Episode 87: The Rise of Saulnier

[00:00:19] Logan: Hello, everyone, and welcome to Odd Trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Sowash. [00:00:23] Andy: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:00:23] Logan: And on Odd Trilogies, we take a trio of films, whether tied by cast and crew, thematic elements, numerical order, etc. and we discuss the good, the band, and the weird surrounding them. And today we're gonna talk about all six Alien films. I'm kidding. Surprisingly, if you just started with our last two episodes, this is not gonna be an Alien-themed episode. [00:00:43] Andy: It's actually the Predator franchise. [00:00:45] Logan: Yes, we're going right into the Predator franchise, and then we'll find another Alien franchise we can jump off of from there, and then we'll pretend like AVP is a trilogy just so we could get into it. No. Today, in honor of, you know, this month, we have a new release from an independent auteur director that's been around for quite some time, someone we both like and are excited to see get a new film out, because his career has been a pretty sporadic, timeline-wise. But I don't think anything to his own chagrin. I think it's just. It kind of happens, whatever hits the fire like passion, because most of his films are written by him. [00:01:21] Andy: Yeah. [00:01:22] Logan: But today we are talking about the Rise of Jeremy Saulnier, who is the independent director who started in the early to mid two thousands with his first film, Murder Party, from 2007, and then goes into his most popular of these three films we're talking about today, which is 2013's Blue Ruin and 2016's Green Room. And very similar to, like, talking about when we did the Rise of Jim Cummings a little while ago, was it like, two years ago? [00:01:50] Andy: Well, probably. [00:01:51] Logan: There's The Beta Test, I think was probably two years ago, but when we talked about Jim Cummings, as well as kind of how we talked about Jeff Nichols during the Nichols-Shannon trilogy, we're gonna be discussing a director that doesn't get as much love as they should, because they just don't make giant blockbuster films the same way as, like, you know, a gun or even like, a Bong Joon-ho situation. [00:02:12] Andy: Yeah. [00:02:12] Logan: In terms of a critical darling, but still makes some really interesting films, especially early on in his career, which we will definitely get into well. [00:02:20] Andy: And it's a similar kind of strata in terms of the level that he's working at, although Sonia is probably working at a slightly higher level, at least financially, than Cummings has so far, I. [00:02:33] Logan: Think, at this point. [00:02:34] Andy: But they're in a similar kind of position where they're not these household-name directors, they're not making whatever they want with however much money they want. They're very much working directors, you know, figuring out the next project from one to the next. And they're interesting. [00:02:56] Logan: Yeah. In honor of his most recent release, which is Netflix's Rebel Ridge, we decided it would be fun to tackle his first three films in his career, which, again, are Murder Party, Blue Ruin, and Green Room. And they are quite an eclectic trio. Like, if anything, about Saulnier, especially in his career. The only film I haven't seen at this point, as we were recording this, Rebel Ridge isn't out yet. But of his films that are released, I have not seen Hold the Dark. I don't think you have either. I've heard good things about it, but I haven't seen it because unfortunately, it was part of the Netflix Original Films whirlpool. Like, as soon as it released, I think I kind of got sucked in before any kind of real buzz could come out for it. But I've heard good things about hold the dark, and it looks like all the films he has so far have kind of unique genre wise, and are not right. You know, the only thing I think that would probably hold over to hopefully hold over to Rebel Ridge and maybe even Hold the Dark is a bit of a subversive kind of edge to it. [00:03:58] Andy: Yeah, well, kind of. It's his stuff is all a little bit. Even though it kind of jumps between genres, it's all a little bit like grindhousey, a little like violent, but not necessarily in, like a yemenite, like, super fun way. You know, it's like violent in a way that kind of hurts to watch. [00:04:19] Logan: Honestly, with this trilogy, I'm interested to. [00:04:21] Andy: See how that plays out in, like a more like a dad-movie action thriller. [00:04:26] Logan: Honestly, “grindhousey” is a good way to put it. Cause I would honestly say of these three films we're talking about today, Blue Ruin and Green Room are a hell of a double-bill. I watched them back to back and it was quite– [00:04:39] Andy: Oh, same night! [00:04:40] Logan: Yeah. I was like, let's just go for it. Because again, the best part about, again, we love a tight 90 on this show. And literally all three of these films are just above 90 minutes or below 90 minutes, which in the case of Murder Party, I believe it's 80. [00:04:54] Andy: Yeah, it sounds at most. [00:04:56] Logan: And to just go right into Murder Party, mainly because while both Andy and I will be completely upfront when it comes to Murder Party, we. It is an interesting topic to talk about surrounding the film in terms of what it's trying to do, what it's, you know, going for in terms of execution. But the actual film itself is, well, let's just say it's. It hasn't aged incredibly well. [00:05:22] Andy: Hasn't aged incredibly well. It's also, you know, it's, I'll say this, and this might come off as backhanded, or it might come off as, you know, respectful in its own way, but, like, Murder Party feels like a realistic, appropriate first movie. Like, first feature film. Like, I was like, when I watched it, I was like, oh. Cause normally I'll watch a movie and I'll read that. It's, oh, it's this director's first film ever. And it's like a really competent, polished, like, compelling production. And I'm like, that just, it doesn't feel right. It's like, how does somebody go from having never made a movie to making this in one go? Yeah, Murder Party feels more like if I tried to make a movie called, you know, no training or whatever. Sure. This is something that's kind of within the realm of possibility to produce and you can kind of see the, like, the, like, pluckiness behind it. [00:06:27] Logan: Oh, yeah, absolutely. [00:06:29] Andy: So, yeah, not like a great movie overall, but like you, I think it's an admirable first swing at the feature format. [00:06:37] Logan: Yeah, I feel like. Cause this film comes out three years after Shaun of the Dead. And this is not a zombie horror comedy, but this is in an era where Shaun of the Dead is like this horror comedy that, of course, horror fans are loving at that time. So if there is a unique horror comedy that is just, like, off the walls weird, it's gonna do well in terms of like, you know, popularity. And this movie didn't do well because, like, I don't think it got a full limit, like, wide release. [00:07:06] Andy: No, I mean it. [00:07:07] Logan: But, yeah, but in terms of, like, people talking, this movie has very much. I agree with you on all of your explanations for it. I also think it has peak midnight screening film festival energy. [00:07:19] Andy: Sure. [00:07:20] Logan: Where it's like, this film is like, almost would be roadshowed all over the midwest or like the east coast. [00:07:26] Andy: Well, and it was like, that was kind of, this movie's biggest exposure was on the, like, horror festival circuit. [00:07:32] Logan: And it makes perfect sense. This has. Especially for 2007. This is perfect for 2007 in terms of just like, that era of like, oh, this is a horror comedy. Yeah, and absolutely, I agree with you. It has the energy of a film that was either made on the budget of a ham sandwich or whatever was in the pockets of his friends or his, like, his pockets. [00:07:54] Andy: Yeah. Put it together. The people making the movie, pooling their money to make the movie. [00:08:00] Logan: Because usually when people think about, like, you know, first debuts nine times out of ten, there's, like, at least three, four, plenty of shorts beforehand. Definitely other work that goes into building up almost a, quote, unquote, credibility before you can even do your first directorial debut. I mean, like, there's also the case of, like, you know, we see it this year with, like, literally a few weeks ago with Blink twice where it's like, Zoe Kravitz has literally spent, like, years acting and being, you know, a popular movie star enabled to get enough clout to be like, okay, can I do this? [00:08:34] Andy: Yeah. [00:08:34] Logan: And it's. Watching this film, it's like, oh, no, this is a directorial debut. This is what, like, the. More expectations versus reality. [00:08:45] Andy: Yeah. There was no, like, you know, studio or even, like, fringes of the industry trial running prior to this. Although it is worth noting, like, Sonia and his friends, including make and Blair in all of these, had been making films, short films on their own for, like, two decades prior to this little, like, you know, basically home video type things. But, like, with the verve and, like, you know, appeal of aspiring filmmakers, if. [00:09:17] Logan: This movie was just a tad nastier, a tad gorier, and even a tad schlock here, this is prime trauma shit. [00:09:27] Andy: Yeah. [00:09:28] Logan: In terms of its premise, because the premise of the film is basically a man gets. A man randomly runs into an invitation on the street for a Murder Party, and he has no plans for Halloween, so he makes this cardboard knighthood out of thin air. [00:09:43] Andy: Yeah. [00:09:43] Logan: Goes to the location and finds out is an actual Murder Party, and he is, in fact, the one getting murdered by a bunch of art students that are trying to impress this guy who will apparently give them a grant if the artist version of the art. And it is, the premise alone, honestly, is one of those things where, like, when I first watched this years ago, that was like, oh, that sounds fun. Yeah, let's go for it. And to be honest, like, at the film's best, like, very early on, when you finally get to real, it is fun. The thing, though, is that for a trilogy that is mainly 90 to 95 minutes films, the 75 minutes film is hilariously, unfortunately, the longest. Yeah, it feels the longest. It is. It. The cast is a good. The cast is a fun job. Like, has a fun time with the film. [00:10:41] Andy: Like, yeah, I mean, they're all clearly. I mean, kind of like. Like, yeah, they're clearly close. And I mean, like, I guess you know the making of this film. It was like, I mean, the most of the movie shot in a warehouse. It was like shot on a shoestring budget in Brooklyn in like winter. And so they're all probably fucking freezing to death and like if you're there, you care and you really want to make this movie. [00:11:06] Logan: So like there's literally a whole chase sequence that is in the same room that the majority of the film takes place in. It's just a box maze. [00:11:13] Andy: Yeah. And that's just, it's clever. [00:11:15] Logan: That's fun. That's adorable. And not even in a condescending way, that is genuinely adorable. Just figured that out. [00:11:22] Andy: Yeah. [00:11:22] Logan: Having such a big wide open space and finding ways to make it feel like separate rooms to an extent. And it also is the fact that like, yeah, it's, it's. Everyone who's in this film is clearly in it for the love of the game. [00:11:36] Andy: Yeah. [00:11:36] Logan: And I mean, hell, about half of this cast to a degree shows up in Blue Ruin almost. So it's like to see them in this. I mean, for fuck's sakes. The first death in this movie is Sonnier's wife. [00:11:50] Andy: Oh yeah. [00:11:51] Logan: Yeah. Sky Skye, Sonny, who is a producer on this film and I believe a producer on all of Jeremy's stuff. [00:11:56] Andy: Okay. [00:11:57] Logan: Yeah. She is the cheerleader that dies first of the film, which is great. And then Lex and Alexander are actually both in Blue Ruin. And then of course our lord and savior making Blair with this sad face. God bless him. He's in all three of these films like you said. And he is arguably the best actor. [00:12:21] Andy: Yeah. And once you see these later two movies, it's like, well, duh, of course. He had all this the whole time. [00:12:28] Logan: I will say though, the guy that plays Alexander in this film is having too much