Episode 131: The Millennium Hamlet Trilogy

[00:00:19] Speaker A: I mean, just imagine like he does the talking to the skull scene. I'm specifically talking about the Branagh one because since the Branagh one has the most unabridged flashbacks, cutaways, dissolves. Just imagine if when he's talking about Yorick, his jester, and they cut to him as a child, imagine instead of being that jester, there it was just Tom Cruise's Digger. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Tom Cruise is Digger as Yorick, just a tiny. [00:00:50] Speaker A: Like a tiny Prince Hamlet hanging around old, chubby Tom Cruise and makeup with his animatronic cat. [00:00:58] Speaker B: Yeah. And then Hamlet wistfully recollecting on him [00:01:03] Speaker A: and he just has the skull and it just looks like Tom Cruise. Like someone put a mask of Tom Cruise on top of the skull. Oh, my gosh. Hello, everyone. [00:01:12] Speaker B: We can dream. We can dream. [00:01:14] Speaker A: We can dream. Honestly, just. Yeah. If you couldn't tell when this episode's being recorded, Digger just got a trailer. Then I guess the highly anticipated. What is Tom Cruise doing after Mission Impossible film? And it's truly one of the weirdest curveballs I think that man could have ever done. Which I guess, hey, as a man who loves curveballs, artistically, good on him. [00:01:37] Speaker B: But yeah, I mean, you know, about time. Non action thriller Cruise. [00:01:44] Speaker A: Yeah, well, yeah, because people have been asking, I don't know how many people have been asking, but like, you know, the magnolia days, kind of like the [00:01:52] Speaker B: dramatic, like, does he still have that in him? Is he still interested? [00:01:55] Speaker A: Is he just going to be old for the rest of his career? Like play older? That he actually is. Again, another thing that's crazy about Digger is Sandra Houler. What a fucking career. Going from the Anatomy of a Fall to Zone of Interest to Project Hail Mary to this release wise. Yeah, and she looks like she's having a fun time with this. I even think she's. She might be doing an American accent in the trailer. [00:02:25] Speaker B: I don't really know, but I don't remember. [00:02:27] Speaker A: It's a wild cast. But Digger, unfortunately, is not an adaptation of Hamlet. So we are done talking about it. Hello, everyone. Welcome to our trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan. [00:02:38] Speaker B: So I'm Andy Carr. [00:02:39] Speaker A: And on our trilogies, we take a trio of films where they're tied by cast and crew thematic elements or just numerical order, and we discuss the good, the bad and the weird surrounding them. And today, to start off August, we decided we had two trilogies in mind for this month that were kind of ones that if we've had two trilogies on our spreadsheet of trilogies that have been there for a long time. And we thought since August was a perfect ground to kind of bring out the ones that we've been highly anticipating. Just really wanted to talk about and really try because it's truly odd in their own ways. We thought that the first one to do in August would no doubt be the Millennium Hamlet trilogy, which, in case you don't know or need a reminder, leading into the millennium, into the 21st century. In the last decade of the 20th century, in the 90s, there were three different major motion picture versions of Hamlet, all I believe, being in some way, shape or form American productions. There were joint British productions as well. But the three that we are talking about today is Franco Zeffirelli's Hamlet from 1990 starring Mel Gibson. Kenneth Branagh's Hamlet from 1996 starring Kenneth Branagh, and then 2000's Hamlet directed by Michael Almeda starring Ethan Hawke. And it was crazy when we decided to do this because when we, you know, again, we've talked about on the pod, but when we discussed what trilogies to do when we did this very early in the year, neither one of us would have probably realized the fact that, you know, even though it has no real tie in to anything kind of releasing this year, about a month or so after we chose this trilogy, Hamnet being a historical fiction, kind of telling of why Hamlet is the way that it is as a play, won a bunch of Oscars. Won some Oscars as well as at around the same time, there is in fact yet another adaptation of Hamlet that is out this year that is modern day, starring Riz Ahmed. And so, of course, you know, serendipitous, if you want to say. Or also just the fact that Hamlet never dies, I guess, in any way, [00:04:50] Speaker B: shape or form, has never been cooler. Except the last time he was really cool. He's back in the zeitgeist. [00:04:58] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, again, for, you know, with Shakespeare plays, especially with adaptations, I don't necessarily think I can say with full confidence that this is his most adapted story, because I would have to assume Romeo and Juliet is up there. [00:05:11] Speaker B: Yeah. If not number one numbers, but it's probably between those two. [00:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:17] Speaker B: Beth, maybe. [00:05:17] Speaker A: But yeah, which is funny too, because the first one we're talking about today by Franco Zeffirelli, he being a part of Hamlet is kind of serendipitous in his own way because he was involved with the 1968 Romeo and Juliet, which is kind of like the most iconic version of that film for the longest of times, as well, as having an adaptation, I believe, of Taming of the Shrew. [00:05:38] Speaker B: Right. [00:05:39] Speaker A: Which if you haven't read Taming of the Shrew, if you have seen the film 10 Things I've Hate about yout, that is a modern adaptation of Taming of the Shrew and, you know, also. [00:05:49] Speaker B: Also a 90s Shakespeare film. [00:05:51] Speaker A: Yes. God. Another thing too is when Andy and I were talking through all three, because we didn't watch these together, we had different. You know, we both have been busy this summer. And also the fact that all three of these films together is about eight hours. [00:06:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:07] Speaker A: Because our middle film, Kenneth Prana's Hamlets, we're kind of gonna. Once we talk about, of course, if the. The premise of Hamlet per se, we're gonna be popping back and forth. [00:06:15] Speaker B: We're not really gonna plot summari film [00:06:18] Speaker A: because they're all the same. But the Branagh film is the most unabridged adaptation that has ever been created because. [00:06:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it might be the only. [00:06:26] Speaker A: Yeah, unabridged. It combines the first Folio and the second, like, you know, addendums from the second Quarto, which are like some of the earliest versions of the play that we still are aware of. [00:06:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:39] Speaker A: And turns it into. While 90s Hamlet and 2000's Hamlet are both, you know, around the two hour mark. 90s Hamlet's about 210, while 2000's Hamlet is like 150. Brought us Hamlet is four hours, like three minutes. And you can definitely feel it. But it also is kind of fascinating because watching that film in comparison to the other two, considering what they cut and also what they speed through. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:07] Speaker A: Is kind of fascinating. But yeah, to start it off, when it comes to Hamlet, Andy, do you. How many times. Or maybe that's being too generous. Have you ever read all the way through Hamlet? [00:07:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I read it in my senior literature class and we basically did a roundtable reading of it, of the whole play as a class. I might have been Hamlet. I was a major character. I don't know if I was Hamlet. But yes, I read it then. I don't know that I've read the whole thing since. Bits and pieces. I've seen other adaptations and of course half the movies that have ever been made are inspired by Hamlet. So, yeah, pretty much. You know, Hamlet has been around in my world. I wouldn't describe myself as like a Shakespeare nut. I don't know about you, but I'm really not like, I'm not somebody who goes to see a lot of Shakespeare productions if there's a major motion picture adaptation of a Shakespeare play. Chances are I will see it because it's probably got some big names in it and is gonna be up for some awards and all that. But, yeah, I don't. I don't necessarily have, like, a strong personal relationship to Hamlet or Shakespeare in general, but, you know, it is one of those things that, you know, Shakespeare is an interesting study as. As an influence on cinema just because, you know, obviously so many films are bountifully inspired by his work and his writing, but also, like, just in terms of pure, raw adaptations of his work on screen, like, it's. There's so many. And it's, you know, it's kind of the perennial source of inspiration for filmmakers. They're all, you know, somebody's always doing their take on Romeo and Juliet or Hamlet or McMahon. Beth. [00:09:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:13] Speaker B: And, you know, so it's all. It's. It's fascinating to me to kind of look through and see, like, okay, what did this guy do with this versus that person? And we've talked about Shakespeare on the pod before with Kurosawa's three takes. Yeah, he did a. A loose, not necessarily adaptation, but an took inspiration from Hamlet. So we have a little bit of history with Hamlet on the pod. [00:09:37] Speaker A: Yeah, and that one. Yeah, that one is, I would argue, better than at least one of films on this list, if not two. But yeah, Shakespeare is one of those playwrights. One of the most iconic playwrights in just, I think, Western civilization in general, where it's just kind of like when you have the conversation about him, it's like you're not having a conversation with someone who isn't at least aware of who that is. [00:10:02] Speaker B: Right. [00:10:02] Speaker A: Whether it is to be or not to be or Juliet or even Othello or Midsummer Sight Dream. So many of his works have been brought to life and have been redone and have been put in on stage for years and years and years to the point. I mean, literally, I think this year, hilariously enough, or maybe last year, Tilly Ride Film Festival did, like, a meeting of the Hamlets and got like, Andrew Scott, I believe, right now on letterboxd, they have a documentary about Oscar Isaac playing Hamlet. [00:10:39] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:10:40] Speaker A: Which, of course, Oscar Isaac was there. And Ethan Hawke, which we'll talk about later about his performance. The funniest thing, too, is that in that film festival, I saw a little bit of it. Like, Ethan Hawke just would not stop praising how good Andrew Scott is. And then when Andrew Scott gets up and starts to talk about Ethan Hawke, his immediate response is you better say something nice. Which we'll get to when it comes to his Hamlet, because his Hamlet is, I would say, the most 2000s you can expect, like late 90s 2000s interpretation of Hamlet. But it is truly fascinating in some way. Yeah. And it's kind of crazy too, because, I mean, one of the best parts about this trilogy. And I think one of the things that really got us excited about it is, I mean, at least I don't know about you with your senior year, but like, you know, throughout high school, I think I had seen initially the to be or not to be speech from Branagh's version because I could never forget that Mirror hall to save my life. The dining room ceremony, fencing stage, the [00:11:43] Speaker B: great multi purpose room of Elsinore, the [00:11:46] Speaker A: great studios in Britain they shoot that in. But then I think my senior year of high school is the same situation as you where we went through it and I remember watching the Trabi or Matvey speech from Gibson's version. [00:12:02] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:02] Speaker A: Because of it being like, you know, being constantly told that when it came to the 90s hamlet, it was like, you know, Gibson film is technically more period accurate, kind of more of what it would actually look like at that time. Because it's so funny about that, you know, Hamlet being adapted so many times. It is kind of like hilariously by that point in Hamlet in terms of just media in general, especially with films, just going back to what this would kind of be, what it would look like when. If Hamlet actually happened. [00:12:31] Speaker B: Sure, yeah. [00:12:32] Speaker A: It's hilarious how you just watch it like, well, this is actually cool. I mean, committed to the time period. But also I kind of understand why people have, I guess, liberties with everything [00:12:41] Speaker B: surrounding, yeah, the Dark Ages in Europe are not the most visually exciting palace. [00:12:50] Speaker A: If you're going into this episode not really knowing what Hamlet is, the fastest kind of plot synopsis I can give you is that it's about a prince in Denmark who is depressed because his father has died and