Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan so.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr.
[00:00:23] Speaker A: And not out trilogies. We usually take a trio of films, whether tied by cast and crew, true numerical order or thematic elements, or pneumatic elements. Or pneumatic elements. You can never tell.
We take each film and discuss the good, the bad, and the weird surrounding them. But today, now that we have taken care of our first trilogy of 2025, we are now taking care of our first prequel of 2025 with our follow up to our Odd Wolfman trilogy. While talking about the Wolfman film, the Odd Wolfman trilogy was supposed to tie in when it was going to come out last year, but got pushed back to January.
Friends, we are going to be talking about 2025's Wolfman, not Wolfman or the Wolf Man.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: Just Wolf Man.
[00:01:07] Speaker A: Just Wolf Man.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Evolutionary prequel to Dogman, also coming out this month or in January.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: Yes.
Starring Christopher Abbott and Julia Gardner. This is a film that I had to remind myself while seeing this in theater, theaters, because we both. We saw this together in theaters. We were deciding, yeah, we're gonna do this Frequel. We might as well. We literally have done every remake reimagining of this. Right.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:34] Speaker A: That studios have made in the past three decades. Might as well talk about this one. But the crazy thing about this film is it is originally, in case you don't know, Lee Whannell, who directs wolfman, also directed 2020's the Invisible Man.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:01:48] Speaker A: Which is a great.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
[00:01:52] Speaker A: And because of that, he was attached to Wolfman almost immediately. And the original idea was going to be Ryan Gosling as the lead. That would be the vehicle for the Wolfman story in terms of being, I would assume, similar story to what this film is in terms of just like becoming the wolf.
[00:02:11] Speaker B: Yeah. Well. And I think at one point even Ryan Gosling, like, had his own pitch. Like his. Like, I don't know if he was exactly gonna direct, but it was like his idea for the movie with him starring in it. So, yeah, it's changed some hands. This was originally gonna be Dark Universe.
[00:02:29] Speaker A: At one point, it was Johnny Depp.
[00:02:33] Speaker B: I think he was Invisible Man.
[00:02:34] Speaker A: Was he invisible? No. Yeah. Cause Johnny Depp was Invisible Man. Javier Bardem was Frankenstein.
[00:02:40] Speaker B: That sounds right.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: And then they had Bride of Frankenstein already lined up, too, I thought.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: I think there was a brief rumor. I don't know that it lasted long or if it held any weight, but there was a brief rumor that DWAYNE Johnson was tied into Wolfman.
[00:02:56] Speaker A: Well, thank God he did write one instead.
Well, that's also talking about a cinematic universe that does not exist.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Never really happened.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: And did not got one movie with some seed planting in it.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: It truly was. Such a hypothetical trilogy would have been non existent in this universe because the Mummy just not make money to save its life.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:19] Speaker A: What a wild movie. Maybe one day we'll talk about that if we talk about the Mummy. The Mummy.
[00:03:24] Speaker B: Mummy adaptations. Yeah.
[00:03:28] Speaker A: But yeah, this film was basically, I think announced in late 2020. 2021. After the invisible man did as well as. And then it kind of fell into the cracks of like Universal.
[00:03:40] Speaker B: Right.
[00:03:40] Speaker A: Just kind of like scheduling.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: Universal is always a mess. So it's just like anytime they announce something, you're like, okay, yeah, I'll wait and see a trailer.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: It had yet it had really the end. The energy of. Well, since Dark Universe isn't working out, I guess Leigh Whannell is making more Universal monsters.
[00:03:57] Speaker B: Yeah, right.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: Which is not in any way the case or the feel when you watch the Invisible Man.
[00:04:04] Speaker B: We're all living in Leigh Whannell's dark universe.
[00:04:07] Speaker A: Truly. And in case you don't know who Leigh Whannell is at this point, he got his start with James Wan, not only co writing the original Saul, but also co starring with Gary Ellis.
He is in the bathroom with Gary.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: Ellis, one of the two guys.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: He also, I think wrote the second Saw. But after that, pretty much James Wan and Leigh Whannell did a lot of dual writing credits on other James Wan films.
[00:04:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: About mid to late 2000 and tens, Leigh Whannell got his directorial debut doing the Insidious Chapter three.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Which he had written the first two or co written the first two.
[00:04:47] Speaker A: And he also plays Specs in the Insidious film. So if we. We probably talked about him in the. Our Insidious trilogy. We did.
Insidious Chapter three is the worst of the Insidious films. I think I also said that when we talked about it. And I would say it's less about him and more about the script. But he did write, so that is definitely him.
But after Insidious Chapter three, it's not all bad because immediately after that he does Upgrade, which is a lot of fun. And then he does the Invisible man, which is a lot of fun.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, fun. It is fun. But it's also a great movie in ways that are not fun.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: No, absolutely. Upgrade is a fun.
[00:05:31] Speaker B: Upgrade is a blast. Yeah.
[00:05:33] Speaker A: The Invisible man is actually a really great time. Like, it's really well put together.
[00:05:38] Speaker B: It is fascinating kind of abuse fable thing.
