Episode 116: The Silent Night Deadly Night Trilogy (with Mitch Ringenberg)

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello everyone. Logan from the future here. I know it's been a while since I've jumped in to give a disclaimer for an episode. I hope everyone is having a phenomenal holiday season. And speaking of the holidays, when it comes to the Christmas episode you're about to listen to, our guest's audio gets a little funky about halfway through the episode. You'll still be able to hear what he has to say in terms of this wild trilogy. But if you do notice a massive difference in the audio quality halfway through the episode, it's something that we couldn't really control in the recording. Maybe it was too much holiday cheer. Who really knows? But besides that, enjoy the episode as we talk about a wild Christmas slasher trilogy in the Silent Night Deadly Night trilogy. Mitch, you promised us that if you could do this episode today, you would do a falsetto rendition of a certain song. Or are you gonna start the episode? [00:01:11] Speaker B: You know, I don't know if I'm quite recovering, so next time you come, I will. Absolutely. Like a choir boy. You can hear my angelic pipes. [00:01:23] Speaker C: We'll get you in for an Easter hymn next spring. [00:01:26] Speaker B: Thank you for holding me accountable for that, though. [00:01:27] Speaker C: I do. Yeah. [00:01:28] Speaker B: I respect that. [00:01:30] Speaker A: My pleasure. Did I say ho, ho, ho for the last one? I can't remember. [00:01:34] Speaker C: I think you did. I think you tried to anyway. [00:01:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Because every time I try to do a cold open like that with you, you stare right at me and I lock eyes with you and it just throws me off. Alright. Hello everyone. Welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan, so watch. [00:01:51] Speaker C: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:01:52] Speaker A: And on ODD Trilogies, we take a trio of films that are tied by cast and crew thematic elements or just. And we discuss the good, the bad and the weird surrounding each film. And today is our final trilogy for the year. And you know, these last few Decembers, I think we have kind of, you know, felt like there wasn't enough Christmas content to really warrant an ODD Trilogies episode. But this year, on top of our Zemeckis CGI trilogy that we just released, we thought what better way to end the year with a killer Santa Claus slasher trilogy? The Silent Night Deadly Night trilogy, which includes 1984 Silent Night Deadly Night, 1987 Silent Night Deadly Night Part 2, and then 1989 Silent Night Deadly Night 3. I think it dropped the part colon. Yeah, better watch out. And we just. We couldn't do this alone. We thought it'd be a blast to have another guest with us. A first Timer for the pod. Hopefully not the last time. Introduce yourself. New guest. [00:02:57] Speaker B: Yeah. Hey, my name is Mitch Ringenberg. I'm a fellow member of the Indiana Film Journalist association and writer for Midwest Film Journal, and also kind of an amateur expert on obscure shitty horror franchises. [00:03:17] Speaker A: It's funny how so many people at the ifja could say that about themselves. [00:03:22] Speaker B: You called the right guy, I think, for this one. [00:03:26] Speaker A: Is it really that obscure if we all are aware of it? [00:03:29] Speaker B: That's true. I think too the layman. [00:03:32] Speaker A: Oh, it's the funny. [00:03:33] Speaker B: This would be a little more on the obscure side. [00:03:34] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, it's funny. Yeah. Cause I think one of the reasons when we, you know, because we start every year kind of going down the list of what we could do. And I brought this up to Annie's attention mainly because one, the first film was so controversial when it came out that it basically was considered almost demonic to some many people that they would do a killer Santa Claus film. And two, for those who are going to try and correct us in the fact that this is a trilogy, yes, we. We are all aware that there are five films in this franchise. Seven if you include remakes, because there's actually a Silent Night, Deadly Night remake technically out now or, you know, was maybe limited release and will be on digital probably sometime soon. But the thing is, is that of the five films, four and five are not directly connected to the first three. And even with that in mind, we all still watched all five films. It was because I. The plan. [00:04:36] Speaker C: Go the extra mile with our research on this podcast. The plan. [00:04:39] Speaker A: Initially, I think when Andy and I were talking about this trilogy, I thought it was an unspoken rule that Andy was not even going to deal with 4 and 5. I was going to do it. And then Andy was like, I'm pretty sure Mitch has seen both of those, so he might rewatch those. [00:04:54] Speaker C: Yeah, I think I was wrong about that though, right, Mitch? [00:04:56] Speaker B: I had not. So to my shock, you know, I had actually not seen Part three or part five. For some reason I had skipped right before I had seen four, I had seen four. Now three, I can understand not remembering as we'll get to because. [00:05:17] Speaker A: Oh yeah. [00:05:19] Speaker B: But five, watching that, I was like, oh, I've definitely never seen this movie. [00:05:23] Speaker A: Oh yeah, that was a treat. That was a red letter media. I think one of their best of the worst was five, and I had seen a clip or two from that episode. And then when we watched the trailer for five, I went, holy shit, I think I've seen some of this insane stuff before. Yeah, it is. I very, I think, very similar to you, Mitch. I am an absolute glutton for punishment when it comes to horror franchises that go too long, especially horror franchises that are obscure as shit. Like this one is. So I pulled out all stops. I bought the original film on 4k. I bought all the other films on Blu Ray. Wow. And just. Well, they have. It's. It's so funny, too. One is by itself on 4K, and it was like 12 bucks because it was, like, a sale at the time. But you can't watch the unrated version of that film on 4K. It's only on Blu Ray. So that's weird as hell. Two is its own Blu Ray. And then I think Vestin or vestren video has 3, 4, and 5. So they just have, like, a trilogy combo. Combo Blu Ray. And it has, like, this really insanely sick art of Clint Howard, the guy that plays Ricky in three, and Mickey Rooney's, like, horrified faces on, like, a Christmas ornament, as well as, like, kooky happening around it. And I was like, I gotta have these. [00:06:49] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Vestrum Video puts out some good stuff. I bought. I bought a collection of these movies called the Dentist, the series about a killer dentist. And the guy who directed those two films directed Part four. [00:07:02] Speaker A: Brian. [00:07:03] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:03] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:07:04] Speaker B: He might get a shout out later. [00:07:10] Speaker A: But, yeah. In case you were still unaware of what the Silent Night, Deadly Night films, whether you weren't alive when that first film came out or it's been so long, you were like, oh, my gosh, I forgot that this was even a thing. It is just a killer Santa Claus series at first. The first three films are the only films that have a killer Santa Claus to a degree, or at least a character who has played a killer Santa Claus. Because I can't even commit to that, really. [00:07:35] Speaker C: Primarily just one and two. [00:07:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. [00:07:38] Speaker C: Well, no, honestly, just one. [00:07:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:40] Speaker B: I was like, even two barely touches on it. [00:07:43] Speaker A: Two is like, well, we have to do this. [00:07:45] Speaker C: The best part about this franchise, I guess, is that it, like, immediately loses the plot, like, as soon as the first film is done, maybe before the first film is done, just completely abandons the premise. [00:08:01] Speaker A: Well, the fact that it's, like, from the poster, like, it was going into that first film, watching it, like, with my roommates, we were like. We all made drinks together. We're like, we're gonna get. We're gonna get trashed. We're gonna watch the first two films. It's gonna be great. And watching that first film being like, is this just a Halloween knockoff. It's just. Just like we're gonna do a Halloween type scenario, but it's just Christmas instead. And lo and behold, if you look at that poster, though, they do kind of sell it as that in certain ways because they say if you've survived Halloween, make sure you survive Christmas. And so it's like, it's almost trying to pull that in a weird way, even though it's very not the same type of movie. [00:08:44] Speaker B: Well, there's, you know, was a. An onslaught of these holiday themed slashers that came out in the wake of Halloween. You have, like, New Year's, evil, April Fool's Day, My Bloody Valentine, Friday the 13th, obviously. And, you know, they all kind of follow a similar template, which we can like, discuss with this first one as well. [00:09:09] Speaker A: Is Mommie Dearest a happy Mother's Day slasher or is that something else? [00:09:13] Speaker B: There's a Mother's Day. There's a movie called Slasher called Mother's Day. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Oh, there is a slasher called Mother's Day. [00:09:18] Speaker B: Yeah, there's one called Mother's Day. [00:09:20] Speaker C: Not to be confused with the Mother's Day we've talked about on this pod. [00:09:23] Speaker A: Yes. Oh, that's right. We did talk about Mother's Day this year. I forgot about that. [00:09:28] Speaker B: I mean, they did it just about every holiday. And they all kind of follow the similar, like, template of, like, there's a childhood trauma that, like, then leads this person into becoming like a crazed killer later. You know, roughly. They all. It starts off with some tragedy that then, you know, and even like as recently as something like Thanksgiving, like, very much is kind of a throwback to those holiday slashers and follows a similar template. [00:09:59] Speaker A: Which was started out as a grindhouse joke trailer that just took like 13, 14 years just to turn to an actual film. Yeah, but like, it's funny bringing up all those other fiat films that came out of the wake of Halloween. There is a consistent tone, especially with Friday the 13th and even my Bloody Valentine. And like, the killers in those films are not the protagonist, which is always in like, in Halloween's the same way, where it's like they are the looming antagonistic force that follows the normal people that just so happen to get pulled into this. [00:10:33] Speaker C: Caught up in it. [00:10:33] Speaker A: Silent Night, Deadly Night decides to revolve solely around Billy Campbell, who is the boy that is unfortunately traumatized by a man in a Santa outfit killing his father, assaulting his mother, and then also killing his mother in front of him, and then just, I guess, leaves it kind of Just cuts away before we find. He clearly knows where Billy is as a child. But like, it doesn't. It just. They never find that guy again. The funniest part about this franchise too is this first film has open ended aspects that like, you could technically play upon a bit more. Like, I am so shocked that they have a character like the grandpa from the first film who is absolutely fucking bonkers. That man, when he pulls in the child and just completely just unloads on him. Santa is the worst thing. He's gonna kill you if you're not a good boy. And he's in it for a scene and he never comes back again. [00:11:36] Speaker C: And we never know why he says that, like why he's traumatized about scenes. [00:11:42] Speaker A: Did a Santa fuck your wife? Why is this like, why is it so important to you? And it's, oh my gosh, so silly out the gate. But it takes itself genuinely very seriously to an extent. Like it is almost like trying to pretend it's not a sleazy slasher, which it pretty much is as soon as it gets to like adult