Episode 82: The Nichols-Shannon Sampler

[00:00:19] Speaker A: Hello, everyone, and welcome to odd trilogies with Logan and Andy. I'm Logan Sowash. [00:00:23] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [00:00:23] Speaker A: And on odd trilogies, we take a trio of films where they're tied by cast and crew, thematic elements, numerical order, etcetera. And we discussed the good, the bad, and the weird surrounding each one of those entries. And today, it's good to be back. It's been a little bit of time in between our last. We both had to look at each other and be like, was Chris Pratt? The last trilogy we did? And it was. [00:00:45] Speaker B: And, yeah, it's. It's been a while since we've been in the trilogy game. It's been even longer since we did kind of just our traditional setup of just you and me. [00:00:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:00:54] Speaker B: Because the last time was with our special friend and Lego Lord Austin Webster. [00:01:00] Speaker A: The local master builder himself, Austin Webster, who, as of this recording, even though we always record live, but he just did a guest spot on our website for kinds of kindness. [00:01:11] Speaker B: Yeah, a little review for us, which was awfully kind of him. [00:01:15] Speaker A: Yeah, one of the kinds of kindness he got. [00:01:18] Speaker B: One of the kinds of kindness is movie reviews. [00:01:21] Speaker A: It is movie reviews. It is. Also when we both said, yeah, one of us should do kinds of kindness, and you said, yeah, I'll do it. And then we both leave the theater and look at each other and go, what? [00:01:31] Speaker B: And then you pointed at me and said, good luck. [00:01:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Which, to be fair, I think after a day or two, I now could probably do a review of it. [00:01:39] Speaker B: But, like, immediately after, on Saturday, the day after we saw, I sat down to write and I got. I got two paragraphs that I was really happy with, but then I was like, I don't know what the fuck else I'm gonna write. And then. Yeah. And then Austin kind of seemingly, seemingly half jokingly said he'd write it. And I took him up on that. [00:02:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's a great article. Yeah, I'm glad he did that. And we're excited to have more guest writers in the future, if they are interested. [00:02:09] Speaker B: I would always rather somebody passionate about the movie question whether they love it or hate it, passionate about it, write about it, than me put out a, you know, a two and a half or a three. And I'm like, I don't even know what I'm saying at this point. So. Yeah, thank you, Austin, for that. [00:02:24] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. But today, on odd trilogies, it is not going to be about Yorgos Lanthimos. It is not even going to be Kevin Costner yet, which will be our next episode after this. Spoilers for all those who are waiting to see what the next one was going to be after this. No, today we are going to talk about a sampler trilogy about an actor and a director that, personally, I really enjoy and really excited to see where they go in their career in their collaboration kind of relationship as time goes on. And in honor of their latest release, which is the Bike Riders, we've decided to talk about the collaboration relationship between Mike Nichols and Michael Shannon as a lead actor in his films. [00:03:05] Speaker B: Jeff Nichols. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Thank you. Yes, I. Oh, thank you for letting me. [00:03:09] Speaker B: Jeff Nichols and Jeff Shannon. [00:03:10] Speaker A: Yes, Jeff Shickles, which I need to also address, because apparently there's been enough time in between the Chris Pratt episode and now, for some reason in my brain, I thought Mike Nichols was Jeff Nichols son. Mike Nichols is the prolific director behind like the Graduate, as well as many others in his career. He has decades of films under his filmography that, like the graduate, is like, the easiest one to go to. But there is. Pick a genre, pick a decade. You'll probably find something from him. I swear to God, years ago, I thought I saw an article, not just out of the whim, saying that they were related in some way, shape or form. I took that as fact. It was not at all facts. [00:03:51] Speaker B: Yeah. I thought for a while that Jeff Nichols was Mike Nichols son. [00:03:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:03:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:55] Speaker A: Which at the same time. And you can even see when I did it right now. Cause when someone asked, what is the most iconic Nichols filmmaker? [00:04:01] Speaker B: Right. [00:04:02] Speaker A: My brain automatically went, Mike. [00:04:03] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:04:04] Speaker A: Which is not the case here. Cause it actually is Jeff Nichols who is a director. Honest to God, I love the fact that he's not Mike Nichols's son. [00:04:12] Speaker B: Because in a sense, Jeff Nichols, he's no goro Miyazaki. [00:04:15] Speaker A: He's no goro Miyazaki in this. In fact, Jeff Nichols is straight up from his first film all the way up to the bike riders. Kind of just homegrown, has built his career over some very fascinating films, from the first film, which we will talk about today, all the way up to his most recent film, which we actually talked about in a quickie a few weeks ago when the bike Raiders came out. And the films we actually are talking about today through Jeff Nichols career and with Shannon, are 2000 seven's Shotgun stories, Nichols directorial debut, 20 eleven's Take Shelter, which may or may not be his most critically acclaimed film, and 20 sixteen's Midnight Special, which is a bit of a sleeper that I think came out at a weird time for him, especially critically because at the same time, another one of his films came out probably a few months in the. [00:05:07] Speaker B: Joel Edgerton. Loving. [00:05:09] Speaker A: Yes, loving. [00:05:10] Speaker B: Yeah. The only one of these that I actually remember, like, releasing is. Was Midnight special. [00:05:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:16] Speaker B: But that's probably just because, you know, he had developed more of a name for himself at that point. He'd already done mud, the Matthew McConaughey movie. And I was also popular film, older and was more, you know. Yeah. Exposed to just movie news and stuff. But shotgun stories is kind of the, the indie one of these three. It's a pretty, at least seems to be a fairly obscure movie to most people's perception. [00:05:44] Speaker A: Oh, it's so. [00:05:44] Speaker B: I'm glad we're digging into it. [00:05:45] Speaker A: I think. Yeah, I think we'll get to midnight special, but Midnight specials cast, especially at the time, is wild even now. [00:05:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:54] Speaker A: So it'll be fun to really talk more about that. But yeah, today we are discussing, even though Michael Shannon has been in all of Nicholas's films, as of right now, Shannon really has only been a lead in three of them. [00:06:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:09] Speaker A: In the rest of them, he is a supporting character. And again, that doesn't make him any less performance wise in terms of the amount of commitment he puts into those films. Like, we just. Even with the bike riders, even with that. Like Nichols, Shannon is like a small part in that film, but every time he shows up, it's just a delight to see Shannon just. Yeah, one of the boys film. [00:06:31] Speaker B: Yeah. His, his frequency being in Nicholas films, clearly there is this relationship there, and the fact that he's led three of them is like, you know, natural angle to pursue. [00:06:43] Speaker A: Yeah. And just a little bit of background for both Jeff Nichols and Michael Shannon. Jeff Nichols was born in 1978 in Little Rock, Arkansas. Michael Shannon was born in 1974. Shannon's first film is Groundhog Day. He basically plays the groom in a married couple. It's the one that yells Wrestlemania at the very end there. And I think one or two other scenes before that. But he, I think at that point, he's like 2021 when that film comes out and post that film. I think Shannon is in a lot, it's a decent amount of stuff in the nineties going into the early to mid two thousands as well. But a lot of that is antagonistic roles or supporting character roles or sometimes he is. He is never the marquee name on. [00:07:32] Speaker B: A poster, kind of a character actor. [00:07:34] Speaker A: Yeah. Shannon absolutely is the best way to describe him with that. And I mean, to start off talking about Shannon, I think the best way to break open the conversation in terms of his performances. I have to ask you, Andy, what was your first Michael Shannon film? [00:07:51] Speaker B: I mean, the first movie I watched and, like, took note of the fact that that's Michael Shannon was probably man of Steel like that. [00:07:59] Speaker A: Oh, really? [00:08:00] Speaker B: Probably my normie. [00:08:01] Speaker A: That's fair. [00:08:03] Speaker B: But, I mean, I have seen. I had already seen by that point, just looking at his filmography. I'd already seen several of his movies just without recognizing him. I mean, apparently he's in Pearl harbor. That doesn't surprise me. And I don't remember him in Pearl harbor. But I also watched that movie and I was really young and didn't. He was. But I. Yeah, he was also in Kangaroo Jack. [00:08:24] Speaker A: That is my first. He plays Jerry O'Connell's mafia stepbrother, I believe is. [00:08:33] Speaker B: Okay. [00:08:33] Speaker A: Because I think the whole. Because again, I gotta remember with Kangaroo Jack is. Kangaroo Jack is. Is a film that exists that came out of the early two thousands. But I believe in that film. It's like Jerry O'Connell's mom marries a mafia boss. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Okay? [00:08:48] Speaker A: That mafia boss, I think, passes away or, like, is not doing so hot. And so, like, his son steps up and that's Michael Shannon. Because the whole premise. Do you even know what the premise of Kangaroo Jack is? I was expecting. [00:09:00] Speaker B: I have seen kangaroo jackets in almost two decades from. [00:09:05] Speaker A: It's basically Jerry O'Connell and Anthony Anderson are pulled into, like, I think, a drug or, like, a weapons deal. [00:09:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:12] Speaker A: And they put money in a jacket or in a hoodie. [00:09:15] Speaker B: Right. [00:09:16] Speaker A: They put the hoodie on the kangaroo because it'd be funny. And that's the actual plot of a film you think would be more about a talking kangaroo, which it wasn't. But that's the kind of where Shannon's career is in the early two thousands because, like, now when you talk about Michael Shannon, I think he's gotten so much more love from many other directors. He's worked with Sam Mendes. He's worked with Rian Johnson. He's worked with, like Andy said, with Snyder as Zod on man of Steel as well as most recently with Andy Muschietti in the Flash. [00:09:52] Speaker B: Oh, yes. [00:09:52] Speaker A: Which if you have not seen Michael Shannon talk about the Flash do yourself a favor and do because it's just someone being so. So just transparent about their feelings about how a cinematic universe works. He's also worked with Del Toro in the shape of water. Another phenomenal performance for him. [00:10:12] Speaker B: He played Elvis in that Elvis and Nixon movie. [00:10:14] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know who played Nixon in that film. You know, it's, you know, it's a little fuzzy there, but, you know, ultimately, with Michael Shannon. Shannon, especially in his early career. [00:10:24] Speaker B: Kevin Spacey. [00:10:25] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, I knew who it was. That was the joke. The joke was I knew, and I was pretending. I didn't. [00:10:29] Speaker B: I didn't remember. [00:10:30] Speaker A: Oh, that's funny. But, yeah, I. Shannon, in his early years, is an actor who, when he pops up, nine times out of ten, you probably saw him, recognized him, but didn't fully know it was, you know, he's one of those guys. [00:10:47] Speaker B: He's one of those. That guy. Actors, at least, was for a long. [00:10:50] Speaker A: Time, an easy way to describe as a character actor. [00:10:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:53] Speaker A: And what starts the relationship between Michael Shannon and Jeff Nichols is very fascinating because in the early to mid two thousands, Jeff Nichols was in film school in North Carolina. And while he was in film school, he wrote his directorial debut script, shotgun stories, the first film in our trilogy, and always had the lead son Hayes in mind for Michael Shannon. Here's the thing. He is a film school graduate, which means he has no money, understandably. So. Any college graduate usually is the no money category, nine times out of ten. And so when he gets out and he's trying to contact Shannon because he thinks he could, you know, it's a long shot until he realizes his former teacher, I believe, is going to a film convention or he's doing something where Michael Shannon is actually going to be working with his former teacher. [00:11:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:47] Speaker A: He's able to give the script to his former teachers. He's like, can you please ask Michael Shannon if he'll do this movie? The teacher gets to run into Michael Shannon. Michael Shannon, I believe the way he tells the story, he gives him, like, one of those stares that you can just see in your brain of Michael Shannon. Like, are you fucking kidding me? And he tells the former teacher, all right, just send the script, like, in the mail. Send it to my house. I'll read it later. Shannon reads the scripture, shotgun stories, and has said, still to this day, it's one of the best scripts he's ever read, and goes, fuck it, I need to meet this kid. So he meets with Jeff Nichols and Jeff outright. This is, again, this is all from Michael Shannon on his kind of, like years in review, talking about career. Yeah, I think for Vanity Fair. But he basically said, like, jeff Nichols went, listen, I don't have a big budget, and any money that I could scrounge up for said budget is going to go for the film, for the camera. So I don't know if I'm not going to be able to pay you with much, but my mom makes delicious food, and she will make you dinner if you're okay with it. And Shannon was basically like, fuck it, I'm in. And that's where we have shotgun stories, a film that I genuinely believe is, like, just if you're looking for, like, what you wanted your directorial debut to, like, just be, like, quality wise, I feel like this is just a very obtainable kind of space because shotgun stories is not Jeff Nichols best film. But, my God, does it give you an idea of how Jeff Nichols sees, like, how he writes, how he sees through a camera, how he directs his actors? [00:13:28] Speaker B: It's remarkably self assured. Yeah, I mean, it's not, you know, it's not doing anything horribly ambitious from, like, a technical perspective or anything, but it is, like, it looks pretty great for its shoestring budget. [00:13:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:13:44] Speaker B: And there's a lot of the thing I remember most about this movie is the, like, the editing. Like, really, really sharp, intentional, you know, character driven editing that I think is really cool. And, yeah, like you said, kind of shows the foundation of who he is as a filmmaker and all of his other stuff. It's a really pretty impressive kind of, like, workman like film. And like you said, it's attainable, like, it. Which sounds like a backhanded compliment. No, but. But it's really like, this feels like if you're. I mean, I think all, like, first time filmmakers probably experience the thing of, like, here's what I want to make, and then you go and make it, and it's nothing like you wanted to make it. And this feels almost like a dream where it feels like, surely this is exactly how it was set out to be made because it just seems so. Right. [00:14:38] Speaker A: It seems like a lot of the conversations when directors or actors talk about their favorite experiences on films, it is like, you know, the obtainable kind of goal is they try to have almost a summer camp quality to the energy on set. [00:14:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:14:54] Speaker A: Versus still a professionalism to, like, be like, we are working on a piece of work that is, you know, we're gonna be seen by, you know, hopefully hundreds, thousands of people, maybe millions if we're lucky. So, like, let's put our hearts and soul into it and have a confidence that I think, you know, when you think of directorial debuts, confidence can be a difficult thing to do because, again, like Andy said, it's like you're going in, it's your first film. Not everything's gonna go the way that it's planned. And lo and behold, with Nichols even going into this film, having already seen that, his career goes into a place where it's like, yeah, he knows exactly what he's doing. He's a talented auteur. It is still just fascinating to watch shotgun stories being like, this guy is just. When this film comes out, it's probably like they shot it when, like, Jeff Nichols is like, 28, 29. And there's a confidence in the writing, there's a confidence in the direction. There's a confidence, like you said, in the editing. Like, there's just. It's one of those films where it's like, this is like a seven out of ten to me, but it's a seven out of ten that I can't wait to, like, watch again. Like, in the future, I'll definitely watch it again. And I think there's highlights in the acting, like, iconically, when it comes to Michael Shannon. Michael Shannon, when he talks about this film, the one scene he brings up a lot, which I think is, like, the best moment with Shannon as an actor in this movie, is the hospital scene. There's. There's a specific hospital scene where Shannon's character, son Hayes, who is the, um. Basically, the story is almost like a. It's a Steinbeck esque family between two families that have the same father. But Michael Shannon's family basically had the father when he was a drunk. He was abusive. [00:16:35] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:36] Speaker A: And then the other family that's feuding with them basically had him when he was, like, a reformed together. Yeah. And so, like, one side of the family sees their father as a good man, while the other side sees him as a giant piece of shit. [00:16:48] Speaker B: Well, and right at the start of the movie, the father dies. [00:16:51] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:52] Speaker B: So it's. There's this, like, tension. [00:16:54] Speaker A: Yeah. The inciting incident ends up being a funeral monologue that probably shouldn't. Ended the way that it should have. [00:17:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:17:01] Speaker A: And Michael Shaden's character even admits, yeah, I probably shouldn't have done that, but when else. When are we ever going to say that again? And leads to just a very, you know, just kind of an old school, like, kind of drama vibe that feels perfect, especially for the po dunk kind of southern town energy that it's going for. And in the film, like, for the majority of it, Michael Shannon as an actor is very much. You're seeing him and it's like he is holding down the fort in terms of acting. This man, Shannon, has always been good at eyebrow eye, stoic acting. He is always good with just acting, with very little understated. [00:17:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Not a ton of expression. [00:17:42] Speaker A: So when we get to a scene in shotgun stories where it's in a hospital and he breaks down, it is very clearly like, yeah, this. No wonder. This is the scene that Shannon has stuck to nearly two decades later. Because it's like, that's the scene where after, you know, this is a 90 minutes film. And ultimately, like, we're like an hour or so in when this scene happens. And arguably when this scene happens, it's probably the big emotional moment in this film is like having the, you know, the. The head of the. This side of the Hayes family just breaking down because of, you know, the consequences of this feud. [00:18:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:21] Speaker A: The rest. I mean, the rest of the cast is also really good. The rest of the cast is mainly first timers or at least, you know, maybe probably locals. Yeah, we're shooting and doing a really good job. One of the guys is one of the known no name actors, plays a character named Shampoo Douglas, which is by far one of the best character side names I've ever heard. And it has stuck with me since I saw the film. And I remember when he said it again, I think I rewound it so I could hear it. [00:18:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:48] Speaker A: Be like, did he just fucking call himself Shampoo Douglas? Phenomenal name. But this is a film where it's like you would think, you know, in terms of just how much Shannon is working on if it wasn't for the fact that you can tell that this is a low budget film using every cent to basically convey the, you know, the tenacity, the emotions, the, you know, the intensity that comes from a store. Like in a feud like this, you would almost think in another world it's a vanity project because it's like Shannon's holding it down. It really is like everyone else is doing a really good to great job, but then Shannon shows up and it's like, fuck, yeah, this man deserves more leading roles. And, yeah, I mean, with shotgun stories, I feel like that's a. That's kind of a good template for how, you know, Shannon and Nichols will keep improving their career as it goes on relationship wise. [00:19:43] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it also kind of sets up sort of the aesthetic foundation of, like, Jeff Nichols as a filmmaker. He's very interested in the kind of not entirely rural America, but sort of the. That sort of lower class south kind of social class and that sort of thing. [00:20:08] Speaker A: Very mark Twainy like, I think the John Steinbeck Mark Twain kind of like influences can be kind of felt. I. Yeah, and, and honestly, as somebody who has loved everything he's read of twain, like, I get it. And I think, like, with Nichols, you could definitely tell that, like, the man likes playing in the dirt, especially