his uncle has married his mother and has become the new king of Denmark. He has been told by one of his best friends and a bunch of guards that really respect him that, hey, we have been seeing a ghost around town, around this castle that looks a lot like your dad. [00:13:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:18] Speaker A: Hamlet goes, well, I'm grieving as fuck and that would do anything for me, I think. And maybe it's not a good way to move on, but I want to talk to this guy. Turns out it is his father and the ghost tells him that he was killed by his brother. So the uncle who is now the king killed the old king. And now it becomes a story about revenge. And for the rest of this, for the rest of the play, it is basically Hamlet going through a bunch of psychological trauma in terms of just, like, going fully mad because he doesn't know fully if he can. Basically, for the second and third act of the film, it is him trying to scheme a way to show basically to get his uncle in a trap to show that he is, in fact the snake who killed his father. [00:14:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:04] Speaker A: And then, you know, at the same time being like, yeah, but also, I'm doing this because a ghost told me to do it. And I could just be absolutely fucking crazy. I could just. I could just really hate my uncle and just tell. I just might have just told myself to do it. [00:14:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:17] Speaker A: And then once the second, third acts happen, there's an intermission. And then acts four and five were kind of like a little bit. Not a huge time jump, but just enough of a time jump that, you know, events that happen in two or three, which we'll talk about later, lead to Hamlet kind of being sent to England. [00:14:34] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:34] Speaker A: He finds a way to come back, and then it becomes kind of a whole plot of how do we get rid of Hamlet? Because he's too much of a menace. [00:14:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:42] Speaker A: And a danger in some way, shape or form. And that's pretty much it. Like, it's. [00:14:46] Speaker B: Well, and to make matters more complicated, while Hamlet is, like, kind of going insane with his revenge plot this whole time, he's also, like, feigning insanity to people to try and, you know, throw them off his trail or distract them or whatever. [00:15:02] Speaker A: He's basically, as he's scheming out into opening Zane, which leads to some of the more kind of like, fun. Kind of fun, darkly comedic parts of the film, of the narrative. Because it's mainly Hamlet being in, like, a full blown. Well, I don't have to do any kind of social interaction or any kind of social construct. Rules wise. I can just be an absolute asshole to you and freak you out and then just, like, not care because I'm the prince. What are you gonna do? Say, I need to go, Go away, You're not my dad. And leads to, like, you know, some of the best. Again, the reason why Hamlin has been such, you know, I think a beloved play and one of, you know, even though it's Shakespeare's longest plays, one of the most fun ones, I think, for a lot of actors to do is because, like, there's so many great proses there's so many great little monologues throughout the characters that are there, even the minor characters. There are minor characters in Hamlet that have probably five or six lines and they're just like a blast. [00:16:03] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, there are at least three, two or three soliloquies in Hamlet that are among Shakespeare's most like in all of his work. [00:16:16] Speaker A: The most known, like I was joking in the beginning about Tom Cruise's digger being the skull that Hamlet talks to, but literally the. The Shakespearean actor talking to the skull is from Hamlet. [00:16:27] Speaker B: Yeah. It's an iconic image. [00:16:29] Speaker A: It's actually a phenomenal speech or it's a phenomenal monologue. It's a great moment and it genuinely is just one of those things where it's funny to think that out of the three of these films, I think it's only in the Branagh one in full. [00:16:41] Speaker B: Yeah. I think because. Yeah. [00:16:42] Speaker A: Because they. [00:16:43] Speaker B: Hilariously, there is a skull scene in the Gibson one. [00:16:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:48] Speaker B: But it's not, I don't think the full. [00:16:50] Speaker A: No. Yeah. Because the thing about what's so funny is, you know, going into this knowing that the bra film is going to be four hours long, I think both of us were like, okay, so for the Gibson and the Hawk versions, they are half the length. [00:17:02] Speaker B: Yeah. They're making some concessions. [00:17:04] Speaker A: Yes. What are the concessions going to be made? And honestly, one of the biggest things that I think is kind of a curse, at least for the Gibson film and maybe a later part of Hawk's film in the third act is the fact that while Brana's film takes all five acts and I think gives every single one of those acts time to breathe. [00:17:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:23] Speaker A: In a way that is like truly. Yeah. And really just let a scene sit. [00:17:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:29] Speaker A: Which is something that is, you'll be surprised to hear, or maybe not at all surprised to hear that this movie didn't, like Branagh's version, didn't really make much money in theaters. [00:17:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:39] Speaker A: Because of how long it was and how just, you know, despite how well casted that film is, it is still a four hour film. [00:17:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:49] Speaker A: It is one of the law. I think it's still well regarded as one of the longest, if not the longest Hollywood produced film to be released like it is. Because I think before that would be Gone with the Wind. And so it's like, it is something where, you know, I can absolutely won't speak for Andy, but I can absolutely just, you know, admire and really respect Brana's commitment to the decks to commit to. We're doing this in full. Even if it's four hours. [00:18:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:20] Speaker A: I will say by Acts 4 and 5, by post intermission, you start to be like, okay, yeah, I get it. [00:18:29] Speaker B: Yeah. You know. Yeah. Appreciable and admirable is right. Because, like, you know, with the great works of human history, like, you inevitably at some point want somebody to do kind of of an unadulterated sort of, you know, full quintessential version of something. [00:18:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:51] Speaker B: You know, and. And that was very clearly and in large part successfully what Brano was doing with his. And so, you know, the. It's an admirable feat and he largely pulls it off. But, yeah, man, there is something to be said for the definition of adaptation. Meaning change, meaning fit your environment or your medium. [00:19:18] Speaker A: Well, Andy, he changed the time period. [00:19:20] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:19:21] Speaker A: They made it late 18. Like 1800s England. [00:19:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:25] Speaker A: And not 1600s Denmark. [00:19:27] Speaker B: Yeah. And so there is. [00:19:28] Speaker A: So technically, he did adapt something. [00:19:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So, you know, our tipping our hats to both Zeffirelli and Almereta for not making us sit through 12 hours of [00:19:40] Speaker A: hamlet at the same time, though it is kind of like, because Andy did it chronologically, he watched Gibson's first. Yeah. I decided to bite the bullet. And I was like, if the Brana version is unabridged, exactly what they want people to think of as the full text. Yeah, you know what? Fuck it. I'll take two days. I'll watch like the first three acts as a movie. That's two and a half hours. And then I'll watch acts four and five as a another day, and then I will kind of use that as a template to how I feel about the other ones. And I'll get back to that. When it comes to actual Brana interpretation, when I went from that to Gibson, it really is night and day in so many ways. Mostly because of pacing. [00:20:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:27] Speaker A: Because let's say, Hypothetically, in the five act structure of Hamlet, Branagh takes at least 20 minutes per big moment in that film to cut it down. Zeffirelli's version basically cuts all the big moments to like 10 minutes at most. [00:20:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:43] Speaker A: And it really does cuts out a [00:20:46] Speaker B: decent amount of stuff from the story [00:20:48] Speaker A: because I would have to say about an hour into Branagh's version is when the ghost says that I've been killed by your uncle. While as I think in the Gibson version, it's 20 to 25 minutes in. And then they kind of, you know, just kind of follow that structure as you go in. And the funny thing about Gibson's version is while. Yeah, I do Commend committing to being like, all right, we're gonna. We're gonna adapt it so it's at least at movie length or like what a standard movie will be in this kind of level. The funny thing about that, though, is that when you do that, that means you should probably make things a little bit more interesting, whether it's the visuals or the blocking or even the performances. And I have to say, visuals. While I think the cinematography has some great moments, especially with the shadows, I definitely like any kind of the night shots that we get and the really stark shadows. The ghosts showing up, the ghost, the father, basically just sitting at the top of the castle, just vibing. Such a great shot. There's a great. There's a great two or three moments in the film where Gibson's shocked face is obscured by shadows in some way or just very intensely lit amongst the shadows. But other than that, the blocking. Most scenes are usually. If someone starts at the very top, they circle all the way down, then they come all the way back up. [00:22:13] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's a lot of. I mean, it's a lot of Middle English stonework interiors that are just kind of gray and blobby, I'm pretty sure. Very flatly lit. [00:22:29] Speaker A: The whole conversation about what the ghost told Hamlet kind of begins with him going all the way up the castle and then going all the way back down. That is the kind of blocking you have in this film compared to the later ones. [00:22:44] Speaker B: Not a ton of flair in the technical or visual department in this one. Certainly the other two are a lot more. I don't know. Bombastic is not necessarily the word. [00:22:58] Speaker A: I would, honestly. For Bronhes. Yes. [00:23:00] Speaker B: Yes. [00:23:00] Speaker A: For bronze, for sure. [00:23:01] Speaker B: But both of them have a lot more, I think, creative flair with the aesthetic of their films than this one does. [00:23:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:09] Speaker B: You know, there's something to be said for, like, doing a very stripped down, quote, unquote, at least period realistic version. But. Yeah, especially doesn't make for the most exciting version of this story, which is a very dynamic and colorful. [00:23:23] Speaker A: Did Olivier do Hamlet on top of Othello? I'm trying to remember what the classic. [00:23:27] Speaker B: Wait, what do you mean, on top? Oh, just both of them. [00:23:29] Speaker A: I thought he did both. [00:23:30] Speaker B: He did Hamlet. Yeah. Olivier did Hamlet in 48. [00:23:34] Speaker A: Yeah, 1948. Who did Othello then? I was trying to remember because I thought he did both. [00:23:39] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:23:39] Speaker A: OThello. Not the 95 version. Stop it. Classic film. You know, this is. You're getting this in real time. [00:23:48] Speaker B: Yeah. 1965 is it. [00:23:51] Speaker A: Olivier, who is it? [00:23:54] Speaker B: I think so. [00:23:55] Speaker A: It is. [00:23:56] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. [00:23:59] Speaker A: I can't look at it. I looked at it for five seconds and I was uncomfortable. [00:24:02] Speaker B: Darkest black face I think I've ever seen. [00:24:05] Speaker A: And at that point, it is. I. God, now I won't be able to not think of that. [00:24:12] Speaker B: Yeah, you're gonna dream about blackface Olivier now. [00:24:15] Speaker A: It's gonna be a sleep paralysis demon at this point. But, yeah, at this point in just filmmaking in general, in terms of film history, Olivier had already done two of the most iconic Shakespeare plays and created basically. Well, these are the classics. This is the classic adaptation of these films. And so, of course, going as Zephyr, Elliott's being like, yeah, we're just gonna make it more grounded, I guess. There's kind of this, you know, a grounded Danish area that is in the 1600s. And it all kind of feels like, you