fun. [00:12:34] Andy: Which one's Alex? [00:12:35] Logan: That is the guy that has like the drug, like the. [00:12:38] Andy: Yeah, yeah. [00:12:39] Logan: He's the guy that has the grant money, quote unquote. Right. [00:12:41] Andy: He's like ring leading. [00:12:43] Logan: He is such a pompous ass and does such a good job playing that, that he is, he is chewing up the scenery and there's barely any scenery to chew on. Like, it's like every time it's like to the degree where like that actor again shows up at Blue Ruin for like 5 seconds. When he shows up in Blue Ruin, he's just a normal guy and it's like, holy shit. Is that, is that the asshole from murder? [00:13:08] Andy: Yeah. Right. [00:13:08] Logan: And it's like. But in the film, it's they're all having a good time and they're all doing the best with very little. Yeah, I would argue that, like, the one person, even though everyone's very underdeveloped, the one person I wish was the most developed is our lead. Because there's very little in terms of what his arc is in the film, even though he technically has one. [00:13:29] Andy: Yeah. And he's really not even, like, a. You know, because I could see keeping him as a blank slate to let him be, like, a vessel for the viewer. But, like, it's really not even that because there will be long, like, swaths of this. Of the movie where we're just kind of hanging out with all the. The murder artists. [00:13:48] Logan: Yes. [00:13:49] Andy: And he's just, like, off screen. Like, not. He has nothing to do because he's tied up and gagged. Like, it's. Yeah, you kind of forget. Oh, yeah, there's, like, a victim at the middle of all this. [00:13:58] Logan: But there's some good stuff in terms of, like, one of the things that I think of Asanya when I tell people they should definitely check out. You know, just his work in general is the fact that he. He's very at his best using subversive qualities to make pretty standard genre stuff interesting. Like, the fact that it's like, you know, we'll talk about with Blue Ruin and Green Room, where it's like both those films are a drama and thriller, respectively. But there's definitely more going on than just the standard premise of what they end up being. And with Murder Party as a horror comedy is standard, straightforward. But the subversive element comes into play with Murder Party. The fact that it's a bunch of. Of art students who are so up their own asses and don't know, they don't. They clearly don't want to kill anybody, but they'll do it for the right monetary reasons. And yet. [00:14:49] Andy: Yeah, I mean, they're just like, it is a big fuck you to like art students, and it's like, oh, yeah. You know, your ego is so fucking big, you'll fucking kill people for art. [00:15:00] Logan: They would rather kill each other than kill the guy they said they all were gonna kill. And it's funny. It's funny when it gets to that point of, like, when everyone starts turning on one another to a degree or like, it just. Yeah, there's very little to talk about it because it's just. Again, it's 75 minutes. It's straightforward. Yeah, it's got. Its highs are fun, but, like, arguably, it is very much a low budget first film in a director's filmography that is more interesting as a stepping stone. Yeah. Rather than an actual film. [00:15:33] Andy: Yeah. [00:15:34] Logan: It is a film that I think most people who watch it, even if you really do enjoy it, I feel like we'll kind of just kind of like be forgotten in your brain for a while. [00:15:42] Andy: Yeah. I mean, I think the poster is. [00:15:44] Logan: Probably the coolest part about. I like the poster. [00:15:48] Andy: Yeah. I mean, I think you're right that this is like, this is a like indie festival, like midnight screening hit. Because I like especially at those kinds of things, you know, horror festivals and stuff. Horror nuts and like splatterpunks and stuff are like the opposite of pretentious. They're the opposite. [00:16:08] Logan: Oh, yeah. [00:16:09] Andy: Snobby about anything. You know, they, most of the movies they watch are like, you know, trash. Yeah, it's trash. [00:16:17] Logan: It is trash. [00:16:18] Andy: This movie being, you know, basically another piece of horror trash and making a pointed comment about like stuffy artists and things like that, you can just see that going, you know, the hooting and hollering going on at like, you know, loosey goosey horror festivals. So it's like, it's a really smart pairing. It's fun. Even if like the movie itself is not doing anything like especially crazy. [00:16:45] Logan: Yeah. I could definitely see a midnight screening of this film back in the two. Thousands of just people losing their mind at like the whole like gore fest room that happens. And like with the chainsaw and then arguably like when they open the door and everyone thinks it's like just super realistic art and everyone's just a really good actor. Yeah. It's all blood and dead bodies and. Yeah, it is. It is, I think of worth a watch if you're a fan of Sonny's work and you want to see where he started off at because I think most people I've talked to that have seen this movie are either because of Blue Ruin. Yeah, mainly Blue Ruin, I think because usually what happens is either you start at Blue Ruin and you go backwards, which is only one film. [00:17:29] Andy: Yeah. [00:17:29] Logan: Or if you are a huge fan of Green Room, you do that as well where it's like, oh, he did Blue Ruin, which I kind of heard about, and then going to Murder Party. I don't think I've ever met anyone who was a fan of Blue Ruin or Green Room because of Murder Party. [00:17:42] Andy: Like it's, yeah, I mean, it would be a pretty stark contrast. Yeah. Shift in terms of taste. [00:17:49] Logan: Yes. [00:17:50] Andy: If like, if Murder Party really grabbed you, I wouldn't think that Blue Ruin would grab you. [00:17:55] Logan: Yeah. I mean, there's plenty of trauma that could, you know, hide you over if you're looking for something that's, like, even more in that horror trash, but even turned on its head. And it's no surprise that the start of Sonia's career of this very trashy but fun film with me and Blaire is now at a point where Meiken Blair is literally making an adaptation remake of Tromas the toxic avenger. [00:18:19] Andy: Yeah. [00:18:20] Logan: That he's writing and directing with Peter Dinklage as the toxic Avenger. Like, it is very, like, very much. These are guys that love the work, and I think very much have more of the directors we kind of have talked about in our rise up series. Maybe more gun sensibilities, like. But, like, not as edgy. I will give it that early. James Gunn is very edgy. [00:18:44] Andy: Yeah. [00:18:44] Logan: But I will say yes, and I will say in Murder Party, there are some conversations where it's like, I understand what the point is in this film, but I don't think you need this. [00:18:55] Andy: Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:55] Logan: It's a very much. When it starts, it's very slow start, but an interesting premise, and then it kind of bows in the middle when you've been in the warehouse for, like. [00:19:05] Andy: 30 minutes, and they're just, like, talking in a circle, and then when they. [00:19:09] Logan: Finally do, like, the finale, it's a little bit more exciting, and it leads to the end, which is basically just the main character finally grows a spine and tells his cat to get out of his seat. [00:19:20] Andy: Right. [00:19:20] Logan: Which is funny. I love the fact that he just, of all the coward or kind of quote unquote weaker characters, we'll get in a sonier film. It's just funny that his first protagonist is just this pushover meter maid, basically. That is just like, it's too nice to his mean cat. And then at the very end, it's just like, get the fuck out of my chair. [00:19:42] Andy: Yeah, I've had enough. [00:19:43] Logan: Yeah. And then he's eating popcorn with bloody hands. [00:19:46] Andy: Yeah. [00:19:46] Logan: Which is just like. It is a decent time if you just want to see where Sonia came from. But at the same time, if there's any film in his filmography, I'd probably say is fine to skip. Probably this one. [00:20:01] Andy: Yeah. Cause really, like, his big opening home run is Blue Ruin. Yeah. [00:20:10] Logan: Yeah. Which is why we're trying to get to Blue Ruin as fast as possible, because I I would imagine you would say Blue Ruin is the best of these three. [00:20:17] Andy: Yeah, yeah. I would absolutely say. [00:20:19] Logan: I would probably say I. I would probably prefer Green Room just a little bit more, but not because Blue Ruins bad. Blue Ruin is fucking good. And it genuinely is the film that. Honestly, I think this is the film that mainly got us to both mean, like, oh, yeah, let's do this trilogy. Because this film. Was this your introduction to him? Was it Green Room? [00:20:42] Andy: Green Room was my first. I didn't even. When I saw. When I saw Blue Ruin, like, the first time. Cause this is my second time watching it. When I saw it the first time a few years ago, I didn't even realize that they were the same director. [00:20:56] Logan: Oh, really? [00:20:56] Andy: Okay. I saw Green Room. I don't think I saw it when it released, but I saw it within a year or two of its release and then just watched Blue Ruin a couple years ago just on a kick. [00:21:07] Logan: Yeah. And I mean, honestly, it is. I think most people were kind of in that. I think, honestly, when it comes to Blue Ruin now, like, is Blue Ruin had a big of a bump when it first came out in 2013 in terms of just like, word of mouth. Have you heard about this movie? [00:21:21] Andy: Yeah. And I mean, it was kind of a. It was a canned darling, too. I don't know that it won a bunch of awards, but, like, it was talked about a lot. [00:21:30] Logan: Yeah. Because I got a lot of press from Cannes. The big thing surrounding Blue Ruin is the thing that I think also surrounds Green Room, but mainly Blue Ruin is. Is that it's a revenge drama that is a lot more subversive than you'd expect. It is a revenge drama about a. About a basically in homeless vagrant. [00:21:49] Andy: Yeah. [00:21:50] Logan: Like a homeless man who finds out that the man who killed his parents is now walking free from prison after 20 years. 15, I think closer to like 15, I think, timeline wise. And he decides that he's going to take it upon himself to get revenge on his parents for his parents. And it doesn't go the way you would think because he is not. The best part about. I think both this as well as Green Room, in a way, is that we know how films like this are supposed to go. [00:22:21] Andy: Yeah. [00:22:22] Logan: We've seen plenty of revenge dramas. We've seen plenty of, like, you know, thrillers in a way. But the way that Sonnier just is like, what are we just more. Why don't we just a little bit more realistic. [00:22:33] Andy: Yeah. [00:22:34] Logan: Honest with each other about, like, normally. [00:22:37] Andy: A movie like this. The. The lead is some muscle bound chip on his shoulder type, like Rambo. Just looking at him, you're like, I would not fuck with that. Guy. What Sonia is doing here is basically like, okay, but, like, everybody has vengeful impulses. What if the guy who decided he wanted revenge is just a schlubby dude? [00:23:01] Logan: Yeah. It's a guy that can't. [00:23:02] Andy: A guy with literally nothing. [00:23:04] Logan: He has a blue and ruined Pontiac. Wink, wink, Blue Ruin. That is his, I believe it's canonically his parents car. It's never said in the film, his character. Yeah, but there's a shot early on in the film where you see bullet holes in the blue car in the Pontiac, and then it's like, very clearly this was the car that probably, you know, his parents got shot in. Which makes it even more sad when you realize that that's, like, his house. It sleeps out of that car from time. But, yeah, it's like you're watching someone who is, like, it's not outright saying that this is a guy that's seen a bunch of revenge films. This should be easy. But it's clearly almost like you're watching a guy who should be like, yeah, you get a gun, you point it to someone's head, and you pull the trigger. It should be easy, right? Well, if you have the money, if you have the time, if you are prepared enough, maybe. But in his mind, this is a. [00:24:01] Andy: Guy who has no preparation, no understanding of how to go about it. [00:24:05] Logan: But then again, he still has some qualities to him, some almost sneakish, roguish qualities. Yeah, that is very fascinating when