[00:05:43] Speaker A: Now. Now it makes me feel. Now you're making me feel bad for saying it's a fun time.
[00:05:47] Speaker B: No, no, I said it was fun earlier. Like 3 minutes ago I thought it was fun. And then I got thinking about it. I was like, fun might not be.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: The right one to be fair, but.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: It'S a good movie.
[00:05:54] Speaker A: The last thing I saw the Invisible man since I saw it in theaters was like the behind the scenes where a green screen guy is just pulling Elizabeth Moss by the ankle.
[00:06:03] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:03] Speaker A: It's like that looks silly and fun.
[00:06:05] Speaker B: Right.
[00:06:05] Speaker A: That's not the case at all in the film itself. But it is fascinating to think about the Invisible man while watching this because the Invisible man as a film is a surprise because of just how good that film is, that visual storytelling out gate. And when you get into Wolfman, I mean, in case you don't know, we are basically going to probably spoil the whole thing.
[00:06:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:06:30] Speaker A: Want to know what we think? I would say it's worth a watch as a rental down the line.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like a really bored on a Sunday stream. Yeah. Or something. Yeah.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: If you got Peacock.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: Because I don't just. I don't think either of us like disliked it, but I'm also not gonna rush to recommend it because it's kind of like just fine.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: I like what little bit of creativity does seem to kind of trickle in.
[00:06:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:06:57] Speaker A: In terms of the lore surrounding how they handle the grounded nature of the werewolf or the wolf man. It's a different thing.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: Feels like a movie that had a lot of really interesting ideas injected into it. And then over all this time of these iterations and people coming and going and the studio, I'm sure getting their hands on it and chopping it up, you know, it's kind of lost a lot of cohesion, but there are some little nice touches in there still.
[00:07:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's because again, Christopher Abbott, I love that man. That man literally can show up in shitty films, which he has in the past. He literally was in Craven the Hunter last year as everyone's favorite Marvel villain. The Foreigner.
[00:07:39] Speaker B: The Foreigner, yeah.
[00:07:41] Speaker A: He got that paycheck. He's shown up in plenty of great films. Possessor. It comes at night. He's in first man with Ryan Gosling for a small amount of time. He's been. He's been working for quite a while. And I see him as like, the lead is great, but at the same time, the Big thing about this film that is kind of like. I would say the biggest bummer about Wolfman is the fact that, like, there just isn't a lot to chew on. And that's not even pun intended. Like, not even trying to. Because it's a wolf.
[00:08:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:13] Speaker A: Dog. It's more just like the things that we get compared to in Invisible man, where a lot of it is shown to us.
[00:08:20] Speaker B: Right.
[00:08:20] Speaker A: A lot is told. A lot is told to us very early on.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:25] Speaker A: Not much is used to, like, really build off of, other than what you kind of expect the story to go.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's. It's a disappointment because, I mean, Leigh Whannell does not have, you know, the most robust filmography as a director, but his previous two movies were full of energy and verve and a very specific.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:08:48] Speaker B: Angle. You know, I mean, the way he adapted the Invisible man into, you know, something that was relevant for the period it was releasing in was really smart and clever and Upgrade was a really nice kind of refreshing take on an action movie. And then this just doesn't really feel like it has that, like, kind of new concept to it. It kind of feels like it's sort of gesturing at some fun ideas, but, like, mostly just. Just kind of a rote little monster movie.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: Because the thing about the Invisible man that we've already kind of established is that it was not intended to roll into other universal monster movie remakes.
[00:09:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:33] Speaker A: So a lot of what the Invisible man does in terms of trying to ground and explain as to how an invisible man can make sense in the modern world.
[00:09:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:43] Speaker A: Is. Is insane in that movie.
[00:09:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: I still think about how absolutely insane that film just, like, goes like, yeah, this is why an invisible man exists. And it's.
[00:09:53] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:54] Speaker A: What are you fucking talking about?
[00:09:56] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:09:56] Speaker A: And then you get to this movie where it's, like, it's clear that due to the Invisible man, they're also attempting a grounded take on the Wolf Man.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:05] Speaker A: And while I would argue that it's a much easier way to build off of that compared to how they do the Invisible man explanation, there's just not enough there to really warrant, like, a. Just more than, like, a watch or two.
[00:10:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, there's just not.
Yeah, that's a good point. Because it is kind of doing a similar thing to Invisible man in that it's trying to ground the logic of the monster in the modern world.
But there's not an. Like, an intrigue to the kind of explanation behind the monster because it just kind of reveals to you in the opening text card of the film. Like, there's this old Native American legend of the man who disappears into the woods and becomes a wolf.
[00:10:56] Speaker A: Yeah. A hitchhiker in the 90s gets attacked by something and disappears.
[00:11:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And then it becomes this kind of legend in the region.
But then the film doesn't really ever expand upon that.
[00:11:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:09] Speaker B: In any way it goes.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: There's a disease that the indigenous people believe is called. I can't remember what the term was.
[00:11:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: But it translates into the face of the wolf.
[00:11:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:20] Speaker A: I don't even think we get a Wolfman title card.