know, this isn't your daddy's Hamlet. Yeah, in a way, shape or form a lot. I mean, hilariously, I think 2000's Hamlet does have a little bit of that energy. Not in the same way, but it's funny how both 90s and 2000s Hamlet does feel like. This isn't your insert here version of Hamlet. Well, as Branagh's is, this is exactly what you think Hamlet looks like in your head. And I think the biggest thing about 90s Hamlet, I think, really drags the film. I think this is something Andy and I have talked about off mic a little bit, is the fact that two of the film's major characters, I would say, are sorely misgassed. And I would have to say, and it might be controversial, I don't know, but I'd have to say it is, in fact Mel Gibson as Hamlet and Glenn Close as Gertrude. [00:25:34] Speaker B: Yeah, both of them are off. [00:25:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I think in the other two versions, especially Branagh's version, I think it feels like Gertrude is a little underused, but at the same time time, every time she pops up, she's just strikingly holding her own with everybody else on the screen. And the same, honestly, goes with 2000's Hamlet in a way that's kind of surprising. [00:25:55] Speaker B: Yeah, she. She's a little bit more, I think, minimal, like reduced in the 2000, but like, in the moments where she counts, she, you know. Yeah, does really well. But, yeah, Glenn Close is fucking goofy. [00:26:10] Speaker A: She's. She's goofy. She's smooching all over her son. Which, again, so here's the thing. Glenn Close is actually nine years older than Mel Gibson. And you could not tell by this fucking film. Because in all honesty, when you give Mel Gibson the most fuck my shit up haircut and also a little bit of stubble on top of Glenn Close, looking absolutely ethereal in this fucking film. [00:26:32] Speaker B: Ghastly. [00:26:33] Speaker A: She looks. She gas damn. She just looks younger than he does. Especially when you compare her to Claudius. [00:26:43] Speaker B: She looks like a porcelain doll. [00:26:44] Speaker A: She does. She's. Because this is like Fatal Attraction era weird. [00:26:50] Speaker B: This is that time. [00:26:51] Speaker A: And so it's like to see her in like these drab outfits and she's just smooching all over Mel Gibson and Gibson is just full blown sad boy. [00:27:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:01] Speaker A: Which again, that is Hamlet. I mean, in a sense, it is the most fun about all three of these films is that how do you take the grief of Hamlet and incorporate it into your performance in a way that feels, you know, unique to this performance and not like a knockoff of Olivier or any kind of iconic stage production of it. And honestly, I think the unfortunate part is. I mean, this is not only Glenn Closer on Fatal Attraction era, this is Mel Gibson post all the Mad Maxes at the time as well as Lethal Weapon 2. [00:27:30] Speaker B: Yeah, he was coming off like an action run. [00:27:33] Speaker A: Yeah, well, he's still in like in between Lethal Weapons at this point. So it's like crazy. Like payback is happening like a few years after this. Like, it is. I get it's trying to be like, I'm gonna show people I can do more than just be rigs from lethal weapon or Mr. Mad Max himself, but [00:27:52] Speaker B: raises the question, should you? Can you? [00:27:56] Speaker A: Because, yeah, Andy, it was so funny because while I was watching through Brahmana stuff, Andy was just texting me about how much he dislikes his. The Gibson interpretation. [00:28:06] Speaker B: I mean, yeah, Glenn Close just comes off as goofy. I think it might be a case of a misguided performance either on Close's part or on the director's part where she just doesn't feel like she fits in with the rest of the movie, which is fairly drab and serious. And she's kind of this heightened sort of eccentric character. And Gibson, the problem is with him is like, it's. It's that. It's that kind of recognizably bad Shakespeare acting where you can tell that the actor saying the words does not actually understand the words they're saying. They just understand the general vibe of whatever, like, section of the play they're doing. And that's kind of how Gibson reads is like maybe Zephyr. Elliot, explain to him what's happening in the scene. And so he just yells these words, and they're all at exactly the same pitch and, you know, have the same sort of vigor to them, and it all just kind of runs together. It doesn't have nearly the dynamism of Branagh's or Hawke Hamlet, where it's like, every sentence they're making different choices that, you know, reflect the complex interior of the character. Gibson's just kind of like, yelling the whole time. [00:29:26] Speaker A: Because Gibson basically said, I would genuinely think in terms of the three interpretations, he would probably, I think, objectively, has the hardest to do. Because it's really like they're trying to be a grounded, straightforward. Like, this is how Hamlet the play would feel, really, in Denmark. So that almost is the implication that if you play Hamlet, you should play Hamlet. Like, it's like, the first time anyone has played this character. Like, you actually have to embody. [00:29:53] Speaker B: This guy's a regular guy in a regular world. [00:29:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:57] Speaker B: Whereas, like, the character of Hamlet is, like, one of the most complex and colorful and vibrant characters. [00:30:05] Speaker A: Oh, God, yeah. [00:30:06] Speaker B: In performing arts. Like, he's all over the place. [00:30:10] Speaker A: And it's so. [00:30:11] Speaker B: It's like, no, what if he was just, like, angry and sad, incredibly angry [00:30:14] Speaker A: and sad and plotting to kill his uncle and leads to, like, you know, the to be or not to be speech being very fascinating because instead of it being, like, how Kenneth Franas is in, like, this giant hall of mirrors and just a moment where he's just, like, looking at himself to self, you know, actualizing all these different things that he has never been able to really vocalize out loud for a while. You know, Gibson basically goes down to his father's grave and has very immortality kind of conversation with himself in that version of it. More of a, you know, reconciling with the mortality of his own life as well as everything around him. And also his insanity involved around seeing a ghost of his dead dad. [00:30:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:59] Speaker A: But, yeah, there is just moments where it's like, you know, Gibson has the crazy in him, and this is not because of what happens later in, like, his personal life, but it's more just the fact that, like, by this point, he's playing. He's playing Riggs. Yeah, he is an. Martin Riggs is an absolute actor. He's an absolute insane man. It's like he can play insane incredibly well in a film and have, like, a tragic note and, like, a empathetic nature to him that people can really relate to and just didn't have that with Hamlet. I think in Hamlet, it is. Yeah, it's very much. He understands the text. He probably even is like, I get what the scene is supposed to convey, but, like, trying to really get it over the hump is, like, a difficulty every single time. [00:31:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:44] Speaker A: There's one scene in particular. It's, like, the wildest. There's like. It's during the Gertrude confrontation scene where he gets slapped and he gets slapped and he just, like, screams. [00:31:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:55] Speaker A: It's the most out of nowhere that is, like, insane. Is genuinely comedic. [00:32:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's. [00:32:05] Speaker A: It's one of those things where, like. [00:32:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:06] Speaker A: When you have the biggest thing. And I think the biggest pressure on someone with Hamlet is that if Hamlet doesn't matter how good the ensemble is around him, if it doesn't feel natural, like, it doesn't feel like, you know, Claudius is actually Hamlet's uncle, or like, he has a really good relationship with Ophelia as, like, his maid and lover and, like, the love of his life or his friends, his coworker. It doesn't feel natural. Like, it's like every time he's with Helena Bonham Carter in this film, it just very much feels like it's almost. Almost hitting, but it isn't hitting, like, [00:32:42] Speaker B: in terms of, like, the kind of [00:32:43] Speaker A: romantic kind of aspect of it. [00:32:45] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. I mean, the reason Hamlet is such an interesting character is because, like, okay, he's obviously flawed and driven, kind of mad and kind of narcissistic and conceited. But also, at the end of the day, he has to be a guy that people actually want to hang out with because he's got so many friends and connections in the play. And in Gibson's version was like, who. Who wants to deal with this guy? [00:33:11] Speaker A: He sucks. [00:33:13] Speaker B: It is. It is, again, I think, miserable. [00:33:16] Speaker A: There's a quality. I mean, Branagh gets away with it because I think of the outlandish look of it all. His look in his film. Even though Branagh is not. I think Branagh is 36, 37. The youngest is Hawk. I think Hawk is, like, 28, 29. When they start shooting the 2000s film. He's technically the youngest Hamlet I think we've seen on screen. [00:33:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:42] Speaker A: Even though Hamlet's supposed to be in, like, his late teens, early 20s. [00:33:47] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:48] Speaker A: I thought he was supposed to be in his 20s. [00:33:50] Speaker B: If anything, it would make more sense. [00:33:52] Speaker A: It doesn't mean that. Yeah. Doesn't mean they don't have actors who are older than that playing that character. Because at the end of the day, anyone wants to play fucking Hamlet and they're good at it. You let them do it. [00:34:02] Speaker B: I don't know that I've ever seen a version of Hamlet where Hamlet is portrayed that young. [00:34:08] Speaker A: But hilariously, Hamnet is probably the one that I've met with Noah Jupe playing in that film as technically the first Hamlet. Noah Jupe's like 23, 24, so. But, yeah, it just, you know, Bronna gets away with it with his design and his just kind of charisma and the fact that, like, you can feel from these three different hamlets, kind of what angle they're coming from. With, like, Gibson, it is kind of the. Very much just like, I can show people that I can do dramatic like this. A classic experience. [00:34:43] Speaker B: A little bit of the meme that, whoa, I'm acting. Yeah, yeah, be intense. [00:34:49] Speaker A: And he is doing his absolute best. And it just doesn't work. And it's a bummer because it's Hamlet. And you. If Hamlet isn't really working, then you're just. [00:34:59] Speaker B: Then you're horribly wrong. [00:35:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Then you're just kind of being like, okay, then let's just hit all the beats, let's hit the reveal, let's hit the. The. The stabbing. Let's hit the intermission, all that. And, you know, Branagh is just every bit of Branagh in his version. It is just like, even if you don't know who he is, and it is very much like, oh, you have clearly done this for years. Whether it's off and on, whether it's other productions. Like, I think before he did his production of this, like, got into production for this, he was doing a radio version of it with Derek Jacoby. I'm pretty sure which Derek Jacoby, who plays Claudius in ninety six Hamlet, there was a rumor that he might have even confirmed it, that Jacoby in his past played Hamlet. And there were times when they were doing productions where he would just remember Hamlet's lines and he would almost say Hamlet's lines. Because he's like, I've been doing Hamlet for so long, but now I'm the old man. I get to be Claudius. But I mean, going, yeah, it's going from 90s Hamlet, the 1990s Hamlet, where it's just kind of like, you know, they did their best. I respect to the cinematography and the commitment to the time period, but in all honesty, by the end of the film, I have lost. I practically nearly fell asleep at the end. It's not a. I don't. Yeah, yeah, the Gibson one. [00:36:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:20] Speaker A: I wouldn't even fully call it bad. I just Don't. I think it's boring and that's fine. It's one of those things where it's like, I think like the most paint by numbers version of a Hamlet adaptation on film I think you get with Gibson's, which is no surprise that, you know, this is probably what so many people in the 90s and the early 2000s watched as their interpretation. Well, it's not as outlandish as other versions. [00:36:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:45] Speaker A: It's also a two hour. [00:36:47] Speaker B: I don't know whether this helps or hurts the film, but like, prior to Branagh's version, like most film adaptations, from what little