Vanessa Kirby, while making the whole ideal. Having. Having Franklin in the pregnancy of it all means that she is, in fact, not in the action a lot of it. And sometimes she can't be. But, like, a lot of it is trying to prepare for a baby. The movie still, thank God, at least recognizes that when people think of Sue Storm, they don't. They think of the Invisible Woman. And that's kind of it. Or in a modern sense, even though it's been 20 years since this, they still think of Jessica Alba. They think of how, like, it was just like, the suit that was super skimpy and how, like, oh, my God, she couldn't get. She couldn't get invisible unless you took her clothes off. [00:34:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:07] Speaker A: Because, like, Kate Mara doesn't count. Like, unfortunately, it's like she was just Her. Her and the wig were just thrown on screen and not given anything to do and is very. It's actually kind of insulting looking back at that. Well, as with, like, at least in this movie, while I think her big emotional moment I think really could have used a lot more air to breathe and really build into that, I appreciate that they at least had. She had that moment and no one else had to stand there with her. She held her own in that moment. And the movie is trying to make it clear that sue herself is a force to be reckoned with. And no one has really understood that because all the other iterations kind of made her seem silly and stupid. [00:34:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:55] Speaker A: Now is her powers fully defined in Sue Storm standards? Not really, no. But, like, it's not gonna be because it's like, yeah, they really wanted this movie to show that she has so much more layers than just woman who turns invisible, makes force fields. They wanted to show her strength, her intelligence, that she's the heart of the family. Because that's something all them have constantly said in interviews, that they wanted sue to be the heart. And it makes sense because in the whole dying star scene, every one of them is trying to make sure that sue is going through a successful pregnancy. [00:35:28] Speaker B: While in zero G. And yeah, I do love that. The black hole labor scene, basically. Zero G labor. [00:35:37] Speaker A: Fantastic Four where I bet Jack Kirby be like, I could have done that. That would have been cool if I had done that. [00:35:43] Speaker B: I love that scene. I do. I agree with you in that I think this version of sue, we finally get, you know, to know her a little bit better than a lot of iterations of the character because she can kind of be just a pin up poster or whatever. [00:35:59] Speaker A: They make her the creation of the future foundation in, like, her universe. It was kind of like crazy to see that, in a sense. And yeah, I do. [00:36:09] Speaker B: I do kind of feel weird about the. Like, I think the climax in a way feels like it reduces her to just kind of like mother in a way, which it feels weird after the rest of the movie kind of going out of its way to show all these other facets of her. And then it feels like when the going gets tough, which, like, on one hand you can't really fault because it's like, okay, they did just have a baby. Like, she's gonna, you know, they're gonna be deathly protective over it and all that, but it just feels like she doesn't get a whole lot to do once the baby arrives. Aside from that, that scene where she speaks to people which, like, has the little speech in front of the crowd. Which, like you said, doesn't entirely feel super built up toward. [00:36:55] Speaker A: No, And I feel like a lot of that is. I think that is Kirby selling a scene that I think would have been more impactful had. Because there's the other guard. There are aspects that feel very much like, not entirely rushed, but it does feel like. I mean, if you got 20 more minutes, maybe. [00:37:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:16] Speaker A: Like, it is not even, like. [00:37:18] Speaker B: And it feels weird, two superhero movies in a row to be kind of complaining that there maybe should have been some extra runtime because, like, we've had many superhero movies that are way too fucking long. But I agree, and I do think with a little more time, they could have fleshed out some of the characters in the arcs. But I think part of the problem, too, with. With Fantastic Four that, you know, maybe, you know, as a comparison, Superman did not have as much trouble with is this movie not only is trying to come in under two hours, it's also doing a lot of compression of time in the narrative. [00:37:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:58] Speaker B: There's a lot of time jumping, which then in turn kind of makes it feel on top of the rapid pace. You're also, like, skipping over characters, doing things. I mean, like, Johnny, you know, figuring out the whole language feels very, like. [00:38:16] Speaker A: Okay, I guess, as