Episode 113: The Rise of Lanthimos

[00:00:19] Speaker A: Hello everyone. Welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Sowash. [00:00:22] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:00:23] Speaker A: And Odd. Odd Trilogies, we tackle a trio of films, whether tied by cast and crew, thematic elements or just numerical orders. And we tackle one by one and discuss the good, the bad and the weird surrounding them. And today, in honor of the newest release and one of the bigger, probably one of the bigger Oscar contenders that we will probably see next year unless something shocking happens. [00:00:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:45] Speaker A: With his latest new film, I believe, called Begonia Bugonia Bugonia, starring Emma Stone and Jesse Plemons. In honor of the newest release of writer director Yorgos Lanthimos's new film, we decided to tackle the rise of Lanthimos which if you don't know, Yorgos Lanthimos is a Greek director. He was born in Athens on September 23, 1973 and he has a career that goes about mid to late 90s in terms of short films, you know, Greek music videos. And then ultimately in the late or like early 2000s he has his first film which is a Greek comedy that he doesn't write and I think he co directs. And then after that we are not talking about that movie. His second film is Kanetta from 2004, 2005. We will also not be tackling that one because today we're gonna be tackling the three films that kind of start his rise into popularity more of on an international side of things, ultimately leading to him being an Oscar winning director with like two Oscar winning films under his belt. [00:01:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:54] Speaker A: Which those films are the favorite. And Poor Things. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Right. [00:01:59] Speaker A: And today we are discussing his first film to get an Oscar nomination and his first kind of festival breakout film, which is 2009 to Dog Tooth, his follow up to that 2011's Alps. And then the film that most people would probably consider their first Lanthimos joint they probably would have watched which was 2015's the Lobster, a Colin Farrell film that is the biggest star studded cast out of the three of these, which we will get to. [00:02:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:26] Speaker A: But Lanthimos is an interesting director a lot of different ways. He does write most. He does co write a lot of his own films. His two Oscar winning films, hilariously enough, are not co written by him. [00:02:43] Speaker B: Right. [00:02:44] Speaker A: They're at Poor Things is an adaptation and the favorite, I believe is entirely hands off writing wise. It's a duo for that. A different duo that he's never worked with in his career. But with these three films in particular, he actually, for the majority of his career, if he does something that I think we will call his full anthemos in terms of like the tone, the absurdity, the darkness of it. Usually has a writing partner with him that he does these three films with and also does kinds of kindness. The killing of a sacred deer. I would say his name but I would butcher the absolute shit out of it. So if you look at those films, you look at the co write, you know who co wrote it with him, it's a pretty prominent part in his career. And Dog Tooth, I. Because I just. We have to talk about Dog Tooth immediately because there's just. There's so much to fucking bite into this. Not even pun intended, I guess. Cuz. [00:03:46] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean it's, it's. It's a really striking first impression. What was, you know, a lot of people's first impression at least on an international level. And yeah, it's. I've heard about this movie for a long time. I mean really ever since I watched the Lobster, I always heard people saying, oh, you got to watch Dogtooth. Dog Tooth is crazy. And it is, it really is. It is. But Lanthimos has this way of at least in his earlier films making like really crazy scenarios feel kind of mundane. Not that he makes it boring, but he makes it, you know, this feels very lived in and very kind of every day in a way. And oddly enough he's also not huge on like opening with context. Like if I hadn't read the like, you know, two or three sentence synopsis of this or Alps before watching it, I probably would have been 20 or 30 minutes into the movie before I had any idea what was going on. [00:04:55] Speaker A: Oh yeah, is. It's shocking how much he lets a film. At least the first two films, Lobster is probably pretty straightforward, unsurprisingly the most popular the three of these films because he pretty much lays it out on the table immediately with voiceover. Voiceover, which is hilarious. And an opening that is absolutely shocking if you have no idea what the context is and honestly is hilarious on a second viewing because you know exactly what's going on after. [00:05:23] Speaker B: Right? [00:05:25] Speaker A: Yeah, he does have a phenomenal like one of the reasons why because again it's like Lanthimos is the type of director while he has two Oscar winning films under his belt. And I think a decent amount of people have probably been aware of his work and even kind of the, you know, pulp, like the pop culture kind of zeitgeist surrounding it because of like the. His collaborations with Emma Stone as well as the fact that his the first Oscar winning Film that he has, the favorite is the film that got Olivia Colman an Oscar and as well as that film led those writers to go on wanting to make, you know, the show, the great Elle Fanning and the Nicholas Hoult, because they constantly kept pushing who Nicholas Holt is in the Favorite. And he's great in that movie, but he's a completely different character in that show. And he's delightful every scene I've seen of that. But he is like, I think the reason why this, because this is. I think my. I collaborate. This is my choice. Your curation. Yeah. [00:06:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:24] Speaker A: Because last year I love the favorite and I think Poor Things is on my favorite films of 2023. [00:06:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:33] Speaker A: And so last year, Lanthimos had a film that came out called Kinds of Kindness. And while our friend group, I think kind of is mixed on certain things with Lanthimos, a lot of us I think were like, holy shit, this is a great cast. [00:06:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:48] Speaker A: Lanthimos is, you know, an award winning director who keeps getting. Does more and more interesting things as he's going on in his career. [00:06:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:06:55] Speaker A: So we decided, you know, like, it'd be kind of cool if we could all kind of get a group together and if Kinds of Kindness comes into theaters, we go see it in theaters. And my God, when we saw that in theaters, the responses in our friend group were all over the place in terms of horrified to cackling to completely perplexed. And I was one of those people who was in all three of those categories at certain times, because that movie is all three of those categories. Yeah, it is a film that is a lot. And I remember when we were leaving the theater and a lot of. I think, I think, I swear, I remember Austin's wife Anna being like, I hated it. And I think because Emma. Did Emma hate it too? [00:07:40] Speaker B: I don't think she liked it very much. Yeah. [00:07:42] Speaker A: And I remember Paige, who is like the most optimistic out of all of us in both films, was just like, I couldn't. I cannot remember. I can discern what her response was. It was certainly something is probably what she. But I remember when that film was coming out and people were actually starting to see it, there was a small subsection of people who were way too excited about this movie because they kept saying, holy fuck, this is Dog Tooth Lanthimos. [00:08:09] Speaker B: Right? Right. He's back to his roots. [00:08:12] Speaker A: And to be completely honest, going into Dog Tooth, the immediate response I had was, I understand why kind of kindness is the way it is. This is literally kinds of kindness. It is Dog Tooth is fascinating. Fucked up. Weird. Hilarious at times movie about a couple who have now trained their adult children to basically be afraid of the outside world. [00:08:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Complete, like completely concealed them from the world. [00:08:44] Speaker A: Telling them that like, you know, there's. It's a wasteland. We find out later that they use cats as like cats are killing people left right in the fields. [00:08:55] Speaker B: Horribly dangerous. [00:08:56] Speaker A: Horribly dangerous animals. They have this weird thing of teaching them. Ms. Like, like teaching them words in the wrong way. [00:09:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Though like if one of the kids learned. Not kids, but like one of their children. They're. They're adults, but yeah, they're. One of their adult children hears a word or like comes across a word that like was not in the parents plan for them to know. Then they like make up a definition on the spot. [00:09:28] Speaker A: Because the movie opens with a gorgeous opening shot of just all three of the siblings on like three separate parts of a bathroom, listening to their father's announcement of the words of the day. And all the words are incorrect. [00:09:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:44] Speaker A: And none of them are responding to them as if they are incorrect. And they're all talking about how they should play a game where they all put their hands under boiling hot water and see who lasts the longest is like the winner of the game. [00:10:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:00] Speaker A: And the age range is basically the oldest daughter who is a running actress throughout all three of these films. And I think she's. It makes sense because in my opinion, out of all three of these films, at least his first two films, she's like the best actress out of all of them. So her to show up in the Lobster, it actually makes a lot of sense, especially with how fucked up her character is in the Lobster. But the oldest daughter, I believe is like in her mid-30s. The second oldest is the only son who's like in his early 30s. And then the youngest daughter, I believe is supposed to be like in her late 20s. And there's this energy where they are very. They are childlike. They are constantly just berating each other like children would and siblings would as children. And then things just get like really mature or really dark all of a sudden where there's. The father has a real life job. [00:10:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:53] Speaker A: Like a power plant. [00:10:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:55] Speaker A: And he just goes there and says like his wife is crippled and she doesn't want anyone to come over to the house. That's why they never have any friends over. It is such a fascinating movie that like I don't love this movie, but I understand why someone, if it just hits the right frequency to them is just like all over this. [00:11:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:15] Speaker A: I mean, there's so many breadcrumb moments. Like, it gives you so much history and lore about this fucked up scenario that you don't understand is happening. [00:11:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:27] Speaker A: Other than the fact that there's clearly. Which I think is a running theme in a lot of Lanthimos work, the idea of power and how it affects regular people, whether they have it or whether they don't. [00:11:38] Speaker B: Yeah. Or the. Yeah. The need to control other people. [00:11:43] Speaker A: God, especially with Lobster. [00:11:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And assert that power over them. Yeah. He all. I mean, Lanthimos also, across all three of these films, loves like awkward, robotic, dispassionate sex. [00:11:57] Speaker A: I. [00:11:58] Speaker B: He loves depicting sex as like a soulless transaction. [00:12:03] Speaker A: It's so weird to say that. Or like, because you feel like if someone hears you say that, they're like you. Like how someone makes sex so disconnected. But it's like. [00:12:11] Speaker B: In all honesty, I didn't say I love it. I said lantimous. [00:12:13] Speaker A: No, but like, I was going to chime in in terms of saying, like, I'd love. [00:12:17] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. [00:12:18] Speaker A: I think it's some of the funniest shit that happens in the movie in terms of, like, being able to figure out a way to, like, at times make it funny, but also find a way to make it very dramatic and also very sad and find a way that is like, genuinely. It doesn't feel like the male gaze in a way that like, a lot of sex scenes really do. [00:12:41] Speaker B: Where it feels almost clinical. Yes. Like. [00:12:44] Speaker A: And like, especially in Dog Tooth. [00:12:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Like an alien observing human beings procreate. [00:12:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:51] Speaker B: Like. [00:12:51] Speaker A: Yeah, because it's interesting because, like, Alps and Lobster, I think, have that same. Have similar sex scenes, but just a little bit more to grab onto that's less sad. It's still sad. It's still dispassionate. [00:13:05] Speaker B: But like the