Episode 123: Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam: A New Translation (with Evan Dossey & Alex Holmes)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Sowash. [00:00:23] Speaker C: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:00:24] Speaker B: In Odd Odd Trilogies, we take a trio of films where they're tied by cast and crew thematic elements or just numerical orders, and we discussed the good, the bad and the weird surrounding each film. And boy, we got some weird shit today to talk about. Exciting stuff to talk about, but this is kind of something that we have had in the back burner on our brains for a while. Last year we kind of talked about doing this trilogy a little bit because it was the 40th anniversary of the series that this trilogy compiles. But instead, in honor of the now officially going to release in at least the US Hathaway 2. [00:01:03] Speaker C: Right. [00:01:04] Speaker B: I cannot remember the subtitle for the [00:01:06] Speaker C: life of me, but the Sorcery of Nymph Circe. At least in northern North America, yes. [00:01:13] Speaker B: So in honor of the the newest Gundam film coming out in May, we thought it'd be the perfect time to discuss the Zeta Gundam compilation film trilogy. And Andy and I just knew we couldn't do these films justice without our two guests. We actually have two guests this time. So, Andy, take it away. [00:01:33] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Quite a historic moment for this show as we've. We've never piled two on at once, but our first is somebody that friends and longtime listeners likely know. He's a co founder and prolific writer over at Midwest Film Journal and a fellow member of the Indiana Film Journalists Association. He's our biggest Venom fan. We know. He's Evan Dawson. [00:02:02] Speaker D: Thanks for having me on again, guys. [00:02:04] Speaker C: Thanks for being here. Thrilled to have you back. Our second guest, however, is a new voice on the pod phoning in from the other side of the globe in Australia. Is it Canberra? [00:02:17] Speaker A: That's correct, yeah. No one knows about Canberra because. Nicole, any drops on Canberra, thankfully. [00:02:23] Speaker C: But yes, he's all the way beaming in from across the globe. And this man holds kind of a special level of responsibility for this episode as he's not only the longest Gundam veteran Gundam fan in the room, but he's also ultimately the reason for the rest of us knowing and loving this franchise. We'll say a little bit more on that here in a minute, but Alex Holmes, thank you for being here. [00:02:54] Speaker A: Thanks, guys. It's great to be here. Very, very excited to have a long chat with people who can tolerate my rants in this very niche, niche, niche subject. [00:03:04] Speaker B: Well, we're happy to have you. We're happy to have both of you here. And just before I forget, because these three films do have very long titles, and I want to make sure I remember saying all three of them. But the trilogy compiles of 2004's mobile Zeta Gundam a new translation, Heirs to the Stars, 2005's Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam a new translation, Two Lovers. And then Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam 3. Love is a new translation. Love is the pulse of the Stars in 2006. So technically it's the 20th anniversary of the third film. [00:03:43] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah, quite a mouthful. Congratulations, Logan. [00:03:49] Speaker B: But yeah, it is happy to have you both here because before the colony drops happen to all of us, it might as well just talk about how many years ago did we do the compilation trilogy for original Gundam? [00:04:03] Speaker C: I think that was 2022. [00:04:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:08] Speaker C: So four years ago, man. [00:04:09] Speaker B: Probably. Yeah. Because basically what happened, if I remember you actually, Andy, you tell the story of how Alex got you into this. [00:04:19] Speaker C: Well, I'll give my perspective. And then maybe Alex can corroborate or deny. But I RECALL it was 2021 because it was the year that Gundam Hathaway released. And as was usual at the time, I was. I think I posted like my either midpoint of the year or quarter three ranking of like, movies so far from that year. And Alex, who I had met through like, some online fan groups on Facebook, didn't know each other well, but we were in a couple of the same online circles. He commented on my post about my movie rankings and was like, is Gundam Hathaway gonna be on your ranking by the end of the year? And I was like, I don't know what the fuck that is. What is Gundam? And he kinda. He gave me his sort of little crash course on. I was like Steve Rogers in Winter Soldier writing down all of his suggestions. And I don't know, something about the man's spirit took hold of me and I watched like all of the original run of UC Gundam, like, up through Char's Counterattack in a few weeks. It was a slog, but I did it and I fell in love with it immediately. And, yeah, the rest is history. And now Alex is an honorary member of the Indiana Gundam Club. And we found out after the fact, I think, that Evan was a mutual friend and that you guys knew each other and I knew Evan through entirely separate means. And then, yeah, strange coincidence. [00:06:12] Speaker D: Alex and I have known each other for over a decade. [00:06:15] Speaker A: Oh, God, it's a long time. [00:06:17] Speaker D: I remember talking to him about Game of Thrones via Facebook messenger before Allie and I were married in our 10th anniversaries this year. So Alex at this point is my longest lasting. Oh, this is the first time we've spoken face to face. He's my oldest. Yeah, I would say Internet friend. [00:06:36] Speaker C: Oh, wow. [00:06:37] Speaker D: Extremely strange when suddenly you and Andy also know each other separately. Yeah, around, around the same time. Andy and I became better friends just after the pandemic. Um, and Alex got me into Gundam in that year too. Although I don't even remember the context. I do know that when I started becoming more interested in it, he sent me his video that he had recorded explaining the different continuities which I still have on my computer somewhere. So. And I, I referred back to. I, I, I want to say before we begin, Alex is also one of the most prolific writers on Midwest Film Journal and has been for a long time reviewing, sometimes reviewing DVD releases for us, but also having written several excellent essays about the Eva rebuilds called Touching a Nerve which like, now I look at them. That was five years ago. [00:07:36] Speaker C: Right. [00:07:37] Speaker D: But there's still some of the best writing on our site. I'm very still proud to host them, but it really bothers me now to realize that was those five years ago. [00:07:50] Speaker A: Yeah, you guys, you guys are way too kind. That's so nice. Thank you. Yeah. It also bothers me that it's so fun. [00:07:57] Speaker C: Okay. [00:07:58] Speaker A: And I don't, I can't remember if I ever told either of you how I got into Gundam, which is a very embarrassing kind of not wanting to be a poser of My wife and I went to Japan for our honeymoon and I went to the life soil, life sized Unicorn Gundam and I bought a shirt and I was like, this is a cool shirt, but I, I haven't seen the show. And then I had a friend who was really into Gundam and so I said, oh, like Unicorn Gundam happened to be on Netflix. And I was like, oh, can I start with that? And he's like, well, yes, but you should really start with like the original ones. And I'm, I still remember watching the original trilogy with him. When can we do spoilers for Gundam? Yeah, I don't want to. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. I don't want someone's like, oh my God. When, when Shah first like kills Garma, I just remember to him being like, oh my God, that happened. He's like, yes. And then same like when we saw sh. Counter Attack at the end, I was just like, oh my God. So it was like those kind of moments are so good. And I was really glad to be able to kind of trying to get you guys to experience them. As well, because they're so rare in all of media to have, like, such directions that you just. Oh, they're really going to do this. Yes, they are. But, yeah, you guys are too kind. And it's lovely. It's lovely to actually be able to speak to you in person properly for the first time. [00:09:17] Speaker C: Absolutely. It's a pleasure and an honor. And yeah, what a saga it's been because now we're all way deep in this shit, as our listeners are about to find out. [00:09:30] Speaker D: Still feel that I don't hold a candle to either, to any of the three of you, but. But I'll do my best to keep up. [00:09:37] Speaker B: Oh, no, don't. Don't even do that. Like, this is going to. [00:09:41] Speaker C: Well, we are going to have a mobile suit named Lightning Round at the end of the episode, so I hope you've been studying. No, we're not doing it. [00:09:50] Speaker B: Just remember Rick Diaz. Just remember, Rick Diaz is the most important name of the entire series. The key to all of this is the Rick Diaz. [00:09:58] Speaker C: Right? [00:09:59] Speaker B: Yeah. There's going to be spoilers abound. You have four guys here that love Gundam too much, so it's just gonna fucking pop up and it's gonna be more. [00:10:08] Speaker C: Oh, go ahead. [00:10:09] Speaker B: No, it's just gonna be. It will probably be other series other than OG and maybe even Zeta. But just keep in mind. [00:10:17] Speaker D: I mean. [00:10:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, we're prone to wandering when we're talking about things that we are deeply passionate about. [00:10:23] Speaker D: Also, the. The hard thing for me to always reconcile, like you said, this is the first. Last year was the 40th anniversary of Zeta Gundam. Like, these are not new shows. They're not reasonably recent shows. No, Zeta is older than all of us, I think. [00:10:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:41] Speaker D: I mean, spoiling it doesn't feel like such a big deal to me. [00:10:45] Speaker C: Yeah, No, I mean, it's also the fact that, you know, this is a compilation trilogy that came 20 years after the original. And for all of us except Alex, I think this was our first time watching the compilations. So naturally, the conversations are largely gonna be like, kind of comparing it to the existing series. And in order to do that, you know, you kind of have to. Spoilers kind of have to be all on the table. [00:11:16] Speaker B: So, yeah, I think initially the conversation happened because when I got into Gundam solely to give. Give Andy and our friend Patrick someone to talk to about Gundam other than, you know, as much as I know he wants to talk to both you and, you know, you two about it, I was like, it'd be kind of fun Just to literally watch all of OG Gundam, all of Zeta, and then be like, by the way, I watched all this. Let's watch Char's Counter Attack. And then that's what we did. [00:11:46] Speaker C: Yeah. He invited me over for a. He was like, let's watch a movie on Monday night or whatever. And I was like, okay, it's a surprise. And then I got over there, and he's like, we're gonna watch Char's Counterattack. And like, my heart skipped a beat. Cause I was like, but you haven't seen any of the rest of it. We can't do it. And he's like, no. All winter, I've been watching Gundam. [00:12:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Our mutual friend Patrick, basically, I was like, hey, can you give me whatever list Andy's friend who would have given him about what he should watch? He'd send it to my way. And Patrick's like, yeah, we watched the compilation film. And I was like, cool, I'm gonna watch OG Gundam. Just all of it. I was gonna watch the show. I'll watch the dub. And then I watched all of Zeta. And it's hilarious now to think I didn't watch Zeta that long ago, but it was long enough ago that I had to get a funimation account to watch that dub. [00:12:38] Speaker A: Oh. [00:12:38] Speaker B: And now that doesn't exist anymore because Country Roll ate funimation. So now you can just watch Zeta and Crunchyroll. But, yeah, then we watched Char's Counter Attack, and then I was so hyped after Char's Counter Attack, we turned it into a double feature, and we watched Hathaway the same night. [00:12:54] Speaker C: Oh, right. [00:12:56] Speaker B: And that was a blast. I can't wait to rewatch Hathaway for two. [00:12:59] Speaker D: I'm looking forward to re watching it too. It's been so long. [00:13:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Because it's taken 87 years to get Hathaway 2 out. [00:13:11] Speaker C: I'm just stoked we're getting a theatrical release over here. [00:13:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:14] Speaker C: Fingers crossed for Alex as well. [00:13:16] Speaker A: Well, they better, because there's. There's bits of Australia in it like they're in. Someone was comparing, like. Yeah. I have a tangent later about how prominently Australia features in Gundam, but someone was saying, like. Like, here's a screenshot of, like, a street in Adelaide. And then it's like, that's the street in Adelaide. So that. That bit in the Philippines they did in the first one they've done with Adelaide, which is kind of like. I don't know how to explain that. Date anyone who's not from Australia, but it's kind of like if they. I don't know, like minutely replicated, like, you know, like Cleveland or something. And you'd be like, oh, that's a choice of a city. But yeah. So I really hope if you guys have it, like, we shouldn't be too far behind. But yeah, still hasn't been announced yet. [00:13:54] Speaker C: Or they'll maybe instead they'll just drop a colony on you. [00:13:57] Speaker B: I was gonna say that's what. Yeah. Hathaway 2 was crazy because it said it has clips from Australia. And get this, it's not about a colony drop. It's actually just showing locations in Australia instead of just blowing it up. [00:14:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:14:16] Speaker B: Oh, man. But that's OG Gundam. That's OG Gundam. That does that for Zeta Gundam. This show, the original show aired in Japan initially in 85. Correct. Went to 86, about 50 episodes. It was basically, I think we talked about the compilation films with OG Gundam. OG Gundam comes out. It's not able to do the entire run that Tomy wants, but he's able to find a good stopping point for it. It builds, you know, this fan base over time and to the point where they're like, well, we can build off of this by basically just re releasing the show but as compilation films and also do new animation and put it together as a film trilogy. And that is Game Busters when that happens. And that was enough to really gain the popularity to lead into Zeta, which I will say now we'll see a good baseline. Do we all agree that Zeta is better than OG Gundam or do we have OG Gundam over Zeta in the chat? [00:15:19] Speaker A: I. I think for me, I have to say it is better, but it's kind of like it's better in the way that Empire Strikes Back is arguably better than the original Star wars in that, like, you have to have the first one to build onto it. But the way it builds onto it, like, it's like you say kind of, you know, like going from like Sha to Hathaway. It's just like, oh my God, this was good. And then, oh my God, now they're doing all this extra stuff. And it uses the levers of like the existing character relationships like so well. Like all the stuff with Shar and Amuro in Zeta is like, you know, like top tier. But it only works if you have like the previous X many episodes of them trying to kill each other and you know, the way they're able to move that relationship. So for me, it is definitely like, it's the best, but it's also the best because it can pull on all these other aspects together, which is kind of a. Like a yes and no answer at the same time. [00:16:06] Speaker D: But yeah, I mean we. I started showing the original to my 7 year old. I mean that got derailed by everything