Billy. [00:12:06] Speaker B: Yeah, it plays things fairly straightforward, but there are some like, jarring moments that really change up the tone that we can discuss later. I think we could all agree that the first Silent Night, Deadly Night has perhaps the greatest montage in cinema history of Billy working at the department store. [00:12:32] Speaker A: Oh my God, him at the department. It just, it's just so funny how it takes its time too. Again, another aspect of it, like it really, it does that classic, like low budget and or shitty low budget horror film kind of aspect where it's like, this is 90 minutes, but we don't have enough content for 90 minutes. So we kind of have to spread it out real thin. So we get a toy store montage. We get to learn about everybody who works at the toy store, who owns the toy store. The love interest that tied to the toy store. There's much, so, so much toy store shit. [00:13:13] Speaker B: It also has this thing that I feel like only existed in the 80s where like even like the shittiest low budget movie would have songs that were like seemingly made for that film. You know, like they wouldn't be using like, like other popular songs. Like, and there's really goofy musical choices here, like from the montage obviously with the warm side of the door. But also like even like scenes where we get that like establishing shot of the orphanage and there's like this song where this lady's like sweet little baby, you know, if you remember that. So you know, this is Very much a product of its time in terms of the style, which I. Which I. I appreciate. [00:14:01] Speaker A: And also, if they. If you bet the newest one, too. If it has. If the newest one has a toy store scene, there is probably no recognizable brands in that toy store because they don't want to get sued. The original Silent Deadly Night has fucking Return of the Jedi toys out in the open. There's Transformers. It's just like. It feels like a low. It feels like a small toy store, genuinely, because of all the random bullshit that's in that toy store. [00:14:27] Speaker C: I mean, it was probably just shot in a functioning toy store, probably. [00:14:30] Speaker A: You know, it looks like a warehouse a little bit too. [00:14:34] Speaker B: Yeah. It's interesting that they got away with that. [00:14:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:37] Speaker B: Those are some huge brand names, because. [00:14:41] Speaker A: It'S like they're not even hiding it either. It's like. Is. At a certain point, I was like, is that a Return of the Jedi? And then at one point, it cuts the montage, and this. The Return of the Jedi logo is, like, on the left side of the screen while everything's happening on the right. I was like, they're just showing off toys that they don't have rights to. It's totally fine, I guess. [00:15:01] Speaker C: Yeah. But the toy store section of this movie, I just love. I mean, going off what you said, Logan, about how much it drags out the plot. I love how it spends all that time familiarizing you with the toy store, the things he does at the toy store, all the people he works with at the toy store, as if they're, like, you know, gonna be pivotal characters in this story or something. And then they all die. In his first scene as the killer. [00:15:30] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:15:31] Speaker C: Like he kills all of them and spends the rest of the movie killing people we don't know. [00:15:35] Speaker A: The plot basically, is. It starts with that opening with him and his family. His family dies. He's traumatized. Santa. Santa is gonna kill him. Then we cut to him and his brother being in an orphanage a few years later, which I guess because Ricky is just. Ricky's like, not even one. Which is the funniest part of Part two is everything he recollects is like, he doesn't remember. You can't remember any of that in Part two? [00:16:01] Speaker B: Yeah. He's barely a character in this one, which is interesting that he becomes so pivotal to the series later on. [00:16:10] Speaker A: There's a later. There's a later wild scene in the first film that I did not even realize it happened to Ricky specifically until Part two when they show the flashback and I mean, we'll jump around this whole thing. But like when the Santa gets shot in front of the orphanage, part two says, that was Ricky that solved that Santa that like got the blood on his face when that happened. Oh my God. It just, it goes, yeah, parents get killed, traumatized child, orphanage traumatized child because he's abused by the worst, worst nun in cinema history or one of the worst nuns in cinema history. [00:16:52] Speaker C: 3. [00:16:54] Speaker A: And that the, the orphanage stuff is at least 10 to 15 minutes. So it's another bit of chunk and then we get to toy store. And then at that point you're like, okay, we have to get to killing suit because this 18 year old who looks 32 has to be ready to get like gear up. He's got to get forced in that suit at some point. And then we get the montage and then we get like time with him outside the suit. And I was like, they're putting time into this. [00:17:21] Speaker B: The montage is almost like if, if you just showed that montage to somebody, you would think it was like from like a 1980s, like family friendly sitcom, you know, like, the tone of it is so incredibly wholesome. And I guess the, the, the point of it is to show us that, hey, Billy's okay. He's well adjusted. He won't possibly turn into a murderous, you know, lunatic at any point. [00:17:57] Speaker C: Even though every time he sees Santa or hears the name Santa Claus, you basically get the kill bill. Like, like Thousand Yard Stairs. [00:18:08] Speaker A: Yeah, that like he's got like the chick from Sleepaway Camps, like giant eyes every single time. [00:18:14] Speaker B: Yeah, he basically turns into the Terminator at like any, any Santa imagery, which is insane that he would make sense. [00:18:22] Speaker A: Too, because he's built, built like an Android. Like the guy, the guy that think I plays Billy is 20 or 21 when this film came out. But like, yeah, he is built and he is intimidated enough that like, yeah, if you, if this guy is gonna snap, he's gonna fuck shit up. And the actor, I think if I will give any props to this movie, I think this actor does a solid job and does the best he can with the little he's given about Billy as a traumatized young adult who just snaps at the worst point in time and then just has like. No. And he, he just, he has his most fun with like, out of everyone in this movie, he seems like he's the one having the most fun out of it. Like, he just, especially when he starts because he. Because I have to talk to you both about this because I might go insane. If I can't remember this, he's the one that says punished when he kills somebody. [00:19:17] Speaker C: Billy. [00:19:18] Speaker A: And then Ricky is the one that starts saying naughty. Right, right, right, right. [00:19:22] Speaker C: And then Billy might say naughty like once or something like that, but then. [00:19:27] Speaker A: He starts going punished. [00:19:28] Speaker C: But then Ricky's the one who at the very end of the film says naughty. [00:19:32] Speaker A: And then part two is just Naughty City. It's like everybody's fucking naughty and too. [00:19:37] Speaker B: Yeah, they do set up part two. And I will say, like, to me personally, you know, like, I guess to reveal like my thoughts a little bit on the first movie is like, I think this, these, you know, when I, when you guys asked me on here, I was excited because these kind of movies, these like low rent 80 slashers, these are kind of like a warm blanket to me when I'm watching these, you know. [00:20:08] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Same boat. [00:20:10] Speaker B: Yeah. They just go down so smooth and like this has like. I wouldn't say this is like an, you know, an A tier or S tier, whatever. Like, you know, top, top shelf 80 slasher, but like, it's a solid one in my opinion. It has enough, like, eccentricities with the acting of Billy, like that goofy montage. There's a couple kind of creative, fun kills, nothing like mind blowing and, you know, lots of gore and nudity. Like you would want out of these things. Yeah. And it has enough of, I think like a quirky tone that this is a. This is a pretty like, enjoyable watch. If this, if this kind of movie is your thing. [00:21:01] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, it was. It was really fun to watch. It just, it was, I think, fascinating. Just because, you know, for decades hearing about this movie every so often, like, no one, really. I've never met anyone who's been an avid lover of this movie, but most people who love slashers are aware of when this came out, how controversial it was, how it was considered, like, you know, this movie needs to get banned because it's gonna ruin the children, as if it's not rated R and very clearly made for adults. [00:21:30] Speaker B: So that was actually totally new to me. I did not know that at all. [00:21:34] Speaker A: Really? You did know that? No, that's what I was aware of. I did not learn that it was so controversial. [00:21:41] Speaker B: Yeah, I didn't know that until reading the Wikipedia for it after I rewatched this. And this is only my third time seeing it, so I don't know how that ever escape me. But you're right, it is kind of. [00:21:50] Speaker A: Apparently. Yeah. People treated it like it was the first killer Santa Claus movie, but literally I think two or three years before, there was a killer Santa Claus movie, I think, called Christmas Evil. So. Which is crazy. [00:22:04] Speaker B: Which is much better than. [00:22:06] Speaker A: I am curious. I am curious. Going through these movies, I was like, I mean, I've gone through all the Silent Night, Deadly Nights. At least I could do is watch Christmas Evil at some point. [00:22:15] Speaker B: That is head and shoulders. But I think any of these. [00:22:18] Speaker A: Okay. No, I mean, it's. This movie is really. I think it's really fun. It's. It's sleazy. That classic 80s vibe that is like, you know, if you are somebody. I think I'm not gonna speak for both of you, but if you're in the same boat, you can also chime in. But like, if you're somebody who, like, you know, does like Christmas movies, but, like, has seen the same ones for so long, it's just kind of fun to watch something that is technically a Christmas film that is also just a sleazy, gory, over the top, at times 80s slasher that, like, is oozed in Christmas, which I never thought I would give this movie props for until the later films decide to. The rest of them, Christmas aside. Yeah, the rest of them, with four being the biggest offender of a film that is called Silent Night, Deadly Night. And I think has a single Christmas. [00:23:11] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:23:13] Speaker A: And it's. But I think it's just fascinating how the film just has this energy of like, they have the base idea down. They have the characters they want to focus on. They clearly know how they want to end this movie. But that middle piece, once he starts to kill people, it is so aimless as to, like, who he is killing. After the toy store goes away, it. [00:23:33] Speaker C: Is so cut to somewhere else in the city and he shows up. [00:23:38] Speaker A: He kills everyone in the toy store in the span of like 5 to 10 minutes. [00:23:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:42] Speaker A: In kooky ways. Like, I do think it's funny that the most recent silent on Deadly Night is using the arrow scene from the original film as, like the. Oh, we're doing that again. Like the arrow scene in the first. It is funny how there's little scenes in there, but, like, once he leaves. No, you go ahead. [00:24:01] Speaker B: Oh, no. It's interesting that this. This remake coming out, and I believe it comes up next Weekend, is the second remake that this movie has received. [00:24:12] Speaker C: There's one in 2012. [00:24:13] Speaker B: Yes, there's one in 2012 with Malcolm McDowell, I believe. And, you know, it's this. [00:24:22] Speaker A: To me. [00:24:26] Speaker B: To me, I feel like this is not that famous of a slasher movie to have received