Episode 122: The Rise of Ducournau

[00:00:20] Speaker A: All right, Logan, so which scene in this trilogy would be best accompanied by a fart track? [00:00:29] Speaker B: So many. Yeah, I would probably say actually, God, that is nothing in Alpha. Cuz I feel like that's just, that's. That movie gets too sad. It's too sad for a fart track. [00:00:43] Speaker A: Teton's Prime, I feel like it's rife with optimization. Maybe 80 yard. [00:00:48] Speaker B: Underrated choice I think is during the waxing scene in Raw where every time she pulls the wax. This is just a horrible fart order. [00:00:58] Speaker A: And you have one of those really loud long YouTube poop type farts over when she kicks her sister. [00:01:05] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it depends on the type of fart. Cause if we're getting that one, then definitely Teton. I feel like definitely the car jumping [00:01:14] Speaker A: up and down every time the wheels, your guts are coming out. That kind of fart. [00:01:19] Speaker B: It sounds like at a Paul McCartney concert when the explosions go off, the power, the pyrotechnic. [00:01:29] Speaker A: So many opportunities in this perfect, perfect [00:01:31] Speaker B: way to cap off and start this fucking episode. Hello everyone. Welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Soosh. [00:01:38] Speaker A: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:01:39] Speaker B: And on Odd Trilogies, we take a trio of films, whether tied by cast and crew, thematic and olenz or just numerical order, and we discuss the good, the bad and the weird surrounding them. And today it's a Rise of Episode. We've done this in a hot second [00:01:52] Speaker A: and we got a few of those this year. [00:01:54] Speaker B: We do, we do have a few of those this year. And we thought, you know, what better way to start off our first of many rise up of the year than to start with a director who in this year is the. Is the 10th anniversary of her first solo film perfect, as well as the first release of, or at least US release of her newest film. And because of that, we're going to be talking about the rise of Julia Ducorno, which is a French film director who is known for 2016's Raw, 2021, Teton and 2025's Alpha. Oh man. This is one that. I think this is definitely my choice when I brought this up because I just thought it'd be fun to have something completely off the cuff that yeah, we didn't really have on the schedule initially because I think neither one of us knew when Ducournau is going to have another film. Because in case you don't know who she is, Julie Ducournau is a French director. She was born, I believe, November 18, 1983. She basically got her start in the early 2010s 2011, she had a short called Junior, which was about. [00:03:07] Speaker A: Starring Arnold Schwarzenegger. [00:03:08] Speaker B: Yes, of course. Which we have covered that film. No, but it starred Garance Merillier. Here's a. Just a real disclaimer here. [00:03:18] Speaker A: Anytime we do a lot of American attempts at French pronunciation. [00:03:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Because as much as the rise of series, we love to talk about definitely independent filmmakers or maybe lesser known or even international filmmakers. You probably didn't know what their first three films were. It does lead to us butchering names when we are trying our absolute best. So for if Garance is listening out there and I've been saying it wrong the whole time, just, just, just so you know, you're phenomenal in all these two movies you're in. But in. But yes, she starts with a short which is about, I believe, very raw esque, which is about like a teenage girl going through a change physically and it's manifested as like a snake skin. [00:04:02] Speaker A: Yeah, like shedding or something. Yeah, yeah. [00:04:04] Speaker B: And then in 2012, she, Dorkanar had a co director spot on a television film called Mange. Or if you speak it in American Freedom Points, that is Mange is how it's spelled. Which is about a lawyer who has to deal with bulimia and takes to get revenge on bullies that affected her when she was growing up. Already a strong start to what you'll end up doing with her solo stuff. But yeah, she has since 2016, has been kind of one of those independent directors and international directors that have made quite a big kind of big waves through kind of the space. She actually has some TV credits on there as well, a bunch of Apple TV shows that she has attached to. But her big kind of award thing is surrounding her second film. So we'll get to that when we get to it. But yeah, this is a director that both Andy and I did not see the first film together. The most recent film that is coming out as, as of our recording. It should be out this weekend. Yeah, we both got screeners for it last year during our awards season for the ifj. And unfortunately it had to be one [00:05:22] Speaker A: of those films that we didn't get to. [00:05:24] Speaker B: Couldn't get to at the time. And. But the middle film, Teton, we did see together. [00:05:30] Speaker A: Right. And at a screening, I think. No, no, we just went to see [00:05:34] Speaker B: it because we both looked at each other and went, how long is this gonna even be in theaters? There's no way the woman who made Raw is gonna have a film that lasts like two Weeks in Indiana. [00:05:46] Speaker A: Right. [00:05:47] Speaker B: So we saw that in theaters, and we saw that in theaters. I remember it vividly with one other guy at like, an 8pm screening. [00:05:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that's why I thought it was a screening. Yeah. [00:05:58] Speaker B: Because. Because the one guy was so quiet, I don't think he reacted at all to that film. Which is fascinating, because that film, if there's any reaction to have to that film, it shouldn't be none. Yeah, yeah. [00:06:14] Speaker A: Good, Bad. Just don't let it be nothing. [00:06:16] Speaker B: Yes. But Duke, or his first solo film, is a very notorious film. When it came out because it was one of those films that hit the festival market in, like, 2016. That was one of those films where, you know, every year it seems, or at least every other year, there's a film that comes through the festival circuit that is, like, you know, maybe there's something very controversial attached to it. Maybe they had a standing ovation that was a little too long, which I think is most films. [00:06:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:45] Speaker B: But for this film, this film was considered so grotesque, so graphic, there was conversations about people almost throwing up in the theater, people walking out of the theater for this film. And so when they finally got a bit of a limited release or was finally on streaming, I don't know about you, but I had to give it a watch. It was a morbid curiosity. [00:07:08] Speaker A: I don't remember when I first saw this film, but I don't think it was all that long before Teton. [00:07:13] Speaker B: No, I think I saw. I think I at least saw Raw maybe a year or so after it come out. [00:07:18] Speaker A: Yeah, it was. I think for me, it was probably more like within a year of before Teton came out. [00:07:24] Speaker B: It really shows how much we trust each other because there are plenty of friends in our friend group that I think we could have definitely seen Teton with or even watch Raw together. But we. We nicely left them out. We figured no one would be interested. And also, we had no idea what the fuck we were getting into. And honestly, with all three of these films, that is a plus in terms of, like, going into all three of these movies. I could give you the plot synopsis of each three of all three of them, and you'd still be surprised by the twists and turns and, like, kind of the progression of the narrative with each one. And for their. Her first film, Ra follows a vegetarian veterinarian who goes to a veterinarian school. It's like her first year in college. [00:08:11] Speaker A: Right. [00:08:12] Speaker B: And discovers while she's there, while everyone is partying, doing drugs, having sex, doing a bunch of hazy Rituals since they're all new freshmen at this college. She discovers that she has a unhealthy obsession with human flesh, discovers that she actually may be a cannibal. And that's the premise of the film. It's a tight 90 about a poor college girl learning that she may be a cannibal. And what to do about that. Yeah. [00:08:45] Speaker A: And it's a coming of age story. It's a finding yourself story. [00:08:49] Speaker B: It really is like hilariously enough, despite all three of these films, just like ebbs and flows in terms of what the fuck that idea of coming of age is in terms of the plots of those movies. It does pertain to each one of these movies. It is very much a film about trying to find almost in a way, find your freak. [00:09:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Ducourneau seems very interested as a storyteller in like. [00:09:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:18] Speaker A: Merging films about self discovery and identity and sexuality. Yes, sexuality. And merging that with the body horror sub genre and kind of. Which is not, you know, people have done that before. It's not like a brand new thing. But that seems to be kind of her special interest as a storyteller, honestly. Yeah, it is. All three of these films kind of share that. [00:09:45] Speaker B: Yeah. She has spent the last decade making three films that are female led body horror films. [00:09:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:52] Speaker B: That are all three. Well, I think there's a lot of. A lot of Raw in Teton. All three of these films, I think overall are very much their own thing and just unique enough that you don't have to watch all three of these films to be like, oh, I want to see the progression. It's nice to do so and I would recommend it because I like all three of these movies. But I will say, even knowing when we both saw Raw years before Titan came out, that nothing could have prepared me for Titan, which we will get to. But yeah, Raw is this kind of this fascinating situation, especially because this is the first time I'm watching it since release. So I've only seen the film twice. But it was kind of phenomenal watching how the film is 90 minutes. Each 30 minute chunk actually has a very specific, almost like beginning, middle and end, with each 30 minute chunk having kind of like a revelation moment and then going into the next chunk and then more revelations happen, more interesting stuff. And then like the ending of Raw, which is fucking batshit and I would say is probably the one thing that sticks in my mind the most of this movie and a great way to end this film in like a kind of hopeless but fascinating kind of way. [00:11:08] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:10] Speaker B: Because ultimately the first 30 or so minutes of the film, it is basically hazing rituals. Coming of age, like Andy said, finding yourself, learning your own voice. We discover that this veterinary school that she is going to is not only her parents are not only alumni there, but her sister, who's about a year or two older than her. Alexia. [00:11:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:31] Speaker B: Is also going there. [00:11:33] Speaker A: Right. [00:11:33] Speaker B: And so when she gets there, of course, her sister's like, oh, thank God, someone who's not fucking. You're finally here. So I can basically corrupt you in classic older sibling fashion. And then by the end of the first third of the film, we get, I believe, a scene where basically, in the beginning, there is a moment where part of the hazing ritual is that Justine, our protagonist, has to eat meat. [00:12:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:05] Speaker B: Basically either rabbit or rabbit organ or this, like, different. Just organs of dead animals. And she's a vegetarian, of course, but her sister forces her to eat that organ. And then she gets the first stint of body horror with this disgusting rash that is like, if it's food poisoning, it's the kind of food poisoning I've never seen. Like a horrible rash that is on her ass. It's on her stomach. It's, like on her neck. It's everywhere. And this is like a day after she ate it. So while her roommate Adrian is basically out the gate banging dudes, going out to parties. I think her second night in that place, she walks in on him getting a blowjob. And then she shuts the door. [00:12:53] Speaker A: He's a worldly man. [00:12:54] Speaker B: He really just out of the gate. Just went right into it. The real speedrunning, the college lifestyle. And while she's just, like, absolutely miserable. And so for a while, she just kind of assumes it has to be something with meat, but in the process of eating that, there was a weird fascination with how it tasted. Clearly. So she starts to play around. [00:13:16] Speaker A: She'll, like, go out in secret and eat a burger or something, because they eat. [00:13:21] Speaker B: She tries to steal a burger patty. [00:13:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:23] Speaker B: And just is embarrassed to admit that she wants to try that because, like, she's the vegetarian. And, like, her friends. Well, she, again, doesn't have any friends. Really. [00:13:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:31] Speaker B: Because she's just really. She's, like, the smartest. Clearly, going to be, like, head of the class. [00:13:36] Speaker A: Sure. [00:13:36] Speaker B: And is not interested in any of these hazing rituals or any of these parties, but goes because she is obligated to. And so all of her friends or all of her colleagues and, you know, are just like, who the is this guy? She's just like. She's the one that looks at everyone and says, like, yeah, human rights are equal to human rights. Because they asked the question of. So if a. If an animal gets raped, it's equal to a woman getting raped. And she's like, yeah, rights. Like, human rights and that, like. [00:14:06] Speaker A: And everybody's, like, appalled. [00:14:08] Speaker B: Oh, my God, how dare you say that about animals? But it is. While this is all happening, she slowly starts to kind of get a little taste of meat here. They go out to get shawarma at, like, a gas station, which has, like, a very awkward scene with the trucker there. And, like, while all this is kind of happening, you know, we're getting interested more to, like, her roommate Adrian, as they kind of become closer, because it seemed like it's the closest thing that she asked to a friend there. Her sister is kind of very, like, noticeably distant, but I think in a way that is, like, you're not cool. Kind of like, you're a square and, you know, I don't want you to kind of bum my vibe. [00:14:43] Speaker A: Right. Her sister's got her own things going on. [00:14:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Her sister's also an. Which is, like, understandably so, because when you get introduced to Justine in the beginning, you get introduced to her parents, and her parents are, I would say, uptight is a understatement. Yeah, they very much so are just. Her mom does kind of verge on Karen energy almost immediately. Her dad just kind of seems like the. Listen to your mother kind of energy as well. And then so is when you see her older, when you see Alexia, it's just like a breath of fresh air. And also, like, I get why you're just throwing caution at the wind. [00:15:18] Speaker A: Yeah. The rebellion is self evident. [00:15:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. We should also talk about that. The film opens with a random person watching a road. [00:15:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:15:28] Speaker B: And then a car comes up to that person. That person jumps into the road, the car hits a tree, and that's how it opens. [00:15:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:35] Speaker B: Which we find out later is Alexia, because about two thirds into the movie, we have a scene where Alexia basically tells Justine that she needs to wax. Yeah. You can't. You shouldn't have a hairy crotch. So there's a sequence where there she is doing a home waxing of her vagina. [00:15:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:15:58] Speaker B: And as the process is going on, at one point the wax gets stuck. She can't get it off. And so she tries to get a pair of scissors to cut off the wax. And Justine is so pissed off that she kicks her sister so hard in the hands, clearly, that she accidentally cuts off, I believe, her ring Finger on one of her hands. [00:16:20] Speaker A: Yeah. She somehow. Yeah. Clamp. Basically kicks her and clamps the scissors shut on her finger. [00:16:25] Speaker B: And then it's just like a clean. A clean cut of her finger. Alexia passes out. Justine calls 911. And before 911 can get there, Justine looks at the finger and with pure curiosity, just nibbles the shit out of. Just nibbles the shit out of her sister's finger. Like it's the best meal she's ever had. [00:16:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:46] Speaker B: And then her sister wakes up, sees it. And so initially, you know, the film again, the first time seeing it, there is this energy of just, like, you don't want this poor girl. You don't feel. You're not. Like, someone needs to put her down. You just genuinely