else we're doing. But like there's. I mean he's curious mostly about the stuff from Zeta because that's the imagery that's like on my wall because I. Sure it's better. But like there's like Alex said, it just doesn't exist without the original. So it's a hard question. The original's compilation films are significantly better than the translation. So if you want to compare those, like there's no question. [00:16:39] Speaker B: Oh no, that is straight up hydrogen bomb versus coughing baby type. Like, I think, like, yeah, there it's. Well, it's also clearly different intentions. Like that original compilation trilogy is just basically trying to get more butts in seats for people to actually get to watch the thing they probably weren't able to see when it originally aired that they're now just curious about. And with Zeta, like, yeah, 20 years later, to do these films, and not only 20 years later, but to basically significantly cut down so much of Zeta for these three films. Films. Because the crazy thing too is all three of the OG Gundam compilation films are about what, nine hours? Almost like. [00:17:22] Speaker C: Yeah, they're like two to two and a half hours each. [00:17:25] Speaker B: Yeah. With like the third film nearly pushed in three hours. And so like initially when I think we were talking about this because basically, Alex, at a certain point when I. I don't think I even told you this, maybe I did. But like when I started really getting into Gundam and I told Andy about it, Andy did what everyone does when you're into Gundam and said Gunpla question mark. [00:17:46] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:17:46] Speaker A: And I said. [00:17:48] Speaker B: And I said that is a slippery slope that I would fall into and drown immediately if I dive into that. So I will do something that is clearly the better decision or totally not any less financially stable. And that is try to get all the UC on like physical disc on media like Blu Ray. [00:18:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:09] Speaker B: And so I've kind of gone back and forth trying to get Gundam Origin on Blu Ray is an absolute mess right now. And I assume it's because they're doing. I think they're doing compilation films for that. Or at least they've announced that. [00:18:21] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I. I will say I have the same goal on Region B, because discs, which I have actually managed to do, but Origin on Region B is like, you could. I, when I couldn't Walk down to the store because no one sells physical media anymore, but you could walk down to the proverbial store and buy it on region B, like, no worries. The one that got me was Victory Gundam, which I had to buy in Japan, but really? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it might depend on the region, but if you've got it, like, I assume everyone here has a multi region player because we're all that kind of people. But Region B origin is definitely a thing. And for compilations, they didn't turn into a compilation film, but they did the thing they did with Unicorn where they cut it into a series, like a 24 episode series of the Red Car. [00:19:07] Speaker B: Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah. [00:19:09] Speaker A: Has a banger opening and that's about all it's got to recognize. [00:19:12] Speaker B: But yeah. So when I, like when I was doing the Physical Media Journey, I came across a new translation and I was like, oh, these are the three films I have been told are notorious for being not a replacement to Zeta. Because most people, when they talk about the OG Gundam compilations, they say this is a solid replacement to the 40 plus run of the original series. And while I love the, the, the 40 plus run of the original series and would highly recommend doing that, if you're listening, the compilation films are a great alternative and honestly have, especially in the third film, some incredible cinematography and imagery that isn't in the original series. And so, you know, hearing that there were Zeta films and that everyone pretended they didn't exist had to make me go like, well, we got to talk about these at some point. That's crazy to have like the show that is like Alex said, like the Empire Strikes Back to this kind of series and be like, ah, we're not going to talk about the fact that they made those into movies. Like, that's crazy. And now we've watched those and it isn't as crazy now seeing all of it happen, especially when we get farther into it. But I will kind of go into it because I feel like, is this, I guess, a good conversation with the four of you? Do, do you want me to go? Are we gonna go through film by film or do we want to like basically just try to say this is the amount of episodes the first film does, this amount of second film does, and just kind of like fly around? Cause there's, there's a lot to talk about here. And if we want to just kind [00:20:47] Speaker C: of go into film though, I mean, I think we can kind of loosely follow, you know, one through three, not have to go beat by beat. Like that. But, I mean, naturally, this conversation is going to flow all the way around the series, and we're gonna kind of, like, bounce back and forth. So, I mean, certainly for structural purposes, we can start with the first one, but who knows where we'll end up? We may end up in. In Double Zeta for all we know. [00:21:15] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. Alex, have you watched Double Zeta? [00:21:18] Speaker A: Oh, no. My Internet connection's bad and I can't respond. No, No, I haven't. And that's my biggest. My biggest compl. Kind of like, shame. I know, because I had. [00:21:27] Speaker B: No. It's like. [00:21:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I had a friend who was like, my friend who originally got me into it. He was like, oh, you know, just, like, skip Double Zeta because it doesn't have Char, it doesn't have ammo. And, like, as, you know, a huge. I will say I'm a huge fan of Char as a character. He's the great kind of, like, character that you shouldn't, like, personally endorse. But, like, he's always fascinating to watch. The idea of him not being in a show and then, like, the subsequent movie being the end of his story. I was like, well, I gotta. I just gotta go there. And also, I think it's probably. From what I've seen, like, the tone shift is probably blown off a little bit more than it really is. But also, like, Zeta's tone is so good. Like, so grown up, but not, you know, in, like, a patronizing way. It's just really good. And then Double Zeta being like, oh, we gotta go lighter again is like, that's not really where I wanted to go from the end of Zelda. [00:22:12] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:22:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:12] Speaker B: No. [00:22:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:13] Speaker A: So, yeah. So I do. I do have it on Blu Ray, and I do intend to watch it, but I have. For my sins, I have not yet. Sorry for that one. [00:22:21] Speaker C: You're not alone in your sins. I think Logan is the only one [00:22:24] Speaker B: of us who's watched it, which is crazy. I thought it was gonna be because when I watched Double Zeta, I was just like. Because Andy was just like, I have no time for this. I don't want to watch this right now. [00:22:35] Speaker C: Well, I mean, I pretty much skipped it. Not to throw you under the bus, but on Alex's recommendation, that's okay. And just never circled back to it. [00:22:44] Speaker B: But also, at the time, I think when I started watching Double Zeta, you were watching Ibo, and you were like, whatever, I'm watching Ibo. That's more important. And I was like, that's fair. That's whatever. But yeah, double gosh, now I lost my train of thought. [00:22:59] Speaker C: So Double Zeta. [00:23:00] Speaker B: Yes, Double Zeta. That's what we're going to talk about. I'm just going to talk the whole time. But to start off with Hairs to the Stars, it is, I would say of the anime compilation films, like it's in terms of just other series. This feels like what I was expecting the most, I guess in terms of like the best case scenario in a way where like the first film does about the first 14 episodes of the show. Loosely, of course, because it's a 90 minute film doing 1422 minute episodes. Really fast. So fast in fact that the film doesn't even show the inciting incident. As to why Camille is really involved with all of this. It just hard cuts to him being interrogated. Instead of showing that the whole reason why the everything happens in Zeta is because a dipshit with blonde hair called Camille a girl because he has a girl's name, he punches him. [00:24:02] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. This movie wastes no time in showing you that like not only doesn't have time for everything, but it's like making surprising deliberate choices to leave critical information out. And so I don't know, I assume all of you would agree with the assessment that like even having watched Zeta, these movies feel at times like watching the compilation for something you've never seen before. [00:24:31] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:24:32] Speaker C: Because they leave out so much context, it's like hard to keep up with. [00:24:35] Speaker D: Feels like listening to a record that won't stop skipping and like the record you've listened to a thousand times and still it is. [00:24:44] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:24:45] Speaker B: I mean if you, if you're a Gundam fan that has said, I don't really like the slow parts of Gundam. Well, good news. Zeta Gundam compilation film trilogy is the answer to that. Because anytime my brain goes, oh yeah, that's a good slow character moment. After this one big scene, we are immediately cutting two episodes later to the next big part moment. [00:25:07] Speaker C: Yeah, [00:25:10] Speaker A: I think, I think that's definitely the case. And I, I think it also wears off as the film's going. Like in the first one I was kind of like, yeah, this is the highlights. This is awesome. Like, you know, here we go, Camille's like fighting people. This is great. And there's like, I think I'm reminded a bit of what George R. Martin said about like Game of Thrones in terms of like the changes where they make small changes in some parts of the shows and it like blows out later in the season. And it feels like that with this Zeta movies where it's like, in the first one, the small changes are really, like, only a few small changes, and it doesn't feel as noticeable. And then by the end, like, see, like, you know, characters are just. You don't see them. Like, you know what happens to them. And so I think that's why, like, the first one, I remember, like, when I was rewatching it, like, saying to you guys, oh, wow, like, I'm actually really enjoying this because it's like, it's a fun, like, you know, short way to revisit Zeta. And then by, like, the third one, I'm like, oh, my God, what is happening anymore? Yeah, I felt like falling asleep and then, like, waking up and, oh, like, oh, I slept for an episode. [00:26:08] Speaker B: I mean, it. Yeah. I mean, at least with the first one, I feel like it is just kinetic enough that you are getting to a point. Especially even though we are aware of the narrative. I could see somebody at best case scenario who has no idea what's going on. Being like, what I'm seeing at least is very pretty. The music rips, the action's great, and, you know what, something's going on. But I'm having a fun time, I think. And that's kind of like the base level at times of this. And I will say I want to. I want to ask the question about the added animation. That's probably one of the biggest notorious things about the compilation trilogy is that, like, OG Gundam compilation trilogy, there is new footage, but instead of it feeling like, oh, this was made back in the 80s and now they're just adding it later, this is unapologetically 2004 animation added into a 85 series. [00:27:07] Speaker C: Yeah. The difference being between new animation two years later versus new year new animation 20 years later. Yeah. It's certainly, I think, the most jarring in this film, the cuts between old and new. But, yeah, I want to hear from you guys how you feel about it, especially Alex, with you having revisited it, I think. [00:27:34] Speaker A: I don't know. I like it just. It feels extremely tomino, like, coming back to it. So I checked, and I first rewatched the first watch these back in 2018, which is kind of horrifying. I was like, I watched these eight years ago go like, what? But, like, I found it really jarring the first time. I think the second time watching these, it was less jarring just because I was expecting it more. But I did kind of like having hopefully amped my, you know, movie reviewing, you know, abilities up a little bit. I did kind of notice some of the More bizarre elements. Like, occasionally there'll be like a 2 second new animated shot. And I'm like, why? What? Why? Like, you know, it's. And I think, you know, it does help you appreciate Zeta's original animation a lot because it looks so good. Like, even though it's quote unquote old, like, it looks just fantastic and I don't know, like, it just, it adds a bit of charm to some extent. But I think it's just because I've kind of given myself over to like Tomino's like idiosyncrasies and that. Like, sure, why not? Like cut it up, you know. Like, I think it speaks to kind of what he's trying to do with the film as well is that it's not really him kind of, you know, trying to do the same goal as the original compilation trilogy. It's him just, oh, I want to do another story with Zeta and I've already got the bits that I've got and the bits that I don't have. I'm just gonna like, make them up. But then they'll do stuff like with Shara, we were saying, you know, this morning, almost like with Shar and Amaro meeting for the first time at the end of the first movie, he's like, oh, no, I want to redo this bit. Like, I really, really want to redo this bit. But then Camille can fight some mobile suits and they can use the original animation. I don't mind. But it's. There's some truly bizarre additions as well that he decides to put in. [00:29:11] Speaker B: I will have to say. You keep saying Char and Amuro medium. What you mean to say is Quattro Bajini. [00:29:16] Speaker A: Oh, sorry, yes. They cut out the bit where Akai has the famous he is a Shah letter, which is really good. I was like, oh, they didn't animate that. But yeah, like, I. I think it's not as. I think some people like, it really throws them off and it personally doesn't frustrate me as much, but I think you kind of have to wholly know what you're getting into, which is just this is Tomino doing another version. Like, it's in the subtitle, right? It's a new translation. It's just him doing another version. And I'd be curious to know the behind the scenes stuff as to why Bandai gave him enough. Like. Like, did they say, here's your budget and he chose where to put it? Or did he say, I just want to reanimate these scenes and they Said, sure, go ahead. Like, I'd be fine. Fascinating to know the backstory behind that, but I just haven't been able to find anything myself. [00:30:05] Speaker B: I mean, if anything, the positive, at least with the intention of the new animation, is that they don't. There's like kind of the risk of over designing such classic Designs in the 2004 animations. And I think they just simplify the new animation enough in terms of the design wise that it doesn't take away from the classic look and feel. It definitely isn't as well designed as Zeta is, but that's just hard to do. Like, try to catch that lightning in a bottle again. But I do kind of appreciate kind of when they would cut over. I kind of. Because it is jarring at first. I do agree with that. And I do think it's at its most jarring when it's like there's. There's a scene, I think, in the first film where Quattro goes into an office, tells a guy to translate something in new animation. And