Episode 112: The Twilight of Kurosawa (with Matt Hurt)

[00:00:19] Speaker A: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Sowash. [00:00:23] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:00:24] Speaker A: In Odd Odd Trilogies, we take a trio of films, whether tied by cast and crew, thematic elements, or just numerical order, and we discuss the good, the bad, and the weird surrounding each film. And today we're doing something a bit different. It's probably the first time we've done this type of trilogy, but one that I think will probably show up a bit more as time goes on because there are so many interesting directors that have such long careers that have such ebbs and flows that both Andy and I thought it would be interesting to talk about a director that we both love and discuss the final three fear three films in this director's career. And that is, we're calling this the Twilight of Kurosawa trilogy, which includes 1990s Dreams, or also known as Akira Kurosawa's Dreams, 1991's Rhapsody in August, and 1993's Metadaio. Now, we couldn't do this without a fellow Kurosawa fan who we just had last year had a phenomenal episode talking about Kurosawa's Shakespearean outings. And we thought, what better time to bring back Matt Hurt than to talk about the Twilight of Kurosawa? Matt, introduce yourself. Even though I just said your name. [00:01:43] Speaker C: Hi. Thank you once again, guys for having me back. Kurosawa's like my favorite filmmaker and it's interesting, we'll get into it and everything, but I had not seen any of these three movies before watching them for. [00:02:01] Speaker A: This, so I was literally about to ask you which ones you would see. [00:02:04] Speaker C: So I'm very excited about that. And yeah, if you guys, if your listeners aren't aware, I was on last year for the Shakespeare Shakespeare Cursor, which you just said, Logan. [00:02:20] Speaker A: Yeah, but in case they didn't hear me the first time. [00:02:21] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:22] Speaker C: But I also host if you want me to plug my stuff. [00:02:26] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. [00:02:27] Speaker A: You will do it again at the end, but you will do it? [00:02:29] Speaker C: Oh, yes, yes. So I host the Obsessive Viewer podcast and I also have a spin off podcast called Tower Junkies, a Stephen King podcast and anthology, which is about the Twilight Zone, another sci fi anthology series, but the main one is the Obsessive Viewer and I do movie reviews, try to do weekly, two reviews each week. And I also have a [email protected] obsessive viewer, where I have a whole bunch of exclusive content. And over there, if I can plug that also, I'm Working on a. I'm doing a project where with the Long Walk in theaters now, I had not read the book the Long Walk. So what I'm doing is I'm listening to the audiobook and. But I'm only listening to the audiobook while walking in trails like around here. And after I accumulate a couple of chapters, I then proceed to go on another walk with one of my wireless microphones and I record my review of that section while walking. [00:03:32] Speaker A: Fun. Fun. [00:03:33] Speaker C: And yeah, so I have two episodes out there now on Patreon. That's behind my paywall there. But yeah, on Sunday I walked four and a half miles listening to three chapters and then walked an extra mile and 1.38 miles recording. And so if you want to hear me very much out of breath more so than now, then you can check out patreon. Patreon.com obsessive viewer. [00:03:58] Speaker B: Well, it takes real sack to do that walking. [00:04:02] Speaker A: How many of those miles did Hamill jump out of the tree trees and say you got sad? [00:04:09] Speaker C: No, none. None yet. Although. [00:04:14] Speaker A: Yeah, for me, that thought you're gonna say you had a Patreon side series called Boys for Bachmann where you're just gonna read. [00:04:21] Speaker C: Oh, I actually love that. That. That's actually a really good idea. I like that a lot. [00:04:31] Speaker B: It's your late. It's your late night programming. Yeah. [00:04:33] Speaker C: Yes, yes. [00:04:34] Speaker A: The only reason, honestly, the reason why I know the Long Walk is Bachman is because my, my dad has read all of King and he, his. His special interest is King. So anytime specifically just the eras as well. So like when that was starting, like showing in trailers and stuff, he just said like, wow, they're doing a Bachman. As if like, nice. My brain initially went as like, what do you like? Because I always thought Bachmann was in the 90s. Did not know he did Bachmann's back in the fucking 70s. Yep, yep. [00:05:04] Speaker C: It's really interesting. Not to go on a tangent there, but like, it's really interesting too because this is, this is the first Bachmann book that I've read honestly. And like, I know that at the time I believe the Long Walk was like the first novel that he actually wrote. But it obviously was published much later. But when he decided to use the pseudonym of Richard Bachmann, it's because his publisher was like, hey, you know, we can't, we can't be publishing all of these books each year. You need to like slow it down. So he used the pseudonym as a way to just publish more and get more money for you. Know his kids and stuff. But it's funny I say that because it's so. It's so funny because you think, like, oh, you know, he was. He had a pseudonym and, like, he was. Found out that he was. That it was Stephen King and everything. And, like, you read Bachmann, you read, like, the Long Walk, and it's like. [00:06:03] Speaker A: It is. [00:06:03] Speaker C: Like, it's Stephen King not even trying to hide himself. Like, all the Stephen King isms are there. Like, it is. It is a. It is. It is a Stephen King book. And I love it so far. [00:06:16] Speaker A: At least that, like, post 80s, early 90s, at least in that era that he used Bachmann almost in ways to suss out people who were just giving him good reviews because of his name alone. [00:06:28] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:06:29] Speaker A: And then I think apparently King said that he. He thought it'd be funny because some critics said, I don't know about this Bachman guy. He's writing a little too much like King. I wonder if King knows anything about him. And then I think by that time he was like, I can't hide this anymore. I think people are getting. [00:06:45] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:06:45] Speaker A: Too suspicious about it. Yeah. Because Bachmann is. Long Walk, Gerald's Game. This has nothing to do with Kurosawa, right? [00:06:53] Speaker C: He didn't. Yeah. It wasn't Gerald's Game. It was Rage, which is no longer in print. And. Yeah, let me see if I can name all of them. I can't, but Rage, the Long Walk, roadwork. There's like, two or three other ones I can't remember, but. But, yeah, yeah, there's. There's a. There's a decent little chunk there. But I love King. [00:07:20] Speaker A: Yeah, King's great. [00:07:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:22] Speaker A: I'm glad that, you know, you are using the Long Walk to do something really interesting with the Patreon as well as, you know, keeping to the fact that if you don't go above three miles an hour, a child will get shot. [00:07:34] Speaker C: Yes. It's funny because. Because, like, at this time, I have not seen the Long Walk. I am. And I'm only, like, five chapters into the book, so everything's pretty. Pretty good. But, like, while walking, it was. It was somewhat surreal because, like, I, Like, I was on the Monon for the local people here, and, like, there was a bridge, and I was, like, like, readying my. Because this is, like two and a half miles into my walk, and I was, like, readying myself. Like, oh, God, it's gonna be, like, kind of excruciating because of the. Just the incline, because I was already tired and everything. And at that moment in the audiobook, the kids were like, coming up to a very large hill that they were worried about was going to kill them. And I was like, okay, this is. This is interesting. This is immersive. But yes. Oh, yes. [00:08:31] Speaker A: It's what King would have wanted. [00:08:33] Speaker C: Yes, yes, yes. [00:08:36] Speaker A: Akira Kurosawa. Yes, yes. [00:08:39] Speaker C: Let's talk about the king of cinema. Yep, there you go. [00:08:42] Speaker B: Stephen King of Japanese cinema. [00:08:45] Speaker A: Kursawa was born in 1910. The last time we talked about him, the last film in that last trilogy, last year, was 1985's Ron. His biggest film, I think, by that point in his career. It is also his, you know, you know, the last. The precursor to this trilogy. It is the film that he put decade as much like almost a decade into. Put all of his blood, sweat, tears, and every single color that man's ever seen with his eyes on screen. And, you know, when you have a film like Ron come out, which we talk about a lot in our trilogy episode, it's like, what. What exactly do you do from there? And interestingly enough, I think in the most. I think very Kurosawa branded, the next thing he does has a bit of time in between about five years go from mid-80s to 1990. And we go to a film that is eight different vignettes about reoccurring dreams the director has experienced throughout his lifetime. An interesting note that I'll bring up now because it'll be brought up another a few more times as we go on. Hilariously enough, this is not only just the Twilight of Kurosawa, this is also, basically, you could have the subtitle of also the Twilight of Ishiro Honda, who many people may not know off the top of your head, but the reason why we have Godzilla is because of Ishiro Honda. He's a man that he directed and was the pioneer for the original Gojira. And basically, besides these three films, his last two credits, I believe, were helping with, I think two of the Hessai era Godzilla films is story ideas and then passing away after that, or at least being credited for that. And Ron is one of the. In Kurosawa's. Ron Honda is an associate director. Assistant director, Dreams. He directs half of these vignettes. He directs the prologue, the epilogue. [00:10:48] Speaker B: So the raining, the sunshine through the rain. [00:10:52] Speaker A: Sunshine through the Rain. He directs the tunnel. He directs Mount Fuji in red. And then he directs the village with. Gosh. [00:11:03] Speaker C: Village of the Watermills. [00:11:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:06] Speaker A: And then Kurosawa himself does the blizzard, the peach. [00:11:13] Speaker B: The peach orchard. [00:11:14] Speaker A: Peach orchard. [00:11:17] Speaker C: Crows. [00:11:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:19] Speaker A: And Then the Weeping Demon. [00:11:20] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:24] Speaker A: Dragon Dreams is a two hour film and each, each vignette I think is about the same amount of time. I think it's close to like. [00:11:31] Speaker B: Oh really 20 minutes. [00:11:33] Speaker A: They seem pace pretty consistently. [00:11:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, now that I think about it, it never felt like any of them was like running super long or anything. [00:11:41] Speaker A: I think, yeah, I will say I do think all three of these films in different ways are paced. There is, there's a much, there's a slowness to these three films that is very intentional and in a very humanist way. Especially with like Honda's. Like Honda's directed stuff is very much feels very. Just like letting this camera just sit and take it all in. And Kurosawa is a director that is known for that as well. But hilariously enough, there is a story with a later film in this trilogy that apparently Honda did one specific scene in our next film, Rhapsody in August, that Kurosawa couldn't do because he didn't have the patience. So it's like Honda directed half the vignettes and dreams. He was an assistant director and also a writer on Rhapsody in August and then he co directed Kurosawa's final film, Matadayo. So it's interesting the fact that like these two directors who clearly had a relationship and very much a friendship as you know, both auteurs who have been working for decades upon at least half a century in this in the Japanese film industry. It's very interesting how these three films very much feel much so as much Kurosawa in a lot of ways. It also does Honda. And with Dreams, it is a fascinating, very vibrant and thankfully very dreamlike anthology series that I think is the most vivid one in my head because this was the last film I watched of the three. I watched these out of order just because Rhapsody in August was the. The shortest of the three. And I was like, ah, let's jump in. And I just kind of went around with that and honestly I'm very glad I did just because like Dreams for the longest time I thought was his final film mainly because of the Criterion of it all. This is the final film in Kurosawa's filmography that Criterion has the rights for. Both Rhapsody and Matadayo are out of print at the moment. And so I just kind of assumed the reason why, you know, there's no other Kurosawa films after that initially was because this was his final film and it was very surprised to find otherwise. But. But also it just, it just, it has, it does feel like if you Are how do you responding to Ron? By doing something I think very much just a left field shift in the best way. Taking a lot of what you learned from such a big epic, this big colorful epic, and then just making it like, making it smaller but not taking away like the grandiose nature of a dream in that process. [00:14:35] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:37] Speaker A: Well. [00:14:37] Speaker B: And. And so, so left field. Such a left field turn that it's my understanding that Kurosawa tried to get it made through Toho, who he normally worked with. But. Yeah, they didn't want it even after. [00:14:52] Speaker C: Interesting. Wow. [00:14:53] Speaker A: This is gonna be very interesting too. Yeah. Because these three films also have a common theme that you don't see a lot of when you talk about Kurosawa. And that these three films had some different. Different criticisms or different hang ups for either critics or either producers in terms of like what Kurosawa is known for. And yeah, it is. It was very weird to start a Kurosawa film and have the Warner Brothers logo show up. [00:15:19] Speaker C: I. That. Yeah, that is as the. As the. Yeah. As the kids say it. It took me out. [00:15:27] Speaker A: You. [00:15:27] Speaker B: You. You might say you couldn't even. [00:15:29] Speaker C: Yeah, I couldn't even. [00:15:32] Speaker A: Matt had all the lights down, he saw the logo and he said dead ass. For real. [00:15:39] Speaker C: No cap. No cap. [00:15:44] Speaker A: Well, it's also the Spielberg and Amblin. [00:15:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:15:48] Speaker C: Yes. [00:15:48] Speaker A: Ilm. Like, it's so funny how this movie almost feels like Toho doesn't pick this up and everyone in the American film. [00:15:55] Speaker B: Everyone else. [00:15:56] Speaker C: Right. [00:15:57] Speaker A: Like, are you kidding me? [00:15:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:00] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll take the free gold. Thank you. [00:16:02] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. I would love to just be a part of anything Kurosawa. Even if it's Kurosawa's left toe, like big toenail. I will fucking take. [00:16:11] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely. [00:16:12] Speaker A: Whatever you want. [00:16:13] Speaker B: And imagine gear saying, I'll work for free. [00:16:16] Speaker C: Right. And that's such an interesting. Not to jump ahead or anything, but that's an interesting kind of mirror to like the plot in the. In everything of Matadeo. Like, you know, Matadao is a. Is an elderly man who has like the respect of all of his like students and everything and they take care of him. And here it's like, oh, Toho doesn't want him, so everyone else is gonna take care of him because he's taking care of them creatively throughout decades. [00:16:42] Speaker A: So yeah, like it's it. Yeah, it. And I get it too, to a degree. Like we. If you like how look it up as well. Like the film. It's. It's insane to me to think even with Inflation. The film took only $12 million to make in 1990, which now is like. Like $30 million, which is still pretty way. Like, way less than I would have expected with. How gorgeous. But that's the Kurosawa of it all. And of Honda as well, but, like, it only made in 1990. 