much as I. Yeah, I would. I would agree that to an extent. Like, I do think. I do think that, like, it's very clear that they thought that the solution to this, which I think is it'll probably be enough for some people. And I think for me, I was like, I see what you're doing, but, okay. But it's like, instead of giving us a time frame, they were basically going, like, any time Galactus was going past a planet, it's going past Jupiter. And it's like, doesn't say in terms of how much time is that between when he passes Mars. But, like, yeah, at least as an audience, we know if he's passing Mars, we're next. And so it's like. And while it is kind of like, you could have more. Put more time on Johnny with the Rosetta Stone. I just love the fact that their interpretation of Johnny, again, is not that he's a scientist, because he's not. Like, it's. He is very much sold in the film as someone who, if he knows how to apply himself, he can get things done that most people wouldn't think he could do. Like, it's so. Yeah, like, he's so fun. It's so funny how he Basically just gets a Rosetta Stone and just builds it out from there and leads into, I think, one of the best emotional moments in the movie, which is just him trying to connect with Chala Ball of Silver Surfer and using her own language against her in terms of being like, you thought I could like. Because again, there's, like, this energy. And again, another thing they love is that they're going with the fact that Johnny is horny for all aliens, not just for humans. He's. He is. He is a slut. He's an intergalactic slut through and through, and I love him for it. It's just like, he. But, like, he has a heart and an emotional part to him that, like, he doesn't show as much. Shows it more than Reed, but that's just Reed. But I love how, like, in the film, it has moments where, like, he clearly is, you know, emotional about certain things. And so he has, like, his emotional support, lucky charms that he hides in different places in the kitchen. And then, like, you know, he clearly wants to be taken more seriously by Reed, but it's Reed Richards, and he's constantly busy with everything around him. And so, like, you have. You have all these things that, like, yeah, I. It's hilarious because watching this, I was like, this could have been a Disney plus show. [00:40:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:27] Speaker A: But, like. But the budget would have been so inflated. I get it. But, like, this. They build a team that I'm like, I would have. I could have taken just, like, an episode or two of just, like, building into Post Galactus and, like, having. Having Ben do Ben things. And. Because, again, I think Ben's performance and the way they're selling Ben, I think, again, I think all through. Four of the actors are incredible. And I think it makes sense, again, that even though the Marvel films have been hitting three out of fives for the longest time, Sarah Haley Finn has been hitting 10 out of tens a lot of the time with her casting and still is. And it's just like, clearly, with Eben Ebon's back rack, it's just like, you know that. That shot that we saw in the trailer that I think we both were just like, oh, God, this. Let's see how this goes. Is like, when he's watching the television and it turns off and he just sees his face and like, yeah, like, you can see this element of sadness behind the eyes, but it's not getting to him because he's just. He's got to live. And it's. I think all four of them show off these Little nuances that like, unfortunately in the current state of this movie leads it to feel like they. They need more of that, more smaller moments. Because like, again, too very phase one. Especially because I kept reminding myself of Iron Man. This is not really an action movie. Like, this has action in it. But like, this clearly is more of a familial drama that is also a sci fi that just every so often has an action sequence. And it clearly like the Red Ghost stuff, like the Malkovich, I think very much I. I have a feeling that was supposed to be the opening of the movie, was supposed to be Malcolm super super Apes. Because I will say at times, while the film does well enough to keep it under two hours and not feel janky, there is two or three sections, two or three edits that made me go, that doesn't feel like that was supposed to be the original edit. The opening credits, I think has an ender, like the opening title card, I think has a little energy of like they really force that out and just snap out of it. So, like, I feel like originally maybe they were supposed to. Because in my head it feels like it makes sense that the movie starts with them not being at the show because they're fighting Red Ghost and then the film ends with them not being at the show because they have another beep. Like, incredible shit. [00:42:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:53] Speaker A: Which I will say the most genuinely, the most fantastic