as he turns and opens the door, it goes into 85 animation. And I'm like, you just animated that in 2004. There's nothing you could have re, you know, dubbed to fit that. This is what you wanted to do with that money. But if anything, it is. It's fascinating, for sure. Like, just seeing the parts that are, like, mixed in that are added as well as, like, reanimated. Because later on in the films, we do get, like, reanimated sequences, which is kind of fascinating. [00:31:29] Speaker C: Yeah. And the. I mean, the interesting thing about the new animation with the first one, which is, like you guys said, they do these really tiny clips, like tiny cutaways to new animation that I think those are the most jarring bits in the trilogy is when it's not like, okay, this scene is gonna be reanimated and then we're gonna go back to old animation for the next scene. It's like, shot, reverse shot is cutting between art styles. And I think I could be wrong on this, but, like, the way I remember it, it feels like the first film has the most of that because I think the second and third just have more new animation. Overall, I think it increases as it goes to the point where the third one feels like. I don't know if it's mostly new animation, but, like, it feels like a good chunk of it. [00:32:17] Speaker D: The third one is so many, you know, action sequences that are new animation. [00:32:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:22] Speaker D: Whereas the first one has the burden of having all of the exposition and it feels like in his. His rush to try to convey as. Do as little exposition as possible. [00:32:34] Speaker B: Yeah, like, because I think. Yeah, yeah. Because the two longest. In my head, the two longest new animation sequences in Heirs is the scene where Rekua is telling Emma about how up Titan is with the. Basically taking the mummified Texas Colony episode and putting it on a screen saver and just being like, this is. This is. This is what you should be aware of. And then after Camille's. After Camille definitely accidentally killed his dad, like, sitting. Sitting in, like, those, like, diner booths in that room. And they're having, like, the. Have you ever heard of this cool guy named Char Asnobul? Like, that. That conversation. Those are like, I think the longest sequences with new animation, like, without cutting between stuff. Three also has, like, the layering of the old and the new, which is the craziest. There's like a shot of old. Old Haman, but new animation with Z on, which is kind of crazy, but we'll get to that later. [00:33:32] Speaker C: But I mean, which, honestly, I kind of wish they did more of. And maybe they did do more than I noticed. And, you know, hats off to them if they did. And I just didn't pick up on it. But that would have been cool to see. Is more like, okay, well, we have these assets already, but let's just plug in, you know, to fill gaps or to update little pieces. But they do do that in a lot of sequences. A lot of, like, the mech action sequences. They'll have new animation for the fights that are going on on screen. And then they'll do the insert kind of cutouts of the pilots, and it'll be the pilots from 85. And I don't know that I think works. Cause it just. I don't know, the melodrama of UC Gundam. And, you know, they always. All of the insert shots of pilots are always so heightened and so reactive that, I don't know, that kind of older camp really brings me back into it. I'm like, yeah, okay, this is still Zeta, even when it looks different. [00:34:35] Speaker B: Yeah. The trilogy's favorite thing to do is to either have old animation, but CGI computer screens or new animation and then just like the crustiest 85 footage to show what's going on in space at the same time. And honestly, more power to them. That was. That was always delightful to see when they would just try to flare that in. But yeah, we. We see this. The movie starts pretty similar to how the show starts in terms of when we meet Quattro. And the A. And in terms of getting the black Gundam, Camille, of course, is a different introduction, but at least he. They show his whole terrorizing the Titans base and just being like, I'm powerful now. I'm in a Mark 2 Gundam. And then it's like, hey, kid, you want to come with us? And then do that in, like, 10 to 15 minutes. And then we just speed through the next, like, 12 episodes to the degree that it makes sense in a lot of ways. In terms of just, like, not saying we. I don't want the moments to, like, really, you ruminate on Camille's parents when they pass away. Both of those moments are hardcore in the original series. And I think in this, when it happens, they still kind of have the initial impact. But since we have to get this done in 90 minutes, that impact goes away, like, maybe seconds after because they have to get to his dad dying. So they have to really speed to that fight. There are, I think, it immediately, at least in the first film, because I do. I do agree with what Alex said earlier about just, like, you know, the little changes that ultimately don't seem like much now but come to bite the films in the ass later. And a big one is Jared, because I think you see a lot of that later on. But at least in this first film, you could already tell that he's gonna have a vastly smaller role in this translation that he does in the show to the degree where. Because we mo. [00:36:40] Speaker A: We. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Andy and I only watched the third film together, and I think when we watched that film together, we were surprised when Jared showed up. Like, I think that's. That I think shows the night and day of that versus, like, watching the show in real time. Like, watching his impression. [00:36:56] Speaker C: Well, in the show, he's basically the foil to Camille. Like, he's. He's Camille's direct rival kind of throughout the thing. And, yeah, he's a. His. His introductory scene in this first film is cut and only referenced through a flashback later. And then I. I just. I barely remember him in most of 2 and 3 until the end, which is, like, fine, I guess. But that is something that this trilogy does a lot of, where it'll cut out the bulk of a character or of an arc, but for some reason still feels the need to have the conclusion of that arc present. And it's like, why is this here at all? We put no time or effort into that character. [00:37:44] Speaker A: I mean. Well, sorry, go. [00:37:46] Speaker B: No, you go ahead. [00:37:47] Speaker A: I was gonna say, like, I think that's one of the, like, the best things About Camille and Jarrah's relationship in the series is like, they do start off as rivals, and then kind of as it goes along, like, as Camille gets more powerful and, like, Siriko and the other, like, you know, antagonist loom, like, you kind of get Jared being put in his place a little bit, where it kind of, like, culminates with him being like, camille, I'm gonna fight you. Camille's like, ah, you know, whatever. Like, he just. He's not even, like, strong enough to try. But that kind of ongoing thing of, like, Camille, you know, like, killing off Jared's loved ones as Jared does the same to him. And I feel like that they still bring that up in Zeta, but it's just kind of like Jared will just. Now Jared will just pop up with, like, someone, and you're like, oh, did they introduce them? And then Camille will kill them, and [00:38:25] Speaker B: you're like, oh, they're gone. [00:38:26] Speaker A: And then Jared will go away for the rest of the movie. So when he kind of shows up at the end and he's like, I'm gonna kill you. You killed all my friends. And Camille's like, oh, you're still here. Like, you kind of don't get that feeling of, like, you can understand why Jared would feel outraged that someone who has killed so many of his friends would kind of disregard him. But in the movies, that kind of just, like, peters out, and you're like, oh, did he die in that bit? Well, he's gone now. [00:38:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:47] Speaker B: Yeah. It's almost like they asked Tomino, like, hey, is it okay if we cut down Jared? And they're like, yeah, that's fine. Just make sure you kill all of his lovers. Still make sure they all die. Exactly how I remember it being. [00:39:00] Speaker C: I really hate that Jared guy. [00:39:02] Speaker B: Yeah, he needs no development, but everyone dies around him is what I need. I mean, I. I will say, I think at least when we get through all the episodes and we get to Earth and we get to, like, where part one ends, I would argue. I don't know if that's really going to be an argument, but, like, I think part one ends perfectly where it should in terms of, like, narratively, like, the new animation with the. The Quattro and Amro meeting each other and then Omro, just two old lovers seeing each other and Omro just calling him Char when Camille sees him, while Cots tries not to die in the background on his glider, like, just to be like. Just be like, this is honestly the best place to end this first film. Especially, you know, they do I mean, again, they speed through, Jabra. They speed through. [00:39:56] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:39:57] Speaker B: Evan's face is gonna be the best part of talking about all these skips. Evan, do you have anything to say about Heirs to the Stars that we haven't said? [00:40:05] Speaker D: I haven't watched Zeta Gundam in four years. [00:40:09] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:09] Speaker B: And. [00:40:12] Speaker D: And I remember enough of it, but I had to go remind myself and look up episode descriptions because I was genuinely perplexed for the entire time. So I knew what was happening. I could remember what was happening. Then I was like, am I. Am I missing something here? And, I mean, I was. Because, like, half of the show is skipped over. Like, all of the character development is skipped over. Introductions are skipped over. It was. It was an experience to watch these. It was harder than I expected. Like, it wasn't so much a. Some of it's a pleasant trip down memory lane, but then other parts are like, I. It's just difficult. [00:40:56] Speaker C: So I'm enjoying you. [00:40:58] Speaker D: I'm enjoying you guys making it make more sense for me. [00:41:06] Speaker A: I do love stuff like how, like, one of the things I loved about original Zeta Gundam is, like, Amuro's Journey and that. It's very not what I initially expected from him, like, post, you know, One Year War. And it's like, oh, you know, the feds are, like, kind of just keeping him caged up, and he's kind of going along with that on purpose. And. [00:41:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:21] Speaker A: I just love how, like, the first Zeta Translation movie, he's just like, they had the meeting with Frore and everyone's coming, and they're like, you got to do something, Ammo. And he's like, I don't know. And then the next scene, he's just like, let's go. [00:41:32] Speaker B: Like, going. And you're like, oh. [00:41:33] Speaker A: Like, where did that character beat go? And he's like, we're just going. And then I completely forgot. He doesn't show up in the third movie at all until the end. He kind of looks up and he's like, oh, that sorted itself out. Like, whoa. Like, what happened there? [00:41:47] Speaker C: Yeah. And wasn't that a. That was an entirely new sequence. [00:41:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:51] Speaker C: In the third film, they were like, we need to remind people Omro still exists. [00:41:57] Speaker A: So I think, yeah, it's that. It's just that stuff of, like, it's not too bad at the start. It just gets kind of more and more egregious. But I do think that's the right place to end it. I will say that I hate the new Zeta songs. I like the Gap, the gapped ones that They've got it gapped is like very, very mid 2000s. And it doesn't fit the tone at all. And they're not even like, I'm. I'm not what you would call a gak fan. I have listened to Gacked in the past and I do not think those are even good gak songs. So it's just kind of like you have these great amazing like openings and closes and they go so well. And then it's just like, oh, just throw some 2000s J pop on top, like, whatever. [00:42:40] Speaker B: Because Andy, Andy told me, Evan, that you have told him in confidence that you believe that Zeta is. Zeta is one of your favorite scores of all time. [00:42:49] Speaker D: I lose track. Have I never expressed that to you? [00:42:52] Speaker B: I don't know if you have fully. Maybe. Maybe in passing. I don't know the amount of. The amount of new type bullshit conversations we've had. It might have been. [00:43:00] Speaker D: Well, they do maintain some of the. The score in these movies, which is. Yeah. [00:43:06] Speaker C: Oh, most of it, I think, like, is preserved. Yeah. [00:43:09] Speaker D: The Zeta songs from the original show aren't even on the Blu Ray releases. Right. They have standard music there too. Right. [00:43:18] Speaker A: I think that's because of licensing deals. [00:43:21] Speaker C: Like the Blu Rays of the original series. [00:43:24] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. They play. They have the original opening, but they play like just some of the, like the battle music over the top, which is a very weird feeling because, like kind of, you know, giving like Quattro, giving his like glasses down, like, look, it hits really well with the opening. And then on the Blu Rays, it's just kind of like in the background. You're like, oh, okay. [00:43:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's the AU theme. [00:43:45] Speaker C: Because when I watch pretty much the [00:43:47] Speaker B: AU theme because when I watch it on Funimation, that was where I was like, oh, this doesn't hit like the OG Gundam opening, but this is like more serious. [00:43:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:56] Speaker B: And then Andy would just. Andy would just not stop talking about the opening to Zeta Gundam. And he played it for me once and he didn't realize that I had. That was the first time I had ever heard that. And I said, oh, this is a banger. This makes sense. This is what you've been talking about. [00:44:10] Speaker C: Well, because I think the. Yeah, the original Japanese audio includes like the original Japanese songs. And then it's on the dub that they switch it to the North American opening. But yeah, man, that. What's her name? Like Mommy Ayukawa or Akayuma or something. Who does the. The first opening song of the series, which actually, fun fact is A Neil Sedaka song. Yeah, actually, I think maybe both of them are Neil Sadaka compositions. And Tomina was just a big Neil Sadaka fan, so he had. Or they had, you know, Japanese covers recorded for the series, which is just fun. [00:44:54] Speaker D: I had no idea. That's so strange. [00:44:58] Speaker C: Well, and, I mean, Char Osnable's namesake is a. I think a French jazz singer. Charles Asnavore. Gosh, Tomino, he's just a music man. [00:45:11] Speaker B: Listen, he hates women, but also loves music, so you have to give him credit for that. Oh, [00:45:20] Speaker A: yes. I was just thinking about poor Ricko as already poor storyline. [00:45:24] Speaker B: Oh, my Lord. [00:45:24] Speaker A: And how it gets treated in this one. Good. [00:45:27] Speaker B: Alex, you are. You were in the room with the biggest Rekoa hater you could probably find. I was so pissed in the OG Series, I was like, there's nothing. Oh, man, this woman has so much potential. Why would you do this? And at least with the compilation films, they go, we're not going to give her any potential. We're just going to do what you're aware of. And it's like, okay, I guess that's fine. I will say in terms of like. Yeah, because narratively, it's. These movies are completely changing so many things because it has to get through 50 episodes in the span of four and a half hours, which is crazy to say out loud, but they do [00:46:04] Speaker C: that technically well, and not not only changing things, but truncating the things