3 million. So, like, there clearly was, like, a. Probably a limited release. Or is the fact that, like, you know, Kurosawa being so loved by, you know, film buffs and just nerds at the time, didn't really cross over as much as they kind of wanted it to? [00:17:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:28] Speaker A: That doesn't take away from the fact that this movie is great, I think. [00:17:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:17:31] Speaker A: Great. [00:17:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:32] Speaker A: What is your guys's. You can give me top three. You could just give me your favorite vignette. Of all the eight that are here, what are the ones that kind of, like, which one stood out the most to you while watching Matt? [00:17:44] Speaker B: Go ahead. [00:17:45] Speaker C: Oh, I will say, first and foremost, crows that it blew my mind because. And of course, we're spoiling, right? [00:17:58] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. [00:17:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:18:00] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yeah. [00:18:01] Speaker C: Yeah. Crows. Just like, I had this just amazing moment when. When I was watching it. Like, just the fact that you have this just metaphysical existence or this. This. The whole movie is like this ethereal existence, but, like, you have this. This character going into a painting and interacting with Vincent Van Gogh, who is played by Scorsese, and, like, the way that he speaks about art and about the process and everything and all of that, it's just like, holy fuck, this is. I'm watching a conversation about art and creativity between Martin Scorsese and Akira Kurosawa. And he. Like, it's just. It is this amazing love letter to what they are as artists and who they are, and just. It's. It's amazing. Yeah. I. That one stood out to me a lot. And then I also really liked the Tunnel for. [00:19:09] Speaker A: That one was my favorite. [00:19:10] Speaker C: Yeah. Because here's. So, like, I've mentioned one of my podcasts is Anthology. It's kind of dormant right now, but it's all about the Twilight Zone. And the Tunnel is like a twilight zone episode. [00:19:23] Speaker A: 100%. [00:19:24] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's like there are episodes of the Twilight Zone that are exactly like this. This exact thing. Like a soldier haunted by the memory or ghosts of. Of compatriots who died. Like, those are. There are multiple episodes that are that in the Twilight Zone. So seeing that through in this context and seeing it done this way, which is just. Was just really. Really was really captivating to me. [00:19:57] Speaker B: The Tunnel is So eerie, too, because there's so little. I mean, it's like, mostly silent, aside from, like, the sounds of the marching and things like that, you know, it's just really puts you on edge. [00:20:13] Speaker C: Yes. [00:20:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, the thing, too, is, I think, something else that the film. The way. The way that the film places its vignettes, I think is near perfect, I think, in terms of just like the first two being kind of the ones you've probably seen the clips of. Of, like, the Beauty and the Rainbow and like, the kind of the stunning nature of it all. And, like, dreamlike when you think of Kurosawa and dreams. I think those first two are the ones that. I think so many people, especially right after Ron probably. Yep. This is the guy that did Ron. Like, these. These colors are popping and these are just like. This movie has this feeling to it. And then the third story is fucking a nightmare. It is a nightmare. It is. It is slow, intentionally, to a point where it's almost agonizing. And then it decides to throw in an ethereal thing that you are just like, excuse me, are you showing me? And then you're like, okay, well, the next thing is probably not gonna really fuck with me that way. And then the tunnel, in my opinion, is to make that. Make that the halfway point almost feels insane because it feels just so powerful. And then go. And then you have another hour left and then like, everything after that, I think, yeah. Just having crows be the next thing is like, what the fuck? Settle down. [00:21:40] Speaker B: It goes on a crazy run with lizard. The tunnel and crows. All three. [00:21:46] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [00:21:47] Speaker B: I mean, those. Those are probably my favorite. [00:21:49] Speaker A: Oh, nice. [00:21:50] Speaker B: And just those three being in that order was. I mean, I loved the whole movie, but I was absolutely gripped through all three of those with. Without, like, you know, a moment of wandering. [00:22:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think the tunnel and crows stood out at least immediately to me. The tunnel being my favorite would majorly be. Is like, the first. The first two. Because, like, the film. The film. Also, most of the vignettes, I think, have a version of Kurosawa as the protagonist, but they don't say, hello, my name is akira Kurosawa. At 8. This is my. This is the vignette about this or that. They are credited as. I as a child. I as a young kid. I as a teenager. The first two vignettes have young. A young version of Kurosawa. And those kids are great. It was shocking. Just like these guys. Kids are like. They are holding their own, especially the kid in the. The Peach Orchard. Really good. But then when you get to the tunnel, and because I had to look them up, Akira Tarayo Tararo, who plays the lead in the tunnel, I felt like Don Draper in a. Like a. In a dark theater with, like, a cigarette in my hand being like, who the is this guy? Because at times it is a story about ghost soldiers. It is about ptsd. It is about guilt and being haunted by war. And the most haunting part of that story, even with a whole bunch of ghosts in it, is his face. Every time it cuts to him, it is this. [00:23:30] Speaker C: This he. [00:23:31] Speaker A: You only see the side and the profile. [00:23:34] Speaker C: You're just like. [00:23:34] Speaker A: Even with the profile, I just am captivating. [00:23:38] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:23:38] Speaker A: It's the fourth vignette. And then it's like, well, I want more of him. And then you go into gross. And then he's so great in gross. And he's next to Scorsese, which, again, not known to be the actor for sure, but still, to have this man be right next to Scorsese and just to see him just, like, captivate in his own way and just. And then leads up to, like, the finale. Being him is kind of like. Well, he's also in the Weeping Demon, but the finale very much just like, oh, man. I do love how the movie almost seems like you kind of don't need to know that it's a Kurosawa stand in because he's wearing bucket hats, where it's like, yes, that. I do know that Kurosawa in real. He did like his bucket hats. Yeah, it just. Gosh, I really is. So, you know. Yeah, the Tunnel is my favorite. And so. Matt, it is. Crows. You like the tunnel? What's another one for you? [00:24:39] Speaker C: The Village of the Watermills, I think, was very, very good. Also. [00:24:43] Speaker A: The. [00:24:44] Speaker C: And before that, like, the Peach Orchard, I really like that one as well. Just this kind of environmentalist sort of story. I thought that was really, really strong. But the Village of the Watermills, I think knowing that. Knowing that this is the. These three movies that we're talking about in this. In this episode is. Or the last three of Kurosawa, like, knowing that and watching this for the first time and coming to the village of the Watermills and having that just like that exploration of, like, a peaceful. A peaceful village away from, you know, the world, basically, and having did end on this, on this, like, funeral procession, that's like. Like the celebration of life and everything like, that just. That just really hit home that, like, yeah, this is. This is close to the end of Kurosawa's life and career, obviously. And knowing that this is a collection of his dreams is just. There was something about that confluence of. Of emotions and data in my brain that I was like, oh, my God. This is. This is a. This is going to be an emotional journey watching these three movies. [00:26:07] Speaker A: Like, I think, honest, honestly, like, we'll get to. With monadaio. I'm. There's a part of me that is glad that I didn't finish with my die like you did, Matt, like. Because I think I probably would have cried. [00:26:18] Speaker C: Oh, I almost did. [00:26:19] Speaker A: If I was gonna say, if I had gone chronological, especially with how it ends. God, can't wait to talk about that. [00:26:24] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:26:25] Speaker A: It is, in a way that is like. There is an energy with all three of these films where Kurosawa is not gonna say out loud that this is his last one, but maybe, like, it's almost like. It's really like. Yeah, because Watermills is. It's such an interesting inverse between the beginning of the film where you have the Fox wedding, where it's so. It's so rigid, it's so traditional. It's very know up, like very. Just quiet, in a sense. There's so many dislike. There's a stillness in the air with that wedding that you would maybe feel like would be for a funeral more than anything. [00:27:01] Speaker C: And then when you get to the. [00:27:02] Speaker A: End of the water mills and see the funeral be just this joyous celebration of life, like you said, and just be like, gosh, it's so wild that the. The wedding in these stories is like the quieter one, while the funeral is like, truly a celebration. And I also got to say, too, with the Watermills, because we literally just talked about him a few episodes ago, but an Ozu classic, Chishu Ryu is the old man who's like 103 years old that. That the Kurosawa stand in, talks to. And my God, it's like. It's just go from like, watching him work in Ozu's work 35 years prior to see him in this and just be like, yeah, like, Ryu at this point, I think he passes away in the late 90s to almost the same time that Kurosawa does. And it's just like he just shows up and you just. There's this. This energy where it's like, my God, it is so fascinating to watch this humanist story about just a random guy walking into this village, getting all this lore, being very captivated and into, like, interested in this. But it's not to the point where In a romanticized way. He is at the funeral. He's not celebrating the life of someone he didn't know. Even though there's probably version of the story where, like, he almost gets swept up into it, but he still respects and almost does a traditional thing by having the flowers get put on the rock before he leaves. [00:28:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:28:28] Speaker A: Which I think is just a beautiful moment that is like, you know, you, You. It is this such an energy there that is like. I think anyone can have those moments where. Where you watch this, Zeke, you kind. It's a small town vibe that you never really get, but you kind of wish you could have. [00:28:43] Speaker B: Like. [00:28:44] Speaker A: Yeah, it's just like you walk into some town and it's just like, my God, Lore, what is all this stuff? [00:28:51] Speaker C: You. [00:28:52] Speaker A: He is this woman who broke your heart and she. She just died and you're 103. And he just like. He's just watching from the side, he's just like shaking his little shake. [00:29:04] Speaker C: And it just. [00:29:05] Speaker A: It's just a phenomenal, very bright, bubbly way to end it without feeling too sappy. [00:29:13] Speaker C: Yeah. Very peaceful. [00:29:15] Speaker A: Yeah. Very, very Curacao and I think very Honda in that way, where it's like, very matter of fact, where it's like, it's not like he's a part of the community, but he respects it and he will it always kind of stick in his head. And I think it is very, very touching in that way. And I do like how the movie uses the first two vignettes of the foxwooding and the pear, the peach orchard, to kind of almost be like, oh, yeah, that's kind of how a dream feels where it's kind of like you fall asleep, you're just a kid now. And like, people are just telling you things that are truly insane, reality wise, where it's like, don't go in the woods because the foxes, they like to get married. And if you see them, they're. I have to disown you. Like, it's things like that where it's like, that's. [00:30:02] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:30:03] Speaker A: But as when you're in a dream, you're like, that's logic. And then the second one, I love how, like, the second one deals with the idea of almost like the recency bias of like, the. The way that the orchard is like, set up. Like the hierarchy of the dolls is almost like it's like, that's the one thing, like when you live through life and like the last thing, maybe you before you go to bed, it kind of gets integrated into the dream process. [00:30:25] Speaker C: Yes. [00:30:26] Speaker A: These trees don't necessarily need to look like the dolls that were in that room with his sister and all of her friends, but it makes sense. It's like. It's one of the last things he sees in his reality before he kind of gets put into more of a fantastical world. [00:30:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:30:42] Speaker A: Where they. Where they bloom for the last time, and. And then the blizzard just sucks it all out. [00:30:48] Speaker C: Oh, my God. [00:30:49] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. I. I will say the blizzard is probably one of my least favorites of the vignettes, but I really. I really still enjoyed it, mainly because of, like, it's. I think it just, like, after how bubbly and beautiful the first two are, maybe going back into a rewatch, it will make me help a lot better. But, like, going from, like, popping just, like, storybook, almost vivid, like, vibrancy in the colors to just gray and blue. [00:31:15] Speaker C: And white, I. I think that it. [00:31:18] Speaker A: Does suck it out of you, intentionally so. [00:31:21] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. And it works really well in the movie's favor overall, just because those first two vignettes, like you said, they. They really bring us into the fact that this is a dream that we're experiencing these dreams. Like, they have those moments of fantasticalness that you're working the logic as. You know, the dreamer is working the logic and everything. And then you get the blizzard, which is, like. It's. Like you said, it's not that way. Like, it's. For a long run of it. It's just like these people that are struggling through a blizzard, and I love that, especially for the aesthetic choice of it. Just because classic Kurosawa, like, yeah, extreme weather of some kind, like, weather effects in it are just a big trademark of his filmmaking. And it's. It's great. And as well as Mount Fuji and Red, that I forgot about, like, that. That was stunning. Like, just. Just stunning. Visually stunning. [00:32:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, Mount Fuji and Red. Yeah, it is. Again, there. There is a variety here, and I think there is a quality here across the board. I know. Curse all in quality. I'm really having to take out that. [00:32:37] Speaker C: But, like, yeah, there is. [00:32:38] Speaker A: Like, there is. [00:32:39] Speaker B: You're a simp for cursing. [00:32:41] Speaker A: I really am at this point. But, like, I think there's a quality in the variety here that very much feels like I can understand why this one is your favorite or this one is your favorite or why this one didn't click as much than others. And, yeah, my Fuji in red is just like this. That. That just feels like a roller coaster that starts at 80 miles an hour. It just immediately Goes. It's also kind of insane dream. Likewise because of just the. Just watching Fuji just completely go insane and red. [00:33:15] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:17] Speaker A: It also is the only vignette that has an actor that I know is in every single one of these films, which is Hisashi Igawa, who is the nuclear power plant worker who's like, in the suit and is the one that is just kind of like, you know, I'm the reason why this happened. He's the. He's the. I believe he's the oldest son and the father in Rhapsody in August who goes to Hawaii and comes back. [00:33:42] Speaker C: Okay. [00:33:43] Speaker A: And then he's one of the main. He's. He. I think he is the main guy of the two that, like, really helps the professor in Monadayo. [00:33:51] Speaker B: Yes. [00:33:51] Speaker A: So he's on all. He's in all three of these. And he's. And. And he's just. He just shows again. It's also a class act of a cast. A cast that has worked with like, a lot of these people have worked with Curse how in the past. I mean, this. The Snow fairy in the blizzard is the. Is the wife that keeps hopping from brother to