Episode 110: The Toxic Avenger Sequels (with Austin Webster)

[00:00:19] Speaker A: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Sowash. [00:00:23] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:00:24] Speaker A: In Odd Odd Trilogies, we take a trio of films, whether tied by cast and crew, thematic elements, or just numerical order, and we discuss the good, the bad, and the weird surrounding them. And today, it's our first spooky season episode. It's our first October episode. But this is actually. Even though we probably have plenty of other horror options we could probably do, we decided to take a little break from doing horror in the most obvious time. Don't worry, we do have a horror trilogy in mind, but that will be a little bit later in the year. But until then, we decided to instead of focus on horror trilogies, in October, we decided, for the first trilogy, we decided to go with the Monstrous Angle, because last year we did Wolfman and like the odd Wolfman kind of interpretations. And then we decided, you know what? We could do monsters again. But this time, let's tackle a monster that has just come back into theaters after, I don't know, 25 years, maybe 24 years, and is also the first superhero to come out of New Jersey. That's right. We are talking about, not the Toxic Avenger itself, we are talking about the Toxic Avenger sequels. Because in case you don't know, there are four films in this franchise, if you don't count all the shorts that Kaufman has done post all these movies. He actually made a short called Toxie vs. Putin, I think a few years back. Of course he did. It's like two minutes. But in case you don't know, the Toxic avengers sequels are 1989's Toxic Avenger Part 2 and Toxic Avenger Part 3. Colon. The Last Temptation of Toxie and 2000's Citizen Toxi. Colon. The Toxic Avenger 4. In case you don't know, the Toxic Avenger is out of 1984. It is, in my opinion, the pinnacle of B movie schlock for me. Mount Rushmore Head, you know, there's a few others on there. Of course, you got Wiseau up there. You got my personal favorite, Miami Connection, but you gotta have Toxic Avenger up there. Especially because when you talk about Troma, it's hard not to bring up Toxic Avenger. And before we talk more about Toxie himself, we should also keep in mind that we have a guest today. Someone, the last time he was on this podcast, talked about his Lego sets while we were discussing Cats that Love Lasagna, Super Mario, as well as the Lego Movie, of course. So returning to the podcast. Our friend and lover of the Toxic Adventure, Austin Webster. Austin, introduce yourself. [00:03:06] Speaker C: Look, last time, at least it was kind of on topic. I don't know if I can relate whatsoever. Dude. Toxie and his. [00:03:13] Speaker A: What are you talking about? [00:03:14] Speaker B: Well, you're. You're just as. You're just as radioactive. You're just as dewy. [00:03:19] Speaker C: You know what? [00:03:20] Speaker B: You know, and you might be just as stinky. [00:03:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:23] Speaker C: Actually, you know, I think there's more in common with Melvin. Melvin Junko. Ferd. Depending on which canon timeline you decide to go with. [00:03:34] Speaker A: I guess we're doing Junko because Junko is the sequels. Ferd is the original film. [00:03:39] Speaker B: Well, the toxiverse is vast. Yes. [00:03:44] Speaker C: Because we go into Bizarro. Toxic. Toxic. [00:03:47] Speaker A: Yes, we do. [00:03:48] Speaker C: Oh, man. This was. This is a trip. What a What a return trilogy. [00:03:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Just to clarify, too, out of the three of us, I had seen one and two years ago. [00:04:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:01] Speaker A: And that's it. And neither of you had seen any of them? [00:04:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:04] Speaker C: Awesome. [00:04:05] Speaker B: Both virgins. [00:04:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Which I thought would be the most fun because a little bit of inside baseball when it came to this episode there. The other idea I had for something I thought we could have gotten a solid episode with Austin out of at least was, I think I know what you did. I think you know what I did last summer. [00:04:24] Speaker C: This is so much more fun. [00:04:27] Speaker A: I think I put both those options. I was like, I think we could probably get enough goofy out of a mid trilogy if we did all the, I think you know what you did last summer films, at least the. The theatrical ones, because those have four. But the fourth, the one that's straight to dvd, is dog. I don't think anyone I know who's seen it likes that one. [00:04:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:04:48] Speaker A: And then Andy, I think said in chat, I think it would be a lot more fun with Toxic Adventure, or at least more interesting to talk about. And I think it's. Honestly. Yes, but to what end is what we're about to talk about today. [00:05:02] Speaker B: At what cost? [00:05:03] Speaker A: At what cost? [00:05:04] Speaker C: At what cost indeed. [00:05:06] Speaker A: Because before we watched all the sequels, of course, to get them prepped for the sequel, since they'd never seen the original. We watched the original together. Andy watched it right before, like a few days before, I think, because you just had the urge to get into Toxie, and then you came over and then Austin and I watched it, and then our friend of the pod in front of friend in real life, Adam joined up, watched all four of these movies, even though he's not on this episode. Godspeed. Damn. The Experience on that end was fascinating. But we watched the original film. We had a good glimpse as to why this is Troma's. I can't. It's not their biggest money maker. I don't know what money maker is to troma. Maybe, like $5. Like, I don't like. It definitely is their biggest property. Like, out of everything. [00:05:59] Speaker B: In terms of, like, recognition. [00:06:01] Speaker A: Yes. [00:06:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Because cultural influence. [00:06:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Because outside of this, they have Class of Nukem High as a series. They have a bunch of other movies that they made in the. Like, they have Troma's War Poultry Geist, which they made in the 2000s. That I know kind of had a bit of a cult classic kind of energy to it. And then there's another film based off of a character who's actually a part of the fourth film, which we will get to when we get to that point. Austin's giving me a little inquisitive look. Oh, you'll know once we get to him. [00:06:29] Speaker C: Just like who? [00:06:32] Speaker A: It's Ron Jeremy. Yeah. He's a Troma character created by Troma. Ron Jeremy. NYPD is what his name is. [00:06:43] Speaker C: And, yeah, Troma's what obviously put Ron Jeremy in the fame. Nothing else whatsoever. [00:06:48] Speaker A: Nothing else. Nothing else. Nothing else. Yeah. [00:06:49] Speaker C: He's just known as the trauma guy. [00:06:51] Speaker A: But we also should bring up now, because we will discuss it later. Troma is now also kind of known a little bit, if you do enough digging, the reason why, you know, James Gunn, at a certain point, got a start, which we did talk about on our Rise of Gun series ways back. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:06] Speaker A: Because this is technically not the first trauma film we've talked about. On the pod, we talked about Tromio and Juliet, which was a nightmare for Andy. Yeah, I remember that being. Trying to just talk about anything about that film. And you were just having a. Yeah. [00:07:23] Speaker B: One of tonight's films skirts that territory. [00:07:26] Speaker A: And I know which one it is, exactly what it is. And I can't wait for us to get to that one. But, yeah, it also, it's. It is fascinating with Troma in general, because it's. They are B movie filmmaking. I think, to a lot of people, when you think, especially if so bad, it's good. Especially when it comes to just getting things done out in a budget and also being seen. And also Lloyd Kaufman as a director and a writer and as a personality. Because the man has done so many things in terms of just, like, doing intros and outros for his movies. He pops up in his own films constantly. He is just. He has been a part of Troma for I think 50 years. I think he's. He's been around, I think since he was in his 20s. He's also married to Pat Swinney. Kaufman, who I brought up when we watched the sequels, is. I got to make sure I get her entire entire title. The Executive Director of the New York Motion Picture and Television Development. New York State Governor's Office for Motion Picture and Television. [00:08:38] Speaker B: Yeah. And the Deputy Commissioner of Empire State Development. [00:08:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And they've been together since 74. [00:08:47] Speaker C: Wow. [00:08:48] Speaker A: And apparently the reason why they're. The reason why there are three sequels is because of her decision or her idea to split two and three in two separate films. [00:08:59] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:00] Speaker A: At least one of the ideas for that. [00:09:01] Speaker B: At the expense of a four hour. [00:09:06] Speaker C: Hearing that too. And watching part three is just. It's. It makes more sense. [00:09:12] Speaker A: Yes. [00:09:13] Speaker C: I guess. But also. Holy shit. [00:09:17] Speaker A: Yeah. Because there's. There's a solid gap release time between Avenger and two. Half a century gap or half a decade. Half a decade gap. Going from the beginning of the 80s to literally 89. And in 89 itself. Because we'll kind of go back and forth with two and three. Because not only are they basically two different films that come out of just a shit ton of stuff they shot for one particular sequel that never got to get made. They also, I believe part two came out in February of 89 and part three came out of November. 89. Like Thanksgiving weekend I think is kind of what that era is like. So in the span of the year you get. You get plenty of toxy if you're. If you're a fan. Which is a blessing and a curse. [00:10:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:06] Speaker A: In this regard. Because going into two, I think it has. I've seen one because I think one of the reasons why I also pitched this to Andy forever ago is because one, I'm always morbidly curious, especially when it comes to horror or monsters or just like even with Schlock. Because you don't see a lot of Schlock that gets franchise. Like I think the closest thing you get to that in Schlock is probably Neil Breen. Which I think he only just made a sequel or a pseudo sequel to his stuff. [00:10:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:40] Speaker A: Like a few years ago. [00:10:42] Speaker C: But even that's all self funded and not like it's a weird cult following behind it. [00:10:48] Speaker A: Like there's definitely. [00:10:49] Speaker B: I mean, I guess you, you could point to stuff like Sharknado. [00:10:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:53] Speaker B: But like, you know, even that is kind of, I don't know, some that's somehow A more hollow and deeper than these. [00:11:01] Speaker C: The Asylum is a different world. [00:11:03] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:11:04] Speaker C: Because it's like their whole thing is we're just gonna make the quickest buck we can. And there's like. [00:11:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:10] Speaker C: An earnestness to the schlock behind Troma and Toxic Avenger that is like. It's. I don't know. I respect it in a weird way. [00:11:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:21] Speaker A: Oh, I do, too. Like, I think it's. [00:11:24] Speaker B: It is nothing to respect about the Asylum. [00:11:27] Speaker A: No. What are you talking about? It's is a brand to appreciate. Every time you see that logo, you know you're getting something. [00:11:35] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. [00:11:36] Speaker A: You're getting something. [00:11:37] Speaker B: Shout out. Shout out Operation Dunkirk, shot in Indiana. [00:11:42] Speaker C: Shout out Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse, Thor, God of Thunder, and Attack on Titan, the three movies that I worked on for the Asylum. [00:11:49] Speaker A: Hey, that's right. You did work for Asylum. [00:11:51] Speaker C: Yeah. So, you know, watch. Watch what you say here, Andy. Don't talk about my former employer. [00:11:59] Speaker A: You didn't see this, but there's a. There's a man with a gun to Austin's head, just right off camera, and it's Toxic. He's back. [00:12:06] Speaker C: Yeah. His Tromatons are buzzing. [00:12:12] Speaker A: Oh, my God. But, I mean, at the end of the original Toxic Avenger, it pretty much is clean cut. There wasn't any idea for another one. Maybe there is a joke that they could have done more, but it feels like the first film is pretty solid standalone. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's. It's true to the spirit of, like, the comic books it's ripping off in the sense of. It's like. And this is just the beginning of the Toxic Avengers, you know, and it's kind of like, oh, and he'll be back if you ever need him. Or if you're doing crime, you're ever. [00:12:46] Speaker A: In New Jersey and you see a criminal named Bozo, just. [00:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's certainly not, like, set up as, like, a. And we're gonna do a thousand more of these. [00:12:56] Speaker A: Yeah. No, because I could imagine. Because it seems like, at least from what I've seen from Kaufman, the idea for the second one, which basically just be they. They kind of sell it as Toxie Takes Japan. [00:13:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is a wild swing for your first. [00:13:14] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:13:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:15] Speaker B: Just like, we're just gonna go. [00:13:18] Speaker A: But I think the little I saw is, like, inspiration kind of came when he was pitching the film or, like, doing promotional stuff for the film in Japan. And I believe In Toxic Avenger 2, there is a shot where a man gets his nose burnt into the shape of a Little fish treat name escapes me. But apparently he saw like one of the food, like street vendors who actually made those and had that idea when he saw one of those brands. Kind of the start of like, how much fun would it be to just be here, shoot in Japan and have art are like iconic hero. Even if they talked about him like that at that point in 89 or 88, it just like, you know, take a trip, go to the East. [00:14:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:04] Speaker A: And because I remember when I saw the original film when I was younger, because, like the original film, I don't know if I could say scarred me, probably did a little bit. But I think it is like the original film, especially if you're at a certain age, like middle school, like, I think is what I kind of saw this. It's the film that really shows you that you can do a lot with film that you never thought you could get. Like, you never think you can get away with growing up. When you watch enough of a certain movie or when you watch a lot of kids movies and people talk about how adult films are, you don't expect to see a child get run over and then get his head explode. Like, you know, like, you don't think that's gonna happen. But when you see that on cable television late at night, it is. It really changes your perspective of what you can get away with. [00:14:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:57] Speaker A: In an artistic way. And. And that's just the beginning. Like, the funniest part about this movie is that the first 10 to 15 minutes of the original film is like, it has nothing to. It really has jack shit to do with the origin of Melvin. [00:15:12] Speaker B: Yeah. It's really just like showcasing how awful the people of this world are or of this town. Yeah. [00:15:18] Speaker A: Because, you know, Melvin, the janitor of the Troma Health Club, gets put into a tutu for a prank, jumps out of a window out of embarrassment and falls into toxic waste and becomes canonically a giant six, six plus foot tall man with a giant. Toxic is what it kind of implies. [00:15:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:37] Speaker A: And he has his mop to clean up crime in New Jersey and Tromaville. [00:15:42] Speaker B: Tromaville. [00:15:43] Speaker A: Tromaville. And it's. It's really simple in the original film in terms of the premise. And then, like, it really just feels like it's doing vignettes from that point forward up until it's like, oh, we got to have a third act. Here it is like with Toxis at Public Enemy Number one. [00:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Versus the National Guard at least has. [00:16:04] Speaker C: Like, consistency of like. [00:16:06] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:06] Speaker C: Here's the mayor of the town who may be the best mayor you've ever seen in a movie ever. [00:16:11] Speaker A: We never get that. [00:16:12] Speaker C: Just, like, sucks. But at least he pops up every now and then being like, hey, why? See, why is the Toxic Avenger taking out all our best guys? Like, right, we need to get him. So at least it's working towards some culmination of, like, Toxie versus the mayor. [00:16:26] Speaker A: And it works really well, even though they never talk until the very end. [00:16:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:32] Speaker C: And then there's the other three. [00:16:34] Speaker B: Yeah. The. The sequels all, I think, make the mistake of, like, going way too convoluted in compared comparison to the first film's simplicity and just kind of. I don't know. It's weird. The first film is so clearly like an homage to comic books of the day. And like, you know, the kind of simple plots and origin stories from those 2, 3 and 4 are just like, fucking around. [00:17:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:04] Speaker B: You know, you would think, like, okay, if this first movie is like, clearly made with love for comic books, maybe 2, 3 and 4 riff on different types of superhero stories, which the fourth one kind of does. But 2 and 3 are just kind of like, what. What new position can we put Toxie in? And what horrible things can we have? [00:17:25] Speaker A: I'm in the East. Let him go to. Let them go to bath houses. That's funny. [00:17:30] Speaker C: And it would be funny if. And then the next thing happens. [00:17:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, it's. I think when we were watching two together and it's the first time I had seen it in. Yeah, probably over a decade. And just being like. I do not remember two being this slow. I would argue, I think two might be the slowest of the three. [00:17:55] Speaker C: I think part three is. [00:17:57] Speaker A: The thing about part three is that, like, I think part three, at least it was the least slow to me because, like, I had no expectations for part three in terms of, like, what we were getting to. Maybe the devil, but at the same time, which. Yeah, the devil is in Part 3, aka Last Temptation of Toxie, he's the main villain. But in two, I think it felt so much slower because we knew going into it, because we watched a trailer that he was going to be in Japan or we had read the plot synopsis. And so we went into that being like, okay, so like, what's the. What is the tie into Japan? And it takes in an hour and 42 minute film, 45 minutes to get him to Japan. [00:18:40] Speaker B: Well, and the first 20 minutes of that is a single fight scene with. [00:18:45] Speaker C: After a bunch of blind children blew up by Apocalypse Inc. Yeah. [00:18:51] Speaker A: Because another Thing too with the original film is that all the threats to Toxie are dead by the end of one, so they have to create a new overarching villain for two and three. And so they decide to create just an evil corp called Apocalypse Inc. I think he's run by. The actor's name is Rick Collins, who I believe is one of the only actors to be in all four of these movies in different roles. Yeah, he's even in four. Like, I remember seeing him in four. He's like one of the random cops. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, hey, it's him. Look at him. Who is he? 1. [00:19:25] Speaker C: I think that's actually the only one I don't remember. [00:19:27] Speaker A: I think he's a cop again in one. Like, I think he's just a random bystander kind of like has like one or two lines. Like. But he basically is like, they want to take Tromaville back. And so they decide initially their first plan is to blow up a blind assistant home or trauma for the blind. Tromaville's home of the blind. [00:19:50] Speaker C: Well, because they wanted to kill Toxie there. [00:19:53] Speaker A: Yes, because Toxie was working there because one, he was having a quarter life crisis and also working with his blind girlfriend, who is a constant. Constant. But like, she is a character all four of these movies. In the original film, her name is Sarah or Julie. Is it Julie? I think it's. I thought it was Julie or Sarah. [00:20:14] Speaker B: In the original because they change Sarah. [00:20:15] Speaker A: Yeah, it's Sarah. And then they changed it to Claire in two and three. And my God, if there's anything from these sequels that really only got worse as each new installment went, it is the. The blind girlfriend. Like at that point, I can't even. Even if I say your first name, she's not enough of a character to even feel like this. There's no real I remember of her. [00:20:43] Speaker C: Of any change is that in part three, he calls her my non seeing girlfriend instead of blind. And that was probably the only laugh I had in part three. Just because I was like, that is so stupid and great. But she girl does nothing. [00:21:02] Speaker A: Because that woman's like an artist. Like, she's a musical. She's like a singer. I believe she produced a lot of music and was like she had a career. Like, it was like, yeah, she like was. This was like very early on, before she was doing anything that she would be known for later. I think in the music industry, it is wild to watch these two movies and just be like. Because Sarah in the original film, again, is not much to talk about either. But at least there's an earnestness, there's a sweetness. And she has a character in comparison to like, I mean, it's, it's still. Her character is mainly she's blind. Like, you go to her house and all the paintings are sideways and. Yeah. I mean, different canes on a wall. [00:21:46] Speaker B: And we're, we're operating from the baseline set by the original movie, which is that like every character is paper thin. [00:21:52] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:21:54] Speaker B: 2, 3, and 4. All somehow reduce any characters even further. Further. And she is unfortunately the worst casualty because I think, like in the first film there is like, there is an endearing quality to their relationship. And although she's not a terribly complex character, it's still kind of fun to be like, oh, horrible ugly monster gets to be with a beautiful, loving woman because she's blind and can't see. How horrifying. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah. They go the Ben Grimm route. [00:22:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's basically it. [00:22:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:28] Speaker B: And 2, 3, and 4, notably starting with 2, pivot into this territory of, well, we're just gonna make the blind girlfriend be an absolute sex object, a brainless sex object to play with and. [00:22:45] Speaker A: Wear not normal clothes. [00:22:47] Speaker B: It's like she's gonna look like a dress up doll, like a kid is playing around with at all times. [00:22:54] Speaker A: She. Again, I think all the actors, I think both actresses in the sequels give it their all with whatever the fuck they're given, which I feel like is fuck all. But it still is the fact that every time they both show up, it is like, oh my God, I don't understand why you can't give them anything. And like, if she's a more pivotal part in 3. Because in 3, the first part of that movie is Toxie becomes a part of a corporation to get her eyesight back. [00:23:27] Speaker B: Toxie sells out. [00:23:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Toxie becomes corporate and so that he. [00:23:31] Speaker C: Can pay for his non seeing girlfriend, who now we learned used to be a dental hygienist. [00:23:39] Speaker A: Yeah. And is living on welfare. [00:23:43] Speaker C: And we get the amazing strew of lines of Toxie being like, I have the welfare check. And she goes, this is something else for you. It smells important. And she's trying to like use telekinesis to read it. And then he's like, it goes on for far too long before he's like, no, let me just read it. Blah, blah. But he does it just so he can. So she can see again. [00:24:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:05] Speaker C: So he sells out. And that throughout the rest of the movie. Like, that's what the last temptation of Toxie was Because it's still another hour before we find out that it was the Devil. [00:24:16] Speaker A: Yes. [00:24:17] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:17] Speaker A: It is again the. The original part two or the. Just the original initial sequel when Kaufman cut it or Kaufman filmed a lot of it when they got to it, both him and Hertz. Michael Hertz is his co director on all these, also co producer, I think even helped write I think a little bit of these. [00:24:35] Speaker C: But. [00:24:37] Speaker A: They had like, I think four hours of footage. [00:24:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:41] Speaker A: Or like at least when they cut it together, it was a four hour film and he was having like. Kaufman had a crisis. It was like, there's no way in hell I'm gonna get a four hour film to get this out in theaters. And I believe one of the. His wife was one of the people that was like, just make it two movies. And it is in a sense watching these two movies, it is. At a certain point it gets old really quick. But if you have this fascination of what exactly was the initial idea of like the singular part of this film? Because it's. It's interesting now talking about the sequels in this year because while we were watching them, we found out there is currently, when we were filming this or recording this, there is a new cut of two and three put together that is takes the three and a half hour film, like the footage and turns it into just over two hours that they're like showing in random theaters across the country as well as I think Italy is also one of the places they're screening the film. And apparently, I mean, I read like a bloody disgusting article that saw the film and basically said, like, it cuts the majority of three. [00:25:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:53] Speaker A: You know the fun stuff at two. Because yeah, when you watch two, when they get to Japan, it's like, okay, this, this is kind of what I was expecting this whole time. I didn't. 45 fucking minutes. @ least we're here. And then when you get to part three, we're just gonna have to. It's interchangeable at this point. They just. [00:26:11] Speaker B: Yeah, we're together. [00:26:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:14] Speaker B: We can talk about them as one film. Because they were meant to be one. [00:26:17] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. But part three at a certain point is like the, the angle for the first hour of it being Toxico's corporate is so loose. [00:26:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:28] Speaker A: You know, he's gonna get out of it. But how? And then like the back half of the film is of course the video game level challenge with the Devil. Cuz Toxie now plays video games. [00:26:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:41] Speaker C: It's so weird because it feels like act one of part three. [00:26:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:46] Speaker C: Does feel Like a separate act. One of like this is kind of. This. You could see it says this is the inciting moment is that he wants. [00:26:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:55] Speaker C: To cure his girlfriend's non seeingness. [00:26:58] Speaker B: And. [00:27:01] Speaker A: It. It. [00:27:02] Speaker C: That's what felt the weirdest, I think about three to me, is that like this imagining it all going together. Because part two is all about. Part two is initially Apocalypse Therapy. And he's like, yeah, I need to go find my dad Junko, because that's my name now. That's my last name is. We're not going to talk about Ferd. It's actually junk. No, it's. It's always been Junko. This word, it fucks me up. It's always been Junko. [00:27:26] Speaker B: Yep. [00:27:28] Speaker C: And that's Japanese name, obviously. So I must go find my dad. Big Mac. So let me just. Carousel to Japan from New Jersey. [00:27:43] Speaker B: Iconic shot. [00:27:44] Speaker A: Incredible. So good. [00:27:47] Speaker C: And then he's just like goofing in Japan. [00:27:50] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. He has a hard time finding his father. And then when he. [00:27:53] Speaker C: And that also feels like a kind of complete arc, but you just keep cutting back to it. But it also feels like this weird non sequitur. Like it's. It's just so. There's so much when you mash the two of those together where I. [00:28:09] Speaker B: It's. [00:28:10] Speaker C: I'd be curious to. Honestly to watch the full cut of like the. The two of them together to see what was deemed what the original intention was for the flow of everything. [00:28:20] Speaker B: Because it's just. Yeah. [00:28:23] Speaker C: It bounces around, like, even down to Rick Collins, like head of Apocalypse Corp. Whatever the devil revealed in part three, he has the same shot of him just looking over the balcony for all of part two until he's kicked to the curb. And then in part three, he's back in power. [00:28:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:46] Speaker C: It's just all over the place. [00:28:49] Speaker A: And then in part three, the scene they use to establish that, like, what everyone's doing, it's the same shot from two. It's literally the same. Like an introduction. It's funny too, because the part two we should also talk about is very quickly is the first film of a young Michael J. White. Or Jai White. [00:29:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:07] Speaker A: Who is a stuntman, an actor who's been in so many things and he is such. It is wild to see him in this movie. And it's funny how in part three, the one thing I remembered is when they show the. The courtroom, like the. The boardroom scene, they like to. They cut his scene out. For some reason, he's still in three, but for some Reason he's one of the heads in part two. And then in part three, they just cut it out entirely. [00:29:31] Speaker B: Yeah, it's practically a non speaking role. [00:29:34] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's. I don't know, it's. It's one of those funny things where it's like, I. The most fun when I was watching part three was trying to guess where the. This cut would have been. Maybe this is what he's supposed to be in Japan. Maybe this is like. Yeah, it. Because clearly Japan is the most solid idea of like, why this exists. Because, like, I mean, it is very much like they're not only. They shoot it in Japan. My God. The one thing we were all worried about going into two was we thought it was going to be super racist. We thought we were gonna get stereotypes galore. We thought it was going to be. [00:30:15] Speaker B: Well, and make no mistake, dear listeners, it's still racist, but it still got stereotypes. Not as bad as we expected. [00:30:23] Speaker A: No. [00:30:24] Speaker B: And it's. It's more. More so. Just lazy depictions of a foreign country rather than like overt, you know, xenophobia or anything. [00:30:33] Speaker A: Yeah, because it's crazy, because this is trauma, I think, is shown through. It's their career. Like they go for the lowest common denominator of a hit, whether it's a gag, whether it's a gore moment in any of their films. But weirdly enough, sometimes they're strangely progressive or a lot more nuanced with certain aspects. And there's a seed in part two where Toxie is just talking to street vendors. He's just walking around and he's not. He's not being mean to anybody. He's just like, what is that? What is. What is this? Do you know who my father is? Big Mac Junko? Because, like. Yeah, because the whole thing is that he finds. I think you don't see it happens off camera, but like a restaurant, like a waiter or someone writes down his dad's name, Big Mac Junko, in Japanese, he just walks around with a napkin and asks. And it's like just. It has a little bit more like a. Clearly, Kaufman and company really enjoyed being in Japan and really loved using that background versus like the. The nastiness and the toxicity, like literally toxic kind of waste that is used for a lot of the backdrops for Toxie in Tromaville. It kind of mixed that up a little bit. But yeah, it does, it does. It still uses stereotypes. It still has moments where it's like, well, I don't think you need to be doing that, but. But okay. Or, you know, having that, like, Roger Corman esque, like, well, we got to have. We make sure we have at least two sets of breasts, naked breasts in this scene, and then we have gore. Or like, this is this weird formula of, like, this is how you keep people engaged. [00:32:14] Speaker C: I think I was about to say it's like, a thing about the nudity, too. Especially in, like, specifically parts two and three that I was kind of, I guess, impressed with was the fact that, like, it's not really a highlight because when the first one, it feels like, yeah, they're trying to make, like, the sexy schlock, like, gore all this. Then parts two and three, it really feels like it's just part of the natural environment. It's almost like a European, like, or Japanese, like, mindset of just, like. It's just there. Like, this is just a part of the world. And because, you know, Lloyd Kaufman and all the sex comedies and everything, it's like. It's almost like it's just ingrained in part of filmmaking for him that, like, you just show boobs or whatever. Especially in the. [00:32:57] Speaker A: The. The bath house. [00:32:59] Speaker C: Yeah, the bath house. In the onsen, when he just makes shabu shabu ramen out of one of. [00:33:06] Speaker A: The villains, and there's just a bunch of naked people hanging around. [00:33:09] Speaker C: And then it's the total opposite in part four. Part four is like, we're just gonna crank the sex back up and just have it be as gratuitous and horny. [00:33:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:20] Speaker C: And that's where 2 and 3 was so fascinating to me. I'm like, this is just a part of Troma's world. And I actually. I kind of like it. It's just. They don't make a big deal out of it, so you shouldn't either. [00:33:32] Speaker A: Well, to be fair to just to give part two the grievances it deserves, the nudity is egregious when it comes to Claire. Like, both two and three, the sex scene, which they reuse in three. Why wouldn't they? That is basically like, before you leave, let's have sex. Sex. And it's this egregious, like, her blowing him under. Under a blanket, coming up with her eyes crossed and, like, he's, like, with her pants on. It's so clearly. Yes, it's clearly that has that energy of, like, teenage boys will probably think this is hot if they're, like, watching this out of nowhere. But, like, anyone else is gonna be like, this is so good. Goofy. This is stupid. And it. Yeah, there's. There's there's just, There is, the thing is, unfortunately with these sequels is there really isn't a lot of sauce here compared to the original film in terms of like the, the energy, the, the chaotic, gruesome, tongue in cheek energy in that original film is in all three of these films at different ways, but not a lot. And I would argue the one that has it the most also is the one that is trying to get the most gross out shock and all. It is really just constantly pushing the envelope in a way that either you're down for how nasty it's going to get or you absolutely despise it as soon as it starts. Which we will get to later. And with part two, I would argue part two is, of these three sequels is the nicest. Maybe the tamest of three. [00:35:10] Speaker B: Probably the tamest, yeah. It's also, I think the most, well, I don't know, aside from the boring swaths like the first 20 minutes of the film and things like that, it is also, I think at its best moments closest to recapturing what worked about the first film. [00:35:30] Speaker A: Yes. [00:35:31] Speaker B: Like the gags that work feel very much in the same spirit of the first film. And Toxie, even though he, I think two is where he changes voice actors, right? [00:35:42] Speaker A: Oh, we gotta talk about the voice. [00:35:44] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and even though that happens, Toxie still feels more like himself in two and then kind of three he just becomes generic protagonist and four is a whole other matter. [00:35:58] Speaker A: But four is, yeah, four is. [00:36:03] Speaker B: I. [00:36:04] Speaker C: Think two is the most earnest fun of the sequels. [00:36:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:09] Speaker C: You know, it is weird way like. [00:36:11] Speaker A: We, you go ahead. [00:36:13] Speaker C: I, I, I, I just like it has, I know we talked about, after we watch it, it's like it's just 10 minutes of boredom. Like what the. And then it does like one Looney Tunes ass thing where. Okay, well we're so back. That was, that was great. [00:36:26] Speaker A: Oh yeah. Like I, I still think about after watching all the sequels. The horse carriage. [00:36:33] Speaker B: Yes, I was about to say that. [00:36:35] Speaker A: Because it's like it is Pocke Avenger Part 2 In terms of the entertaining aspects is that it will catch you off guard when it's at its funniest because you have like Andy and Austin have said there are these lulz that are just low, they just keep going. Maybe it's just, oh, we have five minutes of Toxi walking through Japan. We have five, five minutes of Apocalypse Inc. Turning Tromaville into a nasty cesspool and pushing people away or doing this and