want to be like, okay, she needs help. How is she gonna tell someone she needs help? And then things start to get worse when she starts to eat raw chicken out of a fridge. [00:17:10] Speaker A: Yeah. She's doing that. [00:17:12] Speaker B: She starts to, like, look at a dead dog or look at something and then just kind of, like, almost have a moment of, like, sniffing it. [00:17:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:19] Speaker B: And then when her sister loses her finger and then she starts nibbling on it. If only that could be worse by itself. Alexia wakes up after passing out and sees Justine eating her fucking finger. [00:17:31] Speaker A: Right. [00:17:32] Speaker B: And then they blame it on the dog. [00:17:35] Speaker A: Yep. [00:17:36] Speaker B: And they basically go, I will put that dog down. And then Justine now has, like, internal guilt because it's like. Because, like, her dad at one point says, like, yeah, a beast that has tasted human flesh should be put down. And so, like, Justine immediately is like, okay, now, I don't know how long I have left, I guess, at this point, because if my dad is saying that and my sister knows, and then her sister basically ghosts her for a bit. It makes her freak out. And then at one point, her sister pulls her aside, and then, like, was following her around. And then they go to that road at the beginning of the film and then reveals that Alexia's not necessarily mad that she ate her finger, per se. I mean, partly so, because, like, you know, there's nothing to sew back on. [00:18:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:22] Speaker B: But she gets the craving because Alexia twists, also craves flesh. And the way that she gets it is that she feigns getting in front of a car on the road. Someone gets into a car wreck, and then she just eats the bodies in the car. [00:18:39] Speaker A: Insane. [00:18:40] Speaker B: And I will say, this movie, like, hearing all this. There's probably. Especially since I started talking about how this film was known for being disgusting and Very graphic. This movie, I don't think really hits the levels of kind of controversy or notorious nature that it did when it was in festivals. [00:18:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:57] Speaker B: But it is graphic, the little that we get throughout the film. The effects are top notch to the point, and the sound design is top notch to the degree. Because to me, like, you mean there are body parts being eaten in the movie and you see it, there are, like, literally dead cadavers all over the place. Dead animals all over the place. Because they're a veterinary school. And really, the thing that sticks in my head the most is the sound of Justine's teeth when she clearly hits a bone. [00:19:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:30] Speaker B: When she nibbles on her sister's finger, genuinely, that's the only thing that really fucking makes me shiver. [00:19:36] Speaker A: That was. Yeah, that definitely. [00:19:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:19:38] Speaker A: When I was watching that. Yeah. Little cold chill there. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Runner up goes to Alexia, biting her sister's face later in the film. Yeah, that's also gnarly. But, yeah. Alexia basically reveals, hey, I also crave that shit too, man. This is the best way to get fresh meat. And just seems like this. Like, this is fucking insane. I'm not gonna be doing this every time I want meat. I'm gonna stain. Abstain from eating meat. And then she does, and she gets. She gets basically withdrawn. [00:20:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:11] Speaker B: And then leads to an awkward sex scene with her gay roommate. [00:20:16] Speaker A: Yeah. She and her gay roommate get to get to experimenting with each other. [00:20:20] Speaker B: There's just an energy between the two of them where they don't. Clearly a naivete, but, like a genuine energy where they don't know how to respond to it, so they just kind of assume it's sexual chemistry. And so they just fuck. [00:20:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:33] Speaker B: And in the process of them fucking, Justine just keeps trying to bite him. And then it gets so bad when he climaxes and she. Like, I think they climax at the same time. She has to bite her arm to help the climax. [00:20:51] Speaker A: Till it bleeds. Right? [00:20:53] Speaker B: Yeah. She goes hard. Yeah. She punctures her arm. And then Adrian is just like. Which is the funny thing. The funny thing about Justine, again, shows how Greg Grantz is in the movie. She does a good job of using kind of the classic coming of age nature. And the fact that Justine is learning more about herself through this crazy process is that there is a bit more of a confidence, a bit more of a dominance, a bit more kind of adherence to the things that she's told. She has to do this, she has to do that. And she's like, fuck that. I'm not gonna do that. She's definitely more angsty towards her parents and other people. And I will have to say, genuinely, I think the funniest part of this movie is after their sex scene because she goes like, so what, you deflower a girl and you're not gonna text her back? And Adrian's like, what the fuck are you talking about? You, like. [00:21:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:49] Speaker B: You, like, climaxed while biting yourself. I don't know how. And also, I'm gay, and I don't know how to process what happened. Like, maybe. And then, like, her sister is also texting Adrian, which is, like, I'm also a big kind of pointing contention because, like, Justine clearly believes that Adrian and, like, Alex, like, Alexi are talking because, like, Alexia probably. Probably wants to kill him and eat him. [00:22:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:15] Speaker B: He probably has an attraction to him, but also a fascination. [00:22:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:19] Speaker B: And so, like, Justine's very protective of her friend and roommate and then fucks him and then has that kind of energy of, like, you're my first time kind of thing. [00:22:27] Speaker A: Right. [00:22:28] Speaker B: And then there's just this whole kind of dynamic, a random love triangle that I don't think is a bad thing, but it is kind of fascinating. [00:22:37] Speaker A: Yeah. How it kind of. It feels like it comes out of nowhere a little bit. [00:22:40] Speaker B: It does. But I also think it makes sense because it is kind of like this thing where it's like. At least in Justine's case, it's like. It's the. The craving for the flesh, I think, is getting constantly mixed up with, like, her. Her, like her hormones. [00:22:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:55] Speaker B: Kind of like this. The newfound confidence. [00:22:57] Speaker A: Well, and I think that, like, sort of love triangle dynamic reinforces this idea that, like, oh, Justine is, like, kind of just like Alexia in a lot of ways. Like, why do they have all these things in common? You know, why are they pursuing the same tastes? [00:23:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:13] Speaker A: Sexually and in their palette. [00:23:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. [00:23:18] Speaker A: It is. [00:23:18] Speaker B: It is this thing where, you know, it is this. And you have these constant questions of how long Alexia, like, is Alexia very similar to Justine, where she just found [00:23:27] Speaker A: out about, like, a year or two [00:23:29] Speaker B: ago, and then is now just doing these extraordinarily extreme things to just satisfy the need. And then it all kind of. It comes to a culmination when, for some reason, again, Alexia is a fucking asshole. [00:23:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:23:44] Speaker B: But there's a moment where both Justine and Alexia are at a party and they get drunk, and then a video goes around when they were both drunk, where Alexia is basically using a cadaver to, like, tease Justine, and Justine's acting [00:24:01] Speaker A: like a dog, just, like, trying to bite It. [00:24:04] Speaker B: And it's like this most fascinating thing, [00:24:06] Speaker A: like dangling a toy in front of a dog and the dog's trying to snap at it. [00:24:10] Speaker B: And it's one of those things where it's hard not to watch the video and be like, because at one point when that video gets, like, circulated, Justine's unaware of it, but people start to look at it really funny. And, like, she sits by this one woman we've never seen before in this whole movie, but this woman gives her the nastiest look and, like, goes over two seats and then they show her this video. And I'm like, to be honest, if. Especially if you're in college, if you see something like this, it's not going to be like, does that girl want to, like, bite, like, eat that guy? To me, it's like, how plastered is this woman? To the point where she is, like, absolutely feral and, like, primal. [00:24:46] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. I guess maybe we've seen too many, like, drunk people doing things either in person or on the Internet, to where it's like, yeah, this isn't that insane. I mean, it's weird behavior. [00:25:00] Speaker B: It is weird behavior. [00:25:01] Speaker A: Doesn't immediately make me think that they're a psychopath. [00:25:03] Speaker B: But in classic college fashion, where they clearly are drinking too much and there's just an overabundance of alcohol and drugs. [00:25:09] Speaker A: Also, it's a vet school. If somebody starts acting like an animal when they're drunk, I don't think anybody would be that surprised. [00:25:17] Speaker B: She could have been nain and pertaining to be a horse, and I'd be like, that's fucking weird. But also, I don't know how many drinks she had. She a lightweight. I guess this is what happens when she's drunk. [00:25:27] Speaker A: Well, every school has a cat girl. And I guess maybe she was just [00:25:31] Speaker B: the dog girl after dog girl or the horse girl. She has a dream about a horse at one point. Yeah, the muscles and like a horse running. We see a fucking scene where they sedate a horse and it's like, really wild. [00:25:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Just the way it collapses. [00:25:46] Speaker B: I don't know how much this is. Apparently they shot the film in Belgium, so this is not shot France, because I think fraudsters. I think Ducournau wanted like a very American looking school or something you wouldn't see in France. [00:25:58] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:25:59] Speaker B: And honestly, that school, when I look at it, it doesn't. For some reason, my brain doesn't go like, oh, this is outside of Paris or something like that. It does feel weirdly disconnected from, you know, the French you know, the French director and like the kind of the French nature of the film. Because it's a French film. [00:26:16] Speaker A: I mean, I don't even French cast. There's not even any baguettes in the movie. So. Yeah, you know, you'd be forgiven if you didn't realize it was. [00:26:23] Speaker B: Yeah. No one says Soccer Blue at any point. Like, that's crazy. [00:26:27] Speaker A: Where was the Eiffel Tower? [00:26:28] Speaker B: No one says Piton. Like, no one says all these crazy things. No, but it just, it just was, you know. [00:26:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:35] Speaker B: For a first film, like, genuinely, like one of the things that, like I have found as we've gone through the podcast, but also in general watching movies, like, if your first film is genuinely just like this fascinating or like, have its own kind of like, like this style and like, kind of voice that you're like, where the fuck is this coming from? You pretty much have sold me, unless you really, really burn me later on in your career. Because, like, this is just like Raw. Just had this fascination when I was watching it initially and I think this time too, where it's just like, it's just. Because I thought all three of these movies when we were going into it, I was like, I just signed this up for like a six hour trilogy, but it's like an hour 30 for RAW, an hour 10, an hour 15, I think for Titane or Titan. [00:27:25] Speaker A: Is it really that short? [00:27:26] Speaker B: Yeah, like Titan is like an hour 47. [00:27:28] Speaker A: I think you said an hour 10, hour 15. I was like, what? [00:27:32] Speaker B: Oh, my bad, my bad. Yeah, you're right, you're right. [00:27:35] Speaker A: Hour 45. Ish. Yes. And then the last one is. Yeah, just shy of an hour. Just shy of two hours. [00:27:41] Speaker B: I meant to say it was 15 minutes longer than Raw. [00:27:43] Speaker A: Okay. [00:27:44] Speaker B: My brain now, I think when I messed up Teton, it threw me off. [00:27:48] Speaker A: Teton on the brain. Yeah. [00:27:50] Speaker B: In case you didn't listen to our last episode, I got self conscious on how to say Teton. And then Andy just thought it was very funny, which it was. And so I spent the last week or so just like every now and [00:28:00] Speaker A: again muttering it to yourself. [00:28:01] Speaker B: And again, it wasn't muttering, it was full. It's full chest Teton. That's how I'm gonna remember it. [00:28:08] Speaker A: The Grand Tetons. [00:28:09] Speaker B: Yeah, Grand Teton and then Alpha. Yeah, it's just over two hours, but I thought all of them were gonna be over. And then Ra just being as short as it is. It is like, yeah, first 30 minutes she has her first piece of flesh voluntarily. [00:28:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:25] Speaker B: Next 30 minutes she's nibbling on that finger and kind of thing, like processing all this. And then the last 30 minutes is where shit goes downhill. [00:28:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:34] Speaker B: Where the video comes out. Justine is understandably pissed at her sister. [00:28:39] Speaker A: Yeah, her sister. [00:28:41] Speaker B: They fight in the courtyard and her sister bites a chunk out of her cheek. A solid chunk, I mind you, like, it's got a scar. There's no way that doesn't scar. [00:28:51] Speaker A: It's never grown back fully. [00:28:53] Speaker B: And they end the fight with both of them biting each other's arms to hold each other back. And then they make up. Justine's worried that Alexia has gone full tilt cannibal. So she locks her room. She, like, passes out, wakes up next to Adrian, because it's kind of built in a way where like, Adrian's room is like the living room of this dorm room. And then Justine has the actual bedroom. She wakes up next to Adrian and Adrian looks fine until you realize, oh, my gosh, he's dead. His whole fucking thigh is gone. It's all bone. And you also see that there's a ski, A ski pole. Like Alexia used a ski pole to stab him in the back, right? [00:29:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:43] Speaker B: And then was spin nibbling on his leg. And then Justine does what any good sister does, you know, gets the Adrian bits out of her mouth, puts her through a shower, and then I guess doesn't bring up at all the cannibal aspect of it, but at least calls the cops and Alexia gets arrested. [00:30:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:30:03] Speaker B: Justine, I think, figures out mostly what she, you know, how to curb her cravings. Or at least she feels like she's kind of in a spot where like, maybe I can get a handle on this. And then the film ends with, honestly is like, I would say the most iconic shot of the entire movie because for the majority of the film, it is shot very well. The film score is very well done. The guy who does the score for this film does the score for all three of these films. I would probably say Raw is like. It seems like it's most bombastic, but I have no doubt Titan's even more bombastic because there's certain tracks in Teton [00:30:39] Speaker A: Titan uses a lot more like pop music. [00:30:42] Speaker B: Yeah. The needle drops get more and more as we go on with one wild needle drop in Alpha I was never expected to hear. But for the most part, the film very much feels like it's handheld. Very much Steadicam shooting a lot. Not a lot of locked off shots until we get to like, I don't know, her nibbling on her sister's finger. Or like, if people are sitting, clearly. But, like, there is. This last final shot is framed in a way where clearly something is going to happen. It is literally just a shot. Or it's a shot. Reverse shot of Justine's dad and her at the dinner table. And her dad is just smoking a cigarette because French and basically chewing on a baguette. No, he's not doing that. Justine's mom has left the room because clearly she's distraught about Alexia being in prison for killing a guy. Any mother should be. And then basically, her father, without saying it, goes, listen, you know, your mother can be difficult at times. And, you know, Alexei was also kind of the similar difficult. I'm very certain you're also kind of difficult in that same way. And then he starts to unbutton his shirt, pulls it open, and there are just. There are slices of, like, meat off of him. [00:32:00] Speaker A: There are bite marks, chunks missing. Basically just all these scars. [00:32:04] Speaker B: Yeah. Basically says, hopefully you'll find someone, too, who understands that difficulty in a way. [00:32:10] Speaker A: Yeah. Suggesting that both of her parents found each other or were able to accommodate one another's special interest. [00:32:21] Speaker B: It almost kind of implies that the women in her family are just cannibals. [00:32:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And he's like, well, okay, I guess I can deal with it. [00:32:28] Speaker B: I guess the movie ends with, find you a man like Justin. He's willing to just have a chunk bitten out of him from time to time. And then Justine's horrified. Then cut to title. Yeah, that's the end of the movie. It is a fascinating. I think it's still. I find, still be great, even on a second watch. [00:32:47] Speaker A: Yeah. I enjoy that movie a lot. [00:32:49] Speaker B: I think it really captures. It comes out swinging when you start to realize what it's trying to do. It doesn't overstay its welcome with its gory graphic nature. I think when it is graphic, it's almost when it's lulled you into a safety. [00:33:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And then it's like, it doesn't, like, hang around with a bunch of gratuitous stuff. It's more like uses it for impact and then moves on. [00:33:10] Speaker B: And honestly, too, a great example of something that. I don't know if we've talked much about it, because, again, it kind of hasn't been in the discussion as much between us. And also, we are two men. But I think the female gaze definitely has a lot to do with how the film feels very much just liberating and open to discuss, you know, Justine becoming more of a woman. At the same time, she's Realizing what she craves in an unnatural way. [00:33:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:37] Speaker B: The waxing scene is honestly not as kind of. I thought it was gonna be like. I don't. Is this really good? I don't know if I. And then I watched it, I was like, no, she just. She shoots it very tastefully, very much. Just kind of like. Ducournau is clearly just like, very respectful of her actresses and her. And her cast and crew, and I think gets away with, you know, with all three of her films. When you're having discussions of topics that are like, oh, my gosh, this person is. Andy just sneezed. He tried to mute it and hide it. You're not gonna hide it well, but [00:34:11] Speaker A: I can lessen it. [00:34:14] Speaker B: No, I think, like, she shows very much that she has a. Hilariously, considering that she's known for being in. Getting very intense with body horror at times in her three films. She's a very soft touch and I think a very, very specific, confident vision for what she wants. Something to kind of be in the execution. And it shows very much in this first film, which is very striking initially. [00:34:39] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's a pretty impressive needle to thread on a first solo feature, you know, to kind of find that balance of the humanity and the perverse, provocative side of it. [00:34:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:56] Speaker A: Which is. Yeah. Is a common thread in kind of all three of these, particularly the first two. That. That seems to be her happy place as a storyteller is in that, like, ooh, what'll. What'll make the audience uncomfortable, but also show them a little side of something they can relate to. [00:35:14] Speaker B: Absolutely. And to start off with that, it's like, well, where the fuck do you go from there? Well, five years later, you know, we're still in Covid time, of course, out of quarantine and whatnot. But at this time, the world is trying to get back to a bit of sense of normalcy. In 2021, Ducournau releases and reveals her next film, Teton, which is probably our most prestigious film out of the three of these as of right now. Because it won the Palme d'. Or. Yeah, I can. And apparently so. I don't. Don't fully have. I. To be honest, before we started recording, I kind of was just, like, trying to remember certain aspects of Du Cornaus history at this point in terms of the three films, kind of to fill in the gaps. And so if this isn't so, I'm kind of kind of giving this. It's either one or the other. Ducournau winning the Palme d' or is either the first time a woman has won since 1993, Jane Campion's the Piano, or she is one of two women to win the Palme d' or with the other person being Jane camping from the Piano. [00:36:21] Speaker A: Okay. [00:36:22] Speaker B: Which is, regardless, insane. [00:36:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:25] Speaker B: That it has been nearly 20 years after the last woman is on the pawn door. And to be honest, it's understandable in terms of just, like, why she got it for this film. Because she's. Holy fuck. This movie is an experience. I would very much say, even though we kind of went through. I went through Beat for Beat through Raw, without really giving this, you know, kind of disclaimer, we are going to be talking about all three of these movies in full, as per usual. But I will say, if for some reason you haven't watched Titan yet, of the three of these movies while you're listening to this episode, stop the episode, go watch Titan and come back. Because the thing about Titan is, I think one of the reasons why I wanted to do this trilogy as well is because this is a movie that I really haven't fully forgotten since we saw it in theaters. There's kind of been a piece of it in the back of my brain to the point where I'd be like, is this as crazy as I remember it when we saw it in theaters? Because the fact about this movie is that Raw is easily describable. You know, I just did in the beginning. And I would argue that Alpha is also, when we get to it, very easy to describe with it kind of having this kind of a nice little. It kind of almost has a bait and switch about halfway through both. [00:37:36] Speaker A: Pretty high concept in that. Like. [00:37:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:39] Speaker A: You could give somebody the gist of it in a sentence. [00:37:42] Speaker B: Yes. [00:37:42] Speaker A: And that's harder to do with Teton. [00:37:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Teton starts strong with a car crash, leaving a little girl to have a titanium plate in her head. [00:37:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:55] Speaker B: It implies, early on, implies in that scene as well, that said little girl who was in the car accident has a affinity for cars, even compared to, like, her family, her mother and father. Seems like she prefers the family car more than she does her own parents. [00:38:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, she comes out of her procedure when she gets the metal plate in her head as a child, she comes out of the hospital, walks right past her parents and hugs the car, pets [00:38:22] Speaker B: it like it's a horse or something. [00:38:24] Speaker A: This being the same car, presumably, that she smashed her head in. [00:38:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Which they do a phenomenal job because you don't actually see a little girl just like get smacked into a windshield. But you do see just like the blood splatter on the window when it actually stops moving. [00:38:42] Speaker A: Yeah, it was great. [00:38:43] Speaker B: She also was just like. The movie opens with the internals of the car and you hear her basically just mimicking driving the car and it pisses off her dad and then, yeah, gets a titanium plate and then cut to her as an adult. Assuming, like in her 20s. We don't really get a discernible time frame, but she is now a very, very scantily clad car model who does a lot of erotic dances on top of said cars for money. [00:39:19] Speaker A: Like car shows at car shows. [00:39:23] Speaker B: And at that point you're like, oh, she just really likes cars and there's nothing more. I should really elaborate on that as well at the time that, like, when the movie gets to that point, you. We get introduced to a different Justine, but played by the same actress from Rock, who is a new car model who kind of has kind of a liking to Alexia. A different Alexi. [00:39:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:48] Speaker B: These first two films have borrow a lot of names. Yeah. Justine, Alexia and Adrian. [00:39:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:54] Speaker B: Geez. I just found that out yesterday when I was looking through because I was just like. Because, like Alpha. I was like, wait, why aren't these names hitting the same way? Oh, it's because they literally just take the names of the first film and do it ever. But Alexia has this very uncomfortable, horrifying scene where a fan of hers really wants an autograph and stalks her to her car. [00:40:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:40:18] Speaker B: And also wants a kiss. And this is already very uncomfortable. Incredibly well done. I hate every second of it. Please make it stop. And then Alexia kills him with her hairpin with like. With like a chopstick that she. [00:40:33] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like her metal hairpin chopstick. [00:40:35] Speaker B: Yeah. And then she stabs him in the ear and he froths at the mouth. And then it is implied that at least five or six other people maybe have died the same way. So it's implying that Alexia is a serial killer. [00:40:49] Speaker A: Serial killer. [00:40:50] Speaker B: She's a serial killer who is a sexy car model who does dances on top of cars and occasionally kills people, men and women. She's an equal opportunity serial killer. And so already at this point, this is like 15 minutes in and you're like, this is already too much information. I don't know if I need any more than this. Maybe they could just take a moment to relax. Yeah. [00:41:13] Speaker A: A moment to relax in the shower, wash off the murder. [00:41:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So she. [00:41:18] Speaker A: And nothing else happens. [00:41:19] Speaker B: She washes off the murder and this Scene was probably one of the funniest scenes we experienced together because I could feel the energy between the two of us and the silent man, two seats in front of us, two rows in front of us, were we all three couldn't collectively process what the fuck was going on. Because after she washes off the blood from the murder she just committed in the parking lot outside of her job, she starts to hear a car honk and rev in. In the garage, the car space in the garage. And it's her car that she was dancing on. And she gets in the car and then what follows is a long car sex scene. [00:42:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Now she fucks the car or gets fucked by the car. Yeah. [00:42:05] Speaker B: Rather she's a. She fucks cars. It's. It's as simple as that. [00:42:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:11] Speaker B: And you're probably wondering, well, considering the CEO director is known for body horror and is known for making very graphic, maybe disgusting films to certain people. Do they show like. Do you see a car insert her? No, you don't see. [00:42:25] Speaker A: You don't see any of the gritty details of that. [00:42:27] Speaker B: You don't really see a belt go in. You don't see anything go into it. To be like, oh, this is the car's penis. [00:42:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:33] Speaker B: That's not the thing. It's. It is the fact that she gets [00:42:35] Speaker A: in a car, ties herself up with the seat belts. [00:42:39] Speaker B: Yeah. She gets in the car in one. In a. In an uncut shot for a while. And the car just starts rocking back and forth and then it starts jumping down. [00:42:48] Speaker A: Hydraulic jump. Yeah. [00:42:49] Speaker B: And then it hard cuts to her almost like bondage style. Tied to the car seat. [00:42:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:54] Speaker B: Moaning incessantly. [00:42:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:57] Speaker B: And then you're like, oh. Oh, gosh. This makes the most sense. She's a serial killer car model dancer who also is a car fucker. Yeah, you are. This is 20 minutes in. This is like 20 minutes in the movie. [00:43:13] Speaker A: Right. [00:43:14] Speaker B: And then in the process of doing all this, she starts to get a liking or you believe she has a liking of Justine. So she goes over to her place and they start making out outside of her place. And Justine has pierced nipples. And very, very similar to the scene in Raw when Justine has to bite herself to climax. Alexia has no interest in like going [00:43:42] Speaker A: down on Justine or just really wants that piercing. [00:43:45] Speaker B: She really just wants the metal piercing in her mouth. She just wants to lick it and she wants it to bad. [00:43:51] Speaker A: That's another scene with great sound design where she keeps clicking the. The piercing between her teeth. [00:43:57] Speaker B: Yeah, the teeth. Gosh. Sound design. Why are you so good at your job. Maybe tone it down a little. Damn, dude. [00:44:04] Speaker A: Phone it in once in a while. [00:44:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And so Justine goes Ow, stop it. Cuz she's normal. And then ultimately Alexi doesn't feel great during the sex scene. That is just all nipple play. And then she feels like she's, you know, morning after sickness. And then she takes a pregnancy test and finds out that the car impregnated her. [00:44:28] Speaker A: Yeah. And she's got like motor oil dripping from her vagina. [00:44:31] Speaker B: Oh yeah. Because she also tries to abort it immediately. Yes. With. [00:44:35] Speaker A: With the metal murder hairpin which gonna say now. [00:44:40] Speaker B: Because it might get lost in the sauce. In terms of what we are about to discuss with this character, the actress that plays Alexia does genuinely phenomenal job. She plays this very robotic, very cold. [00:44:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:56] Speaker B: Very clearly like someone who doesn't they feel like they're more metallic and more like a machine than they are a human. [00:45:04] Speaker A: Yeah. Definitely. Very socially stunted. [00:45:07] Speaker B: Yes. [00:45:07] Speaker A: Not entirely sure how to deal with [00:45:09] Speaker B: other people and just assumes that if any other like it very much has the energy of if anyone gives her attention, she just kind of assumes it's bad attention or they're not her parents because her parents couldn't give half a. What she does. [00:45:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:25] Speaker B: And so she just automatically goes, well, I guess I should kill them. [00:45:29] Speaker A: Right. [00:45:29] Speaker B: And so there's this long comical sequence where she kills Justine. She kills a guy that lives with Justine. [00:45:36] Speaker A: Kills everybody in Justine's house. [00:45:38] Speaker B: Yeah. And then the girl, the girl that was with the guy runs up the stairs and locks herself in the bathroom. And then when she's upstairs stairs, this giant like this very tall black man comes out fully naked. [00:45:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:45:49] Speaker B: And he's like what's going on? And her face of just how many people are. [00:45:56] Speaker A: Because it's this exhausting scene. She's not just like, you know, slickly hit Manning these people like running up behind them and stick slitting their throats. It's like every kill is a struggle. Everybody fights back, back. And everybody's like throwing at her and breaking over her head. [00:46:14] Speaker B: Which clearly shows that establishes that all the kills she's done have been just with one person. She's never had to deal with a [00:46:21] Speaker A: house full of people. [00:46:22] Speaker B: And she's now found the one time. Now she's found out she's pregnant with a car baby. [00:46:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:26] Speaker B: And she thought it'd be a simple easy kill this girl. And then. Nope, I got to kill everybody here. [00:46:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:31] Speaker B: And then she up the woman that was in the bathroom gets away from her so clearly now the cops are going to get her. And so she goes back to her parents, place, lights all of the clothes she was wearing on fire, and then just locks her parents in the house while the house gets put on fire. [00:46:49] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and then the. So, I mean, obviously the one girl got away. So now the police are looking for her and she needs a disguise. So she sees alongside, like her wanted poster. She basically sees an image for a missing person. [00:47:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:07] Speaker A: And they do the kind of like, this person went missing as a child. But here's our projected view of what they look like as an adult. [00:47:14] Speaker B: What we would call like an AI. Almost like an AI Esque. [00:47:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And she's kind of like, you know, well, I can pass as that. So she shaves her hair and smashes her nose on a bathroom sink. [00:47:27] Speaker B: I will have to say, of rewatching these two films, and even with the third film, the only scene I had to close my eyes during. [00:47:35] Speaker A: Oh, the nose is the nose. It's tough. [00:47:38] Speaker B: It's hard. It's like when she punches herself, it's kind of funny. [00:47:41] Speaker A: Sure. [00:47:42] Speaker B: Because it's like they. Again, sound designs, top notch. It is just meat slapping meat. [00:47:46] Speaker A: Well, and it's also. [00:47:48] Speaker B: She's not hitting herself hard. [00:47:49] Speaker A: Yeah. It's a fool's errand. It's like your body's not gonna let you punch yourself hard enough to do the damage you're trying to do here. [00:47:56] Speaker B: No. [00:47:56] Speaker A: So it's just. It's like a little kid slapping themselves. [00:48:00] Speaker B: And the shot. The shot set up for her smacking her face on the fucking sink is so good. And I really appreciated it right up until she bashes her head. [00:48:12] Speaker A: Well, the worst part about that shot for me is. Or the scene is that she wants to make sure she hits it square. So she presses her nose against the corner and kind of does a little practice tap. And for some reason, the practice tap for me was like, that I hate. [00:48:33] Speaker B: Cause like the tiny little. [00:48:36] Speaker A: Not even painful, but it's just like you're putting me in the moment and it's like, that's what I would have to do if I were gonna do this. I'd have to push my nose to the. [00:48:43] Speaker B: You're making me visualize it. [00:48:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And. Yeah. Then she does it and succeeds. [00:48:49] Speaker B: Do you think you're most iconic with the Vovich, how you passed down the theater? Cause it got too gory. [00:48:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:48:56] Speaker B: Do you think if you saw either Raw or T Diton in the theater in the same situation, you would have passed out of this? [00:49:02] Speaker A: Oh, I mean, yeah, Raw. I mean, Raw came out in, what, 2016. [00:49:07] Speaker B: So it would have been around the time the Witch. [00:49:09] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, the Raw. Raw. Probably under the exact same circumstances as my witch screening, I'd have been a goner at Raw. [00:49:16] Speaker B: Yeah. Once she got that nibble in. [00:49:19] Speaker A: Yeah. It would have just been that scene and I'd be done. I wouldn't have seen the rest of the movie. [00:49:23] Speaker B: Gosh. Honestly. [00:49:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:49:25] Speaker B: And with Titan, it's like, Jesus Christ. Because. Yeah. The motor oil coming out of her vagina because she has a car baby. Because in case you forgot, since we said it, she fucked a car. [00:49:36] Speaker A: Did you notice? So before she even notices the motor oil on her fingers from down there. When you see her in bed that morning when she wakes up, you just see a black smudge in her kind of lower butt crack area. It's like, gross. [00:49:53] Speaker B: Because it becomes, I think, a common thread through the three of these times is almost like the vulnerability that you are when you're in bed. [00:50:00] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:01] Speaker B: Especially when you're. When you're a woman who's going through changes. Especially with, like, you know, the changes that Justine's going through. Especially because, like, the scene where she finds out she has the fucking rash is like when she's under the covers. [00:50:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:14] Speaker B: The Teton, it's like, there's plenty. I think there's multiple scenes where she's under the covers or in bed in different scenes. And then an alpha, just alpha. It's like this. One of the only safest places she could be, like, in the. Like in her bed. But, yeah, I did notice that. And it just. I want to also elaborate too, because we didn't really say anything. There's no. There's no. There's no reasoning as to why cars can fuck people. They don't really. There's nothing. Nothing in this movie that goes. We're going to explain anything as to why this could happen. [00:50:47] Speaker A: No, it is intentional. [00:50:49] Speaker B: It's intentional. That is just like. Yep. She's so into cars that I guess cars are so into her. [00:50:57] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:58] Speaker B: And she can fuck a car if she wants. [00:51:01] Speaker A: And unfortunately, she does not have an older sister to reveal that she also fucks cars and that this is actually a hereditary thing. [00:51:09] Speaker B: Could you imagine if, like, this movie opened and it's like, just in a car park and it's just a wide shot of a car park and then you just see a car just constantly bumping up and down and then just. Alf. It's just like deton. It's like, oh, Jesus. Yeah, it's so. Yeah. Alexia pretends to be a missing boy. A missing 17, 18 year old boy named Adrian bashes her nose in, gets rid of her eyebrows, gets rid of her hair, and then basically. [00:51:41] Speaker A: And binds her breasts and stomach to look flatter. More like a boy. Yeah. [00:51:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Which the Teton has a lot of, I think, conversation about gender roles in terms of just like gender identity and just like discovering kind of the gray area of, you know, Alexia. There's never any indication that Alexia identifies other than female. But when she pretends to be Adrien, she is being treated so vastly different. [00:52:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:16] Speaker B: As a boy. Than she was when she was a woman. That there is kind of this, like, maybe this is. Maybe I should just pretend to be this boy for the rest of my life. Because I don't think. I hate how people are not trying to kiss me and get autographs every time they see me, which is just like, fuck. I mean, not saying. It's not surprising. I think it's a conversation that is completely understandable and I think is a good. Especially when it's about a woman pretending to be a boy and being like, oh, yeah, the world treats me differently when I'm not how I want. [00:52:49] Speaker A: Well, yeah. I mean, and it's also, I think like the film is saying something with how so when she's posing as Adrian, she obviously is passing as a boy. Well enough for people to assume, okay, this is Adrian, you know, but there are multiple, I mean, recurring comments about her or his androgyny. Just like how difficult to pin down he looks, how unmasculine he looks, you know, very, very like this is a sexless being. And despite all the hiding and disguising that Adrian is doing and kind of feeling like she's living under the gun in a way, there is this implication that she is almost more comfortable in this sexless body, in this androgynous. Maybe further removed from the average person's human experience. [00:53:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:54] Speaker A: And. And you know, it kind of, I think, feeds her self otherism, which she clearly already felt as a woman. [00:54:04] Speaker B: And also it gives her a way to see the world where she's not relying on sexuality. [00:54:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:54:10] Speaker B: It definitely feels like in a comfortable nature. Her sexuality is cars, just in general. Seems like one of the strongest aspects that she's confident in that she believes to be. She is confident that she is. You know, she's gorgeous, she's sexy, she knows how to. She knows how to dance with her body. She knows how to get people to look at her. [00:54:31] Speaker A: Well, then that's the thing too is I think she knows how to use it. Like, I don't. It almost suggests that she doesn't really have that much of a sex drive except for her cars. [00:54:42] Speaker B: Except when you have to drive the car. [00:54:45] Speaker A: But she knows what to do with herself in a sexual situation and knows how to get what she wants out of people. [00:54:52] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:54:53] Speaker A: It becomes her sex is like a tool for her. [00:54:56] Speaker B: A crutch. Yeah, Basically. It's like when you initially see her, she's like, oh, she definitely knows how to gain people's attention and to attract others and to like, basically her charisma is solely through her sexuality and how she uses it. And that becomes a crutch because she doesn't. You think she fully understands it until she can't use it as much and then realizes maybe I was kind of just like shutting myself off. And I now realize that, like. Because it becomes a point where. When Adrian. When he. When she's pretending to be Adrian, and Adrian has moments that are probably a little bit more risque or, you know, maybe feels like her. Her initial reaction would be to kiss somebody to kind of make them stop doing something that's not the right call, when usually it would be fine. And half again, all this stuff about her fucking a car, killing people, getting caught, pretending to be Adrian to get away from the cops. All this is like in the first 30 minutes. This movie's an hour 47. So you're like, okay, what the fuck else happens after this? And I remember in the theater, I think there's the energy of like, what. Yeah, what is the rest of this movie going to be if this is. If we're kind of past that right now? [00:56:17] Speaker A: Strangely wholesome, believe it or not, it's insanely wholesome. [00:56:22] Speaker B: A lot of bisexual lighting, a lot of purple, a lot of self discovery, a lot of body horror. And also probably the most fascinating performance, I think, out of all three of these movies. On top of Alexia's performance. And that is Vincent. [00:56:38] Speaker A: Yes. [00:56:39] Speaker B: Adrian's father, who never gave up on finding his son, who is a fireman who lives on like a firefighters compound. [00:56:47] Speaker A: He's all these young captain of the fire squad. [00:56:49] Speaker B: He's the captain of the fire squad, lives on a compound with the rest of his fire, with his firefighters, and clearly is divorced from his wife. He never gave up about Adrian. And so when he's told that Adrian has been found and the cop is like, I mean, we can do some tests. And Vincent just with the intense energy of. You think? I don't know how my son looks. [00:57:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:15] Speaker B: And then opens the blinds and it's fucking Alexia pretended to be Adrian and he just takes him. [00:57:22] Speaker A: You think I don't know my son? I choose that one, the one that's definitely not my son. [00:57:26] Speaker B: And it's fucking hilarious because in a way, because it's like Alexia things okay now I'm away from the cops. I just have to run from this old man and it'll be fine. I'll just go find somewhere else to live. And this man's fucking prepared. He expects his son is going to run away just due to flight or fight or fight or flight scenario. And so there's a scene where right before they get to the compound, Alexia tries to book it from the car. And fucking Vincent is like. It's like Captain America, Civil War just beelines it and meets up with Alexia and goes. It basically goes, if anyone tries to hurt you, I will kill them. Including me. If I hurt you, I will kill myself. And that is like the first real emotional, intense moment that these two have. And again, we got another hour left at this point. And then what happens is this, like Andy said this weirdly wholesome thing between a man who has been lonely for so long and has just wanted to have his son again, who is dealing with his own masculinity and his own mortality because he's not as young and not as buff as he used to be. [00:58:45] Speaker A: Yeah, he's getting old. His body's failing him. He's resorted to steroids to keep himself strong. [00:58:51] Speaker B: He stands in a purple bathroom mostly maybe a pink bathroom with his tight ass. Like his cheeks are so. It's like, what is happening? [00:59:01] Speaker A: I mean this with the utmost, like, respect. So red and. Yeah, respect and, and honestly, like admiration for shooting that scene. One of the most horrifying like human bodies on screen I've seen in a long time. Just because of the way it's lit, the way he flexes certain muscles like after he, he. So he like almost nightly, I think injects himself with steroids in the butt. And it's getting to be hard on his system as like a six year old man or whatever he is. And so like after he injects himself like from the pain or what, I don't know, he just starts like clenching all these different muscles in his body and it's like these, there's these little muscles like twitching on his back and it's just like he's all top lit in this purple, pink lighting. It's like, dude, you are horrifying. [00:59:53] Speaker B: It's also lit in a way where like you could see every single freckle, every single pore. [00:59:58] Speaker A: It is the most intense, very sharp [01:00:00] Speaker B: lighting, the most intense purple pink lighting I've seen on any old man I've ever seen. And the funniest thing too is that he's clearly doing steroids just so he feels like he's. He's young with the boys, he can, he can keep up with hang. But as soon as he has that whole scene where he's butt ass naked shoots steroids into himself, we are good to go. He tries to do a pull up and it's such. He cannot do it. He finished one screaming in the garage because he can't get. [01:00:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:29] Speaker B: He's like, you're fucking useless, dude. Oh my God. You get to a point where you're like, okay, you think maybe one of the. One or the other is going to kill each other? They might, there might be a moment where something snaps in either one of them and then they fight and then that person just wins and the fight. And hilariously it becomes less about that and more like, this is insane. They're kind of perfect for each other. And that's fucked up. [01:01:02] Speaker A: It's an interesting sort of experiment with like two people who meet each other's needs in an exact and serendipitous way. In that Vincent needs someone to love and take care of in order to like feel some worth for himself. And at least in their current situation, Adrian, Alexia. Alexia slash Adrian really needs to be protected by somebody and really needs to be able to kind of hide behind that. And so it's this weird. It starts out as a relationship convenience and then I think they kind of. They develop this really bizarre trust for one another. [01:01:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:01:49] Speaker A: And it's fascinating to watch both performers just really, they. They just chip away at each other in this way and like come slowly become softer around each other. And it's. It's wonderful. The both these actors are phenomenal in this movie. [01:02:06] Speaker B: It goes from being like, well, is this going to be like a Safdie esque? Like this person just keeps doing bad [01:02:11] Speaker A: things and going down the rabbit hole. [01:02:13] Speaker B: And it be. Yeah. And it's like, no, it becomes, it becomes the scenario of one, like basically a man realizing, at least in his mind that his son is like. Having his son back is not exactly what he thinks he is. He wants to have a kid that he can teach how to like, play catch or like teach her to become a firefighter. And while some things really work the way that he thinks they work. Alexia is clearly not Adrian. And also is just like, not in, like, immediately is just like, what the. No, I'm not. I'm not your son. Like, internally, she's not gonna say this out loud because man is constantly pink at all times. He's. He's just. He's ready to burst. [01:02:55] Speaker A: Right. [01:02:56] Speaker B: And so it's just, like, a lot of him being like, I thought this is how my son would be. And she's being like, this is becoming more difficult than I thought. And then at a certain point where it should be the turning point for, like, Alexia getting away. And then Vincent just kind of accepting that his son is not who he wanted him to be, that's when they start to connect weirdly enough. And then the movie becomes more about them. Yeah. Like, kind of chipping at each other away. And their insecurities and their vulnerabilities become more open to each other. [01:03:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:03:27] Speaker B: And it becomes this very engaging, interesting thing of, like, both of them are in this space where, like, they only. They only kind of use. They only have a specific type of love that they understand. Vincent's love is for his son. It's a familial love. The only family that he still technically has because his wife has left him to go do something because she can't handle the trauma of losing a son. Alexia's love that she only knows is sexual. So, like, at certain points, you can see in her eyes that she's like, I think in a usual situation, I might have just kissed him, but he's my dad, technically, but not what the fuck is going on. It becomes this thing where two people who are very closed off in different ways find a way to kind of find a common ground and open each other up into the idea of a normalcy that I think neither one of them could have ever anticipated. Where Alexia clearly gets weirdly engaged with learning how to become a firefighter, helping people. Like, there's a scene where she saves a life. [01:04:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:04:35] Speaker B: And it's like, the most noble thing she will ever do in this movie. And it's like this weird moment where she's just like, I. I did it right. And Vincent's like, that's my boy. And it's like this kind of satisfaction from a father figure that's like, I don't think I've