with his films. [00:20:28] Speaker B: And, yeah, there's a gritty. Gritty, like, literal grittiness to them. And. Yeah, this is just such a. Like you said, it's not an amazing movie. I agree. It's like a seven out of ten. [00:20:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:40] Speaker B: But it's a. It's an incredibly admirable seven out of ten. Yeah, absolutely. It's kind of like a workhorse of a film. It feels very. I mean, it was very low budget, very economically reduced. I mean, they shot the thing in 21 days. [00:20:55] Speaker A: 21 days. And I think what Nichols has said is they scrounged up close to a quarter of a million dollars. [00:21:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:21:03] Speaker A: So, again, that's more than you would expect from seeing the film. But at the same time, considering how probably difficult it was in a lot of ways. [00:21:10] Speaker B: Well, and they were extremely, like, limited on ondem crew, too. So, like, when you don't have the manpower, you have to really shoot around. Like, I mean, the whole movie is basically set outdoors during daylight. [00:21:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:22] Speaker B: It's like, okay, good. We don't have to light anything. [00:21:24] Speaker A: Yes. And, yeah, and it's just like, really. [00:21:28] Speaker B: Yeah, it's an impressively kind of humble. [00:21:32] Speaker A: Film, very naturalistic cinematography, lighting wise, and just kind of, like, you know, design wise, because it has to be. [00:21:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:41] Speaker A: And it works in its favor. [00:21:42] Speaker B: And that, I think, ends up, even though Nichols goes on to make much bigger productions. [00:21:47] Speaker A: Yes. [00:21:48] Speaker B: Like, that. Really. That visual style and tone really carries over into his other work. [00:21:54] Speaker A: Mm hmm. [00:21:55] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:21:55] Speaker A: And, yeah, it's. It's hard not to, like, go into this because I think out of all of these three films, I hadn't seen either take shelter or shotgun stories when we decided to do this. But, like, shotgun stories was the one I was the most curious about because, like, one, when we started talking about doing this trilogy, shotgun stories was nowhere legally. Right, which is now, thankfully, I think Anami is now. Lo and behold, our original release date for this was just two days before it was gonna get re released on, like, right. Dvd and Blu ray. [00:22:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:29] Speaker A: But now you can watch it. I think you can watch it streaming now as well. And I would write. We would both recommend it again. Yeah, it's a seven out of ten, but it's a seven out of ten I would highly recommend, especially if you have seen other Jeff Nichols films and you're curious as to where he started. Because you can watch this and be like, well, shit, this is. This is one hell of a film to start off your career with. [00:22:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:49] Speaker A: And going off from that, I mean, from 2007 to 2011, I believe we're still in the point of Nicholas's career where we don't get to his most popular film, which is mud, which is 2012. That's a year after our next film. But this film, I think, is the one that, honestly, even though I hadn't. I didn't watch Nichols film. I didn't see a Jeff Nichols film until midnight special. This is probably the first film I had heard about Jeff Nichols and was like, this is somebody I should probably start watching. And that's our second film in our trilogy, 20 eleven's take shelter. A and I mean this in the nice. I mean this in the best way possible. Cause I want everyone to know that what we're about to talk about is probably my favorite film of the three. I initially gave this film an eight and a half out of ten. And now in between, when I saw this and now recording, I've now bumped it to a nine. Cause it hasn't left my mind since I saw it. It is the film that, like, you know, now looking back, this is kind of the film where I wish Shannon got more love for this performance, which we will talk about more about. [00:23:58] Speaker B: But I will say, I easily see this being like, a watershed moment in his career. [00:24:02] Speaker A: But I will say, with all that said, with how much I love this film, take shelter is a very, very uncomfortable film. It is a film that is dealing with, you would think, supernatural, maybe Sci-Fi ish elements, but ultimately, it is a backdrop for a story about a man dealing with the possibility that he has a mental illness. [00:24:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:30] Speaker A: And that alone is, you think, oh, I can see that being enough for a story. And it would be if it wasn't for the fact that Jeff Nichols goes hard in terms of discussing, not only is this man dealing with trying to figure out if this mental illness, if he has a mental illness, very similar in his family history, because the story is basically a working class man starts having visions of a apocalyptic storm coming through. And initially, you think the film is going to be about him making a shelter and people thinking is crazy, but he knows 100% in his mind that he is right. That is not the case. What is really the case about the film is that for the film, the majority about it is him questioning if these hallucinations are real or not. Because in his family history, this coincides with a type of schizophrenia that his mother had. [00:25:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:26] Speaker A: And so I think it's paranoid schizophrenia. [00:25:29] Speaker B: It is, yeah. [00:25:29] Speaker A: And so we are watching a man who is the breadwinner in the family. He is making. He is making the money that is basically, you know, funding the house, basically helping with his daughter's disability because she is deaf. [00:25:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:42] Speaker A: Early. She's like four or five years old, I think. And so this is a man who is like, you know, is basically told out loud by his best friend in this film, played by Shea Wiggum. Is that, like, you have, like, the perfect life? Yeah, basically you have, like, the life that anyone would ask for. Basically being told your life is perfect. Having one of the biggest bombs dropped on you. And watching this man try to figure out how to even comprehend that aspect while also dealing with hallucinations that he deals with almost on a nightly basis. [00:26:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It becomes kind of this cycle of, like, during the day, I'm gonna hide my research of this from my wife, and then at night I get haunted by visions. And so I go out and try and mess with this storm shelter I'm making. [00:26:33] Speaker A: This is. I mean, this is a film where I could genuinely see. Yeah. Not only is it making people uncomfortable, it could also horrify you a little bit. Just in fact, of like, watching him be a bit of a hop, hypercon hypochondriac about, you know, going super deep into what he thinks his disease is and trying to figure out what this is. Also just like, if you don't like the look of like, a hospital or like a government kind of like, white wall, white ceiling kind of setting, this. This definitely has a lot of those scenes that may be uncomfortable. Just very sterile. A sterile environment, which is like, you know, in most situations when it comes to a hospital, like, again, in shotgun stories, the hospitals aren't. They even have. I think if. When I think of the shotgun stories, kind of like hospital scene or hospital scenes, it's like a tinge of yellow. Almost adds to the kind of like, small town kind of small hospital vibe. But it's like, it's a good place. It's supposed to be a place where, you know, of course, you get to get fixed and you get to get healed and whatnot, while as it takes shelter, there is a sterile uncomfortability, like, lack of humanity in the design of those scenes where it's like you're trying to get help, but at the same time it feels like you're wasting. It's so fascinating how this film really is in the first 30 minutes you're like, okay, I could probably see where the film is going. I'm very curious how it continues doing this for 90 minutes and then an hour hits and then 90 minutes hit, and then it gets towards the end of the two hour runtime, and I'm like, jesus. This film just keeps going deeper and deeper into this hole to a point where it's, like, genuinely uncomfortable for a good reason. It is trying to bring light the idea of, like, the difficulties of not only dealing with either having a mental illness or trying to discover health problems in general, but also, you know, your loved ones. [00:28:33] Speaker B: Involved when you. When you have or. [00:28:36] Speaker A: Yeah, again, another aspect of this, because unlike shotgun stories, where I think, like, you know, shotgun stories, there's an ensemble there that is, like, really, really good and definitely lifts up SHannon in a way that is, like, they're all really good, but Shannon is key to the story. Shannon is key to take shelter. But I really think what accents him, even just as well, is how fucking good Jessica Chastain is as his wife. Like, the fact that she got nominated for an Oscar the year this would have gotten nominated, but instead got nominated for the help. [00:29:11] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:29:12] Speaker A: Which she's good in. I think she's good in that. But compared to take shelter, it is kind of like, it's probably one of my favorite Chastain performances. She is terrified for most of the film because it's like, if her husband is keeping things from her that she is realizing, like, you're clearly keeping something for me and you're not telling me, and then coming home to find, like, a hole in her backyard, like, their family dog, who's an inside dog, being forced to live outside because he had a, you know, a visceral hallucination. Like, it's. [00:29:45] Speaker B: Yeah, it's just so much. Yeah, I mean, she's definitely terrified the whole film. She's also, like, even in the scenes where she's most scared, it, like, really struck me how, like, I guess, how strong she was. [00:30:01] Speaker A: Yes. [00:30:01] Speaker B: In the film, because she's very. Shannon's character is somebody who does not really talk about himself. [00:30:09] Speaker A: No, no, no. [00:30:10] Speaker B: He's, you know, he's a working man. He's a blue collar worker. I think he does. Is it core drilling or something like that? Yeah, he's part of a cordental and. Yeah, he just goes. Works long days, comes home, works on a home improvement project and goes to bed. And he kind of dismisses any other concerns other than, like, is his family okay? And so when. When, you know, he starts to get kind of panicked and paranoid and going into these little, little research projects on his own and not telling his wife, and she starts finding out about it. The way that she faces him is really cool and, like, forces him to express things. And obviously part of that's the script. But Chastain just really, really nails that element of, like, I am scared and because of that, I'm going to face you and do something about it and