that. And then you'll get a scene like two Random people who are trying to fight against Apocalypse Inc. And Apocalypse Inc. Runs them down while they're sitting in a horse carriage. [00:37:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:16] Speaker A: And they run over the horse on top of the carriage. And I gotta say, props to. Props to the team at Troma for making the most realistic horse dummy I think I've ever seen. Because that was when that happened. It almost felt like we all got just shocked back into existence. We all just like hooting and hollering. We had to watch it again to show Adam because I think he was like. [00:37:41] Speaker B: He went to the bathroom. [00:37:42] Speaker A: Yeah. Like nothing's gonna happen here. And then miss one of the best moments of that movie. It's like, that's just a movie. Like Part two is constantly having these little moments that are like, that's funny. That's genuinely really well done. And then you get to part three, and part three is like. I mean, that was kind of funny. That was okay. Like, that was like the opening in the video store. I mean is. It's got some tongue in cheeky stuff. And of course there's. They're sucking themselves off in terms of talking about trauma movies. Every. Like nearly every poster on the wall is a trauma film. Paramount. [00:38:21] Speaker C: That's. That's Universal. And we're the Warner Brothers. [00:38:26] Speaker B: Yeah. This weird soapbox about movie studios in there. [00:38:31] Speaker A: And then Toxie sneaks in and pretends that he's like the cardboard cut out of the original film. And then he just like murders every. He turns one guy into a videotape and then erases his face. [00:38:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:38:45] Speaker A: And then. Oh my God. Gosh. It. 2 and 3 are not. Like. I definitely dislike 3 the most of these two, but like, it's not the worst thing in the world. It just is really boring. It's boring. It's. It's just. It really. When. Cuz to me, I think with three, since I had like. I didn't have Japan to look forward to, I just kind of was like, I'm just gonna see how long I get bored. And then I'll keep in mind where that is. And then like, honestly, when I got to the devil stuff, I was like, we actually got here a little faster than I thought we would. Then I looked at the time and I was like, oh, we have like 30 minutes left. Was not expecting that. Compared to like two where we were like. I don't think all of you were looking at me. I mean, Andy constantly gave me side eye when we were watching Part two, whether he meant to or not. At different times. But there were times where I think there was this energy of, like, it got to, like, unspoken energy and then just became every one of us going, where's Japan? I want to go to Japan. Like, it's. And the way that he gets to Japan is so lazy because it introduces early on in the film his Freudian therapist. [00:39:52] Speaker B: Right. [00:39:53] Speaker A: Who only shows up in one scene at the beginning and then 40 minutes later shows up again and then goes. You have to go back to the source of your. Like. Because Toxi's having a quarter life crisis in 2 and 3. And they're like, if you find your father, that'll be it. And then that, of course, is why he goes to Japan. And then leads to. I think, genuinely one of the funnier bits in the second film is just the fact that, like, he thought he was Japanese because his last name seemed to be Japanese. And then he finds out his dad is just a white guy named Junko. Like, it really doesn't. [00:40:27] Speaker B: The, like, yakuza boss that he thinks is his dad is actually named Bunko, not Junko. [00:40:33] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:40:34] Speaker B: So that's where the confusion was. [00:40:36] Speaker A: And then Bunko is a part of the Apocalypse Inc. So that's the whole. [00:40:39] Speaker B: Because you gotta tie it back. Which if I. If I didn't know any better, because I don't think this is the case, but it almost feels like the Bunko yakuza boss guy being a tied into Apocalypse Inc. Was like something they added in to make it 3. Have a stronger connection. Yeah. Because, I mean, that's the weird thing about 3 is it's hard to imagine if these were one movie, most of 3, happening after Japan. [00:41:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:41:12] Speaker B: In one movie. Just because that'd be. It'd be so dramatically anticlimactic. [00:41:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And the end of two is outside of the church, which is. [00:41:19] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Yeah. [00:41:21] Speaker A: And so, like, it almost seems like the end of Part three. Well, the end of this long movie would have been, they kill the devil. And then Tox, his dad, shows up and it's like, now that we've killed the devil, we now find out that my dad is. This is who my dad is. He looks like Lloyd Kaufman. [00:41:37] Speaker B: Right. [00:41:37] Speaker C: And it's an easy correction to make because both of these movies use so much goddamn narration. [00:41:45] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:41:46] Speaker C: Holy shit. [00:41:48] Speaker A: Stock footage. Reuse footage from one. Yeah, definitely trying to make you remind you that you're watching a Toxic Avenger film by showing you shots from the original Toxic Avenger. [00:41:59] Speaker C: The shot we're using the trailer in Part two to be like, this is how Melvin became the event. Toxic Avengers. [00:42:08] Speaker A: 4 does as well. 4 does as well. [00:42:10] Speaker C: 4 reuses the origin at the end of it. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. Because they just have all that footage of the original film of him running around where you can't see his face. And they just constantly use that to be, like, the in between stuff. [00:42:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:26] Speaker A: And another thing that I think is. Really brings this film, these two films down at times is the fact that Toxi's voice in the original film was hilariously dissonant from his body in the best way, which is like he basically had someone trying to do like a Cary Grant or like a very suave accent out of a body that. Yeah, he's muscular and big, but there's no way this voice comes out of this. [00:42:56] Speaker C: It's even funnier because you have Melvin who's like. [00:43:02] Speaker A: Oh, we. I need to bring this up. [00:43:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:05] Speaker A: Because I gotta say, the worst part of three, in my opinion. [00:43:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:08] Speaker A: Is the final level, which is when they turn Toxi back into Melvin in the tutu. And apparently what happened was. I believe it was scheduling conflicts. [00:43:20] Speaker B: Oh. [00:43:20] Speaker A: With the original Melvin, which is why they couldn't. They couldn't find a way to get that to work. Actually. No, I believe it was. It was financial. I think he wanted more money than they were willing to give him. [00:43:31] Speaker B: Cohen was the original. [00:43:34] Speaker C: Original. Melvin was Mark Togel, I thought. And Mitch Cohen was the original body for. [00:43:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:41] Speaker B: Oh, that's right. [00:43:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:42] Speaker B: Yeah. Mark Torgal. [00:43:44] Speaker A: But I gotta tell you that the they get for part three to play Melvin was absolutely the worst decision. Part three, they were. [00:43:54] Speaker B: Poor kid. Poor guy. [00:43:55] Speaker A: Yeah, I know. I bet he's a normal guy. [00:43:58] Speaker B: He's floundering in that scene. [00:44:01] Speaker A: He's just. He's as dumb as Claire. Like, it's clearly like this. Sequels make everyone who's ever in who was in the first film that comes back usually recasted. Except for Cigar Face. Cigar Face is the only person. Even though the fourth film, I guess, is not Cigar Face. I just kind of. It's got to be Cigar Face in a way. [00:44:20] Speaker B: Yeah. They don't. [00:44:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:44:22] Speaker A: But everyone else is, like, definitely dumber and sillier than they are in the first film. Which says a lot because the first one was super silly. [00:44:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:44:30] Speaker A: So that just says a lot. It's like his mom is the same way. His mom dresses like. Like Fran. Fran from Austin Powers Gold. Member when she dresses up in, like, her prison outfit, like this huge, gaudy outfit and huge hair and nothing like the original mom in the first film. [00:44:51] Speaker B: The original mom's like a normal person. [00:44:53] Speaker A: Yeah. She's there for like three minutes. I think. [00:44:58] Speaker C: I remember us saying, like, after part one, we're like, you know what? I. Or at least I was like, I actually really dig that the entire movies acted like everyone's in a porno and that's kind of the world of it. And I hope they keep that. And then I watched the next three movies. I was like, I. I got exactly what I asked for. But I am not happy about this because they amped up the porniness of everything. [00:45:21] Speaker A: They amped up the porniness, but they also, like, toned down the gruesomeness a bit. [00:45:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:27] Speaker A: Like, in terms, compared to, like, the first film. It's almost like the first. First film. It's constantly toeing the line between every single criminal you're about to run into, is excessively violent, is going to kill at least one or two people and maybe even assault somebody if given enough time on screen. Yeah. And so that just means you have these three horrible things about each one of these henchmen. Of course, when Toxie shows up, you're going to be like, I don't care what the fuck this guy does. They've earned it. [00:45:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:45:54] Speaker A: And then you get to two and like, Andy brought up, the first 20 minutes are just like, here are all these goofy clown characters. [00:46:02] Speaker B: Here is. We're gonna do. We're gonna give Toxi a rogues gallery all in one go. Like. [00:46:08] Speaker A: And then I believe one of them, I think he punches his head so fast it's like spins in the, like. [00:46:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:14] Speaker A: Which I believe is the body of Toxian 2 and 3. I believe he wanted to just have his face in one scene. [00:46:22] Speaker C: He wanted to prove to his family that he was actually in it. So he offered to do. [00:46:28] Speaker A: Do that. [00:46:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:29] Speaker A: And so like, that seed is like, okay, this is much goofier. This is even goofier than the first film. But like. Okay, like, it's. At a certain point, it's like the goofiness is still trauma signature. But it does. It does feel a little sanitized, hilariously, in a pretty. Still goofy gory. It's still got gore in it, but just not as much gore as the first one. Which we will talk about with the final sequel where kind of like the sequel. That sequel feels like it is trying to overcorrect what people said about one and two. [00:47:02] Speaker C: Yeah. It's an insane overcorrection. [00:47:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Is there anything else we haven't covered yet with 2 and 3? Because I feel like if you like 2, you probably might get something out of 3. But I think in my opinion we had such a great time with that first film that 2 and 3 got something out of it. But I don't think enough to be like recommending it or re watching it at least in their current forms. [00:47:33] Speaker C: Yeah, two is a fun like watch through of like because you, you have the expectation but there's enough silliness going on in there. [00:47:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:41] Speaker C: Like, yeah, I could probably rewatch 2 with like a group and like. [00:47:45] Speaker B: Right. [00:47:46] Speaker C: Dumb enough. And three just overstays its welcome. [00:47:50] Speaker B: Oh so much. I will say one highlight of three, maybe the only highlight of three. I kind of liked the, the like devil reveal scene, like where he comes out of the chairman guy. It was pretty cool. [00:48:07] Speaker A: I was worried that the devil was going to show up and do nothing for 10 to 15 minutes. But the fact that he shows up in front of Toxie and they go straight into It's a video game. Even though what comes ends up becoming a video game is pretty lame in places. [00:48:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:22] Speaker A: I'm glad they just got into it. Especially how much they kind of slow the pace down with the toxicos, corporate and. Yeah. [00:48:34] Speaker C: And at the very base, like I'll give three. Like at, @ the very bare minimum it is the most