part of this film is Michael Giacchino score. Like, I feel like that, man. Even though, like at this point, the constant joke among us, and I think by a lot of people, is the fact that Giacchino has made already the best unofficial Fantastic Four score, with the incredible score early, early on his career and now has gone to a point where he's now doing the actual Fantastic Four. And the best part is, is that it's not a rehash of what he did for the Incredibles. It is not just like trying to be like, remember the 60s, remember the golden age of superheroes this era? Like, his stuff feels like, what if it's 2020 or like in the 2000 and 20s, but it's still the 60s. And having this really interesting, like bumpy choir, like very theremin, very sci fi energy to a lot of the score. That is very. That feels modern, adventurous, clearly. Yeah, modern, but also feels like you're watching a 60s television opening in terms of just like little beeps here and there. And then when you get into space, like the Galactus, the Dying Star score is so good. It is very much so. Like, if anything, as Much as I do. We both enjoy Superman more than this movie. I love the fact that both Marvel and DC have films coming out in July that are just, like, clearly loving and respecting the roots of these characters in terms of, like, with Superman shooting in Cleveland and shooting in, you know, era areas that were, like, you know, that inspired the comics because of Superman's origins and the creator's origins, and with the fact that with Fantastic Four first Steps, we're still finding more and more stuff about, like, you know, it's called they're in universe Earth828. And it doesn't matter that they're in that Earth because you're already kind of well aware that they're in an alternate reality. But it's called 828 because that's Jack Kirby's birthday. [00:44:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:48] Speaker A: And they also basically have a Stan Lee cameo to an extent, because at a certain point, you see Jack Kirby and Stan Lee in their universe making comics of the Fantastic Four. In the scene where the Silver Surfer is coming down, there are two comic book artists that are working on. That are working on the Gigantos. Like, they're working on the classic Fantastic Four art. And it's clearly Kirby and Lee, and it's like, there's so much love for Kirby, and, like, Feige has just been gushing about how much he loves Kirby and how it feels like Kirby hasn't been getting a lot of love. And it's great to think that, you know, now that, like, you know, this movie just feels like such a love letter to a Fantastic Four narrative that I think, you know, I think people who have always been iffy on the Fantastic Four can go in and fall in love with these characters and hopefully just be like, I want more of them, and I. Hopefully they get better as they go on. Because, like, yeah, it has the energy in my head where it's like, I want this to be a First Avenger, Winter Soldier situation, where it's like, I think the First Avenger is fine to, like, good. Like, I enjoy that First Avenger, but I love Winter Soldier and what they do with the basis foundation of what Joe Johnston did with Cap. And then you go with the Russos. [00:46:07] Speaker B: And Winter Soldier, really dig deeper into the. [00:46:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:10] Speaker B: Characters. Yeah. [00:46:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, this. This year has definitely had, like, two of the Marvel films that feel like you have the two directors, because right now, the directors that are in the Marvel lexicon at the current state, if they could, like, is like, Jake. Jake Schreiber, who is going to be doing X Men who did Thunderbolts, I think, did a really good job with Thunderbolts. [00:46:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:31] Speaker A: Shackman, clearly. I think Shackman could be coming back again for some more. [00:46:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:36] Speaker A: And then, like, even though he's currently kind of in the Marvel space technically, but he's currently working on a Sony film, I really want Daniel Dustin Cretton to still be doing, like, a Shang Chi film in the future. Like. [00:46:48] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [00:46:48] Speaker A: Like, I think one of the issues with Phase four and five is that it feels like there were so many creatives being involved in all these different projects, and it didn't feel like they were really fully given a chance to bounce off. Like, the early phases were like, the Russos are the Russos now because of Winter Soldier to so many people. Like. Like, they were the guys that did you, me, and Dupree and, like, some Community episodes here and there. They. The Winter Soldier is like, holy shit, these guys can do it. And now we're at a point where, like, they have done literally, like, blockbusters for streaming services