brother and has like that gnarly kill towards the end of Ron. That woman. That woman's the snow fairy. And because I looked at her and I was like, you are scaring me. I've seen you. And it. It really just is like, it's no surprise that I think retroactively, when people watch his career, like, go through his career now, especially when it gets the latter half the dreams has kind of become more of a. Like, while we understand at the time probably why, like, you know, if you're trying to. If you're trying to, you know, top Ron, which he wasn't trying to, but to like, follow up Ron. Yeah, anything you're gonna do is gonna be kind of rough because it's like that film is insane on a scale level and just in everything across the board. And so going for the. The left field kind of like we're gonna scale it down, but not take away the grandiose nature of a dream, like, you know, story and do that eight times in vastly different ways. And also make it a little up at times, make it a little sad. Some great little stories. Spooky Kurosawa does a lot of the spooky ones in this. I mean, Honda does Mount Fujin Red and the Tunnel. But, like, the fact that the Blizzard and the Weeping Demon are the Kurosawa stories is. He does do Peach order portrait. I will go with that. But like it is. It is funny that like, I guess the. The most vivid, I think color wise of Kurosawa's shorts in this is Crows. And that ends with just like, I think a really. A bit of a downer, but also like a very stark, like a beautiful ending that I feel like is just like, you know. [00:36:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:04] Speaker A: Also varied. Shocking of a sequence in Crows. When he gets through all the paint the paintings. That is the most ilm. [00:36:13] Speaker C: Yes. Like in. [00:36:14] Speaker A: Where it's like I am trying to see how I'm trying to rack around my brain how they can make it not look like he's running on a treadmill or how like the shadow. I swear at one point I think it's one of the first paintings. I'm pretty sure they rotoscope his shadow. [00:36:31] Speaker B: Yeah, like. [00:36:32] Speaker A: Like there's one. Because there's not a lot of like shadows work in that scene where he's running through all the paintings. But there is a one. I'm like, God, ILM would be the one. They could have. It could have just been when they shot it. They could have shot on a giant green screen or something. But like they. There. There's no way they didn't at least try to rotoscope a shadow at one point. [00:36:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Really quick. I'm reading here. I see that Scorsese said that he could not say no to Kurosawa or because it was Kurosawa and he took a break from making Goodfellas in order to be in dreams. Just to think like he's in the middle of making Goodfellas. It's like, I'm gonna go be Vincent Van Gogh. But apparently also according to where was it Ishiro Honda's biography Ishi Life and Film from Godzilla to Kurosawa. It says that there's a common misconception that Honda co wrote or directed the Tunnel. But Kurosawa hadn't had him instruct the actors in the segment on how to march and hold their guns due to his experience in the military. [00:37:48] Speaker A: Oh, nice. Okay. So no, Yeah. I think with IMDb it says that he. Do you work on the Tunnel? So that's what I was working. [00:37:55] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:37:55] Speaker A: Yeah. At least. Yeah. At least on IMDb it says he does. He says the tunnel, Mount Fuji in red. And then I guess the prologue and epilogue of the Weeping Demon. [00:38:07] Speaker C: Okay. [00:38:08] Speaker A: I don't know what that means. [00:38:09] Speaker C: Yes. [00:38:10] Speaker A: But so maybe. I mean, honestly, it could have been mostly Kurosawa. Total. [00:38:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:15] Speaker A: I mean, which makes sense because it is a curse. [00:38:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:38:17] Speaker A: Film. But it is, I think yeah. Because at this time as well, I mean, understandably so. The man is 80. [00:38:26] Speaker C: Yes. [00:38:26] Speaker A: Even though, even though Honda's not 20, right. There is kind of like, if you look through, I think Ron, Onwards for a lot of the assistant directors and a lot of help that Kurosawa had. He has a lot of assistant directors that help with, with this and also help kind of put this together and. Oh, yeah, to be, to be honest, I think it. Understandably so. I think even with Ron, Ron, he. I think he talks about with like storyboarding and set it up. It's. It is a stressful, hefty task to. [00:38:50] Speaker C: Do a lot of the shots in Iran and. [00:38:53] Speaker A: Yeah, you can't do that by yourself. [00:38:54] Speaker C: Oh, no. [00:38:55] Speaker A: It's good to have some help that can at least also have an eye or at least aware of how your eye works. Yeah, you can be like, yeah, please tell those people on that hill, just go do that. [00:39:05] Speaker C: Right. [00:39:05] Speaker A: They're like two miles away. Can you be over there? [00:39:08] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, asking for. [00:39:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:11] Speaker C: Also considering the fact that even, even when he was making ron in the 80s, like, his vision was already starting to fail. Like, and by the time he's in his 80s now and making these three films, it's like, I can't, like, I don't want to play this game. But, like, I wonder how. How much more, like, beautiful and how much more like, intricate they could have been if he made them earlier in his career. But it's also a conundrum or it's a, It's a catch 22 because I don't know, would he have had. Yeah. Would he have had that experience and like, would it have that same level. [00:39:49] Speaker A: Of. [00:39:53] Speaker C: Finality to it if he made these three films earlier? [00:39:57] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, I mean, I think the beauty. Part of the beauty of these films, these three is. Yeah. Where they come for him, that they are his last three and they come after what, 50 plus years of filmmaking, you know, like just. Yeah, you can see the, not just the experience but, like the, the heartache and the like, knowing he's almost done and the understanding of, of life lived and life ending. [00:40:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:35] Speaker B: In all three of these films you. [00:40:37] Speaker A: Go, you go to a man who, like, has been working since the early 40s and nearly, like dominating every. Every decade to a certain degree in terms of the amount of film, but amount of films he puts out. But then you look at like, honestly, I think it shows like, his final film he does with Mifune is redbeard, which is 65. And then if you look at his 70s output. He only has technically four films, but only one of them. He does, like, sequences in Japan, he doesn't do the full film. He just does, like, sequences for it. And so, like, there's a whole decade where there's just technically three full Kurosawa films, which is kind of unheard of when you think of the amount of the other films and just, like, the other classics he has on there. [00:41:20] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:21] Speaker A: And then you get to, like, the. The 80s. And then, of course, he just comes out of the gate with Kagamusha and then goes into Ron. [00:41:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:41:29] Speaker A: And it's like, hey, yeah. It has everything to do with placement, for sure, in terms of how we are looking at this, in terms of how we're feeling, like. Yeah. Is there. Is there an awareness here that would have been here telling these narratives in the 70s, right? Like, no, I don't think so. [00:41:48] Speaker C: No, I think. [00:41:48] Speaker A: I think they're very much. But I think that's. There's so many directors where it's like, you could have the answer to, like, you know, would the Irishman have the same thing for Scorsese if he did that in the 90s? And it's. [00:41:59] Speaker C: Right. [00:42:00] Speaker A: Like, it's like, no, I don't think it'd be the same thing at all. But, like, there is. I think that's why it's important that these films even exist to begin with and how it is important to talk about the context of, like, yeah, his losing his eyesight very early on in the 80s. And also just, like, his collaboration with so many different artists, both in the Japanese film industry and just people who admire him and are also, you know, directing goodfellas. [00:42:24] Speaker C: Right. [00:42:25] Speaker A: Working with ilm, it was just like. And just working with all these creators and, like, actors, which we'll talk about in Rhapsody in August, who. It's just like, they are at the height of, like, their popularity or they're about to do something where, like, there is considered, like, their second wind or even their third wind. [00:42:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:42:42] Speaker A: And like, they're just like, I want to. I want to work with Kurosawa. Like, there's. There is no. Like, there's no. Like, your time has ended, old man. It's time. [00:42:53] Speaker C: Right. [00:42:53] Speaker A: Like, it's like, no, they just. Kurosawa is a kind of filmmaker that feels very much like anyone who wants to be involved in his projects are like, I'm just glad you're making these. [00:43:01] Speaker C: Oh, totally. [00:43:02] Speaker A: And it does seem like, I think when they talk about Matadayo, like, when they were doing Production. Nothing about Mata Dio felt like when he was making it, like it didn't feel like he wanted that to be his final film. That just ended up being it. Like, I just think it just unfortunately worked out in a way that, you know, that came out in 93 and then five years later he unfortunately passed away. Like, I think it's, it says a lot that like it's, it's interesting that that final film. Actually we'll get to that. I will wait until we get to my diet because I could talk about that just as much as with Dreams. Is there anything. Oh, you sure? [00:43:36] Speaker B: I mean, maybe this will serve as a transition. You're talking about, you know, just the importance of, you know, where these films fall and how to. How we consider them. I think it's also really important to recognize Kurosawa putting, you know, the now renowned half Japanese actor Richard Gere on the map. You know, it's just a great critical moment in film history. [00:44:03] Speaker A: So. Yeah, so yes, and phenomenal segue. There's no. I mean, we might as well talk about that. Oh yeah, yeah. Dreams is, I think at the time comes out, makes about I think 3 million in American. Like US dollars is decently, I think critically well reviewed at the time or at least now retroactively consider one of his latter classics that deserves to be, you know, loved more now. But post that we are now in a really interesting era. We're now going to talk about his final two films that have not even necessarily controversy, but very unique takes that, you know, when you have a career like Kurosawa and has like again, we've talked about a lot in the Shakespeare episode. We're going to talk about it here. Like there are very few Kurosawa films that I've personally seen that I wouldn't call like great. And the ones that I would say that are really good are like those really good Kurosawa films are better than some directors, phenomenal films. Like they're just. Oh yeah, just kind of where that is. And the man made, I believe 31 to 32, maybe even 33 films total. Like, I don't necessarily know, like curacao, I believe 33 films. [00:45:17] Speaker C: I want to say it's 30, fact check. But I think there's like one. I think it's 30, but I think there's like one or two that are lost a time. Like early ones. Like. [00:45:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, because his very first film or at least is Senshiro sugata, which is 1943. [00:45:33] Speaker C: Right. [00:45:34] Speaker A: Which IMDb just says 33 I'm looking, doing a little, little quick, trying to see. So yeah, I think maybe one of them, maybe closer to 32. Because one of the films I was referring to when Talking about the 70s era of Kurosawa is he did the, he did some of the Japanese sequences is for Tora. Tora, Tora. [00:45:52] Speaker C: Right. [00:45:53] Speaker A: But he was uncredited, so it's not really a trickurosawa film. He just did some of the sequences there. So about 3,132 films. [00:46:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:00] Speaker A: And when you do, when you do that many, like, it just means, like, I think it's. We see it a lot now when we talk about, in an American sense, Scorsese, where it's like when you have a director that just has, you know, eras that are just sometimes like, oops, all bangers for like a solid decade, even if that next film he does is not, you know, fantastic or at least perfect in some people's eyes. There's some people that just go like, I guess he's lost it. I guess it's not as good as the other ones. And it's like, hold on. Yeah. [00:46:31] Speaker B: And I will say samurais. [00:46:33] Speaker A: Oh my gosh, where's Mifune is? [00:46:36] Speaker C: If they hadn't stopped looking. [00:46:37] Speaker A: 25 years of this. [00:46:38] Speaker C: Right? [00:46:39] Speaker A: But yeah, Rhapsody in August does have that energy of like, I could see someone watching this and being like, really Kurosawa. And it's like, it's there for sure. I mean, it's very much like, I think the story's your love of the characters and just like really sitting with them and really letting the drama. It's a very low stakes drama in the best way up until we get to like a third act that is very much a, a very familial crisis. But I think it's. There is something in Rhapsody and August that is like, I am so happy that I've got to see the film. But I can also understand if someone, like, I'd be shocked if someone said this was their favorite Kurosawa. I would be happy for them. Maybe it's because they love retro gear, fanatically speaking Japanese. And if that's the case, there's only one Kurosawa film that does that. But it is very much so. It feels like a very interesting film to tackle, but also a very human, very powerful film at its best moments. And also just a very sweet movie overall, talking about a very serious topic and a very interesting conversation involving generational trauma and discussing how that trauma affects generations past. You know, truly feeling that vibration other than Just being in the aftermath of that and the, the side effects of what they had to go through with that. Because with raps in August, there's. It's more, it's less descriptive in the IMDb description, but it's really just about. It's a summer where a bunch of kids are living with their grandmother and you know, they live in his. Their grandmother lives in Nagasaki. Right. And it's these children who are really fascinated with America and you know, the American culture. And clearly, you know, their parents, they're at their grandmother's because their, their parents are meeting long lost family relatives that have moved to Hawaii in the 20s, before World War II, and now own a pineapple farm and are rich and are just fascinated by the idea of like, we have American relatives. That's so wild. That's so cool. And then in the process of just like trying to match their head around that, you know, thinking about the fact that understanding that the reason why they don't have their grandfather with them is because he was at the epicenter of the bomb when Nagasaki and Hiroshima were hit and leads to this very interesting conversation where the story is the driving force, really. The driving force, I guess, really is like, will their grandmother reconnect with the sibling that they do not remember? Because, like, the grandmother who apparently, and I think this makes a lot of sense, is like one of four women to be like the leads in a Kurosawa film. There's very few female leads in his career, which we're saying is. Kurosawa hates women. Yeah. [00:49:55] Speaker C: Cancel them. Cancel them. [00:49:58] Speaker A: I know it's. You might think it's too late, but. [00:50:01] Speaker C: Yep. [00:50:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's Sachiko Morase. She's. She's the grandma. She is as sweet as can be. She is so phenomenal in this movie and she very much holds the weight of the conversation. Anytime they talk about just family trauma, talking about just how to, how to move on from something like that, you know, like, do you even really move on? Which is something that I think the ending of the film, whether you like it or not, I think has a really poignant, very strong response to that. [00:50:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:39] Speaker