so many remakes in sequel. So it's just, it's, you know, I'm not complaining. Like, you know, I'll be. I'm sure I'll see it opening weekend. But it's just surprising to me. [00:24:47] Speaker C: Christmas Evil has not, you know, enjoyed the same fanfare over the decades. [00:24:52] Speaker A: And crazy too is I would argue that Black Christmas is more of a cult classic than probably this is. And that has two remakes as well. So it's like kind of wild that, like, I think there's just somebody at a studio, they get a cold shiver at night and they're like, ah, is there a Christmas horror film we could remake this year? Anything? And it's like, oh, well, there actually are two cult classics. One's a sleazy 80s film and one's made by the guy that did A Christmas Story that's surprisingly pretty phenomenal in a lot of places. [00:25:23] Speaker B: Yes. Like, the first Black Christmas is like a legitimately great horror film. [00:25:27] Speaker A: I love. Yeah, we loved that. The first remake is fucking disgusting. [00:25:33] Speaker B: And the second one is not much better. [00:25:35] Speaker A: No, no, no, no. But, well, true. [00:25:37] Speaker C: But yeah, Black Xmas as it was stylized in like 2006 or whatever is, you know, perhaps Silent Night, Deadly Night. Four levels of unpleasant at certain points. [00:25:50] Speaker A: Agreed. There's no lesbian witches. That makes it even worse. It makes it even worse. [00:25:55] Speaker C: Or bugs. No bugs or bugs. [00:25:56] Speaker A: Or Screaming Mad George. [00:25:58] Speaker C: Just skin cookies. [00:25:59] Speaker A: Yeah. And jaundice. It's skin cookies and jaundice. [00:26:04] Speaker B: Lots of jaundice. Lots of yellow skin. [00:26:06] Speaker A: But I mean, like. Because I think the most iconic kills from this movie are probably. It's the arrow. He has an ax at some point. Because I think every one of the remakes has had a Santa Claus holding an ax. And then the. I would say my favorite. My favorite actual Billy kill. Because at a certain point the kills in this film get mixed up with Billy and then accidental deaths or like tertiary other characters do this. But I would say it's. It's the. Yes, because they're doing that for the remake. They show that in the trailer. And I was like, you kind of have to do that. [00:26:42] Speaker C: Sure. [00:26:43] Speaker A: It's rad. And also it's funny because, like, that whole scene setup is like two teens are about to fuck on a pool table. And like the babysitter. Because they're babysitters because, of course, Halloween esque. And then like, there's a child upstairs and they have the door wide open, so they have to go make sure the child's okay. And then she Goes up, she opens the door to Billy, and then Billy's, like, throwing her all over the place. And then picks her up from, like, ass and then just stabs her onto the antlers. [00:27:14] Speaker C: Yeah. Puts her on a deer that's up on the wall. [00:27:17] Speaker A: But it's a gnarly deer. Like, you know, it has to be used. [00:27:21] Speaker B: And I think that's been, like, repeated, like, in a couple of horror movies. [00:27:24] Speaker A: I don't know. This is the first, probably. [00:27:25] Speaker B: Yeah. But yes, I've definitely seen that pop up a couple more times. And I'm curious, like, if this is just my brain that thought this way. But a lot of times some of these slasher movies almost try to be, like, whodunits. And this is not, obviously, at all. [00:27:44] Speaker C: Because the main character is. [00:27:45] Speaker B: Is the killer. But the first time I ever watched this, I was probably, like, 20 or something, you know, much younger, but, like. [00:27:55] Speaker C: I barely able to read. [00:27:56] Speaker B: Barely able to read. It's probably just turned 22. [00:27:59] Speaker A: So. [00:28:00] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. I'm 22 now. But I was assuming that this was going to be a misdirect that like. Like, building it up. I'm like, okay, like, Billy's not going to be the killer just because. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, setting it up. Like, it's too easy if he's just the killer. I'm like, yeah, nope, he is. No surprise. [00:28:29] Speaker A: There is an angle that I can see. One of the reasons why you want to. You could remake this. And I think even the My Bloody Valentine kind of does this with this remake, but almost dealing with the tragedy surrounding the trauma of the characters. Like, Billy is a very traumatic kid, is a very traumatic person. Literally from the first 30 minutes, maybe first 35 minutes of the film, it is just straight. It's, oops, all trauma for this kid until he starts to work at the toy store when he starts to like, hey, this girl's kind of cute. I kind of like her. Hey, these old people are nice to me. Hey, I'm good at this job. This is kind of normal. I'm not used to this. Like, that's the only time from not getting beaten by a nun, nearly killed by a man in a Santa outfit, and nearly, like, nearly beating the shit out of the Santa that shows up at the orphanage. Like, there's all these other things that are, like, triggering him. There's also the random scene where he's going through the hallway and there's like, I assume another nun and like, a pre. Somebody. Two people are in a random Room that, like, he sees through a keyhole. Because they also show the scene in Part two, again, as if Ricky was there for that scene. So it's like. Because, again, it's like It. I think it's those moments where it's like, oh, that's right. There's the sleazy 80s aspect of it all, which is we are seeing people randomly have sex because sex sells. People are gonna see. People are gonna be like, oh, my gosh, it's so. It's so naughty. Or, you know, as Ricky would say. And it is kind of this. You know, it's just really. It's fun all the way through. But I do think it does when it gets to that point of, like, who's Billy gonna kill next? And then there's just like, a large swath of the movie where Billy is not there. He is. He's hiding. He's hiding. He doesn't show up until the. Behind the orphanage after, like, 10 to 15 minutes. [00:30:22] Speaker C: Right. [00:30:22] Speaker A: And we get, like. In that process, we get like, the whole thing about, you know, the police. Like, there's a police detective that's involved that I thought was supposed to be the detective in three. They're not related in any way, so that doesn't matter. But. So there's no legacy characters in this series. Really. There's no legacy characters in the series other than the brothers and the nuns. Because, like, there's the. There's the nice nun and there's the evil nun, the young nice nun who I. Who is recasted in the sequel but is technically in it. Well. [00:30:53] Speaker B: And the trajectory of Ricky is confusing from part one, two, especially three. Like. [00:31:08] Speaker A: Mitch, that's the nicest way you could have said. Seems like they had no plan. [00:31:13] Speaker C: And in two, it's not confusing at all because they just redo part one. But with Ricky in it. [00:31:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:31:19] Speaker B: You're. You don't even need to watch the first one if you. [00:31:22] Speaker A: Which is. Again, you can absolutely. [00:31:24] Speaker B: You can absolutely just watch part two. [00:31:27] Speaker A: I cannot wait to talk more about part two, but I just. Because that movie was. I felt like a, like, coming to Jesus moment in a way that I never thought of. So bad. Yeah, so bad. It's good film. I had heard so long about seeing it in full, being like, this is one of the greatest dumpster fires I think I've ever watched just unfold in front of me. [00:31:50] Speaker B: Well, in a way, part two is in its own kind of Internet meme way. [00:31:55] Speaker A: Yep. [00:31:56] Speaker B: I feel like part two is almost as famous as part one. In the sense that, like that garbage day clip, literally. [00:32:03] Speaker C: Yeah, just the garbage day. [00:32:04] Speaker A: Just the garbage day clip. [00:32:05] Speaker B: That's That. I remember that. That's like early YouTube. YouTube, like 2009 sort of viral video. [00:32:14] Speaker C: One of those, like, compilations of ridiculous kills in horror movies. [00:32:20] Speaker A: Well, it's the first film, I think that. [00:32:21] Speaker C: And like Troll 2 or whatever the. [00:32:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:32:24] Speaker A: They're eating her alive. They're gonna eat me. It's. Yeah, it's. But I think with the first film, the most iconic part, at least that I always remembered, was the poster, which is just a chimney Santa arm and then an ax coming out of it. Like that Was that. [00:32:39] Speaker C: Oh, I thought you meant the poster for two. [00:32:40] Speaker A: No, the poster for two is incredible. Which is just a pistol and a Christmas ornament. So lazy. But like, just to get through one because I just want to talk about two. So. Yeah, clearly we all want to talk about two really badly. But one, Billy kills some random teenagers in a house. He throws a woman on antlers. He throws her boyfriend through a window. [00:33:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:33:03] Speaker A: And he gets stabbed through that with glass. The nice nuns trying to find Billy because she's worried about him because now they found out everyone in the toy store is dead because. Which again, toy store massacre goes. Billy sees that the girl he likes is actually being hit on by like his shittier, kind of like older maybe assistant manager guy. He nearly assaults her. He kills that guy because out of anger, the woman goes, you're a monster. He kills her, kills the owner of the toy store. And then the other. Like this. I guess the oldest woman who works in the team was probably just in her early 40s, probably in this film gets like shot in the back with an arrow and it's just killed. And then it just goes. He at one point disappears and then leads to just this long swath of just like, where's Billy? Where's this white. There's like this twerked up white boy in a Santa Claus outfit who keeps hiding in this small town. [00:34:03] Speaker C: Yeah. And just pops up randomly around town to kill some people. [00:34:07] Speaker A: And my favorite death in the entire film is the Santa Claus in the courtyard. Not only not because it's like some true. It's because the response to hearing that is he's deaf. He couldn't hear you when you were yelling to him, stop. Because the whole time he's walking up to the orphanage and the cop is yelling, stop. And he's not listening. And then he just blasts the Santa Claus and it's like, no, he's deaf. He's dead. It's like that. You just killed this poor deaf Santa Claus. You like, are you kidding me? And then that cop gets his comeuppance, which takes too long to happen. And then Billy, he also. [00:34:48] Speaker B: That cop, like, shakes off shooting that death Santa, like, so easily. He's like, it's fine. These things happen. [00:34:56] Speaker A: Cut to Ricky with blood streaks all over his face because he was the one that was gonna say hi to. And then Billy shows up. Billy tries to kill the evil nun, I think. Is it Mother Superior? [00:35:09] Speaker C: Is that Mother Superior is what they call it. [00:35:11] Speaker A: Who honestly, is the only person in this film that deserved to be killed twice, maybe three times. And yet she gets away. They stop Billy, Ricky, you. You find out that that's Ricky, his brother. And then Ricky looks at Superior and says, naughty. And then just a hard ass, like, freeze frame cut. Then we're done. [00:35:31] Speaker C: And then it's like, violence begets violence, guys. Trauma begets trauma. [00:35:36] Speaker A: It's. It's just. Honestly, it's a solid end. [00:35:39] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:35:40] Speaker A: To a film that's really fun. And it's no surprise that this movie made money back. It doesn't matter. I don't even think it makes a million if it does, it barely. [00:35:47] Speaker C: This movie, it made like two and a half. Did it really make two? Okay, yeah. On a 750,000 budget. So, like, makes sense they would do another one. [00:35:58] Speaker B: It also came out the same weekend as the original Nightmare on Elm street and made more money than