Episode 126: The Robocop Trilogy (with Mitch Ringenberg)

[00:00:19] Speaker A: I'm about to drop it in the chat. It looks hilarious. It has Alexandra Daddario in it. [00:00:24] Speaker B: Oh. As Milton Hershey. [00:00:27] Speaker A: No, that would be cool. [00:00:29] Speaker C: Starring Finn Whitrock. He's American Horror Story guy. They're making him Hershey. [00:00:33] Speaker A: Dude, you had it. Looks like. [00:00:36] Speaker C: I just wanted a poster that says Witrock is Hershey. [00:00:39] Speaker A: What? I'm trying to remember what that. [00:00:41] Speaker C: Oh, fuck, dude. [00:00:42] Speaker B: Jesus. [00:00:43] Speaker C: We're good. We're back. It's the most basic trail. [00:00:47] Speaker A: It has, like, the 30 Rock, like, you know, like parody of a biopic, vibes, you know, it starts like. Chocolate is my passion. [00:01:01] Speaker B: Of course. [00:01:02] Speaker C: Well, you have to. What else? Oh, God. This guy. Oh, my God. This guy's got a lot of Netflix slop. He also did bad Santa 2, Vampire Academy, Mr. Popper's Penguins. I'm getting lost in the sauce. Oh, God. [00:01:15] Speaker A: Bad Santa 2. A movie that does not exist. [00:01:19] Speaker C: A film that I've never seen. I think I've barely seen Bad Santa one. I think I've seen most of it, but that has nothing to do with what we're talking about now. Have you been recording this whole time? [00:01:29] Speaker B: Unfortunately, I. I missed him saying he was gonna pull up the. The information on the Milton Hershey biopic. But, yeah, for the last minute, I've been recording. [00:01:38] Speaker A: That was important. [00:01:40] Speaker C: Is that the opening? [00:01:41] Speaker A: Sure. [00:01:43] Speaker B: Cut in. You cut in wherever you want, Mr. Editor. [00:01:46] Speaker C: Oh, gee. Oh, thanks. [00:01:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:01:48] Speaker A: Love it. [00:01:48] Speaker C: We love God. Yeah. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Soas. [00:01:55] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:01:56] Speaker C: And on Odd Trilogies, we take a trio of films, whether tied by cast and crew, thematic elements, or just numerical order, and we discuss the good, the bad, and the weird surrounding each film. And today is A pretty straightforward odd trilogy. It's an actual 1, 2, and 3. [00:02:13] Speaker B: A canonical trilogy. [00:02:14] Speaker C: A canonical trilogy. And it makes it easier for us because the three films we're talking about today are 1987's RoboCop, 1990s RoboCop 2, and 1993's RoboCop 3. We're doing the RoboCop trilogy. But we're not alone, are we, Andy? No. [00:02:30] Speaker B: We are joined by a very special guest. This actually. This trilogy was actually his idea. [00:02:37] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:02:38] Speaker B: Born long ago, and he wouldn't leave us alone until we did it. It's very true. He's a longtime contributor to Midwest Film Journal. A mind for 80s and 90s slasher trash and action trash and keel trash. He's Mitch Ringenberg, everybody. [00:03:03] Speaker C: Mitch. And actually, if you. Yeah. He was just on the podcast in our final episode last year. [00:03:09] Speaker B: That's right. [00:03:09] Speaker C: Which. With the Silent Night, Deadly Night trilogy. [00:03:11] Speaker B: Yep. [00:03:12] Speaker C: Mitch, did you have a much more fun time watching these films than you did Silent Night, Deadly Night? [00:03:17] Speaker A: Yeah. I gotta say, these went down a lot smoother than the, like, 17 silent night, deadly Night movies. [00:03:23] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. [00:03:24] Speaker C: Gosh. Because you watched all of them too, right? Did you? [00:03:29] Speaker A: I did, I did, I did. However, like, five of those, I think there were. That we discussed. Yeah. [00:03:35] Speaker C: Because there's initiations. The fourth one. And then we talk about Toy Maker God. I think that was only a few months ago. [00:03:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. These were pretty easy watches, I gotta say. I didn't really struggle through any of these. [00:03:50] Speaker C: No. Honestly, this is probably the most normal trilogy we've had in a while. In a while. Because it's pretty much an understandable. Just objectively, like, I can see why there's only three of these types of movies. [00:04:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:04] Speaker C: Because of the rise and fall of arguably one of the most iconic 80s sci fi action films to ever exist. Then you go, how do you top that? And the answer is, you don't. You try your best to capture it while also pandering to children with each new sequel. And that only leads to a third film. [00:04:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:04:26] Speaker C: And then a remake, which none of us rewatched for the pod. [00:04:30] Speaker A: No, it might. [00:04:31] Speaker B: I thought about it, but I didn't give myself enough time. [00:04:33] Speaker C: No. I think the most recent thing I've seen from the remake since it came out in theaters, because I did see that in theaters, is the. The scene in the remake where they rip Robo RoboCop apart. [00:04:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:04:45] Speaker C: And Joel Kidman's like, oh, God. [00:04:46] Speaker B: Holy crap. [00:04:47] Speaker C: Holy Christ. Holy Christ. [00:04:48] Speaker B: He says Holy Christ like seven times. Yeah. [00:04:50] Speaker C: And someone turned that into a meme a few years ago, and it's hard not to just laugh every time. Yeah. [00:04:54] Speaker A: That's like the one time that remake kind of comes to life and does something memorable. [00:04:59] Speaker C: And of course, that got Memed to shit. [00:05:01] Speaker B: Ye. It was kind of the first Punisher. No, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. And I think we did this trilogy right in terms of how we watched it, because we watched the first two on our own and then all three of us convened to enjoy the trilogy capper together. And it's fresh in our minds. We've just watched it. As fresh as that movie can be in one's mind. [00:05:30] Speaker A: Absolutely. Have my RoboCop 3 cherry pop. [00:05:35] Speaker C: Good. Foreshadowing for this trilogy is we kept comparing it to the Ninja Turtles trilogy from the 90s. And it has very similar in terms of the ones, the twos and the threes in that regard. [00:05:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:45] Speaker B: It's a comparison I will probably continue to bring up over the course of the episode. Yeah. [00:05:50] Speaker A: Shockingly, apartment as soon as Andy said it, I couldn't get kind of the one to one comparison of the sort of digression of the sequels out of my head. [00:06:00] Speaker C: Well, because, yeah, the first RoboCop, it's again, usually when we do iconic franchises, like iconic, I guess, in a way. But like we do franchises like this, we tend to go to sequels because it's like when we talk about the classic film in the trilogy, the easiest thing and the thing that constantly comes up is it's still a classic. It's still, unless it really has age, like fine, like in poor Milk, but like sour milk, like Robocop is not. [00:06:28] Speaker A: In fact, it is the rare 80s movie where like the things that you would expect it, the ways in which you would expect it to have aged poorly, like maybe some of the stop motion effects, things like that really have only kind of grown more charming. I feel like in retrospect and unfortunately, I think the satirical jabs that the movies kind of taking at like gentrification and policing and privatization and those have only become like a lot more relevant, I think, you know, but the movie is also still extremely fun just on its own as like a sci fi action movie too. [00:07:14] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:07:16] Speaker B: Mitch, I don't think I've asked you. So this presents a perfect opportunity on the air that what, Obviously, aside from your love for this first film, what made you so desperately want to do this trilogy with us? Well, why were you banging on our doors day and night? [00:07:36] Speaker A: You received all my letters that had been sending by mail. Even though we frequently talk over text. I just wanted to get them on the books. [00:07:45] Speaker C: You got letters, I got pigeons. Yeah. [00:07:49] Speaker A: Well, I would say that the original RoboCop is probably like in my top 10 movies of all time. I would say I kind of. I kind of held that back from you guys until one of my all time favorite movies. So I've just kind of always wanted to have a deeper dive discussion on it. You know, this felt like the perfect opportunity. [00:08:12] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:08:12] Speaker A: I also always thought robocop2, I might have appreciated it a little less upon Rewatch. Rewatch. Although I still enjoyed it. I always thought that was like a pretty fun sequel that I feel like. Nope. I feel like has a reputation as like pretty bad or pretty sure overall, the second film. [00:08:31] Speaker C: Yeah, it's probably come more of a cult classic over the years because of the subtext of which we'll get into more of it. The fact that it's like, yeah, it's kind of silly to make a sequel to, like, a film that's practically perfect. So how do you do that in the films? Like, the cheekiest stuff in two is basically like, oh, let's make a RoboCop 2. And it, like, fails miserably for the majority of the movie. [00:08:53] Speaker B: Well, RoboCop 2 is kind of a tale as old as time where it's like the sequel. You get the sequel to this iconic movie that everybody loves, and the sequel just isn't the first film. [00:09:04] Speaker C: No. [00:09:04] Speaker B: And that does. You know, it may not even be terrible, but nobody hangs around talking about it because they could just go back to the first one. And I think that's relatively fair of RoboCop 2 as a cultural assessment. Like, it's not nearly as good, and it misses a lot of the flavor that made the first one so special, but still not a bad time. [00:09:27] Speaker A: Yeah, it has some. It's not without, like, some charm, but it definitely does feel a little redundant. Like, the things that it. You know, the sequences that stand out. You can kind of think of, like, scenes from the original that did that better. So, you know, just to have the excuse to kind of talk about the original RoboCop. But also, you know, I had never seen RoboCop 3 and just never got around to it. I knew it was like a PG13 RoboCop. However, I knew. I just. I was hoping. And we'll kind of get to my thoughts on that, you know, once we start talking about it. But I was hoping that maybe just returning to that world again in a. And seeing something new, maybe I would get just some baseline enjoyment out of the movies. [00:10:14] Speaker B: Sugar rush of RoboCop. [00:10:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Just getting a little bit of that Omnicore flavor, you know, a new guy playing RoboCop. [00:10:23] Speaker C: It was crazy how when we started RoboCop 3, you said, you know what, guys? The best case scenario is there's less RoboCop, and you got it. And you got it in RoboCop 3. It was crazy how you called it. [00:10:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Mitch came in, he was like, guys, I'm kind of tired of this RoboCop. Listen, I think I'm hoping he doesn't have much of a role. [00:10:39] Speaker C: I'm hoping there's. There's at least 30% less RoboCop in this film. [00:10:43] Speaker A: What's one thing people didn't like about those last two movies, RoboCop. So let's greatly reduce that and take out any of the fun violence that it's also known for. [00:10:56] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:10:57] Speaker A: And give him a jetpack, which I [00:10:58] Speaker B: will say, cool jetpack. [00:11:01] Speaker C: He barrel rolls. [00:11:02] Speaker A: That was probably the most entertaining scene in the movie. [00:11:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:04] Speaker C: And honestly, the effects. I think Andy made a good point. The effects look good. The effects look pretty solid on the jetpack. Like, in terms of the lighting and kind of the masking and the mapping to the whole light. It's going from broad daylight and it's like, this should look like absolute ass. And it really does. [00:11:25] Speaker A: Wasn't a complete waste of time, but I can't imagine myself ever wanting to watch it again. [00:11:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Not a lot to mine from it. [00:11:37] Speaker A: No. [00:11:38] Speaker C: No. I feel like it's about on the same level as, like, Ninja Turtles 3 is for me, I guess. Sure. Like, it's like I. Yes. I am seeing the thing I liked from the other two. The other two films in this thing. But it's not worse in every way. It's worse than every down. Yeah. [00:11:54] Speaker B: More boring. Fewer characters I care about. [00:11:58] Speaker C: Yes. [00:11:59] Speaker A: Now, if they sent robocop back in [00:12:00] Speaker B: time to Feudal Japan, which they do [00:12:06] Speaker C: in a way, could you imagine like a. Just a big, huge, like, war in feudal Japan. And then there's Robocop with his auto 9, just shooting people, shooting Samurai, [00:12:20] Speaker A: basically, like the opening scene of Time Cop, if you guys have ever seen that. [00:12:25] Speaker B: The end of Seven Samurai. It's just RoboCop. [00:12:28] Speaker C: I mean, it's funny too, because we'll go, well, of course, because again, the first robocop is such a huge shadow over these sequels. And we'll absolutely go back to it constantly. Because it's just like every shortcoming from the sequel, ultimately, is because the first film does it so fucking well immediately. Like, the fact that the first film is a tight 90, gets everything that you need from that film immediately and also ends abruptly in, like, the best way a film has ever abruptly ended. The best last line, the best little, like, you know, kill. Even if the effects on that kill are a little wonky. I do like that kill still. And, you know, then RoboCop 2 is two hours. RoboCop 3 is a little bit shorter. But, like, you feel that time. The pacing is really dragged in both those films. But, I mean, apparently, like, from 1 to 2, because the first film was directed by Paul Verhoeven, who is like a Dutch filmmaker who by this point has a few films under his belt. But this is the film that puts him in the map in the States and ultimately leads to him to have a decade plus of bangers, quote unquote, depending on who you ask. But, like, you know, Total Recall, Basic Instinct, Showgirl, Starship Troopers. And you said Hollow man in 2000, [00:13:47] Speaker A: like 13 years minus Hollow Man. I love all those movies I can get behind Showgirls. [00:13:54] Speaker C: I mean, every clip of Showgirls makes me go, I just need to watch this on the biggest screen possible with a full crowd. [00:14:01] Speaker A: It's great. It's also one of my. My wife's favorites. [00:14:04] Speaker C: I love that as well. [00:14:06] Speaker B: But like, you know, big Verhoeven house. [00:14:08] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah. We're in Verhoeven now. The Verhoeven villa. [00:14:12] Speaker C: Please take your shoes off. We're watching Benedetta, [00:14:17] Speaker A: which I actually missed. I. I should see. [00:14:19] Speaker C: I have. I've missed it too. I think. You did. Did you see it? [00:14:21] Speaker B: Yeah, it's pretty. It's pretty cool movie for, like, the first half, and then it just falls apart. [00:14:27] Speaker A: I think what Verhoeven kind of makes him unique is he's this guy with. And I think RoboCop is, like, no exception that when he came over to Hollywood, he made these movies that are very crowd pleasing, like, on a surface level, but they have this, like, distinctly European, like, kind of smirking sensibility about them. Yeah. [00:14:51] Speaker B: Almost a venom to like, you wouldn't have had in an American film like that. [00:14:58] Speaker A: Yes. [00:14:58] Speaker B: You know, I mean, so much. I mean, European cinema was doing a lot more satire and poking and stuff before we were. Yeah, we were just doing a bunch of explosions