A: And I think ultimately has like this very interesting dynamic of having mostly the film be about the grandmother and the children and just like seeing how the children respond to all these little stories that the grandma's lived with her entire life and just really try to come to terms with, like, what, you know, they have this like, very childlike conversation like, should we hate America? Should we, like, be mad at our parents? For like really liking their American relatives or like really wanting to be like chummy with them. Because it's. It's their great. Is it their great uncle? No, it's their. It's just their, Their grand uncle, I believe, is like, who lives in Hawaii, I believe. [00:51:27] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:51:28] Speaker A: Familiar. Yeah. Because it's like he. Because yeah. It's another thing too, I think, is like, it's not necessarily meant to be funny, but it is like, it makes sense as to why. Because a lot of the film also deals with the fact that like the grandma doesn't even know if this guy is really. [00:51:43] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:51:43] Speaker A: It's yeah or not. And then it's like, why wouldn't she know? And so initially you might think it's like, is there like a degenerative, like, you know, mental thing? And she's like, no, we had like, there was like 10 of us. There's like 10 of us. And a lot was going on at the time. You're like, oh, yeah, that's. That makes sense. And he left in the 20s, so like. Yeah, that's. There's a good chance that they've. She's never even thought that she could have a brother that was that old, or at least if he did, it's been forever. And right there is that fun dynamic of the kids. You know, like the one, the. The oldest. The oldest boy who's trying to fix the organ, who is like, you know, I think one point he stays behind and talks to grandma about all the kids in her family tree and they're just like a chalkboard of names. [00:52:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:29] Speaker A: Being like, I think this guy might be in between these two because all the boys names are based off of metals. [00:52:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:38] Speaker A: Like types of metal. And he's like, I think this is what they show up. It's like very. It's a slice of life story in a way that is. [00:52:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:46] Speaker A: Very. I think, you know, I think it probably at the time may be shocking for someone who thinks Kurosawa could just pull Ron's out of a hat anytime he wants to, or a dream out of dreams out of a hat. But I think it also kind of makes sense where it's like, if you're a director who has an idea, you really speak to you. And again, like Honda, Kurosawa and then Akio Murata are all writers on this film. So like they co wrote this film. If it's a story that speaks to you, even if it's not like a grandiose narrative, what do you got to lose? Like, you've already spent like decades of your life making what some people will say like is the greatest thing that's been ever been made, which I read in his head is like ridiculous. But like, because he's like, that's just like, come on this. Don't. Don't put that on me. I don't want that ego. Yeah, but it's like he. I think it's like if you're in your 80s and you read and you write this story and it's very interesting to you and you. Do you want to go for it? Go for it. And I really like the dynamic of the family is the driving force that I think will really make or break if you're interested in this. And I, yeah, I genuinely. While I'd probably say this is my least favorite of the three films, I really liked this movie. Again, I think this is a lot like, I think it's. I really enjoyed the drama or like at least the fame familial dynamic. And I will admit there's, I think to me there's one specific part of the family dynamic that once it gets introduced, I do think it. I don't lose interest, but I do kind of get a little like bummed out because we get less time with the kids. But before I talk about that, I want to hear your guys's thoughts because I just realized I've been dominating and I don't want to be doing that. [00:54:32] Speaker C: Andy, what'd you think? [00:54:35] Speaker A: No, I want Matt to speak first. [00:54:39] Speaker B: Thanks for having me on your guys show. [00:54:43] Speaker A: This is boys for Bachmann. [00:54:48] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I mean, I think, you know, what you said when we were kind of teeing up this movie, Logan, that, you know, even a weaker Kurosawa movie is still an enviable film for many other filmmakers. I think that's true. And, and lots of, I mean, all of Kurosawa's craft and attention to detail is here, but it's interesting. It's a very sleepy movie, very lackadaisically paced. And also, I don't think it's like terribly slow. It's just that it's very content to just kind of sit with characters having a seemingly or even matter of factly aimless discussion about something. And you're picking up little pieces about these characters and their family history through these conversations. But I think the thing that I kind of struggled with in this movie was how it all almost seems to deliberately like esquew climax or revelation of any kind. It's kind of just like at every turn it's like, you know, it feels like, oh, we're kind of, we're kind of unraveling the mystery of the, the family or we're kind of getting to the core of what this person feels about this thing and then the scene is just kind of over and we move on to the next thing. [00:56:26] Speaker C: Yes. [00:56:27] Speaker B: You know, I can see that being a deliberate kind of conscious thematic dynamic for Kurosawa of just kind of like, well, you know, that's how life actually operates. It's not these big swells and moments where everything is put on the table and then we have resolution and we're done. You know, begin the next arc. You know, life is more, it's messier than that and it's, it's more continual than that. And so I get that. But it, you know, it certainly, it made it kind of a more, I don't know, a slightly more difficult watch and a maybe at least for me, like a less emotionally rewarding watch because even though I was into the conversations and I, you know, was interested in finding out more about this family, it still felt like, you know, at every turn it just kind of opted not to deliver on whatever thing it was kind of building toward. At least that's how it felt to me. So, yeah, I was not disinterested in the movie. It's not like I disliked it, but it was very much like, huh, I'm following this and I'm interested, but I want to feel more engaged at every turn. That's kind of where I was at with it. [00:57:56] Speaker C: Yes, I agree. And here's the thing. Let it be known, I am a massive Kurosawa fan and I am currently wearing for listeners can't see I'm wearing my Seven Samurai shirt. [00:58:16] Speaker A: The shirt just says Logan and Andy, please nod and say it's my Seven Samurai. [00:58:19] Speaker C: Yes, but I feel like this movie was like we talked about how like, oh, could he have made these three movies earlier in his career when he was frankly more sharp or more able to really pour more into it. This movie is the one of the three where I wish he had. It's not a bad movie. I still liked it. I enjoyed it quite a bit. I think there is a lot of really strong emotional stuff and a lot of strong subtext. A lot of stuff with family dynamics and how they act generationally and how they process this generational trauma of the bomb. The thing is, this is a 90 minute movie and I feel like the way that it's attempting to tell this multi generational story about the effects or how like the bomb, the atomic bombs in World War II affected Japanese life. And with that, I think the first third or so of the movie where it's focusing on the kids learning about the bomb, learning about their family connection to the grandfather's death and learning what their grandmother has experienced and has internalized for decades at this point that is some of the most riveting. Incredible character work, incredible writing, really, really fascinating. Especially when like the early scenes of the movie, like you guys said, was they're kind of like they're, they very much are into American culture. They're all wearing like American shirts and they're all excited about the prospect of going to Hawaii and everything. And like they even say like, oh like my job tomorrow is to, is to, is to convince grand grand grandma to want to go to go to Hawaii. And then the next day they learn about like they go to Nagasaki and they learn about all of this in that like the temperature changes in them that, that like they learn about it and they learn more than just like they learn a not first. Well, I guess, yeah, first hand account. But like they learn like what it's really like outside of the history books and everything. And I found that to be so great. It's such a great piece of writing and filmmaking. And then from there like the, the kind of next generation, the adults. I feel like that was maybe not, not really developed enough for me. Like by the time we get like, we've established this very rich backstory and really rich like characterization for the kids, then the parents come home and it's like, okay, okay, we're not really learning much. Like the most that they go through is like figuring out like oh God, we sent the telegram off. And like Clark is like it's going to be awkward because they don't like, it's all kind of talking about Japanese and American like, like coexisting and like. [01:01:57] Speaker B: The difference in customs. [01:01:59] Speaker C: Exactly. And like how Americans view the bomb whereas Japan views it and like having that like those are really interesting ideas. But I think that after having such, having been front loaded so much with just rich like development for the children to learn it and then having that be more, I don't want to say really lip service but having it be more like, like oh, it's going to be awkward when he gets here or it's going to be awkward because like now, now we've rocked the boat because we like it's a, it's a very delicate thing that we don't really talk about. And then, then that Just kind of lost me a little bit because I kind of wish that that would. Had had more time to really develop that. That attitude, that idea. And then when Richard Gere shows up, like, it. He's fine, it's okay, but like, it just. [01:02:57] Speaker B: He's kind of there and then he's gone. [01:02:59] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:03:00] Speaker A: Which is I think the biggest thing that I wish we had more of. [01:03:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:03:05] Speaker A: Because I. I'm so glad you brought up the parents because in my opinion the biggest issue with the film is that, you know, IMDb describing his three generations responses to the box. [01:03:14] Speaker C: Right. [01:03:15] Speaker A: In reality, it's two generations. [01:03:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:03:18] Speaker A: Because like, yes, you do get a response from the parents. But the thing is the parents, while it's interesting, the idea that it's like these, the adults that are like in their 40s and are like embarrassed that an American has to hear about the bombs and have to think about that because you had the whole. The real. The closest thing to like full drama that the film has is the fact that like grandma at one point is like, okay, yeah, I'll go meet my. I'll go meet my brother. I would like to meet him, but I'm gonna. We're gonna go see him after August 9th. Because August 9th is the memorial for all the people that died in Nagasaki due into the by. [01:03:56] Speaker B: Right. [01:03:57] Speaker A: And that's when like, they send the telegram over. And since the telegram was sent over while their parents are coming back on a plane, they didn't get to see that telegram. And then the parents just get embarrassed, overly sensitive about telling them, just telling that family, like, yeah, we just have to do a memorial service and then we'll be over there. [01:04:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:04:17] Speaker A: And ultimately, hilariously becomes the third generation is through gear more than anything, almost generation just feeling very. [01:04:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:26] Speaker A: Guilt written but like less guilt written about as American, more just feels like we never knew that there's. [01:04:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:04:33] Speaker A: Family. And we're so sorry that you have to go through this. [01:04:37] Speaker C: I think that's. That's honestly kind of my biggest issue with the movie is that gear is an extension of the parents generation. They're their thing. And then by the end, like it finishes strong with. With the grandmother. Like it's showing her like her, you know, having that just regression and like really demonstrating how much like the weight of it has, has. Has worn her down and is weighed on her for so long. And again, classic Kurosawa, like weather effects, like just really bringing home the drama. But I think the missing piece of that middle part or the middle generation is that the pieces Are there. The broad strokes of this is brilliant. This could have been one of Kurosawa's masterpieces if it had more room to breathe. Because, like I said, that first act with the kids, great. But when you're examining these three generations, you've got the grandmother who witnessed firsthand, experienced this. [01:05:45] Speaker A: This. [01:05:45] Speaker C: This horrific event. And then you have the second generation, the. The parents who. Who are cognizant of it, but they learned about it, like, they. Like, it was recent enough when they learned about it, that they know the. They know the. They know the faux pas of it, and they know, like, the aftermath of it in turn, trying to have, like. Like this relationship with America and everything. And then the kids, they just. They know about it as, like, a thing that existed before they existed. Like, it's this thing. Exactly. And, like, when you have, like that. And especially with some, like, a subject matter such as, like, an atomic bomb, like, it's something that. This is a small tangent, but, like, I. I mean, like, yeah, we have, like, Oppenheimer and we have, like. Like media. Like, we. We. We know, like, what happened, but, like, it's still. It still confounds me a little bit to think that, like, oh, they're like an atom. Like, we. We bombed with atomic weapons, a country twice. And, like, just like nuclear arms, like, it's just so. It's crazy to me, but. But, yeah, I just think that the movie. Like, what. The biggest issue I have with the movie in that middle section or with that middle generation is that the parents experience their internalizing and their processing of the bomb is kind of cut short because we're seeing Richard Gere's perspective. And I mean, here's the thing. If I'm seeing a Japanese movie about Nagasaki and the bomb and everything, I frankly, I don't give a shit about Richard Gere's perspective. I want to see Matt, I think. [01:07:38] Speaker A: You missed the part where he speaks Japanese. [01:07:40] Speaker C: Oh, that's right. [01:07:41] Speaker A: Yes, he speaks Japanese. [01:07:43] Speaker C: Yes, that's true. [01:07:46] Speaker A: He's. He's. He's. He's a part of the family. I mean, like, it's. It is kind of astounding too, how, like, yeah, going into this, I am. I'm like, all right, this is the Richard Gere Kurosawa movie. This is like, what is. What. What brings him in into, like, the narrative? And so when you see him in, like, pictures in the beginning, I'm like, don't. You can't fool me. I know that's not the only thing he's in. I know you're not gonna have that. Those snapshots would have cost a fortune. Unless he really shuts up. Yeah, but I, I really, I mean, because Gear. Yeah, it's one of those things where I think the, the parents perspective and Gear's perspective and just Gears. Involvement with the family. Family does feel cut short and little underdeveloped. Mainly because, like, there are just two, I think two of the best scenes in the movie have Gear in them. Not necessarily because Gear leads those scenes, but, like, I think in my opinion, two of the, Two of the best scenes in the movie involve the, the kids going to the school where their grandfather passed away. And they have rebuilt the school. And there is the melted jungle gym that is, like, supposed to be memorial for all the people that died at Nagasaki that lurked at that school and just everyone who died at that day. And then there is a refresh of that later on when Clark shows up. And the kids