force you to help me make this better. [00:31:09] Speaker A: Yeah. It's like I'm not only. It's also, like, on top of that to, you know, add on. And it's just not only am I scared, I'm also mad at you because. [00:31:19] Speaker B: You are hiding, being selfish. Yeah. [00:31:21] Speaker A: Yeah. Because again, it's like, it's one of those films, too, where it's like Shannon is ashamed of the possibility that he could have a mental illness. As if he can control that. [00:31:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:31:32] Speaker A: And so for a good chunk of the film, at least for the first half or so, he tries to hide it. [00:31:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:37] Speaker A: And then when it becomes more apparent that there's more going on than just, you know, like maybe little things here and there or stress that Chastain maybe thinks is from work, once she realizes that there's more to it, she genuinely, and I think in a good way, gets mad because it's like, again, we're married together. Like, right. [00:31:57] Speaker B: Until death part of this deal. [00:31:59] Speaker A: Yeah. You think, I don't want to help. And it's. It is just fascinating. Again, there, there are inklings in shotgun stories where it's no surprise that he ends up making something like take shelter. But I didn't expect to go into take shelter and be like, oh, this movie is like, if you take every, if you take the hospital scene from shotgun stories, which is Shannon's best moment performance wise in that film, and you just sprinkle it all through the entire two hour performance where it's just Shannon doing the best he can, doing his best, internalized, you know, just like micro, you know, mannerisms on his face, just like slowly losing his mind without saying a single word to anybody. [00:32:46] Speaker B: Yeah, he is. [00:32:48] Speaker A: This is probably my favorite Shannon performance. [00:32:50] Speaker B: Ah, yeah, I think that's where I'm at because, yeah, he really, he still has a lot of that from shotgun stories, that stoicism, that kind of rugged. Yeah. Understated micro expression stuff. But then, of course, you know, he's discovering he might have a mental illness and he's having hallucinations and nightmares. And in those moments, he becomes, you know, this incredibly expressive scared, frightened little person. And so you kind of get to see all of it from him and kind of. I love the moments where he's kind of. He has those experiences and he's terrified as anybody would be. And then he kind of, like, puts the facade back on, is like, all right, time to go back to work, get this taken care of, and pretend nothing happened. [00:33:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think, again, another aspect to it as well that, like, I just was so shocked that the film even talks about it, but it makes a lot of sense is the fact that this is a film. There is one line in the film where at that point, it's already been pretty apparent, this kind of aspect of the film. But there's a moment where Curtis's older brother, who I've. The actor escapes me, but he's been like, Ford v. Ferrari. I think he might have been in another Jeff Nichols film since this. But basically this actor, like, looks at his younger brother Michael Shannon, and goes, really? You're gonna build this shelter in this economy? [00:34:18] Speaker B: Right. [00:34:18] Speaker A: Which is a joke that has been. It's not. It's like. [00:34:21] Speaker B: It's a meme now. [00:34:21] Speaker A: It's a meme now. But to think that, like, yeah, this is, like, barely a year or two after the housing bubble is probably when they shot this. [00:34:29] Speaker B: Right? [00:34:30] Speaker A: So to think that not only is this man worried about how is he going to provide for his family, how is he even going to try to provide for himself when he has no time in a normal schedule, but also, how the hell is he going to justify building a shelter due to hallucinations after the fucking housing crisis, probably in universe, hurt a lot of the people that he knew and a lot of the communities that he's aware of, and, like, it just adds another element of, like, commentary to it where it's just like, not only is it already difficult to get people, you know, the working class to, you know, feel like taking care of themselves is not a burden. Especially also how the hospitals are not inherently scary, but they can be for some people. [00:35:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:15] Speaker A: You get the financial aspect and the most relevant financial aspect of that on top of that where it's like, holy shit. Yeah, this movie doesn't have to discuss that at all. [00:35:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:26] Speaker A: Like, again, it's. If it was just a Noah esque story and it was that, like, straightforward, you could still probably get a good movie out of it by itself. But the fact that Nichols just keeps digging and digging with his characters and the narrative and the thematic elements and also with the hallucinations, because the hallucinations are, you know, has. They have CGI in them at times. And this still is a pretty low budget film at the moment. In those dream sequences are visceral enough that it's hard not to be like, I get why this man is not okay with this or that. Or it's like having. It's like Jeff Nichols being like, hey, have you ever had a dream that has just felt so real that when you woke up, you just couldn't shake it off? What if you had a late that just had that every night? [00:36:21] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:36:22] Speaker A: And it's like, that is horrifying. I would never want to be this man. And that's just, again, one aspect of this movie where it's like, you know, you add the other aspects of the fact, like, they have friends, they have extended family who are just seen from the outside. Like, he is just becoming more distant and cold and is being mean to his family without understanding that. Like, they are going through so much internally that, like, it's really hard to discuss in a conversation because it's also constantly changing. And so it leads to just some phenomenal moments where it's like, there are moments in this film where my heart sinks and there's really nothing happening. Like, big bombastic wise. There is a big bombastic scene in this movie. [00:37:07] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:37:08] Speaker A: Emotionally, which I would argue is probably if. I don't know, if Shannon got even nominated for the oscars for this. [00:37:14] Speaker B: I don't think so. [00:37:14] Speaker A: But if he did, that scene would probably be used on the real. Yeah. And, my God, it is just a film that arguably, there's one. S. Honestly, in my head, there's one aspect of the film that I can understand if people do not like it. And I was actually curious to hear your thoughts on it because I don't even think I know it's the ending. [00:37:38] Speaker B: Yeah, the ending really seems to divide people. [00:37:42] Speaker A: Yes. [00:37:43] Speaker B: I'll, you know, I'll just say, you know, so there's no tension in the room. I really enjoyed the ending. I really enjoyed the film overall. [00:37:51] Speaker A: There would have been no tension if you not liked it. [00:37:53] Speaker B: Honest to God, I would have been. [00:37:54] Speaker A: Like, all right, let's talk about this. [00:37:55] Speaker B: Not trying to sound like I'm walking on eggshells or anything. [00:37:57] Speaker A: No. Yeah. [00:37:59] Speaker B: But, yeah, I will say when I watched this movie, credits rolled, or the, you know, final scene happens, credits rolled. I sat there on the couch for 15 minutes just thinking, like, is that a good ending? Like, I went back and forth. I'm like, did I hate that? Was that stupid? Was that actually kind of awesome. [00:38:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:38:23] Speaker B: What's the. What am I. It's, you know, it's one of those endings that really makes you go back over the rest of the movie and think, what is my read on this? Like, what do I take away from it? And, and, you know, the, the, the. My favorite read of the movie meant a really great read of the. Of the ending. And so I'm really happy that it ended that way. And I also understand why people don't like it because I think it. I think it really depends on your interpretation of what's happening throughout the movie. [00:38:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:38:56] Speaker B: How you receive the ending. Because, like, my knee jerk to the ending was like, oh, you just cheapened everything. [00:39:03] Speaker A: Yes. That's a big. The main argument for that ending, against that ending, which makes sense, is the fact that, like, the film itself is clearly symbolic and is discussing the idea of the importance of mental illness, discussing it with the people that you love, being kind to yourself, trusting the people you love, trusting them, support you being kind to yourself, and arguably just realizing that just because you have this illness, that doesn't make you broken to the point where you can't be fixed or that you can't go on with your life. [00:39:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:39:38] Speaker A: And in my head, yes, I could understand, you know, devil's advocate wise, I could understand why people don't like the ending because you would think it almost implies that this whole journey was for nothing. [00:39:50] Speaker B: And in my mind, well, it suggests, at least on a cursory read, it suggests that maybe all of the mental illness angle of this movie is kind of irrelevant. [00:40:06] Speaker A: It could. [00:40:07] Speaker B: It could see that depending on how you interpret the ending. [00:40:10] Speaker A: Yeah. But in my head, I think what I loved about the ending the most is that the ending, in my mind, is not the emotional climax. [00:40:19] Speaker B: Yeah, sure. [00:40:19] Speaker A: The emotional climax, and I think, which really makes the film by itself just a satisfying experience, is, of course, convincing Curtis to leave the bunker. Yes, very. [00:40:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:32] Speaker A: Because in my head. [00:40:33] Speaker B: Three of them in the bunker. Yeah. [00:40:35] Speaker A: Because in my head, it doesn't matter if the last five or six minutes is actually proving him right on the hallucinations or if it's something else completely differently. [00:40:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:45] Speaker A: It's the fact that he is able to take this olive branch from his wife and his daughter, who love him, to admit that there might be something wrong with him. And that's okay because it's not the end of the world. And that's enough for me. [00:41:00] Speaker B: And the ending to me is basically just a button on it. It's a statement on where this family is now. [00:41:11] Speaker A: Yes. [00:41:11] Speaker B: And what they've been through together and now they're ready to face. [00:41:16] Speaker A: And I would even. Yeah. And I would even argue just even accent more and, like, you know, accentuate more just how fucking good Shannon is in this film is that in that scene in the bunker is like the most, like, genuinely the most vulnerable he has ever gotten