Elm Street. [00:36:06] Speaker A: That's fucking crazy. Insane is crazy. But I'm glad you brought out the budget, Andy, because the funniest part going into part two that people should know, even though we've kind of let it be known, is that the original budget for the first film is just three quarters of a million dollars. This budget for two, I believe is $25,000. Or, like, it's like just. [00:36:29] Speaker C: I read 250,000, but still a third of what the first one was. [00:36:33] Speaker A: It's now a quarter. And it is very clear what most of that money went to, which is the rights to Silent Night, Deadly Night one. Because Silent Night, Deadly Night Part two, which comes out three years later. [00:36:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:36:49] Speaker A: So, like, there's no, like, there's no Friday the 13th or like a Halloween. Like, well, we got it. Just like, bring it back as soon as we can. Like, make it as soon as possible. We get. Oh, my God. It's just. We get a hard jump forward to. I guess it's now the late 90s, maybe early 2000s canonically or. Because Like, Ricky is now an adult. [00:37:15] Speaker B: Yeah. It's definitely not three years later in the world of the movie. [00:37:18] Speaker A: No, it's not. They do basically take time. Well after they, you know, recap the first film and nearly entire in its near entirety, they also. They do a. This is what Ricky's been up to for the last, like 10 years, 15 years. And man, what was. I mean, because. So you. Neither one of you had seen Part two, right? [00:37:44] Speaker B: No, I've seen Part two. [00:37:46] Speaker A: Part two. Okay. [00:37:46] Speaker B: This. [00:37:47] Speaker A: This is. [00:37:47] Speaker C: I had seen none of these. [00:37:49] Speaker A: Okay. [00:37:50] Speaker B: This is not even the only movie that does this. But this is such a delightfully hilarious. It kind of frustrating as well, but, like, hilarious almost. It's like a borderline, like, money laundering scheme. When these sequels would be like, let's just cut a bunch of footage that's already been shot and used in a previous film and let's. Let's really pad out this runtime. Like, how can we really pad this movie out? And this. This is like expert mode padding. I mean. [00:38:24] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. [00:38:25] Speaker B: And maybe not expert. It's more. It's like extremely shameless. Like, one of the more shameless examples I've ever seen. [00:38:33] Speaker A: It makes Charles, like Bond and Full Moon look, like, conservative with. When they do like this with, like their later films. [00:38:40] Speaker B: Yes. Like the Puppet Master movies or the. [00:38:45] Speaker A: Iconic, like the notorious Doll man versus Pup. No, Doll man versus Demonic Toys. Film is all just footage from the other films. It's like barely anything is cut new. It's like a versus film that, like, has all footage from just the other two franchises, but nothing for that one specifically. [00:39:03] Speaker B: Can you imagine if a theatrical horror movie did that now? [00:39:07] Speaker A: Oh, it would be. It would be chaos. Chaos in the streets. And I would see it. I would see it immediately just to be like, how the fuck do you. How do you get. [00:39:16] Speaker C: How does this happen? [00:39:17] Speaker B: Yeah, like, Terrifier four came out and it was like, just like bits of like parts two and three. Maybe like 15 minutes of, like, new footage. Like, there would. The horror community would be writhing. [00:39:32] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Yeah. Just a hyper. [00:39:35] Speaker C: We're so entitled today. Yeah. We expect new content from a movie. [00:39:39] Speaker A: Honestly. Yeah, we're sitting. Gosh, dude, we don't know how good we have it. Netflix CEO confirms no more new movies. All good together. Yeah, but no, I was. I was asking mainly because, like, I was. Because to me going into this, it was like, I know the meme. I know how iconic. This isn't so bad. It's good way. I do not know how this is Going to make Ricky a character. How it's going to lead him to be the next Santa Claus killer. What is this going to do? And when we just found. When my roommates and I found out that it was just going to be the first 30 to 35 minutes, it's. I think it's 35 minutes. I checked at one point where I was like, this is just the first movie again. [00:40:23] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:40:23] Speaker A: And it's like, you think it's done because it kind of cuts back to Ricky in the interrogation room, which it'll. [00:40:29] Speaker C: Do like interstitial bits of him commenting on what happened. Yeah. [00:40:33] Speaker A: And it. [00:40:35] Speaker B: Which they probably. Two hours. [00:40:37] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Everything about it feels like a two week, Two week shooting at best. Like, the movie theater in the film looks absolutely fake. [00:40:47] Speaker C: The. [00:40:47] Speaker A: The footage they use in the movie theater is just the shootout robbery from the first film. [00:40:53] Speaker C: Right. [00:40:53] Speaker A: And it's almost implied that there's a. In the, in the universe of the film, there is a Santa Claus killer movie based off of his, like, brother's life. Because they, like, watch a movie that's like, yeah, it's about a killer Santa Claus. And it's like, Jesus Christ. [00:41:08] Speaker B: You have to admit, though, for how lazy everything around the production of this movie and like, the final product is. Eric Freeman playing Ricky. He's not voting it in. [00:41:20] Speaker A: This is this where. This is where I need to, like, when it comes to the franchise as a whole. There is a trifecta of performances in all five of these films where I'm like, the level that all three of these people are at are vastly different, but they were nonetheless entertaining. And two of Those are in 4 and 5. It's Clint Howard from 4. His fucking, fucking performance in that movie is insane because he seems like he is completely perturbed by everyone, as if he didn't just pull a maggot out of a hole and just like, try to give it to somebody. The other one is the guy that plays Pino and fucking five. Insane performance. And then the top of it, the top of that triangle in my head, the Mount Rushmore of so bad. It's good performance performances is in fact Eric Freeman for his fucking Ricky. He is insanely intense the entire movie. He is crazy. [00:42:18] Speaker B: Well, what's great about it is you, you know, I'm only making an assumption here, but you get the sense that Eric Freeman is like, I'm gonna be scary. Like, he's really earnestly trying to pull off this, like, intense, intimidating, psycho killer kind of performance. And I think that's what makes it so special. Like he doesn't seem like he's trying necessarily to be this hammy campy performance and I think that's what makes it so great because these kind of so bad. They're good classics. I think they can only kind of happen on accident, you know. [00:43:03] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. He's. He's kind of doing like his Norman Bates. Like that's. It's his opportunity to like you know, say something about the mind of a psycho killer. [00:43:16] Speaker A: Yes. [00:43:16] Speaker B: He doesn't deliver a single line of dialogue without like sneering or snarling. You know, he doesn't deliver one normal line which is great. [00:43:26] Speaker C: It's a genuinely fascinating performance. [00:43:29] Speaker A: Yeah, it's kind of wild watching Eric Freeman try to give Ricky a personality compared to the first film that I mean it's just a child playing a child for the most part. There's not really anything to Ricky. But they're saying Billy every so often or being. Or having a deaf Santa Claus get shot in front of you. But I mean I. It's very clear that yeah, the intention with Freeman's performance is to not just be Billy again, it is to be its own. Be his own thing. Because like Billy has an intensity to him in that first film but there is kind of a sadness almost built into his face that is like you've been through a lot. I can tell just by looking at you, there's. There's something to you. Well, as Ricky, I just. I. The, the more I look at him, the more I don't want to look at him. He's. There's a system. He is absolutely looks like a stone statue that will you up if you look too hard at him. [00:44:23] Speaker B: He's a little more twisted than Billy. He's a little more of a sicko. [00:44:29] Speaker A: I mean he is. He also is like he feels even older to his character than when Billy's actor looks like to Billy like it is. He looks like a full grown adult when he's supposed to BE I think 20, 21 in this movie 100. He's like. Looks like he's in his 30s and he's just is ins. Like it's funny too because it like it's just him in the interrogation room for about two thirds of the like a third of the film and then it's like flashbacks to like two other actors that play Ricky and then we finally get him in like what modern day supposed to be and there it's just like a lot of his scenes are really like him just doing ADR like monologuing over the scene. Like it's not even. I think it's not until his girlfriend. I can't even remember her name off top of my head. But when he meets his girlfriend. And then of course, you know, it's been so long since we had a sex scene. We have to have a sex scene. Even though the, even the flashback to one shows the sex scene. Even though that was Billy watching that, not Ricky. [00:45:37] Speaker B: I love everything about the relationship with him. And Jennifer, right? I believe her name is Jennifer. [00:45:45] Speaker A: Yes. That. [00:45:48] Speaker B: That is absolutely incredible. It's. It's what? It's one of those. It's one of the least believable relationships. I think I've seen it. [00:46:01] Speaker A: It's like they bump into each other. Like they bump into each other's cars or something like that. And then they go ride together and then there's just a long, very long sex scene between the two of them. [00:46:13] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:46:14] Speaker B: Yes. It's kind of like in the movie Joker when he starts dating Zazzy Beats. You're like, this can't be happening. But in this case, it really is real. [00:46:26] Speaker A: It is real. It is real. And he's. He's a sicko in this society. [00:46:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:46:32] Speaker A: No one understands him. And he's. They all like. And he. Yeah, he just. They can't. The guys that were bullying him, I can't remember what they would call him, but they would almost call him just like a freak virgin every time they'd see him. And it'd be like, leave that man alone. Leave him alone. He's had sex. Unlike his brother, he's actually had a relationship with another woman. Let him try. And then he'll just go into full. The movie theater scene is what my mind constantly goes to because it's just like that whole, that whole room looks fake in a weird way. [00:47:05] Speaker B: Well, I love like the like the goofy like cartoon version of when he kills that guy behind the seats and you just see like legs flailing in the air. That was like so silly. Like the way they edit it. Clearly they were just like, we don't have money or effects for this kill. [00:47:23] Speaker A: He's gonna go naughty. [00:47:25] Speaker B: Yeah, we, we already don't have enough money to make this a feature length film. So like we definitely don't have. We have to use our kills sparingly. But, you know. [00:47:34] Speaker A: Or do it all at once. [00:47:36] Speaker B: Yes. Or all at once. Foul swoop. Yeah. And Ricky, it's funny too, is like similar to Billy and like he's this guy who can be. Seem completely normal and well adjusted for Long periods of time. And then just the smallest thing can turn him into a raving lunatic. Like, murdering people, you know, all it takes is just the tiniest nudge. He really. He really is like, at like, two extremes. [00:48:07] Speaker A: But Billy's. Billy's version of that, at least. That actor feels like he is someone who almost enjoys nobody. Like, no one looking at him seems the most confident and calm when he's just like, I'm a normal person, Ricky. Eric Freeman's