for, like, the past two to three years. They literally had a $320 million blockbuster come out. Not in theaters this year, and not a single person I know has seen that movie. [00:47:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:47:38] Speaker A: But they got as. But they got that budget because of being the chance to springboard off of Winter Soldier, like, into Winter Soldier and other things. And it's a bummer that in four and five, really, all we have gotten is Shackman. And, like, Schreiber basically was involved, I think, because the original idea for Thunderbolts kind of floundered, and then he got brought on board. [00:47:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:59] Speaker A: Then. Because he did beef, so they brought him on, see? To beef. And then that brought in Steven Yen, I think, for a second, and then Steven left because of that, like, First Steps does feel like, in my opinion, two steps forward, one step back, in terms of just, like, this is where they need to be going. They. I think they need to be doing this faster and more like Superman. But at the same time, I can also see them being like, maybe people don't like Superman. And then now Superman's out, and they're like, well, fuck me. I guess. I guess. I guess we should just. We should just do this. And so I. I still think I really enjoyed First Steps, but I think ultimately, because I was talking to my girlfriend about this, she was like, how. Like, relatively. How would you explain this to me? I was like, I am probably gonna watch James Gunn Superman at least 10 times in my lifetime. That's gonna be a film that I feel like, is gonna be an easy watch. Put it on the background. Highly recommended to anyone and be like, I genuinely love this movie. It's one of my favorite films of 2025 so far. It is one of the best superhero films we've got in a while. Yeah, I will probably watch First Steps two, three times at least. And then like, from that point forward, like, and one of those times is definitely going to be the prep for Doomsday. And maybe just to give. But, like, mostly, if I'm going to recommend this movie is going to be people who are like, I don't know, can you even do the Fantastic Four in live action? And it's like, go watch First Steps. They can do that. And also, if you haven't seen an MCU film in a long time, I think First Steps can be a good springboard back into it in terms of being like, okay, maybe I am interested in a Doomsday if you want to be. But at the same time, if you just watch First Steps and you're like, hey, I'm excited for a fantastic4 2 don't really need a Doomsday. That's also fine. But it's one of those things where I feel like it is. I do agree with you that I wish this was better. I wish we were at a point where Marvel was, you know, slowing down enough that they could be able just like, maybe make two films a year and just kind of like, you know, really put all their eggs in that basket for a bit. But until we see that change, I think I will just accept the fact that I really liked First Steps and just hope that, like, if they make A Fantastic Four 2, it's not dog shit. So, yeah, it's. And I. So, yeah, I think both. I understand where Andy is coming from and I have. I can absolutely understand the flaws that a lot of people have with the movie, but I just really. I got a glimmer of hope with First Steps that I kind of got with Thunderbolts in a way where it's like, I'm seeing that they finally. While the volume. Yes. Is still apparent in a lot of ways, I feel like I'm curious now to just be like, alright, fine, I will see Doomsday for the Fantastic Four, whatever. But, like, don't fuck this up. Figure out what a third act is. And then, you know, just. [00:51:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it does feel like kind of to their credit, but also like, yeah, let's pick it up a bit. It does feel like between Thunderbolts and this, like, maybe Marvel is, like, starting to learn the right lessons of, like, yeah, let's experiment a little bit in terms of tone and style and setting and things like that. It is, I think, a little bit frustrating just because, you know, people have been saying that for a decade. You know, everybody, you know, where have you been all this time? You know, and to just now be kind of getting there. Meanwhile, unfortunately for Marvel, James Gunn knocks it out of the park on his first entry in the D.C. you. You know, and also he's out there campaigning and saying all these things about how every film in the DCU is going to feel different. And, you know, who. Who knows if that ends up being true, if he ends up being able to pull it off or if they're all good, you know, I want to. But it is unfortunately, like, kind of we have that to compare to now, and now we've got the old standard, Marvel, which is kind of feels like it's dragging its feet on really changing things up and experimenting and doing interesting things. [00:52:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:24] Speaker