[00:11:22] Speaker B: If I remember correctly, you might be right about.
[00:11:24] Speaker A: I think we literally just get the face of the wolf. And I thought it was gonna do that thing where, like, every word, the.
[00:11:30] Speaker B: Word, like, rotates and becomes wolf man.
[00:11:33] Speaker A: Or like, it was just gonna, like, every word slowly dissolves except for wolf.
[00:11:37] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:11:38] Speaker A: No, it just is like. No, there is nothing about this film that screams studio intervention. There's nothing about this film that screams like, they were like, Ryan Gosling was halfway through this film, and then they had to cut him out and have to redo it all. Like, everything about this kind of feels like, at worst, maybe an obligation, but I wouldn't even say it that strong.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:00] Speaker A: Like, I feel like it's very much like, considering now that we're in this spot where, like, vampires are now in this unapologetic space of, like, now we can do Gothic vampires again because Nosferatu has made it cool.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: Right.
[00:12:15] Speaker A: And now that as we're recording this, right before we even. Like, I think right before we saw Wolfman, it was announced that Robert Eggers, who did Nosferatu last year, his next film is Werewolf.
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: Which is literally his take on a 13th century.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Medieval werewolves.
[00:12:33] Speaker A: And that's probably gonna be rad as hel.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:12:36] Speaker A: And now it's gonna be this thing where it's like other companies are gonna be like, what the fuck? What do we.
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Right.
[00:12:40] Speaker A: And with the Wolfman, it's like. Or, sorry, Wolfman and Wolf. Wolf Man. It's like the thing that's so fascinating and kind of funny about any kind of remake surrounding the original Wolf man is the fact that out of all of the narratives that the universal monster movies follow, Wolfman is entirely original. Frankenstein is based off of Mary Shelley, you know, Bram Stoker for Dracula. I think Creature from the Black Lagoon is also based off of a novel.
[00:13:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:09] Speaker A: Invisible man is based off of a novel.
[00:13:11] Speaker B: Yeah. In terms of. Yeah. It's not an adaptation of a previously existing work.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: And so it's funny when it took, like.
[00:13:19] Speaker B: It's just kind of generally based on the concept of werewolves.
[00:13:22] Speaker A: Yeah. It took, like, 50 years just to get to 50 plus years to get to a point where, like, Benicio Del Toro's version is just, like, we're gonna remake the original.
[00:13:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:13:32] Speaker A: And they do a spin on it that I think is fun, but, like, it doesn't really do much with that twist.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that. I mean, that's a movie, too, that kind of falls into it, like, has some flair for a minute, and then it kind of falls into obligation. Like this one does.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: The makeup is great in that movie, but, like, very much. If anything, this Wolfman is the most palatable.
[00:14:02] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:14:03] Speaker A: I mean, it's any of the, like, the rematches or remakes. I mean, again. Cause it's like, when you get. When you get wolf, you basically have a midlife crisis film that pretends to be a werewolf movie.
[00:14:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: And that movie is basically weird the entire time up until the point where they go, ooh, there's a murder mystery plot when you know exactly who and what is involved in that.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:25] Speaker A: And then the Del Toro film is. Just has an exceptional amount of talent in the makeup department. I would even say cinematography wise, acting wise. And it.
[00:14:35] Speaker B: Atmosphere.
[00:14:36] Speaker A: It's pretty boring.
[00:14:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:14:39] Speaker A: Overall, too long.
[00:14:41] Speaker B: Yeah. And I do think those two, Wolf and the Wolfman, both kind of edge this one out, this new one on. Just kind of like, weird factor. Like, they're Fear a Little Stranger.
They have some fun quirks to them. Not great movies by any means. Not really even good movies, but.
And, you know, I didn't hate this one either, but this one kind of feels the most, like, distilled down to, like, studio bits and parts.
[00:15:19] Speaker A: You can tell that Leigh Whannell has some fun ideas.
[00:15:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:23] Speaker A: I love the. Just how the farm area looks like the farmhouse and the greenhouse and the barn. Everything about it screams, here's a set piece here. Here's a little thing here, thing there. And of course, all of it gets used.
[00:15:37] Speaker B: Right.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: But since it's low budget, it's not, like, noticeably lower budget than what you'd expect.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it's 25 million, which does.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: Well with its budget. And I would say that, like, the makeup is really good, but it's very bold in its interpretation of how it handles the wolf.
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And at the same time, very reserved.
[00:15:57] Speaker A: Arguably the weirdest showing it to you. Yeah. The weirdest part about the Wolf man is that the wolf man that we see for the majority of the film is basically.
How do I put this?
Fleshy in between.
[00:16:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:16] Speaker A: He does get hairy by the end of it. But not to the point that you think a wolfman would.
[00:16:20] Speaker B: No, it's not. The covered in fur, gray, hulking monster.
[00:16:26] Speaker A: There is a shot, though, I swear is intentional, and I guess it could be. It could not be. But, like, there's a shot where Christopher Abbott is in mid wolf mode. He's in the silhouette. And honestly, with position and the outfit.