Ricky looks like he has a grenade in his asshole at all times, and if he gets a little too loose, he'll blow up. And it is the fucking. He looks so tense when he's calm. It's so funny. Again, when he sits in the movie theater, he looks like a brick wall sitting in a seat. But he doesn't look comfortable in any way, shape or form. [00:48:41] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:42] Speaker A: And anyone fucks them because the movie could have just been like 70 minutes of people trying to fuck with Ricky and then Ricky just immediately kills them because they have no shot. There's no way they could do anything about it. And there's also, around this time, the nuns are back, or at least the young nun who is now recasted, she's now back in some way, shape or form. And they're trying to give the film, like, a plot in terms of being like, if Ricky go. If Ricky goes crazy, we know where he's gonna go. He's gonna go to Mother Superior. He's gonna go kill Mother Superior. [00:49:17] Speaker C: Gotta close the loop. He's gonna. [00:49:18] Speaker A: He's got to do what his brother couldn't. And it's that funny thing of like, yeah, we could have just done that 10 minutes after we revealed that. But no, we're gonna have one of the most insanely random slaughter sequences in this entire series. That is so iconic, it is a meme that is outlived the relevance of this film by itself. That is the garbage day sequence. [00:49:45] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I kinda. You know what's kinda, I gotta say, kind of fun to see a slasher movie where the killer is just using a gun and just shooting people randomly. [00:49:54] Speaker A: In the daytime too. [00:49:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:49:56] Speaker C: Just walking around suburb, shooting people in their front yard. [00:49:59] Speaker B: Yeah. So unusual. [00:50:01] Speaker A: Like, if this movie actually made any money or was probably pushed at all in theaters, it would probably also be just as controversial because it's just a random dude shooting people in the suburbs. Yeah. [00:50:11] Speaker C: It's like postal. [00:50:13] Speaker B: Yeah, that's true. [00:50:15] Speaker A: Insane. It's kind of to be like, oh, the reason why this movie didn't get Any love is because probably everyone forgot about Silent Night, Deadly Night by the time two came out. It is. And I think the garbage day scene as well. Just the actual scene has only gotten funnier with context. Because with context, it still makes no sense why he shot that poor man with a garment can. Now. He was. He was mad at Jennifer. He was mad at Jennifer's ex. He kills them both and then just leaves. And then a random man who has nothing to do with just shows up. And like, I think now that scene just makes me laugh because the garbage man's responsive. Huh. And then just get shot. [00:51:05] Speaker B: It's also like the one liner. You know, clearly they wanted to have like, you know, Freddy Krueger style or something. Like a funny like one liner as he kills somebody. But they. Exactly. Yeah. But they couldn't think of anything. It was just like, garbage day. [00:51:25] Speaker A: Garbage day or naughty. [00:51:27] Speaker B: Very little thought put in there. [00:51:28] Speaker C: Couldn't even be bothered to like, oh, I'm taking out the trash or something. Like, just right or like just commenting. It's garbage. [00:51:36] Speaker B: I thought garbage days were on Tuesdays. I don't know. [00:51:42] Speaker C: Anything could have been a little bit minimum creativity. [00:51:46] Speaker A: Then he shoots a car that spins and like just blows. [00:51:53] Speaker B: That was great. [00:51:53] Speaker A: He's like going, ha. He's like. He's so insane. It is a level. It is a level of commitment that is like, like, yeah, like you said, Mitch is like someone who is not trying to be like, this is a movie. This is not. I. I'm not putting any effort into this. This is a. This is a man who's putting 11 out of 10 effort into a film that, like, no one is going to see until years later. [00:52:19] Speaker B: And no one else is really putting any effort into it. [00:52:22] Speaker A: No. It seems like they're there for the paycheck. And you know what? I respect both avenues with a movie like this. I get it. I get it completely. There's no right answer to this. [00:52:35] Speaker B: And you know what's funny is like, if you hadn't seen the first movie, like, watching these, like, this is like one of the few sequels where it's like watching them back to back, like, is actually like a pretty negative experience. [00:52:50] Speaker A: Because you're like, the worst way to watch either. [00:52:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:52:52] Speaker B: Because you're re watching what you just saw. And I mean, I will say it's been a while since I've seen this. And I was like, oh, yeah, I remember like, like the first 15 minutes or like, or like kind of a recap. Like, no, it's like half it's half the movie. [00:53:09] Speaker A: It basically just cuts the. Any, it cuts any slow moments of the first film as well as any downtime and just shows all the intense, you know, violence and the kills. And it is all Ricky being like. And yeah, my brother did this. And it was like, you didn't see him decapitate that child on the sled. How do you know he was dead by the time you probably would have found out? [00:53:32] Speaker B: Well, in that sense, what's weird is like if you hadn't seen the first movie, this movie's almost better because. You know what I mean? Because like you get all the best bits. [00:53:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:53:46] Speaker B: From the original. Almost all of the best bits. No, no montage, I believe. [00:53:51] Speaker A: But like we get, we get death, Santa kill. Which. Which was funny as fuck. [00:53:55] Speaker B: Yes. [00:53:55] Speaker A: I was like. And that's where it reveals that that was Ricky who saw that happen. And I was like, I'm pretty sure the first movie doesn't say which child. [00:54:03] Speaker B: No, this is all, this is all secondhand. He's. He's learned. [00:54:07] Speaker A: Yes. [00:54:07] Speaker B: Afterwards somebody sa down and told him. [00:54:11] Speaker A: I remember we all like my roommates when we're watching this. We all took bathroom breaks during the opening of this movie and we all had moments where we came back and went, it's still going. It's still just doing the first film again. And at one point my roommate Ray went, I'm out. I, I just can't, I can't do this right now. I have to go. Adam was losing his mind and was pissed off, but he was still enjoyed it and I was cackling. [00:54:39] Speaker B: Yeah, you could just. [00:54:40] Speaker A: So lazy. [00:54:43] Speaker B: Yeah, you could just fast forward through the first half of this movie and you'd be fine. [00:54:48] Speaker A: You'd be totally fine. He totally gets away with it genuinely once. Cuz when 3 starts to do it, I was like, no, no, no, no, no, we can't do this again. You cannot just throw the first film on. [00:54:59] Speaker C: Well, also hard to call, hard to call. 2 Getting away with it. [00:55:03] Speaker A: Oh yeah. But at least it's funny. And two, at least you have, at. [00:55:08] Speaker C: Least you have Eric Freeman fucking, you know, hamming it up and. [00:55:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:55:14] Speaker C: Also like, do you guys ever, when you're watching a movie, usually when it's like not a very good time, have the experience where a character or there will be a line in the movie that just like feels like it exemplifies your experience with the film in a negative way. There's a, there's a line in this movie where it's in one of the Interstitial cuts between the recap segments where the investigator or the guy who's interviewing Ricky is like in disbelief or kind of thinks Rick thinks Ricky's being disingenuous. And Ricky says, really? Well, maybe we're just jerking off here then. And I was like, that is kind of what we're doing, which is jerking off. [00:56:02] Speaker A: I honestly, I honestly think the closest I got to this was in three, because in three, which we will, but like three is basically a monkey's paw wish of a film. And ultimately at a. At a certain point, I think the, the funniest character in three is the cop that is just like. He's just there. He feels like he doesn't even know a camera's on and he's just talking out of his ass. But there's like one. There's a scene at the end of three where he runs, he comes up to a near dead body or about to die and just goes like, should have known, huh? Or like something like that. Something. I was like, oh, we should. I guess you should have known better. Like, we should have known this is what was gonna happen. It just wasn't. And two, I think it, yeah, two. It just, I think in my head, anytime I think of two, the moment of realization, this is something special, but something that is so utterly intense, insanely stupid is this anytime Eric Freeman's face was the only shot in the screen, like he would just, he would pop up and then just take close up on him. I was like, dude, he'll never leave my brain. This will be bled into my subconscious. [00:57:10] Speaker B: Yeah, it really is. Like, I feel like the, like something like two being so low rent and trashy and like low effort, it's like we don't have much in terms of like the equivalent of that anymore, I guess. Like maybe like Asylum Studios, like those kind of movies are maybe like the equivalent where it's just like, okay, this is barely a movie. We're like scrapping together. We're just scrapping together a bunch of footage and padding it all out and releasing this as a sequel. That it is kind of interesting that the following sequels seem to have almost more effort put into them in some. [00:57:53] Speaker C: Ways then they set more creative drive behind them. [00:57:56] Speaker A: I think the wildest thing about going from two to three, which will like, we'll talk about the end of two, but like it's two feels like a quintessential like low budget, 80s slasher. Like literally using a ham sandwich and a half a loaf of bread to get it through the Finish line. And then I think three, even though it's 89, honestly feels like the quit like a very much a quintessential low budget direct to video 90/ that has no money and it's like this. Like they both feel like they fit that avenue of. Listen, we're not the first film. We were never going to be. I, I'm surprised we're this far in. So we're just gonna try this. And I mean it's, it's funny because I think the weakest parts of 2 is when anytime someone tries to inject plot, I think anytime the movie is trying to have a through line to the end, it's like I completely care. I could care less. This could end on a black. I could have end on a black screen after Garbage Day and I'd be like, what better way could you end this? Yeah. [00:59:02] Speaker C: At its best when it's just Eric Freeman as Ricky, like puffing his chest and fucking around like. [00:59:08] Speaker A: Cuz like when they announced like he's gonna go kill Mother Superior, I'm like, well you can't let her get away with it again, so she's clearly going to die. So it's like how do we get like. But how exactly are we gonna make that as interesting or as batshit insane as we do with Garbage Day? And they don't. It's still, it's still insane in terms of just Eric Freeman committing hardcore in a Santa Claus outfit. Which it's funny because the Blu Ray has him in that Santa Claus outfit as like the poster. As if that's the whole movie. It really should just be him with a pistol in the garbage day post. That should just be the poster. [00:59:46] Speaker C: Yeah, he's mostly just in like a blue collared shirt the whole movie. [00:59:50] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like it feels like the summer the whole time even. Yeah. [00:59:53] Speaker B: He honestly looks like a, like a college, like a college football player. [00:59:59] Speaker A: Like he does looks like a jock. [01:00:01] Speaker C: Like just. Yeah, yeah, he's generic 80s. [01:00:03] Speaker B: He's like in great shape. He's like buff and like, and like it's like a handsome looking dude. And it doesn't make sense that this is a guy