B: And meanwhile, you've got, on the other side, James Gunn saying, D.C. is going to be a total art experiment, you know, and it's just, you know, differing. Differing approaches. [00:52:34] Speaker A: It is Gun throwing the entire kitchen at the audience, while Shackman and company are basically trying to be like, here's the right amount of kitchen sink for. [00:52:44] Speaker B: Two hours here, but let me slide you a little bit of the kitchen sink across the table and see if you like it. [00:52:49] Speaker A: I think it's mostly the best part of the sink, but you'll have to let me know. Like, it is kind of like, it is funny that it is the. To the conservative of the two films, but I am. I am happy. I am very curious to see. I do want Gun to commit and keep this high energy from Superman, and I also want the good graces that First Steps is currently getting through. Like fans enjoying the movie and the movie doing fairly well. The time, like, financially, for Feige to see the two and be like, okay, like, I think there's a good middle ground between the two that I think we can go forward with. And, yeah, it really. It's. It's. Now we're in a weird space because what we're getting next is a Spider man film that no one knows exists. Like, we don't think it's gonna. We don't know what really it is. [00:53:33] Speaker B: Until it almost sounds like, by design, it's gonna have very little to do with what else is going on in the greater Marvel universe, which is, I think, a good thing. I think that's where no Way Home ends off. So, yes, I'm very excited for Spider Man 4. I hope they pull it off. At the same time, it does feel like, okay, this was kind of the last. Last real new breath. Like, fresh breath going into the Avengers films that don't feel all that set up even now. [00:54:04] Speaker A: No. Yeah. And it's one of those things where, like, what. How much that breath gives you that glimmer of hope. [00:54:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:09] Speaker A: Will vary. And I think, if anything, I'm hoping, like, we live in a world where I still have people that come up to me and say, God, I just love Deadpool and Wolverine. So I'm hoping that, like, you know, even if I don't agree, even if I don't agree, if people are like. If there are some people out there that think First Steps is the best mcu, even though I disagree, I'm glad that there could be people that could enjoy that. That stuff that much. I'm glad I live in a world where the Fantastic Four is actually liked outside of, like, comic Die Hard fans. And I kind of want it to be. They see that Marvel does and knows that if they it up, it's just. It is gonna really. I don't know how you come back from, like, you know, giving people a really good foundation for, like, what the future could be for the. For, like, a team in the MCU in terms of just, like, we could get more of these people in the future. And, like, if. If they. If they even stay in our world, we have no idea what the fuck that looks like. Because, again, I don't even know if they know what that looks like yet. So, yeah, I'm. I'm already kind of assuming we're not. [00:55:12] Speaker B: Doomsday doesn't even have a script. I finished script. [00:55:15] Speaker A: So, yeah, the third act, like, again, I. I'm already kind of assuming Doomsday's gonna get pushed to, like, May of 27 at this point. [00:55:22] Speaker B: Yeah. It's kind of hard to believe it'll hit that date. [00:55:25] Speaker A: As long as that movie can work, I'm, you know. [00:55:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:30] Speaker A: Even with that in mind, First Steps, I think, is a fun time, I would say, you know, it's still. I liked it more than Jurassic World. Rebirth of our July films. Superman. First Steps. Rebirth. All three are entertaining in their own ways. Definitely see Superman if you haven't. But if you've always been a Fantastic Four hater, I think First Steps could give you an indication that, like, there are avenues and angles to these characters that can make them interesting. In a cinematic sense. But. Yeah. But yeah. Thank you so much for listening. I'm, I'm so glad we got so much July content out for all. [00:56:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:06] Speaker A: To get all this out. And by the time, you know, this is out, we've probably already, you've already probably heard that we are doing the Naked Gun trilogy as well as the Katsi trilogy in August. And we're also covering the new Naked Gun with our friend and the ifja, as well as a friend of the pod, Kevin Costner, obsessive Nick Rogers. So we'll have him on the Naked Gun trilogy as well as discussing the new Naked Gun. [00:56:33] Speaker B: Right. [00:56:33] Speaker A: Which, you know, will Frank Drebin take over the world? We'll see. But until then, thank you so much for listening. I'm Logan Sowash. [00:56:42] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:56:44] Speaker A: Bye.