compelling thing in it is that why would Toxie ever join apocalypsing? Because the love of his life wants to see. So let's finally give one more thing for the non seeing girlfriend to do for a scene. [00:48:59] Speaker A: And I will give three props. I was worried when we watched the par three trailer together because we watched three and four separately. [00:49:07] Speaker B: Right. [00:49:07] Speaker A: We watched one and two together. But part three, I was really fucking worried. We were to spend 20 to 30 minutes on her being afraid of him because she can finally see him. And I'm glad that what we get is a gag where she's afraid of her doctor more so than Toxie himself. Oh yeah, you're just as beautiful as I think you are. And I'm like, oh, I think Adam went, oh, thick. Fuck yeah. Not gonna waste time on this. We're just gonna go right into them just being fine. Yeah, she gets her eyesight. And I was like, oh, the devil's probably gonna take that away. And then lo and behold, the devil just takes away your eyesight. Yeah, it's okay. God gave it back. But then she lost it again between three and four. It doesn't matter. But it's. I mean it. I think the best part of part two and three is the posters and I believe if you watch the trailers for both films and you think, huh, that could be fun, or I'm not really into that. That's probably how you're gonna feel watching the movies in general. Like, I feel like there was. There's a morbid curio I. I've constantly talked about on the pod. There's a morbid curiosity of just films, especially franchises that clearly were never meant to go to become a franchise. And Toxis kind of feels like one of those. And it is interesting just to see how with 3, 3, 2 and 3, the kind of. There's a bit of a softness in this. Going from like a hard R unrated energy in that first film to being like just an R and 2 and 3. And then. [00:50:39] Speaker B: Yeah, really kind of like a perfunctory art. [00:50:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:44] Speaker B: Like, yeah, you know, we're just gonna throw in a couple body dismemberings, you know, just to make it R rated. And some nudity. Like. [00:50:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And it again, I think the silliness does at sometimes call moments that could be much more intense and much more dark if you made it more serious. Like, I think, like, I think part two has the one moment where Claire gets attacked and I believe, assaulted by a whole lesbian gang. [00:51:14] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:51:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:15] Speaker A: And then like, she's like, now I'm gonna fight you. And then they have like a cat fight it in their bed. [00:51:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:22] Speaker A: And I was like, well, I guess it really. It feels less gross because you're making the silly and you're making slide whistle sound effects. [00:51:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:31] Speaker C: There's such an earnestness to like the joke still in like, yeah. Three where four. What just really grinds my gears about is that it feels like the over correction of them being like, well, people actually liked when it was all shock value. So we're just gonna do every disgusting, shocking thing that, you know, you can't put this in the movies these days. [00:51:53] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, we will. [00:51:55] Speaker C: See, that's such a gross overcorrection versus like parts two and three. It's like, yeah, they toned it down, but it's because, like, there's this earnest interest in like Melvin's backstory and that they're trying to explore while also Lloyd Kaufman just wanting to go back to Japan and all that. And then. [00:52:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:15] Speaker C: And then four opens up with the school for the R words. [00:52:19] Speaker A: Let's. Yeah. [00:52:20] Speaker B: So, yeah, four. They finally remembered that this is a Troma property. [00:52:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:26] Speaker B: And that we're gonna make a fucking Troma movie. [00:52:28] Speaker A: So here's. So here's the Thing There is an 11 year gap between 2 and 3 and Citizen Toxi. At least when it kind of. I think when I did its festival run, I think it's world premiere. I got a double. Double check. This, I believe, is August of O1, I believe, like right before. Because I think. Because I think the cut we watched, because I believe in 2008 they restored the film in like its full unrated nastiness. And I believe in 2001 they probably cut some things. I assume they probably cut any World Trade center shots. You got twin towers stuff. Because there's a lot of twin towers in all four, all three of these movies. In terms of like New Jersey, the backdrop of New York and yeah, going into like it's 11 years now. We're. It's the. It's the 21st century. Yeah, they're shooting this in 99 for sure. But like, what exactly is this going to be? Because also the film starts before we even get to the opening. Opening scene. It starts with a Stan Lee monologue, a narration. [00:53:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:35] Speaker A: That basically apologizes for 2 and 3 saying that we didn't go. This is something that apparently people didn't want. We apologize for that. This is the real sequel. They outright say that Citizen Toxie is the sequel they believe fans wanted from the series. And what we get is exactly what Andy said. It is a trauma film that is just making it as trauma as it can be. Regardless of plot, regardless of character. Doesn't matter. It is. Exactly. It is the type of thing that you see the trailer for this movie and you go, what the is going on? And then you also forget what you see in the trailer because you're like, I don't know what I just saw. And then you get to that point in the movie and you go, oh, I remember now. What the fuck? And then you get, you get a movie that I would argue compared to 2 and 3 feels like a shot in the arm in the worst way possible. Shot of heroin in shock. It is shock. It is like if. If you get a shot in, it's like a shot in the arm. And then after you get a shot in the arm, whoever administered that shot is now constantly punching that same spot to dead arm you for like solid. [00:54:59] Speaker B: And dancing around you going, nightmare, nightmare, nightmare to ruin your trip. [00:55:04] Speaker A: And I, I really want to hear what you two think. Because I feel like I want to. Because I. It's just. I want to hear what you two think. Just start it off. [00:55:17] Speaker C: It's the grossest version of The Santa Claus 2 that I've ever seen. [00:55:22] Speaker B: Wow. Yeah. [00:55:23] Speaker A: That's Santa Claus 2. [00:55:25] Speaker B: Oh, my God. Yeah. Visually gross. Morally gross. [00:55:31] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Shot on. Shot on. Feels like camcorders. [00:55:39] Speaker B: Oh, my God. And Toxi himself looks like absolute dog shit. [00:55:43] Speaker A: He looks like dog shit. [00:55:45] Speaker C: But at least we get the voice back. [00:55:47] Speaker B: Yeah, the voice. Yeah, the voice helps. [00:55:49] Speaker A: That is, again, I think, in my opinion, watching wise, every time Toxie talked in two and three, there's a point of like. And this is outside of narration. When you add narration, it's even worse. But I think, like, any time he talked, I was like, fuck me. Like, he just sounds like Melvin. Like, he's not supposed to sound like this. We've already established he's supposed to have this weird, weirdly deep voice. And then you get to part four, and when he goes, not right now. I gotta impregnate my wife. It is. I lost it. I was like, if anything, I give this movie props to at least bring back a voice that sounds like the original film. Yeah, like, it is. And the guy that they get, even though that mask is so much shittier than even though he doesn't look great in two and three. I mean, Toxie is a character is not supposed to look great. He. He looks like shit in all four of these movies. But at least in the first film is like the best looking of shit. This one is just a rubber mask is what it looks like. And the only benefit to Toxie, I think, in this film is I believe it's the tallest actor to play him in all the films. I believe he's, like, nearly seven foot tall. Yeah, they shoot this movie, but there's just. Go for it. Give me more. I need. I want to hear a little bit more. Because I feel like you both are more on the same page. [00:57:10] Speaker B: Yeah, well. Well, we kind of hinted at it in talking about, like, the softness of two and three and how, you know, even though those movies are overall not good and often boring and kind of spinning wheels, There is sort of an endearing quote quality to them. Like this kind of weird, perverse, storybook quality of, like, oh, we're traipsing back through the adventures of this goofy little guy who dismembers people. The Toxic Avenger. And four is a hard shift, as it announces in the very beginning. [00:57:49] Speaker A: Immediately. [00:57:50] Speaker B: Yeah, back to, like, what Troma's really known for, which is, like, really just foot all the way down on the pedal on provocative scale, like, to the point of, like, almost at the expense of its own ability to be funny. It's Just like, let's be as gross, as offensive as, you know, sensitive as possible in the topics we touch. And hopefully if we do it crazy enough, it's funny and for the most part it's not. Yeah. And so I think it's. It was weird for me watching it because it, like, I was like, oh, yeah, I remember Tromeo and Juliet, how much I fucking hated that movie. That's exactly what I wanted this series to become. [00:58:50] Speaker A: You miss Lemmy. You're like, oh, that's right. Lemmy does do the narration of trivial Juliet. I really missed it. [00:58:56] Speaker B: Yeah. The cameos, too, are gratuitous and not particularly fun. Except for one at the end, but we'll get there. Yeah. I really hated this movie. And I think the only thing. I think the only reason I would like to not call it the worst of the series is because I was never bored like I was with three. Three. I like, glazed over. [00:59:26] Speaker A: Mm. [00:59:27] Speaker B: I. I remember the plot of three and like a lot of the gags that happened, but I was like becoming a vegetable watching that movie. And two or four, I was at least engaged the whole time. Even if it was like, hate watching. [00:59:43] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I could see that for sure. [00:59:47] Speaker C: It's like it goes. You go from part two and three where it's like they ask themselves, what's the funniest thing we can do next while living in this world? To four, where they go, what's the most fucked up thing we can do next while in this world and suffering together? And it's just non stop with that. Of. [01:00:08] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. [01:00:09] Speaker C: It just. You just got. Got to keep watching it. [01:00:12] Speaker B: So. [01:00:13] Speaker C: Yeah, it's engaging, but there's just. I hated so much. I hated all of it. I. Well, so much rape in this movie. [01:00:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:25] Speaker C: That I was not expecting because there's like in literally the entire series leading up to it, it's like Julie, the original Nancy and girlfriend in the first movie. [01:00:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:40] Speaker C: Almost gets raped by one of them and a. [01:00:43] Speaker A: Not Taco Bell. Yeah. [01:00:44] Speaker C: Yeah. And that after a dog. And it's as like a. It's as a device to show how evil this person is. Where it felt like it was used so much for like a joke or shock in 4. [01:01:01] Speaker A: Yeah. 100%. [01:01:02] Speaker C: That was just so. Again, they're asking themselves, what's the most shocking thing we can do to provide that shock value instead of what's. [01:01:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:13] Speaker C: Versus what's the funniest? And I think I preferred what's the funniest. [01:01:17] Speaker B: Yeah, there's. There's almost an unbridled like just Glee at the opportunity to do the most fucked up thing that they can think of. Which like there's an error of that in the other three films in the series. But it's. I don't know, a lot of that is like kind of stupid in a self aware way. Like you know, we'll have these characters do this awful thing. But these characters are also just like clearly stupid and unlikable and gross and you're gonna watch them get dismembered anyway. And four is just kind of like everybody's gonna be as. As despicable as possible all the time. And we are really excited about that and we think that is the most fun way to make a movie. [01:02:05] Speaker A: We. It is them basically. I think very much hilariously. Citizen Toxie feels like a self reflection