[00:16:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:16:40] Speaker A: It feels very Lon Chaney Jr. Inspired.
[00:16:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:44] Speaker A: And yes, it. Honestly, it just. It's. It. I wish the emotional aspect kind of hit harder because there's this. There's this narrative about kind of like, not necessarily physical abuse, but more like trauma surrounding, you know, parents and how you were raised and how that kind of leads you to be afraid that you're gonna end up like your parents.
[00:17:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Ultimately leads to the most straightforward version of that where it's like, oh, it's not a metaphor. You were literally becoming a wolf, just like your father has become.
[00:17:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:20] Speaker A: And so it's. It comes this point of, like, you. The best version of this film is when you are just absolutely devastated that this man cannot understand his family. He's losing all humanity.
[00:17:34] Speaker B: The tragedy of it is probably the most successful, which emotional.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: I have to give this movie props because even though there's tragedy to the Del Toro film, and I would even argue the Nicholson film, this is the one out of all the remakes and rematching that feels the most tragic.
[00:17:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's. It's dripping with, like. I mean, it becomes kind of depressing at a certain point. And that's not necessarily a criticism.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: No.
[00:18:03] Speaker B: But, yeah, this definitely has more of a handle on, and I think just more of a focus on, like, making it an emotional story almost more than a monster movie.
[00:18:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Because before we even get to the countryside that leads to the wolf. Like, we get. We get a flashback to our lead character as a child and his upbringing. And you get a little bit of wolfman in that. Probably the best sequence in the movie.
[00:18:34] Speaker B: When he's with his dad hunting, when.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: He goes by himself and use, for a brief moment, see what a full fledged wolf man could look.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:43] Speaker A: I can't wait to get, like a high screen, like a HD res. Yeah. Because, like, I was like, what? Oh, like, it was the most. I kind of was, like, uncomfortable watching the movie.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Because good tension in that.
[00:18:55] Speaker A: And it's really well done. And of course, they Kind of with that again later in the film and just not as much because you kind of. By the time it gets to the point in the film where it gets to its climax, you kind of already assume where it's going to go.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: While I admire the film for being as straightforward as it is, because it's hilarious how the other two Wolfman remakes basically are just, like, weirdly convoluted in certain points.
[00:19:20] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:21] Speaker A: And then this one is literally like, nope. Happens in one night. Dad gets infected. They have to fight a wolf man.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:28] Speaker A: It's cut and dry, and it's like, hey, I appreciate that. But at the same time, not a lot of room for imagination besides the little sparks here and there.
[00:19:37] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:38] Speaker A: And it gets to a degree where it just has a lot of cool things that are involved in it. But, like, ultimately, is it enough for a viewing? I would only say if you just want to see a modern take on.
[00:19:54] Speaker B: A classic story, kind of. But even then, it's not really a take on that story. No.
It's basically an entirely original story that just uses the Wolfman name and is.
[00:20:06] Speaker A: About a werewolf, which, again, is basically.
[00:20:09] Speaker B: That's what wolf is.
[00:20:10] Speaker A: And that's kind of what a Visible man is, where it's like, the invisible man is not a crazy scientist that spilled all his little goop all over himself and then became.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: But if you're, like, a werewolf enthusiast and you're looking for, like, a, you know, a kind of original interpretation of that myth, that would be one reason to watch this.
But, yeah, it's. I mean, it.
[00:20:35] Speaker A: It's not worth it if you're a Julia Garner fan. Not because she's bad in this.
[00:20:40] Speaker B: Doesn't make the best use of her.
[00:20:41] Speaker A: There's not a lot. Yeah.
[00:20:43] Speaker B: Her character, I think, probably suffers the most from being, like, one note or undeveloped.
[00:20:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Because we spend a lot of time in the flashback at the very beginning of the film. A lot more time than I was expecting.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:58] Speaker A: And then we get, I would say, a shorter time with the modern day, with our lead, with Christopher Abbott and his family and, like, the dynamic. And because of that, there are a lot of moments that feel just out of left field where he gets mad at his wife for talking on the phone at the dinner table, even though there's not food on the table.
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:21:19] Speaker A: There's a moment where Julia Garner goes, I think my daughter. I think our daughter likes you more than me. We've literally had one scene with the three of them.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: Right. Yeah. There's a lot of Kind of pre existing dynamics that are sort of mentioned but not really shown a lot. No.
And yeah, it's a weird movie because it does seem, you know, notably focused on being like a family story and you know, having that emotional resonance of like father and daughter and generational trauma and stuff like that. But then it doesn't really flesh any of that out. So what you're left with is like a monster movie that's less about the monster than it is about the character relationships. But the characters aren't that interesting.
[00:22:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:07] Speaker B: So you're kind of left wondering, well, what was this movie for?
[00:22:11] Speaker A: There is one cute moment where early on it's established that Christopher Abbott's character has a cute little quirk with his daughter where he says that his daughter can read minds.
[00:22:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:22] Speaker A: And she puts his hand, her hand on his head and she says, what am I thinking is like, my daughter's the best. And that's kind of a cute little thing. And then ultimately later on it's used as a way to kind of give him a sense of humanity during the wolf process.