and muscular guys and stupid comedies. [00:15:16] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It's. Yeah, it's the type of person where, you know that he. He has the energy of someone who watched, like, you know, Raiders of the Lost Ark and saw the scene where Indy just shoots the swordsman and just thought, like, he just killed a guy. Right. Just had a moment of just like, oh, our hero just like point blank shot that dude. And everyone's just like. Everyone's laughing in the theater. Everyone's having a fun time. And instead of judging other people, it's like retro, like, introspectively, like, I wonder, what does that mean? What is. Like, how does people want that from their heroes? So, like, what if we go to 11? [00:15:54] Speaker A: That is such a great call out as kind of like a ground zero of that, like, Paul Verhoeven sensibility. And he just dials up that kind of mean spiritedness. Yeah. And cranks up to 11. But he does it, in my opinion. I think so Skillfully. Because the movie robocop is still delivering exactly what you want to. You know, it has a sympathetic good guy who, you know, has these kind of core, like, family, American values kind of in his own way. And the bad guys are very bad, extremely sleazy, and they get their just desserts. But obviously in. But the whole movie has this kind of streak of cruelty and kind of this anarchic, like, punk rock spirit to it as well, that it kind of becomes very subversive in its own way. And I think I said this while we were watching the third RoboCop that that movie didn't have, which is like, it's lampooning, like, the violence in big American action movies while also still just being an awesome big American action movie. [00:17:13] Speaker C: Yeah, that's a tough. [00:17:14] Speaker A: That's a tough tightrope to walk. [00:17:16] Speaker C: I mean. Yeah, I mean, it's hard also, just like talking about RoboCop, it's hard, especially if, you know, his other work, not to think about Starship Troopers a little bit because, like, that's another movie where he is just on the cusp of basically having characters look at the screen and going, that's the point. But never does because he ruins it. Hence why in RoboCop 3, where you get a few scenes where people are kind of like, these guys are Nazis in human. Like, in modern form, and you're like, yeah, like, you didn't have to say that to me. I can kind of assume that just by the Nazi of it all, just how they handle themselves. [00:17:54] Speaker A: And I think, like, Starship Troopers, what maybe makes it a little less successful than robocop, but still a really good movie, I think, is that there he kind of really makes those characters almost these, like, bland Barbie doll characters. Like, you're watching this piece of, like, propaganda entertainment, very much purposely so. And I think RoboCop really does have, I think, characters that you endear yourselves to specifically. Obviously, like Peter Weller and Nancy Allen are characters who are very entertaining and enjoyable and people you root for. Whereas I think Starship Troopers go so deep into the satire that you're a little bit at a distance. But, I mean, it's still, like, a very remarkable and worthwhile movie. [00:18:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Because the whole thing about Starship Troopers 2 is, like, the lead. Is it. Gosh, his name is escaping me, but, [00:18:47] Speaker A: like, Casper Van Dieme. [00:18:49] Speaker C: Yeah. Yes, Johnny. Johnny something. But it's in the background. [00:18:53] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like Johnny All American, basically. [00:18:55] Speaker C: Basically, yeah. John Trooper, basically. And he just, like. The whole thing is people make fun of him in the early stages where he's like, why are we even doing this? Like, why are we going to war with bugs that aren't on this on our planet? And then everyone's like, oh well, this guy doesn't understand we have to take the fight to them and eradicate them from the root. And. And then by the end of the film, he is 100% entrenched in that propaganda, which is of course the point. But yeah, that's why RoboCop is, I think, so much more palatable to so many people because it's about finding your humanity through genuinely probably the most traumatic experience any human being could really go through as a cop, probably in terms of just being shot by drug dealers to the point that you have more holes in your chest than actual skin and you lose your hand. You are going, it's. And then you die and then you get brought back to life and then you go, by the way, we told your family that you are full dead and we did not tell them that you are RoboCop. So like, don't go talk to them. They've. They've moved on. And just finding like this whole arc being finding Alex Murphy again in that process. [00:20:15] Speaker B: Right. Well, and it's funny to talk about like the, the overt violence of the film and even, even for being a kind of, you know, true red blooded American style action film. It's. It's excessive. Yes. Violence even, even for that. And thinking about that in the context also of like kind of the, the inciting idea, the seed at the heart of Verhoeven, like his concept for this film was that he wanted to make an American Jesus film. He wanted to make a film about the concept of an American Jesus. And so you did the whole, you know, death and resurrection. Yeah, but like, you know, and we're. Spoilers are going to be gonna abound. But like the ending, he's. He walks on water, but not to save you based on your faith. He walks across water to blow your brains out because you committed a crime. Like, that is the American Jesus. [00:21:17] Speaker A: That's awesome. Yeah. Did you get that from the, like kind of gleaned that from the Criterion commentary? [00:21:23] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I've been doing that lately with, when we, when we watch films that I've seen before. I'm like throw on the commentary track. And this was the only one of this trilogy that I had seen before. So I did that. And yeah, it's highly recommend, that commentary [00:21:40] Speaker C: track, because it's Verhoeven. Right. [00:21:42] Speaker B: It's Verhoeven and the writers. Yeah, both of the writers. [00:21:46] Speaker C: Which is great because the Riders, I mean, is something that is also duly missed. Very much so when they are not really involved in two and three. I mean, Neumeyer, one of the writers, does come back for Starship Troopers and then is basically stuck in Starship Troopers jail for the rest of his career, it seems like. But yeah, it's. Gosh, this movie is like a. To me, it's a warm blanket movie. I could fall asleep to this movie. I could fall asleep to ED209 killing people any day of the week. I would just be like, ah, so excessive. I'm tired. Yeah, it's so warm and fuzzy in the most fucked up way. [00:22:25] Speaker A: It might be my favorite superhero movie of all time. I would say it's definitely like, it's definitely in the Running. And I would also say that it is the rare, maybe the only superhero movie I can think of where there's really no need for a sequel. Even though we're gonna be talking about the sequels. And the sequels aren't completely without value. Like I said, the movie really, like you said, is so well paced, has so many layers to it, is funny, smart, subversive, like wildly entertaining. And RoboCop isn't necessarily the most complex character in the world. I mean, he's a literal robot. So there's not a ton of layers. You can have that. And the world is. It's not like a Star wars or a Blade Runner where it seems to kind of be teasing this wonderful place that you'd love to explore. No, this place sucks. [00:23:32] Speaker B: Like it's just Detroit. [00:23:33] Speaker C: It's, it is like, it's the. It's a heightened, worse version of Detroit in the late 80s with corporations basically trying to dismantle Old Detroit. The whole trilogy is basically OCB trying to get rid of Old Detroit to make basically a gentrified billionaires wet dream called Delta City. [00:23:53] Speaker A: Yeah, and it's not. And again, like I said, kind of the movie being sort of sadly prescient. Obviously a lot of these issues have been around for much, much longer than we've been alive. And before this movie was made, issues of like gentrification and like privatization of like police forces and like obviously even like the military, which you know, on an even broader scale. But you know what I was kind of thinking about this time watching it was, you know, how Delta City is this thing that gets teased throughout all three movies but never actualized. But really, how different is that from, you know, every city where a Big tech company like an Amazon or a Google puts their headquarters there and attracts all these other smaller tech companies and startups. And people are, like, evicted from their homes. And, you know, it's done in a much more quiet way than we see in, like, RoboCop 3. But really, you know, it's really not all that different where, like, a private company comes in and sort of like transforms this city into something that's a lot more palatable for the rich. [00:25:09] Speaker C: Yeah. Because it's also like, OCP has enough money that they could find other avenues that isn't aggressive to lead to more of the creation of Delta City. And they could wait for as long as they want to, but they clearly want the easiest option possible. And each film basically is, this is the new easy option. This is the easy option. This one. And then the third one, they're just like, fuck it, we're getting bought out, so we might as well just go full hog and just try to get it done in four days. I think it's like the time frame of three. Because some of the best Delta City, like, iconography or discussion stuff is never actually in dialogue. It's like the one guy that gets completely blasted by Ed 209, that falls on the Delta City diorama that's covered in blood. And of course, the iconic, notorious scene that we watched, I showed you both a parody version of, which is the scene where the woman gets attacked because there's a huge Delta City billboard about, like, you know, the haven of the city. And it's literally, you're watching the worst of the worst because they don't want to put any kind of finger towards fixing the area. They just want to push everybody out or make a robot that will kill everybody in hopes to scare them away. [00:26:21] Speaker A: Yes. [00:26:22] Speaker C: And. God. Yeah, there's just. From the beginning onward, it just. There's just so much in that first film that it's just like the sentence will end with. And I just think it's perfect. I. I wouldn't change. I wouldn't change a thing. [00:26:35] Speaker A: I have, like. Oh, sorry, go ahead. [00:26:37] Speaker C: No, you go ahead. [00:26:38] Speaker A: Oh, no, I was gonna say that. I think the first time I watched this movie, I must have been. I probably saw it on tv, you know, in like, a heavily censored version. But I just so distinctly remember that boardroom scene where the guy gets, you know, blast into pieces and falls out the window from ED 209. And, you know, when I was a kid, I remember finding it, you know, kind of disturbing and unsettling. And. And it's definitely one of the most memorable scenes of the whole movie. But when you watch it, I think in the unrated director's Cut. Cause I know the movie had to get censored. Cause it originally received an X rating. And it wasn't until home video where the full uncut version was released. And that scene kind of in its full uncutness, where the guy just literally is just exploding with bullets like he's being hit by a turret. [00:27:35] Speaker C: Yeah, it's not holes, it's craters. It's just like fucking so many craters in the space of, like, seconds. [00:27:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:42] Speaker A: It's kind of like the thesis for the. You know, the entire impetus or the entire impetus behind Verhoeven putting all this violence in the movie. Which is like the kind of cold indifference that this corporation has to. You know, the violence that they're perpetuating. Because I wish I had written down the exact line. But, you know, after this guy gets blown away in the most horrific manner, like, not many people seem that phased. And, you know, one of the things, like, is like, they're like, our stock prices are going to tank because of this. [00:28:18] Speaker C: You know, I mean, it's kind of also fascinating with that first film. Because I didn't realize it much until the. Probably this time watching it, which is like, I don't know, 10, 20 times. I've seen this fucking film in different ways. Because this is a huge HBO film, I think is when I first saw this. Like, unrated. [00:28:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:33] Speaker C: Where it's like, you get HBO Free for, like a weekend and they play this film and you're like, this is what this fucking film is when you. When you don't have TV cutting around it. But it is fascinating how the OCP are the real antagonists, really. And, you know. Or the secret antagonists, I guess. And they do not care about human life whatsoever. Even if it's in the company. It's all about stock prices. But the true, like, the pieces of shit that kill RoboCop, like, every time RoboCop mows one of them down, they are genuinely, like, hurt. Just, like, terrified and horrified by the fact they just lost another guy. Like, even the drug dealers care about human life more than the corporations do. And it's kind of fascinating how it's like, even the pieces of shit have some sort of morality. It's bad. It's a horrible morality. And it's like, clearly they are as bad as they are because the corporations are giving them the wiggle room. Because we find out later that, like, the guy that kills fully kills. Alex Murphy, a Clarence Bodicker played by Kurt Wood Smith, who's read in that 70s show and that 90s show. God bless that man. Still kicking. [00:29:37] Speaker A: He's awesome. This is an incredible performance. [00:29:41] Speaker C: Again, the way he says bitches leave has such an iconic threatening aura to it with just the two words. He doesn't say like anything else in that scene. He just says bitches leaves, puts a grenade on the ground, like on the table and walks out. [00:29:57] Speaker A: And the kind of the glee he takes when he's going the na na na na na na na na na na na na, and blowing off each of his. I mean, that is so good. It's very chilling. And I think, you know, I think it takes real panache to both write and perform a character who is that intensely unlikable. Like, you really cannot wait for all the villains. You really cannot wait for robocop to fuck them up. [00:30:33] Speaker C: And it's funny too, because if you like when they show his rap sheet, because when, when RoboCop starts to realize that, wait, was I a person before this life? [00:30:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:40] Speaker C: When he like uses his USB knife to go through the police database and you just see like, it's literally like cop killing, arson, rape, sexual assault. Like Clarence Boddicker has done everything. Multiple counts of everything. [00:30:55] Speaker B: The worst. [00:30:56] Speaker C: He's the worst. [00:30:57] Speaker B: Caught him. [00:30:58] Speaker C: And yet every time he's on screen you're like, thank God he's here, because I just love to hate him. He's so good. His, his whole crew is great. Like, you know, Ray Wise is another one of his crew from Twin Peaks is one of his other things. And I can't remember the. The only. Again, it's. But it's, it's the 80s. The only black guy in the group has this iconic laugh, like this high pitch hyena laughter. [00:31:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:22] Speaker C: And his whole introduction is like pissing and then like Lewis catching him. And he's just like uses his dick to distract her. Just the dumbest thing, but it's still like so goofy. [00:31:33] Speaker A: And the bald guy who gets the most insane death. [00:31:37] Speaker C: Oh my gosh. We killed you. We killed you. [00:31:40] Speaker A: Gets the talk. [00:31:42] Speaker C: Freak waste, right? [00:31:43] Speaker A: That's what transformation. [00:31:45] Speaker