lobster. [00:13:06] Speaker A: Yeah, both. Both Al. Like the sex in those movies. Like, the nudity as well. The nudity is never treated as anything of just like. Of like. [00:13:15] Speaker B: It's not. [00:13:15] Speaker A: Again, it's not a male director constantly trying to make the audience just like be at all of someone's naked body. It's very cold, very realistic. It's literally someone will just automatically. You'll just see a cock just randomly in the middle of the shot and it's just like, okay. And someone's just, you know, both these people are naked. And you'll have someone say, I don't like this position. And that's like the end of the scene. Like, it really. It is interesting. Like Dogtooth, really. You know, Building the foundation and blueprint to what like Lanthimos ultimately, you know, is what makes a Lanthimos film. Like it. It makes sense. And we've talked about this with other directors in terms of, like, how their first films really do build that built blueprint for later films. But considering how, like, varied Lanthimos premises in his other films are, it's kind of insane how, you know, time periods are different. Sometimes crazier scenarios happen in his other films. And ultimately you can come back to this movie and be like, yeah, it still has even poor things, has moments. And. Oh, yeah, that's like this. Except that movie is just gorgeous, right? Like a steampunk kind of scenario or, you know, in kinds of kindness. You see a lot of, like, more of a refined version of the conversations about abuse and power and how people just need other people to a detrimental degree. And it's just very fascinating to just watch Dogtooth and be like, this is like, this man's coming out the gate. And again, it's his third film, but still, like, see this film. Be like, he. He gets it, like, whatever he wants it to be. He clearly understands what he wants to get out of, like, making these movies and leads to films that, like, are. I think all three of these films can be designated as a comedy, just. But with asterisks. Yeah. [00:15:12] Speaker B: The driest, bleakest dead pain comedy. Yeah. It's like, how funny is it? How fucked up we are? Like, it just. As beings. [00:15:23] Speaker A: What is. What was your biggest laugh, I guess, out of the three of these movies, but I guess specifically Dog tooth. [00:15:30] Speaker B: Dog tooth, probably. Oh. Oh, yeah. I wrote down my biggest laugh. Not because I knew you were gonna ask that, but the. When. When the plane goes outside the yard and the dad gets in his car, drives 3ft until his door is outside the fence line, gets out of his car, picks up the plane and reverses his car three feet back into the yard, you know, because he's taught his kids, like, nobody can go outside the compound. And if you do, you have to be in a car. So he's. He's, you know, demonstrating that to them. But it's just hilarious because it's like there's this little plane literally within arm's reach of the driveway gate, but he drives his car three feet, and I just fucking cracked up at that. [00:16:17] Speaker A: That's great. The airplane stuff is so funny because. Because later on you also see how the kids believe that airplanes fall out of the sky while watching them distract the kids. And the mom just chucks. [00:16:29] Speaker B: Yeah, airplane they hear the sounds of a real airplane in the sky. She's hiding in the bushes and chucks one. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Because early in the film, they say when. When that one falls out of the sky, that's going to be mine. And you're like, what the fuck does that mean? And then later on in the movie, just casually, you see the mother just chuck a toy airplane into the yard. The kids go crazy. Yeah, my runner up. Because I have two. My runner up favorite gag is when the dad puts the fish in the pool and then he dresses in a scuba outfit with the harpoon gun. [00:17:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:07] Speaker A: And that's also the scene where the daughter goes, yeah, there's only two fish in the pool. And the dad, who knows how many fish he bought the pudding pool goes, looks like there's three of them. And she goes, one must have shown up by the time I came out. But my favorite bit, it was a bit I saw a mile away and it still made me cackle, is the Frank Sinatra. I'm gonna play a song that your grandfather wrote about. [00:17:33] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:17:34] Speaker A: Just plays a classic Frank Sinatra song and then translates it incorrectly about how he loves everybody and loves your family. I was losing it, because in my head, I'm like, what is the most, like, classical. If it's an American artist. [00:17:50] Speaker B: And I'm like, yeah, it's got to. [00:17:52] Speaker A: Be Sonata if they're saying it's your grandpa. And it's like, so funny how it's ridiculous. It's so ridiculous. The movie, just out of the three of these movies, I feel like this one really is immensely sterile, but also gives you, like, the least amount of just, like, full context. Like, at least in the. In Alps, I feel like I would. [00:18:17] Speaker B: I think that's Alps. [00:18:18] Speaker A: Alps. Alps, I think is. I. I have to rethink. Maybe I'll change my mind as we go through the pod. But, like, I think with Dogtooth, it's like, there's so many questions. I think the difference is with Alps, the questions I'm like, I mean, it's probably this. I don't know. Well, dog tooth. I'm like, what the fuck? Maybe these aren't even their kids. Who the fuck are these people? Why is he doing this? Like, it's like they are. There's, like, a multitude of questions you could ask for a dog, too, that you'll never get the answer to, but you'll get just a breadcrumb of information in terms of relationships, in terms of how they discuss communication. Like, the only phone in the house is in the bedroom. Of the parents, and they have to, like, unplug it and hide it in the nightstand. And the kids are always afraid because when mom talks on the phone, it's almost like she's talking to God the way they talk about it. Like someone's going to be in trouble. But what. [00:19:14] Speaker B: Here's a question. I never quite figured it out, and maybe I missed something in the movie. What was your interpretation of the significance of the dog that was at the trainer? There's a scene where he goes to the trainer and he's like, give me my dog back. And they're like, no, your dog's not trained yet. Do you want a beast or a pet or whatever? And he's like, I want my dog back. [00:19:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that. I think. Because I think the whole thing about that, I believe, is the visual gag that when we get to. That when we get to the training place, we see a bunch of Dobermans. [00:19:46] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:47] Speaker A: And then when we get to their dog, it's a fucking, like, cute sheep dog. Like, it's not at all a Doberman. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Sure. [00:19:53] Speaker A: But I also think the conversation is clearly supposed to be about the thematic element about, you know, do you. Yeah, because they're. Because they're basically also talking about, like, in. In a sense, asking the dad, do you want this dog to almost be like your children, or how you're training your children about, like, the multiple stages? Like, are you willing to talk to it like it's a person and give it a job and also find a way to basically coerce it to be yours, whether you want it to be part of the family or protect the family, or like, it's working for you. How. How much do you want to go into it? And I think there's a fascinating angle of, like, how, like. Because he get. And also it is the fact that, like, that dog, while we think initially it's a service dog or, like, it's going to be like a dog, let's just see. You know, they're going to do. They're going to maybe bring it in at some point. They later reveal that. They later reveal that the mom, after a traumatic incident with a cat, they have now decided that the mom is going to have twins and a dog. [00:20:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:55] Speaker A: So also implying that that's how they're going to introduce the dog into the family at some point, is that the mom is going to give birth to the dog. [00:21:02] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:03] Speaker A: Because why would. Because mom doesn't give birth to cats, because cats are evil. So, of course, if mom gives birth to Dog, then it's one of the. It's one of the family. And so it's like this, really. It's an interesting dynamic again with Lanthimos, like all of his films post Dog Tooth, because again, I don't. Neither one of us have seen Kineta or the Greek comedy film. But, like, I think it's called My favorite Idiot. [00:21:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:26] Speaker A: My first Idiot. But, like, from Dogtooth onwards, he has such a visceral and interesting way of how he handles comedy, how he handles sex in his films, and how he handles violence. Because violence in all three of these films is very visceral. [00:21:42] Speaker B: It's very abrupt. [00:21:43] Speaker A: It's abrupt and it's. It is completely devoid of any romanticism. There's nothing awkward. [00:21:50] Speaker B: It's ugly. It's uncomfortable. Sudden. Yeah. [00:21:54] Speaker A: I've never seen a film that is, like, technically not gory. Have so many splatters. [00:22:01] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, the. [00:22:02] Speaker A: Dogtooth has the knife cut. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Where she just swipes her brother's arm with a. [00:22:08] Speaker A: Because he steals the plane. [00:22:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And it splatters across the wall or the fridge or something. [00:22:14] Speaker A: Alps has a scene where someone gets hit in the face and it just like splatters everywhere onto the floor. And then lobster just. Man Lobster just has like, this random upsetting scene that is just like, absolutely insane when it happens. And. And then it just keeps going. But his. Yeah. [00:22:36] Speaker B: Dark Tooth also has the. The daughter using the. The free weight, hitting herself with that. Yeah. [00:22:44] Speaker A: Again, it's always fascinating when people. When people talk about, like, you know, violence or gore in films and how, like, there. There are some people that I've met over the years that have been like, I cannot believe that, like, you don't get squeamish when you watch, like, super gory movies. [00:23:00] Speaker B: Terrifier Zombie. Yeah. [00:23:03] Speaker A: And it's like. Because in my opinion, that stuff so. [00:23:06] Speaker B: Far from reality and even those movies. [00:23:08] Speaker A: At times, like Terrifier 2, which we'll probably talk about at some point whenever 4 comes out. Like, Terrifier 2 has a scene that is absolutely disgusting. [00:23:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:16] Speaker A: And it'll just completely elongated in a way that it's like, please stop. It has no reason to exist other than to be mean. And though. But yeah, but like he said, like, at a certain point, reality is completely devoid of the scene. [00:23:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:31] Speaker A: That's why when you have a small scene that, like, where it just, like you are in a sterile bathroom and a woman just bashes her fucking teeth in with a free weight so she can have a dog tooth. [00:23:44] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:45] Speaker A: Is absolutely. Because the movie's about basically the. It's called dog tooth because the dad tells them that once they get a dog tooth, like a canine, which once. [00:23:56] Speaker B: You lose a dog tooth being. Meaning once you lose your canine. Even though they're adults and they're not going to lose any more teeth, they're gonna. [00:24:05] Speaker A: They're an adult and they can go out to the outside world if they want. [00:24:08] Speaker B: I think you're allowed. His rule also. You're allowed to drive once you lose a dog to. Yeah. [00:24:14] Speaker A: And it's. Yeah. One. It's this. A small amount. It's like that. It's like. It's hilarious because, like, I think we talk about Evil Dead Rise, like, hilariously, you know, with friends. Like, that movie's gory as. But, like, it's eating the glass. [00:24:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:30] Speaker A: And seeing, like the glass kind of protrude from inside the skin. That's. That's what me. That's. [00:24:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:36] Speaker A: Like uncomfortable. [00:24:37] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, for me, it's. [00:24:38] Speaker A: Body horror stuff is very. [00:24:40] Speaker B: Yeah. For me, it's always, like, the more intimate the violence is, like, the more, like, personal. Like, okay. In this, it's a girl standing alone in a bathroom making a conscious decision to bash her face in with a weight. With a, you know, dumbbell. [00:25:00] Speaker A: But then there's like a level of comedy to it. [00:25:02] Speaker B: Sure. [00:25:03] Speaker A: Because she doesn't even clean the sink. And so, like, when it happens, you're like, oh, shit, she's gonna try and hide it or something. And then her dad finds this fucking. This white, just marble bathroom and it's just blood all over the counter and the sink. And it's like, she didn't even. I was like, I get it. She bashed her canine out of her mouth. But at the same time, damn. [00:25:28] Speaker