probably. [00:24:15] Andy: Acquired from life as a nomad. [00:24:17] Logan: Absolutely. [00:24:18] Andy: Scavenging and scouring the earth again, because. [00:24:20] Logan: That'S another thing, too, is like, it is also sonny playing with the idea of, like, a revenge drama that is also like a john. You would get like a John Rambo type as, like, this outland, like snowman, right? [00:24:33] Andy: Yeah. [00:24:33] Logan: Like, just a stranger that walks into town and someone does something wrong by him and then, of course, goes to town, almost kind of what rebel Ridge sure looks like, which I'm hoping, gosh, I'm excited to see with that if that is just as straightforward as it looks or if there's more subversive quality to that as well. But, like, it is fascinating to be, like, we are doing that. We're gonna have. We're gonna have a nomad who's got nothing to lose, and he's gonna get revenge on his parent for his parents. But it's making Blair. Yeah, it is a schlubby, scruffy Macon Blair that is wearing the shirt he slept in, like, last week. [00:25:08] Andy: Yeah, it's the guy who works in HR at your office and literally can't. [00:25:13] Logan: Does not have enough money to buy a gun. So it's basically the tiniest knife any man. It's like. It's clearly a knife that's from a kitchen set. So it's implied almost that he probably stole that or. [00:25:25] Andy: Yeah. [00:25:26] Logan: And it's just, like, dug it out. [00:25:27] Andy: Of a trash can. [00:25:27] Logan: The first ten to 15 minutes are just, like, so little dialogue. And it's so great because once we get to a point in the film where Macon has to do more actual, like, do more, you know, vocal acting rather than just physical, you know, emotional acting, it's very much like even his character has at one point say, I'm not used to talking this much. [00:25:49] Andy: Yeah, it is a really interesting, like, it gives you that perspective into that lifestyle that he's living where it's like he lives on the fringe of society. He doesn't engage directly with a lot because what's he doing? He's digging through trash. He's living in parking lots. [00:26:07] Logan: Yeah. [00:26:08] Andy: He's probably stealing stuff. [00:26:11] Logan: I don't think he's living at Coney island. But it's like a type of boardwalk situation. [00:26:16] Andy: And so it's like, yeah, clearly this is a dude who's, like, spends his time trying to avoid engaging with people. [00:26:24] Logan: Yeah. [00:26:24] Andy: And then now he's forced to. [00:26:26] Logan: Yeah, it's fascinating to a film about a man who's given up and is willing to lose it all to revenge his parents, only to find out, wait, it's not just me in this world. There are other people in this life that I care about or, you know, that I fucked up. Like, it's basically gets to a point where it's, like, another great part about this film is, like, there are beats in a film like this where you'd expect it to get to a point where it's like, oh, he's gonna. He's gonna hold the, you know, the revelation that he actually killed this guy from his sister until, like, you know, the 45 minutes mark or something like that brings it up in a fucking restaurant. [00:27:04] Andy: Yeah. [00:27:05] Logan: In, like, a fast food restaurant. And it's just, again, it works perfectly for that character because that character just is like, I don't like talking. There's not much to talk about. I. I'm only here because I did something bad. [00:27:19] Andy: Yeah. Everything is incredibly matter of fact to Dwight and also completely overwhelming. [00:27:25] Logan: Yeah. [00:27:25] Andy: Like, absolutely. He's like, well, I. I gotta kill these people. Cause they killed my parents. But also, what the fuck am I doing? [00:27:34] Logan: Yeah, it's again, the, the whole, the initial scene of him getting revenge for his parents, who, what he thinks is getting revenge parents when he kills Wade Junior. [00:27:44] Andy: Yeah. Who's the guy who just got out of prison. [00:27:47] Logan: Yes. And played by the actor. [00:27:49] Andy: Not really. Spoiler. This happens in the first, like, 20 minutes of the movie. [00:27:53] Logan: He basically. Yeah, he trails the family that picks him up from prison. He, they go to a bar. He finds a way to sneak into said bar without anyone seeing him. And then they have a tussle. [00:28:03] Andy: Hides in the bathroom. [00:28:04] Logan: Yep. Hides in the bathroom, knifes him. They have a tussle? Yeah. He stabs him in the head. And all hell breaks loose from there, basically, for this guy, because in the process of fighting, he drops his car keys. And so when he gets to his car, he can't move his car. And so the car that he stabbed his knife with, which also the blowback of the tire, clearly led the knife at a certain point, I think, to slice him in a way. Cause, like, he's got a sliced hand. [00:28:32] Andy: Yeah. [00:28:33] Logan: And then he has to take that car and drive away. And that car has a kid in it. [00:28:38] Andy: Oh, God. Yeah. And it's just a limo. [00:28:41] Logan: It is a limo. Yeah. And the fact that the kid just gets out and just like, hey, just so you know, I don't think he did it. And then runs away. [00:28:50] Andy: Yeah. It's really, it's, I mean, the whole movie, the tone of it is very, it's, I mean, I think what Sony is going for is like that naturalistic awkwardness. Everything that happens is incredibly uncomfortable in a social way. It's like things just come and go. People appear and say something you don't expect them to say awkwardly and then leave, and you're left with, well, what do I do with that? [00:29:19] Logan: It's the energy of like, oh, we have to talk because we're in front of one another, and then halfway through conversation, it's like, I don't want to talk anymore. And then they just stop. [00:29:29] Andy: I also just love it from a character standpoint, how Sonye kind of develops Dwight through the interactions he has with other people. [00:29:38] Logan: Absolutely. [00:29:39] Andy: You learn from his sister basically. Like, its pretty much implied theres no reason Dwight needs to be a homeless vagrant in Delaware. Like, he pretty much threw his life away after his parents died, probably just because he didnt know how to deal with it. Yeah, he went and lived out in the boonies, gave up everything, didn't tell anybody. Like, just up and left and kind of left a lot of people wondering. [00:30:07] Logan: There's even a scene in the film where Dwight admits that he saw his sister, like, two years back and didn't say anything to her because he just was ashamed. Yeah, he just looked like shit. [00:30:18] Andy: And his sister is, like, understandably pissed that he, you know, she's like, he's my brother. So I'm, you know, it's somewhat comforting to see him, but it's also like, what the fuck, dude? Like, yeah, where have you been? Why did you do all that? [00:30:31] Logan: He shows up again. It's just classic Dwight shit. Where it's just like, his sister is living a normal life, I believe, as a single mother, the way that it's kind of implied because there's a sitter. There's no real talks about a father in the mix. If there was one, I don't know. But, like, clearly she's a working woman that is, like, constantly busy, has plans, has a schedule and everything. And then she turns and then just sees her brother poking out, like, Michael Myers in the bushes. [00:31:00] Andy: Yeah. [00:31:01] Logan: And just, like, stops everything to go get food with him and then just gets pulled into some bullshit. That is just frustrating. [00:31:10] Andy: Okay. I mean, from her perspective, it's like her brother disappeared from her life and from the real world for years. Didn't say anything, didn't communicate, didn't let her know where he was going, and comes back and dumps on her. The fact that he has started a blood feud by murdering someone, and she's like, what do we do with this? Why would you do that? [00:31:36] Logan: But what's great, too, is his sister is not mad at him for doing that. She's mad at him. [00:31:44] Andy: I got the read she was mad. Cause it was stupid. Like, she's. She's not, like, you know, condemning his action. She's just like, what? Like, now you've brought this to my front door. I have a child. [00:31:55] Logan: Like, well, that was the thing, too, is like, they don't realize that until Dwight realizes. Because he left the car there. [00:32:02] Andy: Yeah. [00:32:03] Logan: The car is in his sister's name. [00:32:04] Andy: Yeah. [00:32:05] Logan: Which, again, is another aspect. The fact that he just had their parents car. That has been his sister's name this whole time. [00:32:10] Andy: Well, and I think the sister lives in their parents house. [00:32:13] Logan: Yes. Yes. Which is. I was wondering that, too, while watching. But, yeah, I mean, the thing that this is so great about the film, too, is, like, the. The interactions that Dwight has with people that isn't. That aren't. People that want to kill him are usually interactions that basically end up being at a certain point. Like, even his set out loud by an old high school buddy is like, listen, like, I understand fighting for your family and trying to get, you know, do what's right for something that was wrong to you. But I'm gonna be honest. This is ugly. I don't know if I could do. It's like, basically, it's like, I understand. I don't think I could do that. And I don't know if you really should have. And I really like that conversation. The fact where it's like the first thing his sister says when she tells, when he tells her about that is that she goes, good fucking riddance. And then when Dwight realizes, oh, shit, I really fucked up and left my car there, that's when she gets incredibly pissed and leads to, I think one of the best lines in the entire film is basically when Dwight tells her to leave and she goes, you know, I'm. I think she, at certain point, she goes, I'm not mad at you that you did it. I'm just mad at how weak you are. And that just drives away, and it's like, it's true. Like, the fact that, like, getting revenge in that work. Yeah. We, like you said, we all have that kind of, you know, that idea that if something like that happened to us, we would have. [00:33:38] Andy: Want to get our own. Yeah. [00:33:40] Logan: But, like, wouldn't that in some way be inherently weak to give in to something that is clearly not gonna make that pain go away? [00:33:49] Andy: Yeah. [00:33:49] Logan: Clearly not gonna help anyway. Yes. [00:33:52] Andy: I mean, from a moral perspective. [00:33:54] Logan: Very fascinating. Yeah. [00:33:55] Andy: Yeah. That weakness. And also, like, kind of just the. The silliness of it. Like, what? Kind of, like a. What makes you think you are capable of even attempting this? You know, kind of like the, you know, well, if you're gonna do it, you better be damn sure that you can. That you know how to do it. And it's like the fact that Dwight's just this fucking dude who is awkward around people, doesn't know how to use any weapons of any kind, has no social skills. And it's like, dude, what made you think you were gonna be able to pull this off? [00:34:36] Logan: My God. And it leads to some genuinely wonderful moments of just Dwight being in over his head the entire time but slowly learning with each interaction and each scene, like, near death experience. Getting to a point where when the finale hits. Gosh, there's just a look he gives at the camera at one point in the finale where it's just like, oh, no, he's ready. He's. He's now ready for this. [00:35:01] Andy: Yeah. [00:35:02] Logan: And then of course, the best part about the film too is like his friend who's played by the actor's name escapes me. [00:35:11] Andy: Are you talking about the guy who plays Ben? Like his high school friend Devon Rat. [00:35:14] Logan: Ray, who is most people would know is buzz. [00:35:17] Andy: Yeah. [00:35:17] Logan: From home alone one and home alone two. Yeah, he's great in the movie. [00:35:22] Andy: Yeah, he's awesome. [00:35:23] Logan: And he's also inspired by a real person that Sonny a knows from high school. [00:35:28] Andy: Okay. [00:35:29] Logan: And apparently I think he even called him and even like, gave him a bit of the script to make sure that it's like that the Ben in the film has the same values as well as the same kind of gun protection. Like, it's like. Cause there's a whole scene of just like Ben going through all the guns he has. [00:35:45] Andy: Yeah. [00:35:45] Logan: In the most casual way possible, but very much so. Like, again, for