I've seen of them, look more like Zeffirelli's Hamlet. They're maybe not quite as committed to the. The period reality, but like doing more the medieval, the kind of grays and stones and dreary Denmark. So, you know, part of it I think too is like this feels. When you're watching it, you can kind of feel that. Like, yeah, we all know Hamlet. We've seen it and done it a thousand times. And here's another Hamlet and it doesn't feel like it's. That's doing anything especially new with the text other than like, well, here's Mel Gibson doing Shakespeare. [00:37:39] Speaker A: Here's the guy that gave you the classic Romeo and Juliet in the late 60s. Here's his take on Hamlet. And it's like, yeah, it exists. It's very much a film that is like, yeah, very much so. All right. If most people know about this, it's probably because you saw it in school. Yeah, because that was there. [00:37:59] Speaker B: Like, and we actually nobody was willing to show a four hour movie in school, which is fair. [00:38:05] Speaker A: It was funny too, because we were talking to Evan and Nick, friends of the pod, and we were talking Midwest Film Journal. Yes, indeed. And Evan brought up to us that that was in fact the version he watched in high school. So it makes sense. Like, I think it is just kind of by the time I think we were in high school and they were. We were reading it, they were like, teachers were like, you know, you know what this is? You've seen to be or not to be. You've seen the skull. You did. We're going to read it. And if we watch a Virgin, it's. [00:38:34] Speaker B: It's. [00:38:35] Speaker A: We're not watching the four hour. That's like a whole week of school. It's a whole week of period. I'm not doing that. But again, even with that in mind, I can't help but just, you know, ever since watching the Piranha version. I haven't not been like. I mean, God, it's just. It's really good. I like it a lot. I. I genuinely. It's one of those. It's one of those. It's, again, being as unabashed as it is and unabridged. It is very much like, if you don't get it or if you've seen other adaptations, like, I don't know if I fully get Hamlet. There's a part of how Branagh commits to the text where it's almost like, I think I can kind of get it now, like, because the fact of, like, because again, with the Zeffrali and the Almareda version, it's like there are certain things they have to cut, which is like, how the play opens in itself, which the Brana doesn't. Which the play just opens cold to the spirit. Showing up in front of Hamlet's best friend, Horatio and the guards. [00:39:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:36] Speaker A: And being like, we must tell Hamlet about this. And then leads into where most films kind of start, which is the ceremony and the marriage and Hamlet being sad and to kind of go with what we know. And seeing how that goes into just the set design of Kenneth Brown's Hamlet, which is insane. How gorgeous the film looks. Apparently it was the. According to at least Wikipedia, which you wouldn't be surprised if this is the case. But it was like the last production, I think, Hollywood production, to be fully shot on 70 millimeter film up until 2011, which is crazy, but it is. Everything about the film feels, I think, in the most appreciative way, indulgent. It is indulgent in terms of just the cast. Because this is another film too, where this is a Hamlet adaptation that is, you know, Kenneth Branagh, Derek Jacoby, Julia Christie. Or is it Julie Christie? Julia Christie. There is, you know, there's cameos from Billy Crystal, there's Robin Williams. There's a much more diverse cast than I would have expected in 96 in terms of, like, you know, the. The players. Charlton Heston. I don't know if Andy knows about this, but, like, do you know who plays the lead of the troupe for the women? [00:40:55] Speaker B: The lead of the what? [00:40:56] Speaker A: The actor's troupe. Because there's Charlton Heston as the man. You know, the woman is. Because we've actually talked about her on this podcast. [00:41:06] Speaker B: No. [00:41:06] Speaker A: She will deliver us from evil. It's Rosemary Harris. Oh, yes, it's Rosa Harris. [00:41:12] Speaker B: I did remember sitting up in my seat when I saw her. [00:41:15] Speaker A: I was like, wait a minute, that's Aunt May the Raimi films. And she's great. The Charlton Heston scene fucking rips. And it's like the thing about Brana's Hamlet is that there's so many times where my brain, at least for me, went, this scene is incredible. I love this scene. I also understand why this is not in most adaptations. It's, like, constantly going back and forth on that. And also because my brain was blanking on it. Kate Winslet, before she really got fucking big. Crazy enough about that, at least from what I've read that. But Winslet, when she was up and coming, she actually auditioned for Branagh's Frankenstein, which will ultimately go to Helena Bottom Carter, which is hilarious because she plays Ophelia in the Zephyrelli version. But apparently Branagh basically went to Winslet and said, whatever I do next, you didn't get this part. It just wasn't right for you. But whatever I do next, it's yours. You don't even have to audition. And of course, one of the next things he does next is, of course, Hamlet. And apparently, during the production of this film, Winslet got the call that she got the role of Rose in Titanic. So it's this crazy kind of whirlwind of all these talents coming together of, like, stage veterans, of just like, you know, screen veterans that are just like. Just seeing Charlton Heston in a Hamlet is kind of, like, just shocking, especially in the 90s. [00:42:39] Speaker B: Yeah. You can almost kind of get the sense of like, oh, everybody wanted to be a part of this. [00:42:45] Speaker A: Yes. [00:42:45] Speaker B: You know, this was kind of a momentous occasion for acting because I completely [00:42:52] Speaker A: forgot about Osric in Osric in the play until fucking Robin Williams shows up. [00:42:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:58] Speaker A: Because I knew Williams is in this because apparently. Because there's two iconic American comedians in this with it being Crystal and Williams and apparently three Jack Lemmon and Lemon, too. That's. Fuck. [00:43:09] Speaker B: That's right. [00:43:10] Speaker A: Jack Lemmon's also in this. But it's just like, all three of them. But apparently Williams and Crystal were kind of kept with on a leash because they knew that people were just gonna keep laughing anytime they did shit. But while talking about the cast, I did want to throw this to Andy as we talked. You know, because you were such a big player in your high school reading of the play, I must ask, now that you've watched three different adaptations, who would you like to play if you were given the chance? Because I know where I would be. [00:43:40] Speaker B: Who in Hamlet would I want to be? [00:43:41] Speaker A: Because I know three roles I would do. I would really like to do if I got the chance. [00:43:47] Speaker B: I mean. Easy answers. It would be fun to be part of the Rosencrantz and Guildenstern duo. Absolutely. I think. I don't know if this is just. What's his name, Nicholas Farrell's performance speaking to me, but I really liked Horatio, particularly in this movie. [00:44:12] Speaker A: I agree. [00:44:13] Speaker B: This adaptation. So that would be a good. A nice role because he's. He's kind of. He's one of the only. He feels sort of pure. [00:44:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:22] Speaker B: He's in comparison to all of these, like, deceivers and connivers in this story. I mean, he's obviously in on some of it too, but. [00:44:30] Speaker A: But he's like the through line, genuinely, especially he ends the play. And he very much is. When Hamlet's not there, he's kind of [00:44:37] Speaker B: witnessing all of it. Yeah. And so that I think would be [00:44:39] Speaker A: cool because even when he's in England, he pops in and out during, like the Ophelia going mad and Laertes return and. And yeah, honestly. Yeah. My three would be. It would be Horatio, especially this version. I think I was like, God, that would be so much fun because Hamlet is just like. Because I feel like if you. Again, not saying you can't do this, but if you go for Hamlet, One, unsurprising. And two, you are just. You are the limelight seer. There is some narcissism in there. Being like, I want to be Hamlet more than anything. I mean, I get it. [00:45:11] Speaker B: I think you got to have some narcissism to play him. [00:45:14] Speaker A: I want to be the one guy that it's named after and is like the main focal point for everything. Which I get. Yeah. Which makes perfect sense because that man [00:45:24] Speaker B: screams after starring as Henry V in his own production of Henry V. And [00:45:28] Speaker A: also being in fucking Othello with Laurence Fishburne the year prior. And also doing Midsummer's Night Dream in the early 90s, which I do want to watch. [00:45:38] Speaker B: Yeah, we had a VHS tape of that. [00:45:40] Speaker A: Because it's like, apparently Michael Keaton's performance was absolutely bonkers. [00:45:45] Speaker B: Oh. [00:45:45] Speaker A: Like just like his interpretation of it. I know Denzel's in that as well, but yeah, Branagh, when Branagh shows up in the film, it is full blown cunt. Like, it is. Absolutely. He is wearing all black. He has the most pinpoint, well, pristine mustache possible. [00:46:03] Speaker B: His hair is quaff. [00:46:06] Speaker A: Quaff. Italicized and bold. [00:46:08] Speaker B: It is. I mean, but it almost looks like. In a good way, like, in how perfect it is. It almost looks like a Lego hairpiece. Like, just sitting on top of his head. [00:46:18] Speaker A: It is like, hilariously, the energy that he emits immediately as he shows up on screen is, like, perfect. [00:46:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:25] Speaker A: You're like, yeah. This guy, he just. He is so. He is main character syndrome in every. [00:46:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Which is funny, I think, because he's the only one that. I mean, he has this aura of, like, put togetherness and self confidence and arrogance, you know, to then think that, oh, yeah, this guy's got a, you know, a lot of screws loose and doesn't know what he's doing half the time and questions himself constantly. It's a fun little, like, I don't know, misdirect in his performance. Yeah. [00:47:03] Speaker A: Before I forget, because I realized I didn't re. Answer fully. Horatio would be fun to play Laertes, I thought, would be a lot of fun, especially in the back half. And then, of course, if I had to play, if there's like a small role, especially his interpretation of it in this film, the gravedigger Billy Crystal is such. Is so much fun. When he shows up for five seconds, I was like, I could do that. Yeah, that'd be so much fun. That would be. He's such a. He's such a little trickster when he shows up and just when he has, like, his little line of skulls, like, he's almost selling them. Yeah. His wares of skulls. Yeah. [00:47:42] Speaker B: It just. [00:47:43] Speaker A: Again, it's hilariously, as someone who has only read the play all the way through once, it is funny how watching this movie, it's like the little I remember of Claudius. Derek Jacoby is like the perfect fucking encapsulation of what I remember of that. Kate Winslet is Ophelia. Unsurprisingly, Kate Winslet is fucking great in the small role. She gets the small part. She does. I mean, every time, you know, when Hamlet is basically burned by her because she is forced to confront him, to talk about his madness in some way, shape or form, when he's, like, physical towards her, you're genuinely. It's like one of the only times I think you're genuinely just, like, mad at him for being so just, like, pushy with her. And it's like this most unfortunate truth of it. They just can't be together because they're just gonna be constantly pitted against one another. [00:48:33] Speaker B: Yeah. One. It's also the unfortunate bit of like, he is just like everybody else in that moment, using her, like, as a ploy. And you can see she feels that. And that sucks. That is the biggest moment of like, God damn It. Fuck you, Hamlet. You deserve what's coming to you. [00:48:54] Speaker A: Also the go to the nunnery hurts every single time. [00:48:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:48:57] Speaker A: It's such a. [00:48:58] Speaker B: Like get thee to a nunnery. [00:48:59] Speaker A: Get thee to a nunnery. It is after he's being such a fucking stinker in all three and he just looks at her and goes, real talk. You need to get the fuck out of here. I know you are not really one of these pieces of shit, but this whole thing is full of wolves and I want to burn it down and I don't want you to be part of it. But yeah, just the cast is just on top notch with the movie and since it's a four hour fucking film, they can just let it ride. Just go. The blocking is insane in a lot of ways in terms of the going up and down different