in terms of how much they have constantly been pushing the needle that they thought would be the farthest with each one of their films for years and years and years. Because it's like yeah, it's. I think now it's like yeah, looking back at the first film, you know, having like, you know, the kid get run over his head explode and like the people that kill him take pictures and are with Glee or like looking at those pictures and are getting like horny over them watching it now those performances are like. This is clearly and intentionally at the time meant to be as over the top and as silly as possible. But. But also clearly is. There's no way this film didn't come out of that era and wasn't a controversial or like a ban this movie. The era of video nasty. This the first film is a video nasty. It is, it is. And to think with 2 and 3, like I think 2 and 3 wants to push that a little bit. But I think it's also more interested in just having two coherent films as best as it could make together of like. Like 4 hours of content that it really I think loses a lot of like. Because I feel like if the intention originally was to make a two and a three, I think we would have probably had more scenes. Like one that feels like it's pushing a little too far and like almost going that far and then not doing it. And then by the time they get to 4 like Troma's output in the 80s is insane. Troma's output is. There are some iconic schlock outside of Toxic Vendor that a part of like Class of Nukem High, Troma's War. I mean they even like. The funniest thing is when we were watching these films and talking about doing this, Austin revealed to us completely left field of this. The first, technically the first Troma film Austin has ever seen is Dinner My Dinner With Andre. Because Kaufman helped produce that, helped produce that. And it's. It is very clear with Citizen Toxie, there is no boundary they haven't pushed yet by the time they get to this movie. And so they go, I guess we've already hit 11. Can we even get to 20? And if so, what does a 20 look like? And do we just keep going at 20 consistently, regardless if it is shocking without being as funny as it is shocking? And 4 becomes this insane test of Troma being. Like, is this what Troma is in the 2000s? Like, it almost feels like it's trying to be a palate cleanser for a new century of Troma by being like, people are now used to seeing, like, the grossest ever in weird ways and whatnot. Because of us. We were a part of that. But now we have pushed the needle. People are desensitized. How do we make them even more shocked? And how do we. Because the thing is, like, four is. I think it's just a roller coaster in the best and worst way in terms of pacing. Like, it just doesn't stop with, like, every single bit. They do. And they even just, like, the bits you think that they will commit to. Or like, you know, the. The. The superhero squad that shows up, like, very early on and they have, like, this moment of, like, this is. This team is gonna be someone important. They just fucking kill off, like, because this team is stupid. Like, it's. It is. Yeah, it is. It is a litmus test of having. How do you feel when a director and a writer looks at you and goes, that was pretty stupid, right? Like, in the form of a film. And it really, I think, depends on how you feel about having a camera weak at you consistently. Because I think at times, very similar to Tromio and Juliet, another film that is basically constantly winking at the camera because it's like, you know, this story. We're not doing anything that's going to be reinventing the will, but we're going to make it nasty. How nasty do you like this? And then there's times where you have that in that era, and you're like, I don't want this. I just stop doing it. At the same time, though, it felt very full circle going from the Toxic Avenger kind of being very much a foundation of me growing up. Understanding that film in itself is not Just like a radar film is like this and only this. A PG13 film is like this and only this. To see that in the original film and to be an adult and still be shocked like this film. And I can see, like, the difference in terms of, like, the watching this movie. You two had a much worse experience because you watched it by yourself. And I would pro. And I probably would be more in your guys's camp if it wasn't for the fact that when Adam and I were watching this together from the get go, Adam's jaw was a gape for the entire thing. And we both looked at each other and went, holy. This. This is like, I think at one point. And like, Andy Adams did the same thing where he's like, I'm. Look, he's like, I. I'm not bored. Like, he's like, I'm just like. He's like. I was like. Because we were laughing, we were losing our minds. Just how. Like, why the. Why is this the angle you're going. But at the same time, I'm like, literally the night before, we watched three, and we were like, we gotta do it. We just got. Got to watch three. You just got it. We got to get through it. Then when we got to four, opening a year after Columbine, doing a school shooting, terrorist attack on a special needs school as your opening thing. [01:07:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:56] Speaker A: Is insane. And also committing to. And also it being a diaper mafia, where someone just shs their pan. It is very much like, I'm locked in. I hate being locked in. But what the is this gonna happen next? And then when Toxie shows up, it doesn't get any better. It gets more insane. Yeah. His. His new sidekick, Lard Ass. Lard ass. It is. There's the shot. I think there's a shot in the. In the first scene where. Where a guy, one of the diver mafia, shits himself. And then Toxie bends his body, he takes his head and shoves him up his ass so hard it comes out his back. [01:08:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:08:46] Speaker A: And I looked at Adam and it's like. It's just in the violent nature, but. But just shittier. It's literally just doing the goofiest thing you could possibly do in the most heinous way. [01:08:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:59] Speaker A: When you have a character who is consistent, who's consistently character. He has an arc, I guess, a Tito, and he has. He has a leather jacket. This is rebelliously R word. [01:09:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:14] Speaker A: It is written in like flames. It is just. I never want to watch this movie again. I want to make that very Clear. No. But I think out of all the sequels, I had the most fun and probably enjoyed this one in an experience sense. Because I never thought one of these films would, like, make me uncomfortable the way that this one did or shock me. Like, we brought it up in our tech, the one thing you brought up in the text chain. Because I knew when we got to this movie, it's hard. It's hard to listen to how we describe this one movie without the context of just trauma in general. Because everything in this movie is horrifying without context. It is. There is rape, there is a lynching, there is a bunch of gore. [01:10:01] Speaker B: There is horrifying with stereotypes, too. [01:10:05] Speaker A: But, like. But trauma still does this. Like, the lynching scene is insane. That was the only time I think both Adam and I, like, looked at each other and were like, yikes, what do we. What is this gonna be? And then to get to a point where the. I believe his name is God, who's the. Who's the black guy who becomes a part of the team? Pompey and. [01:10:32] Speaker B: Oh, Pompey. [01:10:34] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, Pompey. When Pompey becomes a part of the team as a disembodied head and goes, it's okay, man. You'll just get. You'll find a body for me at some point. Point, it's like, oh, my God. Like, it has this energy that, like, there are. Like, this is a film that is pushing between smut that has no sense of awareness and like, actually, if it wanted to be. It's a very big gap between this, but, like, a solid sequel to the Toxic Avenger franchise. Like, it really is, like, it is entirely shocking value. There's like. And at this point, it's like, this is Toxic Avenger 4. Who gives a. About arcs. Who gives a. About characters? It's all about the gags. Like you guys said, let's do gags. It's parallel universes. That's comics, right? Yeah. The Noxious Offender. Yeah. [01:11:29] Speaker B: Which I will say that that was one element I said earlier that I was not bored during this movie. But like, yeah, the duel, like, the. The parallel arcs of. Of Toxie and Noxie did get long in the tooth. And I don't think I needed, like, to follow Noxie as a character throughout the movie. I think you could have just introduced him and then had, you know, the movie be a build up to them fighting without doing all that. But yeah. [01:11:58] Speaker A: Yeah. Because that's where the worst. I think. [01:12:01] Speaker B: And I'm sure that worst tendencies come out. Yeah. And I'M sure that was born out of the Troma Desire, the Kaufman esque desire to show Toxie doing horrendous things. Because this is a Troma movie and we gotta have that. But people love Toxie and we don't want to make Toxie do them. So let's have Toxie's evil twin do them. Yeah. [01:12:22] Speaker A: Yeah. But it's like the first. The scene in the school is just myriad of set design energy that I don't understand. Like the Mexico day. [01:12:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:35] Speaker C: Take a Mexican to Lunch day. [01:12:37] Speaker A: Yeah. And they're all eating shitty tacos. And then like the one character outside. [01:12:43] Speaker C: Of like sunglasses, mustache, like. And to think this is all happening on Take a Mexican to Lunch day. [01:12:49] Speaker A: And it's like. At one point, the teacher also adds a bit of lore with Toxie where she says, you were my number one studio. You're like the best alumni. It's like, that is so stupid. And I think it's like. I guess in a universe where they just change his last name in the second film just to make him half Japanese, apparently it is. It is funny that, like, it's, It's. It is. I think with Noxie as a character, that is where the most offensive shit comes out. Where it feels like that's the closest it gets to being like a Death Wish sequel. Where it's like just absolutely miserable with any kind of self awareness. Because, like, in two and three, I think it gets away with the fact that it gets close to those moments. But that's why Toxi is such a fun character and great in the narrative. Because anytime it could get super worse, that's when he pops up. Like in this. [01:13:44] Speaker B: Pops up and dismembers. The guy who was doing the heinous thing. [01:13:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Like literally when they get trapped trans. When Toxie gets transported to Amortville, the parallel universe, the evil Tromaville, he takes two special needs kids with him. Tito and I believe, Honey. Or Honey. [01:14:00] Speaker C: Sweetie. [01:14:01] Speaker A: Honey. [01:14:01] Speaker B: Sweetie. [01:14:03] Speaker A: There's a scene in the alley where it's pretty much going like, Tito is selling honey for sex. And it is like, okay, was. And then Toxie shows up and then kills all those guys. And it's like, okay, this is what I wanted. I don't want to go any farther. Then when Noxie shows up, it's like, ah, there's a bad tendency here. And then comes the scene where he goes to Claire and they have sex. And then he reveals that he's not Toxi and is like, okay, great, we're having this happen now. [01:14:33] Speaker C: And he says, is your chocolate starfish ready for. I can't remember what he called his. His dick. What Noxy called his dick. [01:14:43] Speaker A: But yeah, because he has a. He has a penis implant. That's. [01:14:47] Speaker B: Yeah, because in Amortville, everybody has plastic surgery. [01:14:51] Speaker A: And yeah, he also has a small. Because Tox Avenger has a big. There you go. Parallel to that. [01:14:58] Speaker C: What Noxy's is. [01:15:00] Speaker B: Is the big. Oh, that is the big. Yeah, yeah. [01:15:02] Speaker A: Yes. That was That. I loved that reveal. That was funny as that was. [01:15:06] Speaker C: Actually. That was. [01:15:08] Speaker A: That was pretty good. Again, it's Toxic Avenger 4 at its, like, kind of whatever best looks like. Because I feel like that depends on how you feel when watching this. It is. I don't think any. This movie is boring. Like, there is lulls. I agree with you that there are lulls when it comes to, like, following Noxy too much as he kind of up Tromaville and tries to turn it into a Mortville in a way, with not a fascist cigar face, whatever his name is. Sergeant Kavinsky or something like that. Yeah, that actor. But it just like. Yeah, but like the third act or Toxie is just annihilating and killing everyone that's in front of him. And then getting into the. The Surge, the. The. The delivery