who's like spent his life in like a psychiatric hunt or so. [01:00:16] Speaker C: Well, you know, I mean I, I think fundamentally in the, the canon of film history, he's like the prototype for you know, Patrick Bateman, honestly. [01:00:28] Speaker B: Yeah, there we go. [01:00:29] Speaker A: I could see that. Yeah. Because I mean this character now, honestly, it's one of the reasons why I think, think with the newest remake, Rowan Campbell, I think, is the, the actor, the guy who was in Halloween Ends, who has done a bunch of other films. He. He honestly is like, yeah, this guy looks like how I would picture you describing Billy or like Ricky to me. [01:00:49] Speaker B: That's good casting. I, I will say. I, I like, that has me curious. I. I think. Not to get off on a tangent, but, like, what I've seen of the trailer, it looks like it's doing a little too much of that. Like, oh, we're trying to make this look like an exploitation movie. Like, we're, you know, I, I don't know if the movie could be fun, but I, I just, I hope it's not too self aware. [01:01:16] Speaker A: Well, it also does something that two touches on for five seconds and then never discusses again, which is the idea that, like, a Campbell brother is doing this in almost a sense of justice. Like, the remake almost seems like Billy is doing it. And almost like these guys, these, these, all these, you know, are naughty, and I'm gonna be the one that takes care of them. And in two, there's a single, kind. [01:01:39] Speaker C: Of like a Robin Hood ifying. [01:01:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:01:42] Speaker B: Which is kind of what his character does in Halloween Ends too. [01:01:45] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [01:01:47] Speaker A: But. But like, in part two, there's a single scene with teenage Ricky where he sees a couple on a picnic blanket that, like, the, the boyfriend nearly like it. Well, he is. He is assaulting her physically and is trying to sexually assault her. It doesn't go through. And he gets pissed. And then Ricky gets mad at him, kills the guy. And then the girlfriend says, thank you. Like she thanks him for killing her boyfriend. Right. And there's almost an energy where Eric Freeman's like. And that's when I know I could do good with my killing. For someone who's naughty, like, something like that. And then they never touch on it again. Like, and then, like, you know, three has three does nothing with that or even remotely thinks about it, but just. It is fascinating that, like, the new, the newest remake does feel like they might be taking something from part two that, like, I don't remember Billy in the first film ever being like, I'm gonna kill a. [01:02:43] Speaker C: Conscious of what he's doing. [01:02:45] Speaker A: Yeah, he felt like he's in a. He's in a fugue state for the most part. [01:02:48] Speaker C: Right? Yeah. Punish. Yeah. [01:02:51] Speaker A: But part two ends with Ricky taking the axe to Mother Superior, which she deserved worse, but I'll take her dead over being alive again. [01:03:00] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:03:00] Speaker A: And Ricky gets his ass shot out and he gets blasted completely. Just holes at Every part of him. And it ends on the note that he's still. Ricky's not dead, despite the amount of holes in him. He could come back. And so going into three. And you had. You'd seen three, Mitch. So you had seen it, but you forgot. That's right. [01:03:28] Speaker C: No, you skipped. [01:03:29] Speaker B: I just. For whatever reason. I don't know if it was the intentional reason, but, like, I just had not seen this before. [01:03:37] Speaker A: Yeah, you. [01:03:38] Speaker C: I think you heard about the bugs in four and just went. [01:03:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:41] Speaker B: I was like, I got to get to the gross. [01:03:43] Speaker C: Gross. [01:03:44] Speaker B: Yeah. And rape and screaming. [01:03:46] Speaker A: Mad George is in the last two Silent Night, Deadly Night films. The. [01:03:51] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I mean, dude, those effects go hard. There's no. His practical effects go hard, but, like, it's insane. I. I will say what kind of made me sort of raise my eyebrows before I watched this in a. Like, a interesting way is this is directed by. I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, Monty Hellman. And I don't know if you guys know, but Monty Hellman, who directed Silent night, Deadly Night 3, directed two lane blacktop, which is like this very famous road movie starring Warren Oates and James Taylor, which is, like, in the Criterion Collection, is, like, regarded as, like, one of the best films of the 1960s. And he also directed a movie called the Shooting, which is a. Like a classic western from the 1960s. [01:04:41] Speaker C: Jack Nicholson. [01:04:42] Speaker B: Yes. Sorry, sorry. Tulane Blacktop, 1971. Not the 60s, but they. Yeah, they were called, like, acid westerns. He made Ride in the. Ride in the Whirlwind, Jack Nicholson and the Shooting, which I believe these are all, like, Criterion Collection, like, classic, like, great films. And I don't know what kind of state his career was in. [01:05:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Out of all the film, like, the directors of the franchise, which I know that I believe the director of Four, I think, is Brian Yuzna. [01:05:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Who. Who co wrote the original Reanimator and then directed, like. And directed the sequels. He also made, like, Society. He's kind of like a. [01:05:30] Speaker C: You. Yeah. You were telling me, Mitch, a couple months ago, that he's, like, got kind of a cult following. [01:05:36] Speaker B: He. He's kind of like the God of, like, three star straight to VHS horror movies. Like. Like, he's got. If you're, like, into horror, you're kind of like, oh, Brian Yasna is like, a little underrated. I would. I wouldn't be like, he's a great director. [01:05:53] Speaker A: But I will say, though, I at least appreciate that when he talks about Four he does say he's embarrassed he didn't incorporate Christmas better in A Silent Night Deadly Night, which is why he, like, he. Apparently, because of that, he helped produce Five. And I think really out the gate, that movie is like a hundred times more Christmasy than Four. But, like, of all the. [01:06:13] Speaker B: It co wrote it. [01:06:14] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. So, like. But all the directors of the franchise, especially the sequels, I think Monty's the only one who is, like, when he was alive, never said that. The third, he was. He was ashamed of Three. I think he was like, I did the best I could. I think we did something interesting. Sue me. Like, that energy of, like. I don't know what to tell you. Like. [01:06:35] Speaker B: And you know what? It's a little bit classy because I'll be honest, like, you know, who knows, right? Like, what his real thoughts are. But it's like, you know, you make a movie, maybe you had a positive experience making it. I don't know, like, you got along with everybody. You don't. Maybe. I don't know. As a filmmaker, I could see you don't always want to be like, yeah, that movie sucked. Like, you know, like. Like, you're like, oh, hey, you know, it was a good time. And obviously this came at a point in his career, I think, where, like, I mean, he was directing Silent Night, Deadly Night three. You know, he went. He went from making these, like, very critically acclaimed kind of westerns and road. [01:07:16] Speaker A: Movies worn out to make underappreciate if classics like Silent Night, Deadly Night three better watch out. [01:07:23] Speaker B: And honestly, I would. I will say this about Silent Night, Deadly Night three. This is probably the. Not even probably. I think this is definitely the worst of all Five. Like, this is the most. [01:07:34] Speaker A: Really. [01:07:34] Speaker B: Okay, I would say it's the most boring. [01:07:38] Speaker A: It's like 100% the kill. [01:07:41] Speaker B: There's like, no kills in this movie. Almost like. Like every kill is just someone going, you know, like the camera getting towards somebody. So the kills are really lackluster and the. The story just kind of moves at a snail's pace. That said, I think that's kind of like the most interesting one to talk about because, like, on paper, it is kind of nuts. [01:08:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I. I would say it's definitely the most boring, I think, of the franchise. I think in my head, this movie, the way I've described it to people, I said it before in the pod, but like, it is a monkey's paw wish film where it's like, you are asking for, I guess, a quote unquote, better film than Part two. Where you want something that I guess is more invested in its narrative. You have characters that you can kind of latch on to. It has something to do. [01:08:31] Speaker C: Conceptually ambitious. [01:08:33] Speaker A: Yeah. And it has. It is doing something with the brothers, specifically Ricky, in a very unique way, and make it creative in a way that you're like, I would have never expected him to go this route. And objectively, they do do those things. However, the execution of that is where it becomes really boring because it is very clearly, like, the best way to describe. Also, this film, too, is, like, when you look up the budgets for this franchise, it's. This is the film onward. Where the people are like. Like, Google, Google AI. Because that's all that gives you, like, responses now goes like, I don't know. But it's a third film and it's direct to video, so probably it's less than $250,000. It doesn't even like. It does. I think it's more creative with its budget than it probably needed to be. But at the same time, it is less sleazy, it is less gory. It is less violent. Even though there is a. There's that one woman who dies at the desk that is super gory and visceral when they see, like, the crime scene, but that doesn't really happen. Happen again. Like, it is like a. Said Mitch. It is just like they're like, oh, and that's it. They die off screen. [01:09:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:39] Speaker A: Which is very interesting. Which feels very intentional. Like they're trying to, like, take a sleazy franchise and try to make a different, unique take that, you know, keeps the legacy of the brothers strong, I guess. [01:09:53] Speaker B: He was trying to, like, clap. I think it feels like he was, in his own way, trying to make this, like, a little more classy. Like, this movie does sort of have, like, themes to it about, like, reverberating trauma. I mean, like, are they handled in any kind of meaningful way? No, no, no. [01:10:14] Speaker C: But it clearly wants to be saying something. [01:10:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:18] Speaker C: About the subject matter. [01:10:20] Speaker A: And. And it's the only. Only film so far in the series that has, like, a final girl role or, like, a protagonist. [01:10:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:27] Speaker A: Like, it's like. Like, four technically kind of does before is also abstract as. And it's very much just like, I don't know, like, maybe. Yeah. And then, like. And then hilariously, while 5 is also bad, 5 almost has, like, the most standard cast of, like, this is a mom. This is her kid. This is the trauma. This is who we're following. All that. And then three is like, this Girl can dream dive. And she's been talking to Ricky. [01:10:56] Speaker B: And I'm curious if this must have come out after because this kind of takes the Friday the 13th Part 7 approach, where they're like, let's have a clairvoyant girl be our protagonist here. [01:11:11] Speaker A: It might be a hot take. I think part seven, Friday the 13th is a better film than Deadly Night part three. [01:11:17] Speaker B: No, you're not. You're not wrong. [01:11:19] Speaker A: I know. [01:11:21] Speaker B: That's not even one of the better Friday the 13th. [01:11:23] Speaker A: No, that's. That is the first Kane Hodder one, I think. And that's the one where he gets beaten to shit. I think he falls through a staircase in that