[00:22:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: And then it's. It happens once and then it really doesn't come back again. And it's a cute little moment, but ultimately like it has interesting ideas in terms of like the film. The trailers don't give away the fact that Christopher Abbott as a wolfman is not really an antagonist until the last 30ish minutes. And that's.
[00:22:58] Speaker B: And even then like a stretch. Yeah, barely.
[00:23:01] Speaker A: Because at that point, even when he's like that, they still find ways to stop. Gets to a point where he is la. He's footless, he's one foot less.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: Which very much feels like a saw.
[00:23:12] Speaker B: Feels like a soft.
[00:23:14] Speaker A: He's like a cheeky thing from when now. But yeah, when going into this, I think the only really thing I heard when I'll talk about the film is that he was mainly inspired of all the films to inspire a Wolfman film. It makes sense. But it is kind of a wild pool, which is Cronenberg's the Fly.
[00:23:34] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:23:35] Speaker A: He really loved the idea of like what if that process of being nasty and gross when you, when Goldblum was coming to fly. What if that's kind of how it happens when you're a wolf.
[00:23:45] Speaker B: Yeah. And that's. I mean once you say that. I hadn't heard that. Once you say that, that's pretty apparent in the movie because like we spend the bulk of the film like mid transformation. Yes. He doesn't really become like the full on wolfman until the sort of the climax of the film, because he's kind of gradually descending the whole time, which was not something I expected from the movie. I didn't realize we were gonna be, like, with him the whole time struggling against that. I thought it was gonna be kind of like, you know, the middle portion of the movie or something. And then he becomes the monster.
But. And that is something I liked because I think, you know, they have the external threat of the wolfman that already exists in the woods, who's chasing them, chases them into his father's house.
And then, of course, they're trapped inside with the dad, who is kind of losing his humanity while there's a monster on the outside.
[00:24:48] Speaker A: And you could tell he's had this affliction for quite a while because his wolf man look is very much in that in between of, like, full hairy wolfman and Abbott's.
[00:25:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:02] Speaker A: Kind of like losing hair. Fleshy.
Very, very new. Very new, like, look in terms of just, like, the body trying to comprehend what the fuck is happening to it.
[00:25:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: Well, the dad has, like. He's got the eye change. He's got fangs. That seem pretty wolf man.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:23] Speaker A: The hair all over his body very much feels like that. Still young compared to, like, the wolf man. We get the very beginning, which is very clearly, like, maybe years. Yeah, maybe at least a few months. And it's like. It gives this idea of, like, yeah, there could be other wolf men. That'd be kind of rad. We could see more of these. And it's like, no, we don't. Because they also would have been cool.
[00:25:46] Speaker B: If we saw a pack of wolfman.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: God, it would be if he, like, howled for them and then they all showed up. Like, why wouldn't they? Like, at that point, like, it's. Again, it has the inkling of something very interesting in terms of, like, there are a bunch of people who live in the Oregon or the Washington wilderness. No, it's Oregon. The Oregon wilderness that almost feel like they're keeping the monster at bay.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:10] Speaker A: By kind of hunting and making sure it's staying in its areas.
In reality, that's barely just established a little bit.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:20] Speaker A: And to a point where it's like, you know, if you. I think this whole time I've told people about the film. Like, any time I tell them about that, they go like, oh, do they ever establish, like. Do they ever, like, build upon it and it's like, no, no, not really.
[00:26:32] Speaker B: They don't really expand on any of the ideas in this.
[00:26:34] Speaker A: Yeah, it's cool when it really, like, plays around with the wolfman, you know, idea and the fact that it's like. I mean, the gnarliest thing the film does is show, like, the closest to a full transformation that Abbott has, which is basically like the. His chest kind of caving into it.
[00:26:53] Speaker B: Yeah. Just caves in. It's like fingernails fall out.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And the coolest thing I think I've seen a werewolf Wolf man film do with a transformation is that his jaw becomes misaligned because of the growing bones in, like, his cheek area.
[00:27:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:27:08] Speaker A: So he grabs his whole bottom jaw and just snaps it out of place.
[00:27:14] Speaker B: Yeah. It just, like, yanks it out so that it juts out.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: There's just a lot of fun stuff here that, like, you can see the inklings of something that could be pretty great. But ultimately it.
At the end, it is a film that came out in January. It's not bad. It's not great.
[00:27:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And all of its. All of its interesting ideas are just a little. They're cut short or they're not tied together or they're. Yeah. It kind of feels like one of those movies that's gone through several iterations, which it has.
[00:27:47] Speaker A: Yeah. And everything's a bit undercooked. And again, there have been worst horror films to come out in a January time slot.
[00:27:55] Speaker B: True.
[00:27:57] Speaker A: And I would even argue that this is not even Whannell's worst film. I'd still say Chapter two. Chapter three is bad. And this isn't bad. It's just fine.
[00:28:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. It's. Yeah. Mediocre. Yeah.