levels and how big the rooms are and it's a castle. And Polonius is I think the biggest piece of shit out of the three films in this. And he's phenomenal in this movie. I would argue he's unsurprisingly the best. Best version of all three of these in says a lock is Ean Holm, I think is really good. Polonius in the first in the 90s Hamlet, 1990 Hamlet. But I mean it's just. Yeah. [00:49:59] Speaker B: Curious you didn't mention. [00:50:01] Speaker A: Well, we will get to him because it's hard not to talk about how I would say batshit. The cast is of the 2000s film. But it's also the fact that there's the. You know, the 1990 hamlet does not I think in any way shape or form. Talk about Fortinbras. I think they cut that out or [00:50:20] Speaker B: at least the 1990 film. [00:50:22] Speaker A: I think the Gibson one cuts it out entirely. I don't really remember well because there's like this looming threat of an army coming to take over Denmark led by Fortinbras. Who in this is Rufus Seawell, who's an excellent choice for a would push as like a very intimidating asshole who's gonna take your house. And he just has this great intense glare at every given moment and I think only has like four or five lines that only said in the very end. [00:50:50] Speaker B: Yeah, he's mostly has a non verbal role. [00:50:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:53] Speaker B: For the most part. [00:50:53] Speaker A: And he's got those. He's got those piercing I'm gonna kill you eyes every time they show like a. Because the funny thing about Brana's version too is that there's like this, you know, cross dissolves into flashbacks of things that are happening. [00:51:07] Speaker B: Yeah, this Film has the most omniscient view of the characters. [00:51:12] Speaker A: If you ever read Hamlet and was just like, God, this scene would be really good. But I would really like to see Hamlet and Ophelia kind of slightly fucking in like a pale moonlight. It's like, you have good news. You get that? I think at least seven or eight [00:51:27] Speaker B: times, Hamlet wasn't horny enough. [00:51:31] Speaker A: Hey, just so you know, Hamlet and Ophelia, they're kind of into each other more ways than one. And it's like, okay, that's great. Thanks. Branagh, the man who's writing and directing, writing this opposite Kate Winslet. Gee whiz, I have my. Ophelia is a decade younger than me. Let's make sure we do these pseudo sexies. It's for the art. [00:51:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:53] Speaker A: But, yeah, his version is just ending the film. I just had that energy of, like. I will admit that the fourth and fifth acts of Branagh's version is pretty much where it's like, I think this is just Hamlet in general. I think the back half of the play is not as interesting, even though we have the skull kind of monologue and the gravedigger aspect pretty much from Ophelia's burial onwards. I feel like it's like, okay, there's some great moments here and there, but this film, at least in this version, clearly we are on the cusp of ending, so we should probably get to that point. [00:52:35] Speaker B: The film. Yes. And I think that's probably. That's true of a lot of popular plays like we just had last year. An astonishing example of how much weaker the second act of Wicked is. [00:52:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:52:52] Speaker B: Than the first act or first half. [00:52:55] Speaker A: But thank God they added those original songs. That really helped. [00:52:58] Speaker B: Yeah, we needed that. If only Kenneth Branagh had added an original. Original song in the second act of handling. [00:53:05] Speaker A: Do you think it's more of a dig to not get anonymous, like, Academy Award nominations just by existing or making original songs that are clearly intentional to get a nomination from the Oscars and then still not getting them. [00:53:21] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:53:22] Speaker A: I feel like the latter is, like, ego is just so shameful to make fucking original inspiration. Please nominate these new songs, please. [00:53:32] Speaker B: And nobody likes them. [00:53:34] Speaker A: No. [00:53:35] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, but I do think that may be inherent to the play. Please don't smite me, Shakespeare, guys. But I think Branagh's version particularly, like, loses a lot of momentum after intermission until it gets to the finale. I think the finale is really well done and it is genuinely very exciting the way it's staged. And just the harebrainedness of how the duel spills out into the banquet hall and up the stairs. And everything is so fun and kooky and cool. And Hamlet's lost his fucking marbles for all three. Yelling at people. [00:54:17] Speaker A: I just love in the original text. And they all commit to this in the. In the adaptations. Just like the one hit that Hamlet gets on Laird, he's where Laird has to go. Nope, that's on me. I definitely. Yep, he got me. I felt a hit. I fucked up. I biffed it. He got that. Yeah. Cause it's basically like. [00:54:38] Speaker B: I think the only one that kind of shies away from that is Liev Schreiber in 2000. He's more like Rezan Eventful. And he says. He's like, still, I. I felt a hit. [00:54:49] Speaker A: Still. [00:54:50] Speaker B: Funny. [00:54:50] Speaker A: He says it with the tiniest mouth a man has ever had. Yeah, because. Yeah, because the back half, I really. I do enjoy, of course, the gravedigger scene. And I do love the. I love to feel. [00:55:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:04] Speaker A: Kind of like, you know, him. Hamlet interjecting himself again. Yeah, because again, with committing to how Acts 4 and 5 are, there's a solid. I'd say, knowing Branagh's version, 30 minutes with no Hamlet. It's mostly Claudius and Gertrude and Laertes coming back and being like, I'm gonna fucking kill you because I can't find my dad. It's like, well, you can't find your dad because I buried him because Hamlet killed him. And then it's like, but don't worry, we're gonna make two different plans and talk about it in ad nauseam, how they're gonna go. And then it's going to be 45 minutes maybe until we actually get to the actual execution of said plan. And then as you're executing the plan, you're going to be so ashamed of the fact that you committed to this plan that your own hubris is going to tell Hamlet that you fucked up. Which I will say leads to the funniest Claudius death out of all three of them. [00:56:02] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Which is the chandelier. [00:56:05] Speaker A: The chandelier, but also the. The fence missile. The missile of the straight lob of [00:56:12] Speaker B: the rapier through the air. [00:56:14] Speaker A: He just, like. [00:56:16] Speaker B: It's got to be like a 30 foot throw. [00:56:17] Speaker A: Hamlet like, holds it like a javelin and throws it by the hill. It is. Again, it's one of those things where, like, I think 4 and 5, you definitely feel it in the first three acts, but mostly in 4 and 5, where it's like you get the Ostrich scene, which is a very. A bit of out of place, but also a fun scene where they're making fun of like some of the new people that are involved and like, that are more Claudius, you know, guards, I would say, are like, you know, more in line with the new regime rather than, you know, sympathetic to Hamlet, where it's like, you know, Osric is saying all these big vocabulary words and they're constantly throwing them back at him. To be a jokester. And having Robin Williams on a goofy mustache is great. It's. It's also funny that when this is due to how it's shot, the fencing is happening. They're practically being raided from. [00:57:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:11] Speaker A: And it's like at this point, the way that the rating is going so fast and it does not kind of line up with how slow the fencing. So it actually. When they actually break in, it's like, I feel like they should have broken in like 10 minutes ago. [00:57:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:27] Speaker A: But, yeah, my personal favorite of these three is definitely the Brana version, but it also is. Will I watch this again in full? The answer is probably no, because it's just like. It's just a lot. And again, I didn't even really watch this in full the first time. I had to put it in two chunks. But if you're a Shakespeare nut who's been afraid to really give this version a watch, would highly recommend it. [00:57:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it earns its reputation as the quintessential Hammer. [00:57:56] Speaker A: And also, even though we have, you know, theaters are constantly putting older films in, especially with restorations and whatnot, if There's a fucking 4K restoration of this film, it would be kind of wild to see on a big screen. [00:58:07] Speaker B: Sure. [00:58:07] Speaker A: But it would be a lot. [00:58:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know that I would want to sit through that, but I would be tempted because it would look so cool. [00:58:14] Speaker A: God. We Both sat through 4K restorations of 7 Samurai and Ron, both films that I love, and I still was feeling it by the end of both of those films. So, yeah, I think a four hour brana. [00:58:28] Speaker B: An hour longer than those. Right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I really like and I have a lot of admiration for the Bronh one. I think my biggest criticism of it would be the kind of. It is probably what so many other people love about it, which is kind of the slavish recreation of every single ass thing. I am a big proponent of, like. Well, actually the adaptation, in the word adaptation is, you know, find. I. I think of, you know, a filmmaker or a writer or whoever. Is translating something into a new medium. Like should want to find creative and. And clever workarounds or changes you can make to either make it your own or make it more appropriate for the medium you're working in. And I think, yeah. You know, if this movie has one glaring flaw, it's that like. Yeah. I mean, the pacing of a four hour stage production where you're there and you're close and you're kind of involved as an audience member because the actors are performing at you. Yeah. Is such a different energy than four hours of the exact same pacing on a screen of characters in a far off place. [00:59:43] Speaker A: Oh, God. Yeah. [00:59:44] Speaker B: You know, where you really are just. Just kind of a passive viewer. And so, you know, that was probably the biggest drag for me. But it is, you know. Yeah. Goes without saying, all of the wonderful qualities of this movie sing if Branagh [01:00:01] Speaker A: is gonna blow all of his prestige on a specific Shakespeare adaptation by just being completely unabridged, I guess I am glad that it's this one. [01:00:10] Speaker B: Sure. [01:00:11] Speaker A: Cause I mean, just, it is kind of. Yeah, I agree with you. [01:00:14] Speaker B: I've always been a Macbeth guy, so like, maybe I would. Maybe my hypocrisy would be shown if Kevin Branagh or Kenneth Branagh or somebody, Kevin Branagh, somebody did a similarly, you know, grand and slavish adaptation of that. [01:00:30] Speaker A: If we can get Kenneth's American alter ego, Kevin Branagh, Kevin Branagh to do the film. [01:00:36] Speaker B: Kevin Bacon's Macbeth. [01:00:38] Speaker A: But the thing is, Andy has actually been lying this whole time because the real reason why he's not a big fan of Branagh's Hamlet in certain aspects is because he thinks that to be or not to be seen would be perfect in a blockbuster. [01:00:51] Speaker B: Yep. We were definitely missing something. [01:00:53] Speaker A: We were missing, and that is product placement. Because to talk about our final adaptation, I would argue, despite how unabashed and unabridged the Branagh version is, and how gaudy, if you will. Yes, just this gaudy. Like, it's like watching, like, it's like a porcelain. Like a porcelain, like, doll of a film where it's like everything just feels like if I touched it, it would shatter. Everything's so pristine in that version. AM's version with Ethan Hawke is absolutely batshit from top to bottom. And it is one of those things where, honestly, I think both of us just separately saw the poster for this film and were just like, oh, this is gonna be a fun one to talk about. And boy, oh boy, it is [01:01:52] Speaker B: easily the most experimental adaptation of the three, which wins at a lot of Points in my. [01:01:59] Speaker A: Oh, for sure. It runs in my mind too, because I would argue that, like, again, it's fascinating to go from Zeffirelli having experience with Shakespeare adaptations over the decades. Same with Branagh. And even Branagh not only having that, but also starring in a lot of those other adaptations that he's done. Going to Amareta, who's never done a Shakespeare before or after this. This is his first adaptation. It is just fascinating to have this. I wouldn't even fully call it confidence in, like, their full interpretation. It's more just like their eagerness