believe that they have, you know, they've messed up even though they didn't, they didn't mess anything up. I, I, if anything, I, the, the parents are such dickheads for a solid. [01:09:14] Speaker C: Part of their runtime. [01:09:15] Speaker A: I'm glad they get a little bit of, like, we're sorry. We were fools. Sorry about the kids. But, like, they go to that gym, jungle gym, to kind of, like, really sink in and really take in that moment. And then the parents and Gear show up, and then survivors and family members and loved ones of the people that passed away and Nagasaki show up and they work on the monument. And like, that alone, that scene by itself would be like, okay. It's really. Actually, even though Gear is not the focal point, I do like how Gear is showing. Like, yeah, he's, he's, he's, he's present, he's involving himself, but he's not making it about him, which is, I think, phenomenal and a great interpretation. And then I would say the best Gear scene, in my opinion, is the scene with the grandmother. Because it's also a callback to an. Early on in the film, there's an older woman who shows up and is, quote, unquote, talks to the grandma, but they just sit there in silence. Yeah, and there's kind of like this conversation about, like, you know, her husband died in the bombing as well. And also at a certain point, you didn't hear her speak stuff, but she was, she was speaking volumes. We were communicating. You just couldn't hear it. And to be the next scene after the playground scene with Gear, the next scene of his being with the grandmother. And they're seeing each other sitting there silently for a solid 30 seconds and really showing how that generational gap, as well as a gap across the ocean really doesn't take away from their connection to one another in a familial sense. [01:10:48] Speaker C: Right. [01:10:48] Speaker A: And I think really is just like, I want more of that. And ultimately, like, Gear has every right at this point. Especially, like this late in Cursao's career in this, like, high point in Gears career has. It would be no surprise if there's a version of this movie where Gears in it solely for star power, if he's solely in this. Because it's like, you want an American to show up in your movie just to be like, you know what? You know, put someone in there that's really gonna sell tickets. And it's like, Gear at this point is like, at the height he's getting there. And it. This movie has every right to use Gear in a cynical way. But I think scenes like the jungle gym, as well as Clark's introduction, like, Clark showing up and just being like, when we heard about why my aunt can't show up, I. We were heartbroken. We were crying. And there's like. And it's so genuine in a way that is, like, Gear knows, like Andy said earlier, like, Gear was. Would have done this for free. I think giving a good performance with very little there for him. Almost the point where, like, he. When he's out of the film, it's like, it's. I think it's a genuine bummer because I wanted more of that dynamic. And. But it's also, like, not surprising because the whole thing about it, too, is they want the grandma to meet her brother because her brother's not feeling well. And so there's always this kind of, like, tinge of, like, is something. Is he gonna make it? And sadly, Gears time in the film is cut short because, unfortunately, his father passes by the end of it and then leads to. At least to the grandma. I think this really an interesting, Interesting idea that I think Kurosawa and Honda, I'm glad they tackle, even though it's such a good. An interesting cuts of just, like, morning and dealing with, like, mourning and dealing with the trauma surrounding someone you didn't even know. Like, you just kind of like, you knew their relationship to you, but you didn't know them personally yet. You are grieving what you could have had. [01:12:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:58] Speaker A: And I think it's like, this really interesting dynamic that is like, again, I think Morasse, like. Like, as an actress Even though she's the sweetest oldest woman and the. The slowest walker out of all of them, she is the. She just anytime she's on screen, I think there is a. Like, I'm captivated to hear when she speaks. And also I'm. I'm worried about her emotions. Like, hilariously, the catalyst that kind of leads to the kids going to the monument at Nagasaki is that the kids don't like her cooking. And so they're, like, trying to explain to her, like, listen, I understand when you were a child, you ate just, like, beans and this and like it, but it doesn't taste like anything. And, like, it's supposed to be a scene that is almost kind of comedic, but, like, her face is genuinely just, like, shocked and kind of sad. And I'm like, she's doing such a good job, this poor woman. Give her a hug. Do something for her. And then that leads to the kids being like, oh, we'll go shopping tomorrow and we'll get some stuff for food. And then that leads into the conversations about Nagasaki and. But, like, she just. It's no surprise that even though it's. I think it's hilarious that, like, there's a version, like, all the poster as well. Some of the DVD covers use the final moment as, like, the selling point of it. Which, to be fair, if you go on IMDb now and you look at other variants, I believe there's a Japanese, maybe a VHS variant where it's just the kids in richer gear hanging out the waterfall, which is like. Which is like, really shows how much gear is in the film. Not a lot I would personally would have enjoyed using. [01:14:36] Speaker B: But he makes a splash. [01:14:38] Speaker A: He does make a splash. He makes a splash. That's good. That's a good joke. Comedy. Points for Andy for that. Two gear coins for Andy. [01:14:46] Speaker C: Right. The thing that I kind of like, my read of the grandmother at the end isn't necessarily that she's grieving someone that she doesn't know. I think that it's more that she's remembering. Like, she's remembering him, she's having that memory. And I think that maybe this is reading into it because, like I said, this is. I wish that there was more room to explore these things, but, like, having this. This shock of knowing that someone that was a part of her family, a part of her life at one point is now gone and she did not have the opportunity to say goodbye or to. To, like, have him be in her life even. Yeah. And, like, having that. Having that be, like, the reason for that being that, you know, she suffered this trauma that she witnessed the bombing of Nagasaki and that completely altered her entire just being. And I think that runs through it, especially with like the kids talking about how the food doesn't taste good. And it's because that was a thing of necessity in her childhood is that she didn't have, like, she didn't have anything there. And so I think that there's a really good through line there. But to go back, like to kind of go back to talk about the adults a little bit, I, again, wearing a Seven Samurai shirt, nothing against Kurosawa at all, but I think that the movie, when gear shows up, it runs the risks. And maybe this is the cynical American douchebag that I am looking into this. But it flirts a little bit with like, oh my God, is this going to be like a. Like, oh, the American is going to come and save the day in terms of like the drama of like, oh, like, are we supposed to hate Americans or whatever? It seemed like a little bit. Maybe it's, maybe it's Gears performance, but it just feels like, like, oh, we're like tense about how he's gonna react to it. Oh, no, no, he's, he's a good person. Like, he's having these like very emotional reactions to it, which is great. But I think in if, if the movie hadn't been a Japanese movie, if the movie had been a Richard Gere fronted American movie about this, I think it would be a very different read in terms of being like a almost tone deaf thing, which is sidestepped in this because it is from the Japanese perspective. But it just had like that needling thought in the back of my head whenever he was talking. And I think that it's mostly because he is effective in that role. He is effective at carrying that emotion and everything. But I think to go back to it again, it's at the expense of the other adult characters, their development. And I think that that's where the divide is for me. But I love the grandma though, because again, I don't. [01:18:04] Speaker A: Because again, I think both the actors who play the parents are really good and they're good actors all together and nothing against their physicalities whatsoever. But I'm just saying you can give them all the development in the world, but when you put early 90s Richard Gere on that screen, my eyes are gonna go straight to gear. Such as, man, that's a beautiful man who's at the height of his popularity. [01:18:26] Speaker B: And like when he's the odd one Out. [01:18:29] Speaker A: He's the odd one out. And it's like. It's. It is like every time he speaks English, you need some subtitles. And it's like, like, okay. Yeah, it's. It is. It is very. It. There is. I do. If anything, I love the cynicism that's kind of built into the parents thinking that this guy is, you know, this guy's American. He's, you know, he's. He's half white. He's. Or he's. He's white, he's got money. He's like, lives in Hawaii. The first thing he's gonna think as soon as he gets that telegram is, I was gonna give you opportunities financially, but now I'm just gonna take that away. Even though your family. And to have him show up and just be like, no, genuinely, like, I'm so sorry to hear, like, even though that happened 40 plus years ago, that's horrible to have, like, that tragedy in our family. And I'm so sorry to hear that. And I just wanted to. I wanted to show my, you know, just that my presence here is just to be here, if any way. [01:19:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:19:27] Speaker A: I want to know you. I want to know you better. And I think it's like, it does have. And it's interesting, too, to talk about, like, the possibility sounding like tone deafness in that kind of conversation, because apparently a lot of critics, Japanese critics, thought the film was a little bit tone deaf in terms of how it talks about all the atrocities that America does during World War II, but does sidestep things that Japan did the same time during the World War II. [01:19:52] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [01:19:52] Speaker A: And to be honest, watching it, I was thinking, like, yeah, the grandmother's not bringing that up. At the same time, the grandma's, you know, crux and trauma tied to World War II is specifically the Nagasaki bomb. She's not talking about. She's not talking about the war itself. And at a certain point, the only time I think she bad mouths Americans at a certain point, I think is only when her kids are chastising her grandchildren, being like, how dare you tell these Americans about World War II and Nagasaki? And she goes, why should we not remind them of this horrible thing that they did? Like, they didn't do that personally to us, but America did do that. There's no reason to. Yeah, that didn't happen. And in my head, I'm just. What I watch this scene, I'm like, yeah, nothing about this film is trying to. It's not trying to put under the rug, like, Pearl harbor or other Things. [01:20:41] Speaker C: Things. [01:20:42] Speaker A: And it's like. It's very much like it's just saying, like, through this family's perspective, specifically this woman, she's. There's. I think there is. Even the kids at one point bring up like, you must hate Americans. And she really doesn't. But at the same time, she doesn't like them either. She doesn't really have any experience. And so, like, that's why the gear scene, I think is so impactful, is because that. That might be the first time ever, or at least for a while, that she's ever met in America. American and had like a connection with somebody that doesn't. That isn't like, you know, Japanese is their first language. And I think that is kind of like a fascinating scene that I wanted more of. And I do think, you know, thinking about it more and us talking about it. There is a version of this film that, like, you know, I think Kurosawa and a lot of great directors work in the space of, like, most great films that are classics that are like two plus hours. You can tell most of those stories in 90 minutes. But really the core, like, what makes Kurosawa so great is how he finds a way to take a story. You can take 90 minutes and give it the breath, the depth, the character, the. The vibrance or even just the tragedy. That really deserves the breath. That really deserves the two hours, the. [01:21:57] Speaker C: Two and a half. [01:21:57] Speaker A: Or like in Seven Samurai's case, like, Matt's wonderful shirt. Three hours. Like, it's like, really pushing. [01:22:04] Speaker C: Yes. [01:22:04] Speaker A: I think there's a version of rap scene August that is two hours and is probably like, if it was made in the early 80s, maybe a fantastic version that is able to give gear. The parents in more of a kind of a moment to just sit with it. And there could be and could be a version of this where, like, if they had just, you know, specifically taken like a week of the song Summer, maybe the week of the Rhapsody, the week of the Memorial, and just focus the entire film on that. And then we can use each day like, there's all different versions of this where, like, there is. This movie has definitely has room to grow and has room to improve and whatnot. But I think overall the. The. The drama, the heart of the film, the cast itself and how the film looks like. I would argue, at least from what I've seen in his career, one of the craziest shots. It's not the craziest shot I've seen a Kurosawa film do is the eye in the sky that is like one of the wild. It just pops out of nowhere. Like, you know, what is being said to you about the mushroom cloud and how she saw it as a kid? It's like, this is what it kind of looked like to me. And in my head I'm like, what are we gonna. And then it's like just a big old eye. And I'm like, shit. That was not what I was expecting. Nothing in this film ever was going to, like, prep me for that. Like, it is, right? It is the quietest, sleepiest film out of the three. And it is like, it just pops that out of nowhere. But, yeah, yeah, I really. I really enjoy Rhapsody in August. I think for his second to last film. I think there's just a lot here to really enjoy. But there is also, like, again, I agree with both of you, there are flaws in the amount of development as well as more of the conversation, as well as the fact that, like, you know, really the climax of the film, you could say, is gear showing up and being like, no, I. There's no. There's no bad blood. I just want to know the family. Or the climax could just be the fact that the grandma's, you know, the brother dies and the grandma's never able to have that kind of him. You have that relationship anymore. And then ultimately leads her to regress into her trauma surrounding losing her husband, leading to a final. [01:24:24] Speaker B: Go ahead, finish. [01:24:25] Speaker A: No, you go ahead. [01:24:28] Speaker B: I was just gonna say that the climax is really when her umbrella turns inside out, because that's on the poster. [01:24:38] Speaker A: I mean, to me, like, I would even argue. I think. I think. I think that finale is fantastic. I think that final moments are fantastic. But it's also, yeah, final moments that I feel like are better than the overall film itself. Like, I think that scene itself is fantastic. But getting to that, you. I feel like if you tell you, like, yeah, this scene as a short film, like, this part is just immaculate. Really gets across what you really want of it. Everything before that, know, you know, viewer may vary in terms of how much that kind of really resonates with you and how it's like, yeah, this is really a slice of life about kids. Then at one point it becomes this. And it's like, yeah, like, it's. It's really. It's. It's. It's, I think, a very, you know, thought through conversation and, you know, very interesting themes and really good performances that ultimately could have, you know, could have passed into the threshold of greatness if given. Given more time to breathe. Or ultimately been told at a different period, like told maybe right before Ron. Maybe again, we. We will never know because those are alternate realities and we will never be able to see that. Maybe it's called Raps in September in those. But overall, I think it's like Rhapsody in August. I really enjoyed and I was really curious to get into our final film, which is truly the final film of both Kurosawa and Honda. A film that I think ultimately could even be, you know, considered