[00:28:10] Speaker A: There's like, some genuine. There's like a chilling moment here and there, but it's not to the point of, like, oh, gosh, I would get so scared. Like.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: Right. It's fleeting moments in an otherwise kind of boring movie. Yeah.
[00:28:24] Speaker A: And it just.
It's a bummer that it's not as good as the Invisible man, but at the same time, I'm also glad that it doesn't feel like it's just like, let's do the Invisible man again.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: Right. Yeah.
[00:28:35] Speaker A: It's not like a.
[00:28:36] Speaker B: It's not a. Oh, it's some rich tech guy.
[00:28:39] Speaker A: Yeah. He has a fur suit that he puts on. He kind of looks like a wolf man. Yeah. No, it's. It literally is just like. I don't know, maybe the wolf is just like this disease, like, supernatural disease that happens in a part in Oregon that no one lives.
[00:28:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: And since no one's out there, no one bothers to hand, like, figure out what's going on.
[00:29:00] Speaker B: Right.
[00:29:01] Speaker A: Which is like. I like that idea in terms of, like, if you're gonna do more of these types of universal monster remakes, if you're gonna do, like, that's probably how you should do Black Lagoon. Like, if you did a Creature from the Black Lagoon film where it's like, there's a little watering hole out of the middle of bum fuck nowhere that is like, oh, there's a fish man in it.
[00:29:20] Speaker B: No, I think Creature from the Black Lagoon should be a tech suit for sure.
[00:29:23] Speaker A: They should all be tech suits.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:25] Speaker A: Actually, it should just be a swimsuit. It should literally be like.
[00:29:29] Speaker B: This is an underwater ghillie suit.
[00:29:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Like. Like just a black ghillie suit.
[00:29:34] Speaker B: He's just a serial killer.
[00:29:36] Speaker A: Yeah. I. It's again, it's funny to think that it. It. I think, thankfully, the one thing. And again, this is a very low bar to hit, but, like, unlike the most recent studio vampire films we have gotten, excluding Nosferatu, which is just unabashedly a gothic vampire story.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:55] Speaker A: Um, I'm glad that we have a wolfman film in the modern age that isn't afraid to be a wolfman movie, at least.
[00:30:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:30:02] Speaker A: It really is, like, it's still. It's still wolfman, you know, coded all over the place. And very much is having ideas that are fun and also is not going for the easiest, cheapest things in terms of, like, God, if it had been. There was a part of me when we were watching this, and I was like, I swear to God, if we go into wolf vision, which there is like, a wolf vision that is.
Shows that the reason why they kind of go crazy is because their senses get so heightened, including their sight, that humans just look like creatures.
[00:30:37] Speaker B: Well, yeah. And I mean, I think he's literally. He's losing his ability to understand English.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: He is.
[00:30:44] Speaker B: As it goes.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: But there's a part of me, and I wonder if there's an earlier script that kind of has something like this where they talk to one another in that. In that space. Because why wouldn't they know? Why wouldn't they not understand each other and then just have something where it's like, I did not want his father to be like. I don't know. Being a wolf man's pretty rad. I don't need another wolf man story that is like, the other wolf that's in the story is going like, I don't know. I kind of like being a wolf.
[00:31:14] Speaker B: Right.
[00:31:15] Speaker A: Look at these flips I can do after. After wolf don't you feel powerful, son? Yeah. After Wolf and the Wolfman, having both, like, two different versions of that kind of character, it's just great to get to a point where it's like, no.
[00:31:29] Speaker B: This is just a curse.
[00:31:30] Speaker A: Yeah, this. This sucks.
[00:31:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: Which, again, it. They could have made it a lot more fun in the. In the way of just like, oh, let's just watch this guy tear and rip into everyone. But, no, they commit to the tragedy aspect of it.
[00:31:42] Speaker B: Yeah, it's.
[00:31:43] Speaker A: It really is just. Unfortunately, what could have really amplified that tragedy is actually caring about the emotional aspect.
[00:31:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Having more developed relationships between the characters and. Yeah.
[00:31:57] Speaker A: Not having to go for, like, the cheap, cheaper moments where it feels like you don't want to tell the audience how to feel, but at the same time, they kind of have to, because they don't really have the time to, like, really.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: Right.
[00:32:09] Speaker A: Like, yeah, it really is, like. It gets to a point where the family dynamic is so off that, like, at a certain point in the film, a guy who I can't remember the actor's name, but he, I think, believe, has been in every Leigh Whannell film since, like, Chapter maybe, Upgrade.
[00:32:23] Speaker B: Oh, is he the guy who plays his, like, neighbor.
[00:32:26] Speaker A: Yeah, like, neighbor's son. That they kind of knew each other.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:29] Speaker A: Yeah. When he is like, hey, can you give me a ride? This dude is not friendly. He feels very creepy and uncomfortable. And anyone in a normal situation would just, you know, be like, well, my daughter and my wife are in here. This make them uncomfortable?
[00:32:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: No, he just lets him walk in, and it's like, there's, like, they have a mom. They have a moment where it's like, you must feel pretty lucky having this family. And he's like, yeah, I sure do. And that's, like, really all the little moments we get. And.