B: The. The Bob scene in the lobster feels almost like a reprise of that scene. Just the way that he goes into the bathroom and finds the stuff and it's like, oh, fuck. [00:25:42] Speaker A: And he just. Oh, my cheese. I can't wait to talk more about lobsters. So fucking good. But this was really good, too. [00:25:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:49] Speaker A: I really enjoyed this movie. [00:25:50] Speaker B: Dark Tooth and Alps too, which we'll get to. But, like, they present a very singular voice from Lanthimos. And, like, I mean, you mentioned earlier not loving this movie. And I don't love this movie either. But it's hard. Not like it's hard to walk away from this movie not feeling like you've seen something incredibly distinct and deliberate from somebody with a unique way of expressing themselves. [00:26:20] Speaker A: Let me put it this way. There are certain films that like if you watch the letterboxd four favorite films that like celebrities and like cat, like directors and writers do. If I see someone say Dog Tooth is one of their favorite films of all time, do I agree? No, I don't think it's one of my favorite films of all time. Do I want to talk to that person? Yeah, because I, Because I, I. Because I hear that and I go, oh, I. I know what you around with. Yeah, I kind of want to know. It's like that and I believe. Is it Happiness, the Philip Seymour Hoffman film? Oh, God. If I've seen a few act like actors say at least one of them say it's one of their favorite. [00:26:53] Speaker B: And I'm like, oh, you've heard actors say that? [00:26:55] Speaker A: I think, I swear. The actress who's the leading companion, is it Sophie? [00:27:01] Speaker B: No. Yeah. [00:27:04] Speaker A: I think one of her fate from Heretic and Companion. Okay. It's one of her favorite films. And I remember people going, like, what? Why is that? Because she says it like, I watch. [00:27:13] Speaker B: It a deep cut. [00:27:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Really? She says she's watched it very. I'm pretty sure she said she's watched it multiple times. [00:27:20] Speaker B: Okay. [00:27:20] Speaker A: Which is also. [00:27:21] Speaker B: I watched it for the first time last year. [00:27:23] Speaker A: It. I know of it and every clip I watch it of it. It's insane every time I see stuff from it. But like Dog Tooth, I swear I've seen an actor or two talk about like, it's their favorite Lanthimos and I think it's like, again, do I agree? No, but I get it. Because it's like there's so much to chew on this movie. And none of it feels like a pretentious. Oh, you just don't get it. Like, it literally just feels like Lanthimos is. If anything, I could see him be like, I. We never really wanted to know why this is the way it is. And we just thought it was good for the actors and like the. In the writing for this. Or he'd be like, oh, I know why, but you don't need to know. Like, it's not. That's not important. These and these facts are not important as long as you're engaged. Because, like, the, the real crux of the movie is basically, what the fuck are these kids gonna do? Because they're all three in their 30s. One of them, the oldest one, basically gets a hold of contraband and completely starts to change and morph personality wise, due to basically watching like, it's pretty clearly like she's watched Rocky and Jaws. [00:28:30] Speaker B: Yeah, she's watched some like iconic movies. [00:28:32] Speaker A: She wants to be called Bruce. [00:28:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And her like she just becomes a parrot of those movies. [00:28:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:37] Speaker B: She just starts quoting them left and right. [00:28:39] Speaker A: Uh huh. Which is so funny. The fact that like she can watch Jaws and not be horrified by that movie, but as soon as she saw a cat, it was the scariest fucking thing. She's. She knows what a shark is, but doesn't know what a cat. [00:28:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:53] Speaker A: And it's. I mean everyone's just really good in this movie. Like the dad is. He's just has this energy that's so unsettling, yet that doesn't keep him from being very funny and very engaging and also have this weird energy of like how he genuinely. While there is like this air of abuse and power dynamic of trying to just be able to mold and shave every single aspect of his kids despite how old they are, there is an energy that he does care about his children in his own fucked up way. With like the, the scene with Christina who's like this security guard that works at his. [00:29:32] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. [00:29:33] Speaker A: Work. She ends up getting money on the side to have sex with the oldest son. So like, I guess his libido's down. Yeah. He doesn't feel like he wants to have sex with his sisters, which unfortunately doesn't. Not like it happens. Yeah. He's forced to do that. Which is just like. Again, it's one of those things where. Yeah, I know. We're like everything we talked about, someone out there has been like, what do you mean this movie is not horrifying. [00:29:59] Speaker B: What do you mean? [00:30:00] Speaker A: This movie is funny and it's like. [00:30:01] Speaker B: It is, but it was very matter of fact. [00:30:03] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. It's not trying to. It's not shocking for the sake of being shocking. It very much feels like it is. All these things that are happening in this movie are like. [00:30:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:13] Speaker A: I just internally, logic wise, everyone thinks this is okay. Not saying anyone who's thought that's okay in the movie is sound of mine. [00:30:21] Speaker B: Right. [00:30:21] Speaker A: But at least there is a internal logic. [00:30:25] Speaker B: That's their life. [00:30:26] Speaker A: And even if it's fucked up, at least it makes sense for the characters as to why they're going along with this and doing this and that and leads to just, you know, the dad being so fascinating. All three of the kids are also unique in their own way. And I think even before, you know, who's the oldest and who's the youngest and who's the middle child. For the longest time I just assumed that the son was the oldest because he's the first character we see. [00:30:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:51] Speaker A: And then later find out that the oldest daughter is kind of the pseudo protagonist. But really all the kids kind of their own thing. They really do play the oldest, middle baby child really well. [00:31:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:04] Speaker A: With those dynamics and are all really good actors and you know, the fact that these are all like, again, Greek actors you've never seen before or you probably have never seen before, and they are just absolutely nailing what they're given and also just have an inherent tragedy to just the fact that like, they want to have the semblance of independence. [00:31:25] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:26] Speaker A: Freedom. But some of them are scared of that. Some of them are unknown of what that means. [00:31:31] Speaker B: Who knew the Greeks could do theater? [00:31:35] Speaker A: Who knew? Who knew the Greeks? Who knew the Greeks had it in them? [00:31:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:39] Speaker A: But yeah, I mean, Dog Tooth is just. It was funny because I kept thinking of Kinds of Kindness while watching this. So if you're somebody who out there is like, you know, have. Has seen kinds of kindness but hasn't seen Dog Tooth and you've always wanted to kind of go back to Kinds of kindness, I would recommend watching Dog Tooth first. [00:31:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:57] Speaker A: To really have the baseline of like, oh, so this guy's just been like this because. Because again, the guy that helped co wrote Dog Tooth with Lanthimos came back and worked with him to do Kinds of Kindness. [00:32:08] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:08] Speaker A: So like, it is. It's literally the same voices. And honestly, a lot of Kinds of Kindness also feels like energy wise in those scenes. Feels very much similar to what these first three film. These three films are doing. And. But I always kind of thought when we walked out of Kinds of Kindness, our friend, Friend of the pod and our, of course, real life Austin Webster, who's done our, you know, our Pratt podcast as well as the Toxic Avenger sequels. [00:32:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:36] Speaker A: He was the one who loved this, who loved Kinds of Kindness the most. [00:32:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:40] Speaker A: And I couldn't help but be like, I think the sick fucking Austin would probably really enjoy this. [00:32:45] Speaker B: Dog Tooth. [00:32:46] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's also because it's one of those movies where it's like you're just watching it and it's like at a certain point the fucked up or like, kind of like the weird atmosphere is very normal until someone walks in the room. [00:32:58] Speaker B: Right. [00:32:58] Speaker A: Like, genuinely, this happened again. Another friend of the pod, Adam, was coming downstairs and was gonna go back and like have dinner with his folks. And he literally walked down the stairs as the oldest daughter was, was giving, was giving head to Christina. And it's again, it's very flat. It's not Sexy in any way, shape or form. It is cold. And I literally paused it and said, dude, I just. So, you know, when you walk in the room, there's not really much I can tell you. [00:33:26] Speaker B: It's like the fucking meme of, like, anime when you're watching it alone, it's just a fight scene. Anime when your parents walk in the room and it's fucking sexy. [00:33:34] Speaker A: And he's like, what? And I'm like, yeah, it's for a headband. He's like, I don't know what that means. It's like, you don't really need to know. But yeah, it is just overall, it really, you know, it's a great litmus test for Lanthimos because even though I think you can still watch, you know, the favorite and Poor things and still really enjoy his work without not really liking Dogtooth, feel like if you. With Dog Tooth, you're gonna be perfectly fine with what the output of this man is post 2009. [00:34:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:05] Speaker A: And what his, like, kind of his. His turn, his execution of ideas are. Because, you know, thankfully enough, all three of these movies, I think, have pretty succinct. This is what this movie is. [00:34:16] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:17] Speaker A: It takes a while to get to that for certain. Like Alps and, like, Dog Tooth has, like, that mystery to it. Alps is definitely the one where I agree with you. If I had not read the synopsis. [00:34:27] Speaker B: I would have been like, it's the most opaque. Yeah. [00:34:30] Speaker A: Yeah. But, yeah, Dog Tooth is, I think. I think, is a really, really good film. [00:34:35] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's just one of those. I feel like for guys like us who, you know, watch all sorts of shit from all different corners of the film world, it's like, it's just fun to see a movie that's distinct like this. Oh, it's. [00:34:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:34:51] Speaker B: You know, it's unique. Yeah. Yeah. I think. I mean, honestly, like, probably the only reason that I'm not, like, over the moon in love with it is just because it is kind of like. Which is sort of true of all three of these movies to some extent. This movie is kind of one note in a way. It's kind of like. Like, you get the idea and then it's kind of a feature film all just exploring that one idea with this one. [00:35:18] Speaker A: Yeah. It is asking the question, how down are you? Stay with this family? [00:35:23] Speaker B: I mean, and the kinds of kindness, you know, conversation is relevant because, like, this could just have easily been one of the segments in Kinds of Kindness. [00:35:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:35:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:34] Speaker A: Honestly, that's why I think probably if I go Back to Council of Kindness. Now, I could see my review going. [00:35:40] Speaker B: Up, appreciating it because. [00:35:41] Speaker A: Yeah, because it's like there's when you might be getting bored. Yeah, that's when I was like, okay, never mind. Yeah, I was double checking what it lost the Oscar to. [00:35:55] Speaker B: I thought you were gonna say how much money it lost. [00:35:58] Speaker A: No, because it like. Another reason why I picked this one to start off and like, is festival circuit wise as well as, you know, just. Dog Tooth is the first film that Lanthimos gets an Oscar nomination for. For best foreign. For best foreign film. It doesn't win it, but I'm trying to. I was trying to double check which film it lost to. Here we go. This is the 83rd Academy Awards. Let me look down at where. So I was off a year, that's why. Because I was like. I was looking at which one it would have been because, like. Oh, interesting. Oh, wow. That is very interesting. It had beautiful. Which had. Which Alejandro goes on Listenary too was one of the nominations. The winner was In a Better World, the Danish Better World. That sounds. That looks. That kind of looks familiar, but I don't think I've ever seen it