even lower stakes in some ways than Rhapsody in August at times. But ultimately, I think comes together in a much more impactful, emotional way. Whether you put into the external kind of context of where occurrence Asawa and Honda were at the time of their career in terms of it being their final films. Or if you're just talking about, you know, the conversation about what the film is discussing, which is, you know, monadayo is, you know, short or at least in Japanese in a sense, kind of known for not yet or not ready. Really, the film is talking about like a retired professor that follows him around World War II and then post World War II, basically, you know, retiring as a professor, trying to find a new life as a writer, while also you're going through the war as well as, you know, his relationship with life post his career, life with his students, life with his relationship with life as he ages, with his students, his students now becoming some of his. His closest companions, as well as the conversation of, you know, what. What is, in a sense, without saying it out loud, like the meaning of life at its core. And, you know, Matadayo, I think at the time when it came to critics, there is, if you're using the kind of the. The idea that, you know, if you're doing the. Externally, you know, discussing this being curse how is last film. There might be some people that might think this film is like him talking about himself in a sense, as if he's this retired professor that is beloved by all. And it's just like, you know, he's not done yet. He wants to keep going. He wants to keep, you know, making stuff and whatnot. And I think a lot of people, when they heard that were like, you know, eye roll, are just like, all right, okay, settle down. But I think ultimately, I think what makes me not believe that that's the case is, is just the fact that, you know, I think, you know, Honda and Kurosawa and also Hayakin Uchida, who wrote this one, they just. There's this interesting idea of like, looking at these, you know, especially In a sense, an educational, you know, icon to, like a local icon to an educational space like a military academy that he was a professor for. And taking, like, taking this person that, like, you know, everyone has had at point, some. Some way, shape or form in their life. Not to this degree, maybe not, but maybe you have of someone who, like, really was impactful to you as a mentor or as a role model that, you know, was not related to you in any way that was in the education system or maybe in a job or whatnot. And really seeing, like, the effects of getting, you know, just realizing that they are a person themselves and realizing that a lot of their fear, like the fears and anxieties that you might have or like. Like the stresses that you might have. This role model that you never thought, like, oh, wait, they're people too. They're a person too. They get depressed, they get anxious, they get, you know, frustrated with things. And it is trying to figure out, like, how you process that on top of, you know, but, you know, processing that, but also understanding that, processing that doesn't take away from the impact and the beauty of what. What they gave you and what you ultimately have evolved into as a, you know, as someone who's in it, like, in this sense, an educator who is now, you know, touched the lives of generations without really having to teach all those generations at a certain point. And I think it's. It's a story that I was not expecting to be as, you know, engaging as I initially thought, because at a certain point, like, halfway through the movie. Movie. The movie ends up being about, like, a lost cat. Yeah, A good, like. [01:30:11] Speaker B: Like an all time. An all time cat cinema sequence, I would say. [01:30:16] Speaker C: Yes. [01:30:17] Speaker B: Incredible little, like, short film about a cat. [01:30:24] Speaker A: It's this kind of fascinating thing that I think is very human in this idea. Like, this is a professor who by this point in the story, because, like, when he gets retired. When he retires, he gets this place that he is. You know, this is where he's writing from now on because he retires, because he can. He's basically told he can make enough money off his books that he could just write books for the rest of his life. And so he just, like, finds a place out after. After school, after he's a professor. And it's this nice, beautiful house that, you know, like, is, again, still World War II. So a lot of the things about, like, air raids and also the conversation about, like, soldiers walking through the streets, because it's. I believe it's. Yeah, it's Tokyo. He like is living. He lives in Tokyo and you know, he goes through that. He loses his house through an air raid, ultimately ends up having to live in a shack behind his neighbor's house who also got attacked in an air raid. And this shack is a shack. It's not a Hollywood shack where it feels like it's like a two bedroom apartment that is being called a shack. It literally is like. [01:31:32] Speaker B: It's like a shed. Yeah. [01:31:34] Speaker A: It's like probably half of our. Of each. Each of our rooms, maybe even a quarter rooms. Like, it's like irrespective rooms. Like, it is something that is fascinating. [01:31:44] Speaker C: It's like a half car garage. Yeah, yeah. [01:31:48] Speaker B: Bicycle. [01:31:48] Speaker A: It's like this kind of. [01:31:49] Speaker C: Yes. [01:31:52] Speaker A: But you have a professor that is ultimately, you know, going through all these very hard, difficult life moments and is really taking it on the chin for the most part and is like, you know, really is like very much just, you know, appreciative that he can even just have a roof over his head and be with his wife. And you know, for a film that you feel like these dramatic moments and I think a lesser film would really amp up and just, you know, just make these moments super, like milk them to death. And these. And like Kurosawa and Honda just like, are like. [01:32:24] Speaker C: Nope. Like he's. [01:32:25] Speaker A: There's clearly some sadness of losing that house. There's clearly some stress of being like, will I ever get out of this shack? But at the same time, he's just appreciative that he has a place that he can sleep, a place that he could be with his wife, that she can be there. And as well as he can. He has food, he can write. That's all he can really worry too much about. [01:32:44] Speaker B: He has his boys, boys that look. [01:32:47] Speaker A: Out for him like they are you. This is the type of film where you're like, I want to live my life to the degree that I have these boys. I have these guys in my life that are breaking into my house to make sure my burglary, like my, my burglary alarm setups are all good to go. Are willing to like, make a house for me and ultimately do these things to kind of look out for me. And it's, I think, is, you know, at the time initially when we got to the point where he loses his cat. I can't remember his first cat's name. [01:33:22] Speaker C: First cat's name is Nora. [01:33:23] Speaker B: Nora. Yeah. Ally. [01:33:26] Speaker C: Yes. [01:33:27] Speaker A: Yes. This is what they say. But I think it's fascinating the. Truly the first thing that really gets under the Skin of our protagonist is losing the cat is realizing, understanding that like, you know, no one did anything wrong, no one is trying to hurt him, no one. You know, he didn't. He wasn't mean to the cat and the cat left. Like truly life just happened in a way where the cat left and he never came back. And it's almost like you're seeing this man who is, you know, for the constant amount of this film at this point, like half, like halfway of this two hour film, little over two hours really just taking in this beautiful like, you know, just trying to like take in the bright side of life during war torn World War II, Japan. And then once the. The war is over and he's ultimately in this place where he's in a nice calm. He can't control this and he's aware that he can't control getting the. Getting Nora back. But it's just his performance. Tatsuo Matsumura, who plays, who plays Uchida. Professor Uchida is. It's the same. I believe it might be based off of is because it looks like Uchida is a writer as well as the namesake for the lead. [01:34:57] Speaker B: Yeah. The film an adaptation of an autobiography. [01:35:02] Speaker C: Nice. [01:35:03] Speaker A: Okay, perfect. Yeah, so. Yeah, so. So it's probably just like out chation. I see. Okay, perfect. [01:35:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:35:13] Speaker A: But to really like, like M. Matsumura is just like. It's so funny to watch him be like a performance professor that is like, you know, for years and years that he gives off that energy that you were probably scared of him when you were growing up or you really thought he was funny in a professor sense. And then you get to be an adult and you start drinking with him and you start hearing more darker, maybe even kind of a dirty joke and more of a free spirit version of him and be like, oh, that is kind of like that energy of like when you see someone who used to like be. Who used to be your educator and you see them now and it's like, oh, this is. This is a fun. They. They are. They are a person who would have thought like it's like this. [01:35:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:35:53] Speaker A: Like he really like. Matsumura does a really good job of like really exemplifying to the audience why he is as beloved as he is without feeling like he's overdoing it. Like there is just an earnestness and a intellectual to this man that is like he's willing to have conversations about philos, like philosophical questions about just life, about love, about, you know, just how to like, you know how to Process just what's going on in Japan at the time and just. But still just really be like, I'm just glad I get to have beers with my boys and we make some horse meat for dude, which is phenomenal. Scene. [01:36:36] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:36:37] Speaker A: With the horse. The. That was. That was some. That was some good shit where the horse just looks at him. [01:36:42] Speaker C: Great. His whole thing, like the professor's whole. The way that he is able to just hold audience with his students and with his companions is just like, he's so it really demonstrates how gifted that character is at just holding their attention, entertaining them and everything. [01:37:06] Speaker A: An orator. [01:37:07] Speaker C: Orator. Yes, it is. It's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. I. If you don't. I'm gonna go on a couple of tangents real quick, if you don't mind. So the first one is that I think that in terms of a final film for him, this is nearly perfect. I think that it's a beautiful cap to the end of an unimaginably incredible career. And the tangent I'm going to go on is unrelated to all of this. It's just more of a thing that's always in my head whenever certain headlines come up. But this is his 30th or 31st movie, I think, and it's a powerful statement. It's a powerful examination of life. It's a powerful life affirming thing. Great. Then you have. And this is where I'm going off topic. You have like Tarantino, who two movies into his career is like, I'm only going to make 10 movies. And there's all this like, like, film bro, film Twitter conversation about what's his last film gonna be. Like, that bothers me so much because that's putting. Putting like this arbitrary finish line in front of you when the thing that you're doing is supposed to be making art. And I have no problem with Tarantino. Like, I love a lot of his movies. And I think he, like, I like Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was phenomenal. Like, and I'm looking forward to whatever his final movie is. But like, I just feel like it's such a weird thing to fixate on when the nature of making art, like this is supposed to be putting yourself into it and really, really like pouring yourself like putting in granted film as a collaborative medium and everything. But like when you're like an auteur or whatever, like you're putting yourself into the. Into the making of the art and like the. The good side of that is like having this be the end of a long and celebrated Career is amazing. Great. Also, we've talked about it earlier. He probably couldn't have made movies like this earlier in his career because of the lived experience and the life experience and knowing. Having that kind of just, like, awareness of, you know, his time is dwindling down. And then you have, like, modern day, like, Tarantino's like, oh, my 10th movie. I don't want. I don't want my 10th movie to be the critic. I'm gonna do something else. Like, I'll just say this openly. Fuck off. Like, I just. It really bothers me. So that's my small Tarantino tangent. Hate mail at the obsessive viewer. [01:40:22] Speaker B: I mean, I think to your point, and it makes it. I don't know, you have to have a certain appreciate. Appreciation for the ethos of just kind of like, working until your faculties leave you. You know, like, you're working until you don't have it in you anymore or physically incapable or you just up and die. You know, I know Kurosawa lived for five or six years after this film, but, you know, clearly, I mean, he was in his 80s. He, psychedelic, has had all but gone, you know, and here he is holding on because he just. He just needs to express something a little more, you know, just something he hasn't expressed yet about, you know, life and friends and relationships and things. And. Yeah, it is. It's to arbitrarily assign yourself a certain number of slots for your career and to, you know, throw in the towel like that. It's just. I mean, it's a totally different view of your own art, of, like, the art you produce. Yeah, one is, I create because I have to, and the other is kind of like, I, you know, am really good at this and want to leave a legacy that's clean and nice or whatever. [01:41:51] Speaker A: It really. I think that's phenomenal. Conversation starter, man. Because I do agree. The tangent, I think, is worthwhile in this conversation because it is something where it's like Tarantino shows a more modern kind of take on the romanticized version of getting out of the game at your. Yeah, and it's like this interesting thing because when. When it comes to art, when it comes to. If you're creating that art, when it is your peak, there is subjectively where most people would say, this is where your peak is at. But, like, when you talk about that, it is such absolute horseshit because there is so many things in your career where there is somebody out there that probably thinks. And there's probably very small. But, like, Mata Daio is the peak of Kurosawa's career. Because it's something that. It is kind of like he. It is a film that is hilariously having it inadvertently having those conversations about like getting out when the going like getting out before you get too old. Doing this and is literally called Not Yet Right. Is a conversation about a professor being like, he's not getting out of the game because he's too old. He literally stops being a professor because he's doing well in life. He feels like this is the next stage in his life and he wants to do this. And very much has a. It shows a lot too that this is following a man who by the end of the film is in his mid-70s. Yeah. And Matsumura, I believe was even older than Uchida supposed to be in the story. He was like 79. And there's a, there is a. There's like, there's just a youthfulness all the way through the film even to the end where it shows like this idea. Like stereotypically he should just be staying at home and never going out to, to drink or you know, just being out and having fun at parties and whatnot. But he's like, he wants to be with the people that he loves. He wants to. Not just. He doesn't. He's not coming out to get celebrated. He just wants to be able to celebrate with the people that he loves and the people that those people love and see the generations that he has touched in some way, shape or form, either directly or indirectly. And I think it's like that conversation where I think Tarantino is also, I think in that when he talks, talks about that, I think there's also this like, there's also that subtle factor of discussing the fact that usually with directors, especially with directors that go as long as Kurosawa or other directors that have long lasting, decade spanning careers is that the unfortunate truth is I think Tarantino is conversation about something like he really is like, I don't want to keep making these films to the point where I have to fight to get a film made in my 70s. Like I had to fight to get made in my 20s, 20s. Because unfortunately we are in a world where, you know, PTA has to fight just to get like final cut on one battle after another score. Says he has to use Apple just to get his films out. [01:44:46] Speaker C: He has to bounce around different streaming services to get his movies funded. [01:44:51] Speaker A: I mean, yeah, it's just like, I mean the Coen brothers basically did Netflix because it was like Buster Scruggs. Is because Netflix all that. Hell, it's wild to think the fact that, like, Fincher, a man who I would argue has had plenty of peaks, and that's like. I mean, even before the 2000s hit, like, literally his first. Like, his second, third, because his first film was Alien 3. So we're not gonna. But, like, he's just like, his. His first real, like, truly feels like Fincheresque film. Like his. I think. I think Seven the Game and Fight Club are all different peaks that I can, like, understandable is, like, if that's, like, your favorite thing or think that's the height of his career. That's literally the beginning of his career. But, oh, yeah, Fincher's next film is the Cliff Booth sequel to Once Upon a Time in Hollywood that I think it's ultimately he definitely wants to do. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's a part of it where it's like, if I do this for you, can I get Minehunter back? Like, that's, like, the crazy process right now that it feels like with a lot of directors where it's like they're. They're the directors that have, like, you know, right now, you. Because he's. You know, he's so big in the name right now because of, like, Superman and Peacemaker, where, like, Gun basically, you know, comes in the gate into the blockbuster scene and is now running DC's whole kind of production side of things. And then you have directors who are, like, the Autours, who are, like, still having to admit that, like, their directors, like, they probably got in the game knowing, like, oh, my gosh, like, Kurosawa made how many classics in his career. Mike. Nick. I mean, Mike Nichols, like. Like, dude made the Graduate, and he. He still had to fight for his films all the way up until his final film. Like, it's like. The truth of the matter is, unfortunately, is, like, they're. There is times where a great classic can get you a blank check and you ultimately coast for a while. But, like, ultimately, it depends on the market. It depends on, you know, how those films. [01:46:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:46:53] Speaker A: And, like, ultimately, I think the best part about this movie is that this film, Matadayo feels like a passion project. It doesn't feel. Yes. He wants this to be his final film. It doesn't feel like he is trying to be like, this is the start of my, you know, new era in the 90s to make Neil six more films. And then, like, he's like. He's. This is just. He's passionate, loves the story. He's going for it. And it just so happens this is his final film. And, yes, with that said, though, I will say the only part of the film that almost feels like he could have been aware that this might be his last, last project. If it's not, then it just is. It just works like this. Serendipitous. But, like, it is the final scene in the dream. Oh, yes, the dream sequence. [01:47:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:47:48] Speaker A: Every bit of that from the fact that it has that energy of, like, you take the stereotypical aspect of, like, he know he is dreaming. The film is not necessarily implying that he's dying, but it is like the idea, like, flat, like your life is flashing before your eyes. And the final scene you see of this retired professor is a child, is him as a child, almost like, reminding himself of, like, when he used to say Matadayo for the first time, when this became a phrase that became a part of his lexicon as a kid. And ending on this beautiful shot of him being mesmerized by the changing of the colors in the sky. And it just cuts to credits. Like, if that is not intentional, fuck. [01:48:38] Speaker B: It is, like, worked out. [01:48:41] Speaker A: It worked out like insane. [01:48:44] Speaker C: It was. That moment was like. So here's the thing, a little bit behind the curtain here. Like I said earlier, I hadn't seen any of these three movies before watching them for this. And because I'm me, I waited until the last minute, basically, and I. Basically, yesterday I had allocated. So two days ago, I watched Dreams, and then I was like, you know, I could squeeze in Rhapsody in August. But then I was like, well, no, I'm kind of tired. I have work tomorrow. You know, I do. I want to be fresh for it. And then I was trying to gauge how much time I would have yesterday if I could squeeze in both Rhapsody in August and Metadayu. And so I watched Rhapsody in August, and then I was watching Matadao, and I. Like, I just, Like, I was really into it. I was really, really into it. And I was like, okay, this is going to put me. Once I finish this, I'm gonna have to go directly to bed, and it's gonna be like 12:30 and all of that. So, like, I got to a point, like, right. Right when the cat. He loses the cat. I'm like, all right, I'm gonna stop it. I'm gonna go to sleep. I'm gonna squeeze it in after work. Yeah, but he stopped the saddest part. Oh, no. I know. But unfortunately, it was right at the start of that. So it was when the cat goes missing. So it's a good moment to kind of take a break from it. And I'm so thankful I did that because watching that last 50 minutes or so today, being alert, awake, was just magical. This movie is beautiful in so many different ways. And that ending, like usually, usually I'll like sit there and like take it in and I'll like watch credits and stuff. But like I was just kind of stunned because it does feel like a statement. Unintentional or intentional, what have you. That. Not necessarily that it is his final film. I think if he had, if he had wanted to make the statement that this is my final film, this is, you know, this is my version of Tarantino's 10th movie. He would have ended it with the sir, like the him as a kid, the kid saying like, I'm ready, like being like being ready for the hide and seek game. Instead he leaves it on Matadeo and he like gets up and he looks at the sky and it's like there's, there's that vibrance there that like, I don't believe the professor died in his sleep. I don't believe that that was his last dream. I think that's just saying that he's gonna carry on. And I adore that so much as a just powerful like button on this beautiful life affirming story. And the other tangent I want to go on really quick is at the time of this recording, recently the Cancan movie theater here in Indianapolis had several Creatures Kurosawa movies. And I was so pumped. They showed. Basically they showed, oh God, Yojimbo High and Low, Ikiru and Throne of Blood and Rashomon. No, not Stray Dog. I wish they would have. But they ended up showing five. But they. I was only able to go to two or three, three of them. So I was able to go to High and Low and Yojimbo and Throne of Blood, which was a bucket list thing for me because that's one of my favorite movies of all time. To get to see it in theater was great. But unfortunately I missed out on seeing Ikaru, which I love, but I've only seen a couple of times. And watching Matadeo made me think like, God, I freaking wish I would have gone to see Ikiru in theater. Because this movie feels like such an echo of, of Ikiru in a way that is like, it makes me want to go back and watch, watch that and then re. Watch this. Because Ikiru, from what I remember is this kind of just. It's this sad, sad movie about mortality and how this bureaucrat has wasted his life and he's trying to find meaning in life and he, he finds it from what I remember. But it is this, it is this just like look at modern Japan at the time. And then you contrast that with now. Let's see, it would have been how many years later? Like 40. Yeah, 41 years later. You've got this similar story of this man who's just kind of aging and he's becoming old, but he has the opposite kind of demeanor. [01:53:50] Speaker B: Made the most out of his. [01:53:52] Speaker C: Exactly. And I love that because Ikaru means to live and Matadeo means not yet. And I just love that kind of symmetry there. But I just really wish I could have seen Ikaru in the theater. I'm beating myself up over that. But anyway, the other thing about all of that is we're nearing the end of 2025 and I have noticed and I've talked about it on my podcast that my like current, like in the running for my top 10 is filled with movies that came out this year that are surprising. Like life affirming, positive movies. Like probably what's going to be in my number one movie is the Life of Chuck because Stephen King, Mike Flanagan, like it's a, it's a non starter. That's me. [01:54:38] Speaker A: It's phenomenal. It's probably in my top. [01:54:41] Speaker C: Yeah. But like that is such a beautiful, life affirming, life affirming movie. I love and I love the novella and everything. And then in my top like three is also going to be like 28 years later, which is a surprisingly coming, surprising, coming of age, life affirming movie. And then Superman has this positivity baked into it and this like goodness and it's just, it's so like, it's so heartwarming and touching to see like to experience movies like this where it's like, it's very much about, you know, celebration of life in these, this very beautiful way. And the other, the final thing I'll say and then I'll take a breath and maybe get a drink of water, is that this. I know that. I know that Kurosawa was a big fan of Frank Capra and like this feels like so Capra esque. It feels like it's a wonderful life. It feels like that type of just like examining life in, in a very specific way. And I just, I love it for that. I absolutely love it for that. I think it's, I think it's brilliant. [01:55:49] Speaker A: I love it comparison. I think Camper's A good way to thank you. [01:55:54] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:55:58] Speaker C: So pretty good. Not enough Richard Gere. [01:56:09] Speaker B: Only two white people in this one. I think it's two military policemen. [01:56:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:56:14] Speaker B: Come to answer a noise complaint, and then they see how cool Mr. Matadayo is, and they just turn tail and run. Sorry, Professor. [01:56:26] Speaker C: Yes, yes, yes, John. [01:56:29] Speaker B: Dr. John Matadayo, PhD. [01:56:31] Speaker A: He worked for that. What were you gonna say, Andy? [01:56:37] Speaker B: I don't know, but I. But I haven't really said much about this movie, so I'll just kind of chime in with my little my two cents or whatever. But I loved that I got to watch this movie as part of this trilogy, just because this movie being the last one in the trilogy, I, oddly enough, is like, in some ways a little bit of a blend of the previous two in that it's. It's all vignettes. It's just kind of like isolated moments from Uchida's life, and there's, you know, not really context given in between them. It just kind of. It jumps many years and different scenarios, different stages of life and things like that. And so you get this kind of not quite anthological, but episodic feel, much like dreams, where it's like, you know, 15 minute segments or whatever. But then it's also the sort of lower key, sometimes melancholic or bittersweet, but never, like, sobering, you know, meditation on the trials and tribulations of life, life that Rhapsody in August is doing. And it's just a really cool. As part of this trilogy that we kind of just self curated. It's a really nice capper to that. In addition to. For all the reasons Matt said, a great final film for Kurosawa, even though it wasn't. I think there's truth in what you said, Logan, that it doesn't feel like necessarily him saying this is my final film or trying to make it his final film. It just. It just, you know, the. The beauty and reflection inherent in the film just lends itself to being a really poignant last piece of art from, you know, our greatest filmmakers ever. [01:58:44] Speaker A: And, yeah, I will say, just for the audience as well as to you two, there is a part of me that apologizes that I cut straight to the cat in the conversation, because now I've realized that one thing I should have also addressed, because now we've talked about it more and I've thought about it more. This movie is funny. Like, out of the three movies here, Mata Dio is not a full blown comedy, but there are some straight goofy moments. In this movie that are just so hard, heartfelt and so well done. There's a whole extended sequence about the first, like, Matadayo kind of banquet. I would even argue that, like, you know, the. When the cat. When Nora is happening, that's where it gets its saddest. But like, there are still moments throughout the film that are even darkly comedic at times. Because I would even say, like, during, when Nora is, you know, lost and they're trying to find her, the cop that is explaining how, you know, like, oh, you know, sometimes black markets get cats and there's something with their furs. [01:59:44] Speaker B: And they just skin. Not. [01:59:46] Speaker A: Yeah, he's not scaring them. He's not trying to. He's just being like, I want to give you all the information I respect all I want to really help, so I'll let you know the context. And he's doing this with a smile on his face. And I was like, that's up. But that's really funny. [01:59:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:59:58] Speaker A: Because in my head, like, the best joke because the burglary scene is top. [02:00:03] Speaker C: Oh, like, that was amazing. [02:00:05] Speaker A: I was like, kurosawa, you're such a scamp. Yeah, you both are scamps. You. You know how to make this work. But in my opinion, and I think it's hilarious that you. Because Matt, you're saying that, like, you believe the ending is like, Is not him dying. Because of those specific moments in my head, really, I think it is just grounded level. Like, is the last final joke, I think, in the film or. One of the biggest laughs I got was when they look at the Monk at the 14th, 15th banquet and he's eating when they're taking him back to his house and they're like, are you going to do anything? He's like, he's. It's not. He's not ready for me. And he's like eating food, smoking a cigarette, like, basically saying, like, he's not dying, he's fine. It's like this. I love how that moment almost has. This moment was like, it's supposed to be, but also is like, very well aware. No, that's not what is. He's just. He's a little too excited. He's a little overexcited. There was cake. He doesn't usually eat cake. Blowing out a lot of candles, but. [02:01:02] Speaker C: And that's where so much of this movie works on so many. Like, this is. This is such a masterful, just accomplishment in terms of tone and, like, navigating that tone. So, like, yes, it is funny. It is light hearted. It is cheerful. It's also like bubbly and it's very like happy in terms of the situations that the characters find themselves in and everything. And having this demeanor for the professor, having him experience these hardships, but not having them be too life defining or too big because of the support of his network of friends and students and everything, like the, like the, the. The garden thing and getting, getting everything, all that in place, like, it's just great as a statement on the power of like, community and having. Having like a circle of people that love you and that you love and that you can count on and can count on you. It's just like this. It's. It's such a beautiful, just sentiment. But then when you get something that is the dramatic arc of the movie, the cat missing, it's presented as this very frantic thing like, oh, the professor needs us, something's happened, he can't stop crying, he's in shambles. And it's like the cat went missing. And that's something of a laugh line. But it's also, and maybe this is just me speaking as a cat owner, although, can you ever really own a cat? But like having that be this, just like this window into the man who's not the center of attention. He's not at this moment. He's not someone who's captivating an audience. He's showing his vulnerability and he's even uncomfortable doing that. He's saying that it's silly and everything and everyone around him is accepting of it and is willing to just work, work to try to find Nora and to try to try to like, like protect him in ways with that. I just think it's such a, it's such a beautiful movie in the way that it's, it's able to sell this as a, a horrifying experience for this man when earlier in the movie his house was like caught fire from an air raid. And like having, yeah, being firebombed and like having this be the dramatic arc is so amazing because it's him being