Yeah, it's one of those things where I can't even say that anyone is miscast, because I don't even think there's really much there to justify saying that. Development wise. It's. It's.
[00:33:13] Speaker B: It's not miscasting. It's just poor. No utilization of talent.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: Because Christopher Abbott's eyes are just so wide. And. Yeah, you can tell what Whannell and the company. Saul and him.
[00:33:27] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, I mean, he's somebody who really knows how to give a physical performance. I mean, possessor alone qualifies him for a movie like this.
[00:33:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:33:37] Speaker B: It's just. Yeah. It's just unfortunate that they don't give him enough, like, material to work with outside the physical laboriousness of the transformation, which, like. Yeah, we kind of said it earlier, but, like, there are some pretty awesome physical acting moments from him in this. Yeah. I mean, especially the sequence. Whereas he starts licking his wound, we'll say, oh, yeah. Scratching and chewing on himself and very dog like behavior, which is nice and gnarly. Yeah, that was a nice moment.
[00:34:11] Speaker A: It's again, we talked about a lot in our odd Wolfman trilogy, but, like, basically every film that came out post American Werewolf in London basically felt like they had an inferiority complex with trying to do that to the point where I think they even Stan Winston do the American Werewolf in London.
[00:34:32] Speaker B: I think so. Yeah.
[00:34:33] Speaker A: He does the. He does the VFX for wolf.
[00:34:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:34:36] Speaker A: So it's like. And even with that, it doesn't feel like he feels comfortable doing similar stuff.
[00:34:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:42] Speaker A: So it's different types of wolfman makeup and stuff. And then, of course, in the Beniso del Toro film, a lot of CG is used on top of an actual suit.
[00:34:49] Speaker B: Yes.
Helped out with American Werewolf.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: And then in this, it doesn't feel like it has any kind of like trying to be, like, trying not to feel like American Werewolf London or other kinds of versions. It really feels like they were committed to the fly deterioration of the humanity. But the evolution of the werewolf in him, the wolf in him, that you get, like a good physicality from Abbott, get a good look of him where it's like, very similar to the fly when he starts to, like, get really, really ugly.
[00:35:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:22] Speaker A: And, yeah, the stuff where it's like the wound and the scratching and the nibbling, the. The claws coming out of the fingernails is a really good bit.
[00:35:31] Speaker B: Yeah.
Oh, it was Rick Baker who worked on Wolf and American Werewolf.
[00:35:37] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:35:38] Speaker B: Stan Winston helped out with American Werewolf.
[00:35:40] Speaker A: Okay. Cool Rick Baker thing.
[00:35:41] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:35:42] Speaker A: I knew it was something Baker, but I couldn't remember the first name.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:45] Speaker A: But the effects very much, thankfully don't feel like, oh, my gosh, we're not. Please don't be mad at us. We're not American Werewolf.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: Yeah. They're not really chickening out. Like, they're clearly going for an original take on the physicality of the werewolf.
[00:36:03] Speaker A: American Werewolf at this point is like 40 years old.
[00:36:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:07] Speaker A: You just gotta. If you have an idea, just go with it. Don't feel right.
[00:36:13] Speaker B: Yeah. It's just kind of a shame that they don't.
I don't know. I don't know that showing more of the wolfman was the answer in this, but, like, maybe doing more with the transformation, having more sequences of body horror or something to show that off.
I kind of like that they went, you know, kind of a strange interpretation for the sort of fully realized wolfman form.
But it's not.
It's not terribly imposing, I don't think. Like, it's not a super scary. I mean, you know, in real life, if you saw somebody transform into that, yes, that'd be horrifying. But like. Yeah, it's not a very scary creature. It's just kind of a dude who grows hair and his jaw hangs loose and. Yeah.
[00:37:01] Speaker A: The downside of the grounded logic aspect is the fact that it's like. Yeah. At the end of the day. Again, rewatching the original Wolf man for the trilogy last year. Like, I love that movie, but it is not perfect anyway.
[00:37:15] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:15] Speaker A: Right at the end of the day, it is literally just a dude at his normal height with like a.
[00:37:21] Speaker B: Running around with scrunched in dog face.
[00:37:24] Speaker A: Howling with like a shirt on.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: And if you're gonna do an accurate interpretation of that, you're gonna have a guy who has like a wolf like face to him that's wearing a shirt. Or maybe in this case with Chris Rabbit not wearing a shirt.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:37:39] Speaker A: But just still being like, it's the same height. It's one of the reasons why both wolf and especially beneath version, like, try to bulk out or make it a little bit more animalistic.
[00:37:51] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Kind of beef them up and. Yeah. Make them a little more inhuman.
[00:37:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, as in this, it's like the inhumane stuff doesn't really hit until towards the end of the film when they.
When Christopher Abbott, again in PR in mid wolf mode, takes out a full wolf man that apparently wolf man for way longer than he probably has.
[00:38:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:18] Speaker A: And so it's just kind of. It's at that point, once you figure like, oh, I guess it doesn't really matter how long you're a wolf man. If you just get a good hit in, you just pull. You pull that out. I guess it works. I mean, not saying it would go up a half star if they like actually showed the hitchhiker again.