to go full Gen X, late 90s, early 2000s. [01:02:42] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, something was unlocked by the 1996 release of Romeo. Baz Luhrmann's Romeo plus Juliet. [01:02:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm so glad you said the. Plus we can't say. And I think legally we have to [01:02:58] Speaker B: say plus plus TM copyright restricted by Bass Luhrmann. Yeah. Trademark of Baz Luhrmann. Yeah. I mean, that movie is both loved and reviled for its insane zany aesthetic and color palette and its choice to replace swords with. With glitzy gold guns and, you know, 90s hair and floral shirts and just all of these, you know, gang warfare, like, in place of this. These kind of warring families. [01:03:34] Speaker A: I. I will be honest. It's been. I think I've only seen Romeo plus Juliet once. [01:03:38] Speaker B: All the way through. I watched it in school. [01:03:41] Speaker A: Wow. [01:03:42] Speaker B: I mean, again, that's the only time [01:03:44] Speaker A: I've seen it that does feel like the. Hello, fellow student. So let's watch the hip version of Romeo plus Juliet. [01:03:50] Speaker B: Have we watched 2000's Hamlet? No. No. [01:03:53] Speaker A: Well, we will talk about probably why, but, yeah, it is that. Yeah, everything about 2000s Hamlet does scream. Well, Romeo plus Juliet was a hit with audiences because critically, it was pretty divided. [01:04:07] Speaker B: Yeah. And that is something that I see just in perusing letterbox and looking at, you know, critics reviews from the time of the 2000. Hamlet is a lot of people kind of, I think, sort of dismiss it as like, oh, it's trying to do the. It's trying to do the. The Baz Luhrmann thing to Hamlet. And I think that's a little reductive. Almerey is clearly not going for the same type of thing, but, you know, it's in the same sort of. Of spirit of experimenting with the text and interpreting pieces of it in ways that make sense. In the 2000s, I might say this is gonna probably. [01:04:52] Speaker A: This might piss off a few people. I think Almareda's Hamlet has more depth and more interesting kind of execution than I think any kind of version that Bass Luhrmann could have of any Shakespeare property. Yeah, I mean, like, Luhrmann's a very visual director. [01:05:07] Speaker B: That is the thing. But with Romeo plus Juliet. [01:05:10] Speaker A: Yes. [01:05:10] Speaker B: Is. It is kind of all style, which is. Okay, that can be, you know, the style can be the substance sometimes. And that movie is energetic and fun. Ish. But I think. I think Almereta's Hamlet has a lot more thought behind all of its stylistic [01:05:34] Speaker A: changes because again, on paper, you would this. Everything about this film on paper just feels like it should be exhausting and pretentious to the point of eye rolling, where it's like instead of it being Denmark as a country, it is Denmark Corporation. [01:05:53] Speaker B: Denmark Corporation. Headquartered in New York City. [01:05:55] Speaker A: Yes. Fortin Bras, who's like, you know, the head of a commander of a military that's coming to take over Denmark is now just the head of a rival company that's trying to buy them out and is played on screen. On a screen. On screen most of the time by Casey Affleck. [01:06:14] Speaker B: Yeah. A face on the news. [01:06:16] Speaker A: Most never speaks a single line, which I. This is hilarious because it's again, 90s. Casey Affleck is like just the curly headed, like, dude from Goodwill hunting. Just like younger, younger brother Ben Affleck. [01:06:29] Speaker B: Look. [01:06:30] Speaker A: It's so funny to see him in that. But it's Hamlet being the heir to a conglomerate, a big, huge corporation. [01:06:41] Speaker B: I don't know that I quite understood what the Denmark Corporation did. [01:06:45] Speaker A: I think it's. I'm just gonna say stocks. [01:06:48] Speaker B: I can't. [01:06:49] Speaker A: I can't because I don't. Because I can't think of any products they had in any of their hotels or apartments that had like Denmark on the logo or anything like that. I think that's. I have no doubt you're looking right now to be. But besides that, I mean, it is pretty much. It is still the same story where it's about a man realizing a guy in his 20s realizing that his uncle killed his father in attempt to take over the company and now needs to find a way to kind of have his uncle, you know, confess it in a way and also figure out the best way for revenge. And it's now just New York in the 2000s and now he is. Because again, we go from like full blown sad boy, don't know how to process with like Gibson to kind of a rage factor to, you know, full blown cunt in the best way possible with Branagh to Going to full blown Gen Xer, Just nihilistic, yellow tinted sunglasses. Beanie inside has a video camera and is filming everybody in their faces at every given moment and does not ask for any kind of consent. [01:08:10] Speaker B: A lot of. [01:08:10] Speaker A: So he can make his experimental films. [01:08:13] Speaker B: A lot of weird, edgy, punky angst coming out of this hand. [01:08:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And honestly, no better person to play it than late 90s, early 2000s Ethan Hawk. Like, genuinely, I think that one of the best parts about why Hamlet has been, you know, an iconic role to play is just seeing every time there's less interpretation. [01:08:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:35] Speaker A: Just the interpretations are so fascinating. Especially to this day. Still. I. It's one of those things where, like, honestly, when we do a trilogy like this, usually I'm like, I'm kind of Pinocchioed out or Hamleted out. And honestly, after watching all three of these, I'm kind of like, riz Ahmed would be a fucking good Hamlet. I'm kind of curious about what his interpretation would be. Andrew Scott's version of her is phenomenal on stage, but it is kind of just like Hawk just feels perfect for this era of Hamlet. And also I think Hawk shows by this point in his career that there is just an inkling of cockiness. But still just like the dedication to. You feel the reverence that he's putting into the text, but he's not putting it in a way where it's like I have to follow in the footsteps of every single person that played it before. It's more just like if I don't really feel what I'm saying. Honestly, it's the inverse of Gibson. If I don't fully commit and feel like I am feeling every single word I'm saying, it's not going to come across as genuine. [01:09:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:42] Speaker A: Because another thing too, and he has the uphill battle of speaking the original text with very little changes in 2000s New York City. [01:09:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it is. [01:09:54] Speaker A: Everybody's talking like that. [01:09:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:56] Speaker A: But it's fascinating. [01:09:57] Speaker B: All three of these films are pretty much like, you know, text accurate. It's just a matter of what they cut out or rearrange. But the dialogue is all Shakespearean. Pretty much. [01:10:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Besides cunning things, of course, to hit it like the two hour mark. Like, I would argue that 2000's hamlet probably has the biggest change, which I think certain words are changed to fit [01:10:20] Speaker B: to make it more in a modern setting. Yeah. [01:10:22] Speaker A: Like Horatio is like a fellow student at a college. [01:10:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:26] Speaker A: There's like one of his friends that he goes to and Horatio Is British. And I love that his outfit is fucking astounding. [01:10:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:36] Speaker A: I had to look up what his. Where his. Where his, like, jacket was from, and it's like, I think from the Netherlands. It's like a Netherlands company that I have no doubt is probably $10 and not really expensive whatsoever. [01:10:48] Speaker B: Now I know what to get you for Christmas. [01:10:50] Speaker A: Oh, stop it. [01:10:50] Speaker B: 2000 Horatio jacket. [01:10:52] Speaker A: I would wear it even if I looked like Ralphie from Christmas Story. Even just, like, had my arms up at all times. But it just. Everybody is, like, honestly doing their absolute best. And the biggest issue, cast wise, is the fact that the two people that I think are trying their best and I just think are a little. Definitely one of them's miscast is Bill Murray as Polonius. Bill Murray as Polonius is truly. Every time he shows up, it is like he is. Is going almost into Venkman, which is wild for Polonius, because Polonius is kind of like a ball of stress throughout the entirety of the play. To the point where it's like, you know when you kind of get a first big moment with Polonius in the play is when Laertes is basically telling Ophelia, like, listen, regardless of what Hamlet's telling you, you can't trust it. Like, he doesn't have any. He doesn't have to be. He's not gonna probably be committed to you. Like, you need to hold yourself and be very mature and just try to not let love take over, if that's what you think it is. And then immediately after that, Polonius is like, what did you say? Don't even think about getting close to him, you slut. Damn, dude. Settle down. And like, for the rest of the film, especially when Hamlet is going in his full, like, I don't give a fuck mode, Polonius is usually just like. Like, oh, my God, something's happening. Something's fucked up. What's going on? And in this film, Bill Murray, every time he shows up, it's just like. It just baffles me. Yeah, it is so funny when I hear him speak the lines. Now this point, the third interpretation. [01:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah, he does feel like of the cast, Bill Murray feels the most. Like, maybe this guy has never delivered Shakespeare before. Like, he's not quite sure that the tonality to go for or whatever. And he feels a little over the top in certain scenes. I will say I think I mostly actually really like Bill Murray's performance in this. I think the issue is the movie doesn't totally know how to characterize him. It doesn't make the best use of him maybe compared to either of the other two. [01:13:11] Speaker A: I will say it feels like Bill [01:13:13] Speaker B: Murray, like in his, you know, major moments in this movie is fun. [01:13:18] Speaker A: Oh, I mean, yeah. He's not boring, that's for sure. I will. It does feel like he's cut down a little bit. [01:13:24] Speaker B: Yes. [01:13:24] Speaker A: In the film. [01:13:25] Speaker B: Way less significant than the other because. [01:13:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Cuz to me I just. I despise him as a. Like if you're doing him well, I despise you. By the time he gets stabbed, I don't feel bad, but I do feel bad that it's like, fuck, Hamlet just committed a crime. Maybe that shouldn't have happened. But. But yeah, by the time Polonius gets [01:13:48] Speaker B: shot in the face. [01:13:49] Speaker A: Gets shot in the face. I jokingly texted Andy before we both watched Hawks Hamlet. I can't wait for Hawk Hamlet to shoot Polonius in the face. Just because I'm thinking like, yeah, what's the most Romeo plus Juliet thing you could do? Polish post that. Yeah. Have guns instead of swords. And hilariously you have both in this until. Until Larities gets bored and shoots them. You know, my second actor I would say is not necessarily bad, but I do think he's a little bit miscast I think is Leif Shriver. Like I likely Shriver as an actor a lot. [01:14:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:14:23] Speaker A: But he's so compared to the other two layer T's which I think do a good job of being very well mannered, mature and subtle in the beginning of the play and then go full just batshit traumatic crazy by vengeance by the end of it. Liev Schreiber is pretty much. He's always been kind of like a very. Keep it the same tone for the majority. And this film I think is no different. Even when he's mad, it's kind of just like okay, maybe pump it up just a smidge. [01:14:55] Speaker B: Well, and they kind of do. This movie kind of does away with the multifaceted angle of Laertes where like, I mean it's super prominent in obviously the 96 one since it's the full text. But like, you know, when Laertes is first kind of introduced back into the story towards the end, you know, you kind of view him. You're tempted to view him more through Hamlet's eyes and it's like oh, this, you know, this guy's coming up it up. Fuck this guy. He's Hamlet's rival. Like, you know, but by the end you realize like, oh, he fucking regrets being a part of this. He never wanted this to happen. Like, all of that, you know, he's. He has this nuance to him and this kind of sadness at being involved, and the 2000 version kind of just does away with that. And so he's really just. Just. He's just a rival. It's not nearly as interesting when he's just kind of the shitty, dark reflection [01:15:58] Speaker A: of Hamlet, because, like, an