movie. [01:11:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:11:31] Speaker B: I mean, that's where he's like full zombie. [01:11:35] Speaker A: And that's where the twist is, is that the telepathic girl's dead dad comes out of the lake and pulls Jason down. Yes. Wild movie. Love Friday the 13th. All warts and all. [01:11:50] Speaker B: I will say, like, to me, what's so strange about this sequel is like, obviously it's like the tone. [01:11:56] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [01:11:57] Speaker B: It's much more dry. It's much more, like serious. Yeah. It's like somber. And the casting of Bill Mosley as Ricky. [01:12:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:10] Speaker B: First of all, unrecognizable. Like, they didn't even try to make somebody find somebody who looks like, you know, Eric Freeman, but also like Bill Mosley. I don't know if you guys have seen like, the second Texas Chainsaw Massacre by Toby Hooper. [01:12:27] Speaker A: I've seen two. I've never seen one. [01:12:30] Speaker B: Okay. [01:12:31] Speaker A: It's been on my list for so long. I know. [01:12:33] Speaker B: Hey, that's crazy. [01:12:35] Speaker A: I know. [01:12:35] Speaker B: Well, he's chop top in that one. The guy with the metal plate in his head. And he's also in like, the Devil's Rejects and House of a Thousand Corpses. [01:12:43] Speaker A: He's a Rob Zombie mainstay. [01:12:46] Speaker B: Yeah. He's like. And in those movies he has this like incredible, like, sleazy sinister, like, just repellent charisma about him. [01:12:57] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:12:57] Speaker B: Here he's like playing a fucking robot, right? [01:13:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:00] Speaker C: Like, totally lifeless. Yeah. [01:13:03] Speaker A: No surprise that casting wise, they probably went, we could find someone that's like Freeman, but this dude's gonna have to wear a fishbowl on his head for the entire run time. So I guess it really doesn't matter. It's like, I guess. I guess. I love the. [01:13:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I love the. This costume design. [01:13:20] Speaker A: It looks good, I think. I think, like, the costume design on that looks good. I think Bill Mosley, with having literally nothing to say or do for most of the film. He is the closest to looking like what you think in your brain, a. A killer Santa Claus man would look like, in a sense, like, he does have that energy. [01:13:39] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just disappointing. It's like, because, you know, that's an actor who's capable of probably delivering a really entertainingly kind of deranged performance, and they ask him to give absolutely nothing. And unlike, you know, even Eric Freeman's like, oh, he actually could convincingly do that, like, or pull it off in a. In a legitimate way. So that. That's one of, I think the most baffling things about this movie is like, why cast Bill Mosley. [01:14:09] Speaker A: Yeah, Bill's baffling. The dream dive stuff is also, I think, over, over. Well, overall baffling, because you think it's gonna be a bigger part of the narrative later on. But it literally is just the connective tissue to why he's chasing this girl. And after that, there's no, like, they dream dive again. There's no, like, they don't fully commit to the goofiness of a dream dive after the first, like, 10 to 15 minutes, which is fine, I guess, but it is kind of like there are probably other ways to have him be attached to her and not in a telepathic way. There's other ways they could have done it. I would also say one of the baffling, like, crazy baffling things about this movie is that there are three David lynch alums in this fucking film that you have. [01:14:58] Speaker B: Yes. [01:14:59] Speaker A: You have Benjamin Horn from Twin Peaks. You have Leo from Twin Peaks. And then you have Leo, who plays the main girl's brother. His girlfriend is one of the leads in Mulholland Drive. So it's like you have three. [01:15:15] Speaker B: That's right. [01:15:15] Speaker A: You have three people that are. Like, two of them are in Twin Peaks the year this movie comes out. Like, this movie comes out in 89, and Twin Peaks starts in 89. And to see that Laura Herring. Yeah, Laura Herring. And she's gorgeous. Gorgeous in this movie. So, like, I, When I saw her, I was like, are you lynch, too? Like, at that point you'd see the other two. And you're like, you seem oddly familiar. Like, are you from Twin Peaks as well? And then it was like, of course, Mulholland Drive. [01:15:41] Speaker B: But it is probably a sacrilege comparison. But this is like the most Lynchian of the. Of the five. [01:15:47] Speaker A: I mean. [01:15:48] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's the most, like. Yeah, cerebral. Tracked and cerebral. Yeah, it has. Yeah, yeah, it's it is, but it's also boring. [01:16:01] Speaker A: It's boring. The worst part is, is that so boring? There is interesting choices made in the casting. There are interesting choices made in the narrative and what they use to be the focal point in the narrative. Connective tissue between a character who's been around since one technically to like these. This entire new cast, there is this. This tease of like, it's gonna get bloody and gory at times because Ricky, now that he's brain dead, basically, even though he's got a brain fishbowl, he still has that urge to kill on Christmas. [01:16:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:16:32] Speaker A: But all those happen off screen. It is the biggest offender of. We are at 90, we're at an hour and 26 minutes and we have, I think 45 minutes of content. So we got to figure out how to really spread that along. [01:16:45] Speaker C: Right, Right. [01:16:45] Speaker A: It does this hilarious thing where Billy. Oh, Ricky, a again, a brain dead man that cannot drive at this point and doesn't really necessarily know where he's going, fully beats the main girl to her grandmother's house, kills her grandmother off screen, and then has the due diligence to kind of COVID it up and also hide for the next 10 to 20 minutes. He's not there and there and you're just waiting. Like, is he gonna pop through the window? Because Bill Mosley can be very. He's a very physical actor. He could definitely do those things if you want him to do that. But like, he just. They pull a one again. But it's now with Ricky, he's just hiding for like a long time. And then you get these long sequences where the doctor and the detective are like going like. Because it's this hilarious thing with the movie because they're bringing Ricky back to life in this kind of hilarious way. This doctor has to just sound like an absolute insane man every time the detectives, like, so why the fuck would you bring a killer back to life? He's like, ricky's a person because all. [01:17:54] Speaker C: Life has value, right? [01:17:57] Speaker A: Yeah. But guess what? [01:17:58] Speaker C: Like this really righteous, like, you're still gonna get. [01:18:01] Speaker A: You're still gonna get stabbed in the stomach, dude. Like, you're, You're. It's the wrong way to handle this. [01:18:06] Speaker B: Yeah, he had. He had to be the only person in the world to somehow receive this probably very expensive medical treatment where we put a black. A glass hole over a glass bowl over his brain. [01:18:20] Speaker A: Like, the scenes with him and the detective are like. Yeah, technically, these two actors are like the most like prominent acclaimed actors of the two of them. Because the detective Who I thought was supposed to be the first detective in the first film is not him at all, but he was a prominent television star and a. I think, also in films at the time, and I think was technically the biggest star of that film in terms of, like, relevance. While the doctor, you know, not only being David lynch, he's the fucking lead in the original west side Story. So it's like you have these two actors who are just like. You know, clearly they are like. They had their time together for the most part and barely had any time with the other actors. They had to get them out of the way. The fact that the detective gets left behind is like, okay, so you can only pay for, like, probably four days. Like, how do you get him not in this. In the. In the plot for a little while? And, like, it's. Yeah, it's one of those things where, like, the cast does a fine job. The movie looks interesting compared to the other two. Like, it's trying. [01:19:26] Speaker C: Yeah. Got kind of a very moody aesthetic. [01:19:30] Speaker A: Yeah, very moody. [01:19:31] Speaker C: Heavy shadows. [01:19:32] Speaker A: The fucking, like, window lighting is so dark, but not in a way where you can't really see what's fully going. It's just like. Like intentionally dark in a way that is like, okay, you're trying, I guess, like, but this at the end, when the movie ends. The movie ends with At a Happy New Year as a Bill Mosley transitions onto the screen as if Ricky will return. It's so funny. [01:20:02] Speaker C: The ominous and a happy New Year. [01:20:04] Speaker A: Yeah. But it's like, at this point forward, 3, 4, and 5 will basically have. But don't worry, we'll come back to this. Never come back to that. Like, they. They could have done Ricky again, and I'm glad they didn't. I don't want to be a robot by the time you hit, like, a proposed six. [01:20:24] Speaker B: I mean, this really felt like them really being like, okay, Ricky is Michael Myers now. [01:20:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:20:32] Speaker B: He's gonna be, like, pretty much mute. And he's gonna, like, just be this kind of, like, robotic, silent stalker who's chasing after this girl relentlessly. I love this scene where he's, like, hitchhiking with, like, the brain bowl on his head. I'm just like, who. Who picked that guy up? [01:20:53] Speaker A: Honestly, great Halloween costume. I would. If anyone could have. If. If this movie was more prominent, I think more people would try to give that a shot. It would be so much fun to do, like, a fish pole brain outfit. And it's. [01:21:08] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, that's a great. [01:21:10] Speaker A: I Think to me, in terms of the entertainment factor, it is the. It is the most boring of the three of them. It's the least entertaining. Yeah, I think two is the most entertaining film of this whole franchise, just for being part two. And one being a classic, you know, sleazy 80s slasher that, you know, does what it needs to do. It gets its job done. It's. It's like that. It's like. It's like writing a paper where it's like, I'm gonna get a C, but that's a pass. And it's not like the lowest passing grade I'm gonna get. I'm gonna put it in and just keep going. And. [01:21:42] Speaker C: And then I'm. And then I'm gonna double down on my next two papers and loosely connect them to this one. [01:21:48] Speaker A: Get an F minus. And then, I guess, kindness. [01:21:54] Speaker B: It is amazing. They kept going after this one, especially because it felt like they didn't even know how to end this one. They're like, how about he just falls onto, you know, whatever, like, the piece of splintered wood or whatever that she's holding up to. To kill Ricky at the end. Did you not find that, like, really confusing how he just kind of walks up and just sort of falls down clumsily? [01:22:18] Speaker A: I thought the whole basement fight was a bit confusing. It just went on for so long, and then the brother shows up, and then that does nothing. And then the detective shows up, and it's like all these different aspects of, like, it does at one point feel like since the. Because the lead is blind. Remember, she's blind because of trauma. Is that the whole thing around her, too? Is that. Yes, she's blind. Yeah. Like, I think her most iconic moment is when she calls the receptionist a. [01:22:47] Speaker B: Yes. [01:22:48] Speaker A: And it's like, okay. I mean, she kind of has a little, like, young Jennifer Connelly energy, I think, in, like, her look and in terms of, like, you know, kind of what she can bring to the table. And it. Yeah, I. It is shocking that you get two more films after this, especially since both those films are just like, nope, not