vulnerable. It's him losing. Losing something that he loved. Not a material possession like a house or anything like that. He's lost a part of him. And like, I can relate to that because, you know, my cat. But it's just. It's a beautiful, beautiful movie. [02:04:03] Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's a part of him that he didn't necessarily want. It was something that came into his life and I think is the most, one of the most human aspects of the story. It's. It's it is a pet, but it's something that, like, he latched on to just, you know, very naturally. And then life happens in that. And that thing was gone. Lost. [02:04:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:04:24] Speaker A: We don't know if Nora passed away. We. We don't know if Nora died in, like, you know, got like, pushed. Like, we don't know what happened to Nora, but it's just the loss of that connection and realizing that I didn't know I could feel because, like, he does have that energy of, like, I didn't feel like I could love a cat as much as I do. And here I am just being sad, writing an entire poetry book for my cat I'll never see again, like a journal for Nora. And, you know, the. It is. Yeah, I just. It was very fascinating. Kind of like, I think we talked about this with the Shakespeare episode, but, like, my introduction with Kurosawa was Seven Samurai. It was, you know, in years and years of, like, trying to, like, get into this or that and like, probably hearing at one point the classic thing of, well, you know, if you know the Magnificent Seven, then you should know that that's really Seven Samurai. And, you know, realizing that, like, so much media that I grew up with that I had watched or maybe was aware of had some tie to Kurosawa, just an influence or maybe just straight up adaptation wise. And so, you know, and like, in college, that was the first thing I ever watched of, you know, Seven Samurai. I believe I used the Fuqua remake of the Magnificent Seven as like a. Hey, guys, come on over. I went to the local library, found a Criterion DVD version of Seven Samurai. Let's watch that together. We watched it and it just. That was it. That was like, all right, now I need to, like, kind of go with that. But I think what's, you know, I. Thinking about that more as we're talking about this is because my second film after that was his first film because I actually wrote a paper on him when I was doing a film theory. I was writing a film theory class, and I did two different kind of periods. One was, you know, one of the papers we had to do was write a auteur that made his films that were made before World War II and films that they made after World War II. And I was able to convince the. Convince the professor, hey, could I do. Could I do an artist that did, you know, films before, but also during World War II? And he's like, yeah, what are you thinking of? And I said, I would like to watch because I got access to it. Shan Siro Sugata, which is his first film, very first film. And then I used Yojimbo as like what he was making during World War II. And I think, you know, doing this trilogy because I, I thought it was gonna be really fun to really just like dive deep into films that like, usually when we talk about creators and auteurs in the filmmaking industry, we never, unless there's unfortunately tragedy attached to them. We don't really talk about the latter half or we don't really think about those kinds unless something like really pops off in that final act of theirs that like, really just gets you going. And like people constantly talk about. There's usually what we talk about, you know, unsurprisingly, when we talk about artists, when we talk about athletes, when we talk about directors, actors, like everything painters, like, we always talk about like, what is their peak in your head? And usually it's kind of like middle of their career or maybe something early on and then kind of like here and there. I thought it'd just be interesting to talk about a director that all three of us love. But talk about these three films that don't necessarily. Dreams gets talked about, but in terms of the other two films and just like this trio that really is like having this discussion that I think, you know, any film nerd has is like almost at a philosophical sense. Did they know that, you know, this was going to be the last three films they were going to make, this was going to be the last thing that their name would be attached to. And I think it's like that conversation is so fascinating because, you know, I think we would like to believe, especially with this case, that, you know, that was not the case. But it's hard not to watch Matadayo and just have almost put that external kind of feeling into it, that subjective idea that like, you know, you know, almost like a biopic sense that like, you know, he almost had a feeling that this could be the last one in reality. Like, yeah, it's very beautiful that this movie, you know, feels even at times more humanist or even more, you know, Capra esque than I would say most of Kurosawa's pause like popular works. Because, like, when I think of Kurosawa, I think of just how human, but also human even in its darkest sense where it's like, you know, Seven Samurai is very poignant, Yojimbo is very fun, but at the same time has very, you know, darkness to it attached. And I mean, last year when we talked about Throne of Blood, I mean, Ron the Bad Sleep well and I mean, this year, too, I think maybe. I don't know if it's. Maybe it's Andy's second time watching it, but this year, it was the first time I watched High and Low in Honor of Spike Lee. [02:09:23] Speaker B: First time. [02:09:24] Speaker A: And I was shocked at how that movie. Just how that movie ends, because there's not a sense to that ending, but there is a striking poignancy that comes with it that's very human, but not a very bright human energy to it. And so to kind of like, watch all these Kurosawa classics and have those in my brain and then get into these three and just see a creator that is brimming with just so much love and compassion and just, like, you know, vibrancy and youthfulness. Even in his 80s, at a time where we knew that, like, now we know that his vision was fading, things were becoming much harder than they were because that's just how life is. That's how aging is, and just how that is not taking away from his talent, from his love of the craft, and from just, like, being like, yeah, not yet. I'm going to make another one. And then. [02:10:18] Speaker C: Yep. [02:10:18] Speaker A: I mean, that's Monadia. Like, it is just. There's just so much to that film that I feel like, you know, caps off a career that is just brimming with so many different places to jump in. It's like basically throwing a stone in the curse Kurasawa Pond. You're gonna be digging for that stone forever. Like, you just have so many places you could start off with. And I think it also shows a lot. The. I think a lot of these three films also show that his relationship with Honda, who Honda was very much known in his career as very humanist as well. Like, there are very slow, beautiful, methodical moments that I have no doubt the Kurosawa can definitely do by himself. But I feel like the. The comparison, having Honda attached really does amplify that importance more. Like, apparently, like. Like in Rhapsody in August, there's a whole scene where you watch ants just go up a flower as Clark and the youngest grandchild just, like, watches just nature happen. And apparently that's entirely Honda, because apparently Kurosawa had no patience. Apparently Kurosawa is like, I want to do this, but I do not have the patience. Can you please do this? And he's like, yeah, of course. And he just. The way that it happens, I feel like that relationship, you know, shows that, like, you know, going into that final film, how important that community is. Like you said, how much. How important. Yeah, it is just to be kind to yourself, to really just embrace. [02:11:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:11:43] Speaker A: The things that you've always wanted to do or also embrace the fact that life happens and it sucks and it could be sad, it could be scary, but, like, as long as you have that support system, everything will be okay. [02:11:56] Speaker C: Absolutely, yeah. [02:11:57] Speaker A: For the Twilight of Kurosawa, like, genuinely, I couldn't be happier with how these three films, even with Rhapsody in August being as flawed as it is, like, I'm really. [02:12:06] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [02:12:07] Speaker A: Was taken aback by how Matadayo still just captures. Even when he's 50, he's a half. He had a half a century's worth of a career, and to end it like that, so simple but so beautiful, is like, how could. How is that not. Kurosawa in a nutshell? [02:12:27] Speaker B: Had to get one more in there. [02:12:30] Speaker A: But that's it. That's the Twilight of Kurosawa. That is three very interesting, gorgeous films that I would. That I would recommend. I mean. [02:12:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:12:42] Speaker A: How do you throw. How do you both feel? Would you recommend them? [02:12:46] Speaker C: 100%. Yeah, I. Yeah, go ahead, Indy. [02:12:50] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean, I certainly would even, you know, I'm not that high on. On Rhapsody in August, but, you know, it's. I was pleasantly surprised just with. With delving into the lattermost leg of Kurosawa's career just because you don't hear about these films very much. Dreams to some extent more than the other two. But even that one still kind of feels like a, you know, a sleeper amidst his vast career. So it was really nice to go into that leg of his career that you don't hear much about and come out, like, just really impressed that old man Kurosawa still fucking had it. [02:13:36] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely. And it's also. Yeah. It also speaks to what Logan said about the criterion effect of it all. Like Matadeo and Rhapsody in August are kind of hard to find, essentially, because they're not Criterion. [02:13:53] Speaker B: Because they never got Janest. [02:13:56] Speaker C: Exactly. But what I will say to get a cheap shot in. Once again, just imagine, if you will, Akira Kurosawa deciding to tap out at the top of his game in 1949 with Stray Dog, his 10th movie. And then never making. Yeah. And never making Rashomon or Ikiru or Seven Samurai or Throne of Blood or. [02:14:23] Speaker B: Yojimbo that most people know him for. [02:14:25] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. [02:14:27] Speaker A: He wouldn't have worn all those bucket hats on set. [02:14:30] Speaker C: Exactly. [02:14:32] Speaker A: Wore for decades. [02:14:36] Speaker C: For. This was great. [02:14:38] Speaker A: Oh, my Lord. Of course it's been great. Thank you again. Yeah. And thankfully, this will not be the last Kurosawa episode. We do have others in polite toe, and we will definitely bring you into the loop when that happens. [02:14:50] Speaker C: I am very excited to see what you guys have planned because that was the other thing. I neglected to mention this because I don't want to sound like. Like, sometimes when I have to watch a movie for a podcast, namely my own, like, because I do two, two movies each each episode, sometimes it's a little bit of like, okay, I really need to eke out like, four, five hours to watch two movies so that I can talk about them. And like, I even said earlier that, yeah, I had to really, like, I had to split watching Metadao into two sittings. But the moment, like, I sometimes, because of the way my brain works and my anxieties and everything, it's like, oh, my God, I'm gonna run out of time. I'm like, like, ADHD is kicking in. I can't. Like, I'm waiting until the last minute. I need to do this. And then I get, like, really annoyed at myself because it's like, okay, now I need to just hurry and watch these. But, like, starting, like, I watch these in chronological order and starting with dreams, it's just. It was different. It was different for me watching these for a podcast because it's Kurosawa. And just like, it was like, oh, I'm. I'm just. I'm opening my eyes to three Kurosawa movies I'd never seen before. And so, yeah, it was a blast. Even though I still waited until the last minute, but it was still incredible. And I appreciate you guys having me on to talk about these movies and giving me the excuse to finally fill these blind spots in my Kurosawa viewing so that now I can wear my Seven Samurai shirt with even more pride knowing that I've watched three more Kurosawa. [02:16:28] Speaker B: Movies and you can get Richard Gere's face printed on the back of it. [02:16:33] Speaker C: Exactly. That's what I'm gonna do. Yeah, I'm calling off work tomorrow night. That's what I'm doing. I'm gonna find a screen printing place and get it done. [02:16:45] Speaker B: Well, Matt, it was a pleasure having you on, and I can't wait to have you back for the Twilight of Tarantino. [02:16:50] Speaker C: No, Jesus Christ. You know, honestly, that would be fine. [02:16:55] Speaker A: Like, like I said, Tarantino trilogy. I'd probably do. [02:17:02] Speaker C: Like, I don't mind Tarantino. Yeah. [02:17:04] Speaker A: But it's like, okay, yeah, but geez, how many. How many times someone say, you know, his 90s run his first three films pretty great. Like, it's. It's one of those things. But, yeah, Matt, thank you so much. This has been. Of course. [02:17:20] Speaker C: Thank you, guys. Yeah. [02:17:23] Speaker A: And thankfully, this is just the start of our November episodes. So, you know, we tackled October with our Toxic Avengers sequels as well as the Tron trilogy. And. No, now. Now that we've discussed the Toilet of Kurosawa, now we're going to talk about a director who has had, honest to God, a hell of a fucking run for the last decade. In 2015, this director came out with the film that while it didn't win any Oscars, I believe at the time, it had a lot of buzz at festivals. It had some stars in it that really got people going and ultimately thought, like, this guy has some. Something here. I wonder where he'll get at this point. And, you know, plenty of Oscars later. So many different actors being involved in their works. In honor of, you know, Yorgos Lanthimos's latest film, Begonia, I believe. Is that how it's pronounced? [02:18:18] Speaker B: That's how I've been saying it. [02:18:19] Speaker C: Yeah, I think so. [02:18:20] Speaker A: I've been saying it. [02:18:21] Speaker B: No, it's pronounced bug on you. There's a bug on. [02:18:25] Speaker A: Bug on you. There it is. In honor of his latest film, his third film with Emma Stone, and will no doubt be one, probably 10 more by the time we think about doing another Lanthamos. But we decided we to honor of that, we are going to be doing the rise of the Greek director's career. And that, I believe. Are we starting with Kineta on that? Is it Kineta in 2005, 2009, or is it Dog Tooth? Oh, nine. [02:18:55] Speaker B: Dog Tooth, yeah. [02:18:56] Speaker A: Beautiful. So it's. So we're doing. Because the director, you know, he has a career for at least I think, a decade or two before getting into, like, the films that really get him there. But we're gonna be tackling 2009's Dr. 2011's Alps. And then the film that I think really got people excited about where this guy could go, which is 2015's the Lobster. And a film that I haven't seen in a decent. I think since it came out in theaters, it's been a hot minute. I've even seen Killing of a Sacred Deer. That's another one of his that, like, people have really all gush about. And I've never actually seen the movie. [02:19:35] Speaker B: One day physically sick. [02:19:40] Speaker A: But you didn't pass out in the theater, though, so that's good. [02:19:43] Speaker B: Got close. [02:19:48] Speaker A: But yeah. Tune in on November 15th when we discuss the Rise of lanthimos. And again, Matt, thank you so much. [02:19:55] Speaker C: Of course. Thank you, guys. Yeah, I can't wait to hear you guys. Lanthimos episode. He's a director that I. I have such a weird, like, relationship with his work because he's so interesting, but it. The. The weird tone in so much of his movies, like, puts, like, makes me uneasy and, like, it's hard to watch in a weird way outside going from. [02:20:23] Speaker A: Seeing poor things in theaters to kinds of kindness in theaters. Oh, my God. Night and day. I understand completely. [02:20:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [02:20:32] Speaker A: Yeah. But as always, I'm Logan. [02:20:34] Speaker B: So wash. And I'm Andy Carr. [02:20:37] Speaker A: Thank you. [02:20:37] Speaker C: And I'm Matt Hurt. [02:20:41] Speaker A: And that is Matt Hurt. And thank you so much for listening. Bye.