ever had a parent say, good job. [01:04:55] Speaker A: Right. [01:04:55] Speaker B: And it becomes this kind of fascinating duo that everyone around them is either like, I don't fucking believe that this is really what we Think this is where it's a son kind of coming up with his father and have a great father son relationship. So, like, I either I'm gonna blow this up, or in case of the ex who basically finds out that Adrian is Alexia, basically tells her, you better fucking treat him right, because this is all he basically has. [01:05:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Take care of him. [01:05:26] Speaker B: Which is fucking insane because similar to Raw, there are moments where you're just like, okay, when's the shoe gonna drop? [01:05:32] Speaker A: Right? [01:05:32] Speaker B: Something bad's gonna happen. And then when the ex finds out, because at this point, like, Alexia so far gone with. With her pregnancy, like, it's just painful to constantly keep binding. And then she has all these cuts. [01:05:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Every night she has to take her bandages off and, like, you just see all the lines and imprints. [01:05:51] Speaker B: She doesn't even have a bowling ball in her stomach. It looks like a bowling ball bag. [01:05:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:05:56] Speaker B: Like, it's just so big. And what's so funny too, is the movie gets around that by like, oh, when she binds, you just can't see it. [01:06:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:03] Speaker B: We just fucking. [01:06:04] Speaker A: Well, and she is almost. They almost always have her in, like, a baggy jacket or a big sweatshirt or something too. [01:06:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Because the body horror here, even though we get later on into the. The movie, there's the body horror of, like, the farther the baby comes along. [01:06:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:18] Speaker B: The more. The more metallic Alexia is becoming because basically her stomach ends up ripping. [01:06:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:06:26] Speaker B: And you just see just straight chrome under the fucking thing. For the most part, the film, a lot of it is like, pretty relatable body horror in terms of just like, she constantly is trying to suck her stomach in. And the sound design of her constantly pushing her stomach in is, like, uncomfortable. [01:06:42] Speaker A: Tying her boobs down. [01:06:43] Speaker B: Tying her boobs down. The. The nose breaking scene, you know, all these things are like. You know, the body horror for the majority of the part is pretty grounded and relatable to an extent. Up until the third act, her dad [01:06:57] Speaker A: starts shaving her face to make her facial hair grow in thicker. [01:07:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And there's a. There's a scene where it's like, oh, that's right. She has a metal plate in her head. So, like, when he's shaving her head next to the metal plate, it's almost like a. Like a little low audible, like low audio ring that's, like, hurtful to her. [01:07:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:16] Speaker B: And then the third act happens and then she just becomes like, full, like motor oil everywhere. Fucking chrome. She's just a miserable mess. [01:07:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:07:24] Speaker B: And in the process of, like, them trying to Figure out their whole dynamic. There's also the other firefighters, their base, which are basically like, immediately they go, ah, look, a gay boy. [01:07:35] Speaker A: Yeah, they all kind of think he's. [01:07:37] Speaker B: Yeah, they just think Alexia is gay. And like, oh, look at this old. It's the captain's gay son. [01:07:43] Speaker A: Right. [01:07:44] Speaker B: And then like hilariously enough, while they'll make fun of Adrian for being gay, they will have, I gotta say, the gayest dance club with a bunch of straight men I've ever seen in my life. Where it's literally all bisexual lady. Yeah, they're all fully clothed and they're like spraying each other all over each other. Like the most were totally not gay butt party I've ever seen. And it's in that scene where we have one of the most wholesome moments with Vincent and Alexia where they dance together in the middle of the room. It's this fascinating thing about like almost the perversion or like the perverse nature of just existing in the world and finding the moments that are really meaningful and wholesome that kind of keep you going in a fascinating way to have that be about a film about a murderous car fucker who now just like found a home, like found a. Had a found family in Vincent where they kind of complete each other when they're both just absolute messes that don't think that there's anything worthwhile to this world and they kind of find it through each other. [01:08:56] Speaker A: Yeah. I think it's fascinating to watch Alexia respond to Vincent's kind of fathering her because it feels like Alexia probably feels as though there's never been anyone in her life who either understood her or bothered to try. [01:09:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:22] Speaker A: And the kind of fascinating rebuttal to that from Vincent is like he doesn't necessarily try to understand her. [01:09:31] Speaker B: No. [01:09:32] Speaker A: He just loves her unconditionally because it's his son. He's like, I got. I never thought I'd get my son back. I got my son back. I'm just going to love you, protect you and take care of you and it doesn't matter. [01:09:43] Speaker B: At one point Alexia tries to do her classic stab you in the ear move. And Vincent goes, oh, what are you going to do? Kill me? Fights him. Yeah. And it's so fucking funny because in Vincent's mind it is like survivors instincts. It is like, yeah, his boy that's been like kidnapped and just been like missing. [01:10:01] Speaker A: He's like a feral child. [01:10:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. In an 18 year old's body in his mind. So he's like, yeah. He's like, yeah, I'll fight this raccoon of a boy if it means I can just have my son in the house. Yeah. Runner up for performance wise definitely goes to Alexia's biological father because that man doesn't say much, but I fucking hate him. [01:10:23] Speaker A: Yeah, he sucks. [01:10:24] Speaker B: Now, that does not excuse Alexia's murderous car funking car fucking tendencies. [01:10:31] Speaker A: Right. [01:10:32] Speaker B: But just the smug nature. [01:10:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:36] Speaker B: And face on this man, even when he is, like, in a vulnerable. Wait, what's happening? What are you doing? He still looks like an asshole. [01:10:44] Speaker A: He's like. Yeah. His face is always condescending. [01:10:47] Speaker B: Props to that man. That man. You did a good job. Everyone does a good job in this movie, but the Vincent and Alexia. Oh, my God. It's like, once it becomes whether. Like, if Duke ran out, came out and was like, yeah. Honestly, like, it wasn't until I got them in the room together where I was like, this is what the movie is. [01:11:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:03] Speaker B: Like, it has this energy of, like, it has a purpose. But you really. That first time watching it, you can never guess what the first, second, and third act will ultimately be. [01:11:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:15] Speaker B: It is. Because it also kind of just ends. Like, if I can give it anything, like, I prefer RA over this. I think Raw is my favorite of the three movies. [01:11:23] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [01:11:24] Speaker B: But this movie is very striking visually, and it's very bold and. But the film just, like, at a certain point, it just. It's when it goes, oh, it's time to end. We're now the finale. Like, there's no. There's no hurdles. There's nothing. No more obstacles, no more people to fight off or, like, even suggest that Adrian is Alexa. No, it's time for baby. And when we get baby. Jesus Christ. It's rough. Well, it's very, very insane. [01:11:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think I will say about that. I think as I imagine and understand from people who have been through it, when it's time for the baby to come, everything else stops. And that is the constant build of the. Is like, okay, well, this is kind of this whole ruse of I am this kid's son. I am not a murderer. I am not who. Or I am exactly who I say I am. This whole thing is bound to go up in flames at some point because this baby has to come. It's going to come. It's getting bigger. It's getting more oily day after day. And so I think that is, you know, I think the film earns that as its. [01:12:40] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. [01:12:41] Speaker A: Climax. [01:12:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:12:43] Speaker A: In. In lieu of like a. Oh, somebody's coming to find You. Somebody's gonna out you. Because, you know, in real life, when the baby's coming, the baby's coming, and not much else matters. [01:12:54] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. It just becomes like this, like. Because I try to remember what leads to the final scene. Because the final scene is just incredibly visceral. Is very initially very unsuspecting. Yeah. [01:13:08] Speaker A: Well, shortly before the actual birth scene is when Vincent finally discovers. [01:13:15] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. [01:13:17] Speaker A: Alexia, as opposed to Adrian, because he can't even remember how. But I think Alexia has a towel on. [01:13:25] Speaker B: Yes. [01:13:26] Speaker A: And it, like, falls down or something. He sees her breasts and her pregnant belly. [01:13:31] Speaker B: I think the impression, like. I think one of the reasons why Vincent is such a fascinating person. Performance from Vincent, the actor's name is Vincent. Is the fact that I think throughout the beginning of his performance onward, it's almost like he's playing it as someone who knows from the get go that this is not really Adrien. [01:13:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:50] Speaker B: Certainly initially he wants to believe it clearly. I think as they get to the firehouse, there is this energy of, like, I think, this isn't my son, but this person is very nice to her. This person's not horrible. Like, we're working well together all the way up until, like, when the ex comes in and treats it like he doesn't know. That's where I think in the movie, I'm like, no, I think he pretty much knows that's not Adrian. And I think that's, like, right after that is like, a few minutes later is the towel scene. [01:14:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:14:23] Speaker B: I don't care who you. [01:14:24] Speaker A: Yeah. His reaction to seeing her is like, he just takes a beat. Like, stares at her, takes a beat. And there's like, I don't care who you are. You're always gonna be my son. [01:14:33] Speaker B: Which is just fascinating. So well done. But it has this great energy to it. [01:14:39] Speaker A: Not to have, like, not to have. This is exactly a nerd aside that, like, two of our listeners will appreciate. I'm already loving this, but it gave me la la soon was a woman who could have been a mother to me moment where it's like, that is just a line that reveals everything about that character. [01:15:01] Speaker B: Oh, y. [01:15:02] Speaker A: In a single sentence. [01:15:03] Speaker B: Makes you recontextualize everything. Yeah. [01:15:05] Speaker A: I don't care who you are. Basically, I just need a son. Like, I need a child to look after. And I don't care who you are. You're that child to me. Now, I do think, because I need that. [01:15:15] Speaker B: Yes. I think it has. That is a moment where it goes, oh, another aspect, I think Ducournau is discussing is like, how much a parent's unconditional love can affect someone's development. [01:15:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:15:28] Speaker B: Because in that moment, it's like, it's the first time I think, a parent has said love you to Alexia, even though it's supposed to be Adrian, Vincent Adrian. But it's the first time. I think it's. It's almost clear that, like, Alexei has ever had a parent just be like. Or even just a father figure be like. No matter all your faults, your. Your kinks, the amount of cars you fucked doesn't matter. You are my son. I love you. You always have somewhere to go. And it's like you can see it in Alexia's face where it's like, this is insane. Like, but, like, I like this and this is. And then I think that goes to the thing with Alexia's actress where it's like. You know, I do think the ending does have that energy of like. Yeah. When it has to end the way that it does. Because, like, I think when more of Alexia starts to come out in her performance of Adrian, it starts to not really mesh as well as what she thinks it should. And it leads her to basically, I think, second guess herself, because now she's having a bit of an identity crisis, because now, clearly she likes being Adrien more than Alexia. So it leads to, like, initially, she has like, a little dance moment on top of a fire, type of a fire truck that is very, very tame for the usual Alexia dance. But it's clearly more sensual. And Vincent hates this. It's probably the most. Vincent's been like, that's not what my son would do, kind of energy. And then, you know, Alexia feels lonely. And so you think that they're gonna have a sad moment. No, they just. They fuck a fire truck to feel better. They fuck an ambulance, I think, and it's not enough. Just a one night stand with a fire truck, ambulance is not gonna be enough for her. And then that's when it's like, okay, baby's coming. [01:17:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:17:16] Speaker B: And then leads to, I think, one of the most fascinating moments being the finale of the movie, because, yeah, she shows up fully naked in Vincent's room, which, I mean, Vincent has seen her naked, but now she's like, fully naked, covered in, like, oil, clearly about to have a baby. And then has this moment of like, Alexia finally says I love you to Vincent, and Vincent says, I love you back. But Alexia, still confused about what? Love. Love has multiple facets. She immediately strikes to kiss him, Right. And Vincent's immediately Like, that jumps out of bed. [01:17:53] Speaker A: He's like, whoa, what the fuck are you doing? [01:17:54] Speaker B: And then, thankfully, I think in a lesser movie, you know, they would have happened 30 minutes prior, and then they were just like. They wouldn't be son and father and son anymore. But no, it happens for a second. She's now in full pain and in [01:18:07] Speaker A: birthing full labor mode. [01:18:08] Speaker B: Full labor mode. And you know what? Vincent is a loving father, God damn it. He's going to help deliver this car baby with his mic. He fucking grabs her legs, like, grabs him with so much strength. [01:18:21] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:18:22] Speaker B: Picks up her whole body to pull it through. He gets real close. [01:18:25] Speaker A: He puts a week's worth of roids into that hole. [01:18:28] Speaker B: Absolutely. He's pinker than he's been in a while. And then basically has the first time they go, what's your name? Alexia. Nice to meet you, Alexia. [01:18:37] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:38] Speaker B: We're gonna deliver this baby. It's like, fuck, man, this is so wild. And then all these tears around her stomach start to happen. She's pushing hard. There's oil everywhere. And then the baby gets born. And it. Initially you're just thinking it's gonna be a car baby. [01:18:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:18:55] Speaker B: And then Alexia passes because she just gave birth to a fucking car baby. Vincent loses his son, per se, but gains possibly another child in Alexia's child, who is a baby, is a human [01:19:13] Speaker A: baby with a metal spine. [01:19:15] Speaker B: A metal spine. A sick ass, metal spine. And he just lays in bed next to Alexia's dead body to try to comfort that baby. [01:19:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:24] Speaker B: Roll credit, Teton baby. [01:19:26] Speaker A: Yeah. I will say, on first viewing, I was kind of hoping for a little, like, lightning McQueen baby. Or like, a little, like, car with [01:19:36] Speaker B: eyes like a Matchbox car. [01:19:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:19:40] Speaker B: Oh, my God. There's. There's got to be a moment where she. Weird. [01:19:44] Speaker A: There have to be concept designs of, like, where they, like, tried to do more car. Human hybrid. [01:19:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:19:51] Speaker A: And then they settled on the metal spine for practical reasons. [01:19:54] Speaker B: Well, it's also like. I think it just would be like. That's the most surprising thing you could really do. [01:19:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:19:59] Speaker B: At this point, you're like, that baby has to look like. [01:20:01] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a little Optimus prime coming out. Yeah. [01:20:03] Speaker B: Like a chrome demon that, like. It's just like. Like, when it