a film that's about revenge and clearly is gonna have some shootouts and some guns involved. A lot of great gun safety moments in this movie. Yeah, I really did appreciate that. [00:36:01] Andy: Ben is kind of that cookie cutter, like Second Amendment, hobbyist, casual apocalypse preparer type who like, you know, clearly has like, you know, probably a lot of. I mean, is it said that he served in the military? He said that, yeah. [00:36:21] Logan: And then he was in Japan. [00:36:22] Andy: So it's like clear that he has this kind of deep ingrained, like protective instinct and also, you know, obviously like a love for his country and his countrymen, but also has this kind of like, you know, well, when the world inevitably goes to shit, I'm gonna be the guy who's ready for it. And. [00:36:42] Logan: Yeah, no, for sure. [00:36:43] Andy: And making Blair's Dwight. Dwight is like, well, okay, I don't know if I am into all that, but like, I just need this guy to help me out because I'm in a bind here. [00:36:56] Logan: Yeah. What's also great too is when Dwight is looking for him, he thinks that he's in a metal band when he's just a bartender at a bar for like, for like a metal bar, kind of like a dive. And it's just fun again. Yeah, it's. This is the film. But I think, like, showing people that the one thing I hope that people get out of it besides, like, you know, look for sonier when you see him, especially with his work, especially with, you know, how sporadic it can be at times, years between each project. But it's also like when you see make and Blair, you. You clap. You clap internally. You make sure that man, you know, that you respect that man. Because making Blair and Blue Ruin is just holds this film together in a way that makes it so much more impactful as he's going through this revenge story that is arguably, watching a man think that he was on the fringe of society and that no one cared about him or that he just was going to scorch earth it until the end. Arguably have to do that just to get around the mistakes he's made. [00:38:01] Andy: Yeah. Yeah. [00:38:02] Logan: Like, I, again, there is a part of me that I would love more stuff with Sam because Sam is not a huge part of the movie. I mean, it's the Dwight show for the entire time. Sam's a big part of why he's doing this, because he wants to make sure that she is safe as well as his nieces are safe. [00:38:19] Andy: Yeah. [00:38:19] Logan: But honestly, I think some of the best character stuff is mainly with Ben. [00:38:25] Andy: Right. [00:38:26] Logan: And I love the whole thing about the stripper and the Polaroid. There's a Polaroid strip club. And Dwight's whole thing is, like, when Ben thinks about it, Ben thinks about it in a fun, like, remember when we were kids and we were stupid? Well, Dwight again thinks of it as, like, that is another piece of me that someone is reminded of, and I don't want anyone to be reminded of me after what I'm done. [00:38:49] Andy: Yeah. [00:38:50] Logan: And it's just fascinating how that's incredibly so sad. [00:38:54] Andy: It's so sad. [00:38:55] Logan: And it's amplified just by how make Blair looks. [00:39:00] Andy: Yeah. He's just so weighed down because he's. [00:39:03] Logan: Not even scruffy for the whole film. He's scruffy for, like, the first film. First part of the film. And then he cleans up to say. [00:39:09] Andy: He still just looks so downtrodden. [00:39:12] Logan: He just, like, at a certain point, I think he even thinks about sleeping in a closet instead of sleeping in a bed. And. But again, it's fascinating even though he is, like, clearly in over his head because he's going up against a family that is not only outweigh, like, outnumber him, like, five to one, they also are hunters, so. [00:39:34] Andy: Yeah. Like, they're. They actually know how to kill. [00:39:36] Logan: Yeah. And they also have an array of weapons. They have crossbows, they have rifles, they have pistols, shotgun. [00:39:42] Andy: They have vehicles. They have each other. [00:39:45] Logan: And he is basically working with MacGyver level or, like, trying to be a MacGyver and trying to figure out how the fuck to make this work. [00:39:53] Andy: Yeah. [00:39:54] Logan: And to be honest, just the little, you know, kind of intricacies of, like, the intelligence surrounding having the water running, having the light turned on and hiding in the room downstairs while they all go upstairs, getting the key to the Pontiac is like, there's a great moment where a bunch of the. I don't even know what the family's name is, but I know it's Big Wade's family. When Big Wade's family shows up in his blue Pontiac Cleland. [00:40:21] Andy: I think that's the family Cleland. [00:40:22] Logan: Yes. God bless. When the Cleveland family show up to Sam's place after Sam has left and Dwight's waiting for them, just that moment of his brain being like, once they all get out of the blue Pontiac, I'm just gonna take the spare key. Which, again, Sony air is phenomenal throughout the film. Just the little tidbits of information that get dropped throughout in terms of just, like, pieces here and there. Don't forget this. Don't forget that. Just his intuitiveness with certain aspects as well as just, like, the big thing about I think that is to Dwight's advantage for the entire film is the fact that that man can wait. [00:41:02] Andy: Yeah. [00:41:02] Logan: That man, he's got all the time in the world. He knows that he's in the right spot. It's like he has an intuitiveness of knowing that, like, this is the right spot that I need to be in now. I just have to wait. He's got a stillness that is, like, hilariously perfect for hunting, even though he's not a hunter. But it leads to moments where you just, like, are mainly staying with him, just being silent and sad and figuring out what to do. And it is just a film that even though this is my second time seeing it all the way through, it is still, like, re watching it. It's like each time a new revelation is dropped or a new moment happens, it just keeps amping up the story so much more interesting in interesting fashion, all the way to a finale, which is just, like, just a great culmination of everything to that point. It's genuinely intense. It's well done. It's great drama wise, and ties everything up in a way that I think is like, you couldn't. I don't know how you could get more satisfying than that for this type of film. [00:42:11] Andy: Yeah. It just all the. It all feels so inevitable. Yeah. And yet, in a way that, like, you're still on your toes as it's happening and just kind of like. I mean, I think it commits in its finale to its whole kind of aesthetic of, like, what if? A revenge movie, but extremely realistic about what we're actually capable of as human beings. [00:42:40] Logan: And it's the fact that, like, the person that takes him out is the one you wouldn't expect it to be. It'd be the one. It's the one in the Cleland family that is clearly the least hunter and the least involved. The least. But also the only one, I think, to actually talk to Dwight in a non aggressive way. [00:42:59] Andy: Yeah. To have any, like. Yeah. [00:43:01] Logan: And it also is implied, I think, another thing about the film that is implied that the guy that shoots Dwight may be his half brother. There's a. There's a. There's a. There's a line where it's like he's got my dad's eyes or something like that, which is just fucking wild to have that out just at the random moment. But it still works incredibly well because that actor who also shows up in Green Room, does a really good job as the youngest of the Cleveland family. And it's also just the fact that, like, at a certain point, you realize that it's basically a man fighting to protect his family, but also has the selfishness of wanting to explain why he's doing this over a family that does not fucking care why he's doing it or, honestly, why they are doing it. Other than you killed one of our own. This is not a two versus two. There's no evans to this. Yeah. [00:43:55] Andy: To the. We're gonna take you out to the Cleland family. It's like you started it. You know? This is. You drew the line and killed our family. [00:44:03] Logan: I get in a very Steinbeck way when you find out that the reason why this all started is because Dwight's dad slept with the Cleveland matriarch. [00:44:13] Andy: Yeah. [00:44:13] Logan: And basically, big Wade is the reason why they're dead. But, like, big Wade died of cancer years. I mean, I think. Because I think it's 93 is when the double murder happens. [00:44:26] Andy: Yeah. [00:44:26] Logan: I think big Wade dies in 99. So it's like, way into Wade Junior being in prison. It's like the fact that. I think it's Teddy, the one Cleveland, that's stuck in the trunk for the majority. The fact that he's like, you know, it doesn't even matter at this. You can never get your revenge because the man that did it watched all of his favorite tv shows, drank everything he wanted to do, smoked, didn't get to fuck, but at least got to do all the other things that he wanted to do. And just basically is rubbing in Dwight's face is like, you literally just started a fight with us against. To take out someone that has been dead for over a decade. [00:45:01] Andy: Yeah. [00:45:01] Logan: And that is just like, that is just in. For other films, they would use that as like an absolute bomb. But in this film, it's just like, it's not even that surprising because it's like, this is a film that is clearly like, well, of course this is surprising. He wasn't expecting anything. [00:45:19] Andy: Yeah, well. [00:45:20] Logan: And all just kind of rolling downhill. [00:45:22] Andy: Yeah. And Dwight's also just at the point of like, well, I'm gonna do this anyway. I'm gonna kill everybody anyway. [00:45:29] Logan: At this point, it's like, yeah, I just gotta do it. And my gosh, it is. It's such a good time. And hilariously saying that it's a good time while still being a very serious revenge drama, but it's still entertaining to watch. Just the little, like you said, little awkward moments that are kind of funny. [00:45:48] Andy: Yeah, I think this movie is. Yeah. [00:45:50] Logan: I mean, anytime Dwight is just awkwardly trying to introduce himself to somebody in an alleyway. [00:45:55] Andy: Yeah. [00:45:55] Logan: Just looking very creepy. But it's clearly a man who just doesn't know how to be like, hey. Hey, what's up? [00:46:02] Andy: Yeah. He doesn't know how to engage with people. [00:46:04] Logan: Yeah. And I love how that also leads later on the film, him just being more brutally honest with, like, with Ben. He's like, listen, this is not like a reunion. I'm genuinely asking a favor from you, and you should not expect to get it back from me if you have any issue. I understand. [00:46:21] Andy: Yeah. [00:46:22] Logan: And he runs, and thankfully for Dwight, he runs into some of the nicest, more experienced people that can actually help a little bit in terms of certain situations with this. With him. [00:46:31] Andy: Yeah. [00:46:31] Logan: Like his sister being able to help him, I think, feel more guilt about doing the act, about how it kind of affects her life as well as just affects the fact that, you know, he can be as much of an almost just like, I don't belong in this world. I'm just, you know, I'm fucking useless. He can have a pity party for himself all he wants. His actions affect the rest of his remaining family. [00:46:57] Andy: Yeah. [00:46:57] Logan: And he needs to understand that, which is why it leads to, like, later film having so much more of a. Of an intent. Because, like, once that. Once that kill happens in the bathroom early on, it does have that energy for a little while of like, well, what do we do now and then? Now that he has. He has at least a goal, which is make sure my sister can get out of this alive, even though she is not a active part of the film for the most part. [00:47:24] Andy: Yeah. [00:47:25] Logan: It's still great to have that as well as Ben being the one being like, dude, you couldn't even shoot him from that far away and be able to give him, like, the tools necessary to. To be like, listen, I don't. If it wasn't because it was you and what you've been through. Cause, like, again, too. What I love about Ben is, like, clearly with Sam, there's that dichotomy of, you have the one kid who has dealt with a trauma and hasn't been able to deal with it at all for decades, and then you have the other child who has had to. Who's had to just accept the fact that he's never gonna