that they don't change so much that they're barely able to, like, you can barely comprehend them, even. Like all of us, if you've seen the original series. [00:46:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:21] Speaker C: Which is. It's. It's baffling at times. I do want to. We can. We can move on to number two. But I do want to leave off at least a positive note on number one, because I feel like this is maybe the only one of these three where I feel this way. But I do think to its credit, Heirs to the Stars, despite its breakneck pace and some of the jarring animation cuts, does feel, at least for a veteran, at least for somebody who has watched and loves the original series. It is like a fun, nostalgic, quick way to kind of dip your toes back into this thing that you love. And I think in some ways, if that's the goal, if it's like, oh, I love Zeta, I just want to be back in the Zeta world. It's a good enough time for that. Whereas the first maybe dozen episodes of the show are actually kind of a slow start. I mean, Logan and I have a friend who is currently watching Zeta for the first time, and he's like. He's kind of lost because the show sort of drops you in without a lot of context and kind of piecemeals it out as you get deeper in, but also doesn't have like a ton of direction outside of. Camille's a little shit who winds up in the middle of this military conflict because he hates bullies. And I feel like the movie, you know, with some major concessions, manages to kind of breeze through that in a way that feels like, okay, I'm like kind of up to speed very quickly and we're in the middle of it. And so I appreciate it. Just as a veteran, as a fan of like, you know, this is a very easy way to dip my toes back into this world that I love. And the other two films, that feeling of novelty kind of fades. [00:48:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:24] Speaker B: It is something where Heirs to the Stars does have this energy of, oh man, do you remember that big moment? Just imagine when that next big moment halfway through the series gets animated again. Imagine when we talk about this when we do that. Oh, man. And to get into A year later with lovers to go from Hairs to the Stars as a subtitle to just Lovers. I mean, it's not entirely incorrect. There are technically six couples on display in this film. There's not. They're not given any development, but they're there. I mean, they're just kind of. They're there. They. The main couple, though, that should probably get the most love is unfortunately the one that I feel like gets rushed the far the fastest, which is, of course the relationship between Camille4 Murasume, who is such a big part to Camille's development in the show, and also I would like to bring up with Camille is that with the first film, it feels like since it cuts so much of Camille being against being a part of the Ayug, not because he hates what they're fighting for, but more the fact of, like, Camille being like, I'm a child, I don't want to be here. Like, I'm glad you let me be mean to people, but I don't want to be on the ship I. And anymore. When they cut so much of that from that first film, it does have the energy that Camille is more of a freedom fighter energy than he actually is in the original series. Which is why when we get to this movie and we have like, they have the iconic, you know, Camille in New Hong Kong with four when they're on the rooftop and it's like I just hate the auk. I just don't want to be there right now. It's like, where's this coming from? What do you mean? You've been killing people for the last 90 minutes, Mr. You should be a part of this team. [00:50:19] Speaker C: Well, I mean, yeah, in the show, Camille's involvement in the broader conflict for at least the first half of the series, but really kind of throughout the whole thing is almost an act of. He does it out of spite, almost. It's like, I hate everything all of you are doing so much that you're just. You're making me lash out and I'm just gonna. I have to get in the suit and I have to hurt people. And I hate it because all of you are doing it for, like, selfish reasons and you're not considering the. The human casualties. And it makes me angry, so I'm going to attack you. And, yeah, his kind of. I don't know, his youthful arrogance and punkishness is kind of distilled out of this version of the story. And like you said, Logan. Yeah, he kind of feels more like a. Like a well composed. A more well composed, like, revolutionary, which is odd because he's like. He's just a brash kid, or at least he's supposed to be. [00:51:22] Speaker B: Yeah. And also going from the first film, which is supposed to be doing 14, does compiles 14 episodes of the show. Lovers compiles technically 18, which is shows, I think a lot of more of the breakneck pace going forward because three also does that to get to the end, you have to technically compile the rest of the show. And I think it very much feels like they're shoving more in or at least trying to skip through more in Lovers. [00:51:51] Speaker C: Yeah. I think it's also to some degree an issue of the section of the show they're trying to adapt, which is where I run into. It might be difficult for me to talk coherently about this particular movie. So I'm really interested to hear, you know, what Evan and Alex think of this. But to me, it feels like this. The middle of the show is the part that, like, blurs the most in my head, like, of the original series, because there is a lot of kind of repetition in the way that beats play out and like, you know, every episode is, you know, Jared coming to, you know, coming out in a new mobile suit to antagonize Camille and, you know, this and that member of the Ayug arguing over whether what they're doing is right or whether women belong on the battlefield. And Things like that. And it has this kind of cyclical, repetitive nature to where that. That middle bulk chunk of the show was already fuzzy in my brain. So then watching this movie, which is an incredibly truncated, you know, summation of those, it's hard for me to even tell what's changed because I can't really remember how it went to begin with. So, yeah, I don't know how you guys feel about that section of the show. Whereas, like, the end has a lot of the more iconic moments. [00:53:22] Speaker D: Alex. [00:53:24] Speaker A: Well, I think it's. I didn't real, like, the first time I watched this. I didn't get to the end of the credits on the first one. Like, I just stopped at the credits. If you watch the first film's credits all the way to the end, it announces the second title and it says it's lovers, and there's four and belt Orchica there. Yeah. And then I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, they're really gonna focus on them. And then the fact that they kill four in the first 20 minutes, it was just like, I had to, like. And in such a. I don't want to say comical, but, like, it just, like, they speedrun her character development, like, so fast. And I think, like, to kind of say what you were saying, Andy. I agree. Like, for me, it also kind of, like, blurs a bit together. Like, I can remember, like, you know, oh, they're in New Hong Kong, and then now they're, you know, they're on Earth. Now they're back up in space, and Camille gets the zeta. Like, I can remember the rough, landmark moments, but I can't remember, you know, episode by episode. But you can kind of still remember, like, the emotional growth is that, like, you know, Camille at the start of that batch is kind of, you know, still very much a kid at the end. He's kind of, you know, like, grown emotionally and in stature, and he's kind of had to, you know, make more mature decisions and choices. And so again, like, speed running for. In 20 minutes, where it's like, they meet, then she's like, no, I gotta kill everyone. And then she's like, oh, I'm gonna help Camille. And then they newly animated, like, her body just, like, flying through the air. And that's the last time you see her. I was like, what? What? I'm sorry. And then also, like, Beltorchica kind of does nothing as well. Like, she shows up, and then she's like, oh, hey, Amuro. And then, yeah, one of my favorite bits in that, like, chunk of Episodes is where she tells Camille to give Amuro the mark too, because he's the main character. And he's like, what? No, like, what are you talking about? And I think they do, like, a little bit of that in this section. But she. Even then, she's only in it for, like, a tiny bit. I will say that I really love Amuro's fit in the new animation. I was immediately like, how can I get a green polo shirt? And can I pull it off? But I think, yeah, like, it's. It's. It's is a blur, but it speeds up so much. And even just like Camille getting the Zeta, it's like he goes back up and they're like, oh, Aspen. As he has the Zeta, he's like, cheers. And like, that's it. And it's like, oh, okay. And now Far has the. I can't remember the one that she piloted. Sorry. But like, it kind of just jumbles around, like, who's doing what? And then it does record leave at the end of that one as well, is. I can't remember if she leaves it or at the start of the third one. But it just. Everything is just happening so fast. And then. Yeah, I think that's where Dakar is cut out from as well. Is. I think Dakar should be in that third lot. And that's like a huge narrative turning point. And it's not there. Oh. [00:55:51] Speaker B: But I will say, as someone, I guess. I guess I have to fight for the Earth sequences in Zeta because I fucked with those when I went through the series initially. Well, mainly because it, I think, is the most interesting Camille gets, because you see it in this film. But of course, it's at three times speed. But it's this whole segment of, like, they go from a. Which is kind of like they have solid amount of resources to coming back on Earth, which minimal resources to now trying to get back from, like, get back into space. And then there's this whole section in the show which is, I think, like, at least a full solid five, maybe six episodes where Char leaves. Oh, sorry, Quatro. Ah, silly me. When Quattro goes back into space with Cots, with Hayato's. With one of the war orphans who's now one of Hayato's sons. Because not only do we know that Hayato, he's a great dad, but Katzen, I was going to say Shargon, Quattro go up into space, and then it's just Amuro, Bell, Tochica and Camille for a solid few episodes. And that's when the new Hong Kong stuff happens. And the newest stuff for the new Hong Kong is that in the original run, there's a whole episode about Mariah getting kidnapped and they have to get her back. But now in this one, they are just on a ship that Mariah is on and she just is kind of there the whole time. And then she goes, my plane's taking me away. Bye. Here's. Here's Hathaway. There he is. And then they just kind of like leaves. And then like, I think they see the Psycho Gundam before they meet Four. And then Four shows up. Four and Four Camille hit it off. And that's when you realize Four is, you know, the Psycho Gundam. Because another thing too with these films unfortunately is in the show when they introduced the idea of cyber new types, at least when I watched it, I thought that was fucking awesome. But also terrifying because that's the government being like, hey, we will not like officially acknowledge that new types exist, but we are trying to torture children into becoming fake new types in order so we can control them. And the movies just completely pass by that they say cyber new types. I think twice. And then because in the first film, the first film ends with Rosalie, Rosalia [00:58:12] Speaker C: Badam, Rosamia, Rosamia Bottom Rosie. [00:58:16] Speaker B: Bottom Rosie. Bottom Rosie Badam, who is supposed to be later in the show, they mind wipe her into thinking she's like Camille's long lost sister. [00:58:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:58:25] Speaker B: Or like cousin. [00:58:27] Speaker C: And she gets not in the movies. [00:58:28] Speaker B: Yeah, not in the movies. She. She gets a wild ass death in the show. Shows up in the first movie, and then she shows up as one of the ghosts at the end of three, as if she's a big part of the story. Because they don't. And it's, it's just wild to watch two. I wasn't surprised be here. Let me be clear. I think three is the one that surprised me the most because of the final like 20 minutes of the film. But in Lovers anytime it was like, ah, if only we had more time. But I must go. I'm like, yep, that's. That's the compilation films in a nutshell. I must go. [00:59:07] Speaker A: Like, it's. [00:59:07] Speaker B: It's so funny. Like even Rekua in Quattro, we brought her up earlier. She technically is that still with the team at the end of two. But like her only moment in the show, I. In the movie, I think is that she kisses Quattro and then goes, you never take your sunglasses off when you kiss her. Like it says something like that. It's like, because he's so cool, he can. Can't do it. [00:59:29] Speaker A: I think, I think the other bit that, like, reflecting what you guys were saying, the. The other thing that the speed up, sped up pace mucks around with is the, like, logistics. Like, that's one of the things I love about the show is that it does feel very like. Well, it's, you know, it's the real and the real robot and that. Like, oh, we're on Earth now. We got to get up to space. Like, you can't just, you know, point the Gundam up and fly. You have to do all these logistical things. But, you know, and the reason they're moving the mobile suits around is like, in response to, you know, what's going up in space, what's going on in Earth. But in the show, it just feels like they land, get to Jabra, and it just blows up and they're like, well, we better go back up then. And then, well, we only have one person. Okay, well we'll just grab onto this other thing and fly up. And it just feels like, why did you guys even come to Earth? Like, it was right. What was the point? So I think that's, you know, like, it just feels exacerbated. And same with like. Does the colony drop on the moon happen in the second movie? [01:00:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:20] Speaker A: Or the colony drop. Yeah, like it just. They just speed through it, which is meant to be like this horrifying. Like, oh my God, like the Titans are gonna do a colony drop. Like, oh, oh God, they're gonna do it. Oh, it's fine. [01:00:32] Speaker B: Because 10 minutes later in the compilation film is when they do the bombing. It's like as soon as they, they. Matt, they miss the colony drop. That's when they go, oh, by the way, Sarah just placed a bomb in the pipes that's gonna destroy this whole fucking city. And it's like they just missed, like, how. Why is this not the plan? Why is this why they have so many plans in development? I do think one of the biggest aspects that is like a flaw in all three of these movies, and I guess one has the better option of it, but it is kind of like a. Each film doesn't really have a full blown central antagonist. And if it does, it's very confusing as to, like, why there's so much time put into them when like, you know, the Titans are technically the, you know, the antagonist throughout the whole show, but after the first film, they kind of feel like they're in the background for the most part. And then the third film Just basically almost feels like Haman is the main villain for the longest time until they go. Actually it's Paptimus Shirako. You know, this nice blue haired man from Jupiter who was introduced in the second film but barely used. He's actually the real bad guy you should follow. And it's like, why do I care? He's just a. He's just a beautiful boy that's tricking all these women to fight for him. [01:01:53] Speaker A: Well, I think. [01:01:54] Speaker C: Yeah, sorry, go ahead, Alex. [01:01:56] Speaker A: Oh, I was just gonna say I think like it's the. It's the same problem as before is that like again there's all these like intricate movements of you know, like what's Jericho's game? You