in the movie. [00:41:33] Speaker B: Yeah. He's that. He's almost childlike. [00:41:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:41:36] Speaker B: In the bunker scene. [00:41:36] Speaker A: And to go from that to the final scene where the last line he has to his wife is like, it's gonna be okay. Kind of like that. Just how calm, how collected and seemingly, how almost determined he is when he says that. Where he sees that storm and he feels like he can still take on that storm, I think shows implies that the development that he's had as a character, even though the storm is real, is not for naught. Like, he has definitely become a stronger man because he can admit to himself that he is flawed, he might have issues. Because, again, I also love. [00:42:15] Speaker B: He can rely on his wife and she can rely on him because again. [00:42:19] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like the fact. That's also the fact that stronger. His wife is freaking the fuck out because he realized. She realizes another aspect, which I can kind of get with the ending if people are kind of iffy on it. Not only is he seen the storm, his daughter, it seemed like their daughter implies that she had been kind of seen that. But I also think that it's like there are elements. There have been films that have endings kind of like this, where you can be like, yeah, they talk about it later. Yeah. That was not the original attempt on this end. Nichols, I don't think, has ever really been. [00:42:53] Speaker B: I don't think so. [00:42:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think that makes. It makes sense because I think in terms of, you know, as. Because I think in Jeff Nichols is in, like, in his head, if. You know, if I can assume, of course. But it feels like, you know, like the confidence in shotgun stories. I feel like his confidence in the take shelter script of being, like, whether the storm is real or not at the very end. [00:43:14] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:15] Speaker A: Does not matter. It is literally how the bunker scene goes is enough of a thematic emotional, satisfying, like, you know, just conclusion that whatever happens after that. [00:43:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:27] Speaker A: You know, take it as you will, but it doesn't take away from the film. And that's kind of where I'm at. But I'm glad you feel kind of the same way as well, to a degree, in terms of just liking the ending. Because, again, I understand because, like, my. My knee jerk reaction when I saw the ending to take shelter was like, oh, well, I wasn't expecting that. I like that, but I bet not everyone else does. And then I looked it up and I saw people talking about the film, and then I saw. [00:43:55] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, the amount of posts, a lot of people who. Yeah, the ending breaks the whole movie for him. Yeah. [00:44:00] Speaker A: And I could understand that to a degree. But I will also say that I love this movie, and of the three here, this is the one I highly recommend the most and I think is the best. [00:44:13] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I think it's one of, if not the best showcase of both Nichols and Shannon's talents. [00:44:20] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. As well as Jessica Chastain's. [00:44:23] Speaker B: Oh, for sure. [00:44:24] Speaker A: As well as the take shelter is also a film that basically tells the audience, hey, you know who is basically built in a lab for a Jeff Nichols film? Shea Wiggum on top of Michael Shannon. [00:44:36] Speaker B: What a living, breathing Jeff Nichols character. [00:44:39] Speaker A: And also surprise appearance by, I believe, Robert Longstreet, who is a big Mike Flanagan guy. He's in a haunted hill house. [00:44:47] Speaker B: He plays the drunk in midnight mass. [00:44:50] Speaker A: Yes. He's Michael Shannon's boss, and I threw me for a loop to see him. And he's honestly also perfect for a Nicholas film. [00:44:56] Speaker B: I love that guy. [00:44:57] Speaker A: He's great. [00:44:58] Speaker B: He pops up in anything. [00:44:58] Speaker A: I love that man's voice. The man should just do animation. [00:45:01] Speaker B: Yeah, he should do voice acting, for sure. [00:45:03] Speaker A: He screams like a japanese anime dub. Just like an old man or just like a creature. He could do that well. [00:45:10] Speaker B: Or some grizzled detective character. [00:45:12] Speaker A: Yeah. But, yeah. Take shelter is a phenomenal film, and I think good for Nichols, that in the span of a year has this film, which I think really shows a lot of people how damn good he is. And then the next year has mud, which basically becomes, I think, an indie darling, a critical darling to a degree. [00:45:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:35] Speaker A: And even makes him even more popular. [00:45:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:45:38] Speaker A: And I will also say I probably will watch that in the future. That's the only Jeff Nichols film I have yet to see. [00:45:44] Speaker B: Yeah. I wanted to watch it just as along with these movies, and I didn't get around to it. [00:45:50] Speaker A: No, we had to watch. We had to watch all the costner. [00:45:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:45:54] Speaker A: Yeah. We had to watch three hour films. [00:45:57] Speaker B: Too much to do, eggs to lay and worms to scratch, which feels like a Jeff Nichols saying now. [00:46:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:46:05] Speaker B: Or a saying by a character in Jeff Nichols movie. But mud kind of. At least my perception of mud without having seen it is that it kind of, like, spurred this little mini era of, like, half indie thriller dramas, like. [00:46:19] Speaker A: Crime dramas in the south kind of. [00:46:22] Speaker B: Yeah, rural America. Like, there was that Nicolas Cage movie. Joe. [00:46:27] Speaker A: Joe. Yeah. [00:46:28] Speaker B: Was that. That wasn't David Gordon Green, was it? [00:46:31] Speaker A: Maybe it could have been. I don't know. I have seen Joe, though. [00:46:34] Speaker B: I've seen Joe, but that felt like a movie that came out, like, in the wake of mud. [00:46:39] Speaker A: Could. Would cop car also be kind of John Watts? Yeah. [00:46:43] Speaker B: Like, there was, like, this era of the 2010s where a lot of, you know, particularly male filmmakers were making movies a lot like mud and that. And I can't speak any deeper to that because I haven't seen mud. [00:46:55] Speaker A: But, like, that's my perception aesthetically wise. I agree. It's also. I think television also has done that a lot. There's a lot of. Yeah, a lot of bayou deep south shows that have been out in the last decade or so. And hell, this kind of vibe that mud has even goes into less thriller types. But still, dramas like something like Peanut butter Falcon. Like a few. Like, late 2010s. Like, it is. [00:47:18] Speaker B: It is fascinating to go, like, yeah, storybook poverty America. [00:47:24] Speaker A: Like, yeah, pretty much. But in a way that doesn't feel like it's someone talking down. [00:47:30] Speaker B: No, the audience just set in that environment again. [00:47:33] Speaker A: Jeff Nichols is a good old boy from Little Rock. [00:47:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:47:36] Speaker A: Like, it's very much like I. Watching both shotgun stories and take shelter and fuck pretty much any of his films that all the other films I have seen of his. Anytime there's a small town, there is a. There's a, you know, a love and nostalgia to it, but not to the point where it sugarcoats that era that it's either shot in or the location where it's like, in shotgun stories, there is a feeling of, like, you know, hanging out with the boys on a stoop and just sitting there drinking is nice, but it's still a shitty little town. And so it's like, you know, it's good to like how Nichols has such a maturity to his direction and his writing that it, arguably, you would think in your head, well, what if, you know, hypothetically, could it work if he went into a different genre, maybe go more full tilt into something else, say, I don't know, a SCI-Fi road trip action adventure film? [00:48:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:48:37] Speaker A: If you are thinking that you are very psychic because you're one hell of a. [00:48:41] Speaker B: Quite perceptive. [00:48:42] Speaker A: Yeah, very perceptive. [00:48:44] Speaker B: Hey, all of our listeners are smart. Yeah, we have smart listeners on. [00:48:47] Speaker A: Absolutely. And they have all been nice to me when it talks about the Jeff Mike Nicholson scenario. No one has ever been mean to me about that. You know what? I get it. But, yeah, I am, in course, talking about the final film in our trilogy, the. It's not the last time Shannon has been a prominent part in a Nicholson, but he lead, last lead in a feature length. Yes. And in a Nichols feature. [00:49:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:14] Speaker A: And that is 20. Sixteen's midnight special. Aethereze. Fascinating film, because just from its cast alone, you've got Michael Shannon, Joel Etcherton, Kirsten Dunst, Jaden Martell, who many would know post this film. I think a year or two after this film, he plays the lead in it, chapter one. [00:49:37] Speaker B: Oh, right, right. [00:49:37] Speaker A: And those parts in chapter two. He also plays Michael Shannon's son in knives out. [00:49:43] Speaker B: And he's also the nazi child masturbating in the bathroom. [00:49:46] Speaker A: Yes, he is. No more context needed. He's also just been in a bunch of stuff recently. [00:49:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:53] Speaker A: But at this point, I think this is one of his very first bigger films. [00:49:57] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:49:58] Speaker A: Kirsten Dunst, as well as Sam Shepard. Sam Shepard, Bill Camp, who's another character actor who anytime I see that man, I go, good for you. And then, of course, the most surprising, because this is like a year after Force Awakens. [00:50:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:13] Speaker A: Adam Driver. [00:50:14] Speaker B: Yeah. This. [00:50:15] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a fascinating group of people. [00:50:18] Speaker B: Especially funny to watch movies. Watch like pre Star Wars Adam Driver movie. I mean, obviously this came out right after, but it's. It's very much pre driver cast or pre Star wars casting for Driver. [00:50:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:50:31] Speaker B: Very much that kind of character he was playing before, and now he just plays entirely different characters. Absolutely good on him. [00:50:38] Speaker A: It's like, I mean, watching. Watching Adam driver performance with glasses, it's like, oh, my gosh, it's changed. We're not Ferrari. This is not Ferrari Driver. [00:50:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:47] Speaker A: But, yeah. Midnight special. The best way I've seen someone describe this, I believe I saw this on Reddit or maybe just a random review where I went, fuck. Now I'll never not be able to think of this as the perfect way to encapsulate Midnight special. Midnight special feels like an Amblin like, eighties era Spielberg film with more maturity and less homage than a JJ Abrams. [00:51:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:16] Speaker A: Like this, right in between, it's like the situation where it's like. [00:51:19] Speaker B: It's kind of a stripped down old Spielberg movie. [00:51:22] Speaker A: It's got like that. You had, like, et quality in terms of just like. [00:51:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:51:27] Speaker A: The whole aspect of basically Michael Shannon is a father trying to take care of his son, who has these, you know, wild crazy powers that a cult is trying to take advantage of. [00:51:39] Speaker B: It's basically bright burn. Yeah. Next. Oh, sorry, I just get episode. [00:51:47] Speaker A: I just. I just blue screened so hard right there. [00:51:50] Speaker B: You had to sit there and process what bright burn was. [00:51:53] Speaker A: I think if I. If I hadn't just made full blown eye contact with you when you said Brightbourne, Brightburn with such sincerity, I would have been fine. Yeah, it's okay. Brightburn two is gonna be written by an AI. [00:52:03] Speaker B: It's fine. [00:52:05] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it just has the energy of, like, watching midnight special for the first time back in, like, probably 2017. 