C: My favorite Ray Wise moment. When he like grabs him, he's like, help me in the rr. He's just like screaming at the high. Yeah. Ray's just like, get the fuck off of me. [00:31:54] Speaker A: It just keeps going. It does. You're like, oh, okay. Yeah, like his skin's gonna burn off. It's like every shot of him, you know, he transforms worse. Worse. And then when you don't think it get any worse, robocop runs him over and his body literally just explodes like a wet balloon. [00:32:10] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Apparently, as I think Verhoeven said on the commentary, that that scene where the car hit the toxic waste guy, the studio really wanted to get rid of that scene. They were like, this is just too gruesome. And then they tested it in front of the audience. The audience went insane. [00:32:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:32:30] Speaker B: Like, you could hear in the air that everybody was, like waiting for it. And they, like saw it coming and then celebrated. They said it was like eight seconds of just dudes going. [00:32:42] Speaker A: Which is almost like, got to keep it. Which is almost like funny because it's both kind of like, it's so gross. And also, like, you know, there's part of Paul Verhoeven that is almost poking fun at the audience, like, being like, you know, oh, you want a sickening death? I'm gonna give you the most sickening death you can imagine. But he doesn't do it in kind of a Michael Hanukkah scolding, finger wagging way. You know, it's satirical, but it's fun. [00:33:13] Speaker C: Yes. [00:33:14] Speaker B: I mean, you said it at the beginning. Like, this movie gives you both. It gives you the satire and it gives you straight up a fucking blast of an R rated action movie. [00:33:24] Speaker C: Yeah, it just. It also just props to casting for having a ensemble that from top to bottom, from, like the, you know, the pedestrians are being attacked by these, like, you know, punks that RoboCop shows up to attack to all the way up to RoboCop himself. All these actors and actresses basically are. It seems like they're just told, like, you have to get your character across in like less than 30 seconds. And then you have to have people go, I know who this person is. [00:33:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:53] Speaker C: Like every single drug dealer. Just when Murphy shows up in the station, like, Peter Weller is not what most people would constitute as a leading man, like an iconic leading man. But when that man just fucking shows up on screen, there's a uniqueness to his look. There's a weird suave energy, like a confidence that's there. And when he meets Anne Lewis, they have a fucking chemistry off the gate, like out of the gate, that is like, you are married. Right? Cause this is weird how. And they're only together for like a shift before he dies. And then Ann is traumatized and they're basically best friends. [00:34:33] Speaker A: You believe their friend, you believe their friendship right away. And I think you're Right. Like, you know, Peter Weller, he has this. He just has such a striking face. He has these bright blue eyes and kind of this like, you know. And you understand why eventually in the movie, like this like incredible kind of chin, mouth, like bottom half of his face. He just has a really striking face with these really kind of like sympathetic eyes. [00:35:04] Speaker B: And he's also, he's not like, you know, he doesn't have like stunning leading man good looks like you would expect out of an 80s action movie. I mean, he's a good looking guy, but he is kind of odd looking. He's looking. [00:35:19] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. You know, he's very handsome. [00:35:22] Speaker B: He's very tan and that shock of blonde hair on top of his head. Like he looks like a, you know, a Kansas farmer in a way. Yeah, he's like, he's this very everyman cop, which is perfect for him to then suffer this insane violent trauma and be reborn as the ultimate machine. [00:35:42] Speaker C: I can't imagine auditioning for RoboCop and basically having a casting director or someone be like, yeah, we're looking for someone specifically for their chin and their voice. Like, their physicality definitely will be there. But like, it's, it is the. It is like you have to sell lines like, buddy, I think you're slime. Or dead or alive, you're coming with me. Like, it's like. And he fucking just out the gate. [00:36:07] Speaker A: You're right. That delivery of the buddy, I think your slime could be like this like Adam West Batman cheesiness. But when he says it, you're like, hell yeah. [00:36:15] Speaker C: Because at this point we've been established that Detroit west, which is where Murphy is being relocated to, is basically cop killing central. [00:36:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:25] Speaker C: Where it's like people like literally as he's walking in, as he gets to his fucking locker, a cop that was in the ICU died. And you just see Reed take the fucking nameplate off on his first shift. And now he is in a fucking industrial park kind of oil refinery area or maybe just a factory. And basically having the cop killer which has already established that Clarence Boddicker is the cop killer of old Detroit. [00:36:56] Speaker B: He's Mr. Crime. [00:36:57] Speaker C: Yeah. And they're just like, Mr. Crime is clearly to fucking kill you. And you have the absolute. You have a thousand balls to just go, I think you're a fucking asshole. And it's just like, damn, you selling that so well. [00:37:11] Speaker A: And you're right. The kind of, the replacement of the name on the locker and stuff is like another great little nod to sort of how callous this. This population of Detroit is to the violence. And we haven't even really talked about, like, one of the most memorable bits, recurring bits, of RoboCop, which is like, all the news segments and the media break the commercials as well. Like for the board game Nukem that we talked about, which is kind of showing children sort of viewing nuclear warfare as a form of entertainment. We've become so distant from it. [00:37:49] Speaker C: Introducing the new SUX 5000. Also, 20 people died at the third Amazon war. Like, there's like. It's just like, constantly just battering you with bad news ads. And, my God, that's totally not relevant at all anymore. [00:38:04] Speaker A: And they're like. They're almost like. They're so broad and silly. They're almost like SNL sketches, but somehow they don't break the tone of the movie at all. They really. The satire in this movie, I mean, it is subtle in some ways. Like we mentioned. There are kind of like. Like, more layers to it than you would think. But, like, a lot of the satire is, like, very broad and goofy, but it isn't somehow. It's, like, not dumb. [00:38:35] Speaker C: You know, it is crazy how they predicted Chuck Lorre shows with I'd buy that for a dollar. [00:38:40] Speaker B: Like, that. [00:38:42] Speaker C: That just had, like, strong, like, just the most sloppy, like, male sitcom shit you could think of. [00:38:48] Speaker A: It felt like, like an idiocracy, you know? It's just like the lowest common denominator slop. [00:38:55] Speaker C: And then the only thing we see is the same exact clip from different days, different angles, different people. Like the convenience store clerk and then the bald guy of Bodicker's team. Everyone's laughing. It's the best show ever. [00:39:07] Speaker A: That actor is given that one line. Everything he's got, I'd buy that for a dollar. [00:39:14] Speaker C: His fucking eyes just, like, light up. [00:39:17] Speaker A: Yeah, there's just. [00:39:18] Speaker C: Yeah. Literally, we could spend the next hour and a half just talking about one. Which is the problem when you have a trilogy like this, because it's like, I mean, where do you go from here? And I mean. Well, definitely, again, we're still talking about one. But I did want to talk to you guys about, like, apparently what the proposed two was at one point, which was there was a rumor that it was going to be a corporate war that's happening in Detroit. Like, like, OCP going against another corporation trying to take over Detroit. And apparently RoboCop was supposed to die in the first few minutes, be brought back to life 25 years later in this war and possibly have to choose a side, but also have a love interest through an AI that was trying to help him find his humanity again. [00:40:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:06] Speaker C: Which is, like, crazy that that was. But also, like, unsurprising that that was the one thing that Verhoeven was like, I might come back to do a sequel if it's that. And then of course, they, like, dragged their heel so hard, he's like, too late. I'm doing Total Recall. You know, bye, whatever. [00:40:23] Speaker A: And at that point in his career in like, 1990. Yeah, he probably could have made a good. A really good Robocop2 just because he [00:40:31] Speaker B: was like, he was on top of his game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Like, it would have. It might not have been the perfect movie that the first one is, but it, like, would have been more interesting, I think. I don't think he would have kind of done what Robocop2 ultimately turned out to be, which is a bigger, glossier, literally shinier, you know, kind of dumbed down version of the first RoboCop where it does have, like, some of the satire for sure, and it does have some of that mean spiritedness that the first one has as well, and a little bit of kind of like some unhinged qualities to it, but it just doesn't have, like, the teeth or the kind of freshness that the original had. [00:41:20] Speaker C: Definitely. Cause, like, I haven't seen this movie in a long time in a while. But it's something that I know we talked about in our very first episode when we talked the Back to the Future trilogy about why we don't do that. Because it's just like, we could do it because it's such a fascinating kind of like, it's about a guy who's trying not to fuck his mom for the majority of a film. [00:41:39] Speaker A: But, like, we've all been there, [00:41:43] Speaker C: especially when we go back to the 50s, right? Which in my case, my mom was not born. [00:41:47] Speaker A: That happened in one of my friends. [00:41:49] Speaker C: Yeah, classic. But I do think, like, RoboCop 2 has the energy that, like, I think a lot of people over time have kind of read with Back to the Future Part 2, where it's like RoboCop 2 feels like a film that is almost kind of making fun of the idea of just a sequel in general. Especially with something like this where it's like you get the full kind of what you need. The arc of a RoboCop at the end of RoboCop 1 going with the fact that he is full RoboCop. He is taking out Ed 209. He is fucking taking out the Bad guys. He's saving the day. And when they ask who he is, he says his actual name, Alex Murphy. That's it. He now identifies as himself. He is now back to being Alex, despite being in robocop's body. And then the second. And then the second film basically is like, well, the only way we can do something like this is if we kind of, like, pull that back. Like, we, like, either we pull it back or we go more into the family aspect. But do people want either one? And it's like this constant battle of that and almost kind of making not fun, but also being like, isn't this kind of weird that, like, you guys wanted this, but, like, do you really want to, like, kind of revert him back to just being, like, robot man for a while? And then he gets arcanity. [00:43:01] Speaker A: And his arc is. Yeah. Like, negated from the first one. They're like, yeah. Oh, well, we can't just have him just be, like, a dude. [00:43:08] Speaker C: He's RoboCop. [00:43:09] Speaker B: He can't go back to normal. [00:43:10] Speaker C: And again, like, I think out of all three of these films, this is the one that gets the closest to not making my eyes roll when they're so tongue in cheek about, like, making fun of how audiences reacted to the first film. Because there's that whole demographic scene in RoboCop 2 where it's just like, what would you like RoboCop to be more like? It's like, well, I wish he stopped shooting people. I wish he started hanging out with the kids more. Like, it's all these things. There's like, clearly this is, like, real shit. They've heard adults and parents, mothers and fathers talk about. Like, I want this man that murders people to be a good role model to my son. And making fun of that. But I think the scene gets that across, but also goes a little too long, which I think is RoboCop 2's biggest issue is even its best ideas are like, all right. And then we cut. And then it still keeps going. And it's like, okay, I guess we can just keep doing that. I really was kind of. Cause I had not seen two or three before the pod, before Fortune, before this. [00:44:11] Speaker A: Oh, okay, Nice. [00:44:12] Speaker C: I had seen clips of 2. The most iconic shit I saw from 2 is the failed RoboCop 2's where, like, all the robots are killing themselves, which is so fucked up. But also, like, one of my favorite scenes in the whole film. [00:44:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:25] Speaker C: Where, like, the guy pulled, like, the one that looks like the one from Fucking Danger, Will Robinson, like, Lost in Space. And he just pulls out a gun and just starts shooting where his head should be. [00:44:35] Speaker A: Yeah, there are some, like, funny. [00:44:37] Speaker C: And the ricochet hits everybody. [00:44:39] Speaker A: Yeah, there are some funny moments. And again, that kind of still recalls, like, the failing ED 209 scene, but it's. It's still funny. I think some of the. I mean, again, the movie's just not as funny as the original or as violent or, you know, as just smart. And I think some of what I missed, too. Like, I thought it was so interesting. You brought up, like, hey, like, the whole point of the first RoboCop was that he finds his humanity again. And then here they kind of just sort of go like, yeah, but he's. Now he's a robocop again. And I also kind of miss some of the humor of, like, his actual character in this one. Like, there's no funny moments with him. Like, in the first one. One of the funny biggest laughs, I think, is when he's playing with those kids on the playground and they're like, what advice do you have for the kids? And he's like, stay out of trouble. [00:45:32] Speaker C: Stay out of. [00:45:35] Speaker A: You know. And here he's just having this weird medium where he's, like, not, like, comically robotic or cold, and he's not, like, back to being Alex Murphy again. So he's just kind of a little more of a generic superhero. [00:45:49] Speaker C: Like, look at RoboCop hanging with the kids. And the kids are, like, trying to hold his hand, but he won't shut his hands or, like, grabbing his finger. It's, like, awkward. [00:45:58] Speaker B: Yes, well, it's. I mean, you kind of see it with a lot of franchises. I mean, like Logan said, like, when you've completed. Completed a character's arc and there's not really much more story to tell. At least it seems obvious for that character after your first film. But there's money to be made and licensing to be done. That character is just going to become a mascot for the franchise. He does. And that's what RoboCop is. From this point on, he's a cartoon. [00:46:26] Speaker C: He's a toy line. [00:46:28] Speaker B: Like, he just a cool robot cop. [00:46:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:31] Speaker B: Who. Who moves kind of goofy and says one liners and kills. [00:46:36] Speaker C: He says. He says creep. [00:46:38] Speaker B: Yeah, he says creep a lot. [00:46:40] Speaker C: Says creep out a lot. He probably. I never had any of the toys, obviously, because we're both. We're all three. A little too young to probably have all the og yeah. But, like, I bet there was a button that just said, dead or alive, you're coming with Me or just get out of here, creep? [00:46:54] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, oh, definitely. [00:46:56] Speaker C: I, I stay in school. [00:46:59] Speaker A: It was. Yeah, you're, you're so