know, he's loyal to the Titans, but is he? Yeah, take them over. Like what's he doing? But it just means he kind of just shows up. And then they're like, oh, that man is here. And then he's like, I'm. I'm here to help you. Maybe I'm not like, what? And same with like, you know, Sarah, you know, it's like, is she going to defect to the au Because Emma did. But when she's there for like, you know, two seconds and then she's like, I'm going, I've bombed. I bombed the place. But actually I'm telling you about it because I feel bad. It's just like who. Why are these people doing all these things? [01:02:28] Speaker B: Yeah, because the whole thing when Sarah is introduced in the show is that she's obsessed with paptimas. And then in the second compilation film, I think it's not until her last interaction where it's almost implied that she's into it him. And then when Rea becomes a part of this, not a love triangle, an abuse triangle I guess I'd call it is when she becomes more like jealous about it and talks more about Shirako and it's like, ah, yes, I'm really invested in this. And then you have cots of it all. [01:02:58] Speaker A: Poor cuts. [01:02:59] Speaker B: I hate. I like him. I like that he's back. I like what they're, what they're trying to do with him. But man, that boy, every bad decision. [01:03:12] Speaker A: I am also really sad that they cut like the Amaro, Amaro and Quattro scene where they like share a drink together because it's such a good moment like that you've kind of been waiting like you know, at this point probably you know like 60 episodes plus like you know, the original Mobile Suit Gundam and you're like, are they gonna, you know, try to beat each other up? Like, what's going to happen? And then just of kind. Kind of, you know. Oh, actually, you know, we have this other, you know, different type of relationship. And Char is the character who obviously is always, almost always putting up a front, like, maybe, and kind of seeing him, you know, potentially drop it around Amaro, like, it's. It's so interesting. And I will just say the reason I'm really sad they get rid of Dehydkar is just like. There used to be a really great letterboxd review of Fashar's Counterattack, and I think users deleted their account. And so it went away, which sucked, because it was really, really good. But one of the things they pointed out, because I can't take credit, because I think it's a great point, was that, like, up until Day of Dakar, like, Char has been able to be quattro, and it's kind of like, let him reinvent himself and he's like, you know, he's like, much healthier. He can kind of, you know, just try and be the best version of himself and ever. And all the people he's meeting who know who he is are kind of willing to let his, you know, baggage, you know, like, stay at the door, and he can contribute. And he's. He's fighting for something that aligns, you know, with his values. And then in Zakar, he kind of has to, like, for the sake of those values, throw away all that and say, yes, I am Char and I am all this, you know, and he has to give it up. And arguably that's what puts him on the point, you know, to, like, Shah's counter attack. But the fact that he just goes there in the movie and then they leave and they're like, oh, that was an unfortunate, like, political kind of thing, which is like. It's such a huge moment for, like, the character. It's a huge moment, like, in universe. Like, it's so big in so many ways, and they. It's not even that long. Like, it would have fit, like, for three minutes or something. [01:05:01] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:05:01] Speaker A: Just cannot fathom if why it got cut, if that. [01:05:05] Speaker B: If they had a way they found a way to make the day of the Dakar speech, be the big ending part of two where it's just kind of like. Because, like, two basically just ends with, ah, new zeons here. But it's like, it just kind of [01:05:21] Speaker C: two, like, doesn't have a climax, really. [01:05:24] Speaker B: No. [01:05:24] Speaker C: Like, it doesn't build up to anything or you know, and it's just kind of all set up for what happens in the third film. So I feel like you really could just retool the entire film to kind of build up to Day of Dakar being your third act. Because that, I think that episode surrounding the speech, there's all this, all these. All this chess going on by the Ayug to try and basically prevent the Federation from like canceling the broadcast and attacking the city and all of this stuff. So like, it makes for this perfect little third act spectacle thing. And yeah, just bewildering that it ended up on the cutting room floor. [01:06:04] Speaker B: Just. I mean, it's just. It's like the most noble thing that Char does is just drops, you know, pretends to be someone who does lie to people and then goes, I'm actually a man who has never betrayed any. [01:06:17] Speaker A: Anybody. [01:06:17] Speaker B: I am the sweetest man. And actually, if I took off my sunglasses, you'd know that I'm just the greatest man to live. And you'll see me again in a film in like less than a decade, less than five years. You'll see me again. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's like two, I think is definitely the growing pain start to show almost immediately with trying to just push through the series and cuz like, I mean, it does suck not to have the Amaro quattro, like char scene of them drinking together, but we still get the elevator scene. And honestly, it just makes me want more when you see that scene where it's just like cuz like the. The most fun of the Earth stuff is like, yeah, it's cool to see Camille hang out with these. Like, they're all in their 20s, but they all act like they're old busted dudes that have been in war for like decades. [01:07:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:07:07] Speaker B: But like to have the like the old dudes, like just hang out together and be like, you know, I don't want to go to space. Oh, it's because you'll see Lala again. Like just how confident and how just completely off the cuff that conversation is and how it's just like, this is the stuff I liked about the Earth. Because like, that's also, you know, when Hayato and yeah, like I think Alex said, like the Kai with the char letter and like I Kai, a character that I don't really love in OG Gundam comes back and Zeta as just an absolute fucking beast for like his five episodes he's in and he's like the first guy of the OG Cast to be like, hey, by the way, that guy that looks like Char in sunglasses, I think is Char in sunglasses. [01:07:51] Speaker C: Well, the funniest part about that is, like the undertone, like when he comes to everybody else and is like, hey, guys, I've been doing a lot of investigative journalism and I've figured out that Quattro is actually sharing. By that point, everybody's already like, assuming he's sharp, whether they know or not. [01:08:08] Speaker B: And the only reason why Hayato hasn't figured it out is because he's 3 foot 8 and just can't see past the sunglasses. He just sees up there and that's all he looks at. And it's funny too, that, like, the first film ends on, I think the last line is Camille going, so that Char. That's Amaro and Char, like, he's finally just said that that's Quattro's real name. And then he never really says Char again until probably. They don't really discuss it until maybe three when they go to. When they go to see Haman. And yeah, that's when they start doing all that. [01:08:43] Speaker A: I will say the other major thing they cut from two is like the Kilimanjaro sequence, which is where four is like, I'm pretty sure that's where she originally dies. And it does feature the great bit of like, Camille kicking, like, crutch dared on crutches. Such a great moment because it's like, he's so petty about it. Like, he's like, ah, just get the out of here. But I think, like, that also has a really good moment from what I remember of like, Amaro and Shah working together to, like, save Camille. And they pretty much explicitly say to each other, like, we need to stop Camille ending up like us. And I just love that they're both kind of self reflective enough to be like, we're both kind of, you know, fucked up in different ways. And it goes well with the whole theme of Zeta of like, you know, conflict not ending, but like, you know, generations trying to stop future generations being caught in that conflict. And they're trying to, you know, like, they're older now, they're trying to clean up their mess. And, you know, it kind of also helps, like, you know, that's how they end up working together because they can both agree, like, we got to help, you know, the new generation from being, you know, crushed. And that, yeah, that kind of all going away just feels like such a raw deal. Such a raw deal. [01:09:47] Speaker B: And. [01:09:47] Speaker C: Well, and it's, it's. We're all kind of heartbroken over the Shar Amuro, stuff that gets cut. But you know, who's not Tomino? Because Alex shared with us this interview that Tomino did, I think at the time of when Zeta first came out or shortly after, where like, the interviewer is basically asking him like, you know, well, what, what, you know, why didn't you have Amuro do more? And Tomino's basically like, I didn't really want to put him in at all. I wanted to kill him off immediately. I don't like him, but I couldn't find a good way to do it. Or Amuro isn't the type of guy who would die a pitiful death, I think is what he said. So I couldn't figure out a way to write that. And then he basically says, I felt the same way about sharing. So it's, you know, I guess it makes sense that the guy who hated his two, you know, biggest characters in the franchise would return and kind of reduce their role or at least their shared arc. In his edit of his own work, [01:11:03] Speaker B: he has of the little. Because I. Yeah, right before we started recording, they sent me me that interview and just any little I get of Tomino. He has strong John Carpenter energy. When he has any conversation where it's [01:11:18] Speaker C: just like, I don't give a Tono [01:11:20] Speaker B: would be like, I would put every single OG cast member who is returning in front of me and I would blow their brains out if I had a chance, one by one. If it really made you that, if it made you suffer, I don't care. It's like crazy because Zeta has this fantastic. Like the show in general has this wonderful. I think the original cast are. Are included so well because they don't take away from Camille. They don't take away from the Ayug. In fact, it adds that zest in that seasoning. Having these OG characters who were like. Just because they're there doesn't automatically mean they're going to win a fight. Like, they are just as ill prepared at times as the new characters characters are and also are just as fucked up as they were in the last time we saw him. Like Omaro. There's a line in the series which they put in the first film that is absolutely devastating. And I'm like, you could spend so much time on that. Which is Amuro going, yeah, all of my servants and everyone that works for me is definitely part of the Federation, but they're not gonna tell on me. We're practically family at this point. And there's just so many fucking layers to how this guy is like, yeah, everyone's a spy in my vicinity, but they would be nice to me, I think, if I wanted to do something. And then it leads to like, when they have that in the first film, you're like, oh, well, maybe they'll do more with like Beltachica and him in the second film. And also, I'm surprised we haven't brought up the fact that they redo Beltosica's introduction in the second film. It's fucking batshit. [01:12:53] Speaker C: Oh, the way they reanimate her. [01:12:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:55] Speaker C: Flying her plane. Yeah. [01:12:56] Speaker B: Like the way that she's doing this crazy ass flip in a biplane. [01:13:02] Speaker C: She's buzzing around like a bee in this biplane. [01:13:05] Speaker B: She's absolutely insane. And then you just supposed to go, ah, yes, that's Amuro's true love. [01:13:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:13:12] Speaker B: With a. With a star next to it. [01:13:14] Speaker C: Oh, it's the title. [01:13:15] Speaker B: Oh, my God. And then Beltachica. Yeah. [01:13:18] Speaker A: Like. [01:13:18] Speaker B: Like Alex said, like, it's. It has the implication that they're going to use her more, but honestly, they just bring up her worst moments. [01:13:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:25] Speaker B: Just ever be. It's basically her going to Camille, going, stop doing this to Amuro. Like he's doing anything other than just being Camille. It's so funny how many times Camille's is baffled. Like, what are you talking about? He's not even here. Don't talk to him. Don't talk about that too. And then they just leave. Like, like Alex said in the first, like 20 minutes. I think they're. They're out of Earth orbit. And then the next. The rest of the film is in space and it is just. Yeah. Trying to remind people, like, oh, yeah, Katz is here, Emma's here, Reko is here. Fa, who barely is in the first film and is back. [01:14:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:14:12] Speaker B: And since we're never gonna talk about four ever again, because we're not gonna give her actual death from the show. Camille goes, you're my new lover now. And then just like gets real fucking chummy with fall way more than he ever does in the show. Which is so fucking funny is the [01:14:29] Speaker A: second one where she rescues him. And then like they're in the cockpit and he's like, oh, we can't kiss because of our helmets. And I would just like. I was like, what? It feels so out of character for, like, the show, but also like, for Camille. I'm like, why is like, you think Camille would just like, he would probably just say something really mean about like, why did you wear your helmet? You're so stupid. Rather than being like, oh, they're in the way. And they're, like, nuzzling the helmets and this. What. What is going on? Like, [01:14:56] Speaker B: the best part about Camille, too. Yeah. In that original show is just like, Omaro, at a certain point, especially in the first half of the show, becomes like, oh, I have a purpose. People actually respect me. Even as a child, if I have any inclination that they're gonna take me away from this Gundam, I have to fight for my fucking life to get that Gundam back. While as, like, Camille, anytime he would show up in the original show, he'd just be like. He would just have, like, David lynch moments of like, what the hell? No, that's stupid. Get out of here. And then just leave a room. Like, he just. He just had no. Like, he did not care. And I kind of. It is. I do kind of miss that a little bit with these compilation movies, because it is. It is weird to be like, yeah, fa. I wish I could kiss you. And it's like, what? That man doesn't care about interactions. Oh, man. [01:15:54] Speaker C: We might be running toward the end of Things we can say About Lovers, but, Evan, I do want to throw it to you in case there are any major changes or things that stood out to you in this one. [01:16:05] Speaker D: I mean, of the Three Lovers was the one that I found the most perplexing for all the reasons we've talked about so far. [01:16:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:16:12] Speaker D: I have very little to say about it. It was not an unpleasant experience, but it was the one where I was most. Like, I just. I couldn't even give it, like, a star rating on letterboxd. I was just like, yeah. And to some degree, the section of the show where that it bastardizes is. Is the section of the show where I started to become really involved with in, like, really engaged in the show. I can remember watching it back in 2021, and that's where it really clicked for me. And then it became full steam ahead to actually finishing the show after a slow start. So that's all I can say about Lovers. I mean, I have nothing as insightful