2018. I probably watched this a year or two after it came out. I was just floored by how, again, this film has a confidence out the gate. We basically kind of feel like we're starting in media res of a narrative. [00:52:26] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, it is. Things are already flying off the handle by the time we join. [00:52:31] Speaker A: It's one of the rare occasions where a film is basically talking like, we don't see it. And I think a lot of that is because of its budget. But, like, you also don't, like, they basically are talking about, like, yeah, we just did this two or three days ago. This is how I got roped into this situation. And, like, usually in a film when you see that, nine times out of ten, your brain goes, why the fuck aren't we just seeing that? But with midnight special, considering how fast they're moving, considering how intense the situation is a lot of the times, and also, just, like, the context clues, like, the world building a midnight special just shows that. Mike Nichols. [00:53:10] Speaker B: Fuck. [00:53:10] Speaker A: I did it again. Damn it. Jeff Nichols. God. It has nothing to do with their filmographies either. It's just rolling off the tongue. [00:53:17] Speaker B: Michael Shannon. Jeff Nichols. [00:53:18] Speaker A: Jeff Shannon. Michael and Shannon. [00:53:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:53:21] Speaker A: Joel Edgerton. Jeff Edgerton. You know, you just. [00:53:24] Speaker B: Mike Edgerton. Even Mike. [00:53:27] Speaker A: Or his. Or his actual brother, Nash Edgerton. Yeah. But it just. Jeff Nichols could just handle world building so well, I think in an actual, like, big franchise, if he wanted to, which he almost did a little bit. [00:53:43] Speaker B: Yeah. What was he gonna. Oh, yeah, he was gonna do a. [00:53:45] Speaker A: Quiet place day one, which is understandable that he probably just left because of creative differences. [00:53:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. But, like, with mine, felt a little hamstrung. [00:53:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I think the best stuff in midnight special, at least in my opinion, and I would love it if it was the opposite for you. [00:54:00] Speaker B: But, like, I hated it. [00:54:02] Speaker A: No, no, but, like, the beginning, like, literally the first 30 minutes, is where I'm like, I am locked in 30. 30 to 45 minutes. I am like, when Joel Edgerton turns off his lights, it puts on the fucking night vision goggles. [00:54:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:17] Speaker A: No one can see them while they're driving the night. That is. That is an energy that, like, that the film holds on to for a decent amount of time. [00:54:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And. Well, and just the kind of gradual unfolding of who Joel Edgerton is. [00:54:30] Speaker A: Yes. Is really cool, especially. And also Shannon because. [00:54:33] Speaker B: And Shannon because you don't know what's going on at the beginning of that. [00:54:36] Speaker A: Movie because I did kind of spoil a little bit. The whole dad revealed. [00:54:39] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:54:39] Speaker A: You don't know, but you can kind of tell. [00:54:43] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, there's a. It's either. Yeah. I. I mean, there's clearly this sort of, like, longing, protectiveness coming from Shannon at the beginning, but, like, you can't really tell, you know, does he feel like he owes this kid something? Does he, you know, did he do something? And the kid is a symbol for something and. Yeah, turns out he's his father. [00:55:02] Speaker A: Yeah. Because basically the film opens up in a shitty hotel with Jaden Martell wearing swim. Swim goggles, blue swim goggles, which he. [00:55:12] Speaker B: Has on, like, most of the movie. [00:55:13] Speaker A: And, like, air control headset, like, headphones under a blanket. [00:55:19] Speaker B: Yep. [00:55:19] Speaker A: And they go, you ready? Of course. And they start leaving at night. And then you see on the tv that, oh, my gosh, this child has been kidnapped. And, of course, it's like, who could have done it? And then they just put Michael Shannon's face plastered everywhere. And then, like, that's. And then when it starts, like, once it gets to the night vision scene, it just automatically just puts midnight special on the screen. And I'm like, you confident son of a bitch. I'm. I'm game. I'm in. Let's go. And then from that point forward, I think for the majority of it, it keeps that momentum. It, well, falters here and there, but I think by the time it gets to the end, I going now kind of going full circle, going from, like, this is the first Jeff Nichols film I've ever seen to now being like, I have now seen all. Nearly all of his films, and now I'm going back to the one that kind of got me into him. It is fascinating to go back to midnight special and be like, I see the flaws in this compared to the other great Jeff Nichols stuff, as well as seeing inklings of how his style could work in a more Sci-Fi bigger budget, Sci-Fi kind of action adventure road trip scenario, as well as bigger narratives where it's in shotgun stories. It's a very grounded family feud between two families and take shelter. The hallucinations are the weirdest part of that film. The rest of it's pretty grounded. Then you get to midnight special, where it also has a groundness to it, but it still also has. It's grounded, but it also has a cult government belief that there might be some special prophecy that's coming through this parallel dimension stuff. Yeah, it is very bold, again, for its first film to do that. [00:57:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:57:05] Speaker A: Especially after being like, probably a bunch of people were probably like, oh, my God, the mud guy's doing this next. [00:57:10] Speaker B: Get Jeff Nichols on the phone. [00:57:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I want him to do mud, too. And they do midnight special, and they go, fuck. [00:57:16] Speaker B: That's not what we wanted mud to clay boogaloo. [00:57:21] Speaker A: But I mean, it just. Again, did you say this was your first one as well, when you initially. [00:57:27] Speaker B: I had never seen this. [00:57:28] Speaker A: You had never seen this? [00:57:29] Speaker B: No, I remember. I actually think I remember you raving about it at the time, probably. [00:57:34] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:57:35] Speaker B: I remember kind of hearing about it, like, oh, that seems cool. I remember also confusing it. I would confuse it with the JJ Abrams movie super eight. I don't know why. I've never seen that movie either. [00:57:48] Speaker A: I know. I know why. [00:57:49] Speaker B: Okay. Michael Shannon in that. [00:57:52] Speaker A: No, I think it's just visually, there are some. It's not as lens flarey as super eight, but again, no, but again, I think that is the Amblin aspect of it. Yeah, it's like. [00:58:02] Speaker B: It's this, like, kind of. It feels like a modern, stripped down version of a Spielberg. [00:58:07] Speaker A: Yeah. But the thing that's so funny is super eight, a film that, again, I also love. As of now, I haven't rewatched it in years. Probably kind of iffy on it a little bit now, but, like, that movie is basically JJ Abrams going, God, aren't Spielberg films awesome? Don't you remember that? [00:58:27] Speaker B: The ready player one a little bit. [00:58:29] Speaker A: Don't you remember, like, did you ever make home videos that just cause you loved et so much? I sure did. And there's nothing wrong with that. Again, the nostalgia in that film, I think, works incredibly well. And I think JJ. I think super eight probably still is my favorite. It's either that or mission impossible, three of JJ's films. But, like, on the flip side, though, is you have Nichols, who feels like that could have been the easiest way to do midnight special. It's being like, God, God, don't you love close encounters? Don't you love Et? But it really just feels like Nichols, at a point just goes like, I'm going to basically ground the. The feeling, the almost the tone of those types of films where it's like, you know, et, close encounters, there's these, you know, nostalgic feelings when you look back on old school emblem, but there is like a darkness there. [00:59:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:23] Speaker A: That is like a very grounded seriousness that is there that, like, you know, you don't really think about is there. Until you rewatch those films, you go, oh, fuck, that's a little more intense than I remember it. And it's like, nichols is almost like, I'm gonna take that. I'm gonna amp up the maturity, amp up the intensity a little bit. [00:59:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:59:40] Speaker A: And maybe amp up the weirdness a little bit. And I'm gonna keep. I'm just gonna go for it and do my own thing. Like. Like, I think JJ as a director, and that's. If we ever do an Abrams trilogy, I'd have to look in to see if that's what we would do with that. [00:59:54] Speaker B: Probably a ride lens flare trilogy. But, like, there's way too many. [00:59:59] Speaker A: Yeah, but I think with, like, abrams, it's like he is a good director and he wears his influence, influences on his sleeve. And I think a lot of people, it depends on who you ask, but a lot of people could say that that is a detriment to certain aspects of. [01:00:14] Speaker B: I think it can come as a detriment sometimes. [01:00:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And there's one film in particular that we both probably would say that is the case, and we won't say it because it involves a big Sci-Fi franchise that, you know, maybe won't talk about. [01:00:27] Speaker B: Yep. [01:00:28] Speaker A: It's Star Trek. That's definitely what I'm talking. No, but with Nichols, it is the case where