goes rare, there's like, an acoustic kind of wail to it. But no, it is just. It's a baby. It's a baby with a metal spine. And that's. That's Teton. That is the film that won the Palme D' or in 2021. And it is, I think it's remarkable. It's a remarkable film. It's a remarkable second film to the point where it's like well how the. Where the. Again it's now raw but more in terms of like where the fuck do you go from here? Yeah, well like now you have two like I think modern day examples of like what will probably be classic body horror films to a degree that like I think like there's an eye. There's a whole thing where David Cronenberg on like an interview constantly just talks about Titanic. Where like if Cronenberg is talking about his alley dad's like yeah, it's like if it's body horror and Cronenberg is talking about you, I don't know what bigger flex there is right where the biggest freak in that sub genre is talking about you. But surprisingly enough, and honestly I would say now having seen it, Duke Horno takes an interesting step away from the body horror aspect. Not to the point where it's not involved. It is involved in. But instead goes for a few fascinating genre shift. In a way it's more drama. It is a shock thriller, it is a family drama. Psychological thriller. Psychological drama. [01:21:38] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. [01:21:39] Speaker B: The body horror aspect is there and I think it's really well done. But it is very. Is in the background for the most part. Yeah, it is a film that initially makes you think that we're going to get another. This is gonna be a Ducournau body horror classic. Let's get it going. This shit's gonna fuck everybody up. But in reality there's so much more going on to it than I think I could have ever anticipated. And that is 2025's Alpha. The film that as the release of this should be near you, possibly in theaters or at least if it's not near you, maybe in a few weeks. [01:22:14] Speaker A: At least in a large city, major market. Near you. [01:22:16] Speaker B: Yeah, at least. At least now has a US release and we'll probably get a streaming release in about a month or so hopefully. But I mean it had a festival run which is its original Official release in 25 neon. The distributor picked it up, production company I believe they're the ones distributed it this weekend. And the film is about a 13 year old girl named Alpha in an indiscernible time frame which I believe due to what the film is talking about, we're doing about the mid to late 80s early 90s where it's about a 13 year old French girl who goes to a house Party, gets a little too inebriated, passes out, wakes up to someone tattooing an A. Yeah. On their arm with what clearly is not Ace clean needle. [01:23:11] Speaker A: Right, right. [01:23:12] Speaker B: Her mother, a woman named Maman, is a doctor who works at an understaffed, underfunded hospital who is currently dealing with. [01:23:22] Speaker A: I think Maman is just her calling her mom. [01:23:25] Speaker B: Yeah, her name is Maman. I think it's like. I think. I thought. I thought her name was Maman because I know we have Amin, which I think is. [01:23:31] Speaker A: Well, Amin is. Yeah. Her uncle. [01:23:33] Speaker B: Her uncle. Maybe it's just Maman. Yeah. Just calls her Maman. I apologize if that was incorrect. I just. Like when we did the. The cast listing for the movie. [01:23:42] Speaker A: Oh, that's what they call it. [01:23:43] Speaker B: That's what it calls. The actress is fantastic. She's been in a bunch of stuff. I think she's in, like the Chris Hemsworth extraction movies. [01:23:51] Speaker A: Oh. [01:23:52] Speaker B: She's like. She's got a lot. She's got solid crossover. I was like, that's the first time I'd seen her. [01:23:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:23:57] Speaker B: But, yeah, her mom is a doctor at an underfunded, understaffed hospital that is dealing with a. Basically a very harrowing epidemic that is very much mirroring the HIV AIDS epidemic of the 80s and 90s. But instead of it being the symptoms fully of HIV and AIDS, it is. This disease is turning people to actual stone. It is turning people into this marble stone. Kind of scratchy, just kind of dust. [01:24:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:24:32] Speaker B: Person that. [01:24:33] Speaker A: Basically the most horrific version of what happens to Ben Grimm. [01:24:37] Speaker B: Yes. And it's clearly. It is clearly supposed to be, you know, metaphoric of how people withered away and how they're just immune systems, they became just skeletons, husks. When the. When AIDS was really at its worst peak and especially at the. The tail end of the disease when you have it. And she's dealing with that constantly seeing it all the time. And so when she comes home to find her daughter with this dirty ass tattoo on her arm, her immediate thought is, holy shit, we need to get tests for you. [01:25:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:15] Speaker B: Because we don't want to be any diseases. Clearly. Kind of being like, I don't want my daughter to have the Stone disease. [01:25:22] Speaker A: Well, of course. [01:25:23] Speaker B: Yeah, of course. Because it's a dirty needle. Because also at the same time is while, you know, Alpha is trying to deal with the fact that, like, you know, this arm, while she's trying to hide it with bandages, is constantly bleeding and like, her blood is like. Even when she's trying to act normally and do stuff, it's like it's getting all over things. It's getting on the ground. They go to PE and she gets it all over the ball on accident. She's treated as a patient zero to a disease that she may or may not have. [01:25:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:25:55] Speaker B: There's no symptoms that she has it, but since she's a 13 year old girl in like middle school, high school, I'm gonna say it's the worst time, I would say, of any teenager to have, like a debilitating disease that could, you know, affect others around you and could spread actual panic amongst, like, family and friends. And. And while all this is happening, her uncle decides to come stay with her and her mom and her uncle is a recovering heroin addict who has these, you know, these stretch. Not stretch marks. It's track marks. Track marks. Thank you. Track marks that go all the way up his arm. And the movie even opens with a scene with young Alpha. The last time he saw her, she saw him, which was like five, when she was five. Putting a Sharpie towards all of his track marks to try to make it [01:26:49] Speaker A: look kind of like drawing a constellation on his stars. Yeah. [01:26:54] Speaker B: Is fucking already out the gate. Intense and depressing and like, this is not at all the tone I was thinking of. [01:27:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Which also kind of bringing up Amin, her uncle, leads into what feels like maybe the film's biggest structural or framing difference between this and the other two in that we're actually working with like parallel time frames. [01:27:24] Speaker B: Yes. [01:27:25] Speaker A: After Amin is introduced, we are going back and forth between the present, where she's 13, and the past when she's 5 and kind of more her mother's story. Story from that time. [01:27:38] Speaker B: And they do. And Duke Cordon does a great job of discerning the two because of hairstyles and color grading. And color grading as well. But, like, in terms of, like, even if you're like, for some reason kind of caught off guard by, like, this scene kind of feels out of place. [01:27:50] Speaker A: It took me a while to figure out what. What I was seeing. [01:27:53] Speaker B: If it wasn't for the mom's curly hair in the past scenes and then she has long straight hair in the, in the present scenes. There is kind of like, yeah, what the. Where is this coming? I know. I was like, oh, so this is just the mother. Maybe the mother is telling. [01:28:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:28:08] Speaker B: What's going on with this? And one thing we should bring up, because when the movie starts and you see Amin, there was something strange about Amin because we have seen him before. Not only have we seen him before, we have talked about him in the last year or so. Because the actor that plays Amin is a French actor who was in Madame Web as the villain. The man who genuinely, I think, has the most profound performance of Alpha because of course he has to do, I think, the flashiest stuff. He's playing a recovering heroin addict who is constantly going back into remission. Lost a lot of weight, has to do a lot of the. Not classic. Classic is not a good way to put it, but like what we have now known as like the tells of withdrawal, kind of like the symptoms of trying to get better, but also just kind of like of addiction per se. And he's really putting his whole body into the role. [01:29:14] Speaker A: He's also turning into rocks. [01:29:15] Speaker B: He's also. Yeah, turned into rocks because we find out that he has the disease. And it's. That scene is great because I think that's the most like. I think you would think it's a Duke Corneau kind of body horse stuff in that regard. And that, Gosh, when she's like just chipping at it. [01:29:35] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That. That scene is horrifying also. [01:29:39] Speaker B: Certainly good. [01:29:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Certainly not in the same way as the other two. Not quite as like. [01:29:45] Speaker B: No. [01:29:45] Speaker A: Viscerally upsetting but still like unnerving because you know, you're seeing something, somebody's body chip away. [01:29:53] Speaker B: Yeah. This is definitely a movie I think I would probably appreciate more in a second go around. Mainly because I think going into this movie being like this is the woman behind Ra and Titan, it really pumps [01:30:07] Speaker A: the brakes on the provocateur stuff. [01:30:09] Speaker B: It's a character study. It's a family drama about grief study. Yeah. It's the familial trauma. How to accept it, how to not dealing with it during a full blown epidemic. That is like you have a family member who is in like ground zero of that almost every single day and is having to deal with is. It is something that like you. You get to meet the generational divide between Alpha and her grandma. The fact that like they cannot really speak to one another because they cannot speak the same language. And like, you know, her mammon and how like she basically is the. The go between. Between her grandma and her. And there's this whole conversation about, you know, spirituality versus like you know, being agnostic or atheists because like his. Because they're. Alpha's grandmother believes in something called the red wind. [01:31:03] Speaker A: Right. [01:31:04] Speaker B: Which is like a demonic force that had a demonic force, at least to all illnesses and almost is kind of [01:31:10] Speaker A: implied that it's red tide for people. [01:31:13] Speaker B: Yeah, kind of implied that, like, the. What people are experiencing now is probably somewhat the red wind. [01:31:19] Speaker A: Sure, yeah. [01:31:20] Speaker B: Which Alpha's mom hates. But there are similarities to how her mother uses science the way that her grandmother uses religion. And it's a fascinating kind of conversation between the two as Alpha is kind of noticing that, but doesn't know how to really perceive it fully. [01:31:36] Speaker A: She's 13. [01:31:38] Speaker B: Yeah. And again, the woman, the. The girl that plays Alpha, who I believe is like the same age as, like Garance when she was in raw. 18, 19. [01:31:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:31:47] Speaker B: Very tiny. 18 year old. She looks genuinely. I thought it was a 13 year old. [01:31:53] Speaker A: It's really not until the final shot of the film that I'm like, oh, yeah, that actor is definitely older. [01:31:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that's. I agree. The final shot, it's like, okay. They did a really good job of giving her the biggest glass as possible. And I was glad to find out that she was being 18, 19, because there's one scene where I was like, okay, I trust you, Corneau, in this moment. But it's a little. We're getting really close. We're getting a little close to that because it is, you know, because she's doing this whole thing about, like, almost a little bit of a sexual awakening, finding out that finds a boy that she likes. But at the same time, it is like the conversation of being a bit of a hypochondriac, especially having a mother who is a doctor. [01:32:34] Speaker A: Right. [01:32:34] Speaker B: And so it's like every little sneeze or cough, it's like, oh, my God. Yeah, I'm dying. [01:32:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:32:39] Speaker B: And then Amin is kind of like that in between of like, here, you're fucking fine. And she's like, why? I could be sick. And he's like, no, I know what sick is, because I am. And it's like, oh, oh, well, that stone. Okay. And so, like, there's this, you know, trio of Amin. Amin and Alpha that have, like, this, you know, this dynamic that is very much like of a true dysfunctional family. [01:33:06] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [01:33:06] Speaker B: In a way. [01:33:07] Speaker A: Amin keeps overdosing. [01:33:09] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:33:11] Speaker A: Alpha's mom has to keep resuscitating him. [01:33:13] Speaker B: And Alpha's just dealing with that trauma constantly. But at the same time, both Amin and Mommy Maman are there for her in their own way. There's even a scene where, like, Alpha's just having these intense cold, like, hot sweats. Like, sweats and nightmares. And they mirror Amin's kind of withdrawal moments. And then they basically use each other to try to, like, they use each other's kind of Weakness to kind of keep each other strong. And there's a moment we don't even know what he says, but Amin whispers something to Al and it makes her cry, and he cries, and they just hold each other. And it just. It is not what I expected for Ducournau. And that's also why I think I could watch it again and love it, because I think this is a movie that shows this is not a flashy. See, I can do more than just horror. This is clearly a very personal, very intimate story that, like, she was very interested in doing and was very much involved in it. And then just like, I don't care what my background is, probably was perception perceived by everybody. Just because I've done two horror films doesn't mean I can't do this. And then she does it, and it's like. I mean, shit. Yeah. I think this. She really does nail it a lot of the time. It's also not surprising that if you look at both. All three of these films, the Metacritic score, the critic score for all three of these films, Alpha's the lowest. [01:34:38] Speaker A: Sure. [01:34:39] Speaker B: I think Raw is like, at a 70, 75. Tatana is like, at an 80. Or maybe those are flipped, but Alpha's like, at a 50. [01:34:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:34:49] Speaker B: I think it split people down the middle because I don't think. I think, like, us, it was very shocking to them, but I think it had more of a negative effect. [01:34:57] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's also. I think the movie's giving itself a pretty tall task in. [01:35:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:35:04] Speaker A: Not just changing gears for Ducournau to something a little bit more somber and serious, but also stylistically trying to do the parallel timelines without super clear structural framework. It's kind of like the film just jumps between whenever and eventually melds at a certain pivotal scene later in the movie. But, yeah, I mean, it's a tough. This movie is juggling a lot of things. And it's. You know, it's. Yes, it's revisiting the collective human experience of the AIDS crisis in the 80s and 90s. It's also discussing addiction and what, you know, the lengths you go to to support people when they're suffering from addiction. And also the grief of losing loved ones and all of that. And, yeah, faith versus science. It's just so much. And I think the movie does a really admirable job with all of those things, but there are times where it, like, you feel it kind of bending under the weight of, like, man, this is really dealing with a lot. And I don't know that they're all getting the time that they need. [01:36:19] Speaker B: No, I do. Yeah. I think. I think it's also. Yeah. The fact that, like, there is. Once you realize. Because I think I will admit, like, when I watched the movie, I was like, is this, like, initially I was like, is this a metaphor for aids? Because I feel like that was too easy. [01:36:34] Speaker A: Sure. Yeah. [01:36:35] Speaker B: And it was. It, like, 100% was. But, like, my brain was like, whoa. [01:36:38] Speaker A: But it does feel like, really, like. [01:36:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what we're doing. And it doesn't mean you can't have make a film like that about the AIDS epidemic like this, because, of course, it is still important. It is still a conversation that I think is still resonant when you talk about especially, like, just LGBTQ media of that era and especially history of lgbtq, but just the persecution and the horrors around that