even gonna touch. Which I honestly will respect them for not touching those movies and trying to, like, really get to the point where, like, this is a. This is a stage actor we found off the street. He will be the new Ricky for this. It's like, okay, well, that's. [01:23:26] Speaker B: So 4 and 5 kind of almost take the approach of, like. I don't know how well versed you guys are in, like, the Hellraiser movies. There's, like, 100 of them. [01:23:37] Speaker A: But watched. I've watched four of them. [01:23:40] Speaker B: Okay. [01:23:41] Speaker A: The last one I watched was the Adam Scott one that, like, is. [01:23:44] Speaker B: That's the fourth one. Yeah. So starting with the fifth one, which is directed by Scott Derrickson, which is horrible. [01:23:52] Speaker A: Derrickson directs the fifth one. [01:23:54] Speaker B: It's so bad. And, like, there's like, five or six of these sequels where they basically were completely unrelated horror scripts that had, like, nothing to do with Hellraiser. And they just sort of slightly tweaked them, and they're like, let's make this Hellraiser 7. We'll have, like. We'll have a cenobite, like, pop up at the end. And, like, we'll just say it's Hellraiser 7. And that's really how I feel. Like, Silent Night 4 and 5 are where it's like. They're like. I just don't. You don't get the sense watching Silent night, Deadly Night 4, that this was originally a Silent Night. Deadly Night. [01:24:31] Speaker A: It seems like from the little that is out about the. The production, it. It does seem like they were asked specifically, like, USA was asked to do for. But instead of, like, he. He was just more interested in the Lilith Eden, like, kind of com. Like the whole lesbian witch coven thing that, like, he. I think that was so engaging to him and the other screenwriter in that film that he just didn't think about the Christmas aspect at all. Like, he just was like, I was asked to do this movie. They gave me full crit. Like, they gave me, you know, carte blanche. I kind of liked this. I'm sorry it wasn't Christmas. I'll make it up, too, on Toy Maker. And then, like, the next film is like, Santa toys. Killer toys. Trees, right? Christmas trees. [01:25:17] Speaker B: I do solid night, you know, Deadly Night four. What I do, like, is it's just absolutely bizarre. [01:25:24] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. It's abstract as fuck. [01:25:27] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. It was kind of refreshing after three just to be like, okay, we're going balls to the wall, like, gross out. Like, with this. Even though it has no. No relation to anything. [01:25:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I think I was talking to you about it. Andy, when we went to the. On the way to the Avatar 3 screening was like, it's the only film that if you know somebody who's watched it where you could say, oh, yeah, like, oh, is it that one film where the lead gets sexually assaulted by Clint Howard in a butcher's fridge while a bunch of lesbian witches are around him and they're all chanting and they go, yeah, I think that's the movie, like, in a completely insane sentence. [01:26:08] Speaker C: And that's like, the least insane thing that happens in the movie. [01:26:12] Speaker A: That sounds about right. [01:26:13] Speaker B: It's a. It's a car. It's a cautionary tale against feminist bookstores, I think. Is that the movie. [01:26:19] Speaker A: A film that genuinely could have been gayer? It wasn't gay in that fight. [01:26:23] Speaker B: It worked. I will say, yeah, it could have been gayer. I think my favorite. My favorite moment in the whole movie is when she goes to her boyfriend's parents place. And that's like, the only Christmas imagery there is. And yeah, the dad asked something like, oh, like, what do you do for Christmas? What do your family do for Christmas? And her boyfriend's like, oh, dad, she's Jewish. And the dad goes, jesus. [01:26:55] Speaker A: To me, it's when Clint Howard kills the boyfriend and almost feels like he's being put out to do it. Being like, get away, man. Stop it. Quit it. Why'd you make me do this? That was the most. He stabs him 18 times and he's like, you made me do this. And it's like, clint, what the fuck is going on? [01:27:15] Speaker C: That. [01:27:16] Speaker B: That was another character that I thought was going to be a misdirect at first. Like, well, he's not going to be the bad guy. Like, he's going to be, like the creepy homeless guy who's like, trying to warn her. Like, oh, I seem creepy, but I'm actually trying to, like, warn you. It's like, no, he's. [01:27:31] Speaker A: Well, I think another thing too is I think people over the years have. I think if you look it up on Google, I think people try to connect 3 to 4 and 4 to 5 because of, you know, 4 and 5 have the same actress. And with the redhead who's the lead in four, she's the best friend in five. And I think there's people that have tried to theorize that the woman that is burned alive and falls off the roof is the blind girl from three, which I. Because I think they have the same name, the same first name. But I also think that that's insane. I don't think that is, like, why would this blind girl, like, stumble upon a bunch of lesbian witches that are gonna turn her. [01:28:12] Speaker B: Well, they kind of imply that the. The girl in five from four is the same character because at one point when she's talking to her friend at. [01:28:22] Speaker A: Five, she's like, she does. [01:28:23] Speaker B: You wouldn't believe some of the horrible things that have happened to me. And I feel like that line has. [01:28:30] Speaker A: To be referencing it. Might be. [01:28:32] Speaker B: But then, if that's. [01:28:33] Speaker C: But then, is it just, like a cheeky meta thing? I don't know. [01:28:37] Speaker B: Maybe you're right. I see. I like to think it is. I like to think it is the same character and that Clint Howard's character who shows up in five who has the same name again, his name, Ricky here is just like, a good guy now. He's just, like, reformed. He's like, you know what? [01:28:52] Speaker C: It's an. It's even though he died to the previous three films, where it's all about, you know, trauma begets trauma, and it's just an endless loop. [01:29:00] Speaker A: And now it's Clinton being like, did you get the honkers on that moment? [01:29:04] Speaker B: Hey, there's hope. There's hope. I mean, it definitely muddies the waters when you call that character Ricky, though, in four. Like, I'm sure it probably was meant to be, like, a cheeky thing, but, like, the way Ricky was so different in part three compared to part two, you know, it kind of does make you go, well, is this the same guy? [01:29:26] Speaker A: Pretty much. Like Andy said, muddy the Waters. And two, when they change Ricky's last name from Campbell to Caldwell because he gets adopted. And then I think in three, when they talk about Ricky, they call him Ricky Caldwell. So, like, they. They don't even really reference the fact that he's the brother of Billy Campbell. It's like. It's like it's the Campbell brothers. Like, they're the Santa killer. [01:29:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:29:49] Speaker A: Yes. But, I mean, it's. That's the Silent Night, Deadly Night trilogy. Like, it's. It is like it. It is genuinely. It's a wild ride, I think, through the first three. And then four and five are just, like, the most insane desserts to this wild trilogy that, like, I, as someone who is a connoisseur of trash at times, would highly recommend at least giving all of these movies a watch at some point. But, like, you can pace yourself. You can really pace yourself if you need to. [01:30:22] Speaker C: The series is quite the curiosity. And so, like, maybe. Maybe one of these every Christmas for five years is, like, a good way to do it, if you're interested. [01:30:32] Speaker A: Oh, man, I feel bad for the Deadly Night three Christmas. [01:30:37] Speaker B: It's a little punishing if you try to marathon these, I think. But if you space them out, and I honestly think 4 and 5, which I know isn't part of the official trilogy, the odd trilogy trilogy, but I think those are, like, for straight to VHS, like, 90s horror, you could do worse. I mean, you have, like, a Robot boy. Like. [01:31:03] Speaker A: Pino in five. Jesus Christ. [01:31:05] Speaker C: Yeah, well, and I know we. We committed to this episode really being about 1, 2, and 3, but, like, you know, in the spirit of this podcast, really stretching the definition of what a trilogy is, there's an argument to be made that, like, 3, 4, and 5 make up the third act of this trilogy. All of which are, like, barely tied to what the franchise is about. Complete creative, like, left turns. You know, it was. They're all doing the same. Not the same thing, but they're all taking the same choice of, well, we're just gonna basically do our own thing. Yeah. [01:31:44] Speaker A: To basically be like, technically, 1, 2 and 3 are connected. And then it's like, when I read that, I was like, what does technically mean? What do you mean? What do you. How. How close? [01:31:55] Speaker B: We can play fast and loose with our definitions because they were definitely playing very fast in this. [01:32:00] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. Call that a series. [01:32:02] Speaker C: So. [01:32:05] Speaker A: If you got that 80s slasher itch and it's Christmas time, pop one of these at. Then give it a try. And if you really want to go down that hole, there is plenty of craziness as you go down. But. [01:32:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [01:32:17] Speaker A: Mitch, thank you for joining us for this episode. Of course. To watch this. Watch this whole series knowing that I had two other people who are going to either be punished the same way as me or just have a blast in other ways. So thank you for that, Mitch. Tell. Tell everyone we can find you and what you have going on on right now. [01:32:36] Speaker B: Yeah, you can find my writing at Midwest Film Film Journal. I think I have a review of Marty supreme coming out here pretty soon. And also you can find me on letterboxd at Wounded Underscore Kite. So look for me on there and. [01:32:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Nice. [01:32:58] Speaker A: Well, again, yeah, excited to have you on for future episodes. We'll find some more trash. I mean, quality trilogies to have you. [01:33:08] Speaker B: Absolutely. I would love to. I would love to. [01:33:11] Speaker C: Yeah. I'm glad we could finally get you in on One and One that was, you know, up the old Ringenburg alleyway that it was. [01:33:19] Speaker B: That it was definitely within my forte. [01:33:21] Speaker A: I mean, we've. I think we told you in the past, if you've come across a trilogy that you think is perfect for us and you want to be on it, you love. [01:33:27] Speaker C: Yeah, we're always. [01:33:28] Speaker A: We're always pitches. Yeah. [01:33:29] Speaker B: I do have. And I do have an idea. [01:33:31] Speaker A: Please send it. Please send it to us. [01:33:33] Speaker B: Yes, I will. [01:33:34] Speaker A: We're always taking offers, and Andy's. Andy's smile has a caution to it that I love. But yeah, that is, that is the end of our trilogies for 2025. It has been a fun year filled with some crazy trilogies and we are excited for what 2026 has to offer. But until before we get to our first trilogy of next year year, we're going to do our end of the year review. We're going to do our top 10 films of 2025. Talk about maybe films that didn't make it. Maybe even talk about films that we didn't really love or just underrated stuff. [01:34:05] Speaker C: That surprised us for better or for worse. [01:34:07] Speaker A: Because really, we can't put all Stranger Things episodes on our top 10 until they're all out. [01:34:13] Speaker C: We're going to have to come up with other movies. [01:34:15] Speaker A: Oh, boy. We're going to. Yeah, there's not enough movies from the Secret we put on that list. But yeah, tune in on January 3rd when we do our top 10 films of 2025. But as always, I'm Logan Soosh. [01:34:26] Speaker C: And I'm Andy Carr. [01:34:28] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.