have their parents back. It was a tragedy that those. That the people who did it basically owned a limousine company that are, like, fucking plastered all over billboards. And she even says, like, I see their fucking every time I see a limousine. It makes me sick. [00:48:15] Andy: Yeah. [00:48:15] Logan: But she's had to just buckle down and live her life in her mind, I would imagine, to a degree, for her parents. Yeah, well, as Dwight is in the mindset of how do I live for my parents when, you know, the thing is, like, you just. You should not do this. [00:48:32] Andy: Like, yeah, I mean, he. Yeah, he definitely let his kind of his trauma or his grief or whatever, completely stunt him and threw his life away instead of, yeah. Making something. [00:48:44] Logan: He does get a bad. He does get quite a badass moment in the finale and has a badass line that I still love, which is, I just want you to know that any death that happens from this point forward as well as any death before this is. It was all because of your father. It's like, all because of him. And there's. There's. It's such. Considering for the majority of the film, there is a shakiness in his mindset. It was coming from the fact that in that moment, he's going, I just want to let you know, you can't fucking fight me on this. This is all because your dad. Yeah, and he's gonna pay. It's like. And you're gonna pay if you want to fight. And it is like, oh, my gosh. Megan Blair again, I wouldn't even say is, like, in the Bob Odenkirk of, like, action stars in terms of unassuming. [00:49:28] Andy: No, not. [00:49:28] Logan: He couldn't even be that. Like. [00:49:30] Andy: No, because Bob Odenkirk became that for that for nobody. [00:49:34] Logan: But you know what I mean? Where it's like, you don't look at making Blair. There are people you look at where you're like, I don't think that guy could be an action star maybe. I don't know. And then make. And Blair, I think, is three steps below that where it's like, this is a man that you are going to see some great dramatic performances is from. But I don't know if you're gonna ever see that man shoot someone else with a gun. [00:49:53] Andy: Yeah. And then four times. [00:49:55] Logan: Yeah. And he gets a. Gets a rad. He gets a rad. Rough kill at the end of this film. [00:50:00] Andy: Yeah. [00:50:01] Logan: And also is at the end of his. I mean, arguably his biggest downfall is the fact that he just wanted them to understand when in reality, at a certain point, the understanding, the context doesn't matter. [00:50:13] Andy: Yeah. [00:50:14] Logan: Which is, again, a great aspect of it, too, with revenge, where it's like, revenge is a cycle of violence where at a certain point, context can only cover so little of it. [00:50:24] Andy: Yeah. [00:50:24] Logan: Especially if the bloodshed has only gotten worse since then. But, yeah, I mean, Blue Ruin is just so fucking good. [00:50:33] Andy: Yeah. It's also worth noting how fucking good the movie looks. [00:50:37] Logan: Oh, my God. Yeah. [00:50:39] Andy: I think. I mean, it's night and day from. [00:50:42] Logan: Murder Party to Blue Ruin. [00:50:44] Andy: Yeah. And the interesting thing I didn't realize until I saw an interview with Sonya talking about it that, like. So basically, he made Murder Party in hopes that, like, okay, it would hit the festivals and, like, get him kind of a kickstart to, you know, make his next thing. And it really didn't. He didn't get, like, any traction out of that movie, aside from a short festival run. So he just started, like, working at a lower level than director in and around Hollywood and basically became a cinematographer for a bunch of different projects, like, short films and stuff. And so just really, like, got, you know, earned his stripes and, you know, then he became kind of naturally way more prepared as a director just by, like, actually doing the jobs he needed to do. [00:51:36] Logan: And you can tell the six year gap between Murder Party and Blue Ruin is so staggering. [00:51:41] Andy: Yeah. [00:51:41] Logan: On every level. And, like, technical the score. Because the thing with Murder Party two is, like, that score in Murder Party is rough. [00:51:48] Andy: Yeah. [00:51:49] Logan: Because, again, what money did they have, really, to do it? But with Blue Ruin, it's like, the score is very subtle. It's very somber. It handles. It is incredible when it's used, but it's used pretty sparingly because, again, it's a small film and just. Yeah, the color, the. The lighting, everything about Blue Ruin is just like, damn this. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me. And for most people, it is probably myself for the longest time thinking this was his directorial debut. [00:52:17] Andy: Yeah. [00:52:18] Logan: Just been like, holy shit. Like, he's coming out of nowhere when reality. He's been doing this for like 30 years. [00:52:23] Andy: Yeah. Right at that point, making Mega cop in his backyard. [00:52:28] Logan: God bless. [00:52:29] Andy: On a potato. [00:52:29] Logan: I need to watch. I would love to watch all this. [00:52:31] Andy: Apparently, that was the first film he and Megan Blair made together was mega Cop, which is just a riff on Robocop. [00:52:37] Logan: This would not make money through criterion, but I want. If anyone from aero video listens to this VA collection, I would love an. [00:52:44] Andy: Early works of Sony, all his VHS movies. [00:52:47] Logan: It could even just be a dvd release. You don't have to. Don't 4k it. Yeah, you don't have to fork it. I will buy it. [00:52:53] Andy: Yeah. [00:52:53] Logan: Because that would just be. Yeah, that's just so much fun. Just the fact that, like. [00:52:56] Andy: Yeah, I saw some little clips from, like, his early. Yeah. Like, they have, like, they did, like, little ziplock bag squibs, you know, like, just squeezing them on their chest spurts. [00:53:08] Logan: When that's. I want for a paint now. That's what I'm gonna think of when, like, there's a big, you know, you know, production. Like a producer mogul sit in a chair with a cigar going. They don't make movies like Disney. Like, I want to think of that anytime I see just the backyard shorts making. Blair and Sony did. [00:53:26] Andy: Yeah. [00:53:26] Logan: But, yeah, Blue Ruin is just. Because I think it got a little bit of a bump in 2013. Little. Because I think it was on streaming, like, on Netflix for a little while. [00:53:36] Andy: Okay. [00:53:37] Logan: A little bit of a bump there. And then I think just over time is it. It definitely is one of those things where I think, thankfully for Sony, it is, like, with each new film that he does, it kind of. It holds. Thankfully. It almost does a ramification of, like, you know, bringing people back into the films that they maybe have already seen from him. [00:53:57] Andy: Yeah. [00:53:57] Logan: Or introducing them to. [00:53:59] Andy: Yeah. Blue Ruin kind of gets brought back up every time Sonia had. Sonia has a new project, and so I think it's kind of stayed in, you know, at least like, the film nerd lexicon. [00:54:09] Logan: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. [00:54:10] Andy: Because of that. It's, you know, pretty popular on Letterboxd and stuff. Yeah. And it's. [00:54:15] Logan: It's a good. It's a really good revenge drama. [00:54:17] Andy: Yeah. [00:54:18] Logan: I really think it's great. And to go from that film to his final film in this trilogy, his third film in his filmography, one that is arguably his most popular just because of the a 24 of it all oh, yeah. It's probably distribution wise as well as the cast. It's the most popular cast. [00:54:37] Andy: It's definitely is the most like famous movie. [00:54:41] Logan: Yeah. And for a lot of, and from good reasons and unfortunately one sad reason, because in 2016's Green Room, [00:54:53] Andy: Well, well, maybe it was 2016 theatrical 2015 at Cannes. [00:54:57] Logan: Because the thing about Green Room being released is that not only does it have Patrick Stewart as one is the head antagonist of the head of a neo nazi party that owns a club, that a bunch of punk rockers format. [00:55:14] Andy: You know, Patrick Stewart's involvement in this movie was a big part of the headlines and marketing. [00:55:18] Logan: Oh, absolutely. [00:55:19] Andy: Came out because, I mean, I think. [00:55:21] Logan: One of the first things they released, first look wise, I don't even think they say Sawney's name in a lot of the first promos until. But they say here's Patrick Stewart as a neo Nazi in the new film Green Room in A24's Green Room. [00:55:34] Andy: Yeah. [00:55:35] Logan: But it's not only is it Patrick Stewart on the antagonist side of things, on our protagonist side we have the late Anton Yelchin. [00:55:43] Andy: Yeah. [00:55:44] Logan: And around the time that this film had come out, this film had come out at a time similar to like with Star Trek Beyond. This came out after Anton's untimely death. And so Green Room not only is got the biggest cast I believe Sonya has had so far in his career, even though Hold the Dark has Alexander Skarsgard and Jeffrey Wright still, having fucking Professor X as a neo Nazi in your film genuinely definitely raises some eyebrows in the right way. Yeah, it is just the. It's also a bit of a bummer that it's like this is. If you like this film a lot because of Anton's performance. Well, unfortunately, this is one of his last completed films. Yeah, I don't think it's his last film. I think Thoroughbreds is either his last or second to last. But this was a film that kind of had, when it hit the festival market, I think it had a lot of that buzz from Stuart and Yelchin as well as Saulnier with Blue Ruin behind him. Then when it finally gets released, it is a little bit watching this film, I remember even seeing it in theaters because it was around the same time that Star Trek beyond was coming out. [00:56:52] Andy: Yeah. [00:56:52] Logan: And there's a part in that film that like, clearly they edit it in a way where it's like we are honoring the just absolute tragedy surrounding this man's death and just to watch Green Room and just see Anton Yelchin be fucking so good in this movie. He is, hilariously enough, the best. Like, one of the things I like about the group of punk rockers that are in the band that get pulled into this, basically the most rock in a hard place premise where it's like a punk group from DC is on the west coast and is desperate to get money and so they decide to take a job at a neo Nazi bar. [00:57:35] Andy: Yeah, I can't. I. Is it implied that they didn't. I don't think they knew what it was until they got there. [00:57:42] Logan: It is. It is implied. I know. I think that because the kid tells them that his cousin, who is a play by Mark. Not Mark Webb. But. No, but I think it's. But I think you'll know who I'm talking. Daniel Mark Weber. Mark Webber. [00:57:58] Andy: Yeah, yeah. [00:57:59] Logan: Steven stills from the Scott Pilgrim film. He tells them about his, like, cousin being like, the go ahead person, but, like, tells them, like, listen, there's a bunch of skinheads there. I never talked to my, I never talked to him about politics. So just keep that. So, like, he says, like, be warned, there are skinheads that are full blown skinheads. And so they go to, they go to a skinhead bar. They play a performance. It goes about as well as, I think, a punk rock performance, that of skinhead bar would go. As they're leaving, they're forced to leave a room. They leave the green room. One of them forgets their phone. Antonio goes back to get the phone and then they see that a murder has happened in the green room. [00:58:41] Andy: Yeah. And then they basically walk in on a murder, like, totally unrelated to them, basically. [00:58:47] Logan: And then similar to Blue Ruin, but much faster, the shit starts rolling down the hill. [00:58:52] Andy: Yeah. [00:58:53] Logan: And it is from that point forward, it is, it is. Again, you have Saulnier's Gertrude debut being a horror comedy that is very unique enough in terms of its execution, but of course, it's very low budget. You have Blue Ruin being a subversive revenge drama in the best way possible in that regard. And then you have Green Room, which is arguably his most straightforward to an extent film, but still has the subversive quality and the fact that it's. I don't think I've seen, I've talked to anyone who's seen the film for the first time and liked it that really expected how, how it would go at all. Like, in terms, like, kind