before. Incendies. [00:36:56] Speaker B: Incendiary. [00:36:57] Speaker A: Incendiary is also a film that is nominated that year, which is interesting. And then Outside the law, Algeria's Choice. And yeah, that's. That's an interesting. That was an interesting mix. [00:37:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:09] Speaker A: So it's just like, it's fascinating to see his work up there and probably be the weirdest of all those movies. Yeah. I feel like it's like. Because we've had, you know, other friends, like, who have been a part of the pod and also just kind of the Ifga who talked to. We've talked about Lanthimos and they've been like, oh, Dog Tooth. Okay. Right. Because again, it seems like we also. Because I remember another reason why I wanted to like dig into early Lanthimos too is because I remember after watching the lobster, there's also Killing of the Sacred Deer is right after that movie. And man, talk about a divisive. That movie was so divisive. I think so many people I would talk to that had seen that movie. [00:37:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:50] Speaker A: And I still have yet to watch it. That's one of the only ones. And that's now, I think, one of the only kind of black blind spots I have with Lanthimos. [00:37:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, that is one that I would be curious to revisit because I didn't like it very much. But that was also the second Lanthimos film. I think I'd only seen the lobster when I saw that. [00:38:15] Speaker A: Which we will get to. In terms of like, of those two movies, it sounds like the lobster is much more palatable in a way. [00:38:24] Speaker B: The lobster is much more. I think it's more accessible. [00:38:29] Speaker A: Definitely very like the absurdity of these three films. It is. The lobster it makes is no surprise since that movie is probably the most absurd because of its dystopian sci fi setting. Yeah, that's a. I think Lanthimos, for a lot of people probably works the best the farther from reality he is. [00:38:48] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, Poor Things is his most fantastical film and also probably his most acclaimed. [00:38:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, you give Mark Ruffalo one of the best performances he's ever, ever given to be one of the biggest bastards. He's such a bastard in that movie. He's so good in that movie. Yeah. Dog Tooth, I mean, was critically well received. It got an. It got an Oscar nomination for best foreign feature. It was Greece's choice. And so ultimately, when you have that under your belt, you can. I mean, what Lanthimos does next will probably. Whatever he does after this movie will probably be compared to Doctooth. [00:39:29] Speaker B: Right. [00:39:30] Speaker A: So unsurprisingly, Lanthimos is aware of this. And so with his next film, I think one of the ways he describes Alps, our second film in the trilogy, is that if, you know Dogtooth, he saw Alps as like. I believe it was like this interesting idea that started with like, you know, prank calls becoming reality or something. Like, you know, what if a prank became like, you know, keeping the facade alive almost to a degree and ultimately became something where he says, I think he said in an interview that like, Alps is the inverse of Dogtooth, where Dogtooth is basically about, you know, these. These people living in a fantastical world that are trying to get out of it in terms of sense. While Alps is about people living in the normal world, trying to escape. Escape it. And with more fantastical ideas. Because Alps premise is actually really fascinating. It is about. Is about a group of people, four people who have a secret little thing on the side. [00:40:33] Speaker B: It's a for hire service. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Yes, it is. A gymnast, her coach, a nurse and a paramedic who all come together and for hire, if you're willing. If someone wants them to, they will pretend to be a deceased person from their life in order to help them grieve loss. And usually what happens is that they. The people that ask them, there's only four of them, so they usually just try to find People that they kind of meet body wise and can meet, like, talent wise and. And ultimately it's for. It's four sad people trying to help other sad people through their grieving and ultimately losing themselves at times in the act and the facade. And it ultimately becomes the biggest. It takes a while to get to this point. I will also clarify, out of all three of these movies, even though I would probably say the Lobster is technically the slowest because it's also objective. It's the longest of the three. Sure. And all the first two films are just over 90 minutes. Alps does take a very deep, like, a good amount of time to get to what the. The kind of. Maybe the, you know, the conflict. The crux of the conflict is, which is basically the oldest daughter in Dr. Actress. She plays the nurse and she gets really. She gets latched on to this teenage tennis player who unfortunately. [00:42:03] Speaker B: Right. [00:42:03] Speaker A: It's in a car accident. [00:42:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:06] Speaker A: Because the nurse used to be a tennis player before she got into, like. She, like, broke a bone and had, like an injury that she couldn't get him back from. And so she ends up using again. Sounds very fucked up, but it is. But the way that the movie presents it is very lanthimos is that she wants to help the grieving tennis player's family when she passes by pretending to be the tennis player. And she gets understatement of the year. But gets very method. She loses herself. And also the conflict basically becomes she offers her services without going through the protocols. [00:42:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:48] Speaker A: And they're called Alps. [00:42:50] Speaker B: Yeah, they kind of explain their name is twofold one Alps. Because it doesn't reveal what they do. Yep, fair enough. And also because, like, as a symbol, the Alps, the mountain range are incomparable. Like, you can't replace or compare to the Alps. No other mountain range. I mean, according to their logic, no other mountain range compares. And you can't replace them, which is kind of, I guess, goes in line with the service they're providing that you can't replace. You know. [00:43:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:43:32] Speaker B: You can't replace a loved one. And you also can't replace this service they're providing because it's so unique. [00:43:38] Speaker A: Because weirdly enough. Yeah. The most unique part of that service, too, is that they. They recreate things that are very emotionless or very kind of mundane for the most part part, like once or twice a week with the clients, but try to find a way to get those appointments to get to a kind of notable conclusion where they recreate probably what led to the end of a marriage or the end of a relationship and like why it didn't work out. And almost as a way, as a bit of a catharsis to get them to the end and realize that that. [00:44:14] Speaker B: Person is no more like a post mortem version of Nathan Fielders the rehearsal. [00:44:20] Speaker A: Yes, it is. It's funny too because like I think this movie, you hear the premise and I literally, my brain went, it's so kind of wild to think this, but there is a, there is an alternate reality where a premise like this is a Vince Vaughn, Owen Wilson film. Like, it is like, it is a premise that is so outlandish. I could see an American studio making just the goofiest over the top version of it and then having that issue of like. Because a lot of comedies, especially 2000s companies now have this issue now in retrospect, where it's like, honestly, that's kind of fucked up. I can't believe they thought they could turn that into a movie and not have like, you know, thought about this. And the best part about Land the most his approach is that Lanthimos is doing the film where it's like, yeah, this is fucked up. That's the whole point. [00:45:04] Speaker B: Right. [00:45:05] Speaker A: But isn't it kind of fascinating though? Yeah, because it's ultimately about four people who are dealing with different versions of grief and just kind of like sadness in their lives. Using Alps as a way to helping other people. It has this energy of maybe that'll help me. And having this interesting dynamic of it being like the most disconnected from all of this is the, the leader who calls himself Mont Blanc. Mont Blanc, Yeah. He's the, he's the biggest paramedic. Yeah, the paramedic. He gives himself the biggest mountain and says, I will not discuss this. I get the biggest amount because I came up with the name the C. The coach is Matterhorn and then the medic is Rosa. Is it Rosa? Mount Rosa? [00:45:48] Speaker B: Is she? I couldn't remember. I, I. [00:45:51] Speaker A: They barely say her name. The gymnast doesn't happen. [00:45:53] Speaker B: The gymnast doesn't get a name. [00:45:54] Speaker A: Which is so up because she's just, it's like in, she's just involved as everybody else. [00:45:59] Speaker B: Yeah. It is interesting to the like that this isn't just like a business or like a collaboration where they're all kind of on equal footing. They're like clear hierarchy, power dynamics, like, you know, really, you know, toxic power dynamics going on within this group, especially between the coach and the gymnast. [00:46:24] Speaker A: Yeah, well, like what you said earlier, like Lanthimos likes to start off with these non. Almost like non Sequitur moments. [00:46:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:31] Speaker A: And this movie starts with the gymnast dancing to classical music and not feeling it emotionally. [00:46:37] Speaker B: Right. [00:46:38] Speaker A: And then basically says, like, I'm ready to do pop music. Why won't you let me do pop? And then I think the coach says, I will break every bone in your body if you don't trust me ever again. And then it just like, cuts to the title. It's like, jesus, fuck. Yeah, it's like that. So that's. And then you realize that they're in the group together. [00:46:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:46:56] Speaker A: That's wild. Yeah, it's. It's very much, I think, is that in that lanthimos way of discussing, like, almost the social. This wild social thing that I think is very common with anybody. Just like, there is a. You are not fully giving yourself in conversation as much as you might think you are in terms of. Just like, these people are finding different ways to, like, fake it till you make it. Almost in terms of faking, like, their sadness or faking a loss that they don't know how to comprehend, or just faking the fact that, like, you know, they are past. In their head, maybe past their prime, which I think is a big thing with the nurse, because she. She clearly wants to be a tennis player. She clearly wants to. She clearly misses doing it. And then unfortunately, you know, she's in her mid to late 30s. Like, she's. She can't be a teenage or, like, a tennis player in her 20s. [00:47:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:51] Speaker A: That just isn't possible for her. So, like. Like, living vicariously through a dead teenage tennis player is like, how she feels the freest, which is. So, again, it is up. But that is the point. [00:48:06] Speaker B: Right. [00:48:06] Speaker A: And it honestly is not. Again, thankfully, compared to Dog Tooth, it's not as horrifying or as kind of freaky and scary to a degree, because, like, yeah, no one is necessarily getting hurt. Everyone who's in this is pretty much voluntarily involved, both the people hiring them as well as the people pretending to be these dead relatives or dead friends. And, you know, I think the biggest flaw with the movie is that the premise itself is really fascinating and interesting. It has a. You can bring a lot of questions out of it, but I don't think the movie really elaborates or really wants to discuss a lot of it. [00:48:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:41] Speaker A: And doesn't really want to discuss the dynamic between the four of them and how, like. Because it has this energy where, like, clearly, lanthimos in conversations. It has this energy of, like, you can kind of tell how all of them got connected at one point where it's like the gymnast is involved because the coach. The coach maybe at one point probably was a coach besides Jim. So maybe he knows that through the old tennis player, medic or the nurse. And then the paramedic gets involved in that way. And then it's like you can kind of see the line that could lead to all four of these people getting to know each other. [00:49:13] Speaker B: Right. [00:49:13] Speaker A: Because besides that, literally, they don't ever really see each other in person other than like the paramedic in day to day life. And the paramedic is like, honestly, at certain points he's just kind of gone a lot of the movie. He just kind of pops in and out. [00:49:26] Speaker B: It's interesting that he's very present in the first couple scenes of the film. And like when they're discussing what the organization does and their name and everything. And then he's. Yeah. Kind of barely relevant to the rest of the movie. [00:49:41] Speaker A: Yeah, he establishes the premise of it without, like just looking at the camera and being like, this is what we do do. And then like, record, scratch, freeze frame, we're the Alps. And then like, he has a very. There's like a little intense moment where