right though. But yeah, like there's no emotional core to the second one. There are a couple touches that I think are pretty fun. I think my favorite little, I guess like one of the few kind of eccentricities that sort of stands out is it doesn't mean much, but it's just a fun concept which is like having a child as one of the main villains in RoboCop 2, I thought is kind of crazy. And they don't ever comment on it. Like, they're never like, oh well, here's why this child is in this position. [00:47:40] Speaker B: He's a fucking psycho. [00:47:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Just like this is the kind of comic book world that this lives in where there can just be a, like a, you know, assistant crime boss lackey who's just like a 10 year old kid and a cold blooded murderer. [00:47:57] Speaker C: At least. Yeah, at least with two you can feel like Irvin Kirschner and like probably Frank Miller to an extent. Which is again another crazy thing about RoboCop 2. Fucking Frank Miller is in the film, did the story, and also wrote the screenplay for the film Dark Knight Returns. [00:48:12] Speaker B: Directed by the guy who made Empire Strikes Back and written at least in part by the guy who made Batman. [00:48:19] Speaker A: Some of the best comic books ever read. [00:48:22] Speaker C: You could definitely tell having the kid on the bad side. There were some. There was some exec who was probably shitting themselves every day thinking like, oh my God, robocop's gonna kill this kid. It's like, no, that's the point. RoboCop can't kill kids. So it's constantly gonna be a crux to him. And also he's gonna keep seeing his son, which is a. Look, I understand the idea of it. I do think that like when the film decides we're not gonna do anything with the fact that like Murphy's family is kind of aware that Alex is alive, but they're just not going to delve into this. When they stopped doing the family aspect, they decided to just push that to the side. Any time that he was like, oh, I used to have a son, I just couldn't. Like, I was like, yes. Like, this kid sucks. This kid's not your kid. You don't want to play ball. He wants to do nuke and just be a dickhead like the nuke subplot. [00:49:16] Speaker A: Besides, just like, I think, you know, who knows if at this time it felt has played out, but I feel like now watching it in today's lens, like, having, like the crazy street drug [00:49:26] Speaker C: that everyone's addicted to, designer drug is [00:49:29] Speaker A: a little played out. But also in the movie, I feel like they never really make Nuke look all that bad. [00:49:37] Speaker C: No. You know, like, yeah, again, like the whole. There was whole sections in the first film and there's literally mountains of cocaine and people are constantly snorting it. And it's like the ocp, which is like, clearly it's supposed to be the bad guys. But, like, probably if you're watching initially, you're just like, oh, these are just like corporate. You know, this is a normal Tuesday for these guys. Just mountains of coke. And then you get to two and it's like, oh, Nuke is really ruining our profit margin. It's like, what? [00:50:02] Speaker B: Well, and yeah, like, handful of times that we see anybody use Nuke, it just kind of like calms them down. Yeah. Like a guy takes it and he's like, all better. [00:50:13] Speaker A: You get the sense that one cop is, like, really addicted to it. So you, like, learn. It's like, addictive, but so is like every other drug. [00:50:20] Speaker C: They try to make him look like Bullock from like, fucking Batman Begins where he's all dirty and just like strung out. He's just like a dirty cop at the arcade where it's just like, stay in school. Like another fucking scene where it has to be like RoboCop making sure the kids are aware. You have to do things right. Except for robocop, I can hit and kill people. [00:50:40] Speaker A: I did like the scene of the baseball team gang of kids. [00:50:44] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [00:50:45] Speaker A: Do you remember what I'm talking about? [00:50:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:50:48] Speaker A: The movie needed more of that. [00:50:49] Speaker C: Like, I will. Yeah, I will say, like, I think the reason why I would give RoboCop 2 a lot more wiggle room than I probably would otherwise. Because this film, I think is overall like at least a 6 out of 10 most days for me. I think it's fine, but I think it gets a little bit higher than that for me when I think about it. More is because of Kirschner, I think, trying his damnedest to make this a solid film. That of course doesn't need to exist, but he's trying to do interesting things on top of it. Phil Tippett doing the stop motion animation, which is that animation is fantastic. And after, I think the first film gets constantly clowned on for like the Dick Jones really long arms and like certain scenes with like a. With Even though the ED 209 looks great in the first film, I think all the like the. Even though I do not like the design, the RoboCop 2 animations are really fantastic. [00:51:39] Speaker A: The budget is clearly higher. Yeah, like you can see the money on the screen. [00:51:43] Speaker C: And it's weird to think that at all went to basically stop motion. It feels like the rest of the movie is like on the same level, if not cheaper than the first film. But everything else, stop motion, the. [00:51:55] Speaker A: The big climactic set piece at the end, I think, I think at least does seem. Seem a little larger scale. Yeah, but you're right, it's not like significantly so. It just looks nicer. [00:52:08] Speaker C: Which apparently Weller, because again another reason why I think two is, I think automatically better than three is because Weller's back. Weller is committed to the character. And even at his weakest narrative moments, RoboCop is still fun. It has goofy moments and has moments of levity as well as it's kind of like serious like because basically when they stop doing the family situation, it's like he becomes like he goes to his next family, which is the precinct. And it becomes this whole thing about them talking about RoboCop. Because I don't think in the original film they ever refer to robocop as Alex. Except for Louis. [00:52:43] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:52:43] Speaker C: And then in the second film everyone is calling him Alex, everyone's calling him Murphy. They all are, you know, recognizing that this is a man in the suit while OCP is constantly trying to tell them not to do that. And then ultimately when they go on strike and stuff, it's like RoboCop is the one being like we're cops, we need to do this. This is my real family because I can't have an actual family. And then of course the old man, I think the old man in both this film and the first film is just. He's so little time, but he's so good. He's such a. He's such a shithead. But a fascinating, just like old money, like has clearly hired hundreds of people to kill thousands of people. Like he is clearly beaten. Like he's worked his way up the ranks using blood, sweat and other people's blood to get up to that point. And he just has this energy of like you don't really want to fuck with this guy. Even though if it was a one to one fight RoboCop would kill him. [00:53:39] Speaker A: But like it definitely benefits from just like Verhoeven's like. I mean I'm sure he didn't personally cast everybody in the first movie, but how well cast everybody is in that first movie, like all of the people who kind of come over into the second and even the third movie. [00:53:58] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:53:59] Speaker A: Make for really distinct, I think, characters. [00:54:02] Speaker C: I mean, like, in the. In the first one with the 209 scene where that guy gets absolutely obliterated, more people are afraid of the old man's long sigh and embarrassment than they are of that man dying. Like, it's like, that's the kind of power he has. And to be like, at a certain point, be like, with two, we're bringing him back in. The big crux is basically, they want to make a RoboCop 2, which is the most. Which already is so on the nose of just like, how do we do RoboCop again? It's like, that's the whole OCP plotline. And then there's Kane, who is, I think, just a weak villain overall and is kind of there the fact that it all ends up with him putting his brain into RoboCop 2. [00:54:48] Speaker A: The problem with making Tom Noonan digital, too, it's like a little bit of a waste of Tom Noonan. [00:54:53] Speaker C: It's crazy that they found in 1990 a DVD copy of Lawnmower man and they just put it in the screen and they just let it play every time he talked. Like, it's. I do want to say, do you both like the design of RoboCop 2? Because I don't. No, I don't really like the design. I do think it's on purpose. Like, it does have this, like, corporate over design. Like, what, What? Your first RoboCop is too clunky and silly. So this guy's gonna have a, like, barrel belly with a nuclear symbol on it and also a minigun on his. [00:55:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it feels a little bit. [00:55:30] Speaker C: It honestly feels like a Frank Miller redesign. Yeah, it feels a little bit at [00:55:35] Speaker B: odds with, like, the art direction of. Of the series up to that point. [00:55:41] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:55:42] Speaker B: Okay. We are always going to be poking fun at ocp, but, like, we're gonna do that by showing the. The corporate excess. Like, it's just going to get sleeker and cooler and more badass to the point that you can't take it seriously. I mean, RoboCop himself in the first film is kind of a ridiculous design. [00:56:02] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:03] Speaker B: You know, and the way he moves is kind of clumsy and silly. And I guess, you know, you would think with the way that they present OCP throughout these movies, that, like, okay, if we're going to debut a RoboCop 2 and, like, part of the point of the movie is making fun of OCP for trying to one up themselves. You're gonna get a like, quote unquote cooler robocop that just looks absurd, but instead you just get this like, weird junkyard monster. [00:56:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:56:31] Speaker B: That doesn't even look finished. [00:56:33] Speaker C: And they introduce him. They introduce him in like a conference. Like a Kaiju putting him in between. Like a fucking diorama. Diorama of fucking Detroit that he just destroys immediately. It's like, what the fuck is this? [00:56:49] Speaker B: I mean, he does look like Phil Tippett creation. [00:56:53] Speaker C: Yes, he does. [00:56:54] Speaker B: He looks like something that would be in Mad God, honestly. [00:56:57] Speaker C: Yeah. I think it's at its most Mad God when he's running, when he does, like the full 360 arm movement. Like, he's like on all fours. Like he's doing Sabertooth from X Men Origins. Wolverine. [00:57:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:10] Speaker C: He's like, running at you. [00:57:12] Speaker A: I don't love the design, but at the same time I just feel like I geek out so hard over, like, the Phil Tippet. [00:57:19] Speaker C: Oh. [00:57:21] Speaker B: The aspect of it is great. [00:57:22] Speaker C: Like. [00:57:22] Speaker A: Yeah. That I'm sort of like, this is fun. [00:57:24] Speaker C: Like, if. So if, like, if I saw someone have like an action figure of RoboCop 2, I would be like, that's kind of rad to see it in, like, physical form. [00:57:32] Speaker B: But the Ant man, he's so ugly. [00:57:35] Speaker C: I love him. I mean, I get that 100. I just think it's funny how much the film puts so much effort into the OCP plotline of we need to make a new robocop because apparently the first one is broken, even though it worked well the first time. But we're gonna pretend like it or whatever. [00:57:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:53] Speaker C: And then it is just like the bulkiest, goofiest looking design. Yeah. And again, it's like it does tower over Murphy. It does tower over OG So it's like, of course, when they have like a toe to toe fight, like, it's just knocking him around until he finds, like, the ultimate way to get around him, which is just a crazy thought. Shoot the brain. [00:58:13] Speaker B: Yeah, that. [00:58:15] Speaker C: Pull the brain. [00:58:16] Speaker B: That fight scene and the scale difference or the size difference between them leads to. [00:58:21] Speaker C: Yeah, maybe. [00:58:22] Speaker B: I mean, probably one of the biggest highlights of the movie. And that just like the. Just the technical feat of that final action sequence with having this little tiny RoboCop miniature like, like hanging on to [00:58:34] Speaker C: RoboCop 2, which apparently, like the. [00:58:36] Speaker B: The finale through the hallways and stuff. [00:58:38] Speaker C: Well, I think Kirschner and the team tried their best to fight as much as they could to have, you know, a nice balance between a crate, a creative kind of mindset, for how they wanted to do two as well as be more like, you know, audience, you know, minded for, like, oh, people are gonna really like this in the theater. Apparently the third act was, like, really contentious at a certain point where, like, Weller did not like the final act like that they actually put in the movie. Because the thing about, like, the first RoboCop too, is there is kind of this also. [00:59:05] Speaker B: He's in, like, all of that in the first one. Yeah, he's directly. [00:59:09] Speaker C: But there's like a very pessimistic outcome at the end of the first RoboCop where they basically put everything on Dick Jones. [00:59:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:15] Speaker C: And when Dick dies, it's almost like. And now OCP is fixed. [00:59:18] Speaker B: And now Alex is a servant of OCP. [00:59:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:21] Speaker B: Happy to do it. [00:59:22] Speaker C: And then apparently 2 was going to be more scathing with its third act and less bombastic against OCP. And then they decided that's not audience friendly enough. We're gonna have, like just a. Two gorillas fighting in a cage, like in the streets of Detroit. [00:59:38] Speaker B: The secret of the ooze. [00:59:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:59:40] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:59:41] Speaker A: It still does have a little bit of a bleaker ending than the original in the sense that they kind of, you know, the people in power don't really suffer any consequences and they just throw it on that. That girl who, you know, does deserve some of the blame, which this woman [01:00:01] Speaker C: apparently is now like a full fledged psychologist in LA and has had, like a firm for, like, decades. Props to her. [01:00:07] Speaker A: That's insane. [01:00:07] Speaker C: That woman could not hold an American accent to save her life. And I was like, both like our friend of the pod, Adam and I were just like, what is her fucking accent? Because she cannot say any word without a weird inflection where it's like, this is not British. And then I was like, oh, she's Australian. She's got that OG trying to swallow her accent. Well, like that early Kidman, where Kidman was still trying to kind of push the accent away. And it's like, oh, God, where are these words coming from? These aren't real. And she. Yeah, she's insane. Her whole character of just like, I need to find the right candidate for Robocop 2 for the old man who I also am fucking. It's like implied heavily that they're fucking. Because of course that's how she's getting up the ladder. [01:00:51] Speaker A: They're hot tub chilling at one point. [01:00:52] Speaker C: Yeah, it is like chapping sauna. [01:00:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:57] Speaker C: The whitest oldest man you've ever seen in a Japanese sauna. Just like hanging out. [01:01:03] Speaker A: I Think like again, it's funny. It's like I feel like after talking about how amazing the first one is, I feel like every time I'm talking about the second one, I'm like, well, this isn't as good. This