to say as you guys about that movie. [01:16:59] Speaker C: Well, I think you're absolutely right that it's like, I know I said earlier, like, this is the part of the show that's blurriest for me, but, like, it really is where everything starts to get into motion. And it just feels like of the three of these Lovers is the most. It loses the plot the most. Like, literally and figuratively. It kind of just becomes a jumbled mess. Of all of these arcs that are going on at the same time and one after the other in the show and it's. You lose a lot of, you know, the special sauce that makes the show. [01:17:34] Speaker D: So I always really liked the 4 arc and the introduction of the Psycho Gundam and the Cyber New Types. That's all stuff that becomes. That is interesting lore wise and becomes a reoccurring thing in a lot of the shows and in the manga and in. I recently mostly caught up with the Thunderbolt manga and it becomes a big deal in the Thunderbolt manga. So I was a little disappointed because I was excited to revisit that with this movie and genuinely just. It has nothing to do with anything. They're just like, never mind. [01:18:07] Speaker C: Well, and the concept of Cyber New Types is like such a key piece of what sets Zeta apart as an expansion on the ideas that the first show was dealing with. I mean, just the idea of like manufactured new types and what that says about, you know, humanity's misunderstanding of the revelation of the new type. And also, you know, it's the film having its kind of next stage of conversation about child soldiers and you know, forced, you know, wartime involvement and things like that. It's just like, it's bizarre to see that so reduced. I mean, not even really reduced, like completely left out of this version of the story. [01:18:50] Speaker B: Well, it shows too, because the original, the original series almost treats. Even though White Base is constantly in space. And there are conversations where at least Bright, who is in the compilation movies in this, by the way too. Not a lot. But we haven't really talked about the fact that Bright Noah, our loving leader that is, you know, will always be a rock. [01:19:12] Speaker C: Our forever captain. [01:19:13] Speaker B: Yeah, who also. They can't show Camille's introduction scene, but they can show Bright get his absolute ass beat in that first movie. But in the first like gun, like in OG Gundam, they are like, anytime people talk about new types to themselves that I. It's like, can they be true? But anytime they have conversations about it, they talk about like it's astrology. Like, they're like, don't look too far into this. [01:19:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:19:38] Speaker B: And then Zeta is like the first time. I think the Ayug is so radical because they're like openly talking about like, yeah, we have to just be in space because like that new types have to be the next evolution. Because of course you have. You have Quattro behind it all. The man who believes, believes that the soul of the humanity is being weighed down by Earth's gravity. So like clearly like they're going to fight that. And then you have the Earth Federation pretending and like, as the UC goes on, especially when we get to Hathaway way too. And like, it seems like the more the Earth Federation pushes, no new types don't exist. Propaganda is like, the amount of cyber new types start to multiply consistently with each new series. And it's. It's just fascinating to watch a version of Zeta where the cyber new types are mentioned twice. And like, that's it. It's almost like it is like one of the coolest parts about that so series. [01:20:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:20:36] Speaker A: And can I. Can I just say, one of. One of my favorite things about Char is that he's a very bad new type. Like, I love that he pushes it so much and then he's just like, ah, a new type such as myself. And it's like, oh, you're not really all that, man. Like, just such a nice, like, little, you know, well observed, like, point about him. It's just. Yeah. It's one of my favorite. [01:20:54] Speaker B: So good. It is funny too that at least with the second film, how many times they cut to, like the lover scenes. And it does feel like they look at the camera and go, you know, lovers. [01:21:07] Speaker C: Remember, because this movie is about lovers. [01:21:09] Speaker B: Because, like, towards the end, like, when you're. When you're. I think we all were kind of in the moment of how are they gonna finish? Like, where does this end? There's like a whole sequence where it's like Emma and the new leader of the Ayug where he's like, you know, do you sure you want to go there with the radiation? You might not be able to have children. And it's like, what the fuck? Like, this is an OG series for sure. Like, there's. It's plenty of that type of shit in regular. But it's so wild to just be like, we're. We're running to the end. We are sprinting to finish this off. But at least we have this scene to show. [01:21:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:21:47] Speaker B: Like the fact that La Vie and Rose gets mentioned once, they never talk about it again. Like, it's so. It's funny how much you know, because I will say, like, my experience with compilation films, I think Andy and I actually recently, last year we. Andy was going through Jujutsu Kaisen to catch up to season three. And so we watched both of season two's compilation films in theaters. And that was an experience. Because I will. I will say, while the Zeta compilation films go through it fast, the Jujutsu Kaizen films. Jesus Christ. It is like they do not do anything of the plot of that. So it's fascinating to see like in the last few years just kind of like from seeing OG Gundam compilations to watching these just like the varying degrees of how you can compile a series in this sense and leading into the final. And I would, I would say, in my opinion, the most baffling of the three of the films. Now that we have seen all the lovers, now we have to talk about the essence of what love, which is the pulse of the stars. [01:22:55] Speaker C: Right. [01:22:55] Speaker B: And we have to take the last, the final 18 episodes of the series, cut at least eight of them, and then treat the final like, treat the final three or four space fights as one singular like film. Because they basically cut together like at least seven episodes of fights. [01:23:19] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm currently basically rewatching the last half dozen episodes of the series with my wife Emma because she has been gradually working her way through the series. And we're finally at kind of the final arc. And so, yeah, it was bewildering to fire up Pulse of the Stars. And it's like, yeah, the last 10 episodes are three or four different battle sequences kind of peppered out. And this third movie is essentially cut into like kind of an entire like a film long battle sequence where it just, it feels like all one big fight. Like, oh, we've been building to this and now this is the big fight. But it's actually pieces from four different conflicts that have shit going on in between them. But you can barely tell in this. [01:24:09] Speaker A: Well, I mean, I think it's like how they reveal the grips. Like laser is. It's not even revealed. Like they just shop at the colony. And I was like, did I miss where they like. Because they meant to be like, oh my God, oh my God, they're going to do this and it's going to be horrible. And then it's like, oh, we're at the Griff's laser now and we need to take it over. And you're like, what? Like, did we even find out that the laser existed? [01:24:28] Speaker B: This film is the cinematic equivalent of someone jingling keys in your face for 90 minutes. Like, it is, it is. Like, don't even think about anything that we're cutting because we're cutting a lot. So just keep on watching, Keep watching space. Keep watching the robots. Don't worry about the fact that you don't know any of their names because we haven't said anything about them. Yeah, just watch the new animation. It's cool, right? Haman, she's. She's scary, isn't she Zeon scary, you know, and it's like, okay, that's fine. Let's just get to the end if that's what we're gonna do, if we're gonna play this game. [01:25:06] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:25:06] Speaker A: Because I think isn't. The battles they have is like, axis crashing into. I can't remember what they call it. Like, the gators are done. Yeah. [01:25:14] Speaker C: The Gate of Zidane. [01:25:15] Speaker A: And then. And then it's like the Grips laser battle. But it's all just. I was like. I don't remember them being close to each other. I don't think that happened. And I think, like, one of the reviews on Letterbox that said, like, if you watch this, you think the Grips conflict took place over a long weekend. And I think, like, that, like, that nails it because it's just that feeling of, like, oh, they all just happened to come to this area and then they fought it out and it ended. Rather than that kind of like, again, like, you know, referencing the second, like, film, it's like, you know, the logistics of, like, oh, no, this is happening there, but this is also happening there, and we've got to move there, but we can't stop that. That's why, you know, New Zealand's such a big piece, because they can. They've got all these new resources and they can really influence the outcome. And it kind of starts off like that, and then it just, like, just goes in a completely, like, different direction. [01:26:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So it's. I mean, Pulse starts with the Hamon Karn and the Mineva Zabi, and just the introduction of the fact that it's. Because, again, I think chronologically, I think Andy and I looked this up. When the whole introduction of Haman and Mineva and everything shows up. That's before the speech of Dakar. So this is like, the first time he is openly said in front of the AU team that he is Char outside of, like, Omro or Camille here and there. And. And because I. I just. This part I remember in the show so well because Shar hates Haman so much. And I love it. I love how it's just like, you're using this small little girl as your pariah and I want to ring your neck so much because you're doing that and Maneva's not a big part of this show because basically, I remember in the show they changed in translation, but I think they basically replace her with a double and they let her live a life on, like, a different side, and then you don't see her again until Unicorn I believe I was gonna [01:27:08] Speaker A: say there's a big flashing sign that says, watch Unicorn Gundam. [01:27:11] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:27:11] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [01:27:13] Speaker A: Right now. [01:27:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Unicorn. Unicorn. Unicorn rips. Unicorn's so good. And it is. When we get the Xeon stuff, we get pretty much exactly what we've gotten so far. Jingling keys, really just speeding through all this. We do get, I think, the most hilarious use of the new animation, which is just reanimating. I have never betrayed anyone in full, which is hilarious because that scene is so iconic. You don't have to do that. If anything, they just do it because of course we have to. In their heads are like. It's almost like Tomino wasn't watching for a second and they were just like, okay, let's just animate this. Don't tell him we're doing it. We'll just throw it in. I know he hates Shar, but we can do this. We can throw it in. And then Hamon basically becomes. It becomes the will they. Won't they of Zeon for the majority of the film in terms of who they will fight for. And the answer is everyone. Because when you do this narrative so quickly, it just assume that they never choose a side. That they always just go back and forth every hour. It feels like every hour they choose a new side. And it's so funny when Haman shows up. I think at one point they fight her in the Cuba and then she leaves and she's on their side for a second and then she goes back to being on the Titan inside, which by this point, like, the Titans are practically dead. Like, again, the tight. The Titans being even less of an issue in this one because they've already been blown up because Shirako just went, oops, I wasn't paying attention. Did someone die? Oh, I guess I'm the leader now. And then Paptimus becomes the leader of the Titans and then all of his. [01:29:01] Speaker A: I mean, it. [01:29:03] Speaker B: It is like. Because the biggest thing for me with three is the ending. So before we really talk about that, I want. Is there. Evan? Alex, is there anything from Pulse that like, really stuck out to you? Now that we're like three films deep into just getting to the end, how did it feel to finally be there? [01:29:22] Speaker A: Evan, you need to go first because I've. I've checked. Taken up too much? [01:29:25] Speaker D: No, I. I prefer. I feel like listening to you guys talk about this helps me a lot more. I mean, I was. I had a real problem with all of these. Just that everything is so fast paced and so topsy Turvy. That I continuously had to go back and, like, read summaries. Obviously, the changes to the ending essentially ruin the entire series. And I don't understand. I understand the nature of the project. I understand kind of what he wanted to go for. I understand why he reanimated several of the key dramatic scenes that he still liked, even though he left so many out. [01:30:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:30:13] Speaker D: But I like, I. You know, you compare it to, like, the Evangelion rebuilds. [01:30:21] Speaker C: The rebuilds, yeah. [01:30:22] Speaker D: After the second, he just goes off and makes it something completely different that reflects Anno's, like, change of heart in the time since he made End of Eva. And even though I don't love the changes, I mean, I don't love those movies as much as you guys do. Although I very much respect Alex, why you love those movies so much. Like, I get them. I understand what the purpose was. But like, with these movies, they're so haphazard in combining old and new, even when the new stuff looks great. And this, in this movie, they. The. The new combat sequences. I remember when I first watched Zeta, Alex sent me some of the new combat sequences to show me what the new animation looked like, which is a reason I was looking forward to watching these for so long, because those sequences look really great. They're. They're very cool. [01:31:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:31:19] Speaker D: I still can't wrap my head around, like, the philosophical reason to approach Zeta compilation movies. The way that this is done. Like. Like there's no. There's no followup to this. Right? Like, it. None of the shows follow off of this continuity. There will never be a manga that follows up on the Zeta new translation continuity to explore the implications of the changes to the ending or the changes to the story. So, I mean, finishing this, I was just kind of like, what the fuck? [01:31:51] Speaker B: What the fuck? [01:31:52] Speaker A: Why would you. Why would you do that? [01:31:54] Speaker D: Like, it just. It's very strange to me. [01:31:59] Speaker A: I. I quiet serendipitously as I was eating my lunch while you guys were waiting for me. So, like, a thing on Twitter popped up saying. It was like some interview with Tomino kind of saying, like, you know, just asking him about his. His different projects, and he was talking about Zeta and he said, in Zeta, we emphasize the human drama element too much and wound up with a bleak ending. You know, in. We overcompensated Double Zeta. But he said, in my mind, from Zeta Gundam on, every Gundam story stand on stands on its own, which is a really, like, I think, informs kind of how he looks at this, because he's just like, this is just the Zeta Gundam story. Like, I don't think about it. [01:32:33] Speaker D: Yeah. [01:32:33] Speaker