room. And then he has to fight with Noxie. And then it leads to the demonic penis that comes out of Noxy. Right. And. And then that reveals. That leads to the first time in 16 years the original Melvin shows up to play Melvin. And he's. And he looks. They don't even try to make him look younger. He's just. He's just Melvin. And then they also go, I'll be back in the sequel. As if there's gonna be a sequel. Who. [01:16:27] Speaker C: They reuse the footage from number one when Melon first hit. He says, if there's a sequel, I'm coming back. And then. [01:16:35] Speaker A: Yeah, because it feels like. Because around this time, I think right after this is when there are talks about a remake for the original done by a different director. Different studios like Troma would be involved, I think, on a co production, maybe front some money kind of situation. A seal of approval from Kaufman and Hertz that, you know, what they're. What studio. What a bigger studio will do with Toxic Avenger is what they're okay with. There's nothing about this movie that screams, one, that it ever needed to exist or two, that they wanted this to be like, toxie's coming back and he's back for good. Like, everything about the studio pitch oh, my God. Like, yeah, it just is just one of those movies where it's like. I think it has their moments similar to two, but I think something very smaller where, like, anytime it nearly could have gotten. Nearly lost me or made me not laugh, I just. Anytime Toxie says, sergeant Kabuki NYPD in that goofy ass voice, I'm like, it's gonna make me laugh. I hate Sergeant Kabuki man nypd. I don't think he should be in this. I don't understand why he's in this movie other than Troma. [01:17:47] Speaker B: Right. [01:17:47] Speaker A: And to have that ending scene with him. And like, the whole reveal of the twins is the so stupid. [01:17:56] Speaker C: Because he drunkenly falls on to Claire with his dick out and with puke. [01:18:02] Speaker A: That look exactly like his head. And it's like, it's so goofy and it's like, hot. Isn't that funny? And then they do a freeze frame that doesn't freeze. [01:18:12] Speaker B: Yeah, they do the. The Police Squad game. Yeah, yeah. [01:18:15] Speaker A: And then they have Stan Lee say, if you ever have to deal with a parallel universe version of yourself, Toxie will help you take care of that. Like, it's. [01:18:24] Speaker B: Yeah, it. [01:18:25] Speaker A: It is. I think at this point, if you were watching the toxic Avengers sequels, you might as well watch 4 and then be like, well, now I know why there's no more. Yeah, this is really. I. Hilariously, in the sense of Troma and how they made films and how they. What they kind of were interested in, in terms of making the kind of schlock they were doing, this feels like, I guess, the natural conclusion to like, well, how far can we go? Or how far can we push in any kind of direction? And for. Especially for our most popular character, because, like, after this, A5. A5 would just be even more miserable. Like, it just. It very much feels like, well, we're here for the gag. Whether the gag is good or not. A gag is a gag. We're just gonna go for it. We're gonna. We're gonna throw it out there and we're gonna make the worst kind of a water cooler film you can ever think of. Where if you watch this with somebody else or you tell someone to watch this, you're like, man, what the did you tell me to watch this movie was a nightmare. [01:19:27] Speaker C: I'm sorry. [01:19:28] Speaker A: It's like, what. Which part was a nightmare to you? Was it the beginning? Was it the middle? Was it the end? Was it James Gunn's cameo? [01:19:36] Speaker C: Was it. [01:19:37] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Did you know that James Gunn was in this as not Steve. Stephen Hawking. [01:19:42] Speaker B: God, Dr. Phlegm Hawking again. [01:19:45] Speaker A: It's. If anything, Iris, I respect Gun not trying to hide that. That his edgy roots starting in trauma, making the stuff they did. Because he constantly talks about the fact that like Kaufman as a person has always seemed. He is an advocate and a. He's an advocate for the artist. He's an advocate Kit for independent filmmaking. He literally is still a part of Troma to this day. In his mid-70s. He is still out there. He's doing press and for the new Toxic Avenger. Even though it's a legendary film. And it is like he has. He's always aware of what kind of Persona he has and what he's known for with trauma. And the fact that like his movies are genuinely, quote unquote, an acquired taste. Because they're not. They're. They taste like sometimes they are genuinely trashy films that I feel like get away with a lot of the times. The things that if you watch another trashy film that's trying to take it super seriously, it doesn't play well and it's super uncomfortable. And like it like there's some. There's some canon films that I feel like that really are films that push the envelope but take themselves too seriously. And that makes those gross moments even worse because of that. And it is the thing with Troma that I feel like 4 perfectly encapsulates why they are still around and so much they perform today. But also why they're. You're not gonna see one of their films in a theater unless it's like the Toxic Avenger remake where it's like other studios are involved. There are actual actors involved in that. I mean it is. It is very much so like they have. They have blockbuster energy in like video. Blockbuster video energy in a way that like, you know, in this day and age is now, I guess like maybe red box energy, if that still exists. It's or like streaming like it feels. [01:21:52] Speaker C: Me of like that. That one weird YouTube channel that the friend would recommend to you. Like in high. [01:21:57] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [01:21:58] Speaker C: You know, like that was. That's kind of the energy. Or that's the modern version of like. [01:22:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:22:03] Speaker C: Where you would find a trauma esque, like, what the fuck? This is what you're into. [01:22:07] Speaker A: This is what you like. They just. They've always. They've never felt like, how do we reach the kids? They don't give a how they reach the kids. They're just gonna make something to be like, kids will find. I hope the kids will find. [01:22:21] Speaker B: It. [01:22:21] Speaker A: Yeah, Like, I mean, I think the, like, class of Nukem High, I feel like, is like their other series that has. That has three or four different iterations. But I think the fourth one is basically a miniseries or like, they made like a streaming show or something of it. Like a small. It was like streaming only and I think was like, had to be cut into place parts because of COVID And like, they. So like, that's the most. I feel like it's like, how do we reach people? Is like they have a trauma streaming service now. And even so. But. But they still have a lot of their films on YouTube for free. They still really push and advocate for independent filmmaking. And I think the Dinner with Andre connection just shows like, Kaufman. Kaufman does no taste. He just doesn't have it and doesn't want it. Like, he just. He has it when it comes to things that he likes. But, like, also, it's like when he makes it, he's no. [01:23:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:12] Speaker A: And I think. And I mean, just to think that there is a. There's a direct connection between Lloyd Kaufman and the best superhero film we got out of 2025. The fact that, like, that pipeline is just like the amount of people who talk about they have worked with Kaufman in the past that are still working on horror, independent filmmaking or in the gun situation. Situation. Putting Kaufman in every single one of his fucking films. Yeah, he's in Superman. I was wondering where you popped up in Superman, but apparently he is in fact in Superman. [01:23:42] Speaker C: He's against the glass. 1. [01:23:43] Speaker A: He's a. He's a small party. He's right outside the bank when Green Lantern puts, like, the wall up. Like, he's one of those people. So I don't think they ever cut to his face, but I think they did shoot like, Kaufman in the window at one point. [01:23:57] Speaker B: The but trauma to hope maxing superhero movie timeline or pipeline. [01:24:03] Speaker A: I'm just saying the reason why we get the Superman man tomorrow is Lloyd Kaufman. That's what I'm clearly saying. Yeah, but I mean, but it is like. I think the Toxic Avenger sequels show that, like, there is. There is a. There is a limit. There's a limit. And I think each one of these films show that limit in different ways. Where I think two's limit is like, how. How much can you gauge an audience's interests when you sell something in a trailer? But you don't have enough to fill a whole film? So how do you fill that gap between going to Japan, coming back from Japan? Three is really pushing what you can you constitute as a film in a franchise when you have like 25 constitutes. [01:24:46] Speaker B: A full feature film when you have. [01:24:48] Speaker A: Like maybe a third act and that's it. And you have to find a way in between. And then fourth is like the limit of like what I think Troma could I guess comfortably do before the conversation of is this technically snuff or not? Like it's. Or like, is this technically, like, why are we wasting money on this? Like, really push. Pushing the envelope in a way where it's like, listen, I guess in a six sense away. I appreciate you seeing scene. If you can push that and see if it's the worst thing in the world. But at the same time, as much as I think Adam and I had fun watching four, this is probably the first trilogy we've done for this see like done for the show in a while where I really just say don't really watch these three. Unless you are like really curious after watching the original. [01:25:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:25:36] Speaker A: Because I. Yeah, like, the original is not perfect by any means. But I love the original and what it kind of stands for in terms of trauma strengths. Trauma's weaknesses, but almost ultimately become strengths because of how stupid it is. And also like, in terms of like getting people into B movie schlock so bad. It's good stuff. That is an easy entry point. [01:25:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:25:57] Speaker A: And then from that point forward, if you want to watch more, you certainly can. [01:26:02] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:26:03] Speaker A: But it really just depends. Like I just. Because I. I know, like, I. If anything, four really showed me what kind of how much of the envelope I was willing to push with so bad. It's good. Like, in terms of like, what. What am I willing to go for with this? And to be honest, like, because there's. I think a few weeks ago, I think like a month or so ago, Adam watched a Troma film out of nowhere. I think he's told you guys about it called Redneck Zombies. Oh, yeah. That. That movie is. That movie literally is shot on what it looks like a camcorder with like $10. And my God, that movie. I was losing my mind halfway through because I was like, I have no. Adam was loving it. Adam has constantly been pushing it since he saw it though. He wants to watch it with you guys. I think he said. [01:26:52] Speaker B: I don't think he's mentioned it to me really. [01:26:54] Speaker A: Because he's like, yeah, I think at one point you were in the vicinity when he brought it up. And he. And he looked at me and went, how? I know you don't like that movie, but you didn't see the whole thing. And I said, adam, I missed the first five minutes. I saw, like, the whole thing. [01:27:07] Speaker C: You don't understand five minutes. [01:27:09] Speaker A: But, like, it is. I. I think Austin said earlier, I appreciate what Troma stands for. I appreciate. I. Like, the trauma still exists. But at the same time, I am not foolish in thinking, like, gee, I wonder my trauma's not bigger. Like, I don't have those. I don't have those delusions. I know why. [01:27:29] Speaker C: Yeah, it oddly reminds me a lot. [01:27:31] Speaker A: This is the Toxic Avenger sequels. Like, it reminds me a lot of. They're horrifying in. In honor of the October season. They're horrifying in a way you can't imagine, if anything. At its worst parts. [01:27:43] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. They. They remind me a lot of the terrifier. [01:27:47] Speaker A: Austin, I think you're muted. [01:27:48] Speaker B: I can't hear you. Austin. [01:27:49] Speaker A: What? I'm going to keep this in so. So don't even think I'm going to cut this. [01:27:52] Speaker C: Oh, I'm still talking on my. [01:27:54] Speaker A: Did we lose you? [01:27:55] Speaker B: Maybe it's recording on his end and he's. [01:27:58] Speaker A: Can you hear me? [01:27:58] Speaker B: You know when it's. When you compile