he basically is punishing the gymnast for not saying, I believe, speaking German correctly. [00:50:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:00] Speaker A: Because there's a German phrase that she can't say for like this old grandpa who just like, trying to remember his dead granddaughter. And so he like, makes her go upside down and, like, speak it very succinctly. And then like the next time you see him, they do the who am I? The celebrity impressions. Which leads to the running gag in the film that the gymnast, I mean, pretends to be Prince. And Prince at the time was not dead. [00:50:27] Speaker B: Right. [00:50:27] Speaker A: It was actually like, I think five or so years before Prince passed away. And like, people are just going like, oh, wait, Prince isn't dead. It's like, why did you think Prince was dead? He's not dead. And you know, and then after that, he pretty much is just like. It seems like the plot is like, oh, he's. He's aware of what's going on with the nurse. And it's like, why is he so. Why is he so suspicious of her of all things? And it's just like it kind of pops in. The biggest kind of, you know, violent moment has him involved, which is just like. You can already see a mile away what's about to happen. But what it still happens. It's like, God damn, like the sound design again, Lanthimos is violent. The use of violence. It's Very visceral. It's well mixed in a way that it doesn't feel like a wapow or a kick or a bam. It really just feels like it's just meat hitting meat or just like metal hitting meat, depending on, like, what objects are used. And, yeah, I just. It. I think it's a very solid film. It's. It's definitely a step down from Dogtooth, but I think the actors are very good in it and the premise itself does lead it, like, as an interesting watch. Will I ever watch it again? [00:51:40] Speaker B: Me? Probably not, but Alps is an interesting exercise in tone and that it's kind of. It's almost a case in which, you know, you have so effectively captured the tone of the story you are trying to convey that, you know, it's almost a detriment to the watchability of the film like this. The feeling of lifelessness is so pervasive throughout this film. Nobody is enthusiastic, really, about their life. Except the gymnast clearly wants to be a great gymnast. [00:52:16] Speaker A: Yeah, she's the youngest of the four. [00:52:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So she still has that spark of youth in her, but all the rest of them are just kind of like husks shuffling around. And like, there's. There's this sense that, you know, they might probably. They're probably doing this for higher service in a way, so that they can feel like they're living a life, you know, so that they can live the lives of these other people. But there's almost no emotionality to it. It's all very cold and stoic. More so even than Dogtooth. [00:52:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:51] Speaker B: And so I think that is where I think Dogtooth and the lobster kind of thrive in the. The sick comedy of it. And also, you know, just the absurdity. Alps kind of wallows in the mundanity of it and just how unenthusiastic these people are. [00:53:12] Speaker A: Also, like, Alps, I think, has the weakest, because I think with Lanthimos, too, there's, like, in terms of his directing with performers, there is this energy that. The way that he directs his, like, writes his characters as well as directs his performers, if they are supposed to be every single person in this film, or at least a lot of his films almost have this energy of, like, everyone is hyper emotional but doesn't want anyone else to know. They're very stoic. Yeah, they're very cold, like Andy said. But at the same time, that means when something gets heightened, that's when things really start. You start to see the actors, really. [00:53:47] Speaker B: Everybody's bottling it up. [00:53:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, it's like. It's like constantly looking at people who are, like, bawling and going, I'm not sad. Like, that's the whole. Like, a lot of the films are like. And then when, like, intense moments, it's like watching people who are just completely stoic, just, like, try not to scream at the top of their lungs. And, like, it leads into this interesting, you know, dynamic in the films where it's like, you are now more intensely engaged at its best with those performances because you're like, they are clearly on the verge of breaking, but also leads to some good comedy because sometimes shit will just happen out of nowhere. [00:54:22] Speaker B: Right? [00:54:23] Speaker A: And that almost has a hilarious. Like what? Like, you get almost a giggle out of it. You're like, what the fuck just happened? And it's like it has. And I think with both Dogtooth and the Lobster, you get a lot of great kind of moments for a lot of the ensembles to have those very hyper emotional but holding it back, very kind of mute, monotone voices that are ultimately, you know, giving away the fact that they're clearly constantly either scared or worried or pissed off at all times. While in Alps, it almost has like, the energy when Alps, that is happening. Like, when emotions are quote unquote heightened, you're almost kind of thinking, like, why. Why are these emotions heightened in this moment? Why are you so, like, you. You kind of knew this was possibly going to happen. Like, why did you think that? Like, why are you this sad about this? Why are you this mad about this? Like, I understand being these emotions to a degree, but, like, clearly these are supposed to affect you so much. But we don't get. We don't have a lot of context. [00:55:21] Speaker B: Right. [00:55:22] Speaker A: Well, as in Dogtooth almost feels like the. The advantage of God having very little context is that you are so engaged because you want any breadcrumb of context to add more to your list of, okay, maybe this is what's going on. [00:55:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:35] Speaker A: In Alps, it's almost like this energy of, like, if there is, like an inkling of it, it's like, ah. I don't know if it's like, that doesn't really do enough for me. To the point where, like, when the film gets like, it's been a while, it's what it's. But it's been like the first time in a while where I've gotten to, like, the final moments of a film and I'm like, this is like a three out of five. Like, I'm already writing the letterbox review as it's ending. And like, I'm still watching, but I'm also like, yeah, this is like, I think it's a good movie. I think it looks good in like, in a very sterile, gray way, which all three of these films can be very gray. [00:56:09] Speaker B: Right. [00:56:10] Speaker A: Stoic at times. I think Dog Tooth is probably the most colorful of the three of these movies. Yeah. But. And you know, Lanthimos is clearly working his execution at the forefront in terms of like, what makes the story work as well as it does is the coldness is like kind of the quote unquote emotionalist, like kind of disconnect. But ultimately I just don't find this film as interesting as Dr. Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, it was, it was. I'm glad to give it a watch. Like, I'm glad to see, like, you know, this is a good. It shows that this is a great show of Lanthimos not trying to do a dog tooth too. [00:56:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:52] Speaker A: The fact that he's more interested in being like, what is a cool idea for like an inverse kind of scenario and be like, yeah, let's just go for this. And you know, I appreciate the effort. Unfortunately, I don't like it as much as Doctooth, but yeah, it's still a good time. [00:57:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:08] Speaker A: But I will say the best of these three films, in my opinion, is definitely the first Lanthamos film I've ever watched. [00:57:15] Speaker B: It just, again, yeah, same for me. [00:57:16] Speaker A: It just. It's funny how that works because it's. It was not intentional. I literally went into this being like, I'm going into this trilogy. I was the most interested in Dogtooth just because of how much people talk about. [00:57:27] Speaker B: There's a lot of enthusiasm. Yeah. [00:57:29] Speaker A: They talk about that. There's a book in the Bible called the Book of Yorgos and Dogtooth is what really. It really is like the first few verses. Yeah. But the Lobster, in my opinion, is the film where it's like, okay, we. If this is not perfected Lanthimos in terms of tone, in terms of pacing, in terms of his comedy, we're on the cusp of that. [00:57:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's really like finding his stride. [00:57:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:57] Speaker B: Like finding that kind of perfect balance between his sick sense of humor and his keen observational understanding of human behavior. [00:58:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:58:09] Speaker B: And his interest in exploring that. And it kind of gets all of that in one go. [00:58:14] Speaker A: Absolutely. It also has his most star studded cast. [00:58:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:19] Speaker A: Retroactively. Because again, at the time that this movie comes out, most people would probably not know who Olivia Colman is out the gate unless you are a huge peep show fan or you just love Hot Fuzz? Sure. [00:58:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:32] Speaker A: At that time, I don't even think Fleabag was really a thing as much, at least in the States, because she's, you know, fleabag stepmom and those. And also, you know, let ends up coming back for a lanthimos project and winning a Oscar in the process. But it is, you have, you know, going from these first two films being very much ensembles of very talented Greek performers. [00:58:55] Speaker B: Right. [00:58:56] Speaker A: Actually, one of them, I believe. I believe the gymnast is French and is actually Yorgos's wife. [00:59:01] Speaker B: Oh, okay. [00:59:02] Speaker A: The, the, the gymnast in the second film. [00:59:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:04] Speaker A: Is Yogis's wife. She's. She is the, the maid that, you know, rubs onto Colin Farrell and just calling for. [00:59:14] Speaker B: That's honestly, I wrote, I wrote that quote down when she's like basically edging him, like dry hump edging him, he just says, that's awful. [00:59:24] Speaker A: Just awful, just awful. And in, I believe 2013, 2014, the film goes into production with a cast that is filled with John C. Reilly, Olivia Colman, Leah Seydoux, Ben Whishaw, Rachel Weis. Well, here's the thing. Originally the two leads were supposed to be Jason Clark and Elizabeth Olsen. [00:59:49] Speaker B: Okay. [00:59:50] Speaker A: And what happened was, is that Jason Clark was at the time, had scheduling conflicts with Everest, while Elizabeth Olsen makes, I would say, truly a fork in the road choice. She either would have done the lobster, but instead did Age of Ultron. She was already attached to that movie and had to either commit to that. [01:00:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:11] Speaker A: Or do lobster. And apparently she did like an op ed a year or two back and talked about how she has thought about how her career would have been so different. [01:00:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:19] Speaker A: If she got it. But instead, since these two actors couldn't do it because of scheduling conflicts, we get, I would argue, even better choices in terms of what it ends up being, which is Colin Farrell and like Andy said, Rachel Weiss. [01:00:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:00:33] Speaker A: We have talked about on the podcast in terms of the Mummy trilogy, which is probably the last time I had seen her in a film in my head. Until this movie. She. She had been working in between for sure. But like, in terms of like when she pops up in this movie, it's like, shit, I'm glad you. I don't think I've seen you in forever, honestly. [01:00:53] Speaker B: Weirdly enough, and maybe this is dismissive of her career, but I kind of feel that way. Every time I see her in a movie, I'm like, oh, shit. [01:01:01] Speaker A: Yeah, she is. [01:01:02] Speaker B: You're still all over the place. [01:01:03] Speaker A: She's she is one of those, she's now become an actress that like when she pops up even in a film where it's like, why are you here? It's just like, I'm so glad you're here though. Like, it's like Black Widow. Black Widow. I think she, when she shows up in Black Widow, like her performance is so much different than everybody else's. I'm like, what you're putting into this is kind of wild. [01:01:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:22] Speaker A: But I'm glad you're here. But yeah, she's, she is the, the, I guess the quote unquote love interest. She is known as a short sighted woman. She's never given a name. Because this film is definitely the most engaging world wise because it's a dystopian future. It was shot in Dublin, I believe. [01:01:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:47] Speaker A: County Kerry. But like it's not said it's there, but it is a dystopian future where is meant. You have to be in a couple, you have to be married and in love and if you're not, you get sent to a type of hotel. [01:02:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:04] Speaker A: You have to find a new love. [01:02:05] Speaker B: Yeah. In a sense they're kind of rehabilitation