isn't as good. And even though I think I love the first movie so much that even like this, basically, I think I said on the letterbox, like not very original, but I said like, this is like robocop Lite. You know, it's, it's. Yeah, it's the first one, not as potent, but I can still have fun with it. Like, like I love the first one so much that, you know, a lighter, a competently done kind of sequel is still fun and I can watch it again. But I do think again, like another shortcoming is like that character we just talked about, the woman. The woman, yeah. Like she just doesn't have the sting of like a Miguel Ferrer character where that kind of bathroom confrontation he has with like Dick Jones, like, what an amazing, just like kind of delicious scene that is just. The smarm is just like cranked up to 11. [01:02:08] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:02:09] Speaker A: And there's just nothing really like her character is just kind of like generic. [01:02:14] Speaker C: She's, she's by herself for the most part because like, because like Johnson, who's a recurring character in all three of these films, he was like Miguel Ferreira was like closest friend or ally in the original film. He's now like the old man's right hand man or trying to become that. And you, they are like clearly fighting each other and like, in terms of like trying to get the old man's favor, but they're not really doing much to one another. Usually that woman is kind of by herself a lot of the times. And it basically gets to a certain point where it's. There's two OCP plot lines which is like Johnson and the old man and then like this, the woman kind of doing her own thing. And then you have Kane and his crew, which splinters at a certain point, where it's just the kid trying to take over the crew at some point. And then you have robocop starting with stalking his family because he's just like, maybe I can go say hi to them. And they're like, you need to stop doing that. And so they stop that entirely. And then they reprogram him to be more kid friendly, to be more hero cop man, and he's horrible. And then they basically get rid of that ship and then he just has nothing. The back half of two hilariously almost Gives you a nice foreshadowing to how three is gonna be. Cuz, like, there's a long time in two where you're just like, where's Robocop? Like, all that, like, the whole, like, RoboCop, like when. When RoboCop 2 shows up to try to kill Mayor Kuzak and the rest of Kane's team, when they're trying to make that deal for the city. Like, that whole sequence is like 10, 15 minutes, it feels like. And there's no RoboCop. No RoboCop until the aftermath. And you're just like, were you sleeping? Like you can't shit. Like, what are you. My mic just fell. Keep going, though. [01:03:58] Speaker A: I was gonna say, I think that is a really good point, how that lack of RoboCop definitely bleeds over to the third one in a much more egregious way. I also just think, you know, I'd be curious if you guys agree, but I just felt like the. The second one was, you know, this was my second time watching it, and the first time I watched it was probably like eight years ago or something. I was kind of surprised by the lack of violence in this one. Yeah, it's violent enough, but Obviously the first RoboCop is borderline one of the most violent movies you'll ever see. So I guess the standards. You're putting it to a high standard, but this one, I think the levels of violence are pretty. A typical 80s action. [01:04:51] Speaker B: Yeah, it feels like the. It feels in a way, like it's making the concession for the audience that kind of complained about the excessive violence of the first one. It's also, I think, combining that with the fact that, like, it goes for, like, goofier, sillier gags. I mean, you've got the whole bit with Ro, RoboCop, after he gets. Gets kind of reprogrammed and he's like, just a big goofy dork for the middle of the movie, you know, it just feels like. I mean, despite. It does maintain an R rating, right? Yeah, it is maintaining in our rating. It's like, weirdly softening across the board, which is a little disappointing. I mean, it makes for some funny gags. [01:05:40] Speaker A: But yeah, it's weird because there is. I think, like I said, there is. There are hints of, like, the kind of deranged sensibilities of a Paul Verhoeven and like, the very kind of outlandish details, like the gang of baseball kids led by, like, their mob boss, like, coach. Like, that's like. That's the kind of stuff that I wish the RoboCop sequels had gone more into where it's like, oh, this is kind of a Looney Tunes comic book world. [01:06:15] Speaker B: Yeah. A little bit cyberpunky where like the gangs have this bizarre flair to them. [01:06:21] Speaker C: Yes. [01:06:22] Speaker A: And the third one has very cyberpunky looking like thugs too. But I just, I wish maybe like something I typically love to see out of a. You know, a sequel to these types of movies are like, oh, show me more of the world. Like, you know, the blade runner, like 2049 for example. Or like the Aliens sequels. You know, it's like. Or you know, tons of different sci fi. You see different corners and pockets of the world and we don't even have to like move out of Detroit. But actually that would have been kind of cool. Like why couldn't we just have a RoboCop where he goes to like LA [01:07:01] Speaker B: or something and we could see RoboCop takes Manhattan. [01:07:03] Speaker A: Yeah, something like that. But. But yeah, just show me more of these kind of crazy, kind of go all out with it. Which I just felt like this movie kind of held back from a little too much in favor of just doing like, you know. [01:07:18] Speaker B: Yeah. It kind of neuters itself for like a more kind of broadly appealing thing. [01:07:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean, coming from a guy, when you look at everything Irvin Kirschner's done. I know he's done other movies that are fairly notable, but none of them that good. [01:07:38] Speaker C: Let me see. It's Empire Strikes Back. Empire Strikes Back. I think it's Empire Strikes Back. [01:07:45] Speaker A: I mean, I guess he's like the only other one I think I've seen is this movie called the Eyes of Laura Mars which is just this kind of. [01:07:51] Speaker C: Is it like Empire Strikes Back? [01:07:53] Speaker A: It's not. It's a pretty so. So serial killer thriller that was like really only notable because it was co written by John Carpenter and has a young Tommy Lee Jones in it. But it's not. [01:08:04] Speaker C: Oh wait, I have heard. Wait, he does that movie? [01:08:07] Speaker A: Yes. [01:08:07] Speaker C: I didn't know he directed that movie. [01:08:08] Speaker A: I'm 99% sure he did that. [01:08:12] Speaker C: Well, you're at least 100% sure that he directed Empire Strikes. [01:08:15] Speaker B: I do know that this is kind of a fun fact about Irvin Kirschner. His RoboCop 2 is actually his last feature film that he made and actually his last three were Empire Strikes Back, Never say Never Again, the like non canon semi spoof Bond film. [01:08:37] Speaker C: Oh my God. [01:08:38] Speaker A: Sean Connery like came back like years [01:08:41] Speaker B: later and then Robocop 2. So all the IP based sequels. Sequels. Only one of them particularly, that is [01:08:51] Speaker C: a nod trilogy in itself. [01:08:52] Speaker A: Never say Never Again. Supposed to be pretty bad. [01:08:54] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I've heard. [01:08:55] Speaker A: RoboCop 2 is just sort of like, fine, fine. [01:09:00] Speaker C: If you are at MGM and you are desperately trying to find a way to get people to get on board with RoboCop 2, unsurprisingly, getting frank Miller, who is probably getting higher and higher in his powers at this point in the late 80s, early 90s with his comics, and you get him to do the story and you have the guy that did one of the best sci fi sequels to ever be created be involved in your sci fi sequel. And it's already made money. Also the fact that it's made money because it's RoboCop 2. So it's like at that point, it's like, whatever they want to do, they can do. But clearly there is. There is some dissonance towards the end, especially with that third act of like, this is what we want people to see RoboCop as. Whereas, like, you know, by the end of two, while there still is a little bit of that bite. Not a lot. And so it ultimately is kind of like, well, if we do another film, whatever Verhoeven and company did in that first film, I think will probably be lost. Enter RoboCop 3, a film that apparently was, I think, shot a year after two came out. And then Orion went under and then the movie didn't come out until 93. And you know what? It could have waited until 95, 97, not 2000. That's too far. But I think we're RoboCop 2000. I think regardless, there's a movie right there. But regardless of when you would have released RoboCop 3, I think just ultimately telling people, by the way, this is the PG13 RoboCop film that doesn't have Peter Weller is already enough to be like, yeah. [01:10:30] Speaker B: And the steam, at least for movie like film robocops was waning because two, I mean, did fine, but it made less than one on a much bigger budget. And then, you know, so three, the studio's already gonna be. Studio already made concessions on two to try and reach a broader audience. They're gonna continue to make more concessions and further neuter the thing. [01:10:55] Speaker C: On a third round, you can tell that they really wanted more Toy variants of RoboCop because RoboCop 3, after being out of the film for 45 minutes, he gets introduced with his new arm cannon. [01:11:09] Speaker B: Yeah, his Mega man gun, which does look sick. [01:11:12] Speaker A: It's pretty cool. He doesn't use it in any particularly violent ways. [01:11:15] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like hilariously like. It looks like an AK47 tip on the side and then just a big old tube for like a. Yeah. [01:11:24] Speaker A: And you know, this was made obviously the 80s were a weird time where like these super R rated properties would like get tons of toys for kids like made from them. And that is obviously not the case anymore. [01:11:37] Speaker C: Well, I think at a certain point there wasn't a RoboCop versus Terminator or I think like at some point there was. Or is that later there was a [01:11:43] Speaker A: RoboCop versus Terminator comic book. [01:11:46] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:11:47] Speaker A: That was written by Frank Miller. [01:11:49] Speaker B: Okay. [01:11:49] Speaker C: And there was also a game too that they did. [01:11:51] Speaker A: Yeah, that. That sounds about right. [01:11:54] Speaker C: I think also like super Nintendo at the time and. Yeah, I mean, again, yeah, that was the era where like. Yeah, like RoboCop had a comic fucking most people. When people talk about how cool it would be to do more Predator films, it's because of the comics of predator in the 90s. [01:12:10] Speaker A: And I don't. I don't know why or I don't. Sorry, I don't know when the animated RoboCop kids TV show. [01:12:17] Speaker B: 1988. [01:12:18] Speaker A: Yeah, that was, that was on the kids show. [01:12:20] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:12:21] Speaker A: Okay. So they were already marketing this thing. [01:12:26] Speaker B: Oh, this is a design that everybody's looking at and going, I want more of that. I like that. Whatever that is, it's cool. [01:12:33] Speaker C: Put the guy that can accurately shoot a right next to Storm Shadow in a toy in the Toys R Us. [01:12:37] Speaker B: Well, he does. I mean, RoboCop does kind of look like a GI Joe character. He does Ninja Turtles villain. Like. [01:12:43] Speaker C: Yeah, like he looks perfect for like a Chinese knockoff called Robot Man. Just something like that. [01:12:49] Speaker A: If you looked at the poster for RoboCop, like the first one with no context, I think you would assume. I think you would be pretty surprised by seeing how adult and intensely R rated it is and grim it is because it does. He looks like a Power Ranger, you know, but it's definitely not necessarily. Well, you know, I was like, if I had a 10 year old kid, I probably would show him RoboCop because it's the coolest movie ever. But it's not really intended for kids. [01:13:21] Speaker C: RoboCop does scream like a film a dad shows to his son where it's like, now don't tell your mother I showed you this. Yeah, but like this movie fucking rips. [01:13:33] Speaker A: This is the hard shit. You know what I mean? [01:13:34] Speaker C: You can talk to your friends at School about it. But don't make sure your teachers aren't listening that I showed you this. But like, I just want to show you how cool this movie is because I know you'll love this movie. Yeah. [01:13:44] Speaker B: Which, I mean, obviously we were way after this movie. But like, when I was a kid in elementary school, I had all kinds of friends who. [01:13:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:13:53] Speaker B: About watching robocop with their dad. Like, this was absolutely one of those. [01:13:57] Speaker C: Like, this was. Yeah. This was like the era that we would probably watch this. I mean, like, when I remember watching RoboCop in full, my initial reaction is like, is that red from that 70s show when I saw Clearance for the first time? [01:14:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:10] Speaker C: Like hearing red, like curse the way that he does and snort coke and then just like also see all these other character actors that you let. Like, they're all. The older you get, you're like, this guy's in fucking RoboCop, right. This guy's in RoboCop 2. What the fuck? And then you get to RoboCop 3 and it has one of the most insane, like five second, like, cameo, like performances of just like. I mean like the films already kind of have that throughout. Like, I, I think one of the most wildest one out of all three of these films to me is that the, the news anchor is usually on site in the first film. He's like the one who's at the mayor's. Like when the mayor's being held hostage. I'm pretty certain that's Bill Farmer, AKA Goofy for most Disney animation properties. Like, that is like a young Bill Farmer because I hear the Goofy in his voice and it's like, like, it's like Bill Farmer's voice is basically like. You hear like he's been doing Goofy for so many years. [01:15:03] Speaker B: You can kind of tell Logan has this incredibly refined ear for voice actors. He'll. He'll hear like the tiniest inflection. Be like, I know that guy from seven other animes. [01:15:13] Speaker A: Like, that's, that's amazing because I, I don't. [01:15:16] Speaker C: I could never forget when I first realized who Bill Farmer was because, you know, for years and years of being a Disney kid just, just loving Goofy and like Mickey and Donald, never thought about who these guys would look like right behind the booth hearing the voice. [01:15:30] Speaker B: And the voice becomes a part of it. [01:15:31] Speaker C: Yeah. But at the same time, loved Kingdom Hearts growing up. [01:15:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:34] Speaker C: And there was this one random thing of like, I think Kingdom Hearts 2 was coming out and they were doing an event and then they'd show this like, old guy show up and he's like, sora, the heartless are coming. And my brain just could not forget this 50 year old man just pulled goofy out of his ass. And it's like he's been doing this for like decades. [01:15:52] Speaker B: Jesus. [01:15:54] Speaker C: But that RoboCop 2 has a few too. I can't remember off the top of my head because it's also like since we saw three recent like literally minutes it feels like, I mean three has Bradley Whitford, Jeff Garland from Kirby Enthusiasm or the Goldbergs. [01:16:09] Speaker B: Steven Root, Stephen Root, CCH Pounder. [01:16:12] Speaker C: CCH Pounder, who with her name being Bertha. Bertha as the head of the resistance in this film. Shane Black for five seconds. Because this film RoboCop 3 is co written or written and directed by Fred Decker, who's most known for Night of the Creeps and Monster Squad because those are