all this together, he'll be. We'll be talking all the way. [01:28:03] Speaker A: Oh, that's gonna be so worse, actually. [01:28:04] Speaker B: But I can't duck it. [01:28:06] Speaker C: Can you hear me now? [01:28:08] Speaker B: Can I be heard? [01:28:08] Speaker A: No, no, no, man. I can't hear you at all. [01:28:11] Speaker C: Turn this off. [01:28:13] Speaker B: I wonder what he's saying. [01:28:14] Speaker A: I wonder now. I really don't want to cut this out now. [01:28:18] Speaker B: I'll have to listen to the episode to find out. [01:28:20] Speaker A: How dare you. I do listen. I listen at times. [01:28:24] Speaker C: Can you hear me now? I'm going to my MacBook microphone. [01:28:27] Speaker A: Oh, my. [01:28:28] Speaker C: Can you hear me now? [01:28:29] Speaker B: There you go. [01:28:30] Speaker A: There we go. There we go. [01:28:31] Speaker B: Okay. [01:28:32] Speaker A: God. This is gonna. [01:28:33] Speaker B: All right, backtrack to redo your closing thoughts. [01:28:37] Speaker A: Yeah, redo your closing. I'm gonna write down at what point I couldn't hear you. You're just gonna have to remind myself. [01:28:44] Speaker C: You, like, start talking, they go, oh, oh. And then, like, awkward pauses. What I was gonna say. These. These movies, oddly remind me a lot of the terrifier trilogy of something that pushes boundaries, is very earnest, is very independent, stays in the way, Shock value, is very nasty, has a very specific audience and isn't really caring to reach out to an audience behind that. But in a different way, though, has reached a larger audience because it does things in a cleaner way. Like, it's a more polished product at the end of the day compared to something like Troma. So it's not a perfect comparison, but it's what. It's what I thought of while watching especially Part four, where I'm like, this is gross. Pure shock value. But like no one's stopping them and they're just doing it. And like, you know what? [01:29:39] Speaker B: That's the. [01:29:40] Speaker A: What. [01:29:41] Speaker C: The bedroom scene in Terrifier 2 is. [01:29:44] Speaker A: A good reference point because I mean the. The remake is literally using Terrifier in its advertising. Because. Yeah, one of the. One of the studios that produces and distributes the film outside of Legendary is pushing from the studio behind Terrifier. Yeah, because. Because it's unrated like Terrifier. [01:30:01] Speaker C: Because it was the same distributor. Because the new remake they Legendary decided to just bury because no one. [01:30:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:30:09] Speaker C: They didn't think that they could get any theaters to pick it up. Well, I think it had an NC17 rating and they just didn't want to cut anything or get rerated. So they're just gonna bury it and go straight to dvd. But then it got brought back for theaters by the distribution company that. The Terrifier three. I think it's in theaters now actually. [01:30:33] Speaker B: Well, yes, as of the time of this. This recording. Yeah, yeah, it was. [01:30:37] Speaker A: And for how long? I don't know. We had. Actually by the time we recorded this, it probably is already gone in some places. [01:30:42] Speaker B: But yeah, we have. We. Full confession. None of us have seen the. The remake yet. [01:30:48] Speaker A: Well, to be fair too, I did try to look up. I was kind of being like, oh, what if I see it beforehand? And then we go into this and go, haha. I have seen it all the times are past 7pm that was like around the time we were gonna record tonight. And I was like, well, maybe I'll catch you in the future. [01:31:08] Speaker B: We just plan our viewing right here on air. [01:31:11] Speaker A: It is so funny though that when Austin and I saw Terrifier 3 together last year, it was like a matinee and then like Toxic. [01:31:19] Speaker B: Wait, you saw what? [01:31:20] Speaker A: Oh, Terrified, Terrify three and the. In one of the big theaters in Matt and a matinee. [01:31:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:31:25] Speaker A: And like Talk to Avenger is just like. It's unrated too. And while they're pushing the Terrifier angle, I'm not surprised that they're only pushing like evening hours. They don't see it during the day. But yeah, I mean it's. It is. It is. You go, Andy. [01:31:42] Speaker B: Well, just building on Austin's comparison, the. The Toxic Avengers series is kind of like the Terrifier series. In reverse. Whereas, like, instead of the Terrifier series kind of, yes, it is kind of exploitation for its own sake and just seeing what we can get away with and just having fun with that nastiness, but it's also finding itself along the way and kind of becoming something more than it started as, and becoming a more finished, fulfilling product as it goes. And the Toxic Avengers series kind of just does the opposite, where it starts out as this really well conceived schlock riff and just kind of turns into a parody of itself. [01:32:30] Speaker A: It feels like its biggest budget is at the beginning, as each film goes. Like, yeah, four does feel like it is using its small budget, like, at its most, at its peak, while S2 and 3 is like clearly a bloated budget for one film that now has to be like a weird budget. [01:32:48] Speaker C: Like the budget was going to Japan. [01:32:51] Speaker A: Yeah. It has to be like, it's. [01:32:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:32:54] Speaker A: And even if they did, even if there's certain interiors in Japan they couldn't shoot in Japan, like, they'd have to recreate back in Jersey. Yeah, that clearly would have been a lot of money. But yeah, I. Gosh, I can't wait to talk about the. I can't wait to talk about the Terrifier sequels on this when four comes out. Because that's. Unless five happens. If five happens, I'll be pissed because then we can't talk about it on the pod. That's true. [01:33:20] Speaker B: But, boys, there are some show times remaining for the new Toxic. [01:33:26] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. We should give it a watch. We should, we should, we should. [01:33:31] Speaker B: We'll have to rush to our local theater. [01:33:34] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll have to put my tickets aside for the Bone Temple to go see. I gotta. Yeah, this will definitely date the episode when it comes out. But I think it's funny as today that the Bone Temple trailer came out the same day as Emerald Fennel's Wuthering Heights trailer. Gosh, it's like really the dichotomy of a. Of a movie fan right there. [01:33:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:33:56] Speaker A: Vastly different types of stuff, man, but. [01:33:58] Speaker B: Yeah, give me those fast passes to the bone temperature. [01:34:01] Speaker A: Absolutely. Can't fucking wait. Austin, what would you like? Plug yourself. Thank you for being on the episode today. It's great to have you back and not just be tied to a Chris Pratt episode. [01:34:12] Speaker C: Yeah. Thanks for having me back and having me tied to Toxic Avenger 4, Citizen Toxic. [01:34:19] Speaker A: You wouldn't have had it any better. It's either that or I know what you did last summer. [01:34:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:24] Speaker A: In this timeline. Oh, my God. [01:34:26] Speaker C: Any. [01:34:26] Speaker B: Any Work or strange pastimes you'd like to broadcast to our. Yeah, meager audience? [01:34:33] Speaker C: The only work recently is released a music video with an artist I've worked a few times named Naomi Pulver. Music video is called okay on my Instagram, AustinWebster mov. There are links to it in my bio. Other than that, I'm spending the rest of my free time, as you guys know, watching One Piece, clawing my way through that. I got to 459 today. [01:34:58] Speaker B: Yeah, so you're like 5% of the way there. [01:35:02] Speaker C: 37, I think. [01:35:03] Speaker B: 37%. That's great. Yeah. [01:35:05] Speaker A: If. Anyway, I thought the Toxic Avengers sequels episode would end. It would not be Austin plugging his. [01:35:11] Speaker C: You asked what my hobbies were. [01:35:13] Speaker A: No, it's fine. I love it. I love it. [01:35:15] Speaker C: I will just say that if someone wants to do something other than watch Toxic Avenger Part three or four, because I think Part two is worth a watch. At some point, you always start One Piece. [01:35:27] Speaker B: So at what episode are you gonna start? The livestream? [01:35:32] Speaker C: The live stream. [01:35:34] Speaker B: The live stream of you watching the rest of One Piece. [01:35:39] Speaker C: See, I don't want to do it because then there'll be people popping up who are just spoiling it. [01:35:43] Speaker A: That's actually. Yeah. [01:35:44] Speaker C: Actually, funnily enough, I had the Darth Vader moment today is what I got to. Also. I'm 40% of the way through. I just did the math real quick, so. But no, that. That's it. It's always a blast watching, you know, your movies. [01:35:59] Speaker A: Your wife is really proud of that. So I appreciate you got your one piece Legos. You sent me a picture of your one piece Legos? [01:36:08] Speaker C: Yes. Unfortunately, no. No Troma. No Troma. Tons. [01:36:12] Speaker A: What a shot. Not even Mega Blocks. [01:36:14] Speaker B: I know you've got a low tromaton count right now. [01:36:18] Speaker A: I know we even talk about the mid chlorians of Toxic. Well, it really only is a part in two. [01:36:26] Speaker B: Easily glossed over. [01:36:27] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:36:29] Speaker C: But no, that. That's it. I'm not looking forward to seeing the new one with you guys and. As well as the Bone Temple. [01:36:34] Speaker A: And. [01:36:36] Speaker C: Yeah, always a pleasure coming on and talking to you guys about these fun movies. [01:36:43] Speaker A: It's. I mean, again, I'm glad you were involved. I'm glad we had a blast, you know, just at least having the conversation. And even though you guys had to watch the last one by yourselves, I'm glad we at least got two of the four films together. [01:36:55] Speaker C: Two best. [01:36:57] Speaker A: Yes. But I think thankfully, especially for Andy's psyche, the next trilogy, we will be covering will not be as insane. Although depending on how the third film is going to be, at least one of us might be frustrated by it. But this episode's coming out October 4th. [01:37:14] Speaker C: Okay. [01:37:15] Speaker A: Because of course we record live as always, definitely not months in advance at times. But the next episode, our last episode in October, is tied to a recent release. It is something that is not horror based. Again, like I said in the at the top of the episode, we do have a horror trilogy set up for for later in the year and we are both excited to have that episode, but we will not spoil it yet. But to end out October, we are going to be talking about a trilogy. I think both Andy and I cannot believe actually it's become a trilogy because it's taking nearly 40 plus years to happen. And that is we are covering Tron, Tron Legacy and Tron Aries. We will be talking about the Tron trilogy, Disney's black sheep of a franchise that even though it's made a hundred plus million dollars and has been successful and has had even roller coasters at video games, video games, rad Daft Punk albums, it is yet is truly still one of their black sheep franchises from the very beginning. So I'm excited to talk about this because I love Legacy and the original Tron, similar to Toxic Avenger in a lot of ways, has a special place in my heart for a different reason. Even though I saw both this as the original Tron and Toxic Avenger on G4 when I was younger. [01:38:39] Speaker B: Oh wow. [01:38:39] Speaker A: That was my first time seeing both those movies. I was on cable on G4, but Andy, have you seen the original Tron? [01:38:47] Speaker B: It's been a long time, but yeah. [01:38:48] Speaker A: It'S been a while. [01:38:49] Speaker B: But yeah, I'm excited for this trilogy because I'm just a huge fan of Jared Leto. [01:38:55] Speaker A: And you know who else is a big fan of Jared Leto? Jared Leto. [01:38:58] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. [01:38:59] Speaker A: Jared Leto is a big fan of himself. And God, I hope by the time we get that episode we have good things to say. I mean, I'm excited about the album. I like the cast. I mean Greta, Greta Lee beat in a big film. I'm happy for her. Evan. Evan Peters work. A working man's actor still just fucking chugging along. Ryan Murph, Ryan Murphy, let him loose for a Disney film. [01:39:26] Speaker B: And Jared Leto, a working man's Messiah. [01:39:31] Speaker A: Also 30 seconds from Mars at all times. Yeah, but tune in on October 18th when we talk about the Tron trilogy. But as always, I'm Logan, so Wash. [01:39:40] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [01:39:41] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.