centers, but they're also death camps. Yeah. [01:02:12] Speaker A: Because if you can't find someone to love in 45 days, they. They turn you into your animal of choice. [01:02:19] Speaker B: Right. [01:02:19] Speaker A: Which Colin Farrell's characters, animal of choice is of course the lobster. [01:02:24] Speaker B: Right. [01:02:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Colin Farrell's character, David, I think David. Yeah. [01:02:30] Speaker B: He. [01:02:31] Speaker A: He gets divorced by his wife because his wife is cheating on him. His first question is, does he wear glasses or does he have contact lenses? [01:02:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:40] Speaker A: Because that's the most Lanthamos shit you can think of. It's like a response to that. [01:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:44] Speaker A: Gets sent to this hotel and you know, fascinating enough and I think again, it shows just how just tight and how engaged Lanthimos is with the narrative. The first hour is all about the hotel. [01:03:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:00] Speaker A: The next 30 minutes is about a group of people who are against society's, you know, choice of like push of couples. They call themselves, unsurprisingly, the loners. [01:03:12] Speaker B: Right. [01:03:13] Speaker A: And then like the final 30 minutes is kind of this revelation that while the first hour, Colin Farrell's character literally has just been shooting blanks in terms of like any kind of people who have been interested in him. [01:03:27] Speaker B: Right. [01:03:28] Speaker A: Or even in his case, finds somebody but is clearly just faking it to make it right. He hilariously finds a love interest in the loners. But it is a group that says if you have any kind of physical. [01:03:43] Speaker B: Contact, they Are anti intimacy, we will punish you. Yeah. [01:03:47] Speaker A: Which is again, hilarious how it is a regime that is trying to fight against the authoritative. [01:03:52] Speaker B: Like they've swung so deep into their resistance. Yeah. That they just become the opposite thing. [01:04:00] Speaker A: It's Lea Sedoe runs the Loners. [01:04:03] Speaker B: She. She's great. [01:04:04] Speaker A: She always has one of those faces where it's like you're up to something. She handles that so well. She just. And usually they give her characters who are clearly up to something. Yeah. [01:04:13] Speaker B: She's scheming under the. [01:04:17] Speaker A: But the movie is just. It's again, very similar to these two films where it's very cold, it's very disconnected emotionally for a lot of the conversations and whatnot. It's very funny. [01:04:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think that is like the most obvious, like, distinguishing factor is just how obviously this movie is funny. It's also like, yes, Dogtooth has like absurdist comedy moments in it, but this feels like full on black comedy. [01:04:51] Speaker A: Like, it's also Lanthimos's first English. Full blown English. English language film. Which, like. Because there's. There's a little bit of English in Alps, because one of the. One of the people that they are working for is a, I believe a Canadian or like was dating a Canadian, so they spoke English. [01:05:08] Speaker B: Right. [01:05:09] Speaker A: It's the lamp shop owner. He's like, you have the diabetes, you can't go to that. That's like those scenes. And. Yeah, because this is like a, I believe, an Irish, Greek, French. Like it's a multitude of different countries, kind of like production wise. [01:05:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:28] Speaker A: Funding it. And it is, it is. It is so fascinating how I think, no surprise that the first, you know, English speaking film that Lanthimos does, his writing just has a snappy nature to it that feels like a dry British comedy at times. Where I think a lot of people probably thought initially, is this a dry British comedy? Until they were like, oh, no, this is a Greek director. Yeah. [01:05:53] Speaker B: I mean, he. The humor in this film, I think has a lot in common with like Martin McDonough. [01:05:59] Speaker A: Yes. [01:06:00] Speaker B: It doesn't sound like him. They have distinct voices. But. And part of that is I think the Colin Farrell of it all. But. But, you know, even in Lanthimos later films that have major comedic angles, it's a similar sort of like super deadpan, super bleak comedy. It's also that Colin Farrell happens to be perfect for. [01:06:25] Speaker A: Yeah. He's. Oh, my God. [01:06:26] Speaker B: Which, I mean, you mentioning Jason Clark. I love Jason Clark. Hard to imagine him as David. [01:06:33] Speaker A: He does. Because. [01:06:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:06:34] Speaker A: Because Clark has one of Those careers where it's like it hilariously, because he is in a film with Jai Courtney, with Terminator Jones, it feels like some very similar. Two Australian actors or like companies just didn't know what to use them for. And yet they're both extremely talented in very specific ways, yet they kept putting. [01:06:54] Speaker B: Them as leads in action. [01:06:57] Speaker A: Protagonist man, antagonist man, scary man. [01:07:01] Speaker B: How do we squeeze the most juice out of this new international star? [01:07:04] Speaker A: Yeah, because like, Jason Clark, for a lot of people out there, he's in Great Gatsby. He's in, like I said, Terminator Genesis. I'm trying to think like he was. [01:07:14] Speaker B: In dawn of the Planet of the Ape. [01:07:15] Speaker A: He's great. And dawn of the Planet of the Apes. That's probably one of the only times an American film had a way to kind of use him in an interesting. And again, to be fair, he had. All he had to follow up was James Franco the film prior. So it's not really much. [01:07:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:07:29] Speaker A: He built upon that a lot. [01:07:31] Speaker B: Well, and don a lot of his stuff since then, like, kind of since the. The wave of him sort of being pushed as new leading man. The stuff he's done since then has been more character actor stuff, more smaller parts, which. And he's great in most of those. [01:07:46] Speaker A: If you. If you remember a scene, it's a very long film, so it's not surprised if you might not remember, but it was very iconic when it first happened. If you remember a scene in Oppenheimer where a very scary man is yelling at Oppenheimer and like, Oppenheimer is having basically bomb flashbacks while this man is yelling at him. That man is Jason Clark. [01:08:06] Speaker B: Right. [01:08:06] Speaker A: He's fant. When he shows up in Oppenheimer again, don't really have a lot of films that I think of off time my head where I'm like, I love his performance in this because I feel like he's very underutilized in most American films. But, man, when he shows up in Oppenheimer, I'm like, let's fucking go. He's perfect for this. [01:08:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:24] Speaker A: And, yeah, I think there is a version of it where, like, I think maybe more of a. More of his, like, natural voice and maybe more of a. Like a dryness that he doesn't get to do a lot of. Maybe kind of popped out of this. [01:08:36] Speaker B: Sure. [01:08:37] Speaker A: But with Colin Farrell, it does have that interesting dynamic of being like, this is a man that at one point dated Britney Spears in the early 2000s. This guy was a fucking heartthrob for so long. Absolute schlub and he just looks like a shrimp. [01:08:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:52] Speaker A: And he does it so well. And it's like. It's one of those moments where you're like, oh, that's right. Colin Farrell is not only just an attractive man, he's a phenomenal actor. [01:09:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:01] Speaker A: And he literally can do anything if you give him the right kind of lean into something. And he's just. Yeah. Like, there's the. Like, what we said earlier when he's getting edged by the maid and he's like, that's horrible. Awful. It's like, just that line alone. Like, he's so scared to do it because he knows it's gonna work so well, and then he knows it's not gonna go anywhere. [01:09:23] Speaker B: Cruel form of punishment that he's not getting, actually climax. [01:09:26] Speaker A: It's like. Yeah. When he's, like. When he's pretending to be a big piece of shit so he could, like, be impressed. [01:09:34] Speaker B: The heartless woman who is the nurse. [01:09:36] Speaker A: From Alps and the oldest daughter and Dog tooth. Yeah. And he's just like, kicks the little girl, like, you'll thank me later. Kicks her in the shins or the driest. Like, he's just. Every time you let him, like, just really. Like, just really work. He just does such a good job of making a likable protagonist that is still very awkward, very dry, and is constantly pushing this thing of, like, you don't want this to happen to him because, like, he's not a bad guy. But at the same time, you're not surprised how he can't find anyone in, like, two days. Yeah, he's just, like, in this weird. Because it's also this interesting dynamic of, like, when you meet people at the hotel that are also at the hotel with him. It's like people that have just lost their spouses, like, days before. And I've just been like, you know, divorces as well, and they can't even grieve a relationship before they are ultimately have to go find another one. [01:10:35] Speaker B: Right. [01:10:36] Speaker A: Olivia Colman is wonderful because her whole thing is she's, like, the one of the hotel owners, and she has, like. It was a great line in the trailer, and it's a great line in the movie, which is basically, if you guys can't solve your own arguments, we will give you children. Usually that helps. [01:10:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:51] Speaker A: Like, it's like. There's just, like, little lines like that where she just has, like, this. This perky kind of, like, very. She's very social. She's very loving in person, but clearly is, like, when she's needs to be mean. Like when John C. Riley masturbates and they have to put his hand in a toaster. She has like an intensity to her. [01:11:10] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. That's very nice, that kind of control oriented chipperness. Yeah, I mean, it's. Yeah, yeah, she's. She's so good in this. [01:11:20] Speaker A: And again, John C. Reilly. Seeing John C. Reilly in this movie is just like, God, that's right. You. Every time I see John C. Reilly now, I have to go through his different phases because he's has so many different phases in. [01:11:32] Speaker B: Yeah, he's been acting for a lot longer than like growing up. I just, you knew him as, you know, he fucking show up in Talladega Nights and shit like that. He was a dramatic actor, but yeah, before he became super known for comedies, he was doing small parts in really serious films. [01:11:51] Speaker A: Boogie Nights. He was a PTA guy. [01:11:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:54] Speaker A: That's crazy because basically, like his PTA's first three films have. John C. Reilly is like a prominent part of it. Like, it's like to go from like the rise of PTA to just be like intelligent nights and be like, oh, you're just a McKay guy now, right? And just like get to this point where it's like this and then he'll like go do it and then he'll. [01:12:13] Speaker B: Do like, he gets the kind of Hollywood treatment of like, oh, you've done comedies for so long to earn your keep. Now you get to have an elevated career in serious movies. And it's like, well, no, he's been doing this for 20 years. [01:12:26] Speaker A: And also in between, like, he did fucking Chicago, which is an Oscar winning film and he's actually. I love his musical number and Chicago. He's good at Chicago. He is, he's a director, he's an actor that goes all over the place. And so like, I am not, I am not kidding. When I said, like when I saw the first trailers for this one, when I saw John C. Reilly and I went, this is interesting. I kind of want to see what a Colin Farrell, John C. Reilly. [01:12:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:53] Speaker A: What Wikipedia calls a dark absurdist comedy. Which is pretty much what it is. It is, it is very silly. It goes, it is. Of all three of these films, it amps up the absurdity to a level that is like, yeah, this is just nothing about this. Just. I can't not giggle when I think about how silly it is that, like, no one questions. There's not even a thought in anyone's mind. Even the rebellion that they, like people are like, not being turned into animals. Everyone fully believes that there is. You know, they talk about. There's one scene where they talk about how they do it, and it's the most insane description of what. How they could have be turned into animals. [01:13:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:37] Speaker A: That I've ever heard before. Because, like, you think it's like. I'm all like. It's maybe it's like a mind meld or switch with, like, an animal. [01:13:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:44] Speaker A: I know. [01:13:45] Speaker B: They talk about taking the organs out. [01:13:47] Speaker A: Yeah. They basically, like, slice you like ham. [01:13:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:50] Speaker A: Like pull out your organs and then you just. Like you're just a chicken then. [01:13:54] Speaker B: Yeah. They never really say exactly how the chicken becomes