the only other two films he really did. Yeah, before this, both, I mean I remember from Monster Squad really liking a lot and neither Creeps I've heard is just really good. So you know, know as a. That's like a. It's fine pastiche. Yeah, yeah. I mean it's got Tom Atkins in it and I'm just a sucker for that guy. It's like this random 50 year old man who's like, I don't know who you are, but I want you in everything. [01:16:54] Speaker A: Sex symbol. [01:16:55] Speaker C: Honestly. Honestly, it's so funny how that man shows up in like Halloween 3 is like this man can get any woman possible in like his 50s. And then in the fog when he's like in his late 30s, early 40s, he's like banging 21 year old Jamie Lee Curtis. [01:17:13] Speaker A: That's literally what I was referencing. Sex symbol Tom Ackman. [01:17:17] Speaker C: And honestly, he looks great in the fog. I love the fog. [01:17:20] Speaker A: Great movie. [01:17:21] Speaker C: But like, yeah, there's just so many different actors that are popping up in RoboCop 3. Like clearly it's just like it's character actor city in this fucking film. [01:17:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Rip Torn. [01:17:30] Speaker C: Rip Torn, yeah. The old man has died in between films. I don't know if the actor actually passed away or he just didn't want to come back. But they got ripped Tornado four years before Men in Black. [01:17:41] Speaker A: Who? [01:17:42] Speaker C: Just the new CEO. [01:17:45] Speaker A: I love Riptorin and like him being in any movie is only a positive. But I agree. Funny how tonally, you know, how tonally out of sync he is for like the kind of refined and cold clinical vibe of the Omnicorp people usually who this guy's just like an emotional, you know, train wreck. Coming into every scene. [01:18:10] Speaker C: Yeah, you go from like the old man to basically Trump. Like it just has like, he just basically has the energy of like, instead of killing people, he just fires them. [01:18:17] Speaker A: Well, maybe that was more prescient than we thought. [01:18:21] Speaker C: I mean. But yeah, it's like you have all these character actors. You have, I would argue probably more of an interesting angle for a RoboCop story, which is basically OCP forcefully gentrifying old Detroit, specifically Cadillac Heights, I think is this like big place where they can't get people pushed out. And RoboCop being an OCP cop, basically having to decide whether to fight for the people. Of course he's gonna fight for the fucking people. He's RoboCop. He's not, not gonna have much of a moral gray there. He's a. There is a moment where they're just like one of his new directives is he can't kill an OCP officer. Right. Used to be an OCP official or like a CEO member, but now it's like he can't kill the. Not Nazis. The rehab, because it's like rehab concepts. Rehabilitation concepts is what I think they call it because it's security concepts that builds RoboCop and then there's a new concepts thing in two. But like, you know, now it's the, it's the, the very cream colored Nazis that are like pushing people up a Cadillac height. [01:19:24] Speaker B: Well, and I want to expand on you describing them as not Nazis because Mitch made the point while we were watching that like there is a magic lost in this movie. I mean there's a lot of magic lost for a lot of reasons, but like one of the key ones that Mitch pointed out. I'll let you expand on this, Mitch, that like when you make them so overtly Nazi esque, it's not as. It's not really satire anymore. No, it's not really fun. And it's like you lose the corporate facade and it's just, oh, these guys are just fucking evil. [01:19:57] Speaker A: Yeah, well, Paul Verhoeven was smart enough to know that when you make allusions to something, when you make these kind of Nazi allusions to these police officers and these corporate heads, that's much more chilling and effective then if you just have people getting rounded up and thrown onto trains. I mean, it's just, you know, also like a movie like this is way too fucking goofy and stupid to kind of like, to kind of sell that like loaded imagery. [01:20:33] Speaker C: Like OCP at the end of RoboCop 2 has like their whole count. Like their Whole conference for rope. Like to unveil RoboCop 2, they redo the design of OCP to be red, black and white. And all the head security guards all are of course clearly alluding to the SS officers designs without fully saying they're Nazis. It is the closest the series at that point had been to just full outright saying it until three just says it well. [01:21:02] Speaker A: And you know, Paul Verhoeven, we briefly talked about this when we were watching RoboCop 3, which is like he escaped from. And I know I'm gonna like fuck up like whatever country it was like Poland or Andy, if you find it, correct me, but he recalls. [01:21:22] Speaker C: Oh, I will but continue talking. [01:21:24] Speaker A: Miss there to put me in my place. He in interviews has recalled like seeing bodies in the streets, you know, during his homeland and like the Nazi occupied like place where he was from and had to flee with his family. So he really witnessed all this like horrific violence. So obviously he has very strong feelings about that. Stronger than most, even in personal experience. And I think that also goes hand in hand with like that kind of desensitization to violence where like he kind of witnessed all these horrific things firsthand to where they probably became pretty normalized. [01:22:02] Speaker B: Yeah, he grew up in Nazi occupied Netherlands. [01:22:05] Speaker A: Netherlands. Okay. Okay. [01:22:07] Speaker C: Yeah. So it's like, yeah, him eluding even a little bit in the first film. Yeah, you don't take lightly because it's like, it's not like he's just throwing flippantly. [01:22:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:22:16] Speaker C: You know, there's just. There's this energy of, of Nazi. Of Nazism. And 2 and 3, specifically 3 out the gate has CCH Pounder calling them Nazis out the gate. It's like, I guess at this point with the third film you can just throw it out. But like it's not, it's. It's kind of lazy. It's a little lazy to do that. [01:22:36] Speaker A: And if RoboCop 2 was kind of like a more dumbed down version, the first one, I mean, this is like full on like Saturday morning cartoon. [01:22:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:22:44] Speaker B: I mean, not only is it PG13 and they've neutered all the violence and vulgarity, but also. Yeah, you've lost all of the commentary. Like this movie isn't really saying anything about the world that it's created. Whereas the previous two, you could least say, like, you know, we're reasonably effective satires. [01:23:04] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like the second film, I think you can feel like with the bad kid, I can't remember his name, but like you can clearly tell that they're probably trying to push back against the idea of RoboCop needs a kid sidekick. And then of course, Decker can't really fight that in the third film. So we now have a genius hacker child who can immediately, immediately hack an ED 209. Which again, ED 209s are a joke throughout the whole series. Even though they have so much firepower they can't walk downstairs when RoboCop shows up with that iconic like just rifle that just blows up the ED 209. Like he's. [01:23:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:44] Speaker C: ED 209 is used in the whole series as being like, they're kind of punching bag. They're punching bags. And it's kind of funny because of how much effort they put into them being scary because they use like animal noises. [01:23:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:56] Speaker C: Like, it just like has. It has like pig noise when it gets stuck down the stairs and it starts like squealing like a pig. It's such a weird fucking design. [01:24:03] Speaker A: And in the, the first movie, you know, the ED 209 being such a piece of shit was like, part of the point was like, these corporations are just sending in these dangerous, malfunctioning, shitty things to like, you know, sell to the military. Yeah, sell the military and rule over people. It's just about turning a quick profit. And whereas, like, yeah, now it's just a. It's just a cartoon and now it's [01:24:29] Speaker C: a child can pull out. [01:24:31] Speaker A: There's no depth to it. There's no layers. It's. And of course, having just a cute child sidekick, I mean, that's kind of like a sign of a dying franchise for any franchise, once that gets introduced, you're like, okay, we're on thin ice now. [01:24:50] Speaker C: Especially when you start off your franchise with craters coming out of bodies and just your main character dying in the first 30 minutes and then having the next 30 and then, yeah, getting to [01:25:01] Speaker B: the point to RoboCop 3. RoboCop is a friend to all children. [01:25:05] Speaker C: He's a friend to all children. He also decides that he's gonna take a nap until the 20 minute mark to really show up. And when he shows up, did this. Yeah. One of the big things and one of the things that I couldn't forget when I watched this with Adam is that when Adam. Because like, we were both. When we watched this. Yes. I have seen this from twice now when we watch it in span of the week. And when he was watching it, we couldn't put a finger on why this movie was just like not connecting with us and why we're just Boggling our minds about it. And then he said, just nonchalantly he goes, every time RoboCop is on screen, this movie is worse. And it, honest to God, like this movie almost feels embarrassed to have RoboCop. Maybe it's because since they don't have Weller anymore, or they're just kind of like. Like they just. It's like the third time around, we know his, we know his whole shtick. He doesn't change anything here. Like even the jetpack is like a third act thing. It's not something that he keeps throughout the whole movie. It's just, I mean, like his. [01:26:08] Speaker B: All of his scenes in this movie are just really feel like we're carting out the mascot so that everybody stands up and claps. [01:26:16] Speaker C: Like they have a car battery that they put into his chest and they wake him up to expand the character or anything. Wake up, Murphy, your dead kid. Just kidding. He's not dead. But that kid kind of looks like your kid, doesn't it? [01:26:28] Speaker A: These movies have a moment, spend so much time. And in the first one it's genuinely like heartbreaking. So, you know, obviously you get a pass because. But like. And the first one is generally genuinely heartbreaking when like robocop gets all fucked up and he's like malfunctioning. [01:26:44] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:26:44] Speaker A: But then like 2 and 3 just spend so much time with him, like malfunctioning and like not working properly. Like again where you're just like. [01:26:52] Speaker B: Becomes like a gag. [01:26:53] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:26:53] Speaker A: It's like we've done this already. [01:26:54] Speaker C: I could I. Yeah, I argue like one of the most perfect scenes in that first film is when he goes back to his house that is now on sale and he starts to like slowly blend between like Halloween or watching TJ Maxx. I think it's DJ Max or like TJ Star or whatever. The guy that gives him the gun, like the gun flip that he does because he wants to be as cool as like that guy for a son and like that TJ Starr or something like that. But it's like that whole scene is just like. Feels almost like a horror scene because it's cutting between the flashback and like robocop being afraid because he can't tell if that woman's really in front of him. And then like, it's just having that moment. You're like, this is the emotional crux to this character if you want to keep doing more. And then in RoboCop 2, they cut it off immediately. There's like nothing else. And so when three is like, God, RoboCop are you just gonna look at every child that is, like, vaguely your son's age and just be like, my boy used to be that age. Like, come on, do something with this that is just like. That is so much more interesting than just like, you know, my son used to like hats. [01:28:05] Speaker A: I don't even think. Yeah. It's weird how the family just becomes, like, increasingly an afterthought. They're throughout the series because, well, if he gets his family back, then there is, like, no more robocop. Really. [01:28:18] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:28:18] Speaker B: What's also crazy becomes an afterthought, like, in terms of how they're incorporated into the script but still gets drug out. [01:28:26] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:28:28] Speaker B: Carted around every time. There's like, okay, if we're gonna forget about the family, let's forget about the family. Let's stop just, like, recycling. [01:28:34] Speaker A: There's. [01:28:34] Speaker C: There's no. [01:28:35] Speaker A: There's no emotion again. It's like that. Like, both of those movies, 2 and 3, just lack this emotional core where it's like, you know, in the first one, you're totally with him on that journey. And those flashbacks are so effective and say so much by showing you so little as well. And then the second, third, just show you the same footage. Basically. [01:28:59] Speaker B: There's just the same footage with different actors. [01:29:01] Speaker A: Yes. [01:29:01] Speaker C: There's this wild scene in 32 that could be something really fascinating, especially for, like, RoboCop didn't deal with where, like, when there's a. When RoboCop finally wakes up after being another moment where he's asleep and not in the movie for 20 minutes, he wakes up and is talking to the child, and the kid talks about his parents or her parents who we see in the beginning of the film. They get taken by the rehab concepts and we don't see him again. And then RoboCop goes through, like, the Rolodex of the database and sees that both those parents were shot dead in the internment camp they were sent at. And he just goes, you must really love your family, don't you? And does never. Never tells the child. The child goes on not knowing that RoboCop is aware that both their parents were shot dead trying to escape their internment camp. And it's so wild. It's like, God, if only Verhoeven were here for five seconds. It'd be kind of fascinating to see RoboCop have to, like, break bad news to a child. [01:30:03] Speaker A: I think there's, like, this is such an interesting trilogy to me because I feel like when you watch 2 and 3, it really shows you how distinct of a director. Paul Verhoeven is. [01:30:19] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:30:19] Speaker A: You know, he's not always thought of. He's not always seen as someone who's, like, necessarily like an auteur. You know, he's not always, like, brought up in those conversations, but he definitely is because he has such an. Just an unhinged, like, sensibility to him that, you know, like, when you continue a series that. Where the first one has his thumbprints, like, all over it, it's just. There's, like, that factor is missing. It's like almost like if you made a sequel to, like, a Quentin Tarantino movie that wasn't written or directed by Quentin Tarantino by Drew Goddard. [01:31:01] Speaker B: Right. [01:31:01] Speaker A: Yeah, just. Just like some. Some very distinct voice or director, you know, and then you just continue that without that person. You're like, this just feels kind of off, you know, and. Yeah. To sand down the edges that made the first one so distinct. Yeah. [01:31:23] Speaker C: Just to have a jet. Just to have a jetpack toy. [01:31:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's. It's. It sounds weird, but, like, it. It really is the. The American Jesus of it all. [01:31:34] Speaker C: Like, that. [01:31:35] Speaker B: That is what Verhoeven viewed the character as. Was like, here. Here's what I think in, like, an 80s American Christ figure really is. And to think that that. That is how he interpreted the entire thing. And, like, I don't even know if it's really that effective of a metaphor like, in the. The