of like the way the events where it's like, I remember seeing in theaters expecting it to be like, oh, this has got to be like a knuckle dragging, brutal, you know, punk rockers versus Nazis. Kind of like. [00:59:45] Andy: Sure. More of an all out war type thing. [00:59:48] Logan: And it is, again, similar to Blue Ruin. It is subversive in the way that it's, like, is more really about. It's more about punk rockers who are. They're actual punk rockers, but in a situation like this, are vastly outnumbered in, like, experience. [01:00:04] Andy: Yeah. [01:00:04] Logan: Manpower, gunpowder, as well as the neo-Nazis who pretend are not neo-Nazis but clearly have killed people at this bar before. [01:00:13] Andy: Yeah. [01:00:14] Logan: And clearly know how to clean up and get ready for people for the next day. [01:00:18] Andy: Yeah. [01:00:19] Logan: And it's more about the uninitiated versus the way too initiated in this regard and leads to some moments that I think are just seen it the first time. I remember not even being disappointed but just being shocked at how the deaths go, especially when it comes to our protagonist side of things, because they are very. And I think it's very Saulnier of him to do this, but, like, very unceremonious. Yeah. [01:00:45] Andy: All the violence is very sudden. [01:00:47] Logan: Yes. [01:00:48] Andy: And kind of, again, kind of awkward. Not super like. [01:00:54] Logan: Yeah, not like probably the nastiest violence is off screen, which is Anton's hand. [01:00:59] Andy: Uh, yeah. You only see the aftermath of it. [01:01:02] Logan: Yeah. Because at a certain point, the punk rockers lock themselves into a Green Room. The neo-Nazis led by what is Stewart's name in the film? [01:01:10] Andy: Uh, Darcy. [01:01:11] Logan: Darcy, yeah. Patrick Stewart's Darcy is trying to get them out. And the only way they. They try to barter, you know, safe passage to get out of the skinhead bar. And Darcy's like, all right, we'll just give us the gun. And they think it's right to just keep the bullets, but give them the gun. And when fucking Anton Yelchin gives them the gun, they pull the. They pull his hand through the arm, through the doorway. Doorway. [01:01:34] Andy: And you don't even know really what happened to him. [01:01:38] Logan: No. Yelchin's acting is all you need in that moment because he is just screaming bloody murder. Then when he pulls his nard, like, just gnarly fucking hand. [01:01:48] Andy: Yeah, it's almost. It's almost like they took a, like, curled ribbon of sheet metal and, like, ran his arm through it. [01:01:57] Logan: Because again, I think before. It's either before that or right after that, you find out that the neo-Nazis have been told by Darcy to only do knives. Yeah, just blades. No guns. [01:02:06] Andy: Yeah. [01:02:07] Logan: Knives are cleaner to clean, which is just fucked up. [01:02:11] Andy: Yeah. [01:02:11] Logan: And it's like thinking about the fact that, like, you don't see any machetes. You would assume they just have, like, they just have, like, knives. [01:02:18] Andy: Like hand knives, pocket knives and switchblades. [01:02:21] Logan: Fucking hand. [01:02:22] Andy: You're like, which fucking cut him with. [01:02:24] Logan: How many fucking people? [01:02:26] Andy: Yeah, it looks like he. Yeah, they, like, turned his hand into a ribbon. [01:02:30] Logan: It's like fucking, it's like lasagna. [01:02:32] Andy: It's like a spiral slice all the way down his forearm. [01:02:36] Logan: And they have to, ah, our hand. [01:02:39] Andy: Is, like, hanging off. [01:02:40] Logan: And they have to use duct tape. [01:02:41] Andy: To, like, try to seal it up with duct tape. Which you can tell by, like, the next scene it's already fallen off because, like, there's so much blood. [01:02:49] Logan: It's so fucking good. And it's because, again, it's like with Anton being the biggest star in the punk rocker side of things. Because we have Joe wise, who at that point had been in a bunch of other stuff. I think most people would probably know him from Peaky Blinders, Calum or Callum Turner, who has also been in a bunch of shit that I think other people would know him from. Aaliyah Shawcat, who's mainly known for arrested development but was just recently seen him blink twice. Yeah, she also has, you know, search party on TBS. She's on Scavengers Reign, which everyone should watch. That's a great animation. [01:03:24] Andy: Oh, yeah. [01:03:25] Logan: But, like, Anton is basically. It feels like he is the lead. He's the lead negotiator for the punk rockers. And you feel like he's gonna get the most usage screen time wise because he's Anton Yelchin. But the fact that he is the one that gets fucked up first and fucked up, honestly, the hardest for the longest time. Yeah, it's quite shocking when it gets to the point where it's like, when you realize you can guess who's gonna make it out by the end of the film. But it's like, how the fuck do they. How do you get out of this? [01:03:57] Andy: Yeah. [01:03:58] Logan: And honestly, I think, again, in very sunny fashion, the subversive element of it is because I understand that a good. A critique for this film from a lot of people, understandably so I get it, is that it's not punk enough, but there's good punk. L. I mean, I think the first 20 to 25 minutes have a lot of great punk energy in terms of waking up in a cornfield because the driver got so fucked up he drove off siphoning gas from a skating rink, talking about how, like, let's hope it's a regular skating rink, not a hockey team. Because hockey, hockey players are harder to fight. [01:04:32] Andy: Yeah. [01:04:33] Logan: Like, and then they basically crash at this dude's place and eat his food. Just, he's a college student that runs like, a college radio station that is. Doesn't. Basically doesn't get paid to do that shit. And is you get like, this very grassroots. No social media, which again, I think also is a perfect thing in terms of, like, then you don't have to worry about being like, well, this guy. They have a popular social media presence. Wouldn't people be like, no, if they're nothing. No, they hate social media. [01:05:07] Andy: Yeah. [01:05:07] Logan: It ruins the authenticity. [01:05:09] Andy: Yeah. They're like. Which is very fucking perfect. Yeah. [01:05:13] Logan: And to get to the point where I. Because I think to me, I've. I'm fine with it being less quote unquote punky throughout. It's because, like, once the life or death situation comes in, it doesn't even fucking matter. [01:05:25] Andy: Yeah. [01:05:25] Logan: Mentality at that point. [01:05:27] Andy: Yeah. I found an interview where Sonia was actually talking about that and how, like, I mean, the, the guy was a, he was a actual, like, into the punk scene, like, in the eighties and nineties. He was in a hardcore band. He followed a bunch of, like, tiny local hardcore bands. [01:05:44] Logan: He was born in Alexandria, I think, Virginia, but he was a DC punkhead. [01:05:49] Andy: Yeah. He was like a skate punk kid. Oh, God. And so basically, like, what Green Room was for him was him, like, putting all his love of punk culture, you know, basically into the dressing of the movie. But he wasn't trying to make, like, a movie about punk as a. [01:06:09] Logan: No. Yeah. [01:06:09] Andy: As an aesthetic, as a lifestyle. It was just like, and I. He said something along the lines of, like, he feels like when he sees punk represented in movies, it's always like, tons of emphasis on it. Super dialed up. [01:06:23] Logan: Yeah. [01:06:24] Andy: And he was like, these are just people and they love this kind of music. And yes, there's a culture around the music and a philosophy around it, but, like, they're just people. And at the end of the day, yeah, they're stuck in this life and death situation. So why. I'm not making a statement about punk. I'm articulating this crazy situation people are. [01:06:44] Logan: Being put in because they, I mean, he establishes early on that they're a group that are very scrappy. They're willing to throw hands if it comes to it. [01:06:52] Andy: Maybe too willing. [01:06:53] Logan: Yeah, too willing. But I would also say it again, which has very much Blue Ruin vibes to it, is the fact that once guns are introduced, once blades also are introduced, or just like, the fact that, holy shit, people can die. It's like this energy of like, holy shit, someone died in our vicinity and we saw it. We are probably going to fucking die. Oh, fuck. The punk element does not go away for the rockers. It ultimately becomes just more of, like, just the. It's like almost their more honest elements come out. Which is why I love the whole desert island band thing where it's like, early on in the film, they play up how much they love punk by seeing what their desert island bands would be. And Anton's just like, oh, there's too many to choose from. [01:07:41] Andy: Yeah. [01:07:42] Logan: And arguably, I would say that Anton's character, I think, is the most punk out of all of them. Because when he starts talking about, like, you know, what's the, like, why the live performance? That's the most important because you're there. The energy is unique, it's raw. And then once it's done, it's done. And that's beautiful. [01:08:00] Andy: It's very much about the art of it. [01:08:03] Logan: And then the fact that it's like the rest of his crew have answers for, like, desert island bands that are very punk rock themed. And then when they're about to basically do their last hurrah, what I think is their last hurrah, they all admit, like, Prince, Prince Simon and Garfunkel. And then Callum Turner's character who I believe is, gosh, it's tiger. I think it's tiger one. He is like, I'm still the misfits. [01:08:29] Andy: Yeah. [01:08:29] Logan: And they all go like, oh, look at you. The punk. The punk. Like, it's the fact that it's like, I do love that little element of Sonnier being like, yeah, punk is a part of you. But like, yeah, in most films when they do punk, it's like all punk. And it's like, no, it's just an aspect of you. [01:08:43] Andy: Yeah, it's just an interest, basically. [01:08:45] Logan: It's like you can lie to yourself and say you don't like other things, but, like, yeah, that's just. People are multifaceted. Yeah, it's like. And I love the fact that, like, you know, with Anton, it's very much like with him feeling like the most punk of them all, he also feels the most punk because he really is just, like, very much in the moment. Doesn't really give a shit about being popular or make just. Or even making a lot of money and being famous. He genuinely just, like, wants to be in the. The scene, wants to be. Lets people to enjoy the music and just be in the vibe. And play a lot of shows, like, very much like a. Treating a short term goal is almost like a long term dream. And it's very fascinating to see when it gets to a point where it's like, holy shit, we could fucking die. [01:09:33] Andy: Yeah. [01:09:34] Logan: Especially that he gets ravaged so early on in his arm. He leads to be the one that ultimately has the thought. The paintball story. I fucking love, I love, I love. The paintball story is literally, like, the silliest shit. [01:09:51] Andy: Yeah. Very silly. [01:09:52] Logan: But it's arguably, like, him just having to tell himself, like, and basically almost inspire Imogen poots, who is fucking good in this movie. She's really fucking good. It's basically going like, we have been trying to fight on their rules, on their playing field, and they outmatch us at every. Every way, shape, or form. They have dogs. They have guns. This is their building. They know how we'll try to get out. Like, we can't play this on their field. We just have to go and say, fuck it, and just see if. And just act at wild. Yeah, let's go crazy and see if it actually throws them off. And, like, it's just. Again, it's so. That scene is so funny when he has his arm just, like, ravaged and, like, covered in duct tape, and they're all just like, what the fuck are we gonna do now? And it's like, at that point. Yeah, they're like, fuck it. And then, honestly, that leads to some fun, unique moments that I think really work in very much a Blue Ruin fashion, where it's like they have a plan, but, like, there's a difference between having a plan and executing it well. [01:10:59] Andy: Yeah, there's a lot of, like, okay, we're gonna try this. And they run out of the room, and then somebody dies, and then they run back in the room and they're like, well, that didn't work. [01:11:05] Logan: Because I don't really think anyone in this film is inherently because, like, a thing with a film like this or, like, a horror film is like, is there a stupid person in the bunch? And I don't really think there is a dumb person, at least on the punk rock side. I think it's generally. They are so fucking inexperienced with anything. [01:11:22] Andy: Yeah, it's kind of like anything you do is gonna be stupid in some sense. Cause, like, you don't have any options. [01:11:29] Logan: Because it's like, you know, in movies. And again, it feels very much like Blue Ruin, where there's, like, this almost this underlying feeling of, like, we, especially Americans, consume media in a way that it's like, it is inherently in the back of our brain when it comes to certain aspects of work or this and that, especially when it comes to action, when it comes to guns, explosions, violence, there's a certain type of way in our brain that goes, well, if I just hold the gun like this and I point it, it should work. Kill something when arguably you need, you need to have, you know, stability, which you can't do if you have a fucked up arm. You have to be aware that, like, something might be faster than how you are going to react to it, which is where the dog comes into it. And just also the fact that it's like, yeah, it's just, it's fascinating to see, again, another film that is not outright saying, like, these are people that are grown up on modern culture that are just in over their heads. Because the reality of it all is that killing people is. Killing people in the real world is not the same as killing someone in a film. Yeah, shooting guns in a film is not the same as in, like, explosions. And it is just fascinating to see Sonny do that again with Green Room. But, like, it's more of a, kind of like a white knuckle thriller of, like, just at a certain point realizing, oh, they're so fucked. Yeah, how the fuck do you get out of this? Especially when the, the whole. Again, there's, there's great as shows how great of a director he is, especially storyteller, because all three of these films in this trilogy are written by Saunier. And he is just so great and shows it very much. So in Blue Ruin, the, the breadcrumb method of, like, sprinkling in these ideas of like, oh, we're talking about this thing. Maybe they'll come back later. And then, of course, it comes back later in the best way. And, like, with Green Room, it's like, oh, the lights went out. There is a light coming through the floorboards. Maybe we can get down there. And then that answers a new kind of predicament. And then finding, like, how all these little things that you think at the moment are like, oh, this is not going to be actually useful, ultimately come back in a unique way or in a way that you expect, but it's still really enjoyable. And on top of all that, we arguably get more. We get more development for the neo-Nazis than we actually do for the punk rockers. And honestly, I think in, that's a good way because it's a situation where it's like, again, in a subversive way, you would not expect to see a neo Nazi and go, oh, man, I kind of feel. I don't really, I don't hate this guy, but I don't. I kind of feel bad because, like, again, with the make Macon Blair mania character, he is basically the first person to notice the punk rockers see the murder. Him and big Justin, I think, is the guy that is in the room with them. Yeah. And is basically trying to calm them down and basically get them out of there legitually trying to get anyone else out there without any more people dying. Right. And then when Patrick Stewart shows up, it basically gets revealed that Patrick Stewart, as soon as he arrives, he just is like, no, we're gonna get the keys to their van, go destroy their van, or make it look bad. We're gonna have to kill them all. [01:14:47] Andy: Get rid of them. Yeah. [01:14:48] Logan: And then that leads make and Blair to the arguably. While I think that there definitely should be more development for all the characters, I think it's one of the weakest parts of the film. But, like, make and Blair, like we talked about in blue Rue and just having such good acting chops that even the little bit that man is in there, you can tell that there's something going on internally that is nothing going well in terms of, like. [01:15:12] Andy: Yeah, it's almost like without the film ever actually, like, suggesting it in any number of words. It's something about his performance says, like, maybe he just works here, or like, maybe he didn't know what he signed on for, or maybe he's having second thought. Maybe he thought he was a Nazi. Maybe he thought he could be a skinhead and then decided, nah, this shit's not for me. Yeah, but, like, something about him is very. Yeah, he's not at ease in this position. He is, like, from a professional standpoint, he seems very competent at what he does and he's good at keeping his cool amidst things like directing people and that sort of thing. In terms of working the venue, he knows his shit. But, yeah, there's this hint in his performance of deep unease with what's being. [01:16:04] Logan: Done, hilariously enough, again. [01:16:06] Andy: And that makes sympathy for him, even. [01:16:08] Logan: Though this is, I would probably say, is my favorite of the three. Not by much. I think Blue Ruin and Green Room are connected neck and neck to me, both four out of fives for me personally. But, like, I think the most fascinating part about Green Room is I, for some reason thought, going into a rewatch, I thought making Blair was a fed the whole time. Oh, I thought I remembered it being like they were trying to find a traitor amidst them and Blair. And, like, arguably, that's the reason why he just, like, turns. Cody's like, listen, I've been deep undercover for a while, and I'm just sick of it. [01:16:40] Andy: Yeah. [01:16:40] Logan: But the fact that it really is, like, the traitor is literally mark Webber just, like, wanting to go. Basically wanting to fall in love with someone who's not in the party. [01:16:50] Andy: Yeah. [01:16:50] Logan: Organization and making Blair literally is just like. Honestly, it's like the guy in Iron man three where he goes, listen, I just work here. [01:16:58] Andy: Yeah. [01:16:59] Logan: I have no idea what's going on. These people are so weird because with, like, with, like, Mark Weber's character, what's great about his whole introduction, that story, is that you find out that it's his girlfriend that gets killed early on in the film. And so, like, he ends up turning coat just to be like, I. It's all. It's all over now. The reason why I was gonna leave is because of her. I'm not staying. They fucking killed. Yeah, I can't. And then it leads to that moment where they go down to the secret. The secret heroin lab. [01:17:29] Andy: Yeah. [01:17:31] Logan: And even he is like, I knew this existed, but I did not know it was in the basement. So it even implies the fact that, like, even though not everyone in the group is a red lace, they keep saying, like, the red laces are, like, the. Basically, like, the soldiers to a degree, almost the ones that. [01:17:46] Andy: Yeah, kind of Darcy's SS guard. [01:17:49] Logan: Yeah. It is funny to see, like, both Mark Webber's character as well as Megan Blair's character just being like, they both are clearly understanding that what they're doing at this club is not entirely legal because, like, again, making Blair, even though I don't think he's a full blown piece of shit like the other neo-Nazis we see in this movie, he also still is willing to give two kids $300 if one stabs the other to be, like, the fake, basically, the stand in stabbing for the one that the 911 call was called for. And he was willing to do that. But it is fascinating to give. It's that thing of, you are in a very slippery slope when you try to humanize. When you try to humanize a Nazi or just in general, but, like, shows how good of a writer you are, especially good of a storyteller you are, is when you're able to be like, no, I'm not saying this person is not a piece of shit. Or, like, there's not any tendencies that make them a good person. Yeah, I'm just saying that at the end of the day, they're human. Yeah, there is. Okay. It's okay for humans to reconsider some of the bad decisions they've made to. [01:19:00] Andy: Get to this point. [01:19:01] Logan: And there are clearly worse neo-Nazis in the group. [01:19:04] Andy: Well, it's also, like, okay to tell a story featuring pieces of shit or people with really fucked up worldviews and not make the primary point of your movie. Aren't these people fucking awful? Yes, they're neo-Nazis. [01:19:25] Logan: We get it literally, from the get go. The film goes, listen, guys, it's easy, $350, but it's a skinhead bar. [01:19:32] Andy: Yeah, but, like, the movie is clearly not about how evil neo-Nazis are. Yeah, it's like, yes, that's kind of a given. And the movie just kind of moves with it. [01:19:44] Logan: I mean, the guy that. I think his name is worm with an e. The guy that stabs Mark Webber's girlfriend and starts the whole inciting incident. [01:19:53] Andy: Yeah. [01:19:54] Logan: Like, his whole fucking thing is he's a piece of shit. But when he's coming up to the band, he was like, your song's fucking hard, man. Like, it's like, weirdly, even though he's in a room with a dead body that he created, he is just enough of a fan of their work. He's like, I'll listen to that shit later. It is like a moment of humanization that arguably makes his inhuman act sinful, act that much worse, that he's able to compromise all that. [01:20:22] Andy: Right. [01:20:22] Logan: Just to ask a question, like a fan question, and leave and then. Yeah, it's. It's just very. I definitely. I think I'm very well aware that I'd like this more than you did, but I'm curious about, in terms of where you're at. Yeah, so what? Like, because I think I saw that you kind of rated, like, in a three and a five. [01:20:40] Andy: Yeah, I liked this movie less than the first time I watched it. That's fine. I think I softened on it a little bit, because I just. Yeah, I enjoyed all the, you know, kind of the. The atmosphere of it and what we're talking about with the kind of Sonia's language of just, like, presenting the world as it is, rather than being like, here's a movie about, you know, how immoral and shitty these people are. It's more just like these people exist, and this is. We're telling a story within their world. And I liked all that. I think I found the actual, like, kind of structure and parade of the sort of set pieces to be a little bit repetitive. And so that's why I was. [01:21:24] Logan: That's fair. [01:21:24] Andy: I can see that a little. A little. I mean, again, down on it. But, like, it's not a bad movie. And I certainly, I think is still a good showcase. Just like Blue Ruin of what makes Sonya an interesting filmmaker. [01:21:39] Logan: Yeah. And I do say, too, if you. I mean, at this point, if you listen to the pod before, he spoiled a little too much about all these films. But if you still want to give Green Room a watch and you just watch the trailer, the trailer for this movie is great. But I will say the trailer makes it feel a bit more actiony than the film actually is. The trailer is great for this film and I think it does a good job selling it. But it is going into the movie. It is a bit of a. It's not slow. It's, again, it's 90 minutes. But again, it, to get to the moments in that trailer that are kind of, you know, pushed like the dogs or the impromptu weapons or figuring out a way to get out and all that, there is a decent amount of time between all those things happening. And when they do happen in a very realistic, subversive fashion, it's very fast. It's not a knuckle, it's not a drag out. It's not a John Wick fight between a bunch of rockers and neo-Nazis. It is very much a group in over their head against just an evil party. [01:22:40] Andy: Once, once shit hits the fan, it's pretty much, they're constantly trying to figure out how to scratch and claw their way out of it for the rest of the movie. [01:22:49] Logan: And I just. There's something about it that I think I remember seeing Green Moon for the first time and without the yelching of it all, thinking about the fact that it's one of his last films. To me, I just love watching that movie and be like, God, this man did Murder Party nine years ago. And we're at a point now where, like, Green Room, I think. I think, isn't. To me, it's an easy recommendation