optional subtext or a foil. Yeah, like an optional subtext you can have with the play is the fact that Laertes is, in fact, another brother to Hamlet in some way, shape, or form, because their families have been so close together for their whole lives. Which I think is the reason why, depending on if you really lean into it enough or not, why Laertes is basically being so protective of Ophelia. Because it's like, listen, we both know him. [01:16:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:16:24] Speaker A: We know how bit of a whore he can be. And, like, I mean, he is a very lovely person and very loving person, but, like, he is also of nobility. So, yeah, hold it back. And, yeah, by the time. Honestly, it's one of the only things in 4, like, in the Acts 4 and 5, where it's actually kind of like a. A really sobering moment for Hamlet. Anytime he talks about her, I have this energy of like, God, I don't know how I'm gonna face Laertes accidentally killing Polonius. Like, he's like, Hamlet doesn't. Hamlet, like, me, does not like Polonius in any way. And I don't think there's any kind of real, like, love loss when he dies, but it becomes, like, a very true. Like, I feel bad for Laertes and Ophelia. Specific Ophelia, because I love her and I just killed her fucking dad. So I think that's off the table. And then having Laertes kind of be brought back into the narrative, like, because there is that moment in this film, I will give it, because I don't even think the 1990 version has it. Of course, the Prado version does, where Hamlet is trying to kind of make amends a little bit at Ophelia's. What, feel his funeral a bit like pulling him out of the grave and letting Laertes get a few hits in and kind of come at him, but also be like. Like, I'm. Listen, like, I don't come at you as your enemy. And I'm sorry how it handled. But, like, I promise you this is not intentional. And I. Yeah, I think, yeah, Lee Shrivers, again, similar to Polonius, I think there's just enough cut down, especially in the third act of this film, we are speeding to the finale to a point where it's like. I think the film has a really solid, good pace the entire time up until the last 20ish minutes. [01:18:04] Speaker B: It's condensing a lot there at the end. [01:18:07] Speaker A: And again, the interpretation it makes of what's changing to make it more modern. It's like one of those things where, like. Yeah, this makes sense. Of course. The Mousetrap, which is the play, which is the play within the play in the original text, which is supposed to be like, I'm gonna catch my uncle by making a play version of him killing my dad. Yeah. And I'm gonna see if he reacts. [01:18:31] Speaker B: The euphoria is this play about us [01:18:34] Speaker A: the most theater kid ass anybody could do. And in this version, it's an experimental film that Hamlet didn't hire any actors for. It's all just reuse footage. [01:18:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:18:45] Speaker A: And it's so. And it's like cutouts in a very, like, punk way. Like, all the little changes they do there done. [01:18:53] Speaker B: We. [01:18:53] Speaker A: I made the joke earlier, but, like, to be or not to be in a blockbuster. [01:18:58] Speaker B: Yeah. As he's walking down the. [01:19:00] Speaker A: The action aisle, the. That scene alone, I think really shows how this film is genuinely. I really like this movie. I can't. I can't lie. There's. There's a part of me that I think initially was like, I might like this a little bit. It's so bad. It's good. And then I was like, no, actually, I just genuinely, like. Yeah, I genuinely like this movie. I think it's like the blockbuster scene alone in execution. Or you would think in terms of, like, if you read that in a script, you should be like, this movie should be absolute ass. To be or not to be in a fucking video store. It should not. Will not work. And then you watch it, you're like, fuck. [01:19:39] Speaker B: There's a vibe here. [01:19:41] Speaker A: There's an aesthetic that Andy made it, so it shouldn't work. Especially when it ends on him watching. Is it the Crow? City of Shadows? [01:19:52] Speaker B: City of Angels. [01:19:53] Speaker A: City of Angels. The Edward Fearl. [01:19:54] Speaker B: Yeah. The sequel. [01:19:57] Speaker A: Everything about it should be everything we described. It either sounds to you like it's not real, or that sounds terrible. But in all honesty, it's really good. I actually really like this movie. And a lot of it is because the cast, I think, is really good and really committed to doing the original text in a modern setting without changing the text unless it needed in terms of, like, contextually character relationships and whatnot. [01:20:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:20:25] Speaker A: But like, it's so wild that, you know, after two interpretations at this point, watching and being like, all right, so, you know, no one really talks about this version. Maybe this, like, unless, you know, maybe people say it's pretentious. I don't know if this is going to really do anything for me. And then we get to, like, the ghost of Hamlet's father. And Hamlet's father is played by fucking Sam Shepard. [01:20:48] Speaker B: Yeah, he's really good and he's great. [01:20:50] Speaker A: I would argue. Who might be my favorite Hamlet. The ghost of Hamlet's father. Out of the three of them, like the Branagh one, again, there's a hellfire. [01:20:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:20:59] Speaker A: Brian Blessed, he's got the hellfire and brimstone, like, true experience ghost. Well, as the ham, like the Gibson one. There's just, like this sadness in his heart that actor perfectly captures. I think all three of these actors do a great job. But there's something about how Shepard speaks in this film where it's like, this is a man who knows some Shakespeare. Who would have thought an iconic American playwright would have probably a little bit of Shakespeare in him? [01:21:31] Speaker B: Yeah, well, he's. He's like, I don't know. It's a melancholy version. It's not morosely sad depiction. It's just like this is a shadow of. Of someone that once was. And they're no longer here, but they're, like, kind of trapped in this realm and can only speak in vague presences. [01:21:56] Speaker A: It's cool. [01:21:57] Speaker B: Sam Shepard's great at that and does [01:21:59] Speaker A: a great balance between having the kind of. The vitriol towards his brother for killing him, but also has that great balance that I think we get a bit more in the Gibson one more than the Branagh one, which is like the. But please do not blame your mother. Like, it's constantly like the ghost is like, don't do not be mean to your mother. Like, I. I don't. I am. I am mad at a degree, but I don't. I don't think she's involved. I don't hate her. It's just I have so many mixed emotions because I'm a ghost. And I kind of did. [01:22:32] Speaker B: I can't express all that. [01:22:33] Speaker A: I kind of did just get killed by someone pouring something horrible in my ear. So I'm not really doing well right now. I'm also destined to walk the earth maybe for the next few days. Like, him showing up at the outside patio of the apartment is great. The security guards being the ones. The one that tells him the standard security guard The Sam Shepard, when they do the whole Horatio trying to speak to him, him, it's like in front of a Pepsi machine. [01:23:06] Speaker B: Yeah, he's like walking toward a Pepsi machine and fading out. So you're looking at Pepsi through Sam Shepard. [01:23:11] Speaker A: It's fucking incredible. When I say things like that, my brain goes, we should hate this. And it's like, I don't. I just don't. Like, there's. There is just. [01:23:19] Speaker B: You get that incredible shot of him leaning out over the Sam Shepard, like, leaning out over the city on his balcony, looking at the kingdom that's no longer his. [01:23:27] Speaker A: It's so good. And honestly, the. Again, Hawke, I think, is, you know, great. Again, you're talking to two people on this podcast that love Ethan Hawke is one of their favorite actors, you know, and we didn't even agree on that together. We just found out that we both love Ethan Hawke. But, you know, as much as he's phenomenal in his hand in this, the biggest surprise to me, especially with, like, how there is a little bit of cut here and there with him, is Kyle McLaughlin. Oh, yeah, as Claudius. [01:23:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:56] Speaker A: A phenomenal. [01:23:57] Speaker B: Really, really choice. Claudia. [01:23:59] Speaker A: And also Gertrude is phenomenal, too. Her casting is great, but she's great. She's. Her little moment, she gets. Even though she's cut down a little bit as well. Because again, it's a two. It's the shortest of the three. It's an hour 50. But all, like, Kyle McLaughlin doing his, like, confessional in the back of his limo. Right. Well, Ethan Hawke has a gun right at the back of his head. McLachlan is selling it so well. And he's great in the movie. The cast is genuinely, I think, overwhelming. Overall, great. I do think, unfortunately, because again, I would say that she's a little underwritten the classical play, even though, I think, well, Winslet's great with her in 96, and I think bottom Carter does great as well as she can. But Julia Stiles is so cut down. Ophelia Wise. Yeah, she's the. She's, I guess, the. She's the silent type pulling through. She's the artsy silence. [01:25:00] Speaker B: She's the shy girl. [01:25:01] Speaker A: Yeah, she's not really. Even though they're doing, like, the text in, you know, as accurate as possible. She's not really a maid anymore. She's just like an old friend who's just, you know, connected to, like, a business partner to, like, you know, his uncle and his dad. Her death is, unfortunately, I think, the funniest out of the three of them because it's just in a random fountain. [01:25:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Like a mall fountain. [01:25:26] Speaker A: Like a mall. It's the fountain at the beginning that they're like. Like when she, like, writes like, three o' clock on this thing. On, like, do we want to meet the fountain? And like, Hamlet never gets it. But then she's like, sad. He doesn't show up. [01:25:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:25:39] Speaker A: Dies, Dies at the fountain. And you just have to watch a security guard, like, trudge through the water to get her up. It is just genuinely a really good time. [01:25:51] Speaker B: It's just. [01:25:51] Speaker A: It's a really fun interpretation that is kind of like. I feel like it's a nice jump start to, like, oh, so this is how you can do Hamlet now. Like, it's now just in the 90s and 2000s. Like now. It's not as modern, of course. [01:26:05] Speaker B: Well, sure. [01:26:06] Speaker A: But it is kind of fun just to watch how, like, it. There is not a laziness to the contemporary interpretation. And very much. They clearly thought. I mean, you're talking about this to me through Chad, but, like, just like the age of surveillance and, like, you know, be more connected and more about just kind of like the media in. [01:26:28] Speaker B: The media presence in this film is a really nice touch. I mean, so much of the broader plot events around Denmark are done as, like, news headlines. [01:26:38] Speaker A: Yes. The ending. The ending of the film is done with a newscaster. [01:26:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:26:41] Speaker A: Which is actually a really good. I really like that choice. Probably the funniest use of modern technology is the. In the original play, when Hamlet is sent to England, the king sends with Rosencantz and Guildenstern a letter that says, please kill Hamlet to England. And of course, what happens in the play is that Hamlet finds that letter, forges it to, say, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, and then leaves. In the 2000s version, it's an email. It's so funny how instead of it being, like, really cool, like, oh, I could, like, recreate my uncle's handwriting. It's just listening to him backspace a couple times and just puts Rosa Cran and kill this turn, which Steve Zahn, being a part of that duo, is such a wild but, like, understandable choice at that time. It's so funny to be my lord. It's. It's so good. It genuinely. There's an eagerness, like, there are versions, I think, of probably making something very contemporary, has the energy of. It's for the kids or doing this because who's going to read an old text that's centuries old? And this doesn't have that energy there's an eagerness to want to tell it as it takes place in 2000 and find a unique angle to handle it and be like, we're not making the definitive version of Hamlet. We're just making like a modern day interpretation that feels worthwhile. [01:28:11] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, you're breathing new life into something that has. [01:28:15] Speaker A: Old as it's. [01:28:16] Speaker B: Old as it's been done. [01:28:18] Speaker A: So classic. [01:28:19] Speaker B: Nonetheless, it has breathed so much life itself into other things and it's like, okay, now in a way, let's respond in kind by like doing what we can to make something new out of it. [01:28:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:28:31] Speaker B: While also, you know, it still remains pretty true to the. To the original play. [01:28:37] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. It was a good time. It's honestly, when it comes to, like, you know, with these types of, like, you know, we're doing the same story but through different interpretations that we've done in the past, this is kind of very nice to be like, you know, ending on like a solid high note of like, this is. [01:28:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, and the last one's the weirdest one. [01:28:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the weirdest one. But honestly the most entertaining at times because of just how unabashedly 2000s, just like practically should just have graffiti in the back that just says Gen X at all times. It just has that energy going through it. [01:29:14] Speaker B: William Shakespeare's Clerks. [01:29:15] Speaker A: I mean, the. Oh, my God. Fuck. Trying to think of other ones. Richard Linklater's Othello. Just like, all just like the era. But yeah. It ends on like, the fencing. Like the fencing competition happening on a fucking rooftop. [01:29:37] Speaker B: Yes. And I, I don't actually remember. I remember being kind of confused as to how we got to it being a fencing duel. Like, I don't know why other than, like, we have to do it. [01:29:50] Speaker A: He's from England. He knows how to fence. [01:29:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:29:53] Speaker A: It doesn't matter because he gets shot. [01:29:55] Speaker B: Yeah. There some interesting changes to how the, how the final duel pans out. I mean, instead of doing the whole, like. I mean, they do the poisoning thing, but they do it differently because instead of like, instead, I think Gertrude. Gertrude drinks the poison unknowingly. [01:30:20] Speaker A: In this version, she does it super fast. It is like. [01:30:23] Speaker B: Whereas in the. In the 96 version, it's very heavily like, you can tell. She's like, oh, I know. Like, I know what's coming. I'm gonna do it anyway. [01:30:31] Speaker A: She's like, I have a feeling you keep wanting him to drink. [01:30:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:35] Speaker A: Because you've done something well in this. She's just like, she's. She's kind of in her own kind of manic state. Because after the whole confrontation with Hamlet in Polonius's death, there is this energy of like, oh God, maybe there is foul play and there's something not right here that I haven't been aware of. But yeah, she drinks it really fast and then she almost dies immediately. It would have been so fucking funny because like with both the 1990 version as well as the 96 version is that there's at least a little moment where you see them put the venom, put the, like the poison on the blade. I would have just. I would have lost it. Would have maybe even given it a half star just to see Lee Schreiber turn around and pull a single bullet out of his gun, load it into the top of his magazine. It just has like a red tip. Like, that's the poison gun. [01:31:26] Speaker B: Well, and also like so funny that [01:31:28] Speaker A: he just shoots him. [01:31:29] Speaker B: Well, it's also so superfluous to say, oh, it was a poison bullet. [01:31:33] Speaker A: It's a fucking bullet. [01:31:34] Speaker B: Like he shot him point blank in the same stomach and somehow also himself [01:31:40] Speaker A: trying to hit this. Yeah, that was the funny thing too is like, that was the most confusing part was like, did, did he. Did Hamlet pull the gun enough shot [01:31:49] Speaker B: through both of them? [01:31:50] Speaker A: I don't know. Like, I was, I was expecting Hamlet to have the gun on him. [01:31:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:31:54] Speaker A: Just as, you know, defense. [01:31:56] Speaker B: Right. [01:31:57] Speaker A: But the fact that it's not even his gun. [01:31:58] Speaker B: No. It's just somehow Larities kills both. [01:32:01] Speaker A: It's also kind of wild to watch this film in 2000 and watch a man walk into his corporate offices that he could technically own after his uncle dies and watch him walk in with a gun. [01:32:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:32:13] Speaker A: And no one noticed waving it around. Just seeing a weird man in a coat or like a desperate man and just pulling the gun out willy nilly in his uncle's office because he's not there. Yeah, it's a good time, honestly. I mean, even though Gibson's film is the most paint by numbers and very much you could definitely skip, it is kind of fascinating to like think about the fact in the span of a decade you have three very high profile. Yeah. Big ensembles, very vastly different types of periods for it. Interpretations of, you know, blocking, cinematography styles, you know, taking thematic elements that have always been a part of the text, but also trying to figure out how you can update it in a way, especially for the 2000s version. Like. [01:33:02] Speaker B: Yeah, well, and I mean, like, I think, you know, with the, the long line of Hamlet adaptations, even before Any of these three movies, you know, you kind of get to see the, the cresting of the wave. [01:33:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:33:18] Speaker B: Because you see, you know, this very stripped down by sort of by the numbers version of it with, with Mel Gibson. And then you get kind of the grand celebration, the, the adaptation of all adaptations with Brahanas. And then as we enter the new millennium, we get a very, very new, very modern spin to show you, hey, this Shakespeare cat still got some new tricks. [01:33:47] Speaker A: I gotta say. It is so the way that Andy said that and the way that he's positioned and had the energy of, well, folks, we asked for this. I mean, what else are we supposed to do? I will say, I mean, in the future. I was talking to Andy about this off mic, but I do feel like we need to do an odd Othello trilogy just so I can talk about a year after 2000's hamlet. There is like a basketball high school drama version of Othello called O, which also has Julia Stiles, Josh Hartnett. Sounds wild. [01:34:22] Speaker B: The odd fellow trilogy. [01:34:24] Speaker A: It writes itself. But yeah, that's the millennium Hamlet trilogy. A nice little addition to the year. A fun trip. Hopefully our next trilogy doesn't have a four hour film spoilers it does it. But it still has three and a half because next to finish off August, we actually are doing a trilogy. [01:34:49] Speaker B: Just two out of three for August. [01:34:51] Speaker A: Oh my God, that's right, my brain. [01:34:53] Speaker B: We get a bonus one. [01:34:55] Speaker A: That's right, that's right. And it's funny because you didn't catch me at the beginning. But yes, we have. Nice surprise. We have three episodes in August and our second one is actually based off of a iconic Hoosier that is at this point of this year. Andy just told me off mic before we started recording, two of the three films in this trilogy turned 70 last year. [01:35:22] Speaker B: East of Eden and. Yes, you're right. Yeah. East of Eden and Rebel Without a Cause last year. Yeah, sorry, I just spoiled the trilogy. [01:35:30] Speaker A: Yeah. So. And the final film of that trilogy turned 70 this year. And you know, serendipitous as it may be, we are talking about a very tragic Hoosier icon, but also a icon of the 50s in Hollywood, Hollywood actor James Dean. And we are discussing the only three only films that he did before his tragic death, which are, as Andy's already said, east of Eden and Rebel Without a Cause and the third and final film which turned so many this year, Giant. Yeah, yeah. It is something that's very fascinating because I didn't even know this is something that Andy brought To my attention because I didn't even know. Again, James Dean is such an iconic. I have. I didn't even fully know that he was just. Three films like Rebel Without a Cause is an iconic film. [01:36:17] Speaker B: I think he has bit parts in maybe some, like, TV shows, maybe a low budget movie or two. But yeah, he only really had a starring role in three films and it was the span of two years. [01:36:33] Speaker A: Crazy. [01:36:34] Speaker B: Life and career were cut short in a car accident. He was. He's kind of one of the original, you know, the big kind of entertainment industry what ifs, you know, he was like, would he been one of the greats? You know, everybody loved him for the two years that we knew him. And then he was gone. [01:36:52] Speaker A: I mean, for basically the last half a century, I'd say even more so. It's basically, if you see an Americana mural, it's like, yeah, you're gonna see the red jacket. I see the red. [01:37:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:37:03] Speaker A: I think of Marilyn Monroe and almost James Dean right next to each other [01:37:07] Speaker B: at riding in a car together. [01:37:08] Speaker A: No, they just like force it. Oh, God, now someone's definitely AI'd that. [01:37:16] Speaker B: Oh, 100%. [01:37:17] Speaker A: That's gross. But, yeah, the best part, though is that despite the anniversaries and how excited we are to actually get to watch these movies and talk about his performances, we are not doing it alone, are we, Andy? [01:37:30] Speaker B: No. We are blessed to be joined by fellow Hoosier and IFJ member Brent Luthold, who is a friend of the pod, but never before a guest on the pod. He is the owner, editor writer for awakeinthedark.com his movie blog and review site. And yeah, Brent has. Has great. Agreed to grace us with his presence for this one by. I think he. He picked this one out himself. We were already going to do it, but he. He signed himself up for it and we're gonna have a hell of a good old Hoosier time with Brent. Absolutely. [01:38:09] Speaker A: I'm glad he's finally a part of the pod. I'm excited to hear what his thoughts are because again, I don't even know. Have you seen any of these movies? [01:38:17] Speaker B: I've seen, yeah, I've seen Giant in east of Eden, but I was. [01:38:21] Speaker A: You've seen Giant? [01:38:22] Speaker B: Damn. Yes. But my parents owned the VHS collection of the James Dean trilogy, and we watched two out of the three. I don't think I ever saw Rebel Without a Cause, which is arguably his most iconic role. But I was probably 10 or 12 when I saw them, so I don't remember them well because they. [01:38:43] Speaker A: Giant and a 10 year old. [01:38:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:38:45] Speaker A: Three. Three hour. Three plus hour film. [01:38:48] Speaker B: I don't know about you. I think I read east of Eden in high school. Maybe sophomore. [01:38:52] Speaker A: Yeah, we can talk about. I should have read in high school. I didn't. You shirked your duties. Here's the thing. I've always appreciated Steinbeck as an author. I do like his prose. But I will say, in high school I found him very, very dry. [01:39:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:39:07] Speaker A: Again, I respect all of his work. Of course, Grapes of Wrath and east of Eden be the two big ones. Hell, there's even an east of Eden adaptation coming out this year that I'm actually genuinely excited about. The Florence Pugh, I think, miniseries. [01:39:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:39:21] Speaker A: But, yeah, that was one of those, like. Oh, I can kind of. If we have to write a report on it, I can kind of flub it. [01:39:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:39:27] Speaker A: And I. [01:39:28] Speaker B: It's a. [01:39:28] Speaker A: It's a. East of Eden is a dense book. Yeah, it's dense. I'm very curious about how the movie adapts, what I remember of it. [01:39:36] Speaker B: Right. [01:39:37] Speaker A: But yeah, no, I. I should have read it. That was one of the, like the summer reading books where I was like, I'll get to it eventually. And then August ran around. I was like, fuck. [01:39:49] Speaker B: I remember struggling with it, too. I struggled with most of my summer reading, to be honest. [01:39:55] Speaker A: And here we are. You know, we have plenty of books in our backlogs. Except for your wife. Your wife's backlog, while probably huge. She gets through. [01:40:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Knocking on the door. Seventy books this year. [01:40:07] Speaker A: God. [01:40:08] Speaker B: Jeez. [01:40:08] Speaker A: If I get seven, I'll fill. [01:40:11] Speaker B: I think I'm at six. [01:40:12] Speaker A: Six, Damn. [01:40:13] Speaker B: What else am I going to read? [01:40:14] Speaker A: I think I'm at 2. But yeah, tune in on August 15th when we do the James Dean trilogy with Brent. And as always, I'm Logan Somash. [01:40:27] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [01:40:27] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.