final film, or that it's really that relevant to what the movie's doing. [01:31:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:31:58] Speaker B: That is how he viewed the character and wanted to depict the character. And, like, not a single person in two or three viewed him, like, with that amount of depth. [01:32:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:32:11] Speaker A: There wasn't much of a vision. Yeah, right. Like. Like, yeah. The American Jesus stuff isn't necessarily, like, [01:32:18] Speaker B: at the core of the moon. [01:32:20] Speaker C: No. [01:32:20] Speaker A: Any. It's not, but it is the core [01:32:22] Speaker B: of what makes the first movie different from the other two. [01:32:25] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:32:25] Speaker A: Yeah. This guy had, like, a lot of things he wanted to say. He had a vision, and yet it was someone else's script. But he's like, oh, I think I can. I think I can, you know, add my own sensibilities to this script. And there's a lot lurking under the surface here where, you know, two and three feel more like, hey, we're going to continue this guy's vision without him, though. [01:32:47] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:32:47] Speaker A: And. [01:32:49] Speaker B: Or really even just robocop sells toys. Let's do more of that. [01:32:54] Speaker A: I'm curious. Like, I don't want to put you guys on the spot or like, you know, just go on like too big of a tangent or a detour here. But it's something. It's something I wanted to ask you guys when you were watching RoboCop 3, and I was like, you know what? This will be a good maybe podcast question. [01:33:09] Speaker C: Okay. [01:33:10] Speaker A: Say they did. They will obviously eventually make some new RoboCop thing, right? Like, it's gonna be like an Amazon Prime TV show or a movie or a legacy. Cool. I mean, although Peter Weller's like so old, right? Like, at this point, if they. If you could choose somebody, right, some sort of filmmaker to continue revive. Yeah, revive. It could be whatever, reboot, remake, belated sequel, whatever. Doesn't matter. Who do you think would maybe [01:33:51] Speaker C: be [01:33:51] Speaker A: somebody that you would go, okay, like, that's interesting enough. [01:33:58] Speaker B: God, I would probably. To direct, I would probably choose Jose Padilla and I'd put Joel Kinnaman in the lead role. [01:34:10] Speaker C: I was wondering why you're looking at your phone. [01:34:12] Speaker A: Nailed it. [01:34:13] Speaker C: I mean, it just kind of like. The funny thing too about you again bringing back up the American Jesus kind of idea is that it is fascinating that that film works at its best when RoboCop is at his maddest that whole film, he is driven emotionally by revenge. And then 2 and 3 have to figure out, do we do that again and we give him something else to be revengeful of, or do we just, like, I don't know, let him just shoot people and hope to God that, like, he finds his past just a cop. And like with. Yeah, and with three, he's able to get around that because Nancy Allen doesn't want to be in these anymore. And she's like, willing to come back for the third one if they kill her off like 30 minutes in. [01:34:55] Speaker A: Yeah, they really killed her off for [01:34:56] Speaker C: like, no reason apparently. I need to look more into this. Apparently she said she had like a dreadful time on and like, basically was just like, had. It was a nightmare for her and was like, I don't think I'll ever come back for this. But she came back for fans and it was like, okay, I'll do three, but you got to kill me off. Honestly, to answer your question, it's because if you're doing like the revenge aspect, I mean, because in terms of just. Yeah. Cuz like, my brain immediately goes like, if we're going like six or seven out of ten, but a guy could do some real goofy weird with it because it's just. [01:35:30] Speaker B: I don't know, like, I just had a eureka moment. [01:35:32] Speaker C: I know because it's not a great choice. It would. This is not even like my second or third. But like Adam Wingard was like the only person where like there's a cheekiness to like his decision making. Even something as like disastrous is like his death note choices. Like there is something there that is like you clearly put thought into these wild ass swings that just miss but there's still just like real commitment to it. [01:35:56] Speaker A: The guest and you're next are so good. [01:35:58] Speaker C: Yeah, I love, I love the guests [01:36:01] Speaker A: that I'm like, like that guy. [01:36:02] Speaker B: Like they still have me thinking, yeah, he's got something else. [01:36:06] Speaker C: Like, like if we like, if we like if we got Simon, like if Simon movie. Yeah, like Simon Barrett who did the guest into Blair Witch and did your next came back and did like helped him write the script maybe. But if they also just like full tilted revenge and didn't give a about the action aspect of it. Nicholas Winning Referen would be wild for like a neon drenched RoboCop that is just like it would be fast. [01:36:32] Speaker B: It would also be the most boring Robo. [01:36:34] Speaker C: Absolutely. [01:36:36] Speaker A: I'm one of those sickos who like loves like the only God forgives of the neon demons. I could just live in that. [01:36:44] Speaker C: Oh, I love Neon demon. [01:36:46] Speaker A: So I mean that's like he's one of those directors is like at this point it's like for sickos only. You know what I mean? It's like, it's like, all right, his movies are going to have like five lines of dialogue. It's going to be a lot of people sitting with like perfectly composed like Kubrickian shots with crazy neon. [01:37:01] Speaker C: Have you seen Refn's interview with Freakin? [01:37:03] Speaker A: Yeah, of course, of course. But yeah, yeah, they would never give him an IP in a million years. [01:37:09] Speaker B: No, no, no. [01:37:10] Speaker A: Because he does not seem like a dude who would compromise on anything. But I'm just trying to think of [01:37:15] Speaker C: who that would be. [01:37:15] Speaker A: Fun. I had a couple of thoughts that like, I don't even think this first guy I'm gonna mention has made movies I actively really dislike. But he is somebody who has like the ambition, like the thematic ambitions that I think he would could potentially do something interesting. Yeah, I think like maybe like an Alex Garland would be interesting. [01:37:39] Speaker C: Alex would be interesting. [01:37:41] Speaker A: Now he's made like men, which was like horrible. But you know, I think like his 28 days, 28 years later movies he just made like really impressed me with how outside the box those were and ambitious, like thematically they were. I think I'm like the only thing that's missing. And again, this doesn't have to be like. You don't have to try to do exactly what Verhoeven did. He's not like a very funny guy. He doesn't have a lot of humor in his stuff. His stuff is pretty self serious. So that would definitely be the kind of grim and gritty RoboCop reboot. But I think that could be interesting. Another one though, that. I think this is a left field choice. [01:38:26] Speaker B: I'm gonna be so mad if you say mine. [01:38:28] Speaker A: Oh, I don't think I will. But this is another like, for sickos only pick. [01:38:33] Speaker C: Okay. [01:38:34] Speaker A: But he hasn't made any science fiction films. But he has written science fiction novels. So like, I know he's got the concepts in him, which is like S. Craig Zoller. I don't know. No way. No way. [01:38:48] Speaker C: That's Craig Zahler. [01:38:50] Speaker B: That's exactly what I was gonna say. [01:38:51] Speaker A: Oh, Andy, please expand on why you think he would be a good bet. [01:38:55] Speaker C: Is this dragged across con? Oh, yeah. [01:38:59] Speaker B: His most appropriate resume piece for this. For a RoboCop film. Deplorable or not? Like, I think if he made a RoboCop film, it might be like, morally reprehensible. What he do with it. Oh, it would be, you think, just his sensibilities for like violence and bleak comedy and. And kind of just the. He seems very cynical about human nature. [01:39:26] Speaker A: Yes. [01:39:27] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:39:27] Speaker B: And just the fact that he has dealt with, you know, themes about law enforcement and stuff in the past would be just perfect. [01:39:35] Speaker A: My mind is blown. [01:39:36] Speaker B: He would make a nasty robocop. [01:39:38] Speaker C: He would. Honestly, that's why my brain. I. Because when you said it, I was like, oh, my God. Like when you said. I was like, it makes sense. It would just be. It would be nasty. It would be reprehensible. [01:39:49] Speaker B: Nobody would hire him to do it. Oh, no, I think he would do it. [01:39:54] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. [01:39:55] Speaker B: Asked to. [01:39:55] Speaker C: But I don't think anybody would make that if I were him and I was given that option. I think that's a trap. [01:40:02] Speaker A: He also, though, he's always one of those directors too, who like. Like you said, like the morally reprehensible. Where this might be like what a RoboCop reboot needs, where it's like he always gives himself just enough leeway to. You're like, are you in on the joke here? [01:40:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:40:17] Speaker A: Or do you really think these things? [01:40:18] Speaker B: It's like his movies just barely make it between the bars of like, transgressive and not quite regressive. [01:40:27] Speaker A: Yes. Yes. And I feel like, RoboCop kind of needs that. Where you're like, is this pro fascism, or is this, like, a condemnation of fascism? [01:40:37] Speaker C: I will say I do have two more options. [01:40:39] Speaker B: Okay. [01:40:40] Speaker C: One, that if it was 10 years ago, I'd fucking shit my pants if they announced this. Another one that if they announced it tomorrow, I'd be like, I could see that. [01:40:48] Speaker A: J.J. abrams. [01:40:52] Speaker C: I just took five. Psychic damage. Oh, God. The ten years ago would be Edgar Wright. That would be something where, like, I think pre Running man, pre Soho, which I like SoHo. Yeah. Just like, I think, like, he had that, like, after Hot Fuzz and even with at World's End working with, like, the Dark Knight Rises stunt choreographer for, like, that stuff. Like, he clearly has an eye and loves action movies. He could. He could still do it. [01:41:20] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Like, Running man was, like, kind of a. Like, did not live up to its potential. [01:41:26] Speaker C: That was. That was what I have a list for. [01:41:30] Speaker A: Right. [01:41:31] Speaker C: Seeing that in IMAX, going, if I had to pay $25 for this. But that is. That was a solid 6 out of 10 when I saw that. [01:41:39] Speaker A: But he's. He's got good. [01:41:41] Speaker C: He does. [01:41:42] Speaker A: He's somebody who would have a better shot at making a good one. [01:41:46] Speaker C: But if it was now, especially after what I like from his most recent stuff, I think Fede Alvarez would be somebody. I'd be like, fuck. I could see that. I could see him doing. Now. The social commentary. It's the social commentary aspect that is the one thing that is, like, because Verhoeven is so specific in how he does it, and when people kind of try to do his thing without trying to really mimic it, but just try to be cheeky, it. It just isn't the same. It just isn't the same. And it's hard. [01:42:14] Speaker A: And Fede Alvarez is such a great person to bring up because that actually seems like, realistically somebody who would get hired. [01:42:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:42:24] Speaker A: But, yeah, my. My thing about Fede Alvarez is, like, I think he would make a fun. Better than what we would likely get RoboCop kind of reboot. [01:42:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:42:33] Speaker A: I think Fede Alvarez is a guy who, like, makes these entertaining, and they're R rated and gruesome, but they're always, like, pretty safe within the lines. Like. [01:42:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it's what we were talking about when we were watching RoboCop 3 about how, like, nowadays the remakes and reboots we get are cosmetically returned to formula. Aesthetically very. Like, this is what we loved about the original, but still kind of hollow on the inside. [01:43:04] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:43:04] Speaker A: Yes. I mean, Alien Romulus is like. Like, on paper, kind of everything you want from an Alien movie. [01:43:11] Speaker B: And I really enjoyed that. [01:43:13] Speaker C: I really enjoyed Romulus. [01:43:14] Speaker A: I had a fun time with it, and I think that's probably how I'd feel about his RoboCop, where alien Romulus was like, the one thing that I think stopped it from just being a really fun time at the movies to a great Alien movie, which was like, oh, right. Part of what makes the Alien movies distinct is their weirdness and how everyone has this kind of. Of crazy ambition. And, like, that movie didn't really have that. But at the same time, there was something refreshing about just being like, oh, cool. It's actually like, a good, competent. It doesn't have all these unwieldy ideas [01:43:52] Speaker B: that it doesn't know what to do with. [01:43:54] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like the problem with the past ones where they were too ambitious and they just collapsed on their own way. So there was something nice about just being, like, all right, lean and mean. And, you know, RoboCop obviously has really just had one remake that nobody gave a shit about. So it's not like. [01:44:13] Speaker C: Well, yeah. [01:44:14] Speaker B: And it's just, I think, justice for Jose Petit. [01:44:17] Speaker A: Yeah. You know what? It wasn't the worst movie. [01:44:20] Speaker C: No, it's a six out of 10, I would say, at best. [01:44:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:44:26] Speaker C: Like, they clearly was confident enough that it kind of ended on, like, a weird cliffhanger, like, we'll be back. Kind of like, it was a weird. Like, Samuel Jackson may be the next villain of this series. [01:44:37] Speaker B: I mean, I'm sure if it had done what they hoped it would do, they would have made a bunch more. [01:44:43] Speaker C: Honestly, this is way more interesting than talking about RoboCop 3. So I'm still, like, it's a great way to wrap up. Because in my head, it's like, when you're doing robocop. Cause another thing that was, like, genuinely, like, if tomorrow it was announced that Chad Stahelski would be someone involved in a RoboCop film, I would be like, fuck, I love Stahelski. But the thing is, I don't want my RoboCop that mobile. I wanted to find a way to keep him as a brick house that is mobile. Like, he's difficult to get around, but if you know his strengths, you can make a fight scene much more captivating. [01:45:19] Speaker B: Because I also just don't know that, like, the Stahelski's general brand of, like. Like, the kind of gun, ballet, bullet, hell thing is really what RoboCop and [01:45:30] Speaker A: the Robo the RoboCop remake is kind of bad. [01:45:33] Speaker C: He's like, yeah, yeah, doing flips. [01:45:36] Speaker A: When he. [01:45:36] Speaker C: Tom Cruise runs in the RoboCop remake, you immediately go, that is a sin. [01:45:40] Speaker A: He can't do that. This isn't a robocop movie. [01:45:44] Speaker C: If he runs, it has to sound like he's got like anchors attached to his ankles and he's just like destroying concrete as he goes like, what do you. Tom Cruise runs in the remake. It's like, this is. No, I feel kind of bad. [01:45:57] Speaker A: I guess I don't feel bad for him, but, like, sometimes I'm a little bummed out with Joel Kinnaman in general because I feel like he's a guy who's like. He's like a good actor, but he just does not choose projects that work out for him. [01:46:10] Speaker C: It's again, he is. It is hilarious how clowned on he was in that first Suicide Squad movie. Understandably. So is Mr. Exposition. And then he comes back for the. Comes