time. [01:37:02] Speaker A: Well, and I do. With that, like, I also think that [01:37:04] Speaker B: that would also affected non. Like lgbtq. [01:37:07] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. [01:37:09] Speaker B: Because this is a completely. This is a completely heterosexual family, I think, through and through. [01:37:15] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, as far as we can tell. Yeah. [01:37:17] Speaker B: But it still affects them right. In the. In a harrowing way. [01:37:20] Speaker A: Right. But, yeah. And I mean, I think also, like, even though it clearly is at a certain point very much revisiting the HIV AIDS epidemic, it's also like, that is also playing sort of secondarily to the family aspect. Yeah, it's kind of like a framing device, I guess. It is. Yeah. And while the film does have things to say about that and, you know, how people treat one another in those situations, it's also kind of more interested, and I think in a good way, more interested in the, like, family trauma, grief, you know, what do we do for the people we love? Type of. Type of dynamic. [01:38:03] Speaker B: It is very. Yeah. And it very much. Yeah, it is kind of. I think the film at certain points does meander a little too much. I do think that if the film was probably. [01:38:14] Speaker A: It's very French. [01:38:19] Speaker B: I think I get what you mean by that. I just. If you cut 20 minutes, I think. I think if it was closer to Titan's runtime, I think it would feel. Yeah, I think it immediately is an improvement because I do think by the time you get to the third act, which I think in my head, the best part of this movie is the final 30 minutes. But to get to that point, there are the beginnings. Very slow. [01:38:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:38:41] Speaker B: The. Honestly. And again, it does also follow what I talked about with Ra and Titan in terms of, like, you know, every 30 minute chunk feels like, there's a new addition to it. Like, by the end of the first 30 minutes, that's when Amin shows up. Right. And then after that, I think it's more of the discovery of the Amin having the disease as well as, you know, maybe the reveal, I think, of Alpha not having a disease, because that's another thing, is there's a reveal that Alpha is clean. Alpha doesn't have any disease, but her mother does not trust it. We also haven't brought up the fact that, like, weirdly enough, in a. In a film that has, you know, a strong cast, but a cast you probably will think is a bunch of unknowns. Fucking Emma Mackey from Sex Education, Barbie, Death on the Nile. [01:39:31] Speaker A: Everybody's favorite Margot Robbie look alike. [01:39:33] Speaker B: Yeah, everyone's favorite film from last year, Ella McKay or whatever. Ella McKay, yeah. She speaks apparently fluent French, or at least learned for this movie, because she speaks entirely in French. [01:39:45] Speaker A: Yes. [01:39:46] Speaker B: She is Alpha's doctor, initially for the tests, and is also her mom's co worker. So she's in more than just a [01:39:53] Speaker A: scene, but very much a secondary character, doesn't take over the movie. [01:39:59] Speaker B: She's there, in a way to kind of show more about Alpha's mom, in a sense, because she's basically like, yeah, she's fine. She doesn't need any more tests. And her mom goes, you can't trust the test. It's like, that's funny. You're a fucking doctor. What do you mean you can't trust the test? And then just shows that her. Her, you know, mother being. Being the mother of Alpha is clouding her scientific judgment on it. Because she's just worried, you find out. She's just worried to lose somebody else in the family. Because the crazy thing about the movie, too, is that for the longest time, the past and present kind of stuff, you think the. The past scenes are really just to add more context in history to Amin and Maman's relationship. Because Alpha doesn't remember Amin. [01:40:46] Speaker A: Right. [01:40:47] Speaker B: When Amin shows up in the film, Alpha's like, I don't remember you. You look. Are you gonna attack me? [01:40:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:40:53] Speaker B: Gonna hurt me? And he's like, I don't fucking. No. Put that knife away. Then when her mom shows up, she's like, get that knife away. It's your fucking uncle. Kiss your uncle. But, like, all the past scenes really just focus on Maman and Amin. And then when you get to the third act, like the full end of the film, which I think is the last 30 minutes, is just one big ending of the Movie you get this constant thing of like we go from, we go from Alpha just at the lowest of the low, Amin at the lowest of his low. But basically Amin and Alpha sneaking out to go kind of live a life because you know, Alpha is kind of in this place where she's having dreams that everything is closing in on her and she's like having a hard time breathing when she clearly can breathe, but it's all psychological. So Amina's trying to help Alpha get better, but in the process of that, while they're all out hanging out, she's, they're getting drunk together. They're getting, they're hanging out at a, it seems very much a gay bar. Yeah, they're hanging out a gay bar. Amin gets drugs, gets high, abandons his, abandons his niece at the fucking bar. She waits outside, finds Amin, he just gets fucking mean with her and basically goes, hey, just so you know, if I ever stop breathing, don't, don't resuscitate. Which is just like, yeah, this poor 13 year old girl's drunk, scared he was gonna say that shit. And then he runs away from her and then I think has a car. Like he has cardiac arrest in the, in the road. And this is all too. Let It Happen by Tame Impala. While this was not expecting to hear Tame Impala. [01:42:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:42:39] Speaker B: In Alpha, a great choice of the song. I think Let It Happen is also like, of course if I die it's like fucking Christ. [01:42:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:42:49] Speaker B: And then there's even a moment where they just hard cut the music and then they hard bring it back on when she's running away and then she runs to this random hotel you think has no significance to where she's going. Until the third act decides to be like, by the way, we are going to meld present and past. Where we start to see that Amin for this entire film has been a figment, a collaborative, a collective figment between Alpha and her mother. Yeah, they both have. [01:43:19] Speaker A: In the present. [01:43:20] Speaker B: In the present, yes. Where we realize that when Alpha goes to this hotel and passes out on a bed, she wakes up in this, in the colorful past. [01:43:31] Speaker A: Right. [01:43:31] Speaker B: And it's this part where like her present almost is a stand in for her five year old self when she saw Amin die. [01:43:40] Speaker A: Right. [01:43:40] Speaker B: When she saw her mother basically say it was basically her mother was going to let Amin die and even helps him kill himself in a way because she's like, I don't want you to be taking drugs. Like I, it, I want to be there for you regardless if you're making a very bad decision, which he does and then he overdoses. It's a scene where it constantly cuts between 5 year old Alpha and 13 year old Alpha, which 13 year old Alpha is in blue. Because the present, the kind of the color scheme in the present is a very gray, blue, gray, blue, little green here and there. And then all the past stuff is a very vibrant red, yellow, orange. And then Amin gets resuscitated. And then we see that like Maman's biggest regret, I think is at a certain point just not listening to her brother or is constantly conflicted with herself in terms of like, should she have just let him die that night? Yeah. Or was it the right decision to let him die painfully? [01:44:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:44:41] Speaker B: I think she go through the entire. [01:44:43] Speaker A: I think that's it is she's just endlessly tormented by like, what? What could I have done? What should I have done? [01:44:49] Speaker B: And instead of accepting the fact that regardless of either side of that coin, she lost her brother, she won't let go. And that leads to Alpha's big kind of revelation when she realizes that Amin is just a figment of their imagination and is a stand in for their collective familial trauma. Basically Alpha's like, we have to let him go. We just have to like, it's just like we can't move forward unless we do. And her mother, like a bold move on the film's part. I think I could really appreciate this with more time too, thinking about it, because I will say I just saw this movie yesterday, so it's still pretty fresh. [01:45:26] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:45:27] Speaker B: And I could but like the fact that they don't. Just the fact that Ducournau doesn't like drop it for Maman, the fact that Maman just basically reveals. I can't. [01:45:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:45:37] Speaker B: I have to keep holding on. It's my cross to bear, basically. And the film basically ends with Alpha seeing her mother go through that trauma again in front of her and then ultimately just realizing that, kind of realizing [01:45:53] Speaker A: she can't go with her on that journey anymore. [01:45:56] Speaker B: She can't go with her. But you know, it's something that she's gonna have to accept is what her mother has to do and she's gonna have to go her own way. [01:46:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:46:04] Speaker B: Which I think is very reminiscent of how Maman talks about Alpha's grandmother and how they're not the same type of person and how things kind of kept apart and whatnot. And it ends similar to Ron Dutton. It just goes. Alpha just goes into the credits and it's harrowing. It's very dramatic in the right way. The shot, I think very, very well. There's a shot. The shot of her running away from Amin is just this very big wide shot. The shot where she's fighting the girl in the pool is another really good shot because it goes from under the water all the way up top to the pool. It's just like surrounded in blood. Yeah. And, you know, it just also, at the same time as all this is happening, Alpha finds out that this boy that she's had a crush on and she's been making out with in private, and he's. He's basically fear mongering a little bit about like, maybe she is patient zero and she's giving everybody this unknown disease. [01:47:08] Speaker A: Right. [01:47:08] Speaker B: Not only is she like, she's totally fine and she's in the clear. And he's in the clear. He has the same tattoo as her. He got it right after her. [01:47:17] Speaker A: Yeah. So if she was pretending like she's the dangerous one. [01:47:21] Speaker B: Yeah. And basically said like they were. They would come after me if I didn't make you. Yeah. [01:47:26] Speaker A: Basically scapegoated you. Yeah. [01:47:28] Speaker B: And that's just like, fuck you, God damn it. And then that's the end of that. Once that happens, we never address it again. It becomes. It's one of those things that probably could have. You could have probably made a whole film on the school aspect of it. [01:47:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:47:42] Speaker B: And not have to do anything with the family or vice versa. And. But as is, I think it both works in tandem because, like Andy says, like the, the aids, hiv, kind of like this epidemic and the, you know, the hysterical hysterics surrounding it is a backdrop for the family drama that is closely tied to that because of the death of her uncle having that disease, as well as her mother being constantly subjected to that disease at every given moment. Well, the point where she starts to hallucinate Alpha having that disease. [01:48:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Well. And, you know, speaking of using that as a backdrop, the whole kind of HIV hysteria and the epidemic and everything, I guess I'm curious to know what your read of the. The environment of the final scene was, because as they. After. After Alpha and her mom kind of make the resolution to leave him behind and, you know, move on with their lives. They get in the car, they drive off, mom reveals she can't let him go. And suddenly we cut to outside the car and they're driving through a red dust storm. [01:48:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:48:56] Speaker A: And through a what seems to be totally desolate city. [01:49:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:49:02] Speaker A: And the only other red dust we've seen in the Film leading up to this is on the wounds of these people who are turning into rocks from this disease. Instead of bleeding, they kind of quote, unquote, bleed red dust, red rocky sand. [01:49:19] Speaker B: And you see it very prominently when she's looking at Amin in the past. Yeah. When, like, a lot of rocks fall. [01:49:25] Speaker A: Right, Right. [01:49:25] Speaker B: Poof. [01:49:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Poofs of red. [01:49:27] Speaker B: To me, it feels like that final scene because, like, the thing too is, like, the red. [01:49:32] Speaker A: The red dust, the red wind. Like, is that also the red wind? [01:49:35] Speaker B: I think the red wind, considering that Alpha is never really fully told what the red wind is. Sure. Because, like, what happens is, is that the red wind is discussed in a pat. In a flashback with Maman when she comes over to her friend, like, her parents and her mother's place and helping with Amin. And then she brings that up, and Maman's like, don't. Don't even think of. Don't say anything else. And then later, Amin brings it up and she does the same thing. She never, ever describes to Alpha what it is. I think her grandmother, at one point, which Alpha can't understand, her grandmother does kind of say, it's basically a demon. That is the. Basically, it's almost like a witchcraft kind of thing. It's like the demon has possessed you. It is the true issue with any kind of disease or any kind of illness you have, whether mentally, spiritually. It all has to do with the red wind. [01:50:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:50:34] Speaker B: That ending almost feels like it's the first time Alpha is acknowledging or at least seen, like, what the red wind is in her head. [01:50:43] Speaker A: Sure. [01:50:44] Speaker B: Being like, so this is the red wind. Like the red wind. It almost seems like it's clouding everything around her because it's almost like she's seen that her mother is just entrenched mentally with the red wind. Yeah. It's all that her mother can see is Alpha and Amin and everything else is just clouded. [01:51:02] Speaker A: Right. [01:51:03] Speaker B: It's almost like she's starting to see that her mother is dealing with an illness that she herself will not accept, but she can acknowledge it. And so it's like, how do I keep moving forward from this? And while it's like, it is a sad ending in a sense, it also is this ending that I think has a bit of optimism with the fact that Alpha, so young, is acknowledging. [01:51:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:51:25] Speaker B: There is this problem. [01:51:26] Speaker A: There's hope in revelation. Like, there's hope in realizing that somebody is dealing with something. [01:51:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think considering that, you know, from this point forward, I mean, I don't. Alpha, I don't think really gets subjected much to people dealing with the disease, especially enough to see the Red Wind. [01:51:43] Speaker A: Right. [01:51:43] Speaker B: She does run into her English teacher whose partner is dealing with the disease. [01:51:48] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:51:48] Speaker B: Which leads to a very sweet moment where, like, her partner, where his. Her teacher's partner thinks that she is judging him. [01:51:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:51:57] Speaker B: And he gets very defensive, but she goes, I think you're beautiful all the same, which is very sweet. Alpha is a. Is a shitty teenager like any teenager is, but she's also very sweet at heart. And I think she's going through a lot because of puberty and just having a fucking A tattooed on her arm that she didn't ask for and just being very rebellious. But she has this very sweet, very empathetic core to her that I think really shows that, like, you know, we are constantly are fighting to not become our parents. But I think one of the things that it shows a lot of development is when you just admit to yourself, well, I. I am very much like my mother like this, or I'm very much like my dad like this. And not take that as a. This is. This means all hope is gone. Which I think is like the difference between her and her mother, because Maman almost has this energy. Like when Amin at one point says, you were just like, mom. [01:52:55] Speaker A: Yeah. That's like the end of the world. [01:52:57] Speaker B: It's almost like she was shot in the chest. She was so frustrated. She's so angry at him for even saying such an offensive thing. [01:53:05] Speaker A: Right. [01:53:05] Speaker B: But the ending pretty much confirms it. Like, there is something there where whether she will say it's the Red Wind [01:53:11] Speaker A: or not, she's caught in this storm of the anxiety and