[00:38:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:38:37] Speaker A: But it would be kind of nice just to see that last form of being like, even if Abbott never finishes and gets to that.
[00:38:43] Speaker B: Yeah. What is. What is a full wolf look like?
[00:38:47] Speaker A: But. Yeah, every emotional beat is pretty telegraphed. Pretty easily telegraphed.
[00:38:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:54] Speaker A: All the quote unquote set pieces are small but creative at times. Oh. And very much so is, you know, fun at the moment. But I'm not gonna Be like, oh, my favorite scene was this. It was more just like. It was cool that you tried that.
[00:39:10] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:11] Speaker A: And ultimately it, like I said, it is a film that came out in January.
[00:39:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:18] Speaker A: It's like a solid. I gave it a three out of five, but even so.
[00:39:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I'd be like two and a half or three.
[00:39:24] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like a strong, strong five out of ten. Light six.
[00:39:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Right.
[00:39:29] Speaker A: Like, it could be a lot worse. It could be a lot weirder. And I think it's blessing and a curse is that it's not as weird as the other remakes. But ultimately, I'm glad it's not shitty. That's very low.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: Terrible.
[00:39:44] Speaker A: But when it comes to the end of this year, when we talk about our favorite films of the year, I'm probably gonna forget.
[00:39:49] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, this will probably be like, number 11 of the year. So, like, just missed the top 10.
[00:39:55] Speaker A: Oh, man. I feel sorry if.
[00:39:57] Speaker B: That'd be a rough year.
[00:39:59] Speaker A: This fucking movie made your top 10 for this year. I'd be like, oh, man. Oh, my gosh. Poor Andy didn't enjoy a single thing.
[00:40:06] Speaker B: To like, that's intervention time, Andy, you need to alter your relationship.
[00:40:12] Speaker A: That's when I bring in Evan and we do Venom trilogy again.
Be like, you remember this? You like this?
[00:40:18] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:20] Speaker A: But, yeah, that's Wolfman. It is a film that exists that came out in January.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: Yeah. Unfortunately, not as odd as our. As the members of our Odd Wolfman trilogy. No.
[00:40:32] Speaker A: But, hey, that's. That's what happens when you roll the dice on things like this. It kind of happens like that. And hey, if you are interested in seeing the Invisible man or Upgrade and you haven't seen them. I know. At least Upgrade is on Netflix as of this recording. And the Invisible man is on Peacock.
Or is it a Warner Brothers film? It's a Universal film. Right.
[00:40:54] Speaker B: It's going to be.
[00:40:55] Speaker A: It's got to be on Peacock.
[00:40:56] Speaker B: It's on Netflix, Apple. Oh, it's rentable on Apple.
Wow. It's not dreaming for free anyway, but anywhere. But it is rentable everywhere.
[00:41:08] Speaker A: Yeah, I would. I would. Out of all the films we've talked about today, highly recommend the Invisible man. Especially if you have to choose between the two of these. Just watch the Invisible man. And then if you have a curiosity, like Andy said, like a bored Sunday.
[00:41:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:22] Speaker A: And this is on tv. Give it a watch.
But, yeah. Thank you all for listening. And we're so excited to kick off February, at least with our first prequel, because now that we got that dog out of the way. It is now.
[00:41:36] Speaker B: The dog is no longer in us.
[00:41:37] Speaker A: The dog is no longer in us. But you know what is in us? The season of love.
[00:41:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:42] Speaker A: Not only just the season of love, the season of resolution, and also the.
[00:41:45] Speaker B: Season of loving Maternity.
[00:41:49] Speaker A: Maternity in honor of Valentine's Day. As well as just the situation of the fact that when it comes to holiday films, there aren't a lot of examples of that that feel work as well as this director's trio of holiday films from 2010, 2011 and 2016.
[00:42:13] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:42:13] Speaker A: That is Valentine's Day, New Year's Eve and Mother's Day. We are talking about Garry Marshall's holiday trilogy.
[00:42:21] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:42:22] Speaker A: We had a friend last year who you, if you have been a listener of the Pod for a while, again, thank you for listening, but last year we did an episode with him about God's Not Dead sequels.
[00:42:34] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:42:35] Speaker A: And so our friend of the Pod and friend in real life, Jake Atwood, is coming back to talk about Garry Marshall's trio of holiday extravaganzas.
[00:42:46] Speaker B: Yeah. And. And you know, if, if you love it, if you hate it, blame Jake because this was his idea.
[00:42:53] Speaker A: You know, it's funny as I wonder because we're just a real transparency. We're about to start that trilogy. Watch after. As soon as we finish this. I wonder if he'll ever hear this part because I don't think he.
[00:43:07] Speaker B: We'll find out next episode.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: We'll find out next episode. But yeah, tune in on February 15 when Andy, Jake and I take on Garry Marshall's holiday trilogy. But until then, I'm Logan, so.
[00:43:19] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr.
[00:43:21] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening.
[00:43:22] Speaker B: Bye.