back for James Gunn's version. And I think I fucking love him in James Gunn Suicide Squad. And then, then he also does like a season of Altered Carbon, which is like a sci fi series on Netflix. [01:46:32] Speaker B: He's really good in. [01:46:33] Speaker C: He's really good for all. [01:46:34] Speaker B: For all mankind. [01:46:35] Speaker C: Apparently. He's fan. That's what he's been doing for like the last 10 years, it seems like, is for all mankind. And he now has a. I think he's back to a Swedish. Like, he's back to his hometown, like his homeland, doing like a Swedish series for Netflix in like his natural tongue. Because, like, I think I saw like new Swedish series with Joel Kinnaman and I was like, is he actually speaking? And it's like, okay, he's going full. Because, like, basically Kinnaman's whole thing was like, he did like, the way he describes it is he got straight off the boat, didn't get a lot of work for a while. And then he got the Killing from amc, which was like a four season, like, detector, like a detective drama, which [01:47:12] Speaker A: I've heard is like a pretty great show. [01:47:14] Speaker C: Yeah, it's like hits right before True Detective. Basically makes people go, oh, so this is what you want to do with like detectives now. [01:47:21] Speaker A: Right. [01:47:22] Speaker C: And then he got RoboCop writer off of the Killing and then that kind of happened. [01:47:27] Speaker B: I mean, as far as, like, big movies, he's. Yeah. Since then, just kind of bounced around in roles like that. [01:47:32] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:47:33] Speaker B: Movies like that that just aren't that exciting. [01:47:35] Speaker C: Honest to God, put Kinnamin in a fantasy Film make that man a giant. Like, I think giant. Like, like do like or like a. Gosh, it's not a giant. It's like in between. Is it a troll? No, I'm trying to think. It's. [01:47:51] Speaker B: It's. [01:47:51] Speaker C: It's a race that's like 7ft tall, 6ft tall. But like, it's like it's not a giant. [01:47:57] Speaker B: Like a giant and Harry Potter maybe. [01:47:59] Speaker C: I don't know. But like he just like. Yeah, it's like I think they're on the right track with that version. Having kid him in now we've seen where his career has gone. Like he has enough charisma and enough talent to hold a role like that. Yeah, just it's hard to do like 2 and 3. It's just hard to really capture that magic of Weller in that first film of the villains of the aesthetic. Like when we were talking about it, when three, I think was ending, I was like, there is a version of the RoboCop remake that is a thousand times different. If it came out after Force Awakens and Deadpool, that like every remake or [01:48:39] Speaker B: reboot that came out before Force Awakens would have been different. [01:48:42] Speaker C: Yo. Absolutely. I mean, it's like, it's like, yeah, like it's hilarious. Like, think about how like the female version, like the Female Ghostbusters is 2016, but is clearly in development while Force Awakens is like on the back end. And that would have not been the same type of movie had that had come out. [01:48:58] Speaker A: It is fun to kind of speculate on who should direct one just because it will happen. They will bring back RoboCop. [01:49:07] Speaker C: But the thing to you, because we [01:49:08] Speaker A: talked, RoboCop will return. [01:49:10] Speaker C: Well, well, because I was talking to both of you in classic. What I. What I do to do some extra homework on a trilogy that Andy will make fun about me later doing is that in 2023, the. The most recent RoboCop shit that we've gotten are two video games that are kind of like double A. They're basically like mid budget PlayStation, Xbox, PC games that have like triple A qualities. Like they're really trying to be like a big budget like Modern Warfare, almost like big bombastic shooter, but clearly there's some shortcuts here and there. And Rogue City is the first game. I haven't played the second game, but it seems very clear to this. And apparently I think Fred Decker had some narrative kind of consulting or maybe helped with the narrative of Rogue City. The Rogue City basically feels like what three should have been. It takes place Narratively, between two and three, they constantly talk about, oh, maybe there's gonna be a Japanese merger of ocp. There's this like, underground character named Bertha who's CCH Pounder and three. But like, basically, it's like Rogue City is just like giving you the reins and being like, go be robocop. It's literally a game where, like, your upgrade tree basically gives you the option to have more gore. Like, it's like, it basically wants you to blow everyone's head off. There's no. There's no arrest function there. There are occasional NPCs where you don't have to kill them. Yeah, but. And they're actually really. They're fun. They're fun written like writing wise. And Ann Lewis is back. They don't have Nancy Allen back, but they have Peter Weller as RoboCop. But it feels like that's the best case scenario for RoboCop now, which is like, with Weller still alive. Because, like, the one thing I'd be just. God, if they just. If they deep faked Weller in any way, shape or form, they hired somebody to be the body, and then when they take off the mask, you have like a deep fake Weller. Like, that would be the worst case scenario for like, if they did a Legacy sequel. Like, in a year or two, I'll [01:51:15] Speaker A: burn out on legacyquels too. I'm almost like, reboot it, you know, at this point. [01:51:20] Speaker C: Yeah, Like, I feel like it's just kind of like in robocop, it is one of those things where it's like, you can be like, well, we're doing another RoboCop because it's, you know, the original is so relevant. And the answer is, okay, then why? Why do it again if the original one is still so relevant? Like, it's so like, at least with something like Starship Troopers, I think there's enough cracks in the armor with that film that I can understand if someone wanted to redo that and almost kind of perfect certain aspects that maybe Verhoeven wasn't able to perfect or like, it was doing so many big concepts for such a. Like you said, like basically Barbie dollar narrative where it's like all these dolls kind of fighting with each other and not really much of a kind of narrative tied. They're like kind of character to that. [01:52:02] Speaker A: You could make a more earnest version of Starship where I feel like RoboCop is already earnest and already still funny with its satire. And like. And like I said, I think early on I was like, the movie has aged like remarkably well. [01:52:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:52:17] Speaker A: Especially like in its. Its messaging. [01:52:21] Speaker C: It's practical effects for sure. It's definitely the practicality of it. [01:52:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it's all of it. You know, and especially in a day where like it feels like, you know, America at least is kind of like ruled by like four different companies. Yeah. You know, I feel like that also has become more relevant now than it was in like 1988. [01:52:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Like you could definitely see like, yeah. The reasoning for wanting to do a remake. But then it would probably just be like we're doing Elon Elon Musk Light. And it's like, okay. Or it's like we're doing Peter Thiel Light. [01:52:57] Speaker A: Yes. [01:52:57] Speaker C: It's like, okay, cool. Well, whatever. Yeah. At the end of the day, it is just a robocop trilogy as a whole is like we've covered way worse trilogies on the pod. As much as I don't really like three. I think like rewatching it with you guys, I was like, there's like if I. If I am a child and I'm watching this, I probably am having a bit of a field day being like, oh my God, a kid gets to hang out with robocop. She whiz. Oh, if I'm not like, yeah. Jesus. Oh my gosh, that's so cool. But like, yeah, it just. To me, I would rather. As much as I do still. I like robocop too. I think I like it more. I think about it. But in honesty, I would just watch robocop three times. Then probably watch the trilogy back to back to back. [01:53:43] Speaker B: You watch the first RoboCop and then you'd watch the whole Animated series and then you. [01:53:47] Speaker C: Yeah, then I would watch the. The fan made our RoboCop remake. [01:53:51] Speaker A: Yes. [01:53:52] Speaker C: Just so I can watch the penis. The penis scene, which I is so. [01:53:55] Speaker A: And the RoboCop action TV series which [01:54:00] Speaker C: I have not seen which ran for way longer than I think anyone would have expected. [01:54:04] Speaker A: I was shocked by how many episodes there were on Prime Video. [01:54:07] Speaker C: Like, wow, there's probably a part like [01:54:09] Speaker A: a whole ass series. [01:54:10] Speaker C: There's probably a part of RoboCop 3 where there's some exec to is like maybe this is a backdoor pilot to us maybe just doing a TV show. Could we possibly do that? [01:54:18] Speaker A: It's weird how many of these like kind of geeky franchises had like ton. Like had like full on cable network TV shows. Like there was a Swamp Thing show that ran for years and years. [01:54:33] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:54:33] Speaker B: There's a whole season about like IP movie to TV show pipeline of the. [01:54:38] Speaker A: Yeah, there's a whole crow TV show with, like, Mark Dacaskis. [01:54:42] Speaker C: Yeah, there was. [01:54:44] Speaker A: I mean, all of them are terrible that I've just mentioned, but they exist. They are out there. [01:54:49] Speaker B: Oh, my gosh. [01:54:51] Speaker C: The Ron Perlman Beauty and the Beast. It's not Disney, but, like, clearly that exists in a way that, like, that's. That story kind of ties into, like, after Disney's film. It's like, well, there's more of that if you want that in the 90s. But I mean, yeah, Robocop is just an iconic film that has aged incredibly fucking well, even nearly 40 years later. It is. It is a blast. RoboCop 2 is fun. And then RoboCop 3 is. RoboCop 3. Like, it's. There's not really. Like, you look at that poster and you're like, oh, gee, I bet if it's half this Qu. Half as fun as this poster, it's probably not really this. It's like. No, it's. It is exactly what it is. But, Mitch, thank you so much for in, you know, involving us with your. This trilogy and, you know, really bringing us to your podcast. [01:55:40] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:55:41] Speaker B: Bringing it to our table. [01:55:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:55:42] Speaker A: I'm glad I peer pressured you guys. [01:55:46] Speaker C: Yeah. Peer pressured us with good film. [01:55:50] Speaker A: At least one good movie. [01:55:51] Speaker C: Yeah. Honestly, after the amount we put you through with Silent Night, Deadly Night, being involved in that, and then. [01:55:57] Speaker B: Yeah, full transparency. Mitch did not hound us to do this trilogy. No, no, no. Like, two or three years ago. Hey, if you guys ever do RoboCop, I want it. [01:56:07] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:56:07] Speaker B: And then, like, when we. I think when we did Silent Night, Deadly Night, you were like, hey, so we should do robocop. [01:56:15] Speaker C: Yeah. And then, like, the. The single neuron in my brain activated. Like, yes, get the talk about RoboCop. Yeah, I'm fine with that. [01:56:21] Speaker A: When it's at its peak relevance. [01:56:24] Speaker C: Absolutely. [01:56:26] Speaker A: The call trip. [01:56:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:56:27] Speaker C: Mitch, is there anything you would like to plug or you talk about look for in the future or just, you know. [01:56:32] Speaker A: You know, I'm probably gonna have a few things. I think I just reviewed a random 4K for Midwest film Journal. Cutter's Way, if you've never seen that movie. [01:56:41] Speaker C: I've not. [01:56:42] Speaker A: Jeff Bridges. Excellent film. [01:56:43] Speaker C: Okay. [01:56:45] Speaker A: But, yeah, I think I'm gonna be trying to review some more home video releases for Middle west film journals. [01:56:50] Speaker C: Well, hell yeah. [01:56:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Keep an eye out, or you can follow me on letterbox at Wounded Underscore Kite. Yeah. [01:56:57] Speaker C: Hell, yeah. Well, again, can't wait for the next trilogy to do together. If you have one, whether it's painful or not, please send it our way. [01:57:07] Speaker A: I certainly will. [01:57:09] Speaker C: And that makes it our final trilogy of May. [01:57:12] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. [01:57:13] Speaker C: And going into June we have. We have a trilogy that ties into a iconic American auteurs. Next film. I don't think it's his last film, but it is a film that is a big deal considering it has John Williams back. I think for the Score has a huge cast involved, it's a big budget film and it also is just yet another mark in this crazy filmography this man has. But to honor the release of Disclosure Day, directed by Steven Spielberg, we are discussing his very first films in A Rise of Spielberg. [01:57:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:57:51] Speaker C: We are discussing the TV film Duel, Sugarland. Express. What? Oh, I was trying to see clarify that I had that right. Okay, good. [01:58:03] Speaker B: That's right. [01:58:04] Speaker C: Express. And then a little film. It's an indie film that you probably have heard of. It's not his biggest film in the world, but Jaws, a film that I think some people might have heard of. [01:58:13] Speaker A: Steven Spielberg. [01:58:15] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [01:58:17] Speaker B: Most people think we're saying Soderbergh, but yeah, yeah. [01:58:22] Speaker C: He executive produced the Michael Bay Transformers films. [01:58:25] Speaker A: Oh, Steven Spielberg. [01:58:28] Speaker C: There you go. Oh, sorry. [01:58:30] Speaker B: Ready Player one. [01:58:31] Speaker C: It's Mitch's favorite film. Ready Player. [01:58:33] Speaker A: Oh, he did North. Okay. [01:58:37] Speaker C: Did he do North? [01:58:38] Speaker A: He did. [01:58:39] Speaker C: Oh my God. I didn't know he did. [01:58:41] Speaker A: Wait. I think so. [01:58:42] Speaker C: Okay, now I gotta check it does. [01:58:45] Speaker A: Man, that joke really fell flat. [01:58:47] Speaker C: No, I know, exactly. It's even better. Jamie, pull that out. Jamie, make sure Mitch is right. Jarvis, [01:58:56] Speaker A: I love how I type in north on on IMDb and it's like the 10th one. [01:59:02] Speaker C: I mean, that makes sense. [01:59:05] Speaker A: It's Rob Reiner. [01:59:07] Speaker C: That honestly. That honestly makes. Makes the most sense. But yeah, we're doing Spielberg, a man that has so many films under his belt, but it's fun to see just the films that kind of started him [01:59:22] Speaker B: up, leading to probably the most. I mean, hard to go bigger than Spielberg, but easily probably the most, you know, prolific and high profile director. We've done a rise of. For. [01:59:34] Speaker C: For sure. [01:59:34] Speaker B: So it'll be really cool to go back to his roots. [01:59:37] Speaker C: Yeah. Because again, I think most people can assume Jaws is his very first film. And while it is his first big hit. [01:59:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:59:45] Speaker C: Sugar Land expresses his first theatrical film. And then also most people who of course have delved deep into the Spielberg filmography know that a lot of people really, you know, admire his television film for Duel, which I'm excited. I can't wait to talk about it. Tune in on. Gosh, I don't even remember the date off time. [02:00:07] Speaker B: 20th. [02:00:07] Speaker C: June 20th. Is it the 20th? [02:00:10] Speaker B: No. June 6th. [02:00:11] Speaker C: June 6th. [02:00:12] Speaker B: And the next one is June 20th. [02:00:14] Speaker C: Yes. Tune in June 6th for the Rise of Spielberg episode. But as always, I'm Logan Sowash. [02:00:21] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [02:00:22] Speaker C: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.