it's like, with his films at this point, like, he is also in that same case where he's wearing his influences on his sleeve. But I think, again, that confidence doesn't make it a detriment because I feel like it's like those influences are there, but I'm not. I'm not pulling things straight up from a Steinbeck story or a twain story. It's more like the essence of a narrative or the essence of a story and then just kind of forming it into my own interpretation, my vision and execution of a story that, you know, Spielberg could have done in the eighties but didn't. And I think midnight special does that really well. And I think, you know, the times where it doesn't do that as well, I think, is where it depends. Mileage may vary in terms of where it's like, okay, this is less spielbergy and more nickels in this scene or this. [01:01:23] Speaker B: I think the. Maybe where this kind of falters or maybe it doesn't feel quite as tight or as confident as, say, take shelter, for example. I think in leaning in closer, like, leaning in harder into the Sci-Fi adventure element of it. [01:01:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:01:42] Speaker B: It loses some of the, like, emotional gravitas. Oh, no, take shelter. I never. I wanted a little bit more of the father son relationship since that's ultimately what it's all about. [01:01:54] Speaker A: Yeah, let's get into that, because I would. [01:01:56] Speaker B: Yeah, we can talk about that a little bit. [01:01:57] Speaker A: I would argue, even though I would consider this still better than shotgun stories, I think this is, in my opinion, I think midnight specials, maybe a seven and a half in the shotgun stories is seven. I would argue, though, in these three films, Shannon's performance is the weakest of the three films in this. [01:02:14] Speaker B: Yeah. I think it also demands the least of him. [01:02:17] Speaker A: Yes. Again, because I think a lot of it, too, is the benefit of both shotgun stories having, you know, a smaller, more unknown cast. And, like, the benefit of, like, take shelter having just a smaller cast is the fact that, like, you know, when Shannon is brought up more, it's. You really accents just how good of a director, how good of an actor he is and how he can hold scenes and hold, you know, the energy of the movie by himself if need be. [01:02:47] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:02:47] Speaker A: And then in Midnight special, I would argue, is, like, the biggest ensemble of these three films, the most jumping between locations of all three of these films. We are going long swaths without any Shannon at times. Like, it's. It's at a point where when you, like. I agree with you. I think the emotional aspect between him and his son. Well, I think both Michael and Jaden are really good in this movie. I do think the moments that should really make you break down crying like a film, like an Amblin style film, we do, doesn't necessarily hit as hard. [01:03:21] Speaker B: They don't get the time to, like, make those pay off, I guess, is how I would put it, is there's not quite enough detail put into the setup to make those moments, even though they are there, pay off as they should. [01:03:36] Speaker A: Yes. And again, it's also, I think, the aspect of the fact that, like, there, since it's still so inherently grounded in a way, because that's how Nichols has kind of held his career up until now. You know, if you just got off the ground, just a little bit more than the film does, maybe we were able to kind of accentuate more of the emotional aspects in terms of just like, the otherworldly as well as just high cal. This could be. This could be the last time you see your son. Because that's, like, an aspect of the film brings up a lot is the fact that, like, if your son is to be safe, that could also mean you may never see him again. How does that make you feel? And again, Shannon sells it the best he can with the amount of time he has and with the amount of. Yeah, no, the script gives him. And, you know, arguably, I think this is more. This is the most ensemble ii of all three of these films, and I think shows just how good the cast is because it's like when Shannon doesn't have a lot to really do to deliver, I think Edgerton delivers in those moments. And I think, I mean, Dunst is the same where it's. I think Kirsten Dunst, you know, we've been talking a lot about actors that we put in our back pocket, where it's like, if they're in this fucking them down. [01:04:48] Speaker B: You'd put Mike Dunst in your back pocket. [01:04:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I put Mike Dunst in my back pocket. Mike Egerton, Mike Dunst, Mike Martell. [01:04:54] Speaker B: And Jeff Shannon. [01:04:55] Speaker A: And Jeff Shannon. No, I think Kirsten Dunst, I think especially, just, like, again, she is not given a lot. She's given, I would argue, less than him then Michael, and I would even argue that, like, she's just as good in a subdued way. I think she really holds her own in this movie. And I think there's one scene in particular where there's, like, a genuine intensity. It's like the outside the hotel room scene. [01:05:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah. [01:05:23] Speaker A: That's. That's a really good scene where, like, that's where Michael. Like, where. That's where Shannon's going hard. That's when Dunst is doing really good. Like, that's where the. The emotions are at their peak and they're still 20 minutes in the film. [01:05:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:35] Speaker A: So when that scene actually, the finale of the film actually happens, and I really. I like the visual aspect of, like, the ending. The ending, yeah. And I like. Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. But it is kind of fascinating to think that this is a film where, you know, it is about the father son aspect, and while the mother son relationship is a part of it. Michael Shannon's our lead. [01:05:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [01:05:56] Speaker A: It is kind of fascinating to have the film end not with Michael Shannon's character Roy bringing his son to that point. The fact that it's his mother, I mean, is still impactful to a degree, but I think it would have hit harder. [01:06:10] Speaker B: Yeah. It feels like an odd sort of switch up. [01:06:13] Speaker A: Yes. [01:06:14] Speaker B: Because while, like, you're right, Kirsten Dunst is really good in this. It doesn't really feel like she's what it's about until kind of suddenly at the end. [01:06:23] Speaker A: No, no. Yeah. And there's also other aspects where it comes with, like, Adam Driver's character, I think is a lot of fun in the early parts of the film. And then, like, by the end, you're. [01:06:32] Speaker B: Like, why is he still here? [01:06:34] Speaker A: And you're like, oh, I'm glad you're okay. Yeah, that's fine. And it's also, like, the. The end of the film also, like. Because, again, with the maturity aspect, kind of like, where in my head, it's like. It's a more mature version of, like, an Amblin style film. It's like, it's not as silly or as kooky or as funny. [01:06:54] Speaker B: No, it's much more serious. [01:06:56] Speaker A: Until, like, the second half, where there's a little bit of moments where it's like, I can hear, like, in my brain, I'm like, this is the part where you think someone's gonna laugh in the theater. [01:07:03] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, you're talking about when Joel Edgerton shoots a cop. Right? Yeah. Okay. Just making sure we're on the same page. [01:07:10] Speaker A: But I will say that that scene again, you know, adding more to the fact that the first 30 to 45 minutes are fucking great. [01:07:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:18] Speaker A: Is that when that scene happens, it throws you the fuck off. [01:07:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:07:22] Speaker A: And then it also. When you find out later that Joel Edgerton is also a cop. Yeah. [01:07:25] Speaker B: That's a knee slapper right there. Yeah. [01:07:27] Speaker A: That also makes you go, holy shit. Like. Because, like, that whole interaction that he has post that shooting where it's like. It's like you shot him in the vest, and it's like, yeah. You didn't know that? You didn't know he had a vest on? Oh, it's like, no, he said he had a vest on. Shannon does, and then Edgerton knows. You didn't know that? [01:07:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:07:44] Speaker A: Like, there's, like, that energy that is, like, very intense. And that's the first half of the film. And then the second half of the film is Adam Driver being like, can you punch me? [01:07:53] Speaker B: Right. [01:07:53] Speaker A: So I'll maybe handcuff me to something. And it's like, Joel Edgerton's character is like, what the what are you talking about? And it's like, it's not. It's not not funny. It just feels a little off compared to what we want, especially when the finale really is just Roy, Michael Shannon's Roy and Joel Edgerston's character running away from the cops to give Kirsten Dunst enough time to get their son to the parallel that it ends kind of with them getting arrested. [01:08:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Right. [01:08:24] Speaker A: But there's, like, great ending shot in the prison. Uh, that kind of implies that. [01:08:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:08:30] Speaker A: Where the, like, again, almost very take shelter esque. Where implies there's more to this than just, like, a once in a lifetime. Maybe there's more to it than we could think, and it doesn't. And again, it doesn't feel like a sequel. Like, oh, midnight special two. Like, it didn't feel like that. It just feels like. [01:08:47] Speaker B: 01:00 a.m. special. [01:08:48] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the midnight special. Happy hour. One happy hour. [01:08:55] Speaker B: Closing time. Midnight special to closing time. [01:09:00] Speaker A: But, yeah, no, I think the one thing about watching midnight special again and just being like, I don't love it as much as when I first watched it, because I think what I first watched it, I probably would have given it, like, an eight and a half. [01:09:11] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:12] Speaker A: And then now it's a seven and a half. [01:09:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:14] Speaker A: But that doesn't make me not recommend it any less. Like, in all honesty, I think, like, the reason why it's lesser, you know, ranking wise for my Jeff Nichols films. Jeff Nichols, the director that I have totally. [01:09:26] Speaker B: Mike Nichols. Right. [01:09:28] Speaker A: Okay. [01:09:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:09:29] Speaker A: I should have known better that you were gonna do this, but it's the fact that, like, Jeff Nichols is such a goddamn good director, and he has used Michael Shannon so well throughout both of their careers that the fact that Midnight special is considered maybe one of their weaker films, I think, is a good telling of just how good the relationship is. [01:09:49] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. [01:09:50] Speaker A: And how much more, because, like, the same year