grief and trauma, [01:53:18] Speaker B: and it's like she can't over. She's overcome by it. Yeah. And yeah, it's. It's got to come from the woman who did Raw on Teton Bra fucking vo. Like, this is like, such a fascinating turn that, I mean, I think makes a lot of sense. It seems like this is like something that I would be surprised if most horror directors kind of just want to do at a certain point, because we're also seeing this consistently with Ari Aster. [01:53:45] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:53:45] Speaker B: As another example, because he basically went from making two of the most, you know, hyped horror films in a while in the indie space to making an insane comedy horror film, niche film and a complete just Covid drama. [01:54:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:54:04] Speaker B: Drama thriller. That is nothing like what he did before. But I think it's like there's an energy of, like, Duke Horno is definitely proving herself, but it's not in a flashy C, let me do whatever I want kind of way. It is just this movie really spoke to me. And I believe she writes, she wrote this film, very personal film. And just like this is the way that it's doing it instead of doing it how you think. Think I would do it. I'm going to do it how I feel like Bess, you know, enhances the narrative and kind of rises it up higher than what you kind of would expect from maybe someone who did R.A. teton, if that's what she believes. Like, it's the little I've heard of like her conversations and stuff. She's very well spoken, she's very confident. [01:54:53] Speaker A: I mean, you'd have to be. [01:54:55] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. [01:54:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:54:56] Speaker B: It's just like, it's great to really listen to her and be like, man, I'm so glad you're able to make three films in, in a decade that are just stand on their own so well. And I think really, really show off just how, you know, how important it is to get into international cinema because it is just kind of fun to watch how a French director handles specific topics. Yeah, they have definitely been covered in American narratives or other countries narratives, but like, just to see that kind of unique twist right on the coming of age story and a family drama and a car fucking horror film. We don't. There's not a lot of car fuckers in media. And I'm so glad Ducournau gave that to us. [01:55:42] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and I think Ducournau, you know, I think maybe, maybe Alpha is at least at a knee jerk, my least favorite of the three. [01:55:53] Speaker B: It's my knee jerk too. [01:55:54] Speaker A: Yeah. But, you know, like you said, I think there's probably some truth to like, it could be a grower with time. But also like more than that, even if I don't really come around to it that hard, I still feel like, you know, as a third film, effectively for her, it's. It's interesting to watch such a unique filmmaker. [01:56:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:56:21] Speaker A: Stretch themselves into something that's not the obvious next step or not. Like more of the same. And you know, I think, you know, Alpha feels like a sign that, like, yeah, in another 10 years we could be talking about another three or more equally fascinating and surprising films from the same artists. You know, honestly, just because it's clear that kind of the shock provocateur, angsty horror is not all that she has in her bag and not all that she's interested in dealing in. [01:57:01] Speaker B: Well, it just reminds, I think, a Lot of people reminds us that like some of the longest running directors internationally, you know, they do. There are some that have, you know, a constant stream of like. Yep. This seems like something that. Yeah, Scorsese would do. This would seem something like. No. [01:57:16] Speaker A: Would do. They start in genre and expand. Yeah. [01:57:20] Speaker B: But I mean, there's a reason why, you know, the Spielberg kind of of it all in terms of just like how when directors talk about careers, they would like or like something they would kind of go to. It's not trying to be like, I want to be the next Spielberg. It's more like when you look at Spielberg's filmography per se, it is horror, it is war, it is comedy, it is fantasy, historical, historical drama, Cold war thriller. Like he's. He has hit practically. Yes. Sci fi. He's nearly hit every single genre at this point. Action, adventure, for sakes. Like most directors I think look at that and are not like, I. I'm not trying to be Spielberg, but I would love to have the. That breadth, flexibility. [01:58:03] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:58:04] Speaker B: To be like. Yeah, like, it's like I want to do. And do Cornote Way would like to do something that isn't a body horror film like the other two movies. [01:58:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:58:13] Speaker B: It will have body horror aspects to [01:58:14] Speaker A: it, but I wonder if all of her films will have at least some kind of. [01:58:19] Speaker B: I'm gonna be honest, I would fucking love that. [01:58:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:58:21] Speaker B: I think it's like, because it's funny how like around the time the Teton is coming out, it's like you have something like Cronenberg's Crimes of the Future. [01:58:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:58:28] Speaker B: Which almost feels like a film from the little I've seen of it, because I never actually got to see it in full, but I think you saw it. [01:58:33] Speaker A: No. [01:58:34] Speaker B: You haven't seen Crime, so maybe we should watch that. We do. [01:58:37] Speaker A: Should. [01:58:37] Speaker B: We'll probably do Cronenberg at some point. [01:58:39] Speaker A: There's no way we can find. Yeah, there's something. [01:58:42] Speaker B: But like that whole movie almost kind of has this energy of like being an artist and not knowing how to keep going ahead when you're right. When you're known for just this one thing. [01:58:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:58:54] Speaker B: And I think it's a. I think it's great to see a director whether. Whether it fully succeeds or not, which I think Alpha does succeed in the long run. Just shooting for the fences, trying to see if there's more than what most people would expect from you. And that's why it's, you know, that's why we do the Rise of Ducournel. It's a Nice surprise to kind of end this trilogy on Not, I guess, another body horror film, which I think we both expected, like, right. To see something more profound come from her. [01:59:24] Speaker A: Well, yeah, and I think that's one of the. One of the fun things about these rise of that we do is that there's really kind of two ways that we can come at them. Yeah. One being, like, a trilogy that we've got later this year with Spielberg's Rise, where it's. That is decades ago. The man has made dozens of iconic films since then. Like, not even in that trilogy has dozens of iconic films. And it's kind of a retrospective where we're like, okay, well, where does greatness begin? Kind of thing. Or there's the other angle, which is like this, where it's like, we're basically doing this trilogy in the moment, like, at the time of. Because Alpha's just coming out. You know, it's like we are only just now seeing potentially, ideally, the rise of Ducournau. [02:00:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:00:15] Speaker A: You know, she may have a dozen more iconic films in her before she's done. You know, you just don't know because [02:00:22] Speaker B: at this point, she is. She has earned at least as. [02:00:25] Speaker A: I mean, she's only, like, 40, so. [02:00:27] Speaker B: God, you said it like she's about to turn 87. [02:00:30] Speaker A: I said, she's only 40. [02:00:31] Speaker B: I know, but it was just like, oh, my gosh, it's crazy. She's so old. She's 40. [02:00:35] Speaker A: I was saying the opposite. I know. [02:00:37] Speaker B: I'm just fucking with you. I mean, no, I think with her, it's. Yeah, it just. It was funny that. Yeah, we are doing Spielberg later this year, and I did not bring up the Spielberg conversation because to tease that, it just felt like the most natural conversation. [02:00:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:00:54] Speaker B: But, yeah, she's. With these three films, you pretty much has, you know, sold me on. The next time I see her name, I'm like, okay, I'm there. Like, I want. I want to see what you do next. Which I think, again, is. I think is impressive of itself, because there are some directors where you look at their filmographies and you're like, damn, I thought they finished. They started here. This is, like, their fourth or fifth film. Still good on them. But, like, did not realize there are all these other films before that. But, yeah, it is. She is. She's only hopefully going up from here. It's only a decade into her career, and I'm so excited to see what she does next. And I'm excited to see if, when people go see Alpha, the conversation becomes maybe more positive than the critics we've seen so far. And if not, I hope whatever comes next, whatever the conversation is surrounding Alpha, it doesn't deter her from. If she has another big swing taking it. But that is the rise of Jucorno and that is the end of our March episodes. And now we are going into the start of April with an episode we actually talked about doing last year. [02:02:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:02:02] Speaker B: Because last year was the 40th anniversary to this iconic Japanese television series. Don't click away just yet. This is not a Kamen Rider episode. We've already talked about it. We've already talked enough Kamen Rider for both of us. We're too wet behind the ears on that. This is true. But we aren't. We are very well versed in something. We. Yeah. In the universal century, tied to the Mobile Suit Gundam series, which a while ago, we did the compilation films for the original Mobile Pursuit Gundam, which were the films that basically made the series so popular at a point where they just had to bring the series back again. [02:02:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Basically turned a canceled television show into a national icon and what would eventually be an international icon. [02:02:52] Speaker B: And that series got a sequel series that is arguably, in a lot of ways better than OG Gundam. But because it was as good as it was, it didn't get compilation films yet. Decades after that series came out in the 80s, in the early 2000s, they decided, you know how popular the original compilation trilogy is, as well as the fact that they thought it was worth going back into the Zeta Gundam. Well, in 2005 and in 2006, they released three compilation films that basically talk like basically are supposed to encompass the full 50 plus run. Episode run. [02:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, they're doing effectively the same thing as the original Gotham compilation trilogy, only with a very distinct difference in that, I think what you read shortly before we started recording was roughly like 75% new footage. [02:03:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:03:49] Speaker A: New animation. [02:03:50] Speaker B: So we are doing this episode with two guests. So we'll get that out of the way with our. With our friends Evan Dawsey and say Alex's full name. [02:03:59] Speaker A: Alex Holmes. [02:04:00] Speaker B: Alex Holmes. Two Gundam fans who initially we had Evan already signed up for this, and he didn't even know we were doing this. But as soon as he got a whiff, he said, it's mine. [02:04:11] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:04:11] Speaker B: He didn't say, could I please be a part of this? He goes, it's mine. And it's like, of course it's yours. And then Alex later heard from you, I think. Or at least Evan was talking to him. [02:04:20] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's probably worth. We'll go into it more on that episode, of course. But if you've listened to the Pod many times before, you've probably heard Evan's name. He's been on the podcast before. He's a good friend. [02:04:34] Speaker B: Gundam Venom. [02:04:35] Speaker A: Yeah, he's also a colleague in the ifja. Yes, Alex is probably a new name to our listeners, but Alex. In a way, we owe our fandom for Gundam to Alex because he was an online friend of mine, like, just very loose. Like we were in some group, like nerd groups together or meme groups or something and just wound up becoming Facebook friends. And then he basically, in 2021 was like, hey, how come I see your ongoing list of the best movies of 2021? Is Gundam Hathaway gonna be on there by the end of the year? And I was like, what the fuck is Gundam Hathaway? And how many things do I have to watch in order to prepare for it? And he gave me my list and I did it and I watched it and loved all of it. Fast forward to now. The sequel to Hathaway has been released in Japan this year and will later release in the US this year. [02:05:35] Speaker B: And hilariously, we are forcing our friend of the Pod in real life, Austin Webster, to go through all of Zeta Gundam so we can show him. [02:05:43] Speaker A: So he can watch Hathaway. Yeah. [02:05:45] Speaker B: Which is so funny. [02:05:47] Speaker A: So anyway, needless to say, Alex has been there since the beginning of my Gundam journey and as the Godfather of sorts, has also influenced Logan's Gundam Journey and very pleased to have both him and Evan on for that episode. [02:06:05] Speaker B: I'm so excited for everyone to listen to the five hour episode that'll probably be. [02:06:10] Speaker A: Which will be recorded through the night as we try and contend with Alex's Australian schedule. [02:06:16] Speaker B: It could be longer than the actual trilogy itself. [02:06:20] Speaker A: Yeah, that might be because. [02:06:22] Speaker B: Yeah, the Zeta Gundam Compilation Trilogy is 2005's Heirs to the Stars and Lovers, two separate films. And 2006's Love is the Pulse of the Stars. Yeah. It is going to be a fascinating conversation because nobody has Alex seen these movies by chance. [02:06:40] Speaker A: He's watching them right now as we speak. [02:06:43] Speaker B: But because of this. Right? [02:06:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:06:44] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. So none of us had seen these movies prior to being a part of this episode. They were kind of a notorious conversation we would have about these because they are not fully unlike the compilation films of the original Gundam, which are considered. You can watch those and skip the entire series. [02:07:05] Speaker A: Yeah. Fairly accurate to the same basic plot and things. [02:07:09] Speaker B: Zeta Gundam does Not have that compilation trilogy does not have that same love. And we were like, that's very interesting. And especially the fact that all three of those films are together shorter than the trilogy for OG Gundam, which. We'll figure out how that changes and whatnot. [02:07:26] Speaker A: Actually, now that I think about it, I think maybe Alex has seen these before, but it's been many years because he said something about revisiting. [02:07:32] Speaker B: I was. I was lucky enough to get a actual physical copy of all three movies, which was. It was hard to get at a certain point. [02:07:38] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:07:39] Speaker B: Because I do not know if it's in circulation anymore, but where'd you get them? It was through Amazon, but I think they kind of go ebb and flow. They're also like, if you think probably [02:07:48] Speaker A: the print runs are probably few and far between. [02:07:50] Speaker B: I think I talked about this on our Gundam trilogy episode. But like Andy, once he realized I was getting into Gundam, any Gundam fan has to go to a new Gundam fan and ask for Gunpla. Be like, do you want to do Gunpla? And I was like, listen, I. I [02:08:05] Speaker A: will buy the discs. [02:08:06] Speaker B: That's too much. I will commit to trying to get all of the universal century and then I'll figure it out. And I'll tell you what, they don't make that cheap. Yeah, it's not fucking cheap at all. It's also hard as fuck to find for some of them. [02:08:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. My plastic crack requires assembly. Your plastic crack goes in a disc slot. [02:08:26] Speaker B: It requires green. [02:08:27] Speaker A: Yes. [02:08:27] Speaker B: It requires cash. [02:08:30] Speaker A: Well, unfortunately, I have also invested a lot of cash into my crack. [02:08:34] Speaker B: That is true. That is true. I've seen your closet. It's great every time, but yeah. So we're kicking off April 11th with the Zeta Gundam compilation trilogy with Evan and Alex. I cannot wait to have this conversation. First dual guest, first duel guest is going to be madness in the best way. New types will be discussed. I bet there's going to be some changes to Zeta that are going to be a fun conversation, but yeah. Thank you so much for listening. Tune in on April 11th when we discuss the Zeta Gundam compilation trilogy. And as always, I'm Logan Sosh. [02:09:12] Speaker A: And I'm Andy Carr. [02:09:13] Speaker B: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.