for a thriller just because it's like it will throw you for a loop and it will surprise you in places. But I think it will very much be like, oh, fuck, I. Even if you don't love it, if you're more on Andy side of things or if you're in my side of things where you just like it a bit more, I think it's still like it does where I think a film like this would do, where it kind of sticks in your brain, it's an entertaining time, and it has Saulnier in the back of your brain. You now know who this guy is. [01:23:41] Andy: Yeah. [01:23:41] Logan: You know what he's done. Then you go and find Blue Ruin, and then you go see, maybe hold the dark. And then, yeah, after this episode, if you watch all those films and you're like, shit, I want. Oh, or just start with Rebel Ridge and then watch these movies, I feel like it's. [01:23:53] Andy: Yeah, there's a surprising amount of, like, confidence to both this and Blue Ruin, especially, which is, I think, especially kind of remarkable given how both movies are kind of trying to, like, defy their own genre. [01:24:08] Logan: Yeah, for sure. [01:24:09] Andy: But it feels very, you know, steady and in its element the whole time. And so, yeah, I think he's. He's just an interesting storyteller and stylist in that way. And I'm interested to see how he, you know, brings that language into something like Rebel Ridge. [01:24:32] Logan: Yeah. Did you watch the trailer for Rebel Ridge? [01:24:34] Andy: I haven't watched the trail. I've seen, like, I, like, brief seconds here and there, but I didn't sat down and watched. [01:24:40] Logan: I mean, again, you don't necessarily need to watch it because, again, by the time this episode is out, the film has been out for a bit. But I will say there's one part in the trailer I know. I think you know me well enough that I know you're gonna go, oh, that's the part where Logan just. Just freaked the fuck out because it's like. It's a really standard, like, again, when the trailer first came out, it doesn't really push. It's not as artsy as Green Rooms. [01:25:04] Andy: Looks a little more straightforward. [01:25:05] Logan: Very much Netflix. Like, oh, by the way, this is coming out this weekend. Energy. But, like, has a strong cast behind it. And there's one piece of action that is just like, something I. You don't see that often in an action movie now, except for maybe like, a split second and, like, a wick film. But, like, after watching Green Room and Blue Ruin, about, like, just throwing guns at people that don't have bullets in, but, like, being like, oh, shit, I'm out of wet ammo. It's like, oh, I'll just use that as a weapon. Like, yeah, it's fun to see. Just watch that trailer for Rev origins. Be like, God, it'll be really nice to see Sonia just do, like, walking tall. [01:25:42] Andy: Yeah, I mean, with these other movies, there's these three movies. There's a scrappiness to all of his characters. That's really fun. Where a lot of their actions are very improvised. It's very quick, rash decisions being made. And so I think that'll play really interesting in a, you know, a dad movie action thriller. [01:26:07] Logan: I will also say before we finish up, the. The last line in Green Room is probably my favorite line in all three of these movies because it's just. [01:26:16] Andy: Oh, Imogen Pootz's line. [01:26:18] Logan: Yeah, because again, it's like, for. For a man who is not constantly pushing in, like, interviews or stuff that house subversive. He's trying to attempt the genres and whatnot. It's just fun that, like, watching Green Room, you know, by the end of the film, there's gonna be something that Anton Yulchin wants to say, the specific thing, and then the fact that Imogen poots his last line just completely demolishes whatever that was gonna be. Yeah, it's so fucking good. [01:26:45] Andy: Yeah. [01:26:45] Logan: So fucking funny. It's so well done. [01:26:47] Andy: I appreciated her line there, cuz I was feeling that way about Antonio's character throughout the movie. Like, “Oh, my God, this guy's fucking. This guy's head is full of–” [01:26:56] Logan: This guy's not full of blood. It's not full of blood because it's all coming out of his arm. He does have a badass line. Very, very. At the very end of the film when he goes, like, “You're much scarier at night.” [01:27:10] Andy: Yeah. [01:27:10] Logan: And again, which, again, one thing about. We haven't really talked too much about Stewart's character, but, like, it's Patrick Stewart playing a neo-Nazi. So of course there is subtlety, there is gravitas brought to that character that, like, anyone else could have done, but not in a Patrick Stewart way that I feel like really sells the film easily if you're looking for that, especially for an antagonist. And also, apparently when Stewart read the script and, like, in his home and I think in England, he just, like, basically locked all of his doors and was very uncomfortable for a while. Oh, God, this guy is disgusting. [01:27:46] Andy: Right. [01:27:47] Logan: And he plays it incredibly well. [01:27:49] Andy: Mm hmm. [01:27:50] Logan: But, yeah, that's Green Room for the Rise of Saulnier. He is just very interesting as an auteur. And even though we haven't seen Hold the Dark, rewatching all these films, I'm really excited to actually finally give it a watch, now that I remember that it's on Netflix and I have Netflix because unfortunately, that's just what happens with Netflix. [01:28:09] Andy: Yeah. [01:28:10] Logan: Is either you randomly look at it and go, “oh, that's on there now,” or it's like, “oh, wait, this is a Netflix original that's been here for years,” and they just never talk about a classic in the Netflix catalog. But yeah, that's the Rise of Saulnier. We are ending September, in my head, on a high note that isn't Alien-related. [01:28:33] Andy: Nice to get something new and fresh after that. [01:28:36] Logan: Yeah, something nice and fresh. And to get us ready to talk to you about our first October trilogy, a trilogy that I would say, and again, I think I've said this a few times this year, which is why I think this year has been so much fun in terms of our ideas for what we want to do trilogy wise. But I'm pretty sure this is an idea that Andy came to me with and I. [01:28:56] Andy: Was it my idea? [01:28:57] Logan: I think it might have. I think I helped with the trilogy. [01:29:01] Andy: Yeah. Refined the curation of it. [01:29:03] Logan: Yeah. Because I think initially you were going to have this trilogy. Have the first film in. [01:29:11] Andy: Yeah. The tying film was going to be in the trilogy. [01:29:14] Logan: So our first trilogy in October is going to be a first for us. [01:29:18] Andy: Yeah. Might be kind of a new type of trilogy. [01:29:21] Logan: And honestly, it would be a lot of fucking fun. It just works out for us. But we're doing what we're going to be calling starter packs, which are basically in honor of the release of Joker: Full a doo–(?) [Joker: Folie a Deux] [01:29:36] Andy: Sure. [01:29:36] Logan: I'm just gonna throw that out there. [01:29:38] Andy: We're American. [01:29:39] Logan: Yeah. Joker 2: Electric Boogaloo. [01:29:41] Andy: Yeah. [01:29:42] Logan: In honor of that film coming out in October, and it's clearly gonna probably be the biggest release in October. [01:29:47] Andy: Probably. Logan: We are doing– Andy Wait, we're forgetting Piece by Piece. The Pharrell Williams Lego biopic. Logan: Is that October? Andy: That is October. And it's definitely gonna outgross Joker 2. [01:30:01] Logan: Do you know that meme of, like, the guy wearing the shirt that says, “I have no fear?” And then the last panel is, “I have one fear.” [01:30:08] Andy: Yeah. It's Piece by Piece. But Joker is afraid of Piece by Piece. [01:30:12] Logan: It's. It's my fear is that you're gonna say, “Let's do a double feature of Joker 2 and that.” [01:30:17] Andy: Yeah. [01:30:19] Logan: But, yeah, in honor of the new Joker film that'll be out in October, we are doing what we call the Joker Starter Pack, basically, in case you haven't seen 2019's Joker to a degree. Good for you. Because there's a lot tied to that film that fortunately shouldn't be tied to that film. But also, it's a bit of a mixed. There's a lot going into that movie. [01:30:42] Andy: Being that it was a comic book film. [01:30:45] Logan: Yes. [01:30:45] Andy: That was a rated R and took its subject matter seriously in a way that is not super common to the genre. [01:30:56] Logan: Also had a lead actor that turned down an MCU role. [01:31:00] Andy: Yes. [01:31:00] Logan: Years before, is now doing already a. [01:31:03] Andy: Revered actor, Academy Award-winning and all that sort of thing. [01:31:08] Logan: Won an Oscar from this movie and. [01:31:10] Andy: Then went on to win an Oscar from the movie. Yes. It's a movie that exists in this kind of strata where it's like superhero fans hold it up as one of the greats of the genre. Non-superhero fans hold it up as one of the few good things from the genre. And so it kind of, you know, it got a lot of. A lot of hype around that period. But it's also a movie that, intentionally or not, wears its influences on its sleeves. [01:31:42] Logan: Yes, we tend to call it in our friend group, or I at least started calling it this Taxi Driver for kids. [01:31:48] Andy: Yeah. [01:31:48] Logan: “Baby's first Scorsese film,”-- Andy: “Baby's first Taxi Driver,” Logan: –because that's what Joker feels like. Because for years, both of us would basically be like, “it's just fascinating that 2019's Joker, very much like Andy says, wears its influences on its sleeves. Its influences specifically being The King of Comedy and Taxi Driver. So we thought, “Why not talk about the films that, maybe if you haven't seen 2019's Joker and you want to see the new one and you want to catch up, why not talk about the films to kind of give you a bit of a foundation as to where those influences come from?” So we are doing–gosh, is it. [01:32:25] Andy: Th 1928 film The Man Who Laughs, which. Which is notably maybe not so much a direct influence on 2019's Joker specifically, so much as an influence on the character of the Joker in general, because this film did influence the original look and aesthetic of the Joker in the comics. [01:32:47] Logan: However, there's a good argument that without that film, we wouldn't get Joker. [01:32:51] Andy: We wouldn't get this version. Yeah. It's also worth noting that 2019's Joker, part of its interpretation of the Joker, is heavily pulled from the premise of The Man Who Laughs. So that's how we tie it in. [01:33:10] Logan: A very classical premise done in modern times. So we're doing the basically the black and white ‘20s film that starts the foundation of the Joker in some way and then talking about the two Scorsese films that is clearly heavily dripping all over 2019's Joker, which is, of course, The King of Comedy and Taxi Driver. [01:33:31] Andy: Yeah. Taxi Driver is ‘75 and King of Comedy is like ‘82. [01:33:38] Logan: When I think of those films, because I. I always think they're like, they're near release dates, but it's really, I think of how old De Niro looks in King of Comedy versus how old he looks in Taxi Driver. [01:33:49] Andy: Yeah, ‘82. So seven years apart. [01:33:51] Logan: So, yeah. So we're doing The Man Who Laughs, Taxi Driver, and The King of Comedy, basically trying to prepare you and prep you in case you are a Joker newb. [01:34:01] Andy: Novice, I was gonna say. It's also. [01:34:05] Logan: There's no nuance. [01:34:07] Andy: It's also. We're also just kind of lifting the. The meme of the “starter pack,” you know? You know, whenever somebody wants to give a reductive assessment of something, they'll just post all the things that it's influenced by in a single image and say, “X starter pack.” [01:34:24] Logan: Oh, for sure. [01:34:24] Andy: So here's our Joker starter pack. [01:34:26] Logan: And it's fun because, like, they're clearly films, especially both indie as well as blockbusters, that wear their influences, inspirations on their sleeves. [01:34:37] Andy: Yeah. [01:34:37] Logan: Just as blatantly as Joker does. So why not just use that as an excuse to talk about those influences and those inspirations? So, yeah. And that will be October 5, correct? [01:34:49] Andy: Yeah, October 5. [01:34:50] Logan: So tune in on October 5 when we talk about our Joker Starter Pack. It's so funny to say, but until then, I'm Logan Sowash. [01:34:58] Andy: And I'm Andy Carr. [01:34:59] Logan: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.