that midnight special comes out, Loving, which also has Joel Entertainment, has Michael Shannon in a smaller role, but still is pretty phenomenal in it. Like, it just. It just shows that, like, at this point, if Jack Nichols does a film without Michael Shannon, I think he'll just shoot himself in the foot with most people where it's like, come on. No. Bring him back. [01:10:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:12] Speaker A: Why? No, please have. Have Michael there. I want him there. [01:10:15] Speaker B: Yeah. I like how this trilogy kind of winds up serving as. I don't know that this. I don't think this was Jeff Nichols intent or Mike Nichols. Yeah. I don't think this was his intent, because I haven't really heard him talk about it with any of these movies, but these three specifically with Shannon as a lead. It's almost like Nichols is kind of, you know, leveraging the multi talented nature of Michael Shannon to explore the different roles and relationship of men. Yeah. Cause you. I mean, it's kind of like you could make an argument. This is like a trilogy of masculinity. Like a trilogy of healthy masculinity. [01:10:58] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:10:59] Speaker B: Cause in the first movie, he's a son and a brother. His name's literally son. [01:11:02] Speaker A: His name is son. We should. Yeah, we should talk about their fulfilling. [01:11:05] Speaker B: The role of son and brother and kind of surrogate father, in a way. [01:11:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:11:09] Speaker B: And then in the second one, he obviously is a father, but his kind of primary relationship is as a husband in the film and his relationship with his wife. And then here it's all about fatherhood. And so I think it's kind of a cool way of looking at it that these two artists have had this consistent through line of examining male relationships or masculine roles in their movies. Whether or not that was intentional. [01:11:38] Speaker A: Well, I think it definitely is intentional, because, again, I think even to even add more to your fatherhood kind of connection, it's also the fact that midnight special is about the absence of a father, because it's like Roy was a part of the cult that his son was in, but his son was always pushed as the head of the cult's son. [01:11:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:58] Speaker A: Like, they basically took. Stole a son. Yeah. Stole the fatherhood from him. So a lot of the film, which, again, just accentuates just how there should be a little bit more in the script for both him and J. Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, the film is also him trying to basically reconnect with a son who is, like, on the verge of becoming a teenager. So there's a lot of, you know, aspects to it. [01:12:23] Speaker B: We should have puberty talk. [01:12:26] Speaker A: But again, just think of, like, Michael Shannon in that film, where it's just like he is very. He's very coarse. He is very matter of fact. And he talks about his son like he's. There are moments where he talks about his son like it's, you know, he's a father trying to keep his son alive, but other times he talks about a son like a prophet. [01:12:45] Speaker B: Right. [01:12:45] Speaker A: Like a bodyguard trying to protect, like a, you know, government figure. [01:12:49] Speaker B: I don't think he literally says, like, he's the key to all this, but there's lines like that. [01:12:53] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's also like, you know, the early on in the film, it's like Michael Shannon is just outright saying, like, listen, I don't want that cop to die, but his. My son's more important. And then Joel is just looking at him being like, you gotta be. You gotta fucking listen to what you just said. And you said that in front of your son, no less, who is still a child. [01:13:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:15] Speaker A: And so, yeah, I think. I think the fatherhood connection to all three is also a very strong part of it, and I think that's a good call. So Andy gets 20 odd trilogy points, 20 cinephile points, 20 kino points. Kino coins. You can. Where can we cash those out at? [01:13:35] Speaker B: Letterbox. [01:13:35] Speaker A: Letterbox. Any coffee shop that has David lynch merch. [01:13:40] Speaker B: The can cano coins. Shout out can can local cinema support local theaters? [01:13:49] Speaker A: It wasn't even the fact that you called it the kinky no coins. It's just how you, like, hit a brick wall. [01:13:55] Speaker B: I was like, work shopping it mid sentence. [01:13:57] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a great tight five. We're working on it. But, yeah, that is the Nicholls Shannon sampler. [01:14:08] Speaker B: I don't know if you have seen it, but there is one other Shannon lead directed by Nichols project. [01:14:16] Speaker A: Is it what I think it is? [01:14:17] Speaker B: 2018. Jeff Nichols directed an eight minute short film called long Way Back Home starring Michael Shannon, which I watched. It's on YouTube. [01:14:28] Speaker A: Okay. [01:14:28] Speaker B: And there's not a whole lot to it. It's Michael Shannon, dude, who comes into town. He clearly has a history with some people, and he's looking for some guys who screwed him over. [01:14:38] Speaker A: Okay. [01:14:39] Speaker B: And he looks around town, and that's a. There's a music that plays. I think the song. There's a song. Maybe it's partially a music video. There's a song called Long Way back home that plays in it and. Yeah. [01:14:51] Speaker A: Wait, Shannon doesn't sing. [01:14:52] Speaker B: Does Shannon doesn't sing. Oh, but you would have got coming out of him. [01:14:56] Speaker A: I'm already in. I'm already in watching that. But if he had started singing, I. [01:15:00] Speaker B: Mean, he broke out in song, I. [01:15:01] Speaker A: Would have stopped the episode right now, and I would have started. [01:15:03] Speaker B: It's actually a nickelback music video. I left that part out. [01:15:06] Speaker A: I literally thought, you're going to tell me that Jeff Nichols directed the sorority letter reenactment that Michael Shannon does for funny or die. And I was gonna be like, that is a wild connection. If that's true, that really shows how close of friends they would be. But, yeah, the Shannon Nichols or Nichols Shannon sampler is don't look at me. [01:15:30] Speaker B: Like that I was trying to remember. If you said it right. [01:15:33] Speaker A: I said it right the second time. The nickel shaden sampler is just, again, a wonderful look into both. Not only Jeff Nichols as a birch knee director who is still going strong to this day, but also Michael Shannon as a character actor who's been in the game for nearly 40 years now, I think, since his first role. And so, you know, highly recommend all three of these films, even though they're at varying different degrees and quality. I would recommend take shelter the most. But I'm saying, if you. If you saw, like, a trailer for the bike riders and you're like, this kind of is interesting to me, but, like, who is this Jeff Nichols guy? Like, these three films are a perfect way to get a, you know, acquainted with Nichols as an auteur as well as Shannon is just the best of his, you know, the work with him, basically. [01:16:23] Speaker B: And then if you want to do extra credit and tell your friends that you're better than the odd trilogies guys, then you can watch Muddy and have us beat, and we'll hand you the reins of the podcast. [01:16:34] Speaker A: You'll get. [01:16:35] Speaker B: It's yours now. [01:16:37] Speaker A: You'll get, what, at least five cancan cinnamon kino coins. [01:16:42] Speaker B: Can cano coins. KKK. Be careful. Remember, all four ks, all four k's are critical. [01:16:50] Speaker A: Watching that light bulb in your head for the coins. Fun. But, yeah. Thank you all for listening again. It's good to be back. [01:16:57] Speaker B: It is good to be back. We do have one more trilogy planned for July. [01:17:01] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:17:02] Speaker B: As we've discussed. [01:17:03] Speaker A: Yes. So on July 27, we have our next trilogy, which, in honor, not only do we have a new Nichols film that had just come out in honor of this trilogy, in honor of our next trilogy, we just, you know, we really wanted to discuss Kevin Costner not as an actor, but as a director, as an auteur that has basically gone from making one of the most popular films in the late eighties to the point where it won best picture at the oscars to making one of the most, one of the biggest flops in the nineties to an underrated kind of, you know, maybe a beloved classic in the western space in the early two thousands. [01:17:47] Speaker B: Costner is obviously very well known as an actor, but as a director, you know, even considering dances with wolves. Yeah, he's kind of gone overlooked as a director. And I think part of that's probably because he hasn't directed anything in 20 years. [01:18:02] Speaker A: Yes. [01:18:02] Speaker B: Until now. [01:18:03] Speaker A: Because in honor of him returning for what might be four three hour films, that is about an american saga. Horizon in american saga. We are talking about Kevin Costner, colon, director. We are discussing his first three directorial debuts, per se, because now that he's gonna do. He's basically gonna do more than half of that in the next, like, three to four years, probably. But we are discussing dances with Wolves, the Postman, and open range. Three very interesting films. At this point in our recording, Andy has seen all of them. I am still in the process of getting to watch open range, but I will say it will be nice to watch something that isn't the postman. Yeah, anything is better than watching the postman. Again, as a good hint at what the conversation is going to be. Plus, go for it. [01:19:00] Speaker B: Yes. Speaking of what the conversation is going to be, we will also be joined by a very special guest, editor, co founder, and writer over at Midwest Film Journal, Mister Nick Rogers. [01:19:14] Speaker A: Yes. [01:19:15] Speaker B: Also a member of the Indiana Film Journalists Association. Nick is a huge Costner head. I think he's seen. I don't want to say all definitively without his presence, but almost all of Costner's films, I would imagine he's watched. [01:19:31] Speaker A: Every single one of his readily available. There's a few films that I think. [01:19:36] Speaker B: I knew he had seen all of these before we approached him to join us for this. Yeah, Nick is very experienced with the cost man and is ready to bring the heat. [01:19:47] Speaker A: Oh, my God. Every one of his letterbox reviews about. [01:19:51] Speaker B: These three films have felt like he's mounting a case. [01:19:53] Speaker A: Like, yeah, he is trying to be defend like the defense attorney for us, which is honestly gonna be a lot of fun when we get to the postman. [01:20:03] Speaker B: Oh, shit. [01:20:03] Speaker A: I cannot wait to hear his takes on that. But, yeah, with Nick Rogers. Tune in on June. June. Good Lord. July 27 when we talk about Kevin Costner, director. But until then, I'm Logan Sowash. [01:20:18] Speaker B: And I'm Andy Carr. [01:20:19] Speaker A: Thank you so much for listening. Bye.