part of it. [01:13:58] Speaker A: They don't. [01:13:59] Speaker B: Then it's, you know, and then it's kind of obviated later how nonsense the process is when he takes the heartless woman and just throws her in the room, expecting that, like, oh, if I put her in there, she'll be turned into this just, like, magically. Even though we were just talking about the process a minute ago. And it's like, clearly it's a surgical procedure. [01:14:22] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's also like. Because. Yeah. Because the only time we really see, technically see the process of a transformation is that there's a woman in the group of, like, people that come in with Colin Farrell. It's a woman who bleeds. Her nose. Bleeds a lot. She's chronic nose, which Ben Whishaw, desperate to not become whatever animal he doesn't want to become. [01:14:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:47] Speaker A: Just bashes his head into walls, in. [01:14:49] Speaker B: Nightstands so that he has chronicles, quote unquote, crying. [01:14:55] Speaker A: Her best friend cannot find somebody, so she has to be turned into an animal. And it literally just goes from there. Talking to her about her final day, she says, I would like to watch Stand By Me by River Phoenix. Yeah. And then hard cut to clearly the next day with her friend petting a pony. Pony with blonde hair, a long blonde. [01:15:19] Speaker B: Mane, just like her human form, which. [01:15:21] Speaker A: I believe that horse shows up again because hilariously enough, next to the hotel. [01:15:26] Speaker B: There'S a forest which is where all the loners go. [01:15:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Where the loners just don't leave. They just stay in the forest. [01:15:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I guess the idea of the process. I guess one question I would have is so sometimes it seems like people, okay, they reach their time limit at the hotel, they're just turned into animals. Other people are sent out into the woods and then hunted down by the guests at the hotel. I thought they tranquilized and then turned. [01:15:59] Speaker A: Into animals, I guess. [01:16:01] Speaker B: Or maybe The. The horse girl was hunted down and we just didn't see that part. Maybe everybody goes out in the woods when they run out of time. [01:16:09] Speaker A: Maybe. I don't know. Like, yeah, it does. They don't really. That part of it. I always just assume those people were just like, they didn't want to get turned, so they just ran away. Like Colin Farrell at some point. And Colin Farrell was just one of the only lucky people to not get like, yeah, the siren ran when he does. But like, the forest is so funny because one the loners never leave it. Like, they just, they just like live in the forest which is so close to the hotel. [01:16:32] Speaker B: And they constantly, if anything was really stopping you from going to a forest. [01:16:37] Speaker A: That'S like miles away from it. And also since it's the forest that's closest to the hotel, they're just scenes where they're in a normal forest and then there's just like a peacock in the background. [01:16:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Or a camel. The camel was all the people who got turned into animals and that was. [01:16:53] Speaker A: Yeah, that just fuzzy ass camel coming out of nowhere. Yeah. Just a shaggy gamble. And I'm like, what the. [01:16:59] Speaker B: It's like. And it's like struggling to walk up a mud hill because it's out of its element. [01:17:06] Speaker A: And it's like they don't even like talk about even kind of registering that the animals that they are foraging and hunting could have just been people there at the hotel. It's like, nah, I just, we need rabbits. And it, I mean, from the unnecessary yet hilarious narration to the cast all having these little quirks to them that are just like, hilariously, the film is constantly making, you know, joking about or like, at least it's very serious in the film itself. But it uses more as like a kind of a comedic element of how like the hotel is pushing how everyone has a specific quirk. Like John C. Reilly has a lisp. [01:17:51] Speaker B: They ask everybody, what is your defining trait? [01:17:54] Speaker A: And hilariously enough, they do. You do not see what they ask what Colin Farrell's specific trait is. So it's even funnier that it almost implies the reason why I can't find anybody else is because no one else is as normal as he is, maybe, or has no defect or something like that. And like, hilariously, when they get out of that system, they, like, Colin Farrell basically falls in love with vice because they follow that system inherently when they realize they're both short sighted. [01:18:25] Speaker B: Right. [01:18:26] Speaker A: And it's the only thing that gets them. Which leads to just a wild finale where the first time you see the movie, you're basically like, wait a minute, we're not gonna end there, are we? And then now when you rewatch it, when I rewatched it, I was like, fuck, yeah. [01:18:42] Speaker B: Yeah, we're just. [01:18:43] Speaker A: This is where, this is where got it. Yeah. Again, cuz it very much like we talked about with Dogtooth. Once you watch Dogtooth, you almost like you can see the sensibilities that are now being like built upon and evolved and even just like kind of maybe thrown back at times where like the ending of the lobster hilariously kind of goes back to how the ending of Dogtooth feels where this, there's, there's this eeriness that Lanthimos is really playing with. You know, there could be a little bit of dark comedy built into both the finales in terms of like, maybe this person was in over their head and it kind of went in a bad sense. Like in Dog 2 Cents, maybe the oldest daughter didn't realize that she can't open the, she can't open the trunk from the inside. [01:19:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:30] Speaker A: So will she just be in the trunk for the rest of this time? And the lobster uses that in a way where it's like the end being Colin Farrell just not being able to connect with Rachel Weisz because she's not short shouted anymore. She's blind. She gets blinded because Lee is ado punishes her for falling in love by blinding her. [01:19:50] Speaker B: And so then it's like he's like desperate to have some thing in common with her because they're, they, they were both short sighted and that was their thing in common, their defining trait. [01:20:00] Speaker A: And nothing. I didn't even pick up on this the first time I watched the movie. But with this rewatch watching the fact that like she's very aware of what he's doing and is 100% supportive of him. Like gouging his eyes. [01:20:12] Speaker B: Right. [01:20:12] Speaker A: Blind. [01:20:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:20:13] Speaker A: He's like, I will be just a minute. [01:20:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:20:16] Speaker A: And I will say, even with how visceral and violent this film is, as well as the other two films, it is kind of. It shows just how selective and how, you know, in tune Lathamos is with his own films for like the most violent thing he could have done in any of these movies is have Colin Farrell gouge his eyes out on screen. But the fact that he doesn't is so good. It's fantastic because it leads to interpretation. [01:20:45] Speaker B: Like, could he do it? [01:20:47] Speaker A: Could he do it? Does he do it? Does he just like go out the back door? Because there's like there's an implication the bathroom is next to, like, an emergency exit and could have gone out the back. [01:20:57] Speaker B: The way the last shot is framed, it's almost like begging for you to expect to see him in the window, outside the window, leaving. [01:21:06] Speaker A: And it's just like, you know, there's, you know, there's two trucks driving by each other. There's a couple walking on the street. Rachel Weiss just sitting there blind, waiting to see if something's gonna happen. And, yeah, it just like. L. Most just really hits the nail on the head with the lobster in a way that, like, as much as I enjoyed Dog Tooth and, you know, still liked Alps in a lot of ways, like, it just really nails it with this one. And it makes it no surprise that this is the movie that, like, while he didn't win an Oscar for this one, he got another Oscar nomination for, I believe, original screenplay. [01:21:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:21:40] Speaker A: And that led to, I think, you know, people having eyes on this movie led to him working with Colin again in Sacred Deer and then ultimately working with Vice again in the Favorite. [01:21:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:21:51] Speaker A: And. And also bringing in actors, like, films that you haven't seen, like, because I think isn't Alicia Silverstone in fucking Killing the Sacred Deer. She's the blonde. I think she's very Keoghan. [01:22:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:22:04] Speaker A: And so it's like he's like, now he's like, doing things where it's like Lanthimos is now pulling people. They're like, why is this person. [01:22:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Suddenly everybody wants to work with him. [01:22:12] Speaker A: And then like, yeah, you. Then you get to the favorite, where I would say is like. Is now like the start of a new era for him. [01:22:19] Speaker B: Right. [01:22:19] Speaker A: It's like, it's like taking a lot. [01:22:21] Speaker B: Of the Academy darling, acclaimed filmmaker. Yeah. [01:22:24] Speaker A: And taking the dryness. It's like watching these. Watching a man who has, like, written the majority of, you know, the films he's worked on, and then now taking very flamboyant, very elegant, very cheeky script, and then adding his own dryness into the narrative, into just the. The cinematography, the execution of everything, and ultimately becoming, which I would say is my favorite of his films, which is the favorite I really enjoy. I mean, I love the favorite. That was. That was such a phenomenal film and is, I think, is the. It's, I would probably say, is his most crowd pleasing film. And even that movie has some sadness tinged into it and darkness there. [01:23:08] Speaker B: And. [01:23:09] Speaker A: Because if anything, the thing you got to respect with Lanthimos, as of right now, with his career, maybe Begonia just. He just Sells out. He's not the same anymore. I can't even say that with a straight face. [01:23:21] Speaker B: Yeah, he's got. He's using chapel roan music in his trailers. And honestly, what a hack. [01:23:25] Speaker A: Honest to God, I fucking love how it's used in that trailer. It was shocking. For the first time in a while, it. [01:23:32] Speaker B: That song is actually gonna be in the movie. [01:23:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:34] Speaker B: Because Emma Stone is singing it in. [01:23:36] Speaker A: One of the scenes, which again, Emma's like. It also is like watching the favorite and watching Emma Stone in it and just be like, well, okay. I guess for some reason this Greek man who'd made the lobster and Emma Stone is just really kicking it off in terms of collaboration to the point we might be talking about them again in maybe a year or so if she wins another Oscar. [01:23:59] Speaker B: Well, she. I mean, she's really in her, like, fucking weirdo era, you know, between working with Nathan Fielder. Yeah. Norgos Lanthimos. Like, she's just. Yeah, yeah. She's doing weird shit. [01:24:12] Speaker A: And I love weird shit. I think. Yeah, she. I think at one point she was gonna do something with Ari Asteroid. Like it was. [01:24:19] Speaker B: Well, to Eddington. [01:24:21] Speaker A: Well, yes, but I was thinking of something else. [01:24:22] Speaker B: Oh. [01:24:23] Speaker A: But, yeah, it is editington a film that is only going to age a little too well. How long things are gonna go. [01:24:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:24:33] Speaker A: Now I just want to now quote Joaquin Phoenix for that movie. Now that you put that back in my head. I can't believe we saw that movie this year. [01:24:40] Speaker B: Yeah, this year. [01:24:42] Speaker A: This year has flown by so much. But also the type of films that have just been, you know, getting a lot of buzz or like directors we haven't seen in a little while just kind of pop back up. It's such an ebb and flow and wild. The different trajectories. [01:24:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:24:56] Speaker A: Like getting. Like getting a vampire, Southern vampire, Michael B. Jordan, Ryan Coogler film to getting now, like, fucking Paul Thomas Anderson's, like, revolution film. [01:25:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:25:11] Speaker A: With the biggest goober role I think Leonard DiCaprio has ever done, the BU. And he's. He's so good as a bumbler. [01:25:19] Speaker B: Like, it's like a bumbling dad just trying to do the best thing he can for his daughter. [01:25:24] Speaker A: I mean, it really is like. It's so. I'm like, I'm glad that in this kind of space. And we will say as we're recording this, neither one of us have seen. As Andy's puts bug on you. [01:25:34] Speaker B: Bug on you. [01:25:34] Speaker A: We haven't seen it yet, but we've. We are very well aware. [01:25:37] Speaker B: I'm ready to get some bugs on me. [01:25:39] Speaker A: I am. Because again, there's someone in kinds of kindness that we see work with Lanthimos now where I. I think we both just, like, went, like, into the ready position where we're like, Jesse Plemons. [01:25:49] Speaker B: Yeah. And Lanthimos sign me and fuck up. [01:25:53] Speaker A: And. Yes. And he looks. I can't fucking. [01:25:55] Speaker B: He looks so ratty. And it is. [01:25:58] Speaker A: I love. You know, look at that man. Being happily married to Kirsten Dunst can show up in one film and just like last year and just absolutely nail it. [01:26:07] Speaker B: Yeah. In Civil War, always just nasty it up. [01:26:11] Speaker A: He can be nasty as can be. I'm glad we're at a point now where people and I did say this at times when he was. Was on the show, but, like, have now gone from meth. Damon and like, Breaking Bad now being like, no, we put respect on the name of Jesse Plemons. That man is so good at what he does. And it's been. It's just great that in, like, in this current run of, like, just very fascinating auteur work that Lanthimos is just there. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that, you know, Dogtooth was pretty prominent with like. Like, critics were like, yeah, this. There's something here. And then from that point forward, we get to the point where we get to the lobster, and it's like, okay, either you didn't like him in Dog Tooth, and now you're like, okay, maybe he can make something that I like, or you've liked him since Dogtooth and you're constantly just being like, I don't want to be a smoke piece of shit, but I've liked him since Dr. [01:27:06] Speaker B: I told you. [01:27:07] Speaker A: I told you. And, like, he's just. He's killing it right now. And I'm excited to see where his career goes. I'm excited to see how many more people I couldn't think would be perfect for a Lanthimos film to pop up. Like, Willem Dafoe doesn't count. That's cheating. Willem Dafoe works with everybody. Right, Defoe. It's like. Like, it's like putting Samuel Jackson at Lanthamos film. Like, Samuel Jackson. He's pretty much worked with everybody at this point. Like, it's just. [01:27:33] Speaker B: Now I want to see it. [01:27:34] Speaker A: I would love to see it. Finally get Jason Clark into it. Let's get Jason Clarke finally in a Lanthamos film that he can. [01:27:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:27:42] Speaker A: Elizabeth Olsen. Now that with. With the lobster. That does make sense. [01:27:46] Speaker B: She would. I mean, she'd be a good fan. Yeah, she's done enough weird shit. [01:27:51] Speaker A: Did you hear what she said about Marvel Zombies? No, we haven't, because neither one of us have watched that. But apparently people have been talking about his, like, you know, zombie wand or whatever's in that show. And I think she just like. Because again, she's been very, very blunt about, like, not shitting on Marvel but just being like. No, like, I. I literally, like, recorded all that shit years ago. [01:28:12] Speaker B: Right. [01:28:13] Speaker A: I mean, I don't know what you're talking about technically, because I've not seen the final product and I don't remember. [01:28:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:28:19] Speaker A: And I think that's so fascinating and I think it's so funny, the thing that, like. Yeah, we're now at a point where Elizabeth Olsen, you know, is very grateful of the MCU because, you know, she's able to go do smaller projects and has done smaller projects and do more producing stuff as well as ACT and whatnot. And then ultimately is now at a point where she's just like, I could have been the lobster that would have been wild would have changed everything. It would have changed her trajectory in such a way. But, yeah, that's. That's the rise of Lanthimos. It is. [01:28:53] Speaker B: It is. [01:28:53] Speaker A: He is. He is a, I think, a fantastic, very unique director that I just. I'm very curious every single time he is announced that he's got something new. I swear, the last, like, with. With the favorite. With Kinds of Kindness and Poor Things and even with Begonia Bugonia. My apologies. It's like all those films have like a one to two sentence description of what those films are. And I always read them. And then when I watch the trailer, it's like, I've never heard of this thing, but like, it's like I completely forget the movie. [01:29:29] Speaker B: His movies always feel like, not just to sound contrived, but like so much more than what the premise is. [01:29:36] Speaker A: Yes. [01:29:36] Speaker B: Or like the premise is almost just like a smokescreen. [01:29:40] Speaker A: Yes. That's a good way to put it. [01:29:42] Speaker B: Radically different and weird. [01:29:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:29:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:29:46] Speaker A: My gosh. Bill Burr in a fucking Lanthamos film. It's. Again, he's. He has this energy where it's just like. I feel like. [01:29:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I think he. He is a director who could kind of Mark Maron make something interesting out of like anybody you throw. [01:30:03] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:30:04] Speaker B: You know, I mean, I'm not asking for like LeBron James to be in the Lanthimos film, but like, you know, he could do something weird with that. And I think LeBron James would be, you know, Oscar worthy performance. But it would be interesting now with. [01:30:21] Speaker A: Especially with the whole Fincher doing a sequel to a Tarantino film. Now I'm just like, what is that? What is a weird Lanthimos sequel? Like a sequel that Lanthimos could do? Or like a sequel to Poor Things. [01:30:33] Speaker B: Too, directed by, like, Arrival to. [01:30:38] Speaker A: Oh, God, it's back. Or. [01:30:42] Speaker B: Or like, here's an interesting. Lanthimo's doing a Lars von Trier sequel. [01:30:48] Speaker A: Gosh. I mean, he. There is a connection. Apparently. He did a short with Matt Dillon, I think, sometime in the late 2010s, I think, after the Lobster. [01:30:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:57] Speaker A: And Matt Dillon did. Was. Was the last one that True. Did the House that Jack Built. [01:31:04] Speaker B: Was that his last films? [01:31:06] Speaker A: I've not. We have not done Trier on the podcast. We definitely could, but it just would. It would be a lot. [01:31:15] Speaker B: We do have a trilogy. We do have a trilogy in the pocket. [01:31:22] Speaker A: We do. Yes, we do. We do. [01:31:25] Speaker B: Might be a minute. [01:31:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Depends on the mood at the time when we talk about if we want to do it or not. But, yeah, I would. I would recommend watching all three of these movies. I would say Alps is my least favorite. The Lobster's the best. [01:31:39] Speaker B: And Dogtooth was a nice surprise or gem. [01:31:44] Speaker A: Really is. Yeah, I can. It's definitely one of those films where, like, I didn't have a full Danny DeVito, I get it now moment, but I had like a. I had like a pseudo one. Like a semi. A semi devito, like, oh, fuck, now I understand why kinds of kindness is like this. [01:32:02] Speaker B: Right? [01:32:03] Speaker A: Like, literally, it's. It was one of those, like, highly recommend kinds of kindness if you haven't watched it. And so. But this is like, the best gag in that movie is the most thrown out of the way, crazy thing involving a dog in the darkest position possible. And I remember Austin and I fucking losing it in a theater that wasn't even a quarter full. I think we were the biggest group. [01:32:30] Speaker B: That showed up for sure. [01:32:33] Speaker A: He. Yeah, it is. It is something where it's like, if you've been wanting to jump into Lanthimos, the easiest thing I could tell you is to watch the favorite first and then do this trilogy. But if you're just like, if you're ready for the. If you're ready for the grind, if you're ready to really get in from the ground up and really see what Lanthimos has been doing for, like, nearly the last two decades, just go with Dogtooth and go forward. Like, you really get to see an evolution of a Director who is very unique and if anything, is very stubborn in terms of how he approaches, you know, his projects and seems. I mean, seems like a chill dude. He's. It's. I. I was. It's one of those things where it's like. I think some people would be like, is this guy must be a real fucked up piece of. Because, like. Yeah, because people, like, when you watch, like, horror. Horror films, you're like, oh, horror directors must be like absolute weirdos. [01:33:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:33:24] Speaker A: And then you see them in their life and it's like, that guy's wearing, like a pocket protector. Like, settle down. It's just it. It hits people in different ways. And with Lanthimos, I think he's very much found in, like, an itch that is very rarely scratched in a lot of films that have pretty prominent actors and actresses and shows from Lobster onward that, you know, you can throw Emma Stone in a film, but you're not just throwing her in. She is on board 100%. And, yeah, it's. You know, it felt like an interesting change of pace after our Twilight of Kurosawa. And we thought it'd be perfect just to kind of like, you'll dip our toes into Lanthimos in honor of Begonia. But now we're gonna. It's about to introduce our final trilogy of November. Another one of my choices. [01:34:13] Speaker B: Yes. Another Logan Curate. [01:34:15] Speaker A: Another curation. A curation that I would say when I came up with it, I will be completely transparent. It has everything to do with the release of Wicked. Is it for good? [01:34:28] Speaker B: For good. [01:34:28] Speaker A: For good. [01:34:30] Speaker B: Part two, basically. [01:34:31] Speaker A: Part two, yes. Because, you know, last year when Wicked came out and it became a fucking massive hit in a way that I don't think any of us were really expecting. I know the. The show, the musical is popular and is iconic. Yeah. [01:34:45] Speaker B: It was gonna be successful no matter what. [01:34:47] Speaker A: Yeah. A film adaptation of a musical that's been around for two decades. [01:34:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:51] Speaker A: Hitting the way that it has. [01:34:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:34:53] Speaker A: Felt very shocking in a good way. Yeah. And so I thought, you know, what is an interesting kind of curation tied to Wicked and maybe the world of Oz that while we've dipped our toe a little bit in it when we talked about Oz the great and Powerful for Raimi, it is fascinating how many more wizard of Oz films there are out there that are basically doing or trying to be evoke the original, but also not because they don't want to get copyright claimed, they don't want to do something different, but also basically make a sequel without the rights in that Sequel. So I curated basically three different oddities about, you know, the world of Oz that are basically trying to capitalize on the classic film in vastly different ways. [01:35:51] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:35:52] Speaker A: And those are an anime from 1982. Just call the wizard of Oz. The second film is probably the most well known of the three, which is the. The absolute nightmare terror that is Disney's interpretation of an Oz sequel, which is 1985's Return to Oz. And then nearly 30 years later, we have a 2013, I believe, CG animated, probably Star studded, quote unquote, for the time, whatever budget it had. Sequel called Legends of Oz. Dorothy's Return. [01:36:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:36:34] Speaker A: Which I like to call the odd Oz trilogy. [01:36:40] Speaker B: Yes, sir. [01:36:41] Speaker A: When I put this on the table to Andy early this year, when we were talking about what to do this year, I had a strange feeling that this could be a trilogy, that he could be texting me late hours of the night, being like, why have you done this to me? I've. I haven't told him this yet, but I am putting on the podcast. I'm definitely willing to watch as many of these films as he needs me to watch with him in case he doesn't need to feel crazy that he's watching these by himself, but because it's an interesting thing because, like, there's this energy around the original wizard of Oz that feels like you can't. You can never, ever do anything that really captures what that original film does. And a lot of people and a lot of studios seem to agree with that. But that doesn't stop people from basically making unofficial sequels to the Julie Garland. [01:37:32] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:37:33] Speaker A: In ways like, you know, and finding ways around, you know, not using ruby slippers, not doing this, not doing that. Like, and it was fascinating to find three vastly different interpretations of that because I knew about Return to Oz because it's just like, you know, there's some. There's some scenes in that movie that are like, I cannot believe this is technically Disney attached to this in some way, shape or form. [01:37:55] Speaker B: Right. [01:37:56] Speaker A: But, yeah, I think in honor of Wicked for good, probably making 18 billion kajillion wicked dollars, I think it'd just be kind of fun to finish off November with just a true oddity. Probably not befitting Navaz, or maybe so, depending on how you feel about it. But, yeah, tune in on November 29 when we talk about the odd Oz trilogy. But as always, I'm Logan. So. [01:38:25] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [01:38:26] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.