A: In the wider context of the universe, like in this one, Camille. He's fine. He's fine. And that's the end of the story. Like, you know, so I. I agree with you, Evan, that it is really bewildering because there's so much that knocks on from that. And you're just kind of like, is what is Shah's counter attack gonna happen now? Like, is or is he not? Like, would Camille stop him? And I will plug in. Like, this is where you can play the Super Robot wars games, which do really get into this kind of stuff where, you know, you'll have like, CCA Sha and Camille will be telling him, like, ah, I think you're doing is bad. So you can kind of like explore that through the medium of games. But it's a. It's such a bizarre change. And I think, like, again, it's that the pacing just like, really makes it such a different film in that, like the. That end series of battles when a lot of people die. Like, just a lot of people die. And it's really kind of like, some of it's cool. A lot of it's really horrible. And it just kind of, you know, you really feel like what the A is doing in terms of like, they're really properly sacrificing themselves to stop this terrible thing from happening. And then in the film, it's just like, bang, bang, bang, bang. Like, there they all go. And even, like, you know, the Bradish, like, sacrificing itself to, like, save Emma just feels like a really silly moment in the film where it's just like, oh, they're just, you know, like, that's in a military conflict. That's not the play you make. Whereas in the show, it feels much more like, you know, everyone's losing everyone. And it's just, you know, like, we got to try and save as many people as we can, especially the people we care about. And yeah, I just. Nothing, like, hits, you know, I think in the way that it intends to. And it's just. Even funny stuff like Yuzan killing Bask. Like, he just. He just switches up out of nowhere and he's like, I'm gonna kill you now. And he's like, oh, all right. And then anyway, Shirako's leading the times. Oh. And he leads them for about five minutes. And then that's. That's kind of it. Although I must say I did. I did love seeing Yazan get the. The like, kind of scared out of him by Camille activating the Zeta's, like, psycho frame, which is just like, oh, it's so good. And I do think it speaks to some extent of, like, the purpose of these movies is that if I saw that on the big screen, I'd be like, oh, that's. That's what I came here for. But watching it, you're like, yeah, I'll be honest, too. [01:34:41] Speaker D: I mean, Logan, Andy, and I saw the three original compilation films on the big screen, as well as Char's Counterattack, [01:34:52] Speaker A: and I will never forgive you for that, but that's. That's fine. [01:34:55] Speaker D: Yeah. And I. I would go see these on the big screen if they. If they did fathom events, like, me talking shit about them every time I've talked on this podcast, I would. I would go see each of them one after the other, if they did it like they did the other ones. Like. And I. I do wonder if, like, watching these on the big screen would feel more exciting simply for the fact that you were actually experiencing them as they're supposed to be intended, rather than. [01:35:21] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:35:22] Speaker C: Just the pure spectacle of it. Yeah, yeah. [01:35:25] Speaker B: Because it. I mean, it's. In a way, it's understandable to be a creator of a series that there is no way in hell after OG Gundam, he would have expected to get to this point in the 2000s to even get the ability to do this. And you know what? After doing God at this point, it's like, he's already done Victory. They've. They've pretty much. I mean, they did fucking F91. They've done so many different iterations of the UC and even have now fully branched off into things that were arguably more popular than the UC at that point. And to just be able to have that way of just being like, hey, if you want to do something different, you can go for it. And he does it. And. Yeah, I agree with all. I agree with you guys. Like, if these were in the Fathom advance or these were in theaters, it would be like, hey, they're 90 minutes. Like, they're fun. They'd be fun to see in the big screen. But I would also think in my head, the reason why I think Zeta has gotten to the point where I think any company would give Tomino money to do a re translation, like a new translation in my head is because of how it ends in a way, the ending is just go so hard in a way in the original series that it's like. I wouldn't even say it goes too hard. I Think it's just the right amount to make it be like Gundam has a lasting effect and this is a way we could show it. And it just. I think it shows. That proves it even more in this film when they use a lot of the later events, like to go from Scirocco getting stabbed by a Gundam head on to just, like, we're safe, it's fine, we can just love each other in space. It feels so disingenuous, so wild to be like, listen, I'm not saying I want people to be like it sad automatically, but like, right. The reason why we're like pushing people to watch, like, to get to Hathaway is because, like the. That what happens in Zeta amplifies into what goes into cca. And then what happens in Counter Attack is fucking crazy. And so it's like, it just keeps going down that pipeline. And it's like to see the new translation just be like. And yeah, everyone except everyone who died lives happily. [01:37:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:37:47] Speaker B: Ever after. It's also kind of. It's up to have it end on everyone on Earth being like, I hope Cots is having a fun time. But they don't change how Cots dies. They don't even give him the scene in the original series when Katz dies, I think immediately after he dies, or at least an episode after he talks to Camille one on one. And then is like, it's okay, Camille, Heaven's cool. Like, I'm fine up here. [01:38:14] Speaker A: Like, it's. [01:38:14] Speaker B: He doesn't even really get that moment in the movies. Don't even keep that. They just have him go face first into an asteroid and he's gone. Yeah, he's done. And then it ends with Earth being like, katz, I hope you're having a blast. Just so fucked up. [01:38:30] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I mean, we've kind of tiptoed up to this point around the very ending and what it changes. But I think we can go into it just to kind of fully depict all our thoughts on this. But the ending of the original Zeta Gundam series, as Alex described, is kind of this long chain of characters, you know, dying or sacrificing themselves or like kind of just incidentally being taken out in really sort of tragic ways. Like, funny from a detached perspective, but sad and horrifying as you're watching. And it. It culminates in basically as the few remaining figures of the Ayug manage to pull off their kind of meager triumph over Paptimus Scirocco. The ensuing new type shockwave fallout, whatever, ends up scarring Camille with this Essentially, brain damage. And the show kind of leaves you on this note of, well, was it all worth it? Like, what was all of this for? And you're basically left with FA arriving at the Zeta Gundam and finding Camille basically in a totally demented state. And then the show just ends. [01:40:12] Speaker A: It also ends with Neo Zeon, like, having the most power. And, yeah, Shah's mobile suit is completely destroyed and you see his, like, capsule, but that's it. Like, there's not even any. Like, oh, maybe the Aug were pulled together. It's just like, no, they're all fucked and Camille's got brain damage. End of story. [01:40:32] Speaker C: Yeah. And then the film makes the choice to remove Camille's physical and mental trauma at the end and just opts to end with him and FA embracing amidst the aftermath of this horrible chain of events. They're just like, yay, we did it. Like Logan said, you know, we cut to Earth and see all these people being like, I hope it's going okay up there. And I think we exit with another cool Gacked song or something. And it's just baffling. I mean, we've kind of talked in circles about this, but, like, that Tomino would be for the bulk of this, so I don't know non committal about, like, changing the story. Obviously, he's cutting massive chunks out of it and he's rearranging things and he's kneecapping emotional beats, but he's not making drastic changes to, like, tell a new story like Anno did with the rebuilds. Like, oh, we're just going to go in a totally different direction with this and make something new out of it. But then he gets right up to the final moment and is like, nah, that's going to be completely different. We're going to gut the meaning of all of this and have ourselves a happy little fun ending. Uh, it's just bizarre. I mean, especially because Tomino, you know, with what you said, Alex, about how he kind of used each of these as individual stories, he wrote novelizations, like a novelization of Zeta where he did a different version of the story. Like, I haven't read it, it's not been translated, at least officially. But my understanding is, like, similar to the novelizations of the original series, he takes the basic template and runs in a very different direction, tells a totally different story. Characters, fates are entirely different and all of that. So it's just weird to me that he did all that and still felt like, I'll just tell the same basic story with way less detail and Then neuter the ending. [01:42:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it's very bizarre because I think it's interesting touch on Evangelion, both of you. Because I hadn't. I hadn't really had that thought before. And I think it's interesting comparing what happens with Shinji with Camille, because I think. I guess because, like, Anno builds, like, a longer Runway, so he's like, kind of saying, like, this is going to be a different story, but he's still engaging in that meta. Like, you know, Shinji is experiencing trauma, but now he's approaching it differently. And this is what that means. Whereas Camille is kind of like almost the same character. And then it's just at the end, it's like, actually, the cost of war is it's fine. There's no cost. And that's the end. And you're like, whoa, what? Like. And like, I did. I remember feeling so devastated at the end of it. But I, like, if you look, you know, in the Gundam Wiki's, like, Camille, I think even in Double Zeta, he gets a little better and, like, he ends up becoming a doctor or something. [01:43:35] Speaker B: But, like, I don't want to spoil it. [01:43:37] Speaker A: I mean, well, I mean, like. But, like, you know, in terms of, like, the canon of the movies, you know, he's not showing up in CCA saying, like, sure, I can talk you down. Like, it's fine. Like, he's basically off the board, like, from this point. And you feel his absence in terms of, like, God, if Camille was here, he could, like, sort this shit out. And just for it to be kind of like, oh, it's fine. Like, it just. It's such a weird thing because he doesn't, like, you know, have that ending happen 30 minutes earlier. And then, you see, this is the effect from that. It's just like, they're all fine, but it's only Camille as well. Like, Shah doesn't get a nice happy ending. Like, he just gets. The hyakushiki gets blown up and that's it. Like, you know, like, I think the other thing. [01:44:19] Speaker C: Shard disappears from the movie like, 10 minutes before the end. And yes, that kind of happens in the show, too, but at least you get that lingering shot of the floating shiki, which is cut from this. [01:44:32] Speaker A: And then, like, there's a kind of. Kind of little, like, attempt to tie up some loose ends. Like in this one, Haman sends Miniver to Earth. Like, she's like, you're going to Earth to get educated and we'll just be fine up here. And it's like, okay, so you get like a kind of little bit, like, maybe it's going to be fine, but it's just like, it's kind of like they've started it just enough that it's annoying, but, like, it's not enough to be like, I see what you're trying to do differently. It's just like, oh, there's a. You know, there's a slightly different ending, but it just changes everything thematically. Oh, that's all. [01:45:01] Speaker B: This is a. This is a fun writing exercise. Oh, wait, this is theatrical compilation film. [01:45:07] Speaker A: Fuck. [01:45:07] Speaker B: God. [01:45:08] Speaker A: Why would you do that? [01:45:11] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, it's again, all three of these movies at a base level, at a very neuron activated monkey brain mode is very satisfying just because of the animation aspects. And just seeing all these things on the big screen that was, you know, a lot of these scenes were never intended to see on the big screen. So it's kind of really cool to see them be pushed in a theatrical sense. But it is, yeah, just very fascinating how, you know, it made perfect sense once we finished. When I finished the third film with Andy, where I was like, ah, so this is why anytime there's a Reddit thread about, have anyone heard about these new translations? What is this about? And everyone just says, don't even talk to me about it. It's like, okay, I get it. Because even though I don't hate the third film, I do hate how it ends. I do think that it's just like, it doesn't take away from the classic nature of the original Zeta series. And it's, you know, what if Tomino has infinite power and wants to make 87 different new translations, so be it. But it is just fascinating that I think, like, you know, literally it was funny because days before I think we got together to watch the third film, we were pushing our friend who's watching Zeta to be like, listen, you get through the slow parts, because I'm telling you right now, those last 10 episodes are gonna put you on your ass. So you need to, like, build into it. And to watch those last 10 episodes not put me on my ass in this fucking movie made me go, ah, well, it is what it is. It's not the worst Gundam thing I've ever seen, so that's great. It's not even the worst compilation film I've ever seen. It's more just sort of like. I think it's just. It is a bummer. They're not like, these aren't like hidden gems as a whole, but at the same time, I do. I didn't. I appreciated going through this. Like, it was. It was. It was good to remind myself it did give me the Gundam bug again, which it never really goes away, but it does, you know, at the base, at the height of all these movies, I'm like, is it time. Is it time to pick that up maybe, and then just go back to it? [01:47:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:47:16] Speaker B: I mean, it didn't. It didn't get Andy to watch Gundam Wing. So, you know. [01:47:20] Speaker A: Oh, I don't know if you guys saw. They had the results for, like, the ever, like, each kind of, like, language areas, like, favorite Gundam. And it was like, new Gundam was Japan. China was like Freedom Gundam, which totally tracks because China really loves Seed. And then, like, English was like, wing Gundam. And it's like, oh, yeah. Such a. [01:47:44] Speaker C: Thanks, Tuna. [01:47:45] Speaker B: It was so. It was so funny once I revealed to Andy that I was watching Gundam, because I was like, yeah. And you know what? It's crazy because, like, I never really got into the wing craze when that first came out on Toonamic. Maybe you'll give it a shot. And Andy's like, cool, I'm not doing that with you. Damn. [01:48:04] Speaker A: I. I would be really like. I swear this has a connection to Zeta, because, like, in. So Wing Gundam Wing in the west was, like, kind of marketed as a very, like, Linkin park coded for, like, young boys. But my understanding is in Japan, it was very much the opposite because it's like, here's five, like, you know, pretty boys, like, you know, and there's all these promo shots of them wearing, like, you know, their cool outfits, looking badass, you know, And Tomino's on the record, you know, for, like, saying women essentially saved, like, Gundam original because they were the ones who were tuning in to watch it. [01:48:33] Speaker C: Right. [01:48:33] Speaker A: It's such an interesting comparison, but it makes me think in terms of. I have no idea how these movies were marketed in Japan as well, because, like, I agree with you 100%. Logan. That's. Tomino has a very strong John Carpenter thing, is that you could ask him, like, on one day, what do you think of Sharon Emory? Be like, I hate them, and they've ruined my life. And then the next day he'd be like, oh, I love them. Like, they're fine, but I still hate them. Like, you don't know what he's gonna think. And so if he'd made these three years later, they could have ended up, like, totally different. But I'd be curious to know whether, like, the audience for this in Japan, in the 2000s were, you know, like 40 year old guys who saw Zeta when they were 20. Because I think like, that's one of my favorite things about the original production run is that like, it's in real time. Like when, if you watch Zeta Gundam after original, when it came out, you would be seeing them six years later. So you would have grown, you know, by six years. So if you're watching it in the 2000s, you might well be in your 40s. And if you say, hey, Tom, and is doing a newsator, you might be like, oh, cool, like, let's check it out. And I think that low level of like buy in probably makes them easier to swallow. Whereas if you're kind of like, I want to get into Zeta Gundam, I'm gonna watch these for the story. You just be like, what is. What is going on? So yeah, yeah. [01:49:41] Speaker B: I mean, thank God for the Internet being a mistake and being everywhere at the same time. Because at least you can look up Zeta a new translation and get most people going either saying, probably these are dog shit, don't even watch them. Or most people going like, ah, they're fun. But this is not like you should watch Zeta before you watch these. And it is fascinating how like modern day Gundam, it did seem like for the longest time, like, because we've actually talked outside the podcast, but like on our website we watched. Was it Requiem for Vengeance? [01:50:14] Speaker C: We watched that show, the Netflix. [01:50:17] Speaker B: Netflix show that existed and which dares [01:50:22] Speaker C: to ask the question, what if children were in war? [01:50:25] Speaker A: What if Zan were the good guys? [01:50:27] Speaker B: What. What is. [01:50:28] Speaker C: Yeah, that too. [01:50:29] Speaker B: What if Gundams were in the European theater? Makes you think. But it was funny. Like as we recently just went to White Bay, Chicago and it was, it was fascinating the amount of G Cuck stuff because I would have never expected how popular G Cucks was until like having a whole section of just like mouse pads of just all the characters of G Cucks. And then like G Cux winning like, [01:50:58] Speaker C: I think it like, like one best new Anime. [01:51:00] Speaker B: Yeah, best new anime last year. And it's like is winning a bunch of awards. And wild to think that like, you know, because Witch for Mercury felt like they were almost embarrassed and how they were trying to push that out. Even though I liked which Mercury. And this to think like with all that going on and God, Kenny, we haven't even brought up the Netflix Netflix Gundam film that apparently still [01:51:24] Speaker A: Evan's eye roll was exactly how I felt. Just obviously in the audio medium, it doesn't translate, but it was that Evan's [01:51:31] Speaker B: eye rolls translate in the audio medium. I see. [01:51:34] Speaker A: I see it. [01:51:34] Speaker B: I see it. [01:51:35] Speaker C: Evan's just been giddy ever since Sydney Sweeney was cast as Char Asno. [01:51:40] Speaker B: It is funny how. How Jason Clark dropped off. [01:51:44] Speaker C: It's like, what the shooting in his home country and he dropped them. [01:51:49] Speaker B: He would rather not be a part of it. [01:51:51] Speaker C: He's like, no, they're gonna drop a colony on us. I can't do it. [01:51:56] Speaker A: Oh, dear. I will. I will say a props of nothing. It is a very weird thing to be like. Like being an Australian getting into gun and was quite bizarre because you're not used to a lot like, you know, not throwing shade at Americans. But you guys produce a lot of movies. So there's a lot of movies about America, battle Americans set in America. And Australian, like, made movies, like, are obviously often about Australia, but there's not often movies that tangentially feature Australia. And so even like in Independence Day where there's that final shot and there's like randomly one of the motherships floating over Sydney Harbour. Like, as a kid, you're like, oh, oh, like, we're real. We're in a movie. Oh, my God. Yeah, sorry. You gonna say no? [01:52:35] Speaker B: No. [01:52:35] Speaker D: I just enjoyed that. [01:52:37] Speaker C: Well, I'm sure it's similar. Like, we at least I, you know, perk up, sit forward in my seat whenever, like, some Indiana town is named in a. Like I was watching the Boys the Amazon show and Fort Wayne makes a cameo. Fort Wayne, Indiana. It's just like what we. Okay. We exist in Hollywood, I guess so [01:53:00] Speaker B: I think like, Stranger Things is another thing. Hawkins, Indiana is like. That's the only thing people know from us. [01:53:10] Speaker A: It is quite strange seeing, like Sydney being blown up as like a constant frame of reference. And in Gundam NT where they. Which like both Gundam NT and I think not. We're in the pocket. Sorry. I spot us Memory are both set in Australia. Like, they both have bases in Australia. I'm always base figure out whether the characters are Australian because, like, especially Gundam nt, there's like Jonah Bast and like Jonah is saying like when you say it, like with the Australian accent, like, that sounds very Australian, but it's kind of. Yeah, it's one of those things that it just feels kind of weird. But like, I've also never heard of any Japanese people being like, oh, we're in Australia. Like, you know, from Gundam, it's just kind of like, oh, we just dropped it on, like, Australia. And there's a huge bite, like, you know, out of the. Out of the country from where the colony blew it up. But in Gunamn t they mentioned an Australian highway that like I drove on. I, I do drive on and I was kind of, you know, like the LEO pointing me of like, oh, they mentioned the Princess highway. I know where that is. I don't know if anyone else knows where this is versus say like Code Geass. Where in the original TV run, Australia was just not on the map. Like it was New Zealand was there. Australia just literally wasn't there. So it does feel cool to like kind of be involved in the custom universe as like a. This is, you know, a property I really like and like, oh, here Australia is like a part of the law. It's, it's nice. And so I'm very keen for Hathaway too on that process to see what Hathaway's Australia is going to look like. It'll be very interesting. [01:54:41] Speaker B: Watch the movie start and Hathaway goes, we need to drop another colony. If it's any consolation. It is. This is a spoiler for Double Zeta. But by, by the halfway point of Double Zeta, Australia is not the only place on Earth to get a colony. Yes, they do it again in Double Zeta. They push it hard. Oh man. [01:55:04] Speaker A: I think, yeah, it's. [01:55:05] Speaker B: If it ain't broke, drop a colony. [01:55:08] Speaker A: But I mean, like, I do find interesting how Gundam has kind of like gotten bigger in terms of like Evan and I were having a tangential conversation the other day about like Hong Kong films in terms of, you know, like the, the decade ago, you know, when I didn't have these gray hairs when like I was, you know, getting into Hong Kong films and it was like I'd have to, you know, source them from Hong Kong or you know, like the very compressed DVD version. Maybe you could find someone for selling for $40 on eBay. And now there's like three hard boiled you can get in 4K with you know, essays and extras. And it feels the same with Gundam is like back in the day it was like there's the only streaming ones were like Double Zero and Wing and that was kind of it. And now it's like, oh, you can get them all, you know, on Crunchyroll and they've all got like dubs and subs and there's a Gundam base in Chicago. Like it's like, it's so crazy. [01:55:56] Speaker C: Like Gundam has like Call of Duty skins and yeah. [01:56:00] Speaker A: Oh my God. So, so, so on point. But yeah, so I'm, I'm so glad that like more people can experience it now. But. But it's kind of crazy how in the last 10 years, like Bandai finally got their shit together and thought, oh, maybe people will enjoy this property that's really popular here. We should probably make it accessible. So I'm glad we can even have this conversation because we wouldn't have 10 years ago. [01:56:25] Speaker B: Even the fact that Hathaway 2 before even got its American release, got its op and ending songs revealed, and it being fucking SZA being the opening and Guns and Roses, right? Absolutely baffling. I can't wait to see that. But it's still crazy to not even get a release date in North America. But to be like, by the way, though Japan's getting a scissor opening for Hathaway too is crazy. [01:56:56] Speaker A: And like, well, the fact that even the first one was a Netflix, like, it's now trapped on Netflix jail because unless you get the 4k from Japan, it does have English subs, but it's just kind of very weird. Like, you know, but it does feel very par for the course for like Gundam, you know, enjoying it. Like, well, you got to watch this film, but if there's one here and there's another one there and you kind of got to cobble it together. But I'm glad it's much easier now. [01:57:18] Speaker B: Yeah, much, much easier. I mean, they still, I mean, again, tales, oldest time. If you try to buy the Blu Rays for most like UC stuff, they'll go like, ah, we're kind of out of this. But if you want Gundam wings. Oh, oh, they got plenty of Gundam Wing. You want Endless Waltz, you want the whole show? How about Seed? You want Seed? But I mean, yeah, that's, that's the Zeta Gundam compilation film trilogy. It is a, you know, it's a flashy, you know, cut like just like very much a whiplash inducing run through all 50 episodes. Episodes of the iconic series. And it is, I, I just, I think they are, they are fun. They are definitely best seen probably on the biggest screen whenever that could happen. But until then, I'd say if you get a chance to watch that and you haven't seen Zeta, do not watch until you watch. Yeah, but if you have watched Zeta and you're probably like us and it's been a while since you've seen Zeta, there's, there are moments here that will scratch the monkey Gundam brain in like little neuron in there that'll be like, ah, yes, I do remember when that man never betrayed anybody. And I probably, I would probably say, I guess to get the final thoughts from the three of you, I would just say my. My favorite was probably the first film technically, in terms of just, like, the ending, as well as getting some good little Amuro at the end, and also just a good reminder of some of the bigger points early on in the show. What would be your favorite of the three? I guess, if you had to choose [01:58:57] Speaker C: Alex or Evan. [01:58:58] Speaker A: Go ahead, Evan. You go first. [01:58:59] Speaker D: Probably the first one in the world. I mean, the first one is the one that filled me with, that gave me enough feelings of familiarity and the novelty of seeing some sequences given a facelift without being completely baffling. Like, it. It's of like. I think I. We've been talking for two hours. I don't remember who said it earlier. I think it was Logan. But, like, it's. It's the one that feels. Or maybe Andy. It's the one that feels most like what you want a compilation film to feel like. [01:59:31] Speaker C: Sure. [01:59:32] Speaker D: It is the one that I would look forward to seeing in theaters the most. If they brought these to theaters, which I was genuinely hopeful they would continue to do those releases like they were doing a year ago or two years ago. And I'm disappointed they haven't. But anyway, probably the first one. Alex, I mean. [01:59:53] Speaker A: I mean, yeah, I. I like pretty much exactly what you guys have said. Like, it's. It's the one I was watching, and I was like, oh, I'm really like, yeah, I am back watching Zeta. This is great. And even, like, I think they added the one or two scenes they added. Like, there's a little bit of extra stuff between Camille's parents that was actually, like, informative and good, you know, and it has enough of a balance between drama and action. Like, there's enough of a plot. And as you guys kind of said before, like, there's an actual ending. Like, the thematic ending of, like, now Sharon Amara, meaning is like, it gets you hyped to be like, yeah, I do want to watch the next one. And then after that, it kind of is just like, chunk, chunk. So I think, yeah, definitely the first one if. But, you know, like, next time I go back to Japan, I will buy them on Blu Ray there, because I can't. Not so, you know, I think that sums up the relationship is I don't love them, but I would like to watch them again in the future because they hit that lizard brain. So, yeah, [02:00:51] Speaker C: same for me, for all the reasons stated. I mean, it just gets the closest to feeling like, you know, kind of filling you with that serotonin of seeing Something you love, done in a new way and setting up the adventure to come, you know, with that ending. So, yeah, I actually would say that, like, I flat out enjoyed, like, really had a good time with the first one. Would I recommend it to anyone? Not necessarily. I mean, if you love Zeta, then sure, it's another way to watch Zeta. But yeah, absolutely. Skip all of these. If you have not seen Zeta before. And even if you've seen Zeta, totally optional. [02:01:41] Speaker B: You heard it here, folks. Andy, would rather you watch Gundam Wing than say that Gundam. [02:01:47] Speaker C: Now, I didn't say [02:01:50] Speaker B: it's crazy. It says it's right here in the script. Evan, Alex, thank you so much again for being a part of this. I. It's been a thrill to finally have us all sit down and talk about Gundam and the fact that it's not a five hour episode. [02:02:06] Speaker C: Yeah, relatively reasonable compared to my expectations. [02:02:13] Speaker B: But yeah, for our next episode, actually, I hope you really liked hearing Evan on this episode because you're gonna hear him again. Because our next episode, our last episode of April, we're starting off with Zeta, but we're ending with a unlikely horror trail. You see, at the end of April, there is a return of a classic Universal monster movie by name only, but still a franchise, and Lee Cronin's the Mummy. So I thought it might be fun if we do a little mummy talk with a trio of films called the Mummy's Tomb, the Mummy's Ghost, and the Mummy's Curse. I think I actually got those right. [02:02:57] Speaker C: I was like, I really hope you don't throw it to me because I don't remember. [02:03:00] Speaker B: Absolutely not. I would not do that to any of you. [02:03:03] Speaker C: But important, important to note though, that those three Logan curated, because those are the three that Lon Chaney Jr. Famously stars as the titular mummy. [02:03:17] Speaker B: Yes. While Boris Karloff is known as the iconic emotep in the original Mummy film, Lon Chaney Jr. Of the Wolfman fame does come in to finish the franchise. [02:03:29] Speaker C: Finishes the job. All right. [02:03:30] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll be talking about that on the next episode. So again, Evan, Alex, thank you so much for this episode. When we have another Gundam episode, we'll try to find time before a colony drop to get you back on this. Alex. [02:03:45] Speaker C: Thank you. [